What are my Beliefs?

All right, welcome back to another episode of Revealed Apologetics. I'm your host Eli Ayala and today

Kind of doing something. Well Not super different, but usually I have a guest on to talk about some topic

Today, I'm basically just going to be talking about myself I hope whoever's listening might find this a little interesting, but I thought it'd be a good idea to kind of unpack

Some of my own theological Positions with respect to certain topics that might be of interest to some folks

I do place great value in the fact that one is able to survey Their own belief and beliefs and explain why they hold to certain positions

And there is some educational value to that And so as I share my views with respect to creation

Soteriology, the doctrine of salvation Perhaps we'll talk a little bit about my eschatology, my end times view

Perhaps folks will find that somewhat valuable as they are Perhaps searching for their own perspective on these topics

And so hopefully that will be useful to whoever may be listening You might also if you're used to listening to my show and my voice is somewhat familiar

I am kind of sort of losing my voice, so I'm partially questioning the wisdom of me even going live today, but I Here's the thing

Okay, I love I love theology. I love Apologetics, I'm the sort of guy that that on the one hand you might see me very tired

And I don't want to really get into a conversation But once people start talking about the Bible or apologetics or theology,

I get kind of a renewed energy So hopefully I won't lose my voice completely and I will get energized through reflecting on some interesting theological topics that I've studied in my own personal life and Hopefully you'll find that useful.

All right, so if I sound a little different I do apologize Just real quick before we dive into some of the specifics of Some of my theological perspectives.

I just want to give folks a heads up I am still good to go in terms of having dr.

Matthew Barrett on If you don't know who dr. Matthew Barry Barrett is he is the author of simply

Trinity and of course the highly popular book God's Word Alone, I believe that's what what it's called and there's a whole series there in which you have different authors defending some aspects some pillar of Reformed theology, and so I'm very much looking forward to having dr.

Barrett on. Sola Scriptura is a very important reformed foundation and Especially with my my study into Eastern Orthodoxy and of course whoever might be involved in the study of Roman Catholicism the issue of Sola Scriptura and one's ability to defend the truth of that doctrine is vitally vitally

Important so I'm very much looking forward to to that discussion also, dr.

Michael Heiser Is hopefully still coming on. I haven't been able to reach out to him yet I know he is undergoing some health issues and I'm kind of following some of the updates that he's posting on on Facebook I've just recently recovered from From kovat so I haven't really been going a hundred percent in terms of you know

Reaching out to folks and and and things like that. And so I'll check into that and keep folks posted with respect to that I'm also if you have any questions about anything, so so this is kind of like I'm not only serving some of my perspectives

Theologically speaking, but if you have any questions for me with respect to a position that I hold or if you have

Any apologetics question all all questions. All of that is fair game Feel free to leave a question in the comments

It is helpful and useful to me when you preface your question with the word question or the letter

Q so that I could differentiate questions and comments, okay, so without further ado, let's

Let's get into this. Well first I want to make a disclaimer I am a theologian only in the popular sense.

I do not have a PhD in theology I grew up in the church. And so theology has very much been a part of my life

Whether I'm arguing some element of theology with family members or later on in life engaging in apologetics and teaching

Theology to middle school and high school students. I am NOT a scholar by any means

I've gone to seminary, but I I don't read Koine Greek.

I can read it very little So everything that I'm going on is based upon really my own personal studies and personal reflections

This actually is something that should actually be very encouraging to folks For example, let's take a look at some of my apologetics now

A lot of people know that's that's a central focus of my ministry. My youtube channel, of course is called revealed

Apologetics. This is something that's very encouraging to folks. Okay, I went to seminary. I have a graduate of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary I earned two masters in Theological studies.

I have a Master of Arts in theological studies and a Master of Divinity with a theological focus. Now, here's the thing 99 % of the theology that I learned

Actually was not from my seminary training, but rather through my personal study.

Okay, and The value of knowing that is that you do not need to go to Seminary in order to really dig deep into theological studies.

It definitely helps But it can be done without it. If you have a good focus and discipline

You're going to a solid church where good doctrine is promoted These sorts of things are sufficient as well to really equip the average believer

So I want to encourage folks. You don't need to have a PhD next to your name in order to do

Theology and or even do theology. Well, hopefully I'm a person who perhaps you think

I do a theology and apologetics well, I greatly appreciate that if you think that about me, but There have been some major ideas

That I have struggled with especially with regards to The doctrine of creation with the whole old earth young earth debate and so I'm kind of I'm kind of gonna

I'm gonna Put my flag somewhere on this show and tell you a little bit where I where I stand with respect

To the doctrine of creation and we're gonna kind of follow kind of general theological and biblical themes so for example

You take a look at the scriptures The scriptures are comprised of 66 books 39 books in the

Old Testament 27 books in the New Testament is written over a period of 1 ,500 years written on three different continents in three different languages a

Hebrew Greek Aramaic Bibles a pretty big book. Okay, and it can be very intimidating

Especially when you have one of those giant study Bibles, it looks like you're kind of studying and reading from an encyclopedia

But what I have found Is that the entire Bible can be summarized in just a few

Major themes of which all of the stories all of the teachings and doctrines really in the scriptures kind of reflect these broad basic themes that you find throughout scripture and those themes are creation

Redemption. I'm sorry creation the fall redemption and Consummation.

Okay, and so you have from creation all the way up to consummation Which really typifies

If you take a look in terms of just history It really typifies what we would understand is a what we call a linear model of history.

This is very important. Okay History itself. Okay along with everything else that we believe

Is always interpreted within a worldview perspective. And so I see history.

This is kind of my theology of history I see history as linear in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Okay, and so my belief in creation is Connected to my belief that everything within history has a specific purpose

History itself is unfolding God's plans God's purposes, especially with respect to His unfolding of his redemptive plan throughout history.

And so I believe Especially coming from a reformed perspective I believe that God decrees whatsoever comes to pass and that is what gives the events of history meaning and significance, okay, so Beginning with with some of my theological beliefs.

I have a theological perspective of history And so I follow what we call a linear

Model, which is actually very different. I'm not sure folks are familiar with this But when you study history what undergirds history and what undergirds all of the disciplines whether you're studying philosophy

Mathematics science, whatever the case may be There is always as you should be familiar with if you listen to this show, there are always undergirding worldview

Foundations. Okay. There's not just history There is a philosophy of history and the philosophy of history is not just a bare philosophy a general perspective

It comes from a specific worldview perspective And so you could have a very Christian understanding of history and you can have a very

Let's say an Eastern perspective of history, which follows a more cyclical model of history

So from the Christian perspective as I perceive it history proceeds in linear fashion Creation and then everything that unfolds from there is actually moving towards a specific end now that being said and this is important if you're a

Christian who believes in The decrees of God that whatever happens in time and space is is something that unfolds

God's plans and purposes Okay, that is not to say especially coming from a reformed perspective when

I say that for example I do not believe in luck chance and randomness. That is not to say that Just because there is a reason and purpose for everything that happens that we necessarily know

What those reasons are okay so for example when you take a look at the philosophical problem of evil and Christians grapple with the notion of the existence of objective evil and the existence of the sort of God that is presented in Scripture I do believe that God has morally sufficient reasons for the evil that he allows but that doesn't mean

I know Specifically in every instance and manifestation of evil that I know what that specific purpose is

There is elements of mystery within that perspective And of course there is a theology of mystery which

I firmly hold to I do not pretend to be able to explain Every single detail of why

God does what he does Deuteronomy 29 29 says that the secret things belong to the Lord But the things revealed belong to us and our children's children

And so I think theologically, I mean, this is something I hold very strongly there is room for mystery an appropriate room for mystery and It is not always

It can be sometimes but it's not always a cop -out to appeal to mystery, so for example, if you know some of the the interviews that I've done with respect to Calvinism theological determinism

Engaging the question Of how one is to reconcile the notion that God is meticulously sovereign yet Man is sufficiently free and morally responsible for his actions

We have theological and philosophical explanations as to how we think those things work out, but I do believe regardless if there are

You know vitriolic Insults that are hurled in in the direction of reform theology for this

I do believe that in some cases it is very appropriate to affirm that how these elements are

Reconciled is in fact quite mysterious and so that when we are engaging in philosophical and theological

Explanation as to how for example one reconciles the notion of divine sovereignty and human freedom and responsibility

We are engaging in Speculation. Okay, that does not mean that it's inappropriate.

There is appropriate speculation But we are speculating Because I'm very much in line with John Calvin who held to the principle that when the scripture is silent

We should be also Again, so I I don't mind talking about, you know, having someone like Guillaume Bignon on or some other

Reformed philosopher to talk about how we explain some of these elements and how these things work together

Ultimately, I have no problem Saying I really don't know for sure how all of these things work out

And I have no I have no no problem with that as a matter of fact a friend of mine And you guys might be familiar with him.

He is a Well -known Molinist. Okay, if anyone is familiar with Molinism, which is a particular view of divine sovereignty

Which places a great emphasis on on what's called middle knowledge. I have a friend. His name is Tim Stratton He told me once he said if I wasn't a

Calvinist I'm sorry, if I wasn't a Molinist, I would be a Mysterian Calvinist.

Okay, and for Tim Or dr. Stratton will give it will recognize his credentials there.

Dr. Stratton Defines Mysterian Calvinism as the sort of Calvinism that says sure

God is meticulously sovereign man is sufficiently free and morally Responsible, but it's a mystery.

I'm not sure how it works out. I'm okay with that Okay, so I'm a Calvinist. I tend to lean towards a form of theological determinism and I believe it

Not only because I find the philosophical argumentation cogent and sufficient to my intellectual satisfaction

And that determinism survives many of the critiques that are launched at it by folks who hold to a more libertarian perspective

But most importantly because I have a very high view of Scripture I believe that Reformed Theology and a particular form of determinism is something that is reflected in The biblical text.

I know some people will hear that and they'll say that's ridiculous You know, they'll say when I read the Scriptures, I don't see anything in Scripture that even remotely looks like a form of determinism

Yeah, I don't think so. Even if Calvinism was wrong I would admit that there are elements of Scripture that seem very deterministic and so the debate and the discussion is not as simple as waving your hand and pretending that Calvinists have nothing valuable to bring to the table.

In like fashion, I do believe as as a student of Scripture that in favor of the

Arminian perspective or someone who holds to the View of free will which leans more towards the libertarian perspective while I do not hold to those perspectives

While I do not believe they are necessarily reflected in Scripture I totally and completely understand why

Someone can read portions of Scripture and come away with that perspective. And so I hold to a particular view

I am Calvinistic in terms of my view of divine providence But I respect different perspectives and I see why some people hold the positions

They hold ultimately at the end of the day my theological convictions are that those non reformed perspectives

Libertarian perspectives are ultimately not the correct view Okay And that is the position that I hold some of you who might not be familiar

With some past episodes and the certain things that I've studied before. I actually used to be a

Molinist and I remember the book I remember the book that actually

Converted me to Molinism into an adoption of libertarian free will and things like that It was a book by Kenneth Keithley who is a professor over at Southeastern Theological Seminary.

He wrote a book called Salvation and Sovereignty and that book when I read it

Convinced me of Molinism until I started applying Molinism to other areas, which

I thought were very important, especially with Soteriology and things like that And I became unconvinced in its application in those areas and for other reasons as well

I kind of went back to my reformed Perspective and so I am a a

Calvinist. I do not hold to libertarian free will and no I'm not convinced by the accusation.

Well, you were determined to say that I think those are very simplistic responses and The debate on that topic

I think goes much much deeper. All right, so that's my perspective with respect to a

Theology of time. Okay, I believe time proceeds in linear fashion. It is an unfolding of God's Redemptive and decretive purposes.

Okay with respect to my view of Divine providence and things like that.

I lean within a reformed and Calvinistic tradition There are some variation even within that but I tend to hold to a form of theological

Determinism if you need a point of reference and say well, wait, what do you mean theological determinism if you read?

You know Someone like Guillaume Bignon is a good friend of mine. He's a French philosopher

I tend to lean towards his position with respect to that topic. Okay.

All right. Well Again, just to remind folks if you have any theological questions or biblical questions, feel free to put them in the comments

It does not necessarily have to be related to a view that I am sharing here but You know ask away, all right, okay, so my next question my next topic

Which people have seen me go back and forth on if you know and I highly

Recommend and I know folks who have seen the discussions on this topic would highly recommend on my channel

Are the discussions I had with? Dr. Jason Lyle who is a young earth creationist and he is a

PhD astrophysicist And I had him in dialogue with dr. Hugh Ross who is also and a

PhD astrophysicist and an old earth Creationist and I moderated a discussion

Between the two and in my opinion, I suppose I'm biased right as I often say there is no neutrality, right?

I'm biased, you know, I Think that that was one of the the best

Conversations on that topic that I've ever listened to and dr. Lyle and dr Ross have had interactions in the past, but I actually think the discussion they had on my show

Was was the best discussion that that I had the pleasure of listening to between them

So I highly recommend you listen to that. But where do I stand? Okay, where would I stand with respect to?

This debate over the days of creation now. Now, here's the thing you need to understand that studies in Interpretation of the book of Genesis is a very very

Complicated field. Okay. It's not as simple as just reading Genesis 1 and 2 and saying oh

It's this is clearly what they're saying. Okay, there is a very important consideration of historical context identification of the literary genre of various portions of Genesis and you have people from different perspectives arguing.

Well, clearly it's this or clearly it's that listen I'm a presuppositional list in my perspective.

I trust in the authority of God's Word I understand the importance not of just looking at data and evidence in favor of a view

I am very sensitive to the fact that our presuppositions affect how we interpret the data

Okay, and this when you study the creation account in Genesis and throughout scripture there is a strong interplay between literary interpretation and Scientific findings things like that you get into questions of Big Bang cosmology and evidence for or against and a young earth or older Perspectives.

I am not ashamed Okay of the fact that the Bible may be teaching that God created everything in six 24 hour periods and that the earth that the universe is, you know somewhere between six to ten thousand years old

That's not the issue. My issue is not I'm afraid to sway in one position my issue is that Genesis is a very nuanced book there is

Different ways one can identify theological and literary genre and playing within those accounts

And so it is not an easy Decision for me Okay.

Now you might read Genesis and be like, oh it's clear for me with some of the things

I know with respect to what goes into studying ancient literature and genre and things like that It has not been an easy study and an easy

Situation in which I can just put a flag down and be like this is where where I hope however, okay

I told you at the beginning of this video. I'm going to put my flag somewhere. Okay.

Now now here's the thing. I personally do not hold to say a

Literary framework perspective. I I am NOT attracted to over metaphor isn't was the real word, but I'm gonna let me rephrase myself.

I'm not overly attracted to positions that Look at a lot of metaphor in Genesis Okay, I am attracted to a more literal interpretation of what

I'm reading Okay. Now literal is a sticky word. You will often hear people say well

You know, do you interpret the Bible literally well, yes But it depends what you mean by literal.

Okay. This is actually an important point to kind of point out to interpret the

Bible literally is to interpret the Bible according to its literature and Identifying the literature of portions of the

Bible that you're reading is not always Pardon is not always an easy thing to do now all of that sidestepping and ambiguity aside

Okay, if you put a gun to my head and you said Eli you need to choose right now

Do you understand the creation account to be? Literally 24 hour days or long periods of time or other perspectives out there

I would have to say that if you if you put a gun to my head and forced me to Put my flag somewhere.

I would be more sympathetic to a young earth Interpretation. Okay. Now I I say this with Flexibility in the sense that if you happen to hold for example to a day age

Perspective in terms of which the the creation days are not literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time

I'm of the position where I can look at the text and say Okay, I see where you're coming from and I kind of see how that might make sense

Okay, so I do not see the old earth creation perspective an example the day age interpretation or something like that,

I do not see those perspectives as a Compromised perspective you will often hear this language, right?

Oh, well those, you know deep time proponents are Compromisers, right?

They are adopting secular perspective. I don't hold to that I don't use that sort of language in describing the other position

And you might have strong convictions to the cut, you know to the contrary I just think that the the topic is more nuanced and requires a little bit more flexibility

So ready? I am okay, a flexible young earth creationist who is open to old earth interpretations

Okay, I I get hit by a car I go through the pearly gates and I asked

Jesus which one was it Okay, and it supposed Jesus as well It was the old earth perspective

Hugh Ross was my messenger and I tried to tell people if that's the case Cool.

All right. I'm down. I'm down with that If you know, I get to heaven and Jesus says yep

It's the young earth perspective didn't don't don't you know that that God has the power to create all things in a split second

Come on, man. I'm okay with that as well. Okay What I am also okay with but I don't agree with at all

Okay, I am NOT nor do I hold to the view that scripture allows this is my perspective.

I know a lot of people might disagree with this but I do not believe that a

Atheistic Evolutionary perspective is a viable option in terms of Understanding the text there.

Okay now suppose I get to heaven and God says up God used devil Oh, yeah, I use devil. Okay, but as I read the text of Scripture, I do not see

Room for that in ways that perhaps some other Christian brothers may may see that as a viable a viable position to hold

Okay, so I lean more towards a young earth perspective I do not reprimand folks who hold to an old earth perspective, but I am

NOT a theistic evolutionist all right, okay, so I hope that makes sense and kind of allows you to see where I my flags kind of get rooted in the ground there in terms of Really interestingly enough a very highly contentious theological

Topic. I mean there have been tons of books on creation and evolution and you know different interpretive models

It's actually pretty Interesting. Okay. All right I see some people send in some questions.

Yeah, keep keep them coming. I will definitely address them And Yeah, so I'm gonna gonna go through some other perspectives here

With it with respect to my own personal theology and then I'll take some questions there. So we got a couple of good ones Okay All right

All right, it's tempting to just kind of stop talking now and just go to some of the questions, yeah

Okay, let me go through a couple more a couple of more of my theological positions and then we'll say

I gotta stay focused Okay. All right. So another another topic that I okay. So I talked about my view of creation.

I talked a little bit about my Theological Position with respect to being reformed which is no secret for people who watch this this show

To say that I'm reformed is very ambiguous since there is a lot of variation within the reform tradition

But so so teary ology I hold to all five points of the tulip acronym

For example, I am not convinced at all when I listen to my friend

Layton flowers Who I think is a brother in Christ a nice guy with when it comes to kind of our personal interactions, but I Am not convinced at all of his understanding.

So I'm not a provisionist. I'm not an Arminian. I tend to be right in line with Popular notions of what people think of in terms of what

Calvinist believe. Okay, so I'm a five -point Calvinist I hold to total depravity unconditional election limited atonement

Irresistible grace and perseverance of the Saints. Okay. It's a matter of fact guess which one out of the tulip acronym

Was the one that was the most difficult for me to affirm? Okay, when you take a little let's define our terms here.

So so folks who aren't familiar with with Calvinism Calvinism as with with the emphasis of What we call in theology.

So teary ology, which is the doctrine of salvation Okay, if you you know learn these theological terms you have you have theology, which is the study of God Christology, which is the study of Christ.

Okay, you have Hermitology, which is the study of the doctrine of sin. Okay, you have

Eschatology which is the study of last things and you have so teary ology, which is the study of the doctrine of salvation

Ecclesiology, which is the study of the church and things like these are theological terms.

Okay, so when I use the term so teary ology I'm in essence talking about The study of the doctrine of salvation.

What is my so teary ology? What is my belief about how God saves people? Okay, and so when you talk about Calvinism, this is very important Calvinism is not simply a so teary ological perspective

Calvinism is a much more broader A theological perspective, okay

Of which so teary ology is a more a more focused emphasis on the question of how does

God redeem? People okay and so out of the the the tulip acronym there is

Total depravity the idea that we are totally and completely covered and touched by sin and all that we are given our state of Depravity no man seeks after God we are at enmity with God We are born in sin and trespasses so left to ourself left to our own devices.

We will never seek after God. Okay That is why salvation requires unconditional election

God chooses us from before the foundation of the world because we would not have chosen him and so God Chooses a people the father chooses a people to give to the son and the son redeems that people he makes atonement for that people

So you have total depravity? Unconditional election. We are predestined before the foundation of the world not based on anything that we do and then

Typically, this is the most difficult pill to swallow for a lot of people and that is actually the doctrine of limited atonement

Okay, and limited atonement is very difficult for people not only

Emotionally because it is difficult to conceive of the idea that the God of the

Bible When it speaks of sending Jesus Christ to die for the world Why would

God send Jesus to only die for the elect and not for everyone? Okay, so there's kind of an emotional

Objection to limited atonement and there's a very strong biblical objection So you have people who reject limited atonement will often appeal to those texts and scripture which emphasize

Universal language, okay and John 3 16 I mean, it's not always used but I mean you have that universal language for God's whole of the world

He gave his only begotten Son and whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. So you have that word World there so it seems like a universal scope.

God is the Savior of The world and not only the world not only those who believe but for the world.

So you have this idea of Jesus dying for it's kind of a universal Atonement, okay now that said

While limited atonement has often been the most difficult for people the last

I actually think limited atonement is clear in scripture in the sense that when you understand the nature of the atonement and Substitutionary sacrifice especially as projected in the book of Hebrews and things like that Limited atonement was not a difficult concept for me to understand when

I studied limited atonement became convinced of it I was like, okay. Yeah, I see how that works.

What was difficult for me? To adopt was actually odd the I in the tulip acronym, which is irresistible grace

Okay, that was my own personal struggle But at the end I did I what I am able to perceive the idea that in reform theology and reform

Soteriology I am of the position that each letter in the acronym t -u -l -i -p are

Logically connected such that if you believe in one the other aspects seem to follow

Logically, okay So that's my position with respect to salvation Election things like that.

I know there's some nuance even within those terms Perhaps we can talk about that if you have questions

With respect to those things. Okay. All right, cool. All right. So, um, yeah, okay

So, um, that's my position with respect to Soteriology. I am a five -point Calvinist my creation position

I lean more towards a young earth perspective. Of course, my apologetics is presuppositional in nature.

So we You know, we often talk about that in this channel. Okay? Um, let's let's let's touch the controversial stuff now as though that wasn't controversial.

What is my position on speaking in tongues Okay, I wasn't gonna touch on this position, but I was like, you know,

I'm thinking about it. You know what I've thought a lot about You know position of the the charismatic

You know church and the practices and things like that For those of you who are familiar with some of my beliefs and you are

Privy to the fact and if if you weren't now, you know that I lean more towards a reformed perspective

I actually was raised in a Pentecostal Church Okay my entire childhood from age zero to my early 20s

I was a member of an assemblies of God Church And so my entire foundation, okay one second my entire foundation of learning was within the context of a

Pentecostal context now Gratefully, I am grateful for this that in my in my own

Life as I grew up in church I did not go to the sort of Pentecostal Church that Participated in some of the more extreme

Charismatic practices where things get a little wild and crazy I did see a couple of things especially when we used to go to We had these these things called

Spring fest or winter fest and it's usually the these Big retreats where a bunch of churches would come together.

They were the highlights of my childhood By the way, I would not take any of those events back

I formed some great friendships there and even in the midst of some theological things that were taught that I no longer hold

I did learn a lot and and had a lot of opportunity to grow when I went to You know these events

But as I look back now There are a lot of things that I believed at one point, but no longer believe today and we'll talk a little bit

About that. Okay. So first, okay, let's go on to some of the what

I would say is the is the less biblical practice within the charismatic Church and I would say less biblical because I don't see it anywhere in Scripture is

Is the idea of being slain in the spirit now? I grew up in the context where people would fall down didn't happen every service, you know

You have that revival service then you would have a situation where people would go up to the front I was altar calls were a big part of my church experience okay, and I went to a

Spanish Pentecostal Church and that that's actually different than your generic run -of -the -mill Pentecostal Church because within the subculture of Spanish Hispanic culture, there's a definitely a different flavor

Then when you go to say a more American Pentecostal context, okay

If you know anything about Puerto Ricans, I'm a Puerto Rican. Okay, Puerto Ricans Hispanic people tend to be very very

Passionate and so passion energy Right the music this was very much a part of my experience when listening to preachers and things like that And so I'm mixed in with very charismatic speakers

Dynamic and confident people's a preaching with authority, which was something I appreciated you also have the practice of the altar call and Depending on the service or depending on the event

We went away to one of these spring fest or winter fest You would have this situation of people falling back and I remember my first winter retreat

We were in again. I we were part of what was called the Spanish Eastern District Okay, and so when we went to these retreats you had churches from all over a

Long Island and New York Go to this event. So there would be hundreds and hundreds of young people

And what was strongly impressed upon my mind and I could still think of the details now is

That the first event that I went to That was the event that I saw the most people fall out that I've ever seen before I remember looking around and seeing people all over the floor.

It actually looked like You know, there was a riot chairs were flipped upside down, you know, you had the music, you know

The guy was you know Who's leading worship was singing this, you know the songs for like the same song for like, you know an hour

I'm like, are we still on this song? so I was very much a part of that culture my position with respect to slain in the spirit and this is

This is being straightforward. I grew up in that context. So I understand how things go in that regard

I do not see it in Scripture Okay, now this is important because when

I came to I actually remember What convinced me that slain in the spirit was not biblical?

Okay, I remember Ironically if if you know, I actually had Hank Hanegraaff on my show a while back to talk about Eastern Orthodoxy And I remember before of course

Hank converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. He had these little Bible Question -answer books.

Okay, and in one of the books there was a small article that That treated the the question of being slain in the spirit and it was when

I first read that That I began to doubt whether what I was seeing in the church and what

I was seeing people experience whether that was in fact Biblical now without getting into too much detail

Here's the thing if I see something in the church and I observe, okay

All right. Now I grew up in a Spanish -speaking church. I do not I don't speak fluent Spanish. I always joke around I'm a terrible

Puerto Rican. Okay, you speak to me in Spanish now I will understand a lot but I cannot speak back in Spanish And so there's still a big gap in terms of my my my

Spanish comprehension But this actually played a role in my own Studies because I did not understand for the most part the sermons growing up because they were in Spanish I would spend my time in church

Tuesdays Thursdays Sundays We'd have two services on Sundays one in the morning one in the evening

Sometimes the services would be two hours if we had a guest speaker and evangelist would almost be three hours

I spent my time reading my Bible had this little new international Bible new international version and I read the

Living Daylights out of that from when I was little until my was an adult so I Was observing a lot of these practices of people falling down and things like that with knowledge of the scriptures

Okay, I knew my Bible and when I observe what was going on around me

What I noticed was I in all my reading of Scripture. I have never seen any of this in The scriptures, okay now many people will appeal to their own experience

Oh Eli You're not spiritual enough. You need to dive deeper into prayer and really

Experience God. Let me tell you something to experience God the idea the notion of experiencing

God must be understood within a context and the context in which we are to understand what a

Meaningful experience with God is must be Scripture and for me,

I take that very seriously now I'm gonna say this very straightforward, but I don't mean it pejoratively towards other people.

Okay, I'm gonna say this I do not care about your experience when the choice is

Scripture Versus your experience. Oh, but I've experienced that listen

You might have experienced something but the issue is not whether you experienced or not or not the issue is whether you are interpreting your experience at your experience correctly and The Bible is the lens through which we interpret our spiritual experience

And when I read the scriptures when I flip through the Word of God I do not see anywhere the idea of being slain in the spirit.

Where do I see slain in the spirit? not in Scripture But through church history not just only church history.

Do I see slain in the spirit? It is absent for much of church history until you get to recent times

Which is typically associated with churches that are not grounded in sound biblical Theology and are driven by emotion as opposed to Scripture I remember even sitting at a barbecue talking to a sister in Christ about this very topic and as I was gently

Pushing on well, what does the Bible? What does the Bible? What does the Bible say this person had the audacity?

I won't mention any names But this person had the audacity to look me in the eye and say Eli you know what your problem is you read the

Bible too much and When that person said that I felt completely vindicated in my questioning of the validity of things

Like being slain in the spirit Things that I've seen in terms of people making animal sounds in worship services

No, not in my own personal church. I remember going to a service. I Invited a friend it was a tent meeting.

It was a very Pentecostal Church, and I don't have any I have great Pentecostal brothers and sisters

I consider them my brothers in Christ and Not all of not even most of them would agree with some of the things that I'm saying here

Some people would actually resonate very much with what I'm saying. So I'm not putting all Pentecostals in that category

Okay, I still am friends with Pentecostals and I would go to them for guidance and questions on scripture on certain topics

So it's I'm not clumping everyone together. You do need to be careful with the fallacy of the broad brush, right?

I do not want to paint with a broad brush the extremes of that I'm about to tell you now is not something that all

Pentecostals hold to. The people at my church that I grew up with what I'm about to tell you would most likely not agree with This and so I wouldn't even clump the church that I came from in this category

But I remember that there was a church that was having a tent meeting kind of an old -school Revival sort of thing and even back then when

I was a teenager I was sort of a book nerd and I knew that when you go to the tent meetings they sell books in the back and so I bought

I remember I bought the The biblical application study

Bible, okay Just to tell you. Let me see. Hold up. I could find it.

I actually have oh my goodness This is so embarrassing. Okay, I'm not gonna embarrass myself completely.

I'm only gonna embarrass myself Partially, okay Just to tell you how deep

I was in the Pentecostal realm and kind of even flirting with the sort of Prosperity gospel and things like that.

I have in my hands right here. Okay. When did I get this? Oh my goodness Okay, this is from 1999.

This is a Joyce Myers Bible, okay It is old.

Okay I'm just gonna flip this I'm afraid to flip this on to the camera because someone's gonna put it on pause and read it

But right here, let me see if I could put it here right here I have a bunch of notes and goals that I wrote in my

Bible as a teenager as to what I wanted to accomplish Spiritually and in my life, it's super embarrassing.

This is a super old Bible, but I remember I bought the biblical application study Bible. My mom gave me this

Bible I used to you know, watch Joyce Meyers sermons and things like that. So I was in things deep

Okay, it was a you know when I look back now where I am now is a very different I was of a very different perspective back then

But when I invited a friend, okay to this tent meeting Alright what

I began to see and hear people around me Not only was was there people being quote slain in the spirit, but people began to make animal noises there was a person who was acting like a bird flapping their arms and The even things growing up in a

Pentecostal context. I had never seen that before and I felt mortified

Because my friend who was not a Christian looked at me and said what's that?

He says I feel this is what he said. He said I feel like I'm in Noah's Ark with the animals

My unbelieving friend said what do I say to that? Okay Now let's take away the extremes suppose that wasn't happening and simply something like slain in the spirit was occurring

Suppose just that was occurring and if my friend says what is that? What biblical justification could

I give my friend who is asking about that experience? I couldn't I couldn't give any biblical justification Because it's not in Scripture okay, so, um,

I Am very skeptical about a lot of what goes on in many

Charismatic sorts of churches. Okay. Now if we move towards a more biblical concept

Which would be something like speaking in tongues speaking in tongues is in fact biblical it is in the

Bible You see it in Acts chapter 2 where the Holy Spirit Grants the supernatural ability of individuals to speak languages.

They do not know you see this is one of the ways This is one of the signs of the birth of the church at Pentecost, right?

I get that. Okay. Now, what is my position? What is my theological belief? Concerning speaking in tongues.

Okay, this a specific area. I tend to be more careful and more nuanced because the idea of speaking in tongues is found in Scripture and I am aware of The arguments that are made by cessationists, okay now

I'm going to be using a theological term here cessationism typically holds to the position that the the various miraculous gifts have

They're no longer in effect for the church today So something like speaking in tongues is not something that we as Christians today should expect the

Spirit is not working in that specific fashion Some argue that there is no need for the gift of prophecy and things like that because we have the scriptures and things

I'm familiar with those arguments. Okay, and I lean towards the validity of those arguments

But I I would have to admit that those arguments are not knocked down in the sense that when

I hear the arguments and I Think they make sense and I may even lean towards holding to some of those perspectives

I'm very careful with what I think personally what I think those arguments actually get you to and so I would identify myself with respect to speaking in tongues as a cautious, okay a

Cautious cessationist, okay, I Resonate with the idea that speaking in tongues is no longer for today because the arguments to me seem

Somewhat convincing but they are not knocked down. And so I am open to the idea that if they are for today

I'm not going to say up. Look look what's happening. That's unbiblical. No, here is where I draw the line

Okay, here is where I draw the line What I've experienced in the churches growing up of speaking in tongues even as a kid

When I read my Bible and I read Acts chapter 2 Okay, and I see speaking in tongues in Scripture and Then I'm at a church service and I observe people speaking in tongues even as a young Teenager I knew that there was a difference between What I'm reading here and what

I am observing in my context I'm gonna say that again even as a teenager when

I read of speaking in tongues here and I observed speaking in tongues in the churches.

I even knew as a teenager. This is not the same thing There is a unique difference in the biblical description of speaking tongues

Versus a lot of what you see in churches today if speaking in tongues is for today

I am convinced that I have not seen a genuine manifestation of it because biblically speaking in tongues involved speaking an actual language none of this incoherent babbling, okay, by the way

The Bible says that when people speak in tongues, there should be two or three at most and even then there should be an interpreter

How do you interpret? babbling How do you interpret that if someone says well when my church we speak in tongues and it's more of that kind of the incoherent babbling sort

But we have an interpreter if people interpret what it well How do we know the interpreters correct because the person is not even speaking a legitimate language you see when you read scripture though They are speaking

Actual languages, which is actually one of the divine markers that what was happening here was in fact supernatural

Which is a stark difference for what you see in a lot of places in Pentecostal churches today and so I'm very cautious with respect to how

I interpret the experience of speaking in tongues as is Manifested in many Pentecostal churches today because my standard is the scriptures.

Okay? And so that is my position with respect to Speaking in tongues and things like that now last and certainly not least and we'll get to your questions.

Thank you so much There are a couple of questions here that are interesting and hopefully we can get into into some of them

I want to share with you my eschatology. Okay? Eschatology again, if you are a theological veteran, you'll know what this is if you are a theological newbie

Eschatology is the study of last things it is it is typically the last Chapter in your systematic theology book

It often pertains if I can use the popular language kind of the end of the world sort of thing the second coming of Christ the resurrection the judgment alright, so I Grew up.

Okay a Tim LaHaye sort of guy. All right growing up the

Eschatological position that I was taught was that of the pre millennial

Dispensational flavor. Okay, and more specifically along the lines of say

The left -behind series. Okay, so I believed that in the future We are expecting a rapture

Which I was taught was a sort of secret coming of the Lord in which believers would be caught up in the air

And be removed from from the earth and those who are left behind Would be here on earth

Experiencing a period of tribulation, you know the deal the seven -year tribulation.

You have the Antichrist you have persecution you have the mark of the beast as is mentioned in the book of Revelation and things like that and At the end of the well the middle of the seven years you have the

Antichrist breaking a covenant that he that he's established and and then at the end of the seven years you have the bodily return of Christ and of course the millennial reign and things like That was the position that I was raised to believe

However, okay. There was a book that when I read it it Revolutionized my perspective now.

I might share the title of this book with you, which I'm about to And you might totally disagree with the eschatological position that I'm gonna put forth right now

But okay, whether you agree or disagree for me When I read this specific book that I'm now going to mention in just a few moments it

Forced me to look at what I took for granted from a different perspective

Okay, I began to see what I was taught with respect to the end times

I began to see how weak it was from my perspective Scripturally there were pieces of scripture that I read that did not seem to Fit the model that I was being taught.

And so I brought questions to various pastors and informed believers at the time and I wasn't very happy with The explanations that I was that I was being given and of course,

I was seen as kind of that annoying guy Yeah, excuse me. I have a question and then I wouldn't leave the person alone

You know, I think I think my dad used to teach Bible Institute or Or maybe he was taking a class or whatever and I would go with my dad and I would kind of wait in the pastor's office until he was done and Sometimes I catch the pastor in his office and I say hey, you know pastor.

I have a question Okay, and it wasn't even necessarily my pastor There are other pastors that were associated with the biblical

Institute that my dad Taught some classes or he was a student there and so what I would talk to a bunch of people and I was very

Dissatisfied with a lot of the answers I was given. So what is the name of the book? That changed my perspective on eschatology and it was actually interestingly enough

My backdoor entrance into the study of apologetics I actually was exposed to Greg Bonson by this person's literature and things like that.

And that was the book Last Days Madness the obsession of the modern church by Gary DeMar.

Okay once I read that book my entire perspective was changed and most specifically relating to what

I Really had an issue with when I read my Bible and that was the time texts of scripture so for example when you read the

Olivet Discourse, which is Paralleled in Matthew 24 Luke 21 and Mark 13 Okay You take for example

Matthew chapter 24 And you see the description of what many believe is a description of the

Great Tribulation Period and then you get to Matthew 24 34 I believe is 34 where Jesus says and this generation will not pass away until all these things take place

And when I'm reading this in Last Days Madness the obsession of the modern church, I'm trying to understand Well, wait a minute, you know this generation can mean this and can mean that But Gary DeMar was correct when he said that when you do a study of the phrase this generation

It always means and only means the specific generation to which

You know who is being spoken to at that time? Okay, and of course if you look at some study Bibles will hold to a more premillennial dispensational position

They'll say well this generation refers to that generation of the future who experiences these signs that wasn't convincing to me at all

Okay, I was like well This seems to mean this and if it means that then the word that should have been used in Matthew 24 34 so there were certain kind of blocks theological blocks that began to tumble down and really begin to Change my perspective feel people ask me, you know, are we living in the last days?

Well That's funny. The phrase last days is is found in Scripture. And so, you know when you read for example

Hebrews chapter 1. Okay Let me actually turn there real quick. I Know it by heart, but let me actually go there so that I can read it more specifically here more accurately

Do -do -do -do -do Hebrews chapter 1 says reading from my Joyce Meyer study Bible Okay No judgment here.

Okay, no judgment here. It's not really a study Bible. There's not even any notes in it Maybe she wrote the introductions to the

I'm not sure. I don't know what how she can't how she contributed to this, but you know, I don't know at any rate

Hebrews chapter 1 says The following okay In many separate revelations.

Okay, each of which this is a weird reading Maybe I shouldn't read from the Joyce Meyer Bible. Actually, I'm gonna read it.

Look what look what it says Translation here it says in many separate revelations each of which set forth a portion of the truth and in different ways

God spoke of old to our forefathers in and by the prophets verse 2

Okay, which is that's a really weird translation there But in verse 2 it says and this is the relevant portion here

But in the last days in the last of these days a better translation would say in these last days

He has spoken to us in the person of his son. Okay, so I kind of annoying to read that Translation.

Let me let me get something more Orthodox. Hold up timeout. Okay, and when I say Orthodox When I say

Orthodox, I'm gonna be reading from the translation That the Apostle Paul used which is the

NASB. Okay, by the way NASB and the ESV are my two favorite Bible translations a little shout -out

Real quick now interestingly enough. This is the MacArthur study Bible who Who is a reformed pastor who would disagree with what

I'm saying? Because if you know John MacArthur does hold to a sort of dispensational eschatology

So I'm gonna read from Hebrews, but I won't read from John MacArthur's notes on this topic

Because there is gonna be an obvious disagreement there. Okay. All right Let's see

Hebrews chapter 1 in the NASB Thank you so much for bearing with me as I make a fool out of myself as I frantically look for The book of Hebrews Where is the book of Hebrews?

This is embarrassing. I'm a Christian apologist. I this is I should know this. Okay got

James there Okay. All right There is

Titus and Philemon There we go Hebrews I found Hebrews Congratulations, I see some people laughing about making comments about the

Joyce Meyer translation I think I think this translation is Joyce Meyer Bible is an amplified

It's amplified translation. So it will amplify certain words.

And so that's why you have the weird wording there Oh, man, I'm so glad I never got rid of this one.

This is hilarious And of course, I have some of my personal notes from back in the day, okay, so Hebrews chapter 1 from the truly inspired version the

NASB Okay, the New American Standard Bible. The New American Standard Bible is my translation.

I actually had to do a little piece there For Chris Arnson's show iron sharpens iron.

He asked me to give a shout out to the NASB. It is my favorite translation So you should pick yourself up a translation of the

NASB. Okay, so chapter 1 verse 1 and 2 of Hebrews says

God After he spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets in many portions and in many ways in These last days has spoken to us in his son whom he appointed heir of all things through whom also he made the world

Etc, etc in these last days. Okay, so people ask me are we living in the last days?

I take that phrase and try to understand it within a biblical context The book of Hebrews was written over 2 ,000 years ago

And the author of the book of Hebrews apparently believed the days in which he was living in was in some sense the last days

Question is the last days of what? so the end of the world is the end of the age which is more specifically relevant to Matthew 24

Luke 21 mark 13 and This is where when I read Gary DeMar's book there was a very clear distinction between the end of the world and the end of the age and the

The time period leading up to and including the destruction of the temple reading that book and Examining the scriptures that Gary DeMar used to support his position

I have come to hold to what is known as the partial Preterist perspective so in my eschatology my view of end times.

I am a partial preterist Okay Preterist referring to the past partial referring to the idea that I do not believe everything in Scripture is fulfilled

I am still awaiting a bodily return of Christ a resurrection of the dead a

Transformation of the living the twinkling of an eye as Thessalonians says I'm still waiting for those things but specific references to example for say the

Great Tribulation a seven -year tribulation I believe these are things that actually had relevance to The people back then because you have this time language of not only last days back then

Not only this generation back then but you have indicators all throughout Scripture most interestingly enough in the beginning of the book of Revelation where the word

Near and soon occurs. Now. This was this was an interesting one. I remember sitting in in a pastor's office and And I'm not undermining

Intelligent believers who hold to a premillennial dispensational position There are people who can very very strongly

I think argue their position and and then there's a kind of an interesting debate to be had in that respect But I remember reading

Revelation chapter 1 verses 1 through 3 To a pastor and I said old pastor.

Okay when we read the book of Revelation The book of Revelation is heavily metaphoric

Okay, the the literary genre of Revelation is manifested in what we call apocalyptic literature

And so there's a lot of symbolism as a matter of fact two -thirds of the book of Revelation is actually Referenced to Old Testament concepts.

And so if you are ignorant, okay of the Old Testament You will be ignorant of the book of Revelation because the book of Revelation Presupposes an

Old Testament context through which to view many of the symbols many of the imagery and things like that.

That's very important now But before you get to the imagery before you get to the symbolism before you get to the highly disputed

This means this and that means that you have the introduction which is not very symbolic which is not very metaphoric

Here's what it says in Revelation chapter 1 verses 1 through 3 the revelation of Jesus Christ Which God gave him to show to his bondservants the things which must soon

Take place and he sent and communicated it by his angel to his bondservant John who testified to the

Word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ even to all that he saw blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it for the time is near Question.

This was my question. I remember sitting in office The book of Revelation was written over 2 ,000 years ago

Me personally, I'm convinced of the earlier dating if you know anything about studies in the book of Revelation there are two competing dates for when

Revelation was written and the the where you stand on that date is very relevant to the

Specific interpretation you give to the book the most popular I think and most widely held I think don't quote me on this is the position that the book of Revelation was written around ad 95 okay

I hold to the position that the book of Revelation was written before the year ad 70 Okay, I am of the position that all the books of the

New Testament were completed Before the year ad 70. Okay, and I think there's good external and internal evidence for that.

Okay, but I remember asking pastor if the book of Revelation was written 2 ,000 years ago and we are reading the book of Revelation and a lot of it we

Take to be referring to things in our future Why does the introduction of the book of Revelation speak of the things of which it's recording as events that must occur?

Soon for the time is near and of course, there are more sophisticated defenses of it

But as I was studying this was an unacceptable Unacceptable answer he looks at the passage and he says well for a

God a Day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day all that to indicate

Well based on God, I mean time is different for God Okay, I'm sorry that doesn't work for me because the book of Revelation was written to specific churches that were located in actual history and The words near and soon were very much relevant to them because they were the ones that needed to hear the message of Revelation here the encouragement of Revelation and here are the warnings of judgment in Revelation and so I did not buy that and so I kind of jumped on the

Gary DeMar partial preterist Kenneth Gentry's sort of Perspective and I've been there ever since convinced that that is with some caveats

That is probably what is going on with respect to the eschatological position

Eli but Eli I have a question. Where are you in terms of your millennial position?

Okay My first answer is I don't know and if you put a gun to my head,

I'm a post -millennialist Okay, I tend to lean towards a a post millennialist

You know Perspective. Okay, things look a little crummy now, but I do believe that the gospel will eventually engulf this

Context and the gospel will will spread forth and have an overall positive

Impact upon the world. I am NOT of the more pessimistic Eschatological positions.

Okay, so that is my position with respect to eschatology. All right now

I'm gonna take a sip of water Hopefully I won't get fired from my job because I need my voice because I'm a teacher

So hopefully when I teach tomorrow I can speak but let me take a guzzle of water and we'll take a look at some of These questions that are coming in.

All right. All right. Oh Good, okay

Whoo Now let's go and take some questions again as I made the caveat at the beginning

I am NOT a professional theologian in the sense of being you know, I'm a PhD in theology or whatever

But I have studied enough theology that I kind of know the basic landscape. And so I will try my best

To answer your questions. Okay First I'd like to give a shout out to Arthur bear

Who said love the channel Eli praise God you're okay from the kovat Yes, and reason why

I put that up on the screen is I greatly appreciate that. Yes. I just recently recovered from kovat It was horrible.

I Thought I was just gonna have some light symptoms and maybe just read books all day that didn't happen

So I'm glad to be better. Thank you so much for that Melissa Owens also she says glad you're getting better brother.

Praise God. Thank you so much Here's a profound theological question from a friend of mine Joshua pillows. Why are you so good -looking?

I don't know It's probably because of the jeans Okay. Thank you very much.

I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay. All right. Let's see here I'm gonna go through some of these

Okay again, so Michael Borg is asking a question that I did cover eschatology. What's your view on that? Just if I can give the terminology.

Okay, I grew up Premillennial dispensational I am currently a partial preterist and I am a post millennialist with respect to my millennial position

Okay And so that would be my eschatological position. Of course a couple people asked that question

So hopefully that is a sufficient answer. We have a question from Kamu. Okay. I like that Kamu and the icon is a little cow

They're very cool. Very creative Would you say that free will exist if God knows what is going to happen in the first place if God has a plan

Put in place and already knows what is going to happen. How can we have free will? All right

Well, it depends what you mean by free will if we take free will in a sort of generic libertarian sense

I don't believe that the foreknowledge of God diminishes a

Certain understanding of free will so for example, if you hold to a kind of a foreknowledge perspective

Foreknowledge does not equal causation. So if God knows what you're gonna do, that doesn't mean he causes you to do

What you're doing? Okay it really boils down to the issue of what you mean by free will and You know, is this a libertarian free will are you thinking in terms of compatibilistic free will

Are you a theological determinist with respect to God's decrees and and how the whole issue of the will plays out?

That's really going to depend. However, you don't want to make the simple mistake Okay of thinking that because God knows that therefore up we're not free

Foreknowledge is not inconsistent with making a free choice And I would actually agree with the libertarian if you're gonna defend libertarianism me personally

I'm not convinced of the foreknowledge argument removing free will there are ways in which you can work that out

That is not as devastating as one might think now. There are people who argue along those lines I believe if I remember correctly

Martin Luther held to this view that foreknowledge kind of Throws free will to the ground and but I do think there's a much more nuanced

Discussion to be to be had there with respect to that particular topic. Here's the thing with the issue of free will

As with everything when you're doing apologetics or whatever you must you must define your terms

Okay, as a matter of fact someone sent me a meme Of a joke and it was a joke.

I mean it was all it said in fun But someone says, you know, why did the the Calvinist cross the road? Okay, and of course, you know, it's a play on the on the classic the very classic and smart and intelligent joke

Why did the chicken cross the road? Okay. Why did the Calvinist cross the road answer? He had no choice.

Okay now it's a joke It's funny, whatever Um, but it is actually based upon a common misconception that if you're a

Calvinist and you believe that God decrees Whatever comes to pass it therefore Calvinists do not believe in free will that is not true okay,

Calvinists do believe in free will what they reject is a particular kind of free will and People who are not studied in the theology and philosophy of this topic will tend to just take free will as a blanket statement

That kind of has a straightforward meaning Actually, the topic of free will is very nuanced You have different categories and understanding of free will and of course you have the thorny situation of understanding particular sorts of free

Will within the context of God's meticulous sovereignty or lack thereof perhaps you alter position in which

God is not meticulously Sovereign in particular ways that reformed folks understand so defining terms is vitally important Okay, I hope that makes sense.

All right, let's go down here Let's see here All right.

So Joshua Ayala. Hey, is that a family member? He's got the same last name I have so many family on my dad's side alone

I think we have like 12 or 13 aunts and uncles and then I don't even know how many cousins I have So this person might actually be related to me.

The picture is too small for me to see So, okay. So here's a question Does God contradict himself one of the

Ten Commandments says thou shall not kill and later he sends the people of Israel to to kill

That's true. God commands the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites When you're talking about the the the conquest of the lands of Canaan the land that God promised to Abraham again

This is based on a very important nuance of terminology There is a difference believe it or not between the notion of killing and the notion of murder

The Ten Commandments does not necessarily forbid killing Okay, it might some translations might use that terminology, but the idea behind that is murder

Now what is the difference between murder and killing? Killing is the taking of life murder is the unlawful taking of life.

Okay, that is actually a very important distinction There are certain contexts in which it is appropriate to take life one being okay self -defense another being when

God is using you as his instrument of judgment upon the nation of Of the people of Canaan, okay

God commanded not to murder the Canaanites but to kill them as an instrument of his divine

Judgment, okay The reality is whether you agree with that or not or you think that's cool or not or right for God to do it is

Irrelevant if God is God then he is the giver of life He can take life and he is sovereign and in control and an authority enough to take life in any manner.

He sees appropriate people make a big Apologetic deal about the destruction of the

Canaanites and how this is a problem for the Bible. No, it's not a problem for the Bible It's a problem for people who have a squishy

Unbiblical and inaccurate picture of who God is. God is the most loving Compassionate being in all of existence

But God is the most dangerous being in all of existence and the Old Testament Specifically tells us and shows us and reflects the idea that he is a

God that is not to be trifled with Okay, God gave time for repentance and of course when he saw fit for executing judgment

He executes judgment by using the people of Israel and of course the people of Israel later on for their disobedience

Experiences the judgment and wrath of God. Okay, so there is no contradiction It is not a command to not take any life.

It is a command not to Commit murder and in a day -to -day normal experience you are not to go and take someone's life for illegitimate reasons

Obviously Moses is giving the Ten Commandments is given it to by God He gives to the people and of course He knows they're going into the land that was promised to Abraham and that they're going to engage in conflict.

Joshua knew this Okay, I'm not being sarcastic. I just want you to think in terms they weren't dumb

We're not gonna have like Oh God says don't kill and then God says, okay, don't kill now I want you to go and kill it's not it's

We want to give these folks a little bit of credit that there are important nuances that they would have been able to distinguish between Okay, so very very important.

That's a great question, by the way All right So Jeff Robertson says you believe

God ordains all things which come to pass, right? Yes, that is correct. I believe Yeah, I believe that okay

He goes on to say I think every fact is a revelation of the eternal plan of God. I agree That's right.

Everything that comes to pass All right, so let's move that there. Okay I'm not sure if there's a question, but I'm kind of just says at revealed apologetics.

I'm assuming it's worthy of reading here Okay, so Chris Chris Mabe says revealed apologetics. Okay, so not a theological question

But what area of North Carolina did you move to and how do you like it? I used to live in Charlotte, but now

I'm in the Hickory area. Okay, so I moved from Long Island, New York to North Carolina more specifically the

Clayton area. Clayton is located About a half hour 40 minutes from the city of Raleigh.

So that that's where I am I'm about three hours away from Charlotte. And that's why if people followed my

Facebook and Instagram I posted some pictures where I had the pleasure of meeting with Hank Hanegraaff The host of the

Bible Answer Man I went to the studio there to talk to him about some Eastern Orthodox stuff and then

I visited Reform Theological Seminary where I hung out Dr. James Anderson and talked a little bit about some presuppositional apologetics

So I don't live near the Charlotte area, but we're about three hours away, which is kind of a nice a nice day trip

Okay, so hopefully that answers your question here Brian sphere, that's a cool last name sphere.

Mr. Sphere. Do you reject double predestination or hyper Calvinism? Now, I'm not sure if you are equating double predestination with hyper

Calvinism There is not a one -to -one correspondence, but between that if you mean double predestination

In a sense what I would reject is the idea of equal ultimacy

Okay, so I believe that if God chooses and elects a certain people then that by extension would exclude other people, right?

so if there are ten people in a room and I choose Eight people to come and you know come into another room and kind of have fellowship with me then by extension choosing the eight people

I'm excluding two right did the math correct there? Yeah. So yeah in a sense I believe in double predestination, but I reject equal ultimacy with respect to God's saving power

I believe that the power that God extends to regenerate a dead sinner is not equally the same as when he

Passes over what we call within the theological context the reprobate So I don't think that they are a mirror image that when

God Saves his elect. There is a kind of opposite extension of power

That is put forth upon the reprobate that keeps them in their sin or something like that. I don't believe that perspective.

Okay Hyper Calvinism is not exactly the same as double predestination hyper Calvinism is a much broader perspective which runs into some

Incorrect theological conclusions and affects their perception of evangelism and things like that So there are a lot of other different problems with hyper

Calvinism. I wouldn't necessarily equate hyper Calvinism with double predestination Okay.

All right post tenobrass Lux Asks hi Eli. Are you a theonomist?

now that this is odd question and Post tenobrass Lux. Okay.

Okay after darkness light if those of you don't know what that means It's kind of nice reformed

Slogan It's a weird question not because it's a in and of itself It's a weird question.

The weird question is that I'm supposed to be somewhat of an expert on Greg Bonson and presuppositional thought but with all of my study of Bonson his apologetic literature one thing that I have not delved into in the amount of depth

Depth required for me to kind of come down strong on a position here is I have not really delved deep into his

Position concerning theonomy. Okay, when you speak of theonomy those Folks who might not know what theonomy is referring to it is referring to the law of God they ask

God Namas we deal with the law deals with the application of the Old Testament law within our current context.

Are we to hold? Old Testament law in usage today with respect to The political situation see for example, if you hold to a theon a theonomic perspective

There are some controversial positions regarding say the death penalty for homosexuals.

So there's an application, right? They app they apply Old Testament law to some of our current moral situations

And how that works out is kind of different within that camp But they do have specific positions with respect to how

Old Testament law applies to our modern context Okay, it's actually a very important topic.

Unfortunately, I have not studied theonomy specifically enough to come down Strong on a position there.

So unfortunately, I can't answer that question with any certainty. All right All right.

All right moving along. I do apologize if I skip a question. I'm just looking for the words question

Okay, Arthur bear asked the question. What are your thoughts on the use of the sinner's prayer? I Kind of resonate with folks who say that the sinner's prayer is not really the biblical model for repentance

I suppose you do have people who take issue with that Generically speaking if by sinners prayer it is a prayer that consists of someone admitting they're a sinner their need for a

Savior and that they're putting their their faith in Christ and it is done out of a genuine heart that is

Reflecting true regeneration I do believe that God listens to such a prayer and in that sense.

It would be a Valid a prayer do I encourage the sinner's prayer in the way that it's encouraged today?

And it's almost this idea that if you say the right words, you know This means you get your stamp on your hand and you're gonna go to heaven.

We know okay The real issue with respect to repentance and things like that and acknowledging that one's a sinner is really an issue of the heart okay, and of course that is something that God is is looking at not so much the

Correctness of our words when we are speaking Lord. I'm a sinner and blah blah blah It is more of the condition of the heart, right?

We can see the outward appearance God looks in at the heart and I think in that regard

I don't think it's completely illegitimate, but I do see the danger with how it is typically understood within popular discourse

Okay. All right This is an easier an easy question Kyperion Berean says coffee or tea

Absolutely. Definitely coffee. I tell everyone there are two things I need in life to succeed and to get along and that is coffee and Jesus not in that order

If you have coffee and Jesus that's heresy, but if it's Jesus and coffee, that's just good theology.

All right Thank you so much Kyperion Berean for that Let's see here

Let's see Okay, so George Huertas says or he makes a comment here

I was I was just told today by someone that God can make someone be slain in the spirit if he wants in his refutation to my stating it was unbiblical sure

God can send Spaceship to earth with Martians from another planet if he wanted the the fact is what is our standard in?

Evaluating these various practices within the church Okay, if you're going to argue Using the

God can do whatever he wants. You still run into the problem of The fact that God has revealed to us what he wants and what does

God want? God wants us to evaluate various practices in light of his word

Done, you've refuted their position. Well, God can do anything he wants cool Well, the

Bible states that he wants us to evaluate things according to his word We are to test all things and if you are engaging in a practice, that's not biblical, right?

Then I can't test it biblically in the sense that well if you're gonna say God can just do whatever and it's valid Then you are you are invalidating the very test that God tells us to use in evaluating and discerning between truth and error

All right, you can't do that. Now people say well George, okay, you know what your problem is

George Your problem is you put God in a box Right, you ever hear that especially when you're talking to folks who hold to these various practices you put

God in a box No, I don't put God in a box The reality is that God has put himself his will and the way he functions and relates to us

He put himself in a book and that book is his word and he commands us that we are to evaluate

All things in accordance with his word it is God who imposes the limits with which he will function and gives us the standard by which we are to judge the validity of supposed experience

Experiences of God and various teachings and things like that. Okay, so that's very important you can kind of turn the tables on someone who reasons along those lines and you can give him what we call in logic a

Reductio ad absurdum and actually showed the absurd conclusion that would result if we were to argue along those lines

Well, the Bible doesn't say it but God could do it if he wanted to is that now how we're going to defend doctrine

Certain prophetic visions that people have or some spiritual experiences. Is that is that what we're doing now? We're not gonna go by the

Word of God. We're gonna say well God could do it this way I'm not concerned with what God could do I'm concerned with what

God has done what God has said and how that relates to how I am to evaluate as a faithful Christian how

I am to evaluate Various truth claims that may or may not be detrimental to the body of Christ.

Okay. All right Do to do to do let's see here moving along Looking for questions moving through the comments

NASB the non -arminian standard Bible That's awesome All right.

Let's see here Do -do -do -do -do Let's see here a lot of comments.

That's good. Good. Good good Let's see

Okay, all right, okay

All right. So JD free says how much of Revelation do you think is fulfilled?

Okay, that that that's a very difficult question I did make mention in passing that I do believe in a future bodily return of Jesus Christ So I don't believe that happened

So references to to you know Some elements where people kind of think in terms of like the

Great Tribulation and various things with the symbols In Revelation, I do think a lot of those things referred to events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem but Revelation unlike Matthew 24 mark

Luke 21 Matthew 24 mark 13 Which are more historical descriptions of what they were to experience in terms of the persecution and the things leading up to the destruction of the temple

Revelation is a more apocalyptic and metaphoric description of a lot of what we are reading in Matthew 24

Luke 21 mark 13 Okay, so in that respect You know the the words that are governed by time indicators.

I tend to see as fulfilled with some caveats Which are rooted in say the second coming the final judgment,

I don't believe happened and so I am awaiting right now Not a secret rapture.

I associate the rapture with the second coming okay, and so I'm awaiting the the bodily return of Christ the resurrection of The dead the transformation of the living the new heavens and the new earth

Anything that is related to tribulation period and all that sort of stuff that's associated with the traditional pre -millennial dispensational perspective

I believe has been Fulfilled now if you say well, how much of Revelation do you think is fulfilled and you're asking me chapter and verse

I don't know where to divide that off the top of my head. Okay. All right Let's see here moving along Good.

Good. Good. Good A Question by Brian sphere, do you reject double predestination?

I answered partially that question and have you gone into pneumatology? Um, I know I did not go into pneumatology

But I did mention some theological terms that are important to be familiar with we said theology.

We said Christology. There's even bibliology Hermitology the study of sin and you also have pneumatology.

That is correct Eschatology ecclesiology the study of the church pneumatology is the study of the Holy Spirit If you want to know my position concerning the

Holy Spirit, yeah, I believe the Holy Spirit is a person I reject any theological position that Depersonalizes the third person of the

Trinity. I actually remember inviting a Jehovah's Witness into my home and We talked about the personality of the

Holy Spirit. And so I just asked a simple question I said well the Holy Spirit is not a person question.

Why when I read scripture he is described the Spirit is described with personal attributes

And of course this particular Jehovah's Witness oddly said well, it's metaphoric To which

I responded metaphoric for what it just seems to suggest that the Holy Spirit is described with personal pronouns, right?

so I believe that the Holy Spirit is a person the Holy Spirit is unfortunately in many quarters of Protestant Christianity evangelicalism today very very much

Put to the side we acknowledge the Holy Spirit, but there's not a great emphasis I think a lot of it is due to the fear of over -emphasis of the

Spirit which we see in a lot of the Prosperity churches and various Pentecostal churches, but I do think this is one of the things

I've appreciated The East the Eastern Orthodox position now again, I'm not

Eastern Orthodox I think Eastern Orthodoxy has a false gospel and I've been doing some studying we've doing some videos concerning that topic

However, one thing that I have valued from the Eastern Orthodox tradition is the great emphasis

They place on the triune God the concept of the Trinity and I think the evangelical church and Protestant churches need to capture

That emphasis because we serve a triune God And while we give lip service to the idea sometimes we tend to overemphasize preaching and teaching on Perhaps God the

Father and of course God the Son and then the Holy Spirit is often cast to the side with not much Emphasis, that's not everybody but that has been my experience in various quarters.

So with respect to pneumatology yep, I hold to a Very strong view of the work of the

Spirit in the life of the believer The primary work of the Holy Spirit is also involved in the issue of sanctification

Okay And I do place a high Perspective on the role of the

Spirit in the life of the believer today. All right. All right. Let's see here All right,

David hello David he says do you follow a specific reading plan? The short answer is no

I don't read a I don't follow a specific plan in the sense that I wake up in the morning and say, all right

I'm gonna follow my read the Bible in a year plan Which by the way, I highly recommend if you can do that, there are some great plans available

If you go to the the Bible app, there's some plans that you can pick that cater to your reading patterns however, when

I read the Bible And I typically give advice for people who are looking to read the

Bible But don't know where to start. I typically do point people in a specific direction For example, my popular answer when

I say when someone says hey Eli, where should I start reading the Bible? I give two two first suggestions if you don't like to read read the

Gospel of Mark and the only reason why I say that is the Gospel of Mark is A shorter gospel and the narrative moves along very quickly so if you're not a big reader and you just want to get a quick overview of the ministry of Jesus and what he's all

About jump into the Gospel of Mark. That might be a good place to kind of get your feet wet and Introducing yourself to kind of the overall story of the gospel

When I don't suggest the Gospel of Mark and you don't mind reading and getting a little deeper I do suggest the

Gospel of John when you read Matthew Mark Luke the synoptics they are called They are very different than when you read

Jesus in the Gospel of John and the Gospel of John Places more so than Matthew Mark Luke they place a greater emphasis upon the who of Jesus and when you become a

Christian and You are just starting off in your walk with Christ. Your concern is going to be well, who is

Jesus? I want to know who Jesus is Intimately and I think the Gospel of John does that in a way that Perhaps the

Gospels of Matthew Mark and Luke don't go in into the person of Christ from the angle that John takes it so for example, you read

Matthew and Luke and you have these genealogies that connect Jesus to Historical individuals establishing him as the son of David and you know things like that But then again when you read the

Gospel of John you your mind is transported automatically not to Jesus's family line

Not to Jesus being the son of David But in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was

God John 1 14 and the word became flesh right there in the prologue of the

Gospel of John We are given the true nature of the Son He is not simply a carpenter from Nazareth He is

God in flesh and I think that's a beautiful place for someone to start to really kind of dive deep into who

Jesus is as the God -man and The importance of understanding who he is with relation to our newfound salvation as we grow and grow after you read

John I highly recommend you jump into the book of Acts so that you see the work Pneumatology the work of the

Spirit in the development and growth of the early church I think that's a very important place and then of course you could dip into some of these shorter letters of Say first and second third

John and the the Pauline epistles and things like that Okay, there is no specific place that you must start

You know when you read a book, where do you mostly start? Okay, you mostly start in the beginning and so when someone says that where am

I gonna start? Maybe I'll start with Genesis Cool, you can start with Genesis and there's there's great value in starting with Genesis, but it's definitely not the book

I I typically point to for a person who is Looking to just dive into the

Bible for the first time. All right, excuse me All right

That's awesome J flow says free will Layton flowers is about to enter the chat Give Layton a break.

I know a lot of people You know, they can get annoyed at some of the things that he says and stuff I have to admit

I know there are a lot of people who have different opinions about Layton flowers But in in my personal interactions with him

He has been nothing but respectful and reasonable and while we we disagree strongly.

I do appreciate Interacting with him. I consider him a friend there. Okay Stephen Rivard, I'm sorry if I mispronounced that Question Jesus is obviously the

Word of God. Is it possible that the Holy Spirit is the wisdom of God? I'd be very careful with Attributing certain attributes to certain persons.

You have to understand that when you're dealing with God there is a very important doctrine of God which relates to the theological concept of the simplicity of God And so when we deal with the doctrine of the simplicity of God, it is very much wrapped up in two key concepts

One of which is the idea that the simplicity of God refers to the idea that God is not composed of parts

He is spirit John 424 But that if you get into some more traditional and classical versions of the doctrine of simplicity there is this notion that God is equal to his attributes and so the

Attributes of the Son are shared by the attributes of the Spirit are shared by the attributes of the Father and in that sense

They are equal. So I wouldn't say well The Spirit is the wisdom of God, but Jesus is the

Word of God I would also say Jesus is the wisdom of God as well, right? Jesus is the logos

Alright, Jesus is the the incarnated Christ is the physical manifestation of the very heart and mind of God He is the very wisdom of God and in that sense.

They all share those attributes, of course with different emphasis as As they're being revealed progressively throughout scripture, so I'd be very careful in Assigning certain labels to one person but not to the other person of the

Trinity. All right. All right There we go, here's that practical that practical question, right?

Look bullet jeet. I don't know if I pronounced that correctly says does God predestine your spouse? Well, if you consider what

I said before that God Decrees everything that comes to pass. I would say that even the person you marry is

Part of the decree of God. Okay that being said you need to be very careful Okay, this is where you get into some dangerous territory

That when we live our life, we do not want to live our life always thinking from the God's eye perspective

I do not know prior to being married who my wife is gonna be I still have to live my life

Talk to people talk to the girl that I like You know take her out to dinner go on a date.

You still have to do the scary stuff of interpersonal Interactions, okay

God decrees and predestines the ends and He also predestines the means by which those ends are met.

Okay, and so there's an there's a practical issue people say Well God has a wife for me out there somewhere and so they'll use that Mentality as an excuse to kind of just sit around and say well then that means

I really don't have to do anything cuz God's Gonna provide I'm just gonna wait on God, you know Biblical waiting is not necessarily sitting on your hands and just doing nothing biblical waiting is typically manifested in activity and the activity that we do is a sign of of trust in God's purposes and promises in our life that we step out in faith and walk in wisdom as God fulfills his plans and purposes in Our lives so you want to keep those things in a balance?

Yes, God predestines the ends, but he also predestines the means God elects people to salvation

But the means by which they elect experience salvation is through the means and the proclamation of the gospel

That is very very very important to keep in mind. Okay. All right, so Hunter asked a fun question.

Well, we'll see if this is a fun question. Okay, let's see What do you think of the idea that we could be the early church as in this world will persist so far?

into the future we will be viewed as Quote the early church. Sure. Yeah, if we go on for another twenty thirty thousand years

Yeah, we can be considered Placed in a particular timeline in the broader scope of things as being quote

Early as long as you specify what you mean by early Because even early can be a relative term you have early but then you have the people who are right there at the beginning

So what is the span of early I suppose? Yes We could be understood as quote the early church if there is a longer time into the future that we progress there.

Okay? This is a popular question that I keep getting asked and unfortunately,

I have no answer My wish is to write a curriculum For young people on the topic of presuppositional apologetics that can be used in this context and to write a book on Presuppositional apologetics in general

Due to my life situation. I've been able to start some things and have not been able to finish it

But this is definitely something that needs to to be done. This is a gap that needs to be filled

The best advice that I can give you The best way to use presupp within a homeschool context is to teach

With the sensitivity towards worldview, okay when you teach your child science math history philosophy linguistics language

Always be sure to couch those individual topics within a particular outlook on the world

That is grounded in Scripture and make various application You can teach your child that everything we do is connected to that biblical foundation so that whatever they're doing they have one foot in the specifics of the discipline that you're teaching them and one foot in that foundation that provides the

Meaningful context for what they're doing when you're able to skillfully do that as an instructor as a teacher

You you allow them to see the value not only of the specific things They're learning in the area

But the value of that Context that worldview which gives richness and meaningfulness and importance to those specific things

They may be struggling with maybe it's mathematics or something like that so I think the best way to teach presuppositionally is to teach with a

Sensitivity towards worldview and our commitment to the foundation of our worldview, which is which is

God the authority of God Okay, and so there are different ways you could apply that even without Formal Curriculum if that makes sense, okay being worldview sensitive

Bible as our foundation and this teach that consistently and show how all of our at different areas of learning connect with that I think is a good way to kind of engage in Presuppositional sort of education.

Okay. All right Augur, I do apologize.

Thank you so much. Eli shows clear evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. God bless. Thank you so much I appreciate that Definitely don't show the fruit of the

Spirit all the time, but I'll take it if someone says a fruit of the Spirit. Amen. God can use a wretch like me.

Hopefully People are being blessed by not only the content of the show, but how it's conducted.

I do try to be very mindful Of how I present myself. So thank you so much for that. I appreciate that Alright, George says if God knows what choices will be made and he goes on to create having made his plans

Can the person then choose otherwise than what God foreknows or does the choice get set in stone upon God?

effectuating the world Here's the thing if God decrees something to occur from before the foundation of the world that thing will occur with certainty

Notice what I didn't say that it will occur with necessity There's a difference between necessity and certainty and you get into some sticky grounds when you speak of necessity

But I think what God foreknows and what God decrees Will happen with a certainty and will not not come to pass because it is impossible

For that which God decrees not to come to pass. Okay, so in that sense

There is a sense in which the things that God decree is set in stone.

Okay, but that does not negate genuine freedom Of the choices that are being made and that is just to say

Philosophically that there is a position known as compatibilism I believe that meticulous sovereignty which includes

God's providence and decrees from before the foundation of the world is consistent with a sort of freedom that is sufficient for Moral responsibility and it is a genuine freedom that we are able to do what we desire to do things like that So I do believe that they are compatible with each other

But there is a sense in which what God decrees it is in a sense set in stone It will never fail to occur.

God cannot fail in his decretive purposes. Okay, very good question All right

Let's remove that there. Do -do -do -do -do Someone says I must go to sleep.

I Suppose I must go to sleep too. Let's see Let's see here Did you do

Joshua Ayala says have you heard of Tim Mackey and his YouTube channel the Bible project if so, how do you view their teachings?

Yeah, I'm very familiar with the Bible project There are a lot of things that That the

Bible project does great. I actually do encourage people to take a look at some of their videos But of course as with with anything you need to look at things with discernment.

There are some sketchy things some theological leanings that some of the videos promote that are very

Akin to say some of the stuff that say someone like NT Wright might hold I see some NT Wright influence on some of the ways they explain things and there are some positions with respect to I Believe maybe the

Trinity and some other things that are a little sketchy for me So I do try to be discerning with respect to that But overall a good resource as a quick overview of some of the books of the

Bible But also you need to also have in the one hand. Hey, this is pretty cool.

And on the other hand discernment Okay, so I would I would view the Bible project in a general sense a positive way, but with an air of caution

Okay, which is the case with with everything? All right Let's see here.

Did you do? Okay, okay

Do Okay, Isaiah the layman says what reservations do you have that creation is not a 624 hour day?

Well, I did make mention that I lean more towards that position So I would

I would tend to be of the position that that they are 624 hour days I guess my reservation is just the nuance of the literary genre and certain old earth creationist biblical arguments

Notice that there are not simply the scientific arguments that older creationist appeal to to support their position but there are various biblical arguments that they use that I think

To a certain degree kind of makes sense and I can see where they're coming from and so my reservation comes in really just being cautious and flexible in terms of the possibility and plausibility of certain interpretations and in that respect

I have reservations of saying You know, it's a 24 -hour position and if you don't hold to that you're just a complete compromiser

I don't hold to that position I think the debate is more nuanced and it is a worthy discussion to have with respect to how we interpret

Genesis Okay. All right. Okay, so there are some more questions

Unfortunately, it is late for me. We are almost one hour and 48 minutes in I do appreciate

All Of the questions and I do apologize if I have not been able to get to all of them.

All right, but hopefully the discussion that we had here and Engaging some of your questions and going over some of my own theological positions

This has been a fruitful and enjoyable and even entertainment entertaining for you

I just want to say from the bottom of my heart whether you are a Christian or a non -christian I do very much greatly support.

I'm sorry appreciate your support Of let me get this out of the way here. I appreciate your support of this channel

Of course, if you guys weren't listening in I'd be talking to myself So it very much encourages me that there are folks even folks who disagree

Theologically can be in the same comments and be respectful towards one another

I have to say one of the great prides that I have of this channel Is that while many

YouTube channels that focus on apologetics and of contentious topics? The comments can be pretty nasty for the most part

The comments in on the videos on reveals apologetics for the most part with some few exceptions

You guys have been really respectful with one another so I appreciate I appreciate that So, yes,

I am reading some comments here. Yes, I have not gotten to all the questions I apologize if I didn't get to yours. I I promise it's not on purpose

I'm beginning to lose my voice and it's getting a little late. So so I hope you guys can cut me some slack

All right Well, if you have a question that you want me to address next time I get onto my live stream

When I have an interview or if I do another another live stream like this Bring your question again, and and I'll try my best to to get to your to your question

All right, so I do apologize if I missed anything that you might have posted there Alright. Well, that's it for this episode.