Importance of Online Apologetics

Hmm, okay,

I'm gonna put you on here. I'm having stream yard is doing something weird. So let me

Actually jump out of the room if you could jump out of the room and then jump back in by clicking on that link We'll see if we can do that.

Okay, that sounds good, bro. All right. Sorry about that. That was awkward. All right All right, it is live.

Okay. There we go. That was some technical difficulties there I think it was going live the whole time. All right. Well Welcome to another episode of reveals apologetics.

I'm your host Eli Ayala. Sorry for that little technical difficulty. Wasn't sure that we were live there I'm excited to Be discussing the the topic for today

Which is the importance of online? Apologetics and of course everyone who watches my show and is on YouTube and engaged in apologetics and theology

All of you guys have to some degree benefited from online apologetics and online theology and things like that And so I am excited to have

Bobby Conway of the one -minute apologist on to talk a little bit about What is the impact of online apologetics how can one get started in doing something like this and what are the minimal things that you need

I mean, there's you don't need too much to get online I mean your phone usually can do the trick, you know going live or recording videos and putting them up But I want to jump into some of the specifics with regards to that Hopefully this discussion will inspire folks to in some way get involved in defending the faith so Just a couple of things before I invite

Bobby on here with me for folks who are interested I will let folks know the date in a little bit, but I'll be speaking at a conference in Virginia And I'll be speaking with dr.

Robert Bowman and Anthony Rogers on the topic of apologetics and I'll be giving two

Lectures there. And so I will keep folks updated on those dates. So if you're in the area, I'd love to see you and I think that's it.

I thought I had another announcement there, but I think that's all so without further ado Let me invite Bobby Conway with us and we'll take it from there.

How's it going Bobby? Good, bro Thanks for having me on AI. Well, it is a great pleasure to have you on I remember the first time

I ever saw a one -minute apologist video and that was when I was I was on the website

Apologetics 315 remember that website. Is it still up? Yeah, you know, I don't know I remember being interviewed by them many years ago and The guy that was doing a lot of the stuff

I think he went on to do something else, but the site I think still exists

But what's his name Brian Brian Auden? I think that's right. That's exactly what it is.

Yes Yeah, so if folks don't know what apologetic 315 is I mean, basically it is every single apologetic resource available on one website

There's audio there things to read book suggestions. So you definitely want to check out apologetics 315 but that's the first time

I ever saw Bobby Conway and is super interesting one minute or so, you know

But they were super helpful especially when you don't have a lot of time to watch like a 20 minute half hour an hour video so I'd like to talk to you a little bit about how you got that started

But why don't you tell folks a little bit about yourself? Maybe your background how you became a Christian and then we'll take it from there.

Yeah, you bet. So I grew up in, California and Loved playing baseball.

It was the one thing that kind of kept me out of more trouble and You know big partier promiscuous struggling in the throes of alcoholism about the age of 21

I mean and even before that I found myself really

Bent toward addiction in my life So much so I mean I was the guy that would be at your parties getting inebriated and my tolerance got so high

Eli I mean I'd slip around a corner stick my finger down my throat gag myself throw up come back to the party keep drinking and this was this was what was going on and so Baseball kept me from absolutely

And utterly destroying myself and God by his grace Saved me

I had a teammate who I played college baseball with who took me to hear an evangelist by the name of Greg Laurie Ended up placing my faith in Christ because my life was loaded up with guilt from all the promiscuity sleeping around with girls

Partying and just my relationship to my parents was so intense and I was desperately in need of purpose and Figuring out a way to get rid of my guilt and Jesus answered all that which was great

But I'd say a life of living according to my feelings and being enslaved to my addictions made

Becoming a Christian really challenging because now I was really disturbed about my actions

I was convicted about them and I found that just because I became a Christian I didn't magically have the ability to turn off the addictions.

So I needed to really Hone in on this so I had several relapses over and over and over again trying to get clean couldn't

Finally, I ended up going to a a in 94 and I did over 400 meetings in that first year of sobriety

And once I got the alcohol and all the permit that that allowed me to get the promiscuity out of my life

And that really allowed my faith to start taking root and started really wanting to tell

Everybody about the freedom that I discovered and so I had a call to ministry and I ended up meeting my wife

Heather We got married. We've been married now 25 years almost with two kids 22 year old daughter who's about to get married in a few months and a 20 year old son and Our life has been focused around pastoring for the most part and Apologetics lots of schooling.

I mean, I literally just finished up Another degree and finally after I don't know 25 30 years.

I think I'm done with that. I Threw I threw my attic brain

Eli into studying and so I've been completely OCDing it for you know a long time.

So that's a little bit of it. Where were you going to school? I just wrapped up a PhD at the

University of Birmingham in England and that philosophy of religion department so I developed an argument from moral guilt and so William Lane Craig studied there and It was just his influence on my life and I wanted to go and Study in that same kind of program and it's actually just phenomenal.

I mean what's happening there? It's number two behind Oxford It's ahead of Cambridge. I mean, it's just a really prestigious

Department and you can even do that PhD program from afar So I had to fly out there about three times, but I was super stoked that I was able to work with my supervisors

Like I'm talking to you right now sure modern technology So so when you got started, did you have more hair and blacker hair?

Is the gray is the gray which by the way, which by the way you are wearing very well People don't notice here.

I have great. I have salt and pepper here, but It looks good on you. But when you got started, did you have the blackness and then it kind of the stress?

Is that how it went? Yeah. Yeah for sure, bro. I uh, I It's funny if you look back to when

I even started one -minute apologists about 10 11 years ago I had a full set of dark hair, but I would say yeah studies just pastoring

Marriage life raising kids. Everything turns you gray man as you get older Well the having three kids of my own that I understand.

I understand for sure All right. Well, that's a super interesting Backstory, I mean you came from a lot of difficulties

I mean when I grew up in church, and so I kind of lived the straight arrow life But I always was fascinated and always wished

I had some dark past that God saved me from you know My pastor back in the day would invite like a missionary and be like I was in the gutter about to die in Jesus You know and here

I am like raising church I was always a goody -goody and I was like my story's boring It's the reality is

God saves us from all different sorts of places and so that's super interesting to hear Yeah, what

God saved you from so so how did the transition work then so you became a Christian? Okay? Was it you fell head over heels in love with Jesus at the moment?

How did that process look in terms of actually getting saved and then moving towards a desire to defend the faith?

You know, yeah it for me It's amazing There's a clear connection to getting rid of Alcohol in my life now that was a real battle

Especially in the early days. I mean the temptations when you're trying to get off of Alcohol when you are dependent upon it.

I mean, it's incredibly difficult back to I left the state of California and I moved to Arkansas halfway across the country to change my people places and play things

Just so that I could be in an environment where I wouldn't be bumping into people that I knew

And it helped me in order to kind of put my life together at that stage

And yeah, I found myself just deepening in my love for him I hated reading before I was a

Christian but I fell in love with reading because I was falling in love with God and if I wanted to know

God I needed to Read and I wanted to know the books of the Bible I wanted to under I was so thirsty like I was your young believer that literally would ask

Mature Christians that I bumped into I I didn't want to talk about everyday life. I wanted to talk about Christ and the

Bible and I probably just overwhelmed people with my questions But if you were apologetically wired you would have loved having me around because I was so hungry to just draw from learning and So I ended up in Arkansas and the way

I got into apologetics wasn't Because I wanted to do apologetics. It really was because I was doing evangelism.

I was sharing the gospel on Campuses I was just going out by myself literally walking up to people cold turkey

Sharing Jesus with 50 to 100 people per week I was I would

I would be calling through the phone book Eli. I had an I had a work Job that allowed me to work in a booth as a security person and when it wasn't busy

They had what is known as white pages back then. Yes I just started calling up the community saying hey, you might think

I'm nuts but my name is Bobby and I'm just calling to see if our

Community knows Jesus and I just wanted to ask you a few questions Like I was so naive man.

Like I was praying through my yearbooks I was I was calling people in the white pages.

I Was going out to campuses. I got thrown out of Walmart. I got thrown off college campuses

I've got people's backyard. So I mean it was really it was it was a lot of fun

But I was so clueless like I didn't like the method was probably horrible.

I just you know, walk it up cold turkey I wasn't building relationships But I wasn't yelling at people.

I just so wanted people to know this Well, they started Stumping me with all these questions.

I had no idea How to answer them and so their questions became my study guide

By which the Holy Spirit began to sanctify me and so, you know by the time

I would go off to Dallas seminary that's where I really started falling in love with the academic life and wanting to grab a hold of apologetics and stuff like that so Hmm so, okay, so I'm curious then so you you walk up to people cold up by the way,

I'm not sure That's a bad method. Of course. You did you did mention something that I think is a key and that is

Forming relationships that is a better method, but you'd be surprised of the power of a cold turkey evangelistic attempt

Because that can catch people off guard because you don't know where people are in their journey That what you randomly say to them might sound random and weird but to a certain person that might be exactly what they needed

So, um, so why don't you explain? I mean, I'm curious here when you walked up to a random person

What did it look like? What did you say? I mean you just hop out of an alleyway like Jesus loves a little bit

Oh Can you can you see me now there can so you wanted me to explain what it looked like when I walked up to a

Random person. Yes. So so did you jump out of an alley and just be like Jesus loves you or What did that look like?

What did you say to them? Yeah. No, I I mean I typically would just walk up and You know,

I feel like if there was one thing that I I had I didn't have confidence like in my

Bible knowledge I had confidence in my people skills I was very popular like as an athlete and as a partier and so I Was confident that I could walk up to people

And leverage just some people skills and just connect with people So I would try to drop their guards immediately and say hey

I know I'm kind of interrupted on on what you guys got going on here And I know you probably think

I'm absolutely nuts and I get it and I but I just want you guys know

I'm so excited about what I've learned and I'm just wondering if I could talk to you guys about your spiritual beliefs and by and large

I would end up in some amazing conversations and I Purposely Eli would use words when

I'm talking to the students as I was a student like a bro or a dude or a stoke

Because I wanted to connect, you know Awesome sauce or the youth the youth master an awesome sauce man.

Yeah freshest death fresh the death Yeah, so I was so we would connect but sometimes

I would have people say get out of here, bro You know like and and that was fine, but I definitely saw several people get converted in that ministry

The problem was as I was sharing the gospel so many people like I wasn't able to really adequately disciple them

And that's where eventually church planting became like a really nice niche because you can do evangelism

But you really have a place to disciple people as well And so I'm this oddball like when

I'm hanging out with apologists Eli at times I think my critique of the apologists would be there.

They're disconnected from the church and They're there and so wanting to see apologists to be churchmen and wanting to see apologists to love

Love missional living and and not just knowing how to formulate all their arguments when

I When I hang out with my pastor friends, I feel the frustration and tension that Apologetics is minimized and that really frustrates me

So I kind of feel like this guy that's been wired like I'm left and right brain like the creative type yet the logical type the head guy the heart guy and so at times

I Find that whichever world I'm in I never feel completely connected because sadly these two worlds have been divorced from one another and I would love to see people get the need of Pulling these two things together like apologists should not be out just doing their things absent from a church and the church should not be

Minimizing the beauty of apologetics. It should come together. And that's really my passion.

I think Regardless of what folks might think of the individual

I'm about to mention, but one thing I did I do appreciate about dr. James White is His connection,

I mean he's he's a debater he's debated I don't know. He's like got a hundred and something and you know debates for Formal debates yet.

He's also out witnessing to Mormons I think that that's pretty cool and he does emphasize a lot the importance of staying connected to a church

Well while doing those things and I know dr. Craig you know teaches the Defenders class and I think and and I think that's that's awesome how you have a world -class scholar

Making sure after he does a lecture or a talk somewhere I need to get back to my church so that I can teach the

Defenders class. I think that's super cool and an awesome example You know to set for people.

So okay, so that's cool And I want to ask you in just a few moments

I suppose I could ask it now, but it might change the direction of the discussion. So let me save the question later

I really want to know when you are engaging with someone on the street and there is an apologetic clash

What does that look like? You know just person to person. It's not like we're typing away on a keyboard or whatever

Let me ask you that first and then we'll get to the typing keyboard online stuff Yeah, when someone says hey, you know, thank you for sharing your thoughts, but I'm not a

Christian I don't believe this stuff Where does the conversation go from there? How have you navigated those sorts of things and what are some of the things that people bring up in your interactions with them?

Well so much of evangelism is intuitive. And so we have to have a sense of when people are you know wanting to get some space and when people are

You know wanting more and so I think that Good just relational common sense goes a long ways in evangelism

So if somebody you know, if you push the door open and they open it go in But if they're not wanting to talk about it respect that so I think that that can go a long ways for You know, so for example the other day

I was out and about Connected with this guy named Seth He Just introduced himself.

He says what do you do for a living? I said, I'm actually a pastor and He found that interesting and he so he wanted to talk a little bit more and then he said, you know

I'm actually a deist I said, okay And so I said, you know, let's just talk about that for a little bit and he said well my problem with Christianity He said is the gospel accounts were recorded hundreds of years after the fact

Now, you know Eli that that's not the case so for many

Christians if they didn't have apologetics It's it's a conversation stopper and you leave thinking man.

Well Well, I'm foolish for believing this or I couldn't give the deist anything and early on in my evangelism

That would have been the case But you know studying apologetics. Here's how that was a tool.

I was able to say well, did you know? Seth that that's not really what is true here

In fact, some scholars would put the entire New Testament dated before 8070 at the very latest early 90s

I said not only that Paul the Apostle in first Corinthians 15 He said about Jesus resurrection some 500 saw him many of which were still alive

So we have amazing eyewitness testimony. And so now the conversation was

Something that you know, he didn't get saved in the moment, but he was like, oh, okay and so we had a great conversation and I ended up inviting him to come to image church where Church that I'm pastoring that I started so that's just one example of how

Apologetics can help you and I think a lot of people unfortunately would have no idea about that kind of detail and We need to be aware of this stuff because people ask questions and their questions should matter

Hmm, very good. I mean, that's that's something we can go That's a topic of an entire show

Look, what are the different things that people have said to you on the street? And how do you kind of on the spot come up with a sufficient answer?

That's that's the whole thing about always being ready I mean we have to be in the word We have to know the foundations of our faith now

What I find very interesting is folks who want to defend the faith and want to have opportunities to share the gospel their prayer

What would all often be something like this dear Lord? Please provide the opportunity to share your truth to a lost world send people into my path and they'll go

Lord I want to be used and all of a sudden the knock on the door comes a Jehovah's Witness and you're like Oh, there's no witness close the windows, but the shades down.

It's like don't open the door Those are the crazy people So we pray for opportunities and then when opportunities when opportunities come we kind of run from them

Which I think is interesting now that said those who are praying for opportunities

Live in a time of opportunity and and the reason for that is the internet which now

I want to transition into Your shift when you went from sharing and evangelizing which

I'm sure you still do when did the shift happen from face to face?

To you know what? I think there's a really Interesting opportunity here in the online world.

When did that happen? How did that all work out for you? Well, the woman an apologist was birthed out of a local church that I was pastoring.

Okay, so I Basically had this idea early on when

YouTube started that. Hey, wouldn't it be cool to kind of just do some short videos where I'm answering questions and so My worship pastor at the time was real help

He said yeah, I'd be cool if you kind of did like a black -and -white setting make it a kind of creative and I felt like Aesthetics is

Lacking a lot in the world of apologetics, especially at that time I mean obviously like Cameron Bertuzzi does an amazing job and you know, we think about just some of the different people like Mike at inspiring philosophy

Will do really good stuff, but when I was starting this I was kind of you know

One of the early trailblazers like in the whole online Apologetics and honestly, you know,

I didn't know what I was getting into. I'm not a tech savvy guy It might look like it only because of the world that people created for me to be in I'm just a talking head.

And so I had a friend Who was basically who's now doing movies like producing movies for the

Kendrick Brothers so the person who designed the background for this is You know, he's directing the movie that's coming out for the

Kendrick Brothers their next big one and so I was fortunate to have this connection and he was so gifted with creativity and He just created this black and white background and he developed the music and some of this stuff

I was about to mention the music I mean, even if even if the title of the video didn't interest me if I were to click and I just hear the music

I'm like, yeah, okay. I'll give it a listen. It's very intriguing. It's like oh, I wonder what they're gonna say I think it looks excellent.

I think it's awesome. But but go ahead. Yeah. Thank you And I'm glad it just kind of looks the same as it always did but You know, our goal is to provide credible answers to curious questions.

So it's kind of like You know, we just want to be the video place that people go to whenever they've got like, you know

Like what got questions is for you know, got questions calm for written questions

We're just trying to do that on video where you can just go and and find stuff So we were at a conference at Southern Evangelical Seminary and we didn't have any idea that it was going to be an interview ministry

There was just a big conference William Lane Craig Dinesh D'Souza Bill Dempsey Peter Kreeft Lots of people were there

Mike Lacona and I started interviewing him and then boom it's just started taking off And at the time

I I didn't know any principles about how to make YouTube work How you're supposed to connect with your audience how often you're supposed to post videos

Why you're supposed to go live with your audience. I broke every rule and so That's why

I think I don't know. I still don't know any of those things Yeah, there are there are rules to the game

Apparently, but yeah totally resonate with that. There are you look at like my friend John McCrae.

What do you mean? You know his channel What makes it do so?

Well, a lot of times is you know, it's current events It's posting two three times a week.

It's trying to go live with your audience like you're doing right now Maybe once a week

Those are the types of things and so another faux pas that I had is

I Went cold for about two years I ended up going through a really dark night of the soul

Went cold and then all of a sudden when you when you go cold. Well, I had all this

I Had all this momentum, but then I went cold and it was like all these subscribers that I had

They just didn't see me doing anything So what can happen is you can have a lot of subs that aren't paying attention to what's going on So it's just kind of a number

And so thankfully I'm so like happy for the success of Cameron Bertuzzi and Mike at aspiring philosophy and John McCray, what do you mean the

Mike winger? They were able to kind of cut they started their stuff later Sure, so they were able to figure out how do you really do this the right way?

So I would have loved to have had that but I was also Serving as a full -time lead pastor of a large church

You know, I was writing books This so this was just something I was doing on the side that was growing and I had no idea what

I had You know in the sense of how to maximize I didn't even know what YouTube really was gonna become sure

Yeah, well, I guess nobody really did no Yeah, so that that's super interesting and and I think it's very encouraging for folks to know

That it is difficult you do you do have to step out in faith and say hey I have a passion for this and I'm just gonna do it the best way that I can and I think a lot of things

When we when we learn about what it takes to do YouTube and to have a platform and to put out quality things

That can be really intimidating for folks and it's kind of like that which intimidates people from sharing their faith

It's kind of like well, I don't know enough, you know, but we have to learn to trust in like fashion I don't know about technology.

So I'm not going to use this platform, which I think is something we don't want We want more people putting stuff out

What do you think is the value the importance of taking ownership of this whole online community like for apologetics?

Why is being online such a vital thing for Christians to do number one and number two?

Why isn't this a good excuse? Okay Well when you argue on you know on in the internet, it really doesn't get anywhere.

So it's useless You know, you kind of get that other that other extreme. How would you say to that? I Don't think it's useless at all for online engagement.

I do think that we could make ourselves Irrelevant to some people if our tone is off if we're coming across arrogant so I do think that it's important for us to maintain a

Humble kind Kind of demeanor and tone when we're dialoguing with people.

I just listened to something yesterday Okay, and what and it was talking about marketing and this guy does

Helps you to do social media in the church and interestingly enough

He before he gets you started with the social media. He helps you to understand that One of the biggest objections that people have

Against Christianity is they don't want to be a part of it because it has a bad reputation

And so he said you could disagree with the things that cause the church to have a bad reputation

Or you can be aware of that and then that can inform your marketing strategy

And so I thought that was really wise For us to be aware of that the church is living in a time where it has a bad reputation

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the the more we have a neo -moral code that has been developed today and no longer

Is it the LGBTQ that needs to be saved and the person struggling with divorce?

The person who had the abortion the person with drugs and alcohol That material that was once used to convict people of their sin to recognize their guilt to turn to God Now the thing that needs to be saved is the

Christian from the church Now the thing that needs to be redeemed is the old moral code and the old moral code needs to embrace this new

Moral flow of things and so we are outdated. We are irrelevant

We have a horrific Reputation as oppressors and we need to be aware of that And so when we go online and if we're mean and beating people up and being harsh

We're just gonna add to people's Kind of arsenal so we have to figure out how to be wise as serpents and Harmless as doves and this is gonna require

Learning how to be wise Conversationalist with the culture that we live in sure.

That's an excellent Explanation there. Um now when we are dealing with things online

It's very different than obviously being face to face with someone So, you know when you're face to face you have that personal connection people will not say certain things that they would have no problem saying online which is

You know all all of that kind of is removed online when you're hiding behind a keyboard

People are you know, they say all sorts of things But when we're interacting with online, you know in the online space

The interaction is often very short How would you give some advice to Christians who are interacting with people on Facebook and kind of short back and forth?

How do you communicate? profound Christian truths in such a short span of time without I Guess being superficial.

Does that make sense? Absolutely So that would be one of the things that people could easily criticize about one -minute apologists, but people have to understand that this is just one piece of the polemical pie and so you know,

I've interviewed many of the world's most well -known apologists and had the privilege of introducing people from my

Platform to their work and so I Obviously would know that, you know, there's more to be said

But I think that it's important that there are these commercial breaks that we give I mean look we all have to know how to say an elevator pitch if you're a

CEO of a company if you're a lead pastor of a church if You're the president of reasonable faith and you're

William Lane Craig and you have just a few moments to describe it That's great.

And so a lot of the discussion points that that we have You know We need to need to realize that it's good to have lots of different tiers for people to get into so I look at our ministry, for example is something that is going to appeal to people who are

Not quite maybe ready to be reading philosophical foundations of a

Christian worldview, but they're they're kind of over the The the ultra seeker watered -down message.

They want something more. And so I want to wet their appetite I want to introduce them and I think if people

And honestly it anybody that would criticize something. I mean again, I have two doctorate degrees

I don't say that to puff myself up. I have a four -year master's degree that's equivalent to Three master's degrees, you know

I mean you can get two ma you can get an MA and STM and an MDiv to equal a THM So all that say somebody could show three mastery.

It's it's still equivalent to the THM It's a beast of a master's degree. Sure. So I'm not saying that in a cocky way.

I'm saying to go I value depth I've spent my life studying depth, but anybody that would think that You need to put down ministries or anybody that wants to do a blog because It's not 300 pages or three hours.

Sure. They're showing they're showing their own ignorance in some ways because you know,

I mean we have we all have to know how to To summarize it's called an abstract, right?

And so if you're doing a PhD thesis You you got to do an abstract of the

PhD thesis and before people will often read the PhD thesis They look at the abstract.

And so I think that people need to realize is that if they have a more brief ministry that they're

Abstracting for people with a goal for them to go into more in -depth. Mm -hmm

And I think that's one of the wonderful things I love about what you've done is every time I watch a video

You make me spend money Man that person had something really interesting to say now

I got to go buy a book. Thanks a lot Bobby, you know Right, but that's the mission accomplished.

I mean you you've taken a one minute and 30 something seconds however long the discussion is and You've just you've connected with the audience in a way that's piqued their interest and now have led them

To read someone they probably never heard of before or now it's like oh this person seems really interesting I want to hear what they have to say in more depth and I think as Kind of your content is a good gateway drug if I can use that language into some more deeper material

Which is what we want to encourage people to do especially skeptics who have perhaps a very superficial understanding of Christianity They listen to an interview that you've done and say, you know what?

I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up that Gary Habermas book this evidence for the resurrection So I think it appeals not only to the

Christian but also to the curious skeptic Which I think is something we could all very much appreciate now.

How would you? encourage someone to Get started, how does someone get started in online apologetics?

That's a very broad question because there's so many different things. I mean YouTube isn't for everyone, you know

There are people they're not very the camera doesn't you know, you know that they get on the camera. They're just like hi

This is my first episode. That's not very you know, they don't they don't connect well on the camera Maybe they want to do something behind the scenes or you know have an

Instagram account where they're putting out, you know materials brief You know audio clips What are some of the options out there for people who want to get involved in online apologetics ministry?

Well, I do think that I would love for example to see the church at large to value apologetics and so how great would it be if You know you had churches starting to put an

Apologetic page with links to the different apologetic ministries that are out there That could be a great thing for somebody that's more behind the scenes

They could use their time helping promote The different ministries that are out there sort of being like the evangelist for the apologist getting the word out because you know, we all appreciate when people share our content or when people

Blurb about it or when people write a review about it So I think that that could be the role that somebody takes if somebody is got gifts that are more behind the scenes

Maybe they're a researcher so they could help research for the apologist or they could do secretarial stuff or admin stuff for people who are gifted

Then they really need to be thinking You know, what's going to be the vision of their ministry?

What's going to be the mission? What's going to be their brand? How are they going to market it? What platforms are they going to be on?

Is it going to be Instagram, Facebook? Is it going to be YouTube? Is it going to be tik -tok?

I mean you're gonna have to really think through what platforms I would advise anybody thinking of starting a kind of a

YouTube ministry To become familiar before you start with things that I was so ignorant of like how often do you need to post?

What makes a good post? Come up with a particular name But whatever you do try to run it through the streamline of current events because people are always

Pursuing current events. That's one of the reasons where like my numbers I've got

I mean, I've got a good crowd, but I don't always hit current events I'm just kind of hitting like the main apologetic issues

I'm confident that if I started another channel and just really focused on current events and hit apologetic issues

That would help but we need to be looking for our niche because there's lots of traffic

Out there and lots of people are trying to do that. So that's gonna mean really thinking of a good niche

So like Elisa Childers has done a really good job. She's hitting progressive Christianity David Wood at Act 17 he hits

Islam And so I think that people would be wise to think about what is the niche?

My teammate just started something on deconstruction. That's a big hot buzzword right now

And so I would invite anybody that's apologetically minded to be thinking ahead.

Like what are the current trends? Where do I think the church is going to be growing? So this is where Neil Shinve started blowing up with this critical race theory and some of these discussions

I don't know if he's got a YouTube channel So it but a YouTube channel on critical theory

Marxism How a culture becomes Marxist, these are the type of things that we need to be thinking about LGBTQ plus just focusing

Exclusively on how to deal with that that will make things better. So I'm much more general and I'm not always doing current events

So I'm kind of putting down my channel a little bit like not to like this channels done great

But I'm helping to understand what? The some of my own limitations and I recognize it the limitation one is it's not completely niche

It is niche from the standpoint of if you want to have a go -to place to get credible answers to curious questions But it could even be more niched if it was progressive

Christianity Sure, just Islam and then it's not as niched because I'm not dealing with just current events

So I would say to people Be mindful then of the aesthetic the look

The frequency by which you post you want to make sure you have guests on So if I was gonna launch a channel now with what

I know, I would come up with a different name I would find a good niche. I would brand it beautifully

I would reach out to my apologetic connections and I would lay out a calendar and a year in advance for Some topics and I would start inviting people on and everything

I do I'd be promoting around that and so it'd really be streamlined. I think that would be something that could help people

Hmm, that's that's super helpful. Now someone here Says that it's it sounds a little like running a business

It is kind of sort of but it's not simply about because the person also follows up What about the how about the gospel now, of course?

Everything we're doing with respect to apologetics and all of the strategy I mean you have to strategize it strat being strategic about getting your information out.

There is not It's not antithetical to focusing on the gospel We are finding strategic ways to get the gospel out there with the specific emphasis upon defending the gospel

So there is a sense in which you want to be quote business mind Did of course not at the expense of the core of our message?

But you want to you want you need to be smart about this if we want to reach people You need to know how to use the tools to reach people.

Am I am I right there? Yeah, I mean Absolutely, it'd just be common sense. It's kind of like we don't want to use like sometimes, you know

You and I talked about will be organic today and I mean, I like the word organic But I don't like the word organic if it means an excuse to not plan.

That's right I don't like the word spirit -led if it means we're just going to just we're not gonna prepare

I prepared a message today, but the spirit is telling me to preach on something else that the last second here

I'm just gonna wing it. Yes, I've heard So now even for example, so sometimes people and again our question

Is rooted in great motive here, and I don't I I do think that that's important like that We're not getting sidetracked, but I would say like you'll get sometimes people

They are against Apologetics and the excuse could be something like look at Paul the

Apostle Paul the Apostle the Holy Spirit sovereignly shows up in Acts chapter 9 and Sweeps him off his feet.

He didn't need objections. He gets saved immediately and I Think that we can use

Paul. Well, what a great example if anybody could have pooh -poohed apologetics

It would have been Paul the Apostle what happens in Acts chapter 17 He's the great apologist operating on Mars Hill He's not presupposing that his salvific experience should be the same way.

It works with everybody else That's still does his homework. And so I think in the same way we would be silly to to say

Well just because we're Christians and we know the gospel that we don't need to understand the way

YouTube works Sure, you know like I mean if in other words if you're gonna be a gamer

And that's technology Well, you could say I'm a gamer and I'm filled with the

Holy Spirit and you could show up and play a world -class gamer and That I don't think that's gonna really help with your odds a whole lot, right?

What's gonna happen to be like play Call of Duty Lord guide my bullets, please headshots headshots

So, yes, exactly That's all I'm saying. So yeah, that is

No, no, I'm glad you mentioned the Apostle Paul there we can we can point to how

God sovereignly Sovereignly saved him but the the the same Paul who was knocked off his horse is the same

Paul who said don't forget my parchments This is the same It's the same Paul who reasoned in the synagogues trying to demonstrate from Scripture that Jesus Christ had to suffer and die

So yeah, they're not antithetical towards one another Looking at apologetics in terms of getting it out with strategy and sort of like a business is not antithetical to Being gospel centered and things like that.

I think that's that's very important. But now now how does one balance though? I mean once your your ministry kind of grows a little it does become very business heavy

If you want to get your stuff out there more How have you been able to or maybe you know folks who have a bigger platform than yourself?

How have you been able to find a balance between yeah doing the apologetics as kind of the back -end business sort of thing, but also keeping the gospel center and Always up keeping your own spiritual formation because that can be difficult for folks

Well, I just think we do need to keep our message on track Like I mean, we still are providing credible answers to curious questions staying true to our motto

But I mean as the ministry grows right and you have a budget and you have people

Contributing to your ministry Well that here's some business side of things So I'm I'm not, you know, you're good gifted financial planner like, you know, you wouldn't want me to be a

CFO Right. So what do I do? Well, I've hired out a group called a bench company and for 18 bucks 1800 bucks a year

They do all of my bookkeeping for me Why do I do that because I want to make sure that we lead this well

Because we're accountable to the to the funds that we have and we want to be good stewards

And I recognize that's not a good gift of mine. So we have I mean, I've got a payroll group

I've got a group called bench co that does our bookkeeping We're 501 c3 because we have to be in compliance with the government.

So sir, I mean These business type of things, I mean you can't get you can't get away from That I mean unless you're just going to you know, keep it at a stay

I mean if the ministry is gonna grow then you're gonna start getting compensated from YouTube. You have to be able to You know track stuff and budget stuff and keep things orderly and if you don't do that Then then you're gonna be accused of just Sloppiness and that's that's not gonna be good.

So even right now, I mean, I'm starting another church You know you you got to get 501 c3.

You you've got to open up a bank account You've got to have bylaws in place if you have people show up They need to know what the vision is

They need to know where they plug in if you have kids ministry You have to have check -in systems and checkout systems and you have to have background checks

Which by the way people say well they didn't worry about those things in Bible times Well Bible times is very different than modern times

Like these are things we have to do by law and the Bible does speak about us Obeying the government and making sure we do things in a way that's honoring to God things like that So we don't change our central message, but we live in a different context.

We do need to be able to Adapt where it's appropriate to adapt and of course stay the same where we need to stay the same

Absolutely. Yeah, so I would just all that we're getting at is Be prepared that if your if your ministry grows you're gonna need some organization and that's what business is, right?

You got to organize things, but that doesn't have to crush the organism. What the church is a body

It's an organism, but the organism needs to be organized and so That's all we're trying to say here.

Sure. Very good I just want to let folks know If you have a question for Bobby or myself You guys can send it in if you preface your question with Q or question

So I could differentiate between your question and the many comments that These videos get we'd love to to take a look at that.

I just recently returned from Charlotte, North Carolina I live in Clayton and I had met with Hank Hanegraaff of the

Christian Research Institute And had the pleasure of sitting down with him and speaking with him for three hours in his office about our differences

On Eastern Orthodoxy, I'm a reformed Christian So we had an awesome an awesome discussion there

But what I did realize is that he gave me a tour around the ministry and I realized how much work

The stuff you don't see that occurs in the background to make a ministry function

Gave me an appreciation for the many different pieces that are involved in The finished product and and and that kind of got me back to what you were saying

Is that maybe maybe you you know, you don't want to do the YouTube stuff But you're good at something else and kind of contributing your giftings to someone else who's going to be doing those things

So so doing apologetics online is not necessarily getting in front of a camera and talking It's helping someone who does that well with your specific gifts because what you just said right there the church is an organism

I think if we can use those biblical categories, we need to understand ourselves as a body part within the broader body

So I just want to encourage folks, you know, you don't need to be in front of the camera Anyway, you can support apologetics ministries and whatever gift things that you have.

I think that's that's something we should all consider All right. Well As we're waiting for some questions, if there are any questions, we'll take them

I want to ask a little bit more of a personal a personal question and don't worry. It's not too personal You know, he's like what did

I get myself into? Not But someone who is as busy as you are,

I mean, you're a pastor you plant churches You do stuff like this. You have your own your own content.

How do you balance? Ministry personal study

All of the different meetings and engagements here you're involved in and your spiritual life How does that balancing act work for you?

Because that looks like it requires a miracle in and of itself Yeah, so why don't you share that with us well

That's tough. And I I haven't always done that. Well Eli What happened earlier on when

I was pastoring a church that was growing and woman apologists started and started getting national

Recognition then I started writing books and I started saying yes to opportunities and I didn't realize how much

I was burning out and You know because what can happen is as Christians we can be saying yes to good things but it could burn us out and all of us have a capacity all of us have a lid and sometimes

I feel like Man, Lord, I wish that I wasn't such a sleepy guy, right?

Like I need it. I feel like I need a nap about three o 'clock every day Oh, that's so encouraging because I feel like I'm always tired.

I'm like because I'm lazy. It's like this is good to hear Okay, you're tired. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah,

I have Gilbert syndrome Which is it kind of an immunity disease doesn't affect you at all except I think it just makes your blood cell count lower

And so, okay, you can feel a little bit tired at times not only that What happened was is when

I ended up in taking on too much in my life, I mean there was one year I was working on a PhD Pastoring a growing church.

I Wrote two books and I think we produced over a hundred videos and I was speaking around the country for family life marriage conferences

And I was dying I ended up going into a dark night of the soul. I wasn't taking care of myself.

I Mean long story story short. I know what it was like to burn out. I mean, I ended up on an antidepressant

I had a relapse after nearly 23 years without a sip of alcohol and I had to renegotiate my faith stance and really reset my life and Figure out what my no filter is gonna be what am

I saying yes to and the more defined we can get in our life about our mission and What we're about then we can know what we need to say no to and then what we're saying

Yes to and that can really help us because I think earlier on I was saying yes to things pastor

Yes to things writing. Yes to YouTube. Yes to speaking. Yes to PhD and I'm thankful that God spared me through that difficult time because he's so good and he's so gracious That he was able to help me to to recognize my need to slow down and I resigned from my last church after that because I just needed to pull away and Think and my family and I we moved off to California where I grew up Had the most wonderful couple years of healing family time bonding and got a renewed passion for ministry

But before we started this church, I said, honey, I know how to burn out I know what it looks like to take too much on I mean, you know

I still have regrets of looking at pictures of my kids when they were three and five Because I was

I did a I did the four -year THM at Dallas seminary in a one -year residency five years of stuff in three and a half years

I did over a hundred and two hours of Master's level work in two and a half years, but you know what that was a cost

I don't say that like isn't it? You know because somebody paid and who paid was my wife and my kids because every day

You know, you're studying 16 hours a day even on the weekends and you know

I take a break at dinnertime to be with my wife and kids and I still see pictures and I go man I was so detached.

I wish that I would have Recognized that education is not the most important thing in this world

It's loving Jesus and it's loving people in particular those people that he's put in my care my wife and kids yeah, wow,

I think that's That's very powerful because that's something I personally struggle with is

I mean if people don't see it here They kind of just see the you know, we're both on the screen here But sure,

I I have six or seven books underneath my my laptop here I have nine books that are holding up a light.

I've got a bunch of books in the background here My life is a constant balance of studying

YouTube work Family and I love studying it's I you know,

I want to do I want to further my education but there is this level of detachment that that's come constantly battling and Because my mind wants to be here and investigate all this interesting stuff

My mind is not where it should be and so I that's a very encouraging thing You just said there where it's important, but it's it's not that important at the end of the day

Yeah, you know the thing about apologetics is it can especially if somebody has

OCD tendencies, okay and Like I ended up in a horrific bout with doubt and I said the worst kind of doubters are what

I call the obsessive Analyzers and that's somebody who's analytical yet.

They got some OCD tendencies So you can get people who are obsessive, but they don't obsess on reading you can get people that are analytical

But they know how to detach The obsessive analyzer can struggle unlocking and I think that there could become this obsessive

Relationship with our studies as apologists that if we're not careful We can just get it like I literally had to get rid of my books because I would look and I'd be like, oh man

I haven't read that one in a while and it was like an ADD experience in my books I'd sit around my books and it would just Overwhelming like I need oh

I got it I got a freshen up on this topic and I got to read this and I got to read this and I had to clear the space because when we're finite the project of trying to become omniscient will

Overwhelm us all and no apologist is omniscient And so the quicker we realize that and just celebrate our finitude

The more we can get about loving on our wife and kids who are more than just paper

But they are life and they're organic and they are long to be hugged and loved by us

And I'm so thankful that God opened my eyes while I've missed some of it and I admit it

I want to help others to not and I'm looking forward to being a good grandpa someday and just trying to be as present as I can right now as a husband and a dad

He's like come come here, sonny Did you ever read this is It's like it's store.

It's story time with with grandpa Bobby. Our story for the day is pushing the antithesis and I'm just The categorical imperative and Your life or the teleological suspension of the ethical narrative.

I just want Goldilocks, please. Thank you That's awesome

Vitzgenstein Goldilocks and the three philosophers we could do this all day

All right. Well, wow that that was that was super helpful And I think that's a great way to transition into some of the question

We have a couple of questions here and that's fine If you if you guys have any more questions, feel free to send them in if not, no worries

I do appreciate all of the comments and activity in the comments there, but let's go through some of the questions here

There was one up here and I do apologize if I miss anybody but someone asked

Bobby, let me see here This requires me to scroll down really quick.

Oh Yeah, so Simon Simon asks. Have you been to Norway? Do you have experience with apologetic ministry in Europe?

So I suppose doing apologetics here in the States can be quite a different animal than doing it in Europe Uh, you want to speak to that?

Yeah, I'd imagine so I haven't been in Norway But yeah, I've been over to Europe on different occasions in different parts of Europe But not as a resident, so I wouldn't feel comfortable

Speaking into what it's like to be a resident I would say that you know

What's happening here in America? I know that Norway Sweden you know, there's parts of Europe Western Europe in particular that has become

Incredibly liberal and I think that anybody watching what's happening in America We can just tell we're probably scrambling with some of the same issues

Sure, and so because I pay attention to to news and stuff like that I I think that the apologetic issues that are are a challenge obviously in Norway Are going to be on some of these identity issues and as it relates to the

LGBTQ Helping the church to not slip into progressive

Christianity and things of like manner Hmm. All right. Thank you for that. I know dr.

Craig has expressed really the different contextual Considerations with regards to doing apologetics in Europe It's much more difficult because of the intellectual backdrop of Europe with the secularization the spread of Islam There are just certain parts of the world where it's more difficult to share the faith

So yeah, so so there are a bunch of different factors there Okay. Thank you so much

Simon now before I ask the next question here. It's the last question here. It's perfect We're right at the top of the hour. I don't know how much you know about my channel

Bobby But I like to focus on apologetics generally So I have folks who come from a bunch of different apologetical backgrounds, but I do primarily focus on a presuppositional approach

I'm a presuppositional list. I do promote that I teach that but I love apologetics in general and I really appreciate

You know our evidential brothers classical brothers. There's so much Good that we could all learn from each other that said, you know, someone is asking what you think about presuppositional ism now before you answer

I'd like you to be perfectly blunt and honest. We're not gonna debate here. That's not the purpose here But what

I do appreciate is folks who and I don't know where you stand But folks who tend to be critical of presuppositional ism

I appreciate because they bring up issues that give me another thing to look into because as I promote

Apologetics in general and presupp more specifically. I like to make sure that I Understand some of the issues that other

Christians have with it like, you know what? That's a great point Let me think about that So feel free as free as you want to share your criticisms if there are any if it's minor fine

But all that to preempt the question. So so the question here by Isaiah was what does Bobby think about presupp?

You know the funny thing as it relates to presupp classical evidential

All of that. I really I Really love just the kind of integrative approach to apologetics.

And so On one side of things, I mean I do presuppose

Christianity is true and that these other worldviews have Something broken in them by which it's our job that we can show how it doesn't cohere and how

Christianity better coheres and So I like that and and I and I resonate with that.

I don't know exactly How I would describe my own

Apologetic stance and that's because I've been trained classically but I love like the book that I read by Ken Boa on apologetics and he really talks about the integrative approach and For him.

He just saw such value in these different streams and a lot of times

That's my personality Anyway, like I sure some reason I'm non -denominational I can see value in these different streams

I I can almost look at like I'm not somebody who'd likes to get put in a particular camp

So here I'm a guy right? I've been to Dallas Seminary and Southern Evangelical Seminary and my

Bible College As well in Conway, Arkansas. They were all like your pre -trip.

Well, I Naturally going to be thinking against I don't like to be put in a box.

So I'm not a preacher I'm not a pre -tripper. I don't but I don't know what I am But I like that.

I went through to those schools and I just come out. I'm not a preacher I go, I don't know that I'm just a pure classical apologist though I've studied

I'm not a I wouldn't describe myself as a Thomas and I went to SES Sure, and so I in a lot of ways for me

Maybe the way that I'm speaking is I committed to to doctrinal

Positions Eli early on in my faith prematurely and consequently,

I would later have the Doctrinal positions that I held you blown up because I read another alternative position that happened enough in my life

Where I realized that By committing to positions prematurely.

I might be setting myself up to have a crisis of faith down the road Okay, so I'm more inclined to hold off on coming to a

Tight position. So my approach is an early apologist. I I was obsessed in my studies about knowing

What camp I was on every position so I used to be a five -point

Calvinist Now I describe myself as a Confucianist, okay Yeah, that's really good but I mean

I was thoroughly if I bred I mean I I know I know the doctrine I mean I was

I was truly a five -point Calvinist. Sure. I was a preacher guy at one time Now, I'm not sure.

I just believe he's coming again I was a young earther now, I'm an old earther, but I don't know which position of old earth

So now in some ways it's funny I was this guy that wanted to know all my positions and now

I just want to know like what's orthodox Like and I want to stay there.

And so I've said this many times for some people want to be as conservative as Conservative as they can be about their conservatism

I want to be as a liberal as I can be about my conservatism without slipping into heresy

When you're as conservative as you can be about your conservatism you inevitably alienate someone

But when you're as liberal as you can be about your conservatism without slipping into heresy

Then you're welcoming and you're holding the mere Christianity And so I think that I could have see here's the funny like even the

Genesis 6 the sons of God daughters of men Man, I have held the different viewpoints on that and it's kind of like now

I go I'm just not sure I could talk to you about all three main positions and you might convince me to kind of hold to the fact that you know that these are the descendants of you know, literally a hybrid between the sure fallen angels, but I Get a little time.

It's always see some questions that I receive when I when I do Q &A. They're very Specific.

Yeah, but but there's always there's always whether it's Text in on the screen or a rolled up piece of paper.

It's always what about the Nephilim? People are super interested super interested in they are that's funny.

Well, well, thank you very much for that. That's very that's very helpful Yeah, I'm for folks who are interested in what

I believe I'm actually going to be doing a live stream I don't know when I'm gonna schedule but it's it's literally gonna be entitled everything

I believe so I'm literally just gonna talk About my position on everything and some of my positions include what you've just expressed is and my position on this is

I don't know You know, and by the way, there's nothing wrong with saying I don't know, you know I'm I'm a convinced five -point

Calvinist But I I and I'm and there are some areas where I'm kind of like I don't know where I stand Young earth and old earth creationism.

I had I moderate a discussion between Jason Lyle youngers young earth Astrophysicist and Hugh Ross old earth astrophysicist and I'm like man.

This is a topic that I'm interested in I don't know where I stand, but I respect Jason Lyle. I respect Hugh Ross Go ahead you talk and I'll just watch and we'll see where I end up at the end of the day

So, yeah, it's okay to not be sure on some of these topics That's relieving, isn't it?

Yes, it is. It is relieving I'm actually okay when someone says are you a young earth or older before it bothered me?

But now I'm kind of just like I don't know and I'm okay with that Yeah All right, and we have another question here.

So Toto Bear Mundo, okay, and I guess that's the name there

Question arguing with atheists online can get heated and I feel like I'm doing it in the flesh sometimes and not in the spirit

I always give the gospel Ray Comfort style in the end though. What are your thoughts on Ray Comfort's approach to?

evangelism and things like that You know, I love Ray Comfort's heart to share the gospel

I mean the guys out there sharing in Southern, California at the pier all the time just talking to people about Jesus So, I mean,

I really admire that I mean one of the things that he likes to do is start with the law And then just show how we're all lawbreakers

And then come to grace, you know, like so if any one of you Is you know perfect in all his ways yet, you know broken one law you're guilty

Uh for breaking it all and so that's kind of just a paraphrase of James 2 10. Sure I don't like starting with With the bad news first Eli.

Okay, because I do think it raises a um You know when you start with the bad news right off the bat, uh, it's hard to build a friendship uh, you know, it's like you walk up to somebody and well

If you've admitted this and you've admitted this and you've been this and you're a lying thief adulterer

And i'm going hi. My name is Bobby by the way. Yeah, my name is Bobby by the way Yeah, it's like I'm, not trying to water the gospel down.

I just let me let me say that biblically. I think the approach that I like better um

Okay One second. Eli. I gotta grab. Um a charger because we're gonna die.

So I'm gonna charge No worries. No worries. Just talk to someone for a second. I'll tell I'll tell I'll tell a joke.

Okay All right, guys, what do you get when you cross a jehovah's witness with an atheist? I'm just kidding.

I don't know. That's not a real joke. Well, maybe it is a joke I think I've heard that somewhere. All right. Well at any rate, um, so if folks are interested, um, as I said before Um, i'm going to do a live stream in the near future where I just discuss all of my different views

So i'm going to talk about my views of creation soteriology, you know doctrine of salvation

My views on baptism why I hold it, you know, my apologetic methodology. We'll talk a little bit about that Um my eschatology some people ask me about what what do you you know,

I just received a question from Uh a former student of mine what I thought about the you know The seals of revelation and what

I think about all those things so i'm going to take an entire episode to kind of unpack What I believe about everything and why and some areas where i'm undecided so I think bobby made a good point there

It is quite okay to um, just simply say I don't know with respect to Some topic and be careful by the way, there are some people

Who like to pick on the fact? That we are unsure of certain things and so they try to make connections

Well, if you're unsure about this Then that means you have to believe this over here and then that over there and that's heresy and people try to make all these connections there's nothing wrong with struggling with forming your belief on various topics the

The study of systematic theology is not an easy task. And so it does take time and thought and I think um

With regards to of course, we don't want to fall into heresy But we do want to respect people's journey in terms of their their study and how they learn these things

Okay, and if you have some insight to to show someone who's in that journey, you know, go for it But we want to be patient and loving towards one another while at the same time not compromising the essentials

All right. So I think uh, bobby is back with us and uh, how's it going? Did you get that all worked out?

Yeah, I just didn't want to Fiddle fizzle out on you No, anyway, yeah, we were talking about uh, just ray comfort style so I sure to me i'd rather start

Uh, and I use the the process of the bible, right? So what's the story of the bible creation? fall redemption restoration

Right. So I would I would rather say Did you know because? a lot of people we're we're having

So much discussion around identity politics and our identity In fact as even as it relates to sexuality like if we're going to connect with the the homosexual community

Well, if you believe your identity is your sexual preferences Uh, then the only way that they're going to feel accepted is if we accept their identity

As homosexual, but if we realize their identity is so much bigger than that that they're created in the image of god and so like the culture is offering the lgbtq an

Reductionistic view of sexuality that limits their identity to their sexual preferences

And I think that we can start by the good news by saying, you know The story of the bible is this that we were created in god's image

And we were originally created like good like this was a good thing And so instead of like starting off with your a filthy rotten sinner start with how it originally started

Like that was god. That's how that's how us calvinists start Yeah, that's right, you know, you're totally depraved but there's good news.

My name is jeff, you know, yeah, yeah, but you're yeah exactly so I think it's very biblical just to start and say hey, you know what we were created with god's good intent for us to live

And enjoy his life but because We wanted something that he permitted for us

Uh, we ended up having an assuming a fallen nature And now our identity is distorted and because we have a distorted identity and we don't realize our identity is created

In the image of god, we try to find our fulfillment through sex through drugs through materialism through position through beauty

Through popularity through fame and then I just try to show how all those things

End up in basically the not category. They don't let give you fulfillment

And so if you can talk about god originally created things good, but because of human rebellion we experienced a fall

But then yet god still loves us and wants us to know the good He came to redeem us in jesus and all that that redemption's not only for getting us to heaven

He wants us to restore all things and he wants us to know our purpose Here now and forever and so I think there's a more of an approach like that.

That's got tons of good It's like good news Bad news, but good news is coming and good news for you.

If you'll be using ultimate good news And I think that that could feel Uplifting and it's not compromising at all.

I mean Jesus did die for our sins, but there's such an emphasis on that And I think that we're more than just totally depraved from that standpoint.

We're still Created an image of god we can still reflect god's image in a broken manner

Because we're his image bearers, so i'm not surprised if I see an atheist or a non -believer you know care about People because they still have the image of god.

They just fail to give god the glory for it. Sure. Sure Now so so two essential pillars of the gospel

I would say is the law and the gospel but you would say um, you would agree with that, of course, but um But you would have no problem and I I wouldn't see a problem with this either

Is finding strategic ways to use them interchangeably chronologically you don't always have to start with law necessarily

You could start with gospel and then get to the issue of sin Or you could in certain contexts start with the issue of sin and get to the good news

So it's really just being flexible with respect to how you engage people depending where the conversation is going and how it begins

Do you find that depending on who you're speaking with that kind of dictates the order of emphasis there for you?

Yeah, I mean I think what what ray comfort is doing is great I just think that there's one step beforehand before just getting right to the law

Help people understand that there was a god who created us and he put a law in place in the garden

You can eat of everything but don't eat that that was a law And we broke that law and then later on he established a law

So I think it's fine to talk about that. But really that god didn't originally

Intend for that to happen for us. I mean obviously he knew that it was but I think that we can

I think that we can We just need to be wise about where our culture is Uh as well, and we don't need to we don't need to water the gospel down But we just need to be as effective on the approach and I think some of the old school evangelism

We have to for example It there was a time where culture shared with the church the same values

So the culture leaved like homosexuality was wrong or that abortion was wrong Or the divorce was wrong or adultery was wrong or drugs are wrong.

Well now the culture has legalized All the things that they once said were wrong

And so the way the moral trajectory works is like this at one time the culture rejects something

But then it tolerates it And then it begins to accept it

And then it celebrates it And then it rejects you if you don't jump on board and you can take all those issues like you could take

Homosexuality the culture used to reject it then they tolerated it then they accepted it Then they celebrate it and now they're going to reject you if you don't accept what they want to reject it and so in other words

How then if we're not aware of where our culture is as and and it's weird in a weird shift

Like you would think that there's a lot of moral relativism and there is but there's also a new moral absolute that that has emerged and that new moral absolute is

All about you know lgbtq black lives matters. It's all this stuff and if you don't fall in line with that well

The difference between this is it's law you get canceled. There is no grace The only thing you can do is accept that narrative

Or be canceled And so that's why many people don't want to share the gospel They're they think man.

I don't want to accept this and I don't want to get canceled So how am I going to be a voice in this culture?

And I think if you just go right out and just say well This is sin and this is sin and this is sin I think that we have to be aware of where they're at that they think that we're bigots for our beliefs

So we have to have some thought and it's going to require churches to start equipping people in apologetics and worldview and thoughtfulness

So that we can know how to interact with this landscape that we live in. Hmm. That's excellent. Uh, bj

Bj says well i've only heard elise or elise I've only heard what is it?

I've only ever heard eli or seen his pictures and he always looks so baby face But here he's got that scruffy look now.

Come on. I don't look scruffy I would like to think I maintain the baby face with the facial hair.

So thanks a lot bj. All right Anyway, I had to put that up there. I've never been called scruffy before so But by the way, bob, uh, bobby, do you do you know how old

I am? How old do I look to you? I think that you are probably Like the 30 year old that looks gray 30 just i'm i'm 38.

I'm gonna be 39 next month. So Look at that. I look so I do let's see even with the facial hair

He thinks I he thought I was younger. So I won't ask you a nice black beard man, but i'm gray

And 48 and I can't just uh, I can't grow your 48 Yeah, i'm 48.

Oh, well, you look good for 48 man. Thanks, bro Well, thank you very much.

All right one last question then we'll wrap things up here um, isaiah asks, uh, do atheists exist and I think the foundation of this question really is getting to the um,

The idea of perhaps what is your view with respect to man's innate knowledge of god? So do you believe that man, um men have innate knowledge of god so that on the one hand we can say generally speaking

There are atheists but deep down there is a kind of knowledge within man So in that other sense, there really aren't any atheists.

What's your view on that? Well, I know psalm 14 like the fool says in heart in his own heart that god doesn't exist or that there is no god um so I would say

Biblically speaking that would tell us that it's foolish to not acknowledge god Obviously when we look in romans 1, uh in psalm 19

It seems clear that the evidence of god has been manifested uh, but are there true atheists, uh, that's

That's I I would tend to think that a richard dawkins uh sees himself as a true atheist that I think that Um, you could deceive yourself to the point

In life, that's the thing about deception it Deception is so powerful that Though at its worst it'll make you an atheist

Okay, thank you for that. And if anyone's interested, uh, greg bonson actually for folks who watch this show

They'll know who greg bonson is greg bonson. Greg bonson actually wrote his dissertation his phd dissertation

On the apologetic implications of self -deception. So he actually talks about that very point that you're making and shows

Um that in one sense, uh, all men know god, so there are no atheists in that ultimate sense

However, there is a kind of self -deception going on in which they believe the lie they tell themselves

So that's very interesting if folks want to take a look at that I think you could download it on kindle or something like that Yeah, so whether or not they've always believed that I do think that it's just kind of like the hardening of the heart, you know

And I think that that's what can happen but I don't I I don't know that anybody was just always 100 percent an atheist and could just make an argument that oh

I never could see it. I don't believe sure that sure we because the bible says also That everyone's going to be without excuse

And so if somebody could play the card of just being purely atheist had no idea

It would seem like they would be able to have an excuse and so on one side.

I would say Yeah, I do I think they're atheists I do but I think that they've Deceived themselves into their atheism because that's what they wanted to believe and they got it

Excellent. Thank you so much. Well, bobby. This has been an excellent conversation I think we touched a bunch of different points that I think folks will find, uh, super helpful where where can folks find you?

Um, you got a website blog. Yeah, one minute apologist .com Okay.

Well, that's easy and then one minute apologist on youtube So, that's right If you aren't subscribed,

I would encourage folks to subscribe Uh, they're awesome quick little clips there that you really do get some nice content just in that amazing

You could actually go pretty deep in just one minute depending on the question So folks definitely want to check that out.

Also if you haven't subscribed to revealed apologetics Um, please do so click the like notification bell got a lot of great interviews and topics videos, uh coming out in the future

So thank you so much guys for your questions. Thank you for listening Thank you bobby for joining me here in this interview.