13. Open Air Theology Conference Q&A Panel

Calvinism and Evangelism

All right, should we get started here gentlemen. Well, welcome to the question and answers Session, excuse me. You know a lot of these guys up here that preach thought they have the hardest job. I actually have the hardest job trying to keep scholars and theologians from talking Hours on end on a subject in a question.

So we're gonna try to wrangle this. We're gonna try to keep it moving along try to get through all of these. Hopefully quickly. Obviously we'll give time where time is due, but we have What do we have here?

Third 14 questions, so let's see if we can get through them and Some of them we might just. Whoever wants to kind of pop in maybe others will be directed towards others. So thank you gentlemen for doing this.

So question number one. How did the theological differences of Calvinism and our minimism affect their approaches to evangelism and missions? Do the beliefs? Lead to different strategies. I'm gonna throw that one out there for anyone who wants to bite on the first one.

The beliefs Lead to different strategies when it comes to evangelism for Calvinism and our minimism.

Yes. Primarily I think in the sovereignty of God and we think about evangelism. As we are going out and sharing our faith and we're sharing the gospel of Christ. The Calvinist recognizes that God is sovereign and salvation so.

Our.

Responsibility is not to produce converts or Persuade to the point where it's in our own power to do so. We're trusting in the sovereign work of the Spirit through the gospel. To say whereas An Arminian is is feeling I would think a much greater burden to try to get you know a response.

So, yeah, I think the sovereignty of God is huge in that. Anyone else want to follow that up. Heard of Kevin.

Dr. White I mentioned as I spoke our work up in Salt Lake City out at the Mesa Easter pageant and How much opposition we got from non reformed? Evangelicals for doing that you're bothering these people.

This is a special event. They have blah blah blah blah and I do Honestly believe now, I I think I think the better Synergists, let's go Armenian is a very specific thing. And I think if we stick with synergist, we're a little bit closer to a broader description I think the better Synergists Borrow some of our Theology to make their outreach work.

Why are why would you pray? Before you go out witnessing to people if God's already doing the best he can you know He's already done everything he possibly can do. So why would you why would you be praying that God would open hearts like Lydia's or something along those lines or Pray that that we would be used that we would be Particularly sensitive to the spirits leading and things like that.

And of course their response would be well if you think everything's decreed that nothing matters. Anyways, and I just go just read the rest of the Bible. It's it's right there in front of you. We are used as the means by which these things will take place.

And so I do think that as reformed people we have a foundation to resist some of the silliness that comes down the road as far as Evangelistic methodology and I think all of us have been in situations where You know by the 32nd stanza of just as I am you were getting ready to be converted again.

But sadly as Most of us I think recognize we've seen the results of that in the number of people who made Emotional commitments and then you know three weeks later three years later, whatever. They're nowhere to be found.

You know that can happen to anybody but the the methodology that produces it. I.

Think we have a better foundation to deal with that. Yeah, that's good. All right. This next one may be for Jeffrey or Jeremiah or maybe even Claude since they have such beautiful beards. Is the Calvinistic community.

Unfriendly to the unbearded non white or female. Why do we all look so similar and does it indicate we could or should be more welcoming or kind to others who don't. Look like us. Hey. Hey, I.

Have a perfectly short beard. I.

Just want to say I didn't even know I could grow a beard until I started studying reform theology. There's something to that I can't explain it. The aroma of grace just allows it to grow, you know.

But do any of you just throw it out there. Do you any of you think there is an issue with that. Because there it might. I'm not sure if the writer of this joke Was a writer of this question was making a joke.

Well, but but there are similarities within certain tribal, you know, I mean you can become tribal a little bit and we have.

Doctor do you does the seminary have a facial hair policy?

So.

I don't have a beard because I'm reformed. I got one because I don't have a chin.

And for the person who wrote that question, I think it's for most of us up here that's why we have a beard.

He said he's got one because he's got two chins.

But.

There's mean people in in every branch, right. I mean I speak against the Calvinist who are angry and mean and I speak against the Armenian who are the synergists who is angry and mean. And if you really want to see mean people get into the premillennial dispensational face group.

Groups and you and you disagree on Patriot and all this other stuff. You you'll get kicked out the kingdom quicker than you can.

Are you about to bring up Bigfoot with the beard or somehow?

So this next question here, I.

Will say this that as somebody who has a very humble beard and I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke I don't have any tattoos. My perception of the reformed male community was they smoke they drink they have tattoos they have big beards and.

Getting with these guys has actually broken me of that because I'm like, yeah some of them. But not all of them and not the best of them, you know.

Now hold on. That's good, that's good. And honestly, I think that's a kind of a cliche too because if you go to any conferences or hang out in churches and believe Me I've got 750 people in my church and it's a lot of women and children and families and not everyone has beards and those things so yeah.

What's that? Just half the women have beards, you know us Presbyterians. All right. So this one might be a Keith question or I would be interested in Braden's response to this coming out of Mormonism and in Keith.

Having a podcast called conversations with the Calvinist and your Calvinist. Do you refer to yourself as a Calvinist when in a group of non Calvinist or do you avoid using that label because of its? Common misunderstandings.

Even dr. Waldron might be able to answers to being in ministry so long and seeing terms change as well.

What do you guys think you use that term? I do. I have a long list of terms I like to identify with. I'm a covenantal theologist 1689 Federalist. I lay it out and I think terms are helpful because if we can define the terms, I think it helps with.

Miss.

Representations and so if somebody knows I'm a Calvinist and they see me being respectful and having a good dialogue with them that helps I think that helps destroy what they've put in their mind as a Strawman or a association fallacy of what they thought and that Calvinist was I think at first right out of the gate and if that like I'm not gonna go around introduced I'm Braden the Calvinist right?

But if that comes up, I'm like Keith does maybe maybe maybe but I Do think it's helpful at trying trying to build that relationship the longer those dialogues go. Yeah, I.

Have a video on my channel why I call myself a Calvinist. It kind of goes along with what he said I said if I caught if somebody says they're a Christian I have a thousand questions if somebody says they're Calvinist.

I have fewer questions. That's all I you know what I believe about the Doctrine of justification know what I believe about the the Bible is God's Word things like that. So it's a simplification, you know I don't say hey look at that animal with the long face and the big bowling ball eyes and no It's a horse because that's the name right?

So a name has meaning and it's helpful in certain contexts. But the name of my show Actually came about because there was a pastor in town Who had Found out that I was a Calvinist. I walked into a restaurant he's sitting with a group of people from his church and he says that guy's a Calvinist and Then he noticed I heard him and he like turned away like he didn't even know me.

But that's what he called that guy's a Calvinist and I said, I guess I'm the neighborhood Calvinist. And that's where the conversation with a Calvinist show was based on that sort of moment. We're like this is how I'm known in the community.

So it was okay for me. That was where that came from.

God's Sovereignty, Delusion, and the Delay of the Parousia

Awesome. Let's move along then in second Thessalonians 2 11 God sends upon them a Diluting influence. I think it's a delusion so that the so That the people will believe what is false. Why must God do this if the default nature of man is to love sin and suppress truth?

Doctor. Well, look what it's talking about there is if you don't mind me give me you might give me you. My eschatology is the final period of tribulation at the end of the age led by a global assault on the church by the man of center the man of lawlessness lawlessness and that and that Sending of a diluting influence on people is I think Pardon me for saying it again what revelation 20 is talking about when it says that Satan is loose.

These are people that did not receive the gospel and who are now being led into the delusion of following the Antichrist to the final destruction of The world and the coming of Christ and the new heavens and the world.

Anyone else or did he is the real king of our millennialism? I just want y 'all to know that. Sam Walden everybody.

All right, let's move along then. I mean, oh I forgot.

I was actually gonna make a serious comment. I'm not sure if we're allowed to do that in this. But I think there's also a principle that that needs to be kept in mind. That's not necessarily just identifying exactly what that text about and doing the eschatology thing.

I think there is a principle it needs to be kept in mind that God uses means and there are times when for example Pharaoh God had to harden Pharaoh's heart to accomplish his purposes because there were a bunch of times when Pharaoh Would have done what God commanded him to do just simply to save his own hide.

Where there are things where people will were sinners who are in rebellion against God who love their evil Will do the right thing but for the wrong reasons and so God uses means to bring judgment and I think sadly In our own nation right now if we look around us we can see God using means.

To bring incredible judgment upon a people who have been given tremendous light and have decided to spit in God's face when When the Biden regime whoever is running it certainly not Joe Biden Lit the White House up in rainbow colors.

I'd that's a extended middle finger aimed at heaven and Unfortunately when judgment comes very often even God's people You know experience the results of that of that judgment. So God can bring judgment.

God is bringing judgment. And there are times when people will do the right thing to avoid judgment. But God then hardens their hearts and puts them in that situation.

And let me just say amen to that and I think there is a larger principle of that is there in 2nd Thessalonians 2 because the evil influence being sent to dilute people's that then followed by The reference to electing grace and how the Spirit is sent to teach people the truth.

So amen. Alright, how can It be God's will that not any should perish 2nd Peter 3 9, but God's will would elect some and not others slash all. So I think they're having an issue with 2nd Peter 3 9 He wishes none should perish but then would elect some and not all.

Well, everybody keeps looking down at me. In the potter's freedom I have a chapter called the big three where I deal with The text in Matthew and I deal with 1st Timothy 2 and I deal with 2nd Peter 3 9.

There is an interesting article on the OPC website where they had committees Draft two different differing understandings of how to understand 2nd Peter 3 9 and I'd recommend it to people so you could read both sides.

I I take a particular side on that because I'm reformed. Because I apply the same hermeneutics by which I defend the deity of Christ and the resurrection with Muslims Mormons whatever. When I apply that same hermeneutics to the subject of salvation, I am forced to be reformed.

Okay, and so when I look at 2nd Peter 3 9, I follow the pronouns and the pronouns tell me What the text is talking about that? It's not some just general broad statement where I have to do The multiple wills of God issue answer which is one side in the OPC argument.

I.

Understand what's being said there in reference to Well, the only reason that any of us are in the kingdom of God today is because God has delayed the parousia to the bringing in of his elect people and that's however long that's going to take.

When that number is filled then God brings the end and that's what I think he's talking about there. It's not some general statement that would in any way be contradictory to Well the entirety of the Old Testament history.

Because if you understand 2nd Peter 3 9 that way then you really have to go. So why wasn't Israel sending? missionaries to all the people around and then the Amorites and what was that that section in Genesis where the Iniquity of the Amorites has not been filled up yet.

What's what's all that about? It really makes you go. Don't you see the exclusive nature of the of the worship in? Israel in the ancient world and there were lots and lots of other nations, but there weren't prophets sent to those other nations.

But they were they were sent to Israel. So that's that's my take on that one.

Let me just say that I agree with that interpretation. I do think it's a particular text and That it's talking about the bringing in of the elect before Christ's second coming. That's the way I understand the text as well.

But I will I do have to say that if you go read John Kelvin of the text He's going to refer it to God's revealed will and the free offer of the gospel. So there's a long-standing dispute about 2nd Peter 3 9 among among reformed people.

Kelvin himself, right? I saw you you nodding your head. So I think you're familiar with the OPC the minority and majority Reports on that and I thought they did a good job laying out the two sides on that and that's available at OPC org If you want to look it up.

Awesome. Let's move along. What is the correct view regarding the unrepentant who died. We touched on this a little bit. Just now in the last question that God has passed over them. Leaving them in unrepentant sin or God has hardened their hearts as he did to Pharaoh.

So, how do we view the unrepentant who died? Is it is it one of those two categories or is there a third? Michael.

Yeah, well, I mean it was just touched on earlier as well. When we think about predestination we think about election. It's God is electing his people unto salvation. Predestination is for the elect and so we talked about hardening earlier from Romans 9 just as dr. White just just referenced He and in Romans 1.

In our own nation, we're seeing that God is giving them over to their sin and You know, the worst thing to see happen is when God takes his hands off of you in that sense. And so as God again and again Hands people over to their own sin.

He leaves them to their own sins and devices. And so I would say it's a both and not either or we concur. Okay, we're we're in agreeance. Okay.

Free Will Before the Fall and the Bondage of the Will

This this one's a little different. I'd like to hear from some other people in this maybe maybe Andrew or someone hasn't spoke yet. What was the state of free will prior to the fall? I'll give you the easy one Andrew.

Oh Claude.

Sorry. Yeah, so so I think I think that for a lot of Christians that have a such a hard time and a challenge making that distinction that identification of free will that question there goes back to The creation.

We have to go back to the beginning. Adam and Eve were created unlike any other Person that has ever been created. They truly were able to sin or not to sin. They chose sin and we know the rest of the story as the scripture says as a script human stop.

I.

Thought am I saying something wrong? Yeah, yeah, so so of course with again going back to scripture Greg's and getting out of my hands I'll try to say it like this. Sorry. So going back to the scripture right.

Sin was Pronounced upon all and so from incense Adam and Eve. No one has come into Existence without the sin nature so truly they were able to sin or not to sin. We don't have.

That choice when it comes to free will so I guess that the fear an hour-long episode of soteriology 101 that I'll be on. The reality is No, you're you're six hours, you're six hours.

Hi Layton.

Uh.

Why are we even talking about a free will. The scripture is kind of clear. It's an enslaved Will there there is a will. We kind of put this as two words as if they're now one. You know, what does it mean to be free?

We're not free. We don't have a free will until we're in Christ. We have a will and it's bound by sin and if if the effect of Adam and Eve if That curse affected our intellect our emotions and our volition then our will is not free, which is exactly what Romans says.

I.

Would like to add just one other thing to that is that God was still sovereign even in that state before the fall. Everything that they did in that garden was still according to God's plan and his His his decree is what it was.

And when they fell what took place was prior to the fall. They were in a state where they could have used their gardening ability to please God but immediately after the fall they took that same gardening ability that they had and Displeased him by trying to cover up their own sinfulness with the fig leaves.

And so that's what the state now that we are in is. We have a lot of the same Actions that we could do but it is never pleasing to God. There's a permanent cessation of ability to please God apart and outside of Christ and that's what Ephesians.

I would argue is what Ephesians 2 1 through 5 is a teaching about spiritual or the Being dead in your sins and trespasses. It's saying that we have a permanent cessation of ability to please God outside of Christ.

And that's what they fell into.

Yeah, I'm not adding anything substantial here. I just wanted to say to the person that asked this question I think the definitive work on this is gonna be gonna be Thomas Boston's fourfold nature of man.

If you're looking into what was the nature before the fall after the fall. What's our nature gonna be like after we're glorified in heaven. Thomas Boston's fourfold nature of man's definitely when you need to pick up.

Yeah, so my understanding would be. Which please correct me if I'm wrong. But Christ was plan a him entering into creation becoming flesh. Living the life that we cannot live taking upon himself. The punishment that we deserve is plan a.

Price was not a plan B. So although I would agree with everything that they had a free will unlike we have. But I would say that their fall was predetermined because Christ was not plan B.

The Destiny of Infants Who Die

So this one we might have some disagreement on here is the Calvinistic position that all babies who die go to hell.

No, that's that's not an official position. Just answer the question directly. No, you do not have to believe that to be a Calvinist. And you don't have to be a Calvinist to believe that or disbelieve in it.

So yeah, maybe he should go last. Because I can see he might have a strong opinion on this one.

So evidently I don't know about a month ago On a program which will not be mentioned moment an individual made a vile comment about Calvinist parents that Our idea is hey as long as we get in we don't care about the kids the kids can can go to hell they can be Damned as long as as we get ours and and I respond to that.

But I respond to that because it's just it's vile and it's stupid and it should have been immediately challenged for the insanity that it is that resulted in the creation of a fake controversy online, which is really easy to do all you need is a Hashtag to create a fake controversy and in as a result We thanks to someone in this room and it's not who you think it is.

Thanks to someone in this room all everything I have said in my sermons dividing line debates sermons at other churches back to 1998 is Fully searchable on our website and that's only within the past year that the gentleman who did all this work came up to me last year at the conference and and and that's how it all started and so it's really easy to Track you want to want to say there see the man in the back waving Let's not church.

And and if you go to the transcripts page at a omen org, that's what that's what you're getting is is his work. Which is really helpful to me, but it's also really helpful to people who don't like me however, what happened in this situation was We started going back through what I've said Consistently for a quarter century and I've said the exact same stinking thing all the way along.

Which is exactly what the Westminster Confession of Faith says which is exactly what the London Baptist Confession of Faith says and talks about the issue of elect infants and I I Got a little upset about all this because I'll be honest with you.

This is an issue that should be dealt with pastorally within your own church. Turning it into a baseball bat to smack somebody with is vile and childish. I was a hospital chaplain. I Had to stand there when six-month-old babies were dead on a hospital gurney.

I take this very seriously. I don't use it as a football in a theological game and so I think whatever you come down to look most people default to the All babies who die go to heaven that's pretty much what Zwingli said.

He said I can't prove it. You can't disprove me. Let's just not worry about it type of situation. Okay, I get that My assertion has always been that God has the exact same freedom to save with infants as he does with adults but it will always be by grace and therefore if scripture doesn't give me anything more than that then I need to stand right where that is and That's what the confessional position has been and I have always Enunciated that that position even when I've been on panels like this With folks from like Master's Seminary where that's not the position they take.

They take the all infants who die in infancy no matter what Are automatically going to heaven and you simply have to allow For the discussions that have taken place on this subject Over a lot of years and you have to deal with it.

I think in a mature fashion.

So in light of what was what all he went into very practically. I have a 15 month old baby boy that I look forward to rocking every night. And You know us having the high view of God and God uses means I trust in the just Judge of all the earth to do right.

And so I see scripture that talks about how for such Little children of the kingdom of heaven. I trust God in these hard matters aren't absolutely clear on. But I find comfort knowing that. Every night I want to pray for baby JJ's salvation that God would take out his heart of stone and give him a heart of flesh.

And so I found comfort in these conversations and looking to the high view of God's sovereignty. And I am a hospice chaplain so I want to be able to preach the gospel in these situations and love on them and Trust that God will give the increase in these moments.

And so maybe the question dr. White didn't come from whatever controversy, but out of what I had said. You know, let me just reread what I said about the the counter rewards friends. They're they had eight points of their original one.

One of them said believers children are to be considered as elect and they if they die in infancy as Saved so I don't know if that's where the question is coming from. But I think that I've. My position is really clear.

I don't know I don't think scripture says one way or the other. I've heard the arguments David's child things like this. That is an idiom a Jewish idiom that is saying that that David could die but the child can't come back to life.

I don't think he's saying that he's going to see the child. I don't think that you could use that because David actually had supernatural knowledge. Got a prophet told him he was gonna lose the child.

Maybe he also had it that he was gonna see a child if that was in fact what he was saying. But I I don't think there's any arguments or any passages that clearly state. Children do go to heaven. I lost a child while in the womb.

It's not from a pastoral perspective. I don't sit there and say oh your child's going to heaven to make someone feel better. But I'm also not gonna say that your child's going to hell because I don't know that.

But what I will say is God knows better than us and he is sovereign and I agree wholeheartedly with what? Dr. White said that God can save through the same means of grace an adult as he can an infant.

Yeah, I would echo everything that's been said with with that I being I'm so I'm a firefighter for my full-time work and I run into this all the time. And I think the way that we need to counsel and direct people's eyes to hope is to turn them towards God and his justice and righteousness love mercy all that.

And so I I would Dr. Waldron told me to read the confession when he tells you to read the confession. You're gonna read the confession. Chapter 10 paragraph 3 in the 1689. It says elect infants dying and infancy infancy are Regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit who works when and where and how he pleases.

The same is true of every elect person of who is incapable of being outwardly called By the ministry of the word. And so I I would say that I think this is the pro of Calvinism. Is that it sets a way that God's Word has revealed?

Everybody is saved beforehand known or loved beforehand loved.

Predestined called.

Justified and glorified and that's that's regardless of the ages. And so the person that's that that that's saved before they're on their deathbed. It's the same means that I'm saved by and it's the same means if there is elect infant they are saved by as well.

Regeneration, Sanctification, and the Fairness of Divine Judgment

That's good. So maybe we'll get in Keith or Michael or Claude on this one. Is regeneration simultaneous with Spirit indwelling or does indwelling happen with confession? What order does salvation happen in if I may?

Yes, go ahead Jeff. We're not answering this question because that's my sermon.

When the founder of the conference says.

So come back tomorrow, okay, I should have said that about the will of man. That's Why he's the preacher's preacher.

God will rebuke us all.

So where does sanctification fit into God's election? Is it also a gift like faith? Yep. Okay, next question expand on that unless well.

There's something I think needs to be clarified. That's really important, I don't know if any of you saw my debate last Saturday evening with Trent horn of Catholic answers on purgatory in Houston. But as every debate I've done in purgatory with a Roman Catholic representative has demonstrated We need to really understand the distinction between justification and sanctification.

We need to understand how they're intimately related. They cannot be separated from one another but they must be distinguished. Because if they are not distinguished you end up with the sacramental system of Rome and you end up with a relationship to God that is dependent upon your continued faithfulness in Accessing grace through the sacramental system.

And so I think it's appropriate to talk about Positional sanctification and experiential sanctification because the Bible gives us examples of these types of things. But I think it's very very important that we recognize the difference between our justified state the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ is the basis of our peace with God and Then in that situation we will want to experience sanctification in the sense of being conformed the image of Christ.

But they are not the same thing. And if we make them the same thing, we will end up having nothing to say to Rome in essence.

I just want to add one thing to get that more clearly. Open air theology. The next conference is going to be on sanctification. It's gonna be called how then shall we live? So if y 'all want to see that dove into your real deep so you're saying buy tickets now for next year's conference.

That's the next one. So we're gonna really dive in deep into the whole idea of sanctification.

Yeah, I was just gonna add that Philippians 2 12 and 13 is always the text that I go to for this because I think it helps to to illustrate The way this works. So Paul writes therefore my beloved as you have always obeyed.

So now not only as in my presence, but much more in my absence. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So there is absolutely a human responsibility to our sanctification. But then verse 13 says.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. So I think it's good to emphasize just you know, both aspects of that that sanctifying work.

Yeah, and this actually are we good on that question? Did anyone want to add to that. Because kind of goes into our next question, but a very common Question that I've gotten to and I know you guys have to.

How is it fair that a person received judgment if they didn't have a choice.

So I just want to start by saying they had many choices. Their whole life rebels against God. The question is who gets ultimate decision-making Ultimate and so when we speak about ultimate categories, it's always God.

That's why Romans 9. Who are you? Oh man, it's pointing back to God is the ultimate. You don't get to answer back to your creator and say hey I would have done things ultimately a different way. Guess what?

You are not God. And so the point is they did have a choice. It just wasn't ultimate. We have to understand that when we are working out our salvation with fear and trembling you make genuine choices according to your heart's desire.

A Non-Calvinist would say well, you're you believe your desires bent on evil and we're like, yes, we see that working out in the world. But that's genuine and true. It's just not ultimate it's compatible with what God has eternally chosen.

There's a debate in the reform community that's been going on for probably a hundred years and it's rearing its head again. Which is does God give a genuine offer of salvation to the unelect? Is the free offer of salvation genuine.

And Claude covered this. I told him after a sermon. I said, I can't believe you came to a Calvinist conference and preached the free offer of salvation because that's a controversial topic. And I think that I've you know, I've already set myself up to get burned later.

But I think that if you don't believe in the free offer of salvation, you're departing from historical Christianity. I really believe that. There's never been anybody that said yes to God and God said no to them.

There's never been anybody that did that genuinely placed faith in God and God said well, you weren't elect you go to hell. Anyway, that's never happened. So we believe that God genuinely presents the gospel the gospel offer to all people and they reject him.

So I guess I would just ask a series of questions. Is it fair that.

The.

Angels rebelled against God and God didn't give him a second chance. Is it fair that dogs don't have an intellect and ability like we have. Is it fair that birds can't have a true choice? Who are we to sit here and say that God owes us?

Anything that we have to say it's not fair from God.

Yeah, I was just gonna reiterate something. I read earlier, which is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession chapter 3 paragraph 1. Says it better than I possibly could. So God hath decreed in himself from all eternity by the most wise and holy council of his.

Own will.

Freely and unchangeably all things Whatsoever comes to pass yet. So as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein Nor is violence offered to the will of the creature Nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away but rather established in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things in power and faithfulness and Accomplishing his decree.