December 14, 2017 Show with Bryan Osborne on “Quick Answers to Tough Questions” (Part 2)

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now, here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 14th day of December 2017, and I just heard minutes ago, just less than five minutes ago, from a dear friend of mine,

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Pastor Josh Fryman of Community Baptist Church in Riverhead, Long Island, New York, who passed on to me an email about our beloved modern -day hero of the faith,

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Dr. R .C. Sproul. Ligonier Ministries has made the announcement official that the

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Sproul family has shared the sad news with us that our founder, Dr. R .C. Sproul, went home to be with the

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Lord this afternoon. Please pray for the Sprouls, and further updates will be available soon.

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So please do that. Pray for Vesta Sproul, his widow, and all in the family there in the

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Sproul household, and those who are relatives of the

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Sprouls, and those who worked with R .C., and I thank

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God that I had the opportunity on several occasions to see and hear him preach in person, had the opportunity to have a face -to -face conversation with him, actually made him laugh doing an impersonation of John Gerstner, who was his mentor, and I can remember when

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R .C. was preaching at the Calvary Baptist Church in Manhattan at a

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Bible conference during a break, I happened to work for a publisher, a

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Christian publisher at the time, Calvary Press, and they were bringing back into print a booklet written by Jonathan Edwards called

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Heaven, a World of Love. It was actually a chapter out of a larger work by Edwards, and they were publishing this book, and knowing of R .C.

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Sproul's love for Jonathan Edwards, I wanted him to endorse the booklet so that we could put his endorsement on the back cover of it, and I remember chasing

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R .C. Sproul into the men's room, and while he was standing there at the urinal,

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I told him about this booklet, Heaven, a World of Love. I told him that we at Calvary Press wanted him to write an endorsement, and then, believe it or not,

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I don't know, maybe three weeks, a month later, we got the endorsement in the mail.

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R .C. Sproul wrote the endorsement for it, and I was even more blown away when

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I had the opportunity to interview R .C. Sproul on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio program out of New York, out of WNYG and WGBB in Babylon, Long Island, New York, and I asked

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R .C.'s secretary if she would be willing to pass on my request to him afterwards to write an endorsement for my program if he enjoyed his interview, and I didn't have much hope to hear anything back, and then, sure enough,

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I got a phone call from R .C. Sproul's assistant or secretary, and she said,

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Dr. Sproul has written you an endorsement for Iron Sharpens Iron radio, and he does not use the computer, so do you want me to mail this endorsement that he has typed on letterhead, or do you want me to scan it and email it myself to you?

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I said email it to me because I wanted to get it immediately, and I was blown away by what he wrote, and many of you have seen that endorsement that he wrote for Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the masthead of my

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Facebook page and also on the ironsharpensironradio .com

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website, but I am kind of tongue -tied right now just having heard about this moments ago because of the fact that R .C.

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Sproul was a modern -day hero of mine. I really have benefited much more than I can even mention from his ministry, as I'm sure many of you have, and he will surely be missed, but as much as he may love the members of his family and those who are close to him,

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I'm sure he's not missing anybody right now. R .C. Sproul is face to face with the

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Lord Jesus Christ in indescribable bliss, and as someone once told me when my mother passed away from pancreatic cancer and went home to the

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Lord, they said to me, Chris, as much as you miss your mom where your mom is now, she doesn't miss being here, and she wouldn't return here even for a second just to give you comfort because she is in bliss and joy that we could never even fathom right now.

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So, but do pray for obviously the surviving members of the Sproul family because they no doubt will be going through a time of deep grief, and so will obviously those who work closely with him at Ligonier Ministries.

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But today we have on the program Brian Osborne, who is returning to Iron Sherpa Design Radio for part two of Quick Answers to Tough Questions, which is a book that has been published by our friends at New Leaf Publishing Group, and Brian Osborne is a blogger and a speaker and an author for Answers in Genesis and a teacher for the

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Answers Bible Curriculum, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa Design Radio, Brian Osborne.

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Chris, I'm just thrilled you had me back for a second time. I'm afraid I might have scared you off the first time, so praise God. Amen, well praise

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God that you could be here. And in studio with me is my co -host

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Charlie Liebert, who is the founder of sixdaycreation .com.

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It's great to have you back there, Charlie. Hello, good to see you. Good to see you, Brian. And before I even get, before I go back to Brian and get more details from Brian, Charlie, it's been a little bit since you've been on the program as a co -host or a guest, why don't you tell our listeners something about sixdaycreation .com.

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Okay, what's going on? I have published three books in the last two years, and the latest one has just come out.

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It has a very interesting title called, Without Three Miracles, Darwin's Dead. And it basically says that Darwinism cannot work because of three things that are wrong with it.

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Number one, something from nothing, which is impossible, first law. The universe is running down rather than up, that's the second law.

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And the third one is life from dead stuff, that's called biogenesis. And all three of those scientific laws were violated by evolution.

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So it's a great book. It just was published in the last couple of months. The promotion is just beginning now on social media. The other two relate to evangelism, and I've talked about those before.

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I'll get those again another time. Thanks, Chris. That's sixdaycreation .com. Yeah, that's the website, yes. sixdaycreation .com.

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Okay, even though we've had you and many other members of the staff there at Answers in Genesis on the program before, and they have given an explanation of that, we have been getting new listeners contacting us nearly every day who are discovering and joining the

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio audience. So I'd like you to repeat some of that information. Tell us about Answers in Genesis and exactly what you do there.

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Yeah, sure. No, absolutely. As you mentioned earlier, I'm a speaker for the ministry, also an author.

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The main thing I do is I travel and speak a whole lot on these biblical authority issues, defending God's Word from the very first verse.

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So I travel about 30 weekends a year, usually all over the states. I actually just went to Africa. I got to do a conference over there, be a part of a conference over there, and still speak to these issues.

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And the ministry itself, we like to say that this is not a debate ministry.

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It's not about winning a debate about the age of the earth or dinosaurs and stuff like that. What we're all about is defending biblical authority, where it's being attacked today, so we as Christians can stand on God's Word, know what we believe, why we believe it, and then use that foundation to boldly proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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And so that's the whole thrust of our ministry. That's the purpose behind the Creation Museum here in Northern Kentucky, just right below Cincinnati.

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It's also the point of the Ark Encounter. The listeners are probably familiar with the Ark Encounter more than Creation Museum, but the point of that is to draw people in to see that God's Word is true about all things, including the beginning.

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It's also right about the middle of the end, about salvation, and to proclaim the gospel boldly. And so everything we do is geared towards defending biblical authority.

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Praise God. And tell us about the Answers Bible curriculum. Yeah, absolutely.

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So we have multiple resources here at the ministry. We recognize and want to get answers into people's hands.

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They can come and see answers in the museum, hear a speaker, but they'll forget a lot of it in just a few days. So get the resources, the books, your

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DVDs in your hands. So resourcing is a big part of our ministry. And one of our ultimate resources is actually our

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ABC curriculum. It is a four -year Sunday school curriculum for six different age groups, from pre -K through adults.

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And what the curriculum does is it goes through the Bible chronologically, which is, you know, if you've never studied the

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Bible that way, going through the Bible chronologically is amazingly powerful. When you see the people and the major events in their proper order, the

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Bible, all of that really does make sense. And you see the gospel all the way through. And as we're going through that chronology, highlighting the gospel, we're answering skeptical questions, equipping

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Christians of all ages to defend the faith and proclaim the gospel. And really, there's just nothing like it on the market.

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It does everything that it does in just one solid curriculum. And as Kenneth said multiple times, it really is our ultimate response to the

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Genesis 3 attack of our day. Great. And let me remind our listeners of our email address if you'd like to join us on the air.

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It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. If you have a question, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if the question you're asking is about a personal and private matter.

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And that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Well, the last time that we had you on the program, among the things that we already discussed, so we will try our best not to repeat ourselves unless a listener writes in a question that would require that we repeat ourselves.

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And in some ways, it may be good for certain things to be repeated. But we already addressed much of the section in your book about a perfect creation.

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We addressed the argument against an old earth, largely due to that requiring death before the fall, which we as young earth creationists and Christians do not believe that was a possibility, according to what we read from God's word, obviously.

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We addressed the issue of the theory of aliens inhabiting the planet

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Earth and that we are their descendants. We addressed the issue of debunking the myth that Darwin had a deathbed recantation of evolution, which seems to be a popular myth that is being spread by Christians.

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We discussed the devil's first lie to Adam and Eve, and we discussed one of the most popular questions that skeptics of Christianity pose to Christians, and that is, who was

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Cain's wife? Where did he find her? We discussed the fact that we are all of one race, in spite of the common usage for centuries in terms of human beings having different races, black, white, yellow, red, brown, etc.

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But we discussed that we are all one race, the human race, and we all are different shades of brown.

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That's really what it is. We discussed issues involving the age of the earth.

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We discussed issues involving the size of the ark, and we addressed radiometric dating.

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And I forget, was that like an alternative to eHarmony, the radiometric dating? Just kidding.

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But I would like to start, actually, with a question already that I received from a listener, because I think it's a very good one.

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You already addressed it on the last program in part, but I'd like you to just add to it.

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We have Abraham in Meridian, Idaho, who says, in your opinion, what are one or two scientific facts, evidences that pose a challenge to a creationist?

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And the last time you answered that question as the radiometric dating was probably the toughest.

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But perhaps if you want to explain that further before you go on to other things that might be tough, or at least would give you a moment for pause.

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I mean, some of the answers, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm assuming that there could be some answers that involve speculation on your part rather than something that is clearly indicated in the inerrant word.

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But give us some of the, and you don't have to stick to one or two as Abraham is requesting.

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So if you want to start with explaining the radiometric dating part and move on to others.

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Sure. I would actually, I think I'll broaden the scope just a little bit the question to kind of bring home a key point of what we really deal with.

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Sure. I would first say this. I think that as I speak in a lot of places and engage a lot of people, the questions

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I hear most often usually deal with the age of the earth. And that typically involves, you know, distant starlight, radiometric dating that could include the rock layers and the so -called geologic column and different things like that.

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And sometimes evolution is thrown in the mix and so forth. And really what we're talking about here is the pervasive narrative of much of our culture to interpret things with this naturalistic worldview.

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So these different questions we get, these different proofs presented by the evolutionists for the age of the earth, whether it be radiometric dating or just the starlight or whatever it might be, it's not what we're talking about here.

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When I talk about evidence per se, we're talking about an interpretation of the evidence that is based on the assumption that you can explain all things through natural processes.

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I think the biggest fight we face in answering these questions is the naturalistic narrative of origins is so dominant within our culture today that most people, including most

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Christians, are inclined to believe it, right? And so they hear about the, you know, the idea of evolution in school, and they hear about these fundamental ideas in the textbooks, in zoos, in museums, on TV, when they watch movies, when they're watching, as they just scroll through Facebook.

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I mean, it's just pervasive. And so for so many, they think, well, if these ideas are so pervasive, they must be true.

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Even Christians kind of get caught up in that sort of thinking. And really what we're dealing with here is just a different interpretation of the same present -day evidence.

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And so what also we try to do as a ministry is to help people recognize that evidence exists in the present.

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Things like radioisotopes exist in the present. The existence of starlight exists in the present. Different people exist in the present.

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As far as how they got here, their age, and so forth, you must interpret these present -day things with a set of assumptions about the unseen past with a worldview.

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And if you start with the wrong assumptions, you'll get the wrong conclusions. And that's why the secularists are so wrong about certain things, especially with regards to history, like the age of the earth and so forth.

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And so that becomes really the big linchpin moment for a lot of people recognizing, okay, this is an interpretation issue more than an evidence issue.

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Same evidence, different interpretations. And Charlie Liebert, I wanted you to also get involved with a discussion on this, you being involved in apologetics.

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I know that, at least for a brief period, you worked with Ken Ham. Yes, I worked for Anson Genesis about two and a half years back in the 80s.

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In fact, give my regards to Mark Loy and Ken when you see him, okay? I will do so, absolutely.

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But I'd like you, Charlie, other than the things that I've listed, I don't know if you can remember them, but if you could bring up some things and address them to our guest here,

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Brian Osborne, about things that are common, most difficult questions that skeptics approach you with, not only unbelievers, but even old earth advocates, that are not softball, home run, knock them out of the park questions.

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These are you know, that gives you reason for pause.

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And then you cannot answer perhaps with absolute certainty because there's no explicit, clear teaching in the scriptures regarding the question.

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Yeah, the whole issue here really revolves around worldview and presuppositions. That's the heart of the matter.

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And I dealt with this in the first book that I wrote called Always Be Ready to Give an

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Answer. When you encounter unbelievers, the most important thing you can do for them is to get them to understand the presuppositions they come to the questions with.

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And the easiest way to do that is what Jesus did, is ask them questions. Why did you ask me that? If I tell you an answer to that, does that change your worldview at all?

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Does that make any more opportunity for you to become a Christian? So you probe to presuppositions because that's where the battle really is.

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The battle isn't on the evidence. The evidence is like he said before, the evidence is real and it's in the present. It's the interpretation of the evidence and it's the glasses you see through to see that evidence.

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The issue of races you've talked about, the issue of the age of the earth you've talked about, all those things are which glasses you're looking through.

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You're looking through biblical glasses with a scriptural worldview to know that the earth is basically about 6 ,000 years old and was created by God in six days.

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Or you're looking through the worldview that says, well, I'm not really sure about how it was created or where it was. That makes a big difference because people come to questions then with that presupposition.

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I've had encounters with atheists where I've simply asked them, would you ever consider Christ? And they say no.

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And I say, well, our conversation is over then. Why should I answer questions? There's no point in answering your questions if you've closed your mind to the possibility.

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Of course, I've got to be careful with that one because when I was a hardcore atheist, one person witnessed to me and when my conversion would happen, that memory came back.

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So you still need to plant the seeds, but you've got to remember that the discussion may be going nowhere. And don't get frustrated.

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Just continue to plant the seeds. Well, you gave how to approach tough questions, but you didn't actually give us an example of anything like that.

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Okay. The toughest question that I deal with is, well, there's really two parts.

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The first one is I'm a materialist. I believe only in things I can see, feel, sense, or touch.

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Therefore, there can't be a God. That's one of the questions. The other one is, well, what about that native in Africa that never heard the gospel?

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Does he still go to hell? That's a question you have to deal with. And that question takes some time to deal with. You can't deal with that in 30 seconds.

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That takes an explanation because you've got to get to the nature of man, a man's lost condition. You've got to explain, get them to understand that first.

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And then you've got to understand that God's mercy comes by God's grace alone. Obviously, though, that isn't really a tough question for a

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Christian who knows the answer to that. Even R .C. Sproul, who we know is now in glory, he had a sermon once that I heard at a

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Bible conference. What about the poor, innocent native in Africa? And he, after a probably a half hour sermon, at least, he concluded there is no poor, innocent native in Africa.

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They may be poor, of course, but they're not innocent. There is no innocent person. I had one fellow one time respond with, are you kidding?

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They eat each other. Well, obviously, that's broad -brushing the issue there.

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I know it is, but it was very funny at the time. Right. But I guess you don't really know of any tough questions then, do you,

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Charlie? I'll be honest. I've been a Christian over half my life, and I've gotten to the point where I think

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I can answer most questions except the ones that are impossible. Well, I have a question that, see,

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I'm not a scientist. I don't know how to answer this kind of a question, but perhaps both of you can answer, and I'll start with you,

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Brian. I know an old earth creationist who's a

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Christian. He's a conservative, but he's an old earther, and he is a geologist.

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He was a professor at a local, very prestigious university right here in Carlisle, Dickinson College.

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He said to me, there are no renowned geologists who believe in a young earth, and he said, there's got to be a reason for that other than just cowardice.

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There are Christians who are bold in their proclamation of their faith in the scientific world who are old earthers.

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They don't have a reason to protect their identity as a

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Christian, or they don't have a, they don't have a fear of revealing their identity as a

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Christian might be a better way of putting it, and they have come to a conclusion through scientific investigation that the earth is indeed millions of years older than a young earth

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Christian would claim. Now, how do you respond to that kind of a claim by a

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Christian? Yeah, that kind of goes back to the thing I was saying previously about the narrative that's so dominant in our world today about this older interpretation.

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It's so dominant. Basically, in our day and age, if you want to be a scientist, then you have to at least embrace to some degree the evolutionary dogma, at least to some, the majority.

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If you want to get anything published, you must be on the side of the naturalist. You must embrace that worldview.

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If you want to be a legitimate scientist, in our day and age, then of course you must believe in these ideas. And so the only people who are actually, who get published in the literature, who are in the journal for those who embrace the worldview already, and so it's kind of a self -fulfilling prophecy in a sense, where you say,

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I'll only let these certain people in, and yet they're the only experts we can actually quote from, therefore everybody believes this idea.

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That's part of that narrative that dominates the scientific culture of our day. And I would say that many

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Christians, again, they're kind of swallowed up in that, not recognizing the worldview that's driving that particular narrative.

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And so I mean, that would be the bigger issue I would say with them. I'd say you look at the actual features of the rock layers and fossils, and they just scream a rapid deposition, whether it's the nature of one rock layer being flat on top of another, or no signs of bio -turbation in the rock layers, the bent rock layers, the polystrate fossils.

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I mean, the fresh tissue is still undying, or soft tissue is still undying for bones. All these sort of things scream a rapid deposition, a recent deposition of these rock layers, and you have to kind of, you have to work hard to get around those from a naturalistic perspective.

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And so I would say it really goes back again to that worldview issue, and many Christians unknowingly have embraced the naturalistic worldview, at least in regards to the past, because they feel like they have to, because they think science has proven the idea of millions of years.

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And I would say, unlike this, just a quick summary, I think for so many Christian leaders especially, Christian pastors,

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Christian leaders in our culture today, they've confused operational science, here and now science, observable, testable, repeatable, falsifiable, with historical science, and trying to figure out what happened in the unseen past.

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And of course, history is not observable, testable, repeatable, or falsifiable. But for many

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Christian leaders, they're thinking, well, hey, if I embrace what the secular scientists say about operational science, then

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I'd be hypocrite not to embrace what they say about historical science, not recognizing those things are two very different fields, and historical science requires a worldview to engage the present -day evidence.

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And so they conflate those two things unknowingly, and not recognizing they're two very different things.

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And so I would go back to the worldview level initially, and then work from there as we engage the evidence.

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I have two comments on that. The first one is this, that's simply not true. There are very credible geological sciences working for institutional research, working for creation .com.

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No, when you say that's not true, you're not talking about what Brian said. No, I'm talking about the question that was posed.

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It says that all the geological scientists believe that the earth is old.

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That's simply not true. The second thing is, if you were a credible scientist in a university, and you suddenly decided creation was the answer, you're committing intellectual suicide.

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You're going to get fired. They're going to drive you out of the university instantly. You won't survive. Yeah, well, it does seem that some of the people that I've had face -to -face conversations with were not coming from an angle of fear, cowardice, or inconvenience, or trying to prevent inconvenience.

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They seem to be firmly committed, so much to the point that they are furious with young earth creationists because they believe that we are sharing the guilt in why men and women and children in our modern era are not coming to Christ because we are making a mockery of the

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Bible. We are an embarrassment because we are believing in things that are so out of date and disproven and all that.

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Perhaps I'll have you comment on that when we return, because we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, we do have some of you waiting to have your questions asked and answered already.

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By the way, Abraham in Meridian, Idaho, you have won a free copy of the book that we are discussing today by our friend

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Brian Osborne, Quick Answers to Tough Questions. So make sure that we have your full mailing address in Meridian, Idaho.

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But don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back. And our email address, once again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. If you have a question for our guest, don't go away.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. By the way, if you're ordering from CBBBS .com, if you're not calling them at their toll -free number, the way that you can tell them that you heard about them from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is when you're placing the order, when you click on the instructions button or the option for instructions.

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That's apparently the only way that you could tell them when you're ordering on the internet that you heard about them from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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But we are now back to our guest, Brian Osborne, a blogger, speaker, and author for Answers in Genesis, and a teacher for Answers Bible Curriculum.

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We are discussing part two of an interview we began in September on Quick Answers to Tough Questions, which is a book published by New Leaf Publishing Group.

38:32

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

38:37

And right before the break, Brian, I was saying that there are old earth creationists. I'm not going to,

38:44

I don't want anybody to think I'm broad -brushing that everybody that is an old earth creationist does this, but I have personally met some brethren in Christ who are quite hostile towards the young earthers because they believe that we are turning people away from Christianity and the

39:03

Bible, which is interesting that some of them who have said this to me are fellow Calvinists, and I don't know how

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Calvinists could come to that conclusion, because God's elect will be irresistibly drawn.

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I mean, you may go through a period of rejection, or rejecting, but you are eventually going to come to Christ.

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So it's kind of an odd statement for a Reformed person to make. But do you have any response to that?

39:31

I mean, you know, I understand where they're coming from in that line of thinking. Again, I think they've embraced the secular narrative about the past, and I think in many cases they don't recognize they're embracing that secular perspective by embracing that world.

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They're embracing essentially a naturalistic interpretation of present -day evidence to make a guess about the past based on man's ideas being lifted up higher than the

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Word of God as far as authority goes. I don't think they've recognized that. And then the other thing

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I will come back to with my fellow believers in Christ as we engage this issue, the ultimate authority for believers, for anyone, period, but for believers, as we try to understand this issue of origin and so forth, it should be the

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Word of God. The Bible is our ultimate authority. So as two different believers have a different opinion about something, we should take it to the

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Bible. What does the Bible say about this issue? What does the clear language of the text say, demonstrate?

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How should we apply that to our lives and our understanding of the past, present, and the future? God's Word is to be the ultimate authority.

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And so I just say, hey, I understand where you're coming from with that thinking, but you know, this is where I think you've got Australia embracing that worldview.

40:40

It's got to be the Bible first and foremost. What does the Bible clearly say about these issues and make that our authority and build our thinking from there?

40:48

We have a listener from Kannapolis, North Carolina. Do you know where that is,

40:54

Brian, being a North Carolinian? Well, looking at Charlie's bio here, he's in Greensboro, North Carolina.

41:00

That's really close to where I grew up in Thomasville. I don't recognize the other one, but I'm sure

41:06

I might recognize the area on the map if I saw it. Yes, I'm in Carlisle now, but I was in Greensboro for 43 years.

41:16

Okay, but my bio is I am in Carlisle now. But Kannapolis is about probably 15 miles north of Charlotte on 85.

41:29

Oh, absolutely, yeah. Well, we're all going to have dinner at our listener's house tonight.

41:34

Thanks for those directions. We'll be there at 630.

41:40

No, it will take a lot longer than that. We have Casey in Kannapolis, North Carolina, who says,

41:49

Will answers in Genesis help Eric Hovind with part two of his

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Genesis 3D movie. It would be a wonderful thing if AIG produced an apologetics

42:04

Bible. This is a different question. There is a demand for such a Bible with notes right now.

42:09

Is that a soon possibility? So you have two questions. Are you getting involved with the Eric Hovind 3D movie?

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And also, are you going to have a study Bible? As of right now, I don't know any plans for Eric himself as far as what he's going to do with the second part of the movie, how he's going to work that out and do that.

42:27

I'm sure he's trying just to catch his breath after this has been a multi -year venture for him. It's just completed.

42:33

I just saw the movie a couple of days ago. Really enjoyed it. It's really well done. And we praise God for the clear message it presents.

42:40

And so I'm looking forward to see what happens. We'll take that step by step. There's nothing that I know of right now as far as what we want to do with or not with Eric in regards to the second movie and what he's thinking there.

42:52

But we'll see what happens in the future. So if there's a great non -answer for you, which is going to be more specific, but I just don't know.

42:57

And then the second part of the question, I'd say we don't have a particular apologetics Bible that we've produced from us as of yet, but we do sell a couple that are really, really good.

43:08

Right now in our bookstore, we got one by Ray Comfort called The Evidence Bible, which is in a sense an apologetics

43:14

Bible, at least to a large degree, and it's well done. And of course I love Ray's passion for the gospel, and he just flows through the entire all of his notes.

43:23

And then we also have an apologetics Bible done by Henry Morse that has some of his footnotes on these issues that you got there.

43:30

So two good resources that we have available right now. I'm sure you can find those on the website.

43:36

But as far as one that's more current today from the research we've done recently, that's not available and that's not on the radar just yet.

43:46

We'll see. We have so many irons right now in the fire. We'll see what happens in the future.

43:54

I would put a plug in for the answers, not the ICR, Henry Morse Bible, that's called

44:00

The Defender's Bible. Those notes are incredible. That's Dr. Morse's basic, his life work put in the notes there, and it's very valuable for Christians that want to be apologists.

44:11

Absolutely, yep. Well guess what, KC in Kannapolis, North Carolina, you have won a free copy of the book that we are discussing today,

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Quick Answers to Tough Questions, by our guest Brian Osborne of Answers in Genesis. So please make sure we have your full mailing address in Kannapolis, North Carolina.

44:30

So cvbbs .com can ship that out to you at no charge to you or to us.

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And we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for being so faithful in their support of Iron Trip and Zion Radio and shipping out all of the winners in our audience their free

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Bibles and books and DVDs and CDDs. CDDs? Their CDs and other things that they win when they submit questions to us.

44:56

That is an enormous help to us, and we thank them very much. We have

45:02

Joe in Slovenia who says, Dear Brothers Chris and Brian, and I'll add in there

45:11

Charlie even though he didn't say that. Thanks for giving your time to serve the body of Christ today.

45:21

As you know, vegetarianism and its many derivatives is popular in our day.

45:29

Some point to Genesis 1 .29 as proof that God's perfect design is that man only have a plant -based diet.

45:37

The question then becomes, during all of man's exceeding wickedness from Genesis 4 through 6, did mankind refrain from sinning the sin of eating meat?

45:48

Furthermore, why did God then give Noah and his descendants permission to eat animal flesh?

45:55

In Genesis 9 .2 -3, what is the scriptural explanation of this aspect of progression in the biblical revelation?

46:03

He's kind of almost answering his own question there in some way. The Seventh Day Adventists would be probably the most common that would use arguments that we should not be eating meat even though it was clear

46:15

Jesus ate fish. It was clear that the

46:21

Apostle Paul was even saying that there was nothing innately wrong to eating meat sacrificed to an idol, but he would not do it if it made a brother stumble.

46:29

But so we have obviously clear biblical examples, including the vision that Peter received, that meat is okay.

46:37

But if you could respond to our guest, I mean our listener I should say, in Slovenia. Sure, no,

46:44

I mean you really addressed the main issues there of course already with Peter and Paul and Jesus and those issues.

46:50

I would also, just kind of go back to what the listener already quoted from Genesis 9 .2, where God told

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Noah after the flood, just as they gave you plants to eat, now you can eat everything. Which as we often joke in the ministry, that is why we can eat hot dogs.

47:06

Very good, good answer. But you know, and so yeah, so you get that commandment after the flood.

47:13

Now why did God permit man to eat meat after the flood? Let me back up a little bit.

47:18

He asked that people violate that commandment just as 4 through 6, and I don't know about you Chris, but I'm thinking if man was exceedingly wicked in that time frame before the flood, if there's murder, if there's rape, if there's child sacrifice,

47:31

I'm imagining eating meat would not be something that would honor, right? That's where they draw the line.

47:40

No, I'm not going to do that. Let's bring veggie burgers to the human sacrifice. Yeah, I don't think that's going to work out, no pun intended.

47:50

So I mean, I imagine they are violating that command, but why did God allow them afterwards? I think we can make some educated guesses,

47:56

I don't know if we can be dogmatic. I'm kind of wondering, this is just Brian talking, after the flood, get off the ark, the world's been destroyed, there's not a lot of vegetation, how much food do you have as a resource via plant?

48:09

Now you plant seeds and crops, but is there less food available for people as they multiply? Maybe that's part of the reasoning.

48:16

That's just a guess on my part. Biblically definitive, I can't think of anything off the top of my head as to why that shift occurred.

48:24

What do you think Charlie? I would follow through on that and say that the environment before the flood, and I'm still a canopy theorist, so Ken and I will differ on this one, but the environment before the flood was so lush that the plants were very adequate to give a full diet to all the living creatures.

48:41

After that fact, the plants just aren't thriving as much, and animals are going to be driven to carnivorous behavior.

48:47

So as a result of that, we're going to have a less lush vegetation, so we're going to need to get other sources of food.

48:54

All food comes to us through that photosynthetic process, but animals can produce food in addition to the plants at a much more rapid rate.

49:02

So you get maybe two harvests a year, but you've got animals that are reproducing and producing food all the time.

49:12

I'd like to say too, in regard to that, I think Charlie would agree. I call what we just did there an educated biblical guess.

49:19

It's based on biblical context, it's based on a biblical worldview. The Bible's not explicit, but it does seem to make good sense within the biblical narrative.

49:26

Yeah, none of that is for certain, that's all guessing based upon what the scripture tells us.

49:33

But we have to do that a lot when we deal with the world around us, because the world has got all kinds of ideas that are faulty, based upon biblical guesses.

49:40

Absolutely. And in fact, the scriptures even say that a brother that doesn't eat meat is a weaker brother.

49:49

By the way, I believe you mentioned this the last time, Charlie, but why don't you, since you brought it up, why don't you explain what a canopy theory is?

49:57

I have a gazebo theory, but if you want to tell us what it is. The question becomes, there's a couple of evidences we have.

50:06

We have giantism in the fossil record, that is very large creatures compared to the ones we have alive today. We've got giant insects, we've got large other creatures that are fossilized, so we know that the creatures existed.

50:17

And we also have the great longevity in the pre -flood world. So the question becomes, why is that?

50:24

And there's two explanations. The one that Ken would probably respond to, and I'm putting words in his mouth, so if he gets angry, tell him,

50:31

I apologize. It's basically the strong genetics at the beginning.

50:37

And I would say, well, I think it's also the environment, because the canopy theory simply says that when God separated the waters from the waters, he put waters above the atmosphere, compressing it to one and a half, two times the present pressure.

50:48

That does two things. It creates longevity, and it creates giantism. So that would be my response to that.

50:53

Now, that's my educated guess. Other creationists will differ with me dramatically and say, no, it's not, and because there are some certain scientific studies that say that that canopy is impossible.

51:03

So that's a contention, and it's based upon a biblical guess. Who's right? The Lord will answer that question someday.

51:13

That leads me to another question, and I don't know if I asked you or one of your colleagues answers in Genesis this before, but do you guys have any debates among you, either in private or, more importantly, in public, where you disagree, even as young Earth creationists, on things?

51:31

And you go head to head on that. You're trying to get me in trouble, aren't you?

51:43

No, we have 100 % agreement in all things, at all times. Yeah, no, we really do.

51:55

There are definitely some issues where, even within the ministry, we'll have different views on all certain things in regards to the

52:02

Bible, different biblical teachings, ecclesiology, or whatever, or even in relation to origins.

52:07

And so we do hash those things out. We'll have meetings where we'll sit down, and we'll really kind of go through it together.

52:13

We'll get to look at the biblical text. People present different views, and we'll really try to hash these out together. And as your radio show says, be iron that sharpens iron.

52:22

That's what we're trying to do there, really understand God's Word. So yeah, we have some good conversations that are competitive, might be a good word.

52:32

And what we always try to do, I say it like this often, is we try to recognize the difference between the clear difference between what the

52:39

Bible says and our models based on a guess, as far as biblical context.

52:44

And we say, we hold the Word of God with a clenched fist. The Bible is our ultimate authority. But our models, our scientific models that we're using, we're trying to use, we're trying to explain what we think happened there, we hold our models with an open hand, recognizing that our scientific models may change, they may be altered, they may be wrong.

53:02

God's Word does not change. So the text we hold on with a firm grip, our models with an open hand. Amen. And I think it might be wise to repeat something that we've already said, that we do not believe that this is a litmus test for brotherhood or salvation.

53:17

If you are an old earth creationist, you could still be a born -again Bible -believing Christian, we just don't believe you're correct.

53:24

Right. And we're going to our midway break right now, it's a longer break than normal, but we have to do this because of the requirements of Grace Life Radio 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida. So be patient with us, and God willing, we'll be back right after this break with Brian Osborne and more quick answers to tough questions.

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Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org. That's lynbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back. This is

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Chris Arns. And if you just tuned us in, our guest for the full two hours today is Brian Osborne, a blogger, speaker, and author for Answers in Genesis.

01:02:44

He's also a teacher for Answers Bible Curriculum. We are addressing part two of a discussion we began in September, and that is part two of Quick Answers to Tough Questions, a book by our guest

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Brian Osborne that has been published by New Leaf Publishing Group. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:03:13

And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:03:19

USA, and only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter.

01:03:25

Perhaps you disagree with your own pastor over something we're discussing, or perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination over something, or perhaps you disagree with our guest and you just don't feel comfortable identifying yourself.

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Whatever the case is, we will honor your request to remain anonymous, but please, if it's not about a personal matter, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

01:03:48

Before I return to our discussion, I just have a couple of important announcements to make.

01:03:54

Well, first of all, the G3 conference is going to be returning to Atlanta, Georgia.

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I love this conference. I went for the first time last January, and I'm scheduled to be returning this coming

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January 17th through the 20th at the Georgia International Convention Center.

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The first night, the 17th, well, let me start with the daytime before I get to the night.

01:04:25

The first day on the 17th is a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference on the theme,

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Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship, and that will continue through most of the day, but then in the evening at 7 p .m.

01:04:39

on January 17th, the English -speaking conference begins with a debate.

01:04:47

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is going to be debating a Muslim apologist, and I will get you more details on his name and on the topic at some point in the very near future.

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And then on the following day, the 18th through the 20th, the

01:05:06

English part of the conference begins with a roster, a very long roster of speakers, including

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Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles Jr., who is our guest tomorrow, by the way, on Iron Challies, Josh Bice, James White, Tom Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, Martha Peace, Justin Peters, and Stephen Nichols.

01:05:31

If you would like to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

01:05:38

Please, if you register, or even if you just contact them for more information about the conference, please tell them that you heard about it from Chris at Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:05:48

And now, last but not least, comes that very difficult time of each program, that most unpleasant portion of the program where I have to beg you for money, because we are literally in very realistic jeopardy of going off the air.

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Our finances are so desperate right now that we are really in need of donations and new advertisers in order to remain on the air.

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If you love this program, you don't want us to disappear, if you look forward to hearing it every day, then please go to irontripandzionradio .com,

01:06:27

click on support, and mail us a check of any amount you can afford made payable to Iron Trip and Zion Radio to the address that you see when you click on support.

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And as I always try to remember to remind you, never, ever take money, siphon money out of your giving to your local church where you're a member,

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I never want you to do that. Never take food off of your family's dinner table if you're struggling to make ends meet.

01:06:53

But if you have been blessed financially, where it is comfortable for you to give, be above and beyond, or should

01:07:03

I say, if you are able to, if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands in the

01:07:10

Bible to provide for your home and your church, then please consider donating to us as much as you can and as often as you can if you love the show, if you don't want us to go away.

01:07:21

And if you want to advertise with us, please just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:07:29

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line, whether it is your church, your para -church organization, your business, your professional practice, like if you're a lawyer, a doctor, a dentist, a chiropractor, if it's a special event you're having, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is not in conflict with the theology expressed on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, then we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we certainly need the advertising dollars to remain on the air.

01:07:58

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line.

01:08:06

And that's also the email address for you to send in a question for our guest Brian Osborne.

01:08:11

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

01:08:19

Please give us, as I said before, your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:08:27

USA. And Brian, I'd like you to, before I go to any more listener questions,

01:08:38

I would like you to let me know and our audience know what you think are non -negotiables when it comes to the issue of the origins of creation and so on.

01:08:54

There are, you know, views that would even overstep the boundaries that even go beyond what old earth creationists would believe as Christians.

01:09:05

Can you tell us about something that you would say, now I would absolutely condemn this with the most vociferous opposition that I could muster because this is where we have to say, no,

01:09:18

I'm sorry, you cannot identify yourself as a Christian and believe in this. Yeah, well, that's kind of a big question.

01:09:27

There's a lot of different facets to that question, the way you approach it. I would draw a distinction between, you know, the things

01:09:36

I would say are non -negotiable as Christians. I would still put in that category as far as what we should believe in alignment with God's Word about the six -day creation, the text around the word debate around Yom and Genesis, and then

01:09:50

Exodus 20, 11, 4, and 6 days, and Jesus referred to that as real people, the same thing with Paul, and that happens to be real history.

01:09:58

The genealogy is given around an age of around 6 ,000 years for the age of the earth. That's all clear from Scripture, clearly implied.

01:10:04

I think as Christians, if we're going to stand on God's Word, then we embrace those truths, and we'll see that real science confirms those.

01:10:11

Now, as far as being saved, I mean, that's going to get to, you know, back to the core

01:10:17

Reformation message, we're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, plus nothing. And so, if someone's truly embraced that truth, and Christ is their

01:10:27

Lord, then yes, they're going to be, they're going to repent of their sins, they're going to be saved, but they still have some wrong theology, which, by the way,

01:10:37

I'm sure 10 years from now, I might look on a couple things I think, and think, wow, I'm glad God changed that in me, as I've done the last 10 years of my life now.

01:10:45

So, I would draw a line of distinction between being saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, as opposed to these things,

01:10:54

I think, that are biblical truths, that if we're going to be consistent as Christians, we must stand on God's Word and embrace these truths.

01:11:03

And one of the things that is most concerning to me about those that oppose what we believe, is where the historical

01:11:19

Adam and Eve are becoming less and less viewed as essential for us to even believe the scriptures to be inerrant, to even believe in the genealogy of Jesus Christ himself.

01:11:35

I mean, there are so many questions that arise, and the thing that troubles me, that adds to me being disturbed about this, is that there doesn't seem to be a real compelling reason for Christians to believe that.

01:11:52

I mean, I don't even understand why there seems to be a gravitational pull of Christians in the scientific world, outside of the fear of losing their careers, or even

01:12:06

Christians in general, towards this view, especially when you're talking about evolution, because you have even secular scientists abandoning this view, don't they?

01:12:18

Many of them? You know, it's interesting you bring this up. I was just reading an article about this today from our magazine, and I talk about my book a little bit too, about how both

01:12:27

Adam and Eve are essential to the Gospel, but if you look at the compromise the Church embraced, starting from the 1500s, you have the

01:12:35

Reformation, there's a call back to the authority of God's Word, and so Christians do that for a while, 1600s, late 1600s, 1700s, you have the

01:12:43

Enlightenment come, and people start to argue you don't need the Bible to explain the natural world, then you get to the 1800s, and we don't need

01:12:51

God at all, we can explain the rock layers and the fossils, and even the origin and life of God according to the secular humanists of the day, and when the idea of millions of years became popular at that time, and of course

01:13:01

Darwin in the 1850s popularized evolution, but what many Christians did up to that point was they compromised the

01:13:08

Word of God, the issue of the age of the earth, they compromised with the rock layers being laid down over millions of years as a result of Noah's flood, they compromised all of those

01:13:16

Biblical teachings, but then they drew an arbitrary line in the sand when it came to human evolution later on with Darwin, because many of them recognized, but wait a minute, evolution is true, and Adam wasn't a real person, and where did sin come from?

01:13:29

Why is death a consequence for sin, and why is Jesus called the last Adam of Jesus Christ? They recognized both

01:13:34

Adams are essential to the So they compromised a lot of the Biblical teaching about origin up to the point of a literal

01:13:43

Adam, in many cases, and they drew an arbitrary line there, but then the Sanctars come back and they've been pressing us on this for years now, and say, well wait a minute, if you take man's ideas and reinterpret all the other parts of Biblical origin, why not take man's ideas and reinterpret the origin of mankind and Adam himself?

01:14:00

You're being inconsistent, Christian, and actually, they're right. When Christians embrace compromising one part and try to sell

01:14:07

Biblical authority to another, they are being inconsistent, and that inconsistency, that waffling, is what has caused so much of the second world to just scoff at many

01:14:15

Christians, saying you don't know what you believe, you're going between two different views, and again, that reminds us of the need as Christians to stand on the authority of God's word from the very first verse all the way through, and when we do that, we do have consistency, and we have a

01:14:31

Biblical authority for the worst, and we need a Savior, and so forth and so on, although without that, we're destroying our own foundation.

01:14:39

We have a listener in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, Ronald, who says, can you tell us about some very recent discoveries in science that helped bolster the young earth creationist model?

01:14:55

One of the biggest things we're seeing, just so many things, I'm sure Charlie can speak to this as well, but genetics, in every different division of science, we're seeing advances, but genetics, to me, just pops out.

01:15:07

The more we research genetics, particularly in the human genome, we're recognizing that, wow, the

01:15:13

Biblical truth and teaching that we all come from one man and one woman, that there is just one race, the human race, that is being affirmed and affirmed time and again by our modern advances in genetics.

01:15:23

Some of the most recent advances have shown us that every person on planet earth is genetically 99 .9

01:15:29

% identical. The difference between 82 people on planet earth is roughly 0 .01 % of their

01:15:35

DNA. That just screams one blood, one race. Back in 2012, some recent literature on genetics pointed out that it looks like less than 5 ,000 years ago, the human genome began to rapidly diversify, which is when you have the floods and the

01:15:52

Tower of Babel, and then they also said from the research, it looks like the human genome, over time, is getting worse, not better, which is your second law of thermodynamics, which

01:16:00

Charlie has in his book, Without Three Miracles, Darwin's Dead, and those are great points, and so genetics is a great example.

01:16:08

You can trace the Y chromosome back to a common female ancestor, or I'm sorry, the mitochondrial DNA back to a common female ancestor, the

01:16:14

Y chromosome back to a non -common ancestor, who lived roughly about 6 ,000 years ago. If you start with a wild assumption that humans are only related to humans, there's a modern mutation rate throughout time, and so we can go on with those examples, but just major confirmations again and again.

01:16:30

I would give you one other example, which is, to me, it's kind of exciting. That is, there have been 14 published studies in the journals, scientific journals, indicating dinosaur

01:16:41

DNA available. That's a huge falsification of evolution, because if dinosaurs are extinct 65 million years, there's no way biological material can survive even for a couple thousand years, so those studies that show that up, those

01:16:56

DNA samples, particularly the ones in the red blood cells, I mean, just mind -boggling that the

01:17:02

DNA is there, and that should, if you were on a science, you should say, well, something's wrong with our dates, but they won't say that, of course, because their presuppositions dominate.

01:17:12

Now, we brought this up in one of our past programs, but what you're talking about is the flesh that was on some dinosaur bones.

01:17:20

Yes, on some dinosaur bones that were not fully fossilized, there was some fleshly material on the bone itself, and that flesh has yielded dinosaur

01:17:29

DNA. And how recent was this? Well, there's 14 studies published in the last 10 years. And has this has the fruit of this been in any way promising for scientists to back away,

01:17:48

I'm talking about secular scientists, to back away from their presuppositions? No, they can't.

01:17:54

They can't back away from the presuppositions, so they have one theory that the presence of iron causes these things to be preserved for millions of years.

01:18:03

And of course, that's just foolishness, because it's not going to happen that way. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

01:18:10

You know, Chris, I talk about this often when I talk about dinosaurs, and I talk about the fresh soft tissue that we're finding in the dinosaur bones still there, it can't last more than thousands of years.

01:18:19

And then I don't even ask the audience, you know, do you think this will convince the evolutionists they're wrong about their dates?

01:18:26

To answer the question, the answer is no. Because ultimately, as we started off talking earlier, this issue, it's not a head issue.

01:18:33

It's a heart issue. It becomes a worldview issue. And your worldview tells you to interpret what you're looking at to make it fit your preconceived ideas.

01:18:43

And to show an example of this, I'll show a clip of Mary Schweitzer. She's a brilliant, nice scientist who found a particular sample of the soft tissue in a

01:18:51

T -Rex bone. And it's been validated numerous times, and we know it's soft tissue, and it shouldn't be there within the secular thinking.

01:18:58

So I'll show a clip of her talking about this and being blown away that it's still around. And so what is her conclusion approaching this stuff from an evolutionary perspective?

01:19:07

She says this, there must be some natural process that we haven't observed yet that's somehow preserving these things for millions of years.

01:19:18

That's called a miracle. Exactly. And she's appealing to the unknown. And again, you know, that's what you see again and again.

01:19:26

So it's not the head issue. It's the heart issue that becomes the worldview issue. Now, was she originally saying that?

01:19:32

Wasn't she starting to rethink the age of these remains?

01:19:40

I'm not seeing any recent updates. I tracked her for a little while. I know once she initially published her data,

01:19:47

I'm sure you know, she got just attacked as a blitzkrieg. That's what I mean. Why was she attacked if she was capitulating to the old earth understanding or especially the millions of years?

01:19:59

She was attacked for presenting the idea that there's legitimate soft tissue in the dinosaur bones.

01:20:05

It wasn't even about the age. Just the fact you found a soft tissue period. And she'll say, no, this is real soft tissue. These are blood vessels.

01:20:10

They were blood cells. The secularists were saying that's impossible because it's millions of years old. And she went through many steps to validate her findings.

01:20:18

And it came back again and again through multiple studies. Now, this is the real deal. It's real soft tissue. It's real blood vessels.

01:20:23

It's real red blood cells. And so that's been authenticated a number of times. But again, as far as why it's there, she comes to a different interpretation based on her worldview.

01:20:35

We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know if you can name any scientists that were formerly believers in evolution and a millions of years old earth who have recanted that view, even if they did not become

01:20:52

Christians. I'll make a comment on that right away. Yes. Dr. Gary Parker. Dr.

01:20:58

Gary Parker is a biologist, a PhD. And he, in his testimony, talks about that he was teaching evolution in college.

01:21:06

And he was confronted by some students with some questions. And he began to study and he ultimately became a

01:21:12

Christian. So there's one example that I know of for certain. And there's quite a few scientists around here who

01:21:20

I know of who initially as Christians embraced an old earth idea. And then later on, as they looked at it from a biblical perspective and gauged the evidence that on God's word, their minds were changed to believe in the earth creation and get passionate about that particular issue as either believer or even a non -believer before they got saved.

01:21:38

I believe that's true also of Dr. Danny Faulkner. I don't know for sure, but I think that is true also in his case. He's an astronomer.

01:21:46

Yeah, he's an astronomer. I'm not sure if that's his background or not. It wouldn't make sense. I know Dr. Tommy Mitchell talks about being a theistic evolutionist before he got turned around on this and others as well.

01:21:58

Thank you, BB. And keep listening to Orange Herb & Zion Radio. If you did not already win a copy of the book that we are discussing, quick answers to tough questions, we'll ship one out to you.

01:22:08

I just don't have those records from our last interview with Brian.

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So I don't know if you've already won a copy of the book that goes with everybody so far. If you have not won a copy already, you will receive one

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01:22:28

And that's compliments of our friends at New Leaf Publishing Group. Before we go to the break,

01:22:37

I want you to discuss the pillars or the most important things that you believe everyone listening should know when it comes to this issue of creation and a refutation of the secular humanist understanding of evolution and even the old earth

01:23:04

Christian understanding. The core things that we should be remembering. I would say that number one, as a minister, this is our backbone.

01:23:14

It's what we stand on. Number one, this is a biblical authority issue, and that's why it's so important. This is not a trivial side issue about the age of the earth.

01:23:23

It's ultimately dealing with biblical authority. Can we trust the Bible in all that it says? Because either the

01:23:28

Bible is the authority in all things or it's the authority in nothing. And so that would be issue number one.

01:23:34

And I would say that for so many people in our day and age, they think you can't trust the

01:23:39

Bible. Why? Because it's been disproved in their minds by modern day science. It's been disproved by things like evolution,

01:23:45

Aden, Big Bang, Millions of Years. And it's really been those sorts of ideas that the enemies use to attack biblical authority to undermine the gospel based in that authority.

01:23:55

And so that would be issue number one. It's an authority issue, biblical authority issue. Number two, it's going to be a gospel issue in relation to biblical authority, because ultimately the gospel is the answer to the problems of our culture.

01:24:10

The gospel is a preeminent, but the gospel stands on the authority of God's Word, which begins in the book of Genesis.

01:24:18

We've got to recognize the gospel doesn't begin in the book of Matthew. It begins, in fact, in Genesis chapter one, verse one. That's where the gospel actually starts, with the revealed

01:24:25

Word of God. And so recognizing that that's a huge issue, the gospel stands on the authority of God's Word.

01:24:31

Another big one is, no matter how you try to do it, if you try to squeeze Millions of Years into God's Word, day -age theory, gap theory, possessive creation, theistic evolution, framework, hypothesis, chaotic temple, whatever, they all put death before sin, which is theologically impossible for multiple reasons, and it undermines the gospel.

01:24:51

Because if there's death before sin, then death would not be the payment for sin. And if death isn't the payment for sin, then

01:24:57

Jesus' death does not pay our sin debt. And that's why, as I often say, that's why we are so passionate about this stuff, because that's what it gets down to.

01:25:07

Biblical authority and the gospel based in that authority. And then also, as Christians, we need to recognize that this is a battle of worldviews.

01:25:14

Same present -day evidence, two different interpretations. Either God's Word is true, or it's man's word that is the ultimate authority.

01:25:21

As Christians, we stand on God's Word, and when we do that, we can actually then answer the skeptical questions of this age, defend our faith, and then boldly proclaim the gospel, which is what changes hearts and minds, which

01:25:33

God can use to change people from the inside out, and change the culture. So those would be some of the big main points

01:25:39

I'd really want to drive home. Do you have anything to add to that, Charles? No, I think he's pretty much covered it, though.

01:25:44

The whole issue is, what worldview do you start with? You look through biblical glasses, or you look through secular glasses?

01:25:50

And there's really only two. There's really only two choices. Now, the old earth

01:25:57

Christians are more than eager to tell anyone willing to listen that science and faith need not be in conflict.

01:26:09

And the way that they normally explain that is that the secular scientists who have unbiblical, even anti -biblical, understandings of the origins of the universe, they will say, the reason why there's harmony between faith and science is because the old -fashioned young earth folks got it all wrong.

01:26:34

But how do you approach that issue of faith and actual science being in harmony?

01:26:42

And I'm not talking about what scientists believe that are outside of the realm of those who believe in biblical inerrancy.

01:26:50

I'm talking about what genuinely proven science. How do you answer the question to the skeptic who says, are science and the

01:27:02

Bible at enmity with one another? I would say they're absolutely not.

01:27:08

If you look at the evidence that confirms the Bible again and again, I would say, ultimately, going back to the worldview issue, and people get wrong conclusions based on wrong assumptions.

01:27:21

I would also say that science is only possible because the Bible is true. If you think about it from a pre -self -decisional standpoint, the

01:27:29

God of the Bible made not only the material world, He also made the immaterial world. He made the laws of nature.

01:27:36

He made the laws of logic. He made the laws of morality that are intrinsic within us. He made these immaterial realities that are absolutely true and unchanging.

01:27:45

And because the laws of nature are true and unchanging, we can do science. But laws of nature, like laws of gravity, physics, and chemistry, they're immaterial.

01:27:53

How do you explain their origin in a naturalistic -only universe? And if evolution is true and everything changes over time, why don't the laws of nature randomly change?

01:28:02

That does not make sense within the evolutionary worldview, but consistent within the biblical worldview. And so the reason you can do science to begin with is

01:28:09

God made both the material world and the immaterial world, so we can do scientific experiments, get consistent results, and build knowledge, invest in technology and medicine.

01:28:17

And so science is only possible because the Bible is true. And so you can start from that level as well.

01:28:24

And so, and again, I would say as far as, you know, science versus religion, is that really the battle?

01:28:30

Not at all. What we see in our culture today is actually a religion versus religion battle.

01:28:36

Two different religious interpretations of the same present -day evidence. Back to that foundational issue, either

01:28:41

God's word is true or man's word is true. My response is going to be to ask the question, what past event can you prove by science?

01:28:50

And the answer is going to be none. You can only prove in the present things that are true in the present. So the whole idea of interpreting the past through science is really a myth, because science doesn't address what happened yesterday.

01:29:03

If we could do that perfectly, we would never need a criminal trial, because we'd know what happened.

01:29:09

We don't know what happened. And of course, they will say that carbon -14 dating and things like that help to prove...

01:29:16

They help to give you a indication, but they don't prove anything. But is it an accurate indication?

01:29:23

Well, carbon -14, there's a lot of assumptions built in there, okay? A lot of assumptions are built into radiometric dating in general.

01:29:32

Sure. Yeah, I mean, again, we're going to say, you know, recognizing that carbon -14, uranium, the red isotopes, and so forth, all of those radioactive isotopes exist in the present and must be interpreted with a worldview set of assumptions about the unseen past.

01:29:46

And so if you're an evolutionist or a naturalist, you start with the assumption that natural processes have always happened at the rate at which they occur today, until the unseen past.

01:29:55

If you look at present -day race, you calculate backwards to come up with an age. But that is just fraught with assumptions, not the least of which is the basic assumption that the

01:30:03

Bible's history is not true. So therefore, you're definitely not being neutral, and you're starting with an anti -biblical worldview.

01:30:09

So again, it comes down to a battle of interpretation based on which foundation you start with. And you started with the presupposition of uniformitarianism, that everything is at the same rate.

01:30:20

We can show events we've witnessed, Mount St. Helens, for example, that that's not true. Things don't happen at the same rate.

01:30:26

They happen at radically different rates, depending upon the circumstances. The Mississippi River Delta is an example

01:30:32

I use in my book. How long did it form? Well, you can make all kinds of measurements, but you're always going to guess, because there are flood years and drought years, and you can't factor all that in there and get a true answer, because science is interpretive.

01:30:45

And when we come back from our final break right now, I'd like to ask you both, because— I'm going to be gone, Chris. Oh, that's right.

01:30:51

You have to leave early. I have to leave early, yes. Well, I'll have Brian respond to my question involving the fact that old

01:31:01

Earth creationists are saying that Mount St. Helens proves their point, not disproves their point.

01:31:08

So perhaps if you could— Wow. Oh, you haven't heard that? No. Oh, well, the folks that collaborated on the

01:31:18

Grand Canyon book have brought that up. Wow. I want to hear this. I want to hear that too.

01:31:24

Well, I can't repeat it right now, because I don't remember it. I thought that you guys would have heard. No, I haven't heard that either.

01:31:29

That's a new one for me. Okay. All right. Well, we're going to our final break right now, and if you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:31:38

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back, God willing, with Brian Osborne.

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You'll get that absolutely free with your purchase of $50 or more, and that's a $14 value. And don't forget that Solid Ground Christian Books also needs your help by ordering from them.

01:38:37

Please order as much from them as possible during the holiday season, and you could kill two birds with one stone by ordering

01:38:45

Solid Ground Christian Books titles from cvbbs .com,

01:38:50

because cvbbs .com is not a publisher, and Solid Ground Christian Books is. So go to solid -ground -books .com,

01:38:59

make a list of all the books that you want that they publish, and then go to cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com,

01:39:06

and order those books. And please, as I said before, always remember to click on instructions when you're making your order.

01:39:16

I think you can only click on that after you've made your order or placed your order when it comes to the shipping and all that.

01:39:22

And you could add in those instructions that you heard about cvbbs .com from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

01:39:30

We are now returning to our final 20 minutes of the program with our guest

01:39:38

Brian Osborne, who is the author of Quick Answers to Tough Questions.

01:39:43

He's also a blogger, a speaker, and author for Answers in Genesis, and a teacher for Answers Bible Curriculum.

01:39:50

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And if you would like to do that,

01:39:55

I would do it now before we run out of time. I also want you to know, for some reason,

01:40:01

I'm having a real difficult time finding this on their website right now.

01:40:07

I don't know if they've canceled this, or if it's just because of my own stupidity, my own lack of technological savviness.

01:40:17

But the Bosler Memorial Library in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I live, is having an event for every

01:40:27

Wednesday in January, starting January 10th. And this series of events involves a professor from Shippensburg University.

01:40:40

And since I can't find all of the details, you're going to have to find them on your own.

01:40:45

But it is a four -week event 10th, 17th, 24th, and 31st in the evening at Bosler Memorial Library in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where this professor from Shippensburg University, who's a science instructor, he is going to be talking about faith and science colliding and how to figure this all out.

01:41:13

And I have no idea if he is an atheist or a Christian. I have no idea about anything.

01:41:18

But I do plan on attending, and I hope that you pray for me and Charlie Liebert, who do plan on attending, so that we can voice our opinions during question and answer sessions.

01:41:30

So if you'd like more information, perhaps you could find the information more quickly than I can, but you could go to the

01:41:39

Bosler Memorial Library website. And what you do is you go to cumberlandcountylibraries .org

01:41:51

forward slash B -O -S underscore C -I -L -L.

01:41:58

And that's all caps, B -O -S underscore C -I -L -L. And hopefully many of you who are savvy at these things can help me find this information, because I can't even find it anymore.

01:42:13

But anyway, that's something to keep in prayer. Let's see, here's one from our listener

01:42:24

Robert in White Plains, Westchester County, New York, who asks, are there things that young earth creationists have pointed out to be falsehoods in the propaganda of the evolutionists that have finally been irrefutably refuted, unquestionably proven to be false, that the evolutionists have admitted to?

01:42:59

Yeah, I think the best example you'll find of this, and I'm sure it's in many other disciplines as well, but in regards to the so -called ape men, different ape men presented in the past as just rock -hard evidence for the end of evolution.

01:43:14

Of course, as I'm sure you're familiar, Piltdown Man comes to mind very quickly, and then

01:43:20

Nebraska Man, and others where basically secular scientists of those times, early 1900s, mid -1900s, were interpreting fragments of evidence for the evolutionary bias, or some of it was even falsified.

01:43:34

It was presented as evidence for evolution for years and years and years, even in textbooks. And then later on, we found out, you know, if you take a close look at that bone, it's actually, you know, it's been filed down as a fake with Piltdown Man, or Nebraska Man.

01:43:46

We realized that's actually a pig's tooth. That's actually not even a human tooth at all.

01:43:51

It's just one single tooth that they got their so -called ape man from. As one person said, it was the tooth, the whole tooth, and nothing but the tooth.

01:43:58

And so, I mean, it's pretty impressive to get an ape man from one tooth.

01:44:05

But, so I think ape men have shown us the best example of that, because we can look at the present day bone fragments and recognize misinterpretations pretty easily over time.

01:44:14

Other places it's harder, but we do see similar things occurring in other disciplines as well. We have a listener.

01:44:23

Let's see here. We have Christopher from Amityville, Long Island, New York. That's my hometown where I was born and raised.

01:44:32

Not very good. I am known as the Amityville Horror. But he asks, are the fossils that have been reported to have both dinosaur and human tracks in the same fossil real, or are they manufactured?

01:44:54

I think manufactured might be a harsh word for some of those reports. It kind of gets a little muddy, no pun intended, depending on which particular case you're talking about.

01:45:07

With the Paluxy tracks over in Texas, a very popular example. People for a long time thought they were footprints, human footprints inside dinosaur footprints.

01:45:16

When the river dried up on the riverbed, we found those prints. And we thought, or many thought that's what it was.

01:45:23

Further investigation, it doesn't seem to be the case the way you have one dinosaur footprint comes out, another footprint comes right inside the middle of that, it squishes deeper into the mud, and the footprint actually goes underneath the dinosaur footprint.

01:45:36

As it turns out, it seems to be a different critter, not a person. There are different things like that. Other cases, you have a rock layer.

01:45:44

What's recognized about the rock layers around the world is they cover typically large portions of continents, if not multiple continents.

01:45:52

You might have a particular rock layer in one state in the U .S., you might find a particular fossil, and in that same rock layer in a different state, you'll find something that's kind of peculiar, a different fossil.

01:46:02

You want to think of what lined up with that particular thing, like turtles with dinosaurs, and sharks with dinosaurs, and marine critters with things like dinosaurs and other things as well.

01:46:13

Someone said maybe there's a human footprint in this area over here, and there was a dinosaur's wave here in this other state. Plausible.

01:46:19

It's hard to point to something that's very definitive, though. So we're very careful about that as far as whatever those things are presented.

01:46:26

And it's not needed, by the way. We'd expect during a global flood, things are buried in general according to where they live, and most likely people aren't hanging out with dinosaurs at the time of the flood.

01:46:34

So we don't expect them to be buried together. By the way, you've also won a free copy of the book we are discussing,

01:46:44

A Quick Answers to Tough Questions, and thanks to our friends at New Leaf Publishing Group.

01:46:52

Before we run out of time, and before we go to any of our listener questions remaining,

01:46:58

I'd like you to spend at least five minutes to summarize, interrupted, what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

01:47:09

Oh, sure. I appreciate that, Chris. I forget to always kind of mention this as we go out throughout the interview, but I would encourage the listeners, all the questions we've been talking about, and even so many more,

01:47:21

I deal with most of these in the book, and they're very quick, and they're very concise. I know I like to give long answers here, but they're very concise in the book, and I do that on purpose so you can have a quick reference to it.

01:47:32

It's very practical, it's very useful, and because I really want to equip believers to deal with these issues in a real -world situation, they can equip themselves and their families to defend the faith.

01:47:41

And so, I really encourage listeners, the book is really, really handy, and I praise God for the opportunity to be part of that project.

01:47:47

I would say what is most important, really, is, Chris, is the biblical authority.

01:47:54

Are we going to stand on God's Word? We just celebrated the Reformation, 500th year of the

01:47:59

Reformation, the Sola Scriptura, and all the other solas that go with it, but do we stand on God's Word?

01:48:07

And so many Christians in the past few decades, if not a couple centuries, as we've been engaging the world with questions on origins and so forth, and many

01:48:16

Christians have actually stepped away from biblical authority and tried to argue against secular ideas without standing on God's Word, or they've just backed up their argument altogether.

01:48:25

If we want to be effective in engaging the culture for Christ and presenting the Gospel, we'll do that by standing on the authority of God's Word from the very first verse.

01:48:35

And when we stand on that authority, it's so encouraging for Christians, and it's a challenge for the skeptics. We have answers.

01:48:41

You stand on God's Word, it's not that hard to explain how Noah got the animals off to the ark, and how God made two of each kind to come to Noah, and He made animals according to their kinds.

01:48:49

We get variations within the kinds, basically the family level. We understand the origin of humans, where sin and death came from.

01:48:55

We got answers to all those sorts of questions. Noah's Flood laid down a majority of rock layers and fossils. We can answer these questions, and real science confirms we're reading

01:49:02

God's Word again and again. And as we stand on that foundation, defend the faith, answer the questions that many people have in our day and age, and again, that then gives us a great opportunity to boldly proclaim the

01:49:13

Gospel, which is the ultimate thing our culture needs to do. That's what we're trying to get to.

01:49:20

I often tell people, we give answers. We do apologetics to give the answer,

01:49:26

Jesus Christ. And if you look in the Bible, when you get the biblical definition for apologetics from 1

01:49:32

Peter 3 .15, we get the word apologia, which means to give a reason, defense of why you believe what you believe.

01:49:37

We're told to give an answer. Why? We give an answer for the reason for the hope that is in us.

01:49:43

So we give answers, so we get to the reason for the hope that's in us, and our hope, of course, is Christ and the

01:49:49

Gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, really, apologetics and evangelism are two sides of the same coin.

01:49:55

We're giving answers to give the answer, Jesus Christ. And I would encourage Christians in our day and age to recognize that one of the main ways that God's Word is being attacked today is by attacking the history of the

01:50:07

Bible, particularly in the book of Genesis. And anyway, what he's done, it's been like a stealth attack, where he's attacked the history of the authority to undermine the

01:50:18

Gospel that's based in that authority. Because bottom line, Chris, and I think people recognize this, if you cannot believe the

01:50:25

Bible's clear history, why on earth would you trust what it says about salvation? If you can't trust the beginning of the book, why would you trust the middle or the end?

01:50:35

And Jesus put it like this, if you don't believe me when I talk about earthly things, how will you believe me when I talk about heavenly things?

01:50:41

And for so many people, it's this issue of origins today that is their stubborn, black soul. We answer their questions by standing on God's Word, then use that platform to boldly proclaim the

01:50:50

Gospel, which changes their heart, and then I'll change them from the inside out. And that's really what our ministry is all about.

01:50:57

Amen. Well, we have, let's see here,

01:51:03

John in Bangor, Maine wants to know, can you list the five best books other than your own that we should purchase on the subject?

01:51:14

I don't think he's disrespecting your book, I think he just, because we already know about your book. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, that's totally fair.

01:51:21

Actually, you know, this is going to sound really biased, and I suppose it's going to be a little bit, but I'm going to say the top five that I always typically put up, and there are many other good ones, not discounting them at all,

01:51:31

I'm going to say the book The Lie by Ken Ham, that's the foundational textbook of our ministry, it's the why behind what we do, it's why it's so important.

01:51:40

The book's called The Lie, but it also gives us the why, why we do this, why it's so important.

01:51:46

And then after that, I would say for many Christians, the best four books to get, of course, after a quick answer to two tough questions, are really honestly the four answer books.

01:51:54

We have answers books one through four, each book answers around 25 to 35 different questions, each chapter is a different question, so you get one chapter, one answer, you can read them out of order, it's about 15 pages per answer, so it's a good answer, it's pretty in -depth, but it's not going to overwhelm you.

01:52:11

And we cover so many different questions in those books, from dinosaurs, did they evolve into birds, what about their origin, how to answer dinosaurs in the

01:52:19

Bible, sister starlight, radio message dating, why there's 66 books, amen, on and on the list goes.

01:52:25

Over 120 questions answered in those books, and they're done in a really good format. And so I really,

01:52:30

I would say the book The Lie, and then the four answer books, are a phenomenal place for Christians to really start.

01:52:38

And if you do those, and my book's a great kind of summary of those answers, that's a great way to be equipped to defend the faith and proclaim the gospel.

01:52:46

And we have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know, what age group is your book intended for?

01:52:57

Yeah, great question. I would say the book, it's going to have age groups from around 10 to 110.

01:53:05

That's a broad age group. But I say that because just the answers are so short, that my book is very

01:53:11

ADD friendly. So whether you're a kid who struggles with that, or an adult, the short answers are very helpful to that.

01:53:18

I'd also say that the publishers, everybody did a phenomenal job with the layout. So I had, they asked me if I liked it, and I loved it, but they made the layout.

01:53:27

All kudos goes to them. And the layout's very engaging, good pictures, and not too much going on, but enough to keep you visually engaged, really well done.

01:53:35

And so it'll keep teens involved, it'll keep adults involved. And it's so quick, and you'll start reading it, and using about two or three hours, you'll be close to done, and like, before you even know it.

01:53:46

And so, you know, you read one quick chapter, and that kind of, once you make it, you want to read another one. It just kind of builds on that. So you'll zoom through it, but be equipped and use it as a reference tool.

01:53:54

I think multi -age groups will benefit from the book, and we're excited about that. Harrison from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania wants to know, did the

01:54:05

Young Earth creationist community ever get embarrassed by anything that you know of, that they were boldly defending, but were later disproven on?

01:54:16

It's kind of a reverse of the question we got earlier from... Yeah, no, that's a really good question, and it brings up a really good point.

01:54:24

We have a couple articles on our website about this, 10 Young Earth creationist arguments not to use anymore.

01:54:31

Basically, there are certain ideas that were presented as truth back in the day, that were presented as rock -hard evidence for evolution, or for creation, rather.

01:54:40

And oftentimes, that's born out of Christians wanting some sort of silver bullet, you know, to be the absolute proof to refute the evolutionists by recognizing, hey, it's a worldview issue.

01:54:51

It's not an evidence issue. And so, one example, there's something we could list.

01:54:56

One example is the ship in, I think, Japan, who found the carcass of what looked like, just to look at the skeletal framework, a plesiosaur, sort of.

01:55:06

It looked like it had a long neck, and the flippers, and so forth. And many creationists kind of show the picture, oh, they found the remnants of a plesiosaur still around, that proves dinosaurs aren't that old, and so forth.

01:55:16

And then, as part of the investigation, it would appear, and I'm not going to be too dogmatic on this, but it would appear that it was a basking shark skeleton that had just deteriorated.

01:55:26

And of course, the flesh had been eaten away by scavengers, and some of the bones had worn off, so what you really had there were just the remnants of a decomposed basking shark.

01:55:35

But just a superficial look at what you had on the crane, on the ship, looked kind of like a plesiosaur.

01:55:40

And so, but it clearly was not. And so, sometimes people jump to conclusions because, you know, even the creationists can have the same problem.

01:55:48

We want this to fit our worldview, but not careful. The so -called sightings of the

01:55:54

Ark, we're very careful about that. People claim all the time, I saw the Ark, I saw the Ark, I got pictures. Very careful about that.

01:56:01

Is it plausible that it could be found and still out there? Maybe, but a lot of things kind of go against that being a possibility.

01:56:07

So, a bunch of ideas like that we're very careful of. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the contact information that they need for you.

01:56:20

First of all, they can go to answersingenesis .org, answersingenesis .org.

01:56:28

And of course, the book that we have been discussing, Quick Answers to Tough Questions.

01:56:35

Those books have been provided by the publisher, who is New Leaf Publishing Group, and their website is nlpg .com.

01:56:44

That's N -L for New Leaf, P -G for Publishing Group, dot com. And do you have any other information that you care to give, especially about the

01:56:55

Ark encounter and other things like that, the museum? Oh, sure. Well, if they go to our main website, answersingenesis .org,

01:57:03

on the front page, there'll be a couple tabs they can click to go straight to the Ark Encounter website or the

01:57:09

Creation Museum website. And they can get to it from there pretty easily. So, answersingenesis .org

01:57:14

is a great starting point to launch from to find those other ones. And I really encourage them to check those things out. They are incredible.

01:57:19

And we praise God for what he's been doing through those attractions. Over a million people came to the Ark Encounter last year.

01:57:25

And around 500 ,000 came to the Creation Museum. And they're hearing the truth of God's Word. They're being challenged with the truth of the

01:57:31

Gospel. It's just amazing what God's doing. I would encourage people to check out, they can follow me on Facebook or engage me there.

01:57:37

I'd love to interact with people. If they've got any questions, they'll follow up from the interview or the book. They can go to at A -I -G,

01:57:43

Brian Osborne, to find me on Facebook. That's at A -I -G, Brian Osborne, on Facebook.

01:57:49

And you'll see me there, see my picture and so forth. And if they've got any questions, we'd love to engage there. Also, just take a second,

01:57:56

Chris, I appreciate just what you're doing. I appreciate your stand on the authority of God's Word and your willingness to engage on these issues.

01:58:03

And we're just thankful for believers who will stand on the authority of God's Word and proclaim that truth in a public way.

01:58:09

So, thankful for what you're doing. I really appreciate that very much, brother. And if you could just hold on when we go off the air so I can give a proper goodbye to you.

01:58:22

Absolutely. I want to thank everybody who listened to the program today, especially those who took the time to write questions.

01:58:34

And those of you who have not already won the book will receive that, God willing, within a couple of weeks from CBBBS .com.

01:58:42

Thanks to our friends at New Leaf Publishing Group. I want you to mark down in your calendar that tomorrow we've got

01:58:50

Dr. H .B. Charles, Jr. on the show. He is one of the speakers at the

01:58:55

G3 conference coming up in Atlanta, Georgia, January 18th through the 20th.

01:59:02

And we are going to be speaking on two subjects that are both related tomorrow. The first hour, we're going to be talking about his book on pastoring.

01:59:11

And the second hour, we're going to be talking about his book on preaching. That's Dr. H .B.

01:59:16

Charles, Jr. tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So make sure you get some questions ready for us and we look forward to hearing from you.

01:59:23

And now I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

01:59:31

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you with your questions for our guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.