December 5, 2017 Show with Kurt M. Smith on “Thundering the Word: The Life, Ministry & Gospel of George Whitfield” (Part 2)

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This is Chris Arns and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this fifth day of December 2017. I'm delighted to have a returning guest today who I really thoroughly enjoy interviewing every time he's on.

His name is Kurt M. Smith, and he's an author and he is the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. We are once again discussing the life of George Whitefield, in fact, we are titling this interview today, Thundering the Word, the Life, Ministry, and Gospel of George Whitefield, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for part two of this discussion to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Kurt M. Smith.

Thank you, Chris. Thank you very much, brother. It's always good to have you on, and if you could, once again, because of the fact that we have people joining our audience, it seems, every single day for the very first time, and they may not have heard you on the program before, tell our listeners something about Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama.

Reformed Baptist Church.

Is a newly established Lord. Well, praise God, and for anybody out there who is either going to be.

Visiting the Alabama area near Pine Mountain, or if you already live there, or if you have friends and family there, you can go to prbc1689 .org, p-r for Providence Reformed, b-c for 1689 .org, p-b-r-c 1689 .org, and just for our listeners who may be wondering why a Baptist church would have some kind of a confession that is a man-written creed or confession, it's something that is not a part of the canon of scripture, they may be wondering why on earth do Bible-believing Baptists need this?

Well, this is just a summary of what we as Reformed Baptists believe that the Bible teaches. This is not a compilation of traditions invented by men,.

Am I correct? Yeah, that is correct. I think that was Alexander Campbell, wasn't it? Oh, thank you.

David Campbell was my former pastor.

Who now, who now, who's in here with that category?

David, David, David is now pastoring in northern England, but he was pastoring here for about 15 years at Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, and I had the blessing to have him as my pastor. For, I guess it was over four years, and now I am very blessed to have John Miller.

As our new pastor. So, but anyway, that's a slide. Yeah, yeah, but you guys are very.

Graced here at Grace Baptist. Oh, praise God. Well, he should be, he should have been in here.

Today co-hosting the show with me, but I know he's very busy right now. Right, yes, and I have many.

Friends in the Church of Christ who count the restoration movement as their heritage, and, but I can say that I was in a Church of Christ congregation once for a Bible conference, and the speaker was speaking about that very same thing.

We in the Churches of Christ do not have any creed or confession but the Bible, and I held up a tract that I got from their lobby, and I said, just out of curiosity, I wanted to read something here from something I found in your lobby.

It says, this congregation is a Church of Christ. Our ministers do not wear clerical garments or robes. They wear business suits. We only use acapella worship during the services, and we celebrate the Lord's Supper every week, and we baptize only believers by immersion only for the remission of sins, and I said, do you realize that this is your creed?

This is a confession. I don't remember there being much of a response other than a perhaps a nervous chuckle, and well, let's move on. But anyway, I'm sorry, I don't mean to make fun of my friends in that.

Group, but I just, it's a true story. What can I tell you? And in this litigious society that we.

Are living in, where Christians are being sued, in fact the Supreme Court, as you know, or may know, the Supreme Court is hearing arguments today in regard to the now infamous gay wedding cake controversy, where a baker was sued because he refused to make a specifically gay wedding cake for customers of his that would have made it evident that he was joining in on their celebration in some way, even if he was being paid for it.

And this is a scary world that we're living in, and having a confession of faith at least will further protect local congregations when people are joining themselves to those congregations. Hey, you knew when you joined this congregation what we believed, it's in our confession and our guidelines, and obviously we would in this day and age have to add to our constitution anyway, if we don't have some kind of an amended version of the 1689 London Baptist Confession.

We should be including that marriage is a sacred act that involves one man and one woman pledging before God to be united for the rest of their lives, and it's crazy that we would have to even consider.

The necessity of adding that today, but it's scary. Yeah, it is remarkable. And this is also the.

Byproduct of churches, even evangelical churches, caving in to the whims and demands of the secular society, where we bend our statements of faith and our worship and all kinds of things to accommodate the world, where we buy into the lie that it is more important to spare the feelings of lost people than to be compassionate towards them, that they might repent and be spared of not only the earthly consequences of their sin, but also eternal torment.

But anyway, that's a crazy, crazy world.

Wow. And in every... Wow, are you talking about just literary, or are you talking about like woodcuts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One could purchase guidebooks to increase the social... Wow. The people that read...

Oh my goodness. Oh, wow. One contemporary of that... English people, what they never were before, and inhuman. But if it was largely... Right. I think, by the way,.

This is a lesson. I know this is not our topic today, but this is a lesson, I think a very powerful lesson for all of our Reformed brethren. And I am not saying that there is no Christian liberty to moderately imbibe in alcoholic beverages, but the way that many of our Reformed brethren flaunt that liberty, and I think cross the line on that liberty.

I think that this is a, it should be a wake-up call to that kind of attitude towards alcohol.

Christ's love for the soul is eat again. I will not eat meat for the sake... Needs to be first in all of our liberties... Amen. And I think that there are certain people.

Like myself who should never touch alcohol again, because I had a serious problem with it. I had a serious addiction to it. So obviously, someone like myself, it'd be very stupid to even casually.

Or moderately touch it. Amen. So this is the atmosphere out of which Whitfield emerges on.

The scene. And I know that you are in the process, in fact, you are almost finished writing a book on Whitfield. And could you tell us the title? Is our title today close to the.

Title of the book? Yeah, it is. Right. Yeah, Dalamore, right? Thinking of... Great. If you.

Could summarize what we began this conversation with the last time you were on, give us a brief summary overview of Whitfield, and then we'll move on to the uncharted territory in regard to.

Discussions on this program. Okay. Yes, in fact, a dear friend of mine who is now with the Lord.

For eternity, Al Stein, he was, believe it or not, an Assembly of God or Assemblies of God pastor who I knew before he became a Calvinist. And then over the years, he became a thoroughgoing five-point Calvinist and was not only a pastor in the Assemblies of God, but a bishop, an overseer.

And he had this, he loved George Whitfield. And before he went home to the Lord, he had the opportunity of standing behind Whitfield's pulpit and had a photograph of himself standing there, which was precious to see.

But anyway, I'm sorry, I digress. I like that kind of...

George Whitefield’s Ministry and Extraordinary Reach

Industry would last over a span of 34 years. When he died in 17, 18 ,000 sermons, averaging 60 hours a week in this labor. It has been estimated that during his ministry, he preached to combined audiences of over 10 million, and that Fort Forger to New Hampshire heard him at least once, which could not be said of any other person at that time.

In his travels, he would not only cover all of England and Wales, but he would journey to Scotland 15 times, Ireland twice, Holland once, Gibraltar, and Bermuda with attempts to reach Canada and the West Indies.

And of course, premature aging and the onset of...

Wow. Now, he and John Wesley, his Armenian counterpart in that day and age, who were very... They had a very unusual relationship because they were very close friends, but at the same time, they were theological rivals and had very heated exchanges on their differences on the doctrines of sovereign grace.

But would you consider Whitfield a Methodist as John Wesley was? Because I know that there were Calvinist Methodists. In fact, even as recently as the 20th century, Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones, many would recognize that name from the 20th century, he was a Calvinist Methodist.

And there are other people that that name or that way of describing oneself seems to have disappeared from popularity. But could you tell us,.

Was Whitfield a Calvinist Methodist? Yeah, absolutely. Three. Wow. Now, in regards to Wesley, in correlation with Methodist Association is that in 1748, he was continually grieved over the division suffered between he and the Wesley brother, not to mention, and so would never be united.

He determined to relinquish his place and position as the leader of his Methodist society. That is one act on Wesley.

Wow. Okay. And look, we're going to have you pick right up where you left off on that. When we, when we return from our first break, if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.

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So we look forward to hearing from you and your questions. And we also look forward to the continuation of our interview with Kurt M. Smith on the thundering, on thundering the word, the life and ministry and gospel of George Whitfield.

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But thank you very much, Todd and Patty Jennings, for your faithful support of Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Well, we're now back to our discussion. This is part two of Thundering the Word, the Life, Ministry, and Gospel of George Whitefield.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Before we return to anything that you have to say to follow up on what you were saying before the break, I do have a listener in Slovenia, Joe in Slovenia, who says, while researching George Whitefield recently, I came across a source that recognized him as the greatest preacher that England has ever produced.

However, he spent little time formally preparing sermons. Whitefield's secretary is quoted as saying, I believe he knew nothing about such a kind of exercise. Brother Smith, does your research confirm this?

If so, what is your understanding of the explanation of this? Was Whitefield so knowledgeable in the scriptures that he didn't need to study and prepare? Was he such a, was he such a powerful extemporaneous speaker that he didn't need prior preparation of manuscripts or even notes?

Did he essentially re-preach the same few messages over and over? Was it a combination of these and or other factors? In your estimation, how does Whitefield compare to Spurgeon as a preacher? Thank you for sharing your insights.

I pray the Lord has.

Another Whitefield for our nation soon. Very, very, very, very, very thought provoking. George Whitefield, a full, full manuscript, but what he would, what he would end up and, and this would mean he was converted and yet by 1730, he was already having people thronging to hear him preach the gospel.

And, and he was ended up preaching five a week. And he prepared but he also, therefore, when he preached, well, he, he preached extemporaneously, that is without notes, but he preached sermons that he had memorized.

In fact, Thomas Kidd in, in his biography on Whitefield, he said often repeated memorized sermons were a preaching. As he gained experience, he could also respond on the fly to it. He did not know what he would say and pick texts and biblical stories based on the feel of the moment and massively gifted, extraordinarily gifted as a preacher.

He was a voracious reader. He had a fantastic memory. So he could, he could retain, and he was constantly, you know, the word, I mean, he was a very, every morning and from four to after five, he would be in the word, privately devotion.

And then by six o 'clock in the morning, he's out into the open fields, preaching, but he was in bed. And so he, so he lived a strongly self-disciplined, never excessive kind of a life. And therefore, you know, in, in his later years, he wasn't, you know, he wasn't preparing like I would have to, he had accumulated so many sermons in his earlier years, and he had memorized them.

He had retained them word for word that he would, he would preach and re-preach those sermons. But, but also too, wherever he was in the search in certain situations, he, he would, he would, he would be very engaging when he was preaching to, to know, you know, what, what point or what part of this sermon needed greater emphasis, you know, a greater accent.

Well, thank you. That would be my answer.

Thank you, Joe, in Slovenia, and keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Slovenia and beyond. Well, if you want to pick up right where you left off before the break.

Yeah, 1948, his place and position in Italy, pleaded with him not to fade from the scene, as it were. They wanted him to retain his position, increase his party, continue the prominence of his name, wear his heart in making the decision that he did, which would, which would, as I said, it would permit John Wesley to emerge as the single head of Methodist, many Christians, if they know anything about the Methodist church, they'll always link it to John Wesley.

It really wasn't. He turned that all over to really know what, what feels hard in this. In a letter to a friend in 1948, this is what he wrote. He said, never mind me. Let my name die everywhere. Let even my friends forgive me.

If by that means the cause of the blessed Jesus be promoted. In 1949, he said, you judge right when you say it is your opinion that I do not want to make a sect or set myself at the head of a party. No, let the name of Whitfield die.

Jesus Christ may live. And then even to others, he would explain, let my name be forgotten. Let me be trodden under the feet of all men. If Jesus may thereby. Amen. Wow. You know, I mean, I mean, for me, when I read that, it's worth imitating.

And very rarely imitated in the 21st.

Century. Yeah. Wow, that's powerful. That's something for us all to learn from. I think the most pressing question that any of our listeners have about Whitfield is, what's the deal with the Princess Leia powdered wig that he had?

It's actually still exists in England in the court system. Yeah. But I was just joking by.

Bringing it up. But anyway. Well, I want to learn as much as possible that we didn't cover the last time on the show about Whitfield. And I know that we've touched on this before. I don't know if you have anything to add to it.

But it's said that there are even confessionally reformed and Calvinistic brothers in Christ who have a big problem with Whitfield and do not count him among their heroes, which is very baffling and puzzling to me.

I mean, there are a number of big differences between the reformers themselves and those who would later pick up the mantle throughout the centuries, all kinds of differences. Why would you be so hostile to George Whitfield and his memory.

If you indeed are a believer in the same gospel that he preached? Well, it's because they really see George as having been sort of what we know today, that he was such. But what these brothers are not to his churchmanship is that George Whitfield was a committed.

He was very strongly committed to the Church of England, committed to her 39 articles. He had a very strong churchmanship when it came to the church that he was a member of, ordained him, his work itinerant.

And therefore, he was not a settled pastor in one church, even though he did serve in a pastoral more field and not being really a true, you know, you can get the impression on the surface if you don't really dig deep to think that, well, Whitfield, he just really wasn't a churchman.

But yet, for George Whitfield, in the preaching the word of God, preaching the gospel, then to be preaching the scriptures in... Well, that explains why we had here in the United.

States. I don't know what the counterpart in the UK would have been, or in Great Britain and other places in Europe. But we had, at one time, there was a division between the Episcopal Church and the Methodist Church, and they were known as the Methodist Episcopal Church.

And today, we even have the African Methodist Episcopal Church. But at one time, there was a multi-racial cultural denomination called the Methodist Episcopal Church. And so, I guess, that explains the connection, of course, since Whitfield being a Methodist was also an Anglican.

And in regards to 1837, it was full-scale biography written. He had full-scale biography. And in this book, the Anglican Church, he says that, he says, churches delighted him much wherever it occurred.

He never fails to record both his gratitude and gratification when he obtains on any tour access to even one church. It was always good—excuse me, it always did him good. True, he was at home wherever there was need when he had a mountain for his pulpit in church.

In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off about.

The liturgy, because we have to get to our midway break. We're going to be back. This is our elongated break to satisfy the requirements of Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida. They require a 12-minute break between our two hours, so don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Kurt M. Smith and more on George Whitefield. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year-round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours, with just about an hour to go, is Kurt M. Smith. He is the pastor of Providence Reform Baptist Church in Pine Mountain, Alabama, and he's an author, and we are discussing part two of Thundering the Word, the Life, Ministry, and Gospel of George Whitefield.

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In fact, I think it was probably my favorite conference that I ever attended in my life last January. Well, it's returning to Atlanta, Georgia this January from the 17th through the 20th. Yeah, the 17th, in the daytime anyway, is going to be exclusively in Spanish.

And then in the evening, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries is going to be debating another Muslim apologist at this event. I'll give you more details as they come to me, as far as the theme and so on.