TiL- A Defense of Cessationism part 2

Love podcasts. We are very thankful that you have joined us tonight. We are going to Go back to our series on cessationism a defense of cessationism part to stick with us. Welcome back. We're glad to have you.

How you doing, Dan? Great. How are you? I'm doing well. I noticed you have on the same shirt that you did last episode.

That's true. It's because it was five minutes ago.

Again, we are recording and our wardrobe is not changing in between these these sessions. So if that's if you've noticed that that's the reason we're recording, but that doesn't mean we can't see your comments.

Notice that you've got way too much time on your hands. You just watch these a week apart and recognize that I have the same navy blue shirt on. Yeah, well now that we've brought it up, they'll probably even more noticeable.

That's right. That's right. Um.

Maybe I shouldn't even bring it up, but that's okay. It's okay. Hey, maybe we wash them in between shows. That can happen. We we are back enough. I didn't wash it in between shows. Um, well if we did them live there's a chance i'm pretty gross, okay.

Okay. We are back on cessationism we want to give it a defense of cessationism from our perspective the way we interpret and see. See it from scripture based on our convictions, but we want to speak with love kindness and uh humility.

Because it's a secondary issue. So we want to consider. You know continuationists our brothers and sisters as well. And work together but work together with all these folks in the gospel gospel ministry, uh.

So with that being said we do want to speak truth based on our conviction of scripture. And we want to jump in we're ready now, I think to jump into chapter 12 maybe. We had a long introduction, but that's okay.

So chapter 12, let me read the the first three verses and and what we're doing is just going through these three chapters. The place the the go-to place for the spiritual gifts. And we're going to look at it from a cessationist standpoint.

Um, if you're wondering what a definition of a continuationist and a cessationist is we we kind of end of the podcast. With that but just a reminder continuationist means that the spiritual gifts that are mentioned especially here in first corinthians.

Have continued as the norm or were supposed to have been the norm in the church throughout all of time after. After they were given but a cessationist. They believe that at a certain point. They cease to operate the way they did in the first century.

We'll put it like that. Um, they they were used to to confirm give give confirmation to the the speaker and the message. That it was a revelation. That it was from god. Um, but then at the close of the canon the end of 70 a .d the the close of the old.

When all that was finished then the gifts. Working in that way ceased to happen. It doesn't mean that god doesn't still heal. Or do some of those type of things. He just is not the norm in the church.

Is is that correct? Let's say that yeah decently, okay. Sounds good. All right, uh verses one through three in chapter 12. Now concerning spiritual gifts brethren, I do not want you to be unaware you know that when you were Pagans you were led astray to the mute idols.

However, you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the spirit of god says jesus is accursed. And no one can say jesus is lord except by the holy spirit. Yep. Yep.

Go ahead now. It'll be important to bring up something that we brought up last time you brought up. Uh that paul was talking to them as infants in christ. He said I wish I could talk to you like you're spiritual people like you know what's going on.

But you you are just barely saved and we got to build from the ground up. So when he comes here, he says now Concerns new subject same thing. From the from the ground up we're going to start with the basics and we're going to move on from there.

Concerning spiritual gifts brothers. I don't want you to be ignorant. No, I don't want you to not know. I don't want you to be informed on the matter so i'm going to tell you a little something about it and I want you to you know.

Don't run off the rails. Don't go this way or that way. Here's what you need to here's what you need to know. And I think that that crescendos in uh chapter 13, which is still a spiritual gifts chapter and uh chapter 14 where he explains why chapter 13 it matters so much which is love um.

So he says I don't want you to be ignorant. So remember back to when you were pagans. You were led astray by mute idols by things that couldn't talk there were stone Metal wood. They were just sitting there Dumb dead as a doornail.

I mean dumb in both senses. They couldn't talk and they dumb as a brick literally. And you were little you were however you were led. So some of them were just led astray because that's what their family had always done.

Some of them were led astray by actual Demonic activity i'm sure. Yeah, um, so maybe some of them did have some experience With some spiritual things that were happening. They came in contact with the spiritual world.

That's nothing that's uncommon today. Even people who have been involved in new age or hinduism buddhism um who had who have been involved in some spiritual practices and Come across some actual real spiritual beings and had some spiritual experiences um, they would also need to be to be taught, you know, you were doing you were following Your own way in paganism over here now that you're a christian.

We're going to explain this to you properly because However, you were led you were led astray. So i'm going to give you some proper good information. And he says now here number one Look at this before we go anywhere.

Uh, if somebody says that jesus is accursed. No. Don't do that. They are not from god, right? And then he says this and this is this a little bit more of a sticking point. He says and nobody can say That jesus is lord except by the power of the holy spirit now It doesn't mean that everything that somebody says jesus is lord on is correct.

Right, but what it does mean is the spirit has allowed them to to say the phrase that jesus is lord for god's own.

Glory, right, right.

It doesn't mean that just because you could have some some heretic false teacher come out of nowhere say jesus is lord. And then be the biggest flaming heretic ever. Although that statement that jesus is lord is correct, right?

So Let me. It's kind of where he sets them off. He sets them off straight saying You know, basically if anything happens That leads you towards jesus being accursed or jesus not being lord. Throw it out.

Jesus is considered lord. Test it right. Because um, nobody can say that unless The holy spirit has given them the ability to say that. So see what the holy spirit is saying. The holy spirit is saying Jesus is lord, but this guy's a wackadoodle.

Jesus is lord, but that dude's a wackadoodle. But if he says jesus is lord and he tells you to believe in him repent of your sins and trust in the gospel then Repent of your sins and trust in the gospel because he's saying that jesus is lord, right?

Let me bring uh, bring up two things and get your thoughts on these two points. So in in verse in verse two, uh, I want to look at that last phrase and and see if I believe that this last phrase. Um. Yeah, I think you were taking us in the right direction.

You were talking about these these idols. And how ridiculous they are because they can't talk. They they're they're mute. They're deaf dumb and blind because they don't exist and so you were you're accurate in your Description of them and your tone about them.

Do you think that that paul? Has that same type of tone? A more sarcastic type tone. In this book here in this phrase because you were you were led astray by mute idols however that happened. Because they they couldn't lead you because they don't exist.

So however that happened you were led by them. I I.

I know for a fact that there was some sarcasm woven throughout first corinthians. I'll say that for certain. I have not Looked into it deeply enough to know if if the greek bears out that this is one of those cases.

So it does exist. Oh, it definitely exists. I preached to first corinthians about 2000 to in 2019. Um. Yeah, it was all over the place. Yeah, okay. Okay.

So I saw that there that because I knew it was in other places I felt like this may be another one of those places where he's just being sarcastic with them and I bring that up because we're going to get into some places and maybe 13 or 14.

Maybe even 12 where he's being sarcastic again, and you'll have the continuationist Interpretation where they're taking it serious where paul is probably being more sarcastic.

I'm, sure. Yeah. Answering his own rhetorical question in a weird way type of thing, right?

Exactly. Exactly. So we'll we'll bring that back up and look at that later. Um. Have you heard this story going back to to verse three? And um It it makes more sense. Um, and and I I feel like it's it's accurate.

Um, I trust the speakers the preachers whom i've heard it from. Maybe you've heard this story. Maybe you haven't. Um, but it helps to make this This idea more real because anybody I mean you can say it and even an unbeliever believer can Make these words come out of their mouth.

An unbeliever can say jesus is lord. But what is he speaking of here? Only the person with the spirit can say jesus is lord. Well, anybody can speak those words. So what does it mean here? And and i've heard tell the story about in in this time period where soldiers would come around and you would either either have to um Say caesar is lord.

Or renounce that and say jesus is lord and then they would of course execute.

Have you heard that story? I have yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was it was uh, it was. It happened from time to time the the caesar worship was it was a real big thing. Um, in fact, there was big controversies over there were people who they came around and they just they got scared um, and so they threw the pinch of incense on the altar and then afterwards they felt horrible um went back to the church weeping and repenting and and One half of the church didn't want to let him back in the church and the other half said well I don't know if it was half and half but One part didn't want to let him back in the church and one part did.

And so that yeah, they fought over it. Um. So, yeah, that's uh. Well for us, I don't I don't know if that was it was taking place here, right? But yeah, i've heard of this but it meant something.

Sure, it wasn't just words that come out of your mouth. It meant something and for us.

Go ahead. Yeah, here's the thing where it says. Um Jesus is a curse or jesus is lord. It's not talking about just those phrases, right? Let's say somebody says jesus is lord and then come goes on in the next five ten minutes and Their teaching is that well, jesus isn't lord.

It's you know, you're prerogative to do x y and z and jesus is not really in control and and they go on saying jesus is lord, but You know What will you really die if you eat the fruit? Um, right. It's it's one of those things where where their message from start to finish is going to be jesus is lord.

Yeah, and it's anywhere in their their their rantings and ravings. They say something to the effect of jesus um. Is a curse, you know, jesus broke the law for you. Yeah, jesus didn't break the law for you.

Jesus is not a curse because everyone who breaks the laws is a curse and everyone who's hung on the tree is a curse, but he was bruised for our iniquities.

His chastisement of our peace was upon him. Was that our former southern baptist pastor that that said that I.

I don't know if he's former or current. I really don't know i've lost track. But I would be very wary of uh of someone who says something like that.

Well, if it's a guy that i'm thinking of they just recently Renounced their membership.

With the southern baptist convention. They're from charlotte and have orange. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Same one. Yeah, now i'm not saying anything about that dude, but. That was suspect. Yeah. That's one of those things where paul is saying if they say this Uh, they were not speaking by the spirit of god.

At least in that instance, they were not speaking by the spirit of god, right? So. Maybe you think about it. And that's that's thing. It even comes up here later. Uh distinguishing the spirits. Is someone speaking about the spirit of god?

They're speaking about the spirit of the world. Yeah, um. It's a spirit. One of the spiritual gifts is discernment. Um now some people took that and went way off off the rails with it, uh, but to be able to to say This is what was said and they may have used different words but these were the categories that they used and these were the things that were were said and This is what lined up with scripture and this is what not didn't line up with scripture.

Um, that's that's a a gifting from god to be able to to do that. It's it's right down here in verse 10 right.

So. Yeah, and just one more thought on that that phrase jesus is lord it. To me it goes beyond just the teachers. He goes beyond us in our everyday life. Um. Seeing jesus as lord and recognizing him as lord is recognizing him as as majesty.

As king as supreme as messiah as christ as all in all. And so if if you're living your daily life and you you say jesus is lord. Yeah, I believe in jesus. I go to church and then five minutes later you're Live, you know, you're.

The words that come out of your mouth do not reflect jesus being lord. You know the holy that's not from the holy spirit.

Right, right and uh. Yeah, and uh second peter one talks about that how we ought to add to our faith virtue and to our virtue steadfastness. Um, because those are the things that show that we we know god.

Um now to to the person who's thinking well, i've definitely done some stuff that's not of the spirit of god, um me too and it's one of those things where um. You turn from your sin and you repent of it.

Yeah, that's why I absolutely love the lord's supper. Um because the lord's supper you need to examine yourself to make sure that you're in christ. Examine yourself to make sure that you haven't offended a brother and and and living in unrepentant sin.

But for those who are Who are weak and are struggling and are going to christ and you don't know. You know what's going on and I mean, you don't know which way is up. But you know that jesus is lord and that's where you rest in your hat.

That's what the supper is for the supper. The supper is there to strengthen weary travelers on their way to the celestial city. So to speak yeah on our way to to the our final Resting place with christ as we have found peace.

We we find that grace in in the supper so when you go, I mean you go with fear and trembling but go expecting a blessing from god too because He is really truly present in the supper. Yeah, it's so he's talking about that at some point because i'm sure that'll.

Raise some eyebrows.

Well to your point, it's so interesting how it says, um, do not come to the table unworthily. Well, the the only way that you can come to the table um appropriately um is to Realize that you're coming unworthily.

If you come to the table Believing that you're worthy. Then you are coming to the table unworthily.

Right, right. If anybody wonders where we got this it's it's literally like four verses before this. Uh verse 29. For he who eats and and drinks and eats and drinks judgment to himself. If he does not judge the body rightly, right?

Um, so we can we can discuss that some other time, but we need to Press on.

Four four three seven now now there are a variety of gifts But the same spirit and there are a variety of ministries and the same lord There are a variety of effects But in the same But the same god who works all things in all persons But to each one is given the manifestation of the spirit for the common good.

Interesting.

Yep um now here's here's it's really interesting. These four these four verses are just Fantastic, uh. Verse four there are a variety of gifts. For the same spirit. Um, so there are gifts there's variety of ministries.

So there's gifts and there's ministries so far that are being handed out by the same spirit by the same lord. Uh verse six variety of what did you say effects?

That's what the nasb95 says.

Okay. Uh, the legacy standard bible says workings. Okay, but the same god who works everything and everyone um, so you have uh workings. Or effects or things that are taking place. You have ministries you have gifts.

All of them coming from god who works everything out to his own lord. Uh verse seven, but to each one is given the manifestation of the spirit. What is the manifestation of the spirit that would be the gift the ministry or the working that god is giving to you?

In order for you to flourish and help the church. We'll see why I said to help the church here in a second because I said well, it's the next phrase Manifestation of the spirit for what is profitable or what what did the the nasb say?

The common good the common good. Yeah, it's for the benefit of the church those who are around you which is why he goes on in 12 through Uh 26 and says all sorts of stuff about how we're one body. You can't be a foot or a hand or whatever.

Um, you need there's a diversity of gifts, but one god who gives them right? So what he's trying to do is he's trying he's trying to draw the mind of these people to their one lord. Jesus is lord and this one lord.

Jesus has sent the spirit to be our helper and our comforter. He's given us gifts. He's given us ministry and he's given us stuff to do. And we should go out and do those things and we should do those things.

Understanding that the reason why god has given us those gifts is to benefit our fellow churchmen. Our brothers and sisters in christ those same ones who who can call jesus brother and can call god father.

Same family we're to benefit those people with the gifts that we have, right? Whatever that gift may be.

Right and this is so foundational because in in the last episode that we you talked about the. You talked to us about the the word you and how it was used in the plural, right? And We're reading through um in our scripture reading at church um.

We're in first corinthians chapter three and you can see that even though he says you. It's clear. He's speaking to the the whole congregation. Right, it's a plural you yeah.

The king james brings it out because it'll use you and ye. In order to show the plural. Yeah, um in in greek class, uh, depending on if you took it up north or in the south i've done both um you will uh take it up north it's you and then you have to Talk about it.

If it's down south you put y 'all in there. Yeah, I have I have uh, well actually it's right here. I've got a workbook a greek workbook. I've got y 'all all over the place in here. Every time there's a plural second person plural y 'all so.

Yeah, he's been speaking that way. The whole time all the whole time and they're now that he started on gifts. I mean at the very beginning of the conversation. This is foundational that he's speaking to Them as a whole because he says these these things are for.

The common good. Right. It's for the it's for the benefit of those who are believing in jesus christ. Right, which is exactly what we said coming out of the last episode that that the purpose of of the gifts Was to to confirm the message of the cross that was saving people.

The same message of the cross was saving people that the gentile found foolish. They found foolish but hey, there's miracles. Right, they didn't believe in in christ, but here's wisdom here's tongues here's Healing here's some incredible faith, right?

So those things are showing up in order to to prove the message that jesus is lord that What the people of the church have is something real. That the old covenant has passed away and the new covenant has come that the grace of god is no longer in type and shadow Form but has now come to us in.

Uh, the reality of jesus christ and what he's done for us, right. And I don't know if this is what this. You know, the spirit was inspiring paul to write. I don't know if this is what was on paul's mind when he wrote it but.

Of course the spirit knew. What the future held? I mean he he could see throughout all eternity when he was inspiring scripture but. But this is what I see when I read these these three. Through these three verses that we read together.

Now there are a variety of gifts, but. Same spirit. Verse five same lord. Verse six same god. What do you have there? If if you are tempted just in case you are tempted to over emphasize one person of the trinity.

Here's your foundation. You got one spirit.

One lord and one god. Right. And generally speaking in scripture when you have spirit, it's the holy spirit. Lord is referring to jesus. That's right. God is referring to the father. So you've got the trinity laid out right there.

And one of the reasons why it hit me so so quickly was because a couple weeks ago. I preached uh, Matthew 23 1 through 12. He says don't let anybody call you teacher. You have only one teacher. Holy spirit.

Don't anybody let uh, don't be called leader. You have one leader. That's christ. Don't don't let anybody call you father. You have one father and you have the trinity right there. It's it's a it's beautiful picture that matthew drew and you have that same beautiful picture here of the trinity.

Just in case you're tempted to overemphasize One person of the trinity over the other here's your foundation right. We are at 26 minutes dan. Do you want to uh, Press on to a couple more you want to you want to wait?

Yeah.

Yeah, let's let's press on because we don't actually have to uh describe what comes next. Okay in order to explain what come or we don't have to explain in order to describe. I don't know. We'll just run on a little bit further.

Yeah, 8 through 11, okay. For to the one who was given the word of wisdom through the spirit and to the Excuse me. And to another the word of knowledge according to the same spirit to another faith By the same spirit and to another gifts of healing by the one spirit.

And to another the effecting of miracles and to another prophecy and to another distinguishing spirits distinguishing of spirits to another various kinds of tongues and to another the interpretation of tongues.

But the one and the same spirit works all these things distributing to each one individually just as he wills right.

So Here it goes out and lists, uh spiritual gifts. He gives eight. Nine of them depending on how you count uh tongues and the one who interprets or translates. So you've got a word of wisdom a word of wisdom being Wisdom words.

Why wise things. Um, so you got somebody who's going to be especially wise. Uh, somebody's going to be especially knowledgeable. Word of knowledge according to the same spirit they give them um gift of of knowledge Uh to someone else.

Faith now. People have faith. One of the fruits of the spirit is faith. Uh, so this is talking about an extraordinary faith a faith that is a little little little stronger a little uncommon among the people some may doubt some may have Questions, but this one is rock solid steadfast in their faith.

Um, one of them that you can you can you can lean on by the same it says by the same spirit. Uh gifts of healing uh healing being the healing of you know, we saw it all throughout the new testament um um.

Somebody's bleeding. Touch they stop. Somebody has died. Paul brought him back to life. Christ brought him back to life um. You know somebody's sick. They're made. Well fevers are gone. Stuff like that it just.

No weird word. They're just healing. Uh another who works miracles. Um Moses did that that was pretty cool. Um, he was old testament, but still. Uh, aaron staff I should say um Prophecy, uh, who is the one who who?

Bound up. He took paul's belt off. Bound up his hands and said the person who has his belt will be Bound by the hands and led off, uh to to rome or whatever um is prophecy. Also, I think prophecy has to do with uh, the the telling and the preaching of god's word, right?

I think it was interesting that how macarthur broke that word down. He said it just simply means before speaking and so he said Basically, it's speaking before men.

Sure. Yeah, it can be before it happens. It really means just just telling what god has told you to say. Right if it's future events tell that if it's something that's happened in the past or doctrine tell that yeah.

Yeah. Um, let's see. Where were we? Uh. Prophecy, uh distinguishing the spirits we talked about that earlier, uh spirit of the world spirit of christ. Um, you know the holy spirit or even an evil spirit um.

It gives us the the test for it. Jesus is a curse or jesus is lord being able to to walk through that and see. Uh, how does that play out and distinguish? Those things uh speaking in tongues tongues are uh languages um now a little bit further on I will say um.

Maybe not a language that we know. But it is a real language and not just gibberish, right? So it may be I don't say a language that we don't know. I mean a language that maybe doesn't exist among humanity um.

It says I can speak in the tongues of angels perhaps. Cool, but we'll look at the purpose of tongues later. Other could also and then one who could interpret or translate those words um, whatever language that is if it's because they know the language or You know and god gave them the the gift to know that language when they're in the situation.

Or if they give them a supernatural Sort of gift to interpret that or translate that um. Either either way they have a translation of the thing but but here's the important part Of all these spiritual gifts.

But one in the same spirit works all these things so it's one spirit the same spirit of god and here's the point. Of all that he's trying to say. Because he gets on him here in a little bit this one spirit.

Does all of this and he is the one who is is working and testifying about christ. The one who you've believed in and he goes on later and he gets on him. I mean just in the next few verses he gets on him and says.

You know, so why are you fighting amongst each other over who gets to do what? And that's why why he's he's saying these things. Uh distributing to each one individually just as he will so g so the spirit is giving out these gifts.

And really it says and I forget where that christ came and brought gifts to us, too. So it's it's not just the spirit as we saw up above. The spirit son and the father all giving gifts to mankind for the purpose of glorifying god and uplifting the church so.

The purpose here is you were ignorant. You were pagans. I don't want you to be ignorant. However, you got deceived before don't be deceived now Jesus is lord. He's giving you out these gifts and these gifts are not for you.

Well, let me rephrase that the gifts that you have are not for you. The gifts that you have are to build up the body of the church and confirm the word of the gospel. Now your brother has a gift his his gift is to confirm the word of the gospel and build you up.

However that happens. Um, so you mean it's not to make me rich and have a private plane.

No, and in fact, um if you if you wish to uh, if you get a little jealous, um and you wish to go by the power of the holy spirit like simon the sorcerer, um. Your money will perish with you so please stop and uh.

Don't do that. And then uh. What did he say? He said please? Pray that these things that you said to me Would not happen so I think he even got a little scared so no it's not supposed to make you. Um and counterfeiting the gifts in order to make you rich is even worse.

Oh, yeah and get. Gold dust and feather angel feathers like give me a break. That's not that's not listed anywhere. Like at least pick one from the list. Anyway, i'm i'm gonna go on a rant here. We're four minutes overdue.

So Proclaim the gospel to us if you would then i'll pray absolutely.

The purpose of the of all of these gifts was to confirm the one message of the gospel. And that was that jesus christ came to the earth. As he said he would all throughout the old testament and he died in the place of men who deserve to die for their sins.

Men like you men like me and I mean men as in men and women whoever has breath in their lungs. Um. He he died for people like us those who need someone to to. Because they need forgiveness. And so he died in the place taking the sins of men upon himself.

He gave them gave us his righteousness. He laid in the grave for three days and then arose in order to give us life. So he he made sure that we weren't going to be punished and then gave us eternal life.

He did that he Ensured that we had justification in in all. And here's the here's the thing it caused each one of us to repent of our sins to turn from our sins. And trust in that message that he has forgiven.

Those who come to him and every single person that comes to him is going to find him to be the perfect savior. Yeah, so if you have believed in your heart and confess with your mouth that jesus is lord.

You can have that assurance of your pardon that christ is your Savior your sins have been forgiven that they're as far away as the east is from the west and they're never coming back together. That is the message of the gospel that christ what christ has done what we could not do he has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness and He has called each one of us to come to himself and find peace there.

Amen.

Let's pray together Father we thank you for giving us this opportunity time together time spent in your word. We pray Seeking your promise to be fulfilled that your word will not return void that you would accomplish the task that you have Sent and we're we're beyond grateful for your grace and mercy that we would We could see See the truth receive the truth Um Be made alive To the work of your son and the power of the holy spirit and that we can With our mind understand and be given wisdom and with the words of our mouth be speaking that message and observe your power through the holy spirit to work in this world to Destroy As you say, um Your enemies making um your enemies your footstool And and conquering this world for your glory and by saving souls and us Living in the fact that jesus is lord we pray all these things in jesus name.

Amen. Thank you all so much for watching. Don't forget to leave a comment a question critique uh If you have a question about a particular verse Uh a question about cessationism or continuationism that that you would like for us to answer We would love to try and do that, but we do.

If you know where to find gold dust, uh, please send it to us. We'll leave a link in the description.

That would be beneficial to for my wallet. Oh. We do appreciate you, thank you so much and remember that jesus king. Go live in the victory of christ. Go speak with the authority of christ and go share the gospel of christ.