The Most Delusional Gospel Coalition Debaters in History? - Part 5

Opening Frustration With the Debate Series

All right all right. Let's uh let's do this. You know i do these good faith debates and you know usually the first couple of episodes i'm feeling pretty good. I'm excited about it. I you know my commentary is a lot more energetic and i'm just feeling great.

Usually around the fourth or fifth episode which i think we're kind of at this point i'm just dreading it. This is the time where i just i have to power through i have to push through. And i do it for you guys.

You know what i mean. I'm not. I find. No i get no pleasure out of this anymore in the fourth or fifth episode. That's when things start to always turn. And this is no exception. I'm dreading this. I really am.

But i know a lot of you guys really like it. Some of you guys really don't like it. And i get it you know. And so you just have to deal with this for the time being. We've delayed long enough. Let's get into it.

Actually before i do let me just say i hope you had a good weekend. I hope you had a good lord's day. I definitely did. And all of that kind of thing. So god bless you. Yeah let's do this. If that's even something that's.

That's debatable. Maybe some folks out of some sense of ideological conviction would debate it but i think we know that i think if we're honest we know that's the truth and so and we have to be able to deal with that.

We can't. And that's a justice issue and a reconciliation issue. And so it's a justice issue because those prejudices lead to disparate outcomes and so those things need us to lean into. And i think in this sense it's important for us not to disparage.

It wouldn't be a good faith debate without saying lean into those that perhaps we disagree with. On some things i think that d 'angelo and those guys are trying to raise awareness or trying to create a sense of self-awareness about how people are acting in ways that they just don't recognize.

And here is some evidence. Is this anecdotal. It's not necessarily quantitative but anecdotal experiences is a part of the human experience and so we're more than measures. Uh there are motivations that we have that are not precise.

There are convictions that we feel we can't tell you why but we have them and so and so. These things are very racialized and i think that's a key part of the racial justice and racial reconciliation agenda is to deal with those kinds of prejudices which i think is a formational problem.

That's a longer conversation uh but i think you could always racialize anything.

I mean it's just this is this is the this is one of the big problems with all of this. I mean it's not the only problem it's not even the primary problem. But uh you could racialize anything you want.

And the the trick of it is that maybe there is a racial component to it maybe there isn't. But you you never can know. And and and you can never disprove it. It's just a completely unprovable thing. You know recently we've been talking about emmet till because uh you know steven wolf.

Uh i believe this. I don't know if this is a joke or not. I really don't. But i believe steven wolf was telling a joke when he said i'll bite. Who's emmet till. Um because emmet till is one of these figures that you're not supposed to to say anything unapproved about.

And the fact that you wouldn't know emmet till would be like someone admitting that they don't know paul the apostle. You know what i mean he's a new saint. And if you don't know him then you don't know enough.

You're not respectable uh enough to talk about you know anything really of any consequence. He's a he's one of these new saints. He's like he's like the george floyd of the civil rights era. And even me just saying that right now there are some people that can right now you know some of my audience even is feeling within them this this this burning kind of thing bubbling up and saying ad you've gone too far and a lot of you guys are suppressing that.

And that's good. You should suppress that. Because that's not uh it's not the heresy that uh you've been taught that it is to say that emmet till was the george floyd of the civil rights era. Yeah there's no doubt that.

There's biases and prejudice that people have towards people because there's no doubt about that. Here's what i think. Well here's why i think it's so important that this point is you know whether you're fully human or not because the way you can approach people totally changes when they have to acknowledge you're human even if they are biased.

For example you know i've had great.

Experiences. These people are so sick in the head and and so out to lunch and just so whacked out these guys are whacked that they think that there are people running around. Significant numbers of people running around right now that are really they're not quite sure if black people are human beings like and in fact they argue that they're not like.

These two men are sick. I gotta tell you like if you really think that there are lots of people in the united states running around and they're and they're not quite sure that maybe blacks are like you know maybe part human or not quite fully human.

If you believe that there are significant people out there that are thinking that you are actually insane. You are insane. These two men appear to be insane. Let's let them continue.

Whites who at first start and i i think for a lot of them it's it's it's a matter of uh uh they don't care enough about what's happening you know which i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying but it's a different challenge than say the civil war and jim crowism and that sort of thing.

So when you can when you can uh find a way to to to hit that humanity to go oh i should care. It changes whereas.

That was really not available. Yeah that's true. There's a lot of white people and he's learned this you know he's learned this talking to whites and he's been very scientific about it. Of course i'm sure uh he's learned through talking to whites that they don't really care about what's happening.

And the reason is because they're just not really sure they're fully human. And once you realize that they're fully human they're like oh oh those black guys those are actually human beings. Oh so of course i should care.

I mean i thought they were basically like dogs. Um and so you know who cares. I mean if a dog's you know they're struggling. I mean yeah you feel bad. But yeah what could you do. It's a dog. That's what.

That's what they were thinking. But then i you know the great whatever my name is who could barely put two sentences together yeah really showed these white people that these white devils that they're actually human beings.

And they're like oh and and it and a light bulb goes off. Yamago day. Of course do you see how psychotic these men are. These men are actually am i being too mean. I mean is this not insane. This is insane if you believe this that there are lots of white guys running around out there and the reason that they don't care about the plight of blacks which again allegedly the plight of blacks everything here is it got asterisks and it needs the word allegedly in front of it because you get too wrapped up in their narratives that you get you get talked into circles and you end up admitting things that aren't even true their alleged plight the alleged plight of black people these two psychopaths think that there are lots of white people lots and he's talked to many of them that they don't care about the alleged plight of blacks because they're not entirely sure that they're fully human.

And once they realize that once you lean into the humanity of blacks then you realize oh the amago day of course i should i should care about their plight the alleged plight my goodness these these are some of the most delusional uh woke church people that i've ever seen.

I mean i've seen some there's some delusional woke church people out there. These two might be among them the most. And maybe it's because they present themselves as reasonable like jim artisby presents himself like a lunatic and he looks like a clown.

And then he acts like a clown. Oh yeah you're a clown. You know what i mean but these two are like presentable at least on the surface. And then they talk and they're like oh yeah you're just as crazy.

I i get it i get it about the civil.

War we're talking about jim. I prefer jim artisby to be honest. Reservations and and this sort of stuff because they were not seen as fully human and so i think that that is a there's a you know when i think about a challenge today i think that's a critical difference.

Challenges today.

As opposed to what we've had for most of our history. That's helpful. Daryl i'm interested in the eschatological ramifications to pull on that third a little bit. I also appreciate that you were clear.

We're not taught we are clothed in christ's righteousness there is that but that doesn't get us off the hook either in the terms of the ethical and the way that we live our lives. That isn't a reason to not to just to throw up our hands and not do anything.

So i i'm a pastor and i talk with other pastors and this is probably true of a lot of the white or black we really need to know in general but i'm going to zero in on white pastors. Oh white they're white.

I get accused of saying too much and not saying enough. And i've heard you talk about the eschatological ramifications directly in reference to white people not saying enough and there are lots of injustices that there are more justices in the world than i would have time to speak out against.

What advice do you have for people. Let's just let's say pastors for right now white pastors even how do we know the line we're also we're also shepherding a specific group of people that god has given us.

They're going to all look very different. And so just some some some advice on how to steward that to know when to speak when not to speak when you're running too far ahead of your congregation you know just shepherding stuff.

Pastoral Wisdom on Speaking Up and Shepherding a Congregation

I think that's a great that is a great question. You know let me give you let me give you the ad robles approved advice on uh on this white guys white pastors listen up. Sit at my feet. I am puerto rican and uh you must listen and sit and learn at my feet.

I've got experience i've got a lived experience. I've got stories and i've got the skin most importantly the skin. And especially in the summertime it gets a little darker. So in the summertime if you're going to listen to ad robles you know maybe i could see maybe in the dead of winter you know february march you know things are still you're inside a lot.

Maybe you don't want to listen. Maybe my uh my european background comes out a little too much and and poisons my brain. But in the summertime you know this right here you know this is the good stuff.

Here's what you do. Here's what you do. Ready. How do you know you're saying too much. Saying not enough. I don't know if you are going with the the general narrative of the day stop. I'm not going to say you're saying too much.

You're just saying wrong. That you're saying false things. If you're the hands up don't shoot. If you if you find yourself uh using the slogans of the day black lives matter for example and all of that kind of thing that's a good indication that you're probably not thinking this through.

You're you're you're you're responding like an emotional uh you know computer program and you see a black guy hands up don't shoot. Gotta be true. Gotta be true. Look i know i only saw a five second clip.

But you know why why would they lie. If you're saying anything that uh you you could basically hear on msnbc with very little editing. Stop. I'm not gonna say you're saying too much. It's not about too much too little i i find that to be uh a very distracting way of putting it.

You're saying too much. You're saying too little. It's really not that you're saying too much. It's just that you're lying just like uh what's her face on msnbc. I don't even remember her name because i don't care.

Just like uh the cnn people again i don't really remember their names because i don't really care. You're just lying. That's the thing. It's not that you're saying too much. It's that. It's just that you're repeating lies that you heard on the television.

Stop doing that. That's my advice. Stop lying just because everybody else is lying. You know everyone else is out there lying and you you feel like well i mean how could i know i mean this is really happening.

This is an outrage. You know. Resist the urge to spread your concern. Resist the urge to be troubled publicly a professional troubled uh pastor. Resist the urge to dunk on the church. These are the things that that i think are very practical that you know maybe you're not gonna get everything right.

You might miss one too. You might miss a real uh opportunity to show how righteous you are in the eyes of the world. But you know i think your flock will forgive you. If you miss that one you know like you didn't jump on the hands up don't shoot thing.

And man maybe they really were racist. Maybe they really were and you missed it. And now like your your congregation you know might not know are you racist or not. Like people will know if you're racist or not based on your activities not so much what you say about the latest thing that you saw on msnbc.

And if people are gonna hold you to account on the latest thing that you saw on msnbc you said enough you said right just the right amount whatever that's on them. And quite frankly it's kind of on you as well because you're shepherding them to be essentially uh i don't know i mean useful idiots.

Is that what they call them these days whoever's just you know just a slave to the propaganda narratives that's you train them to be that way anyway anyway yeah i mean that's really it i mean like if you fell for the covid stuff like you you need to do some self-examination of your of the last five years or so you fell for the covid stuff.

Maybe you fell for this racist stuff too because it's of the same kind you basically did as you were told. I know you like to fantasize and you feel all warm inside thinking that you would be the one guy that didn't heil hitler.

You'd be in that you know that photo where everyone's doing the heil hitler. But then the one guy's there just like this you like to fantasize that you would be that guy. But you know the experience of the last few months has determined that's that's a lie.

You're not that guy. I'm that guy i could be that guy. You're not that guy though. Now you uh you uh enforce covid policies because the government says so you shut your church down because the government said so you injected yourself with experimental chemicals over and over and over and over again because the government said so look if you did that that's okay that's okay.

But then but then a lot of you started saying well this is a matter of christian. Uh what was it christian love. Is it like you in order to be a christian you had to get the shot and also encourage others to get the shot and then maybe post your vaccination card to encourage others to get the shot.

Like that was you you would have been one of the guys heiling hitler. And i think this woke stuff is all the same. So that's ad robles's advice. Remember you have to listen to me especially in august.

Well i guess it's july or i'm a little darker i went to the dominican this year. I'm a little darker so you have to listen to me. Let's see what this psychopath has to say. Question brother i think.

Discipleship, Christlikeness, and the Gospel Coalition Panel

There are a couple things here. I think that the fundamental issue is the issue of discipleship which is to help our people to understand what it looks like to follow jesus. What it looks like to be shaped into christ likeness.

One of the things that dallas willard says which i agree with is that to be a disciple of christ. To be a mature disciple of christ is to have an inner life that's like jesus's inner life. And there's there's a sense in which our motivations are motivations toward the other.

I think we as we disciple people we have to help them to take jesus's words seriously. In that christ words becomes the center of gravity of the kingdom agenda. And we need to be honest with ourselves as pastors that we've been mentored and shaped in ways to not value christ's words as core.

So for example several years ago tgc we had a panel discussion around if jesus preached the gospel and it was interesting. It was very good. I mean it was very helpful. Tim keller don carson john piper.

There was a panel um.

I'm clue. I'm actually speechless. Did this guy just say. There was a panel discussion on tgc about whether or not jesus preached the gospel. Did i mishear that. I'm gonna have to go back up. Guys. Guys there's just no way that this is real.

Right. I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna go back. 20 seconds. I believe. I think you know. Let's just hear this out.

In that christ words becomes the center of gravity of the kingdom agenda. And we need to be honest with ourselves as pastors that we've been mentored and shaped in ways to not value christ words as core.

So for example several years ago uh tgc we had a panel discussion around if jesus preached the gospel and it was interesting. It was very good. I mean it was very helpful. Tim keller don carson john piper very helpful dialogue and we greatly benefited from it.

However the rhetorical question the fact that it gives some buzz to us is a problem. The fact that we can ask the question did jesus teach the gospel helps us understand that there's something in our understanding of the gospel that perhaps is deficient.

It's a it's a miniature. It's a shrunken gospel. It's not that it's invalid it's just that it's miniature. And i don't think we've taken seriously the regenerative work of the spirit that the spirit of god has done more to just cover us in christ's righteousness.

He we that his righteousness is imputed to us. But we are meant to be changed in the way the new testament deals with the apologetics of the faith is largely to think about it ethically. And so whether it's john i'm first john three four and five.

He's very clear about what the implications of lovelessness are. Lovelessness is gracelessness. Gracelessness is godlessness and so we need to help our folks feel on the race conversation. What we think about this how we feel about this matters magnificently.

I'm not just talking about a loss of rewards and things like that. I'm saying to you recognizing what jesus did for you is not the same thing as being changed by the spirit of god. It's a new kind of human being.

And so we need to help folks. I think.

I understand now. Um if you guys know what panel he's talking about that is pretty interesting. I'd like to see the debate there. That i mean i think i understand where he's coming from though. Where it's like you know because jesus taught a lot about uh ethics and he said repent the kingdom of god is at hand.

That was the gospel message. Um and of course he taught about forgiveness as well but he taught a lot about ethics. Did jesus preach the gospel. I agree the fact that that's even a question that that has rhetorical you know importance i guess to the gospel coalition audience.

I think probably tells you all you need to know about the gospel coalition audience. Um what. What any of this nonsense has to do with racial disparities. Uh he's trying to make that sort of in evidence of fruit like like in other words like like uh the fruit of the spirit he wants to add like some kind of racial consciousness some kind of racial disparity consciousness because he's saying that that what you believe that about these racial disparities has a magnificent impact on uh i mean i think he's saying salvation.

Um that's pretty interesting now. You know that's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. Uh let's see we're gonna go in 25 minutes let's let's just power through. We got to get through at least a few more minutes of this.

Warnings, Fruit, and the Law of God

Because.

I don't want to do that. Many more episodes feel that we're not judging anyone. No warning in scripture is a condemnation they're simply an attempt to provide a framework to understand.

What it means to be in christ. But it's just amazing like yeah there's so many warnings in scripture there's a lot there's a lot of ethical teaching we don't want. Then why if this is so important psycho why do we get exactly zero teaching about the importance of racial disparities in uh in health care outcomes household income disparities.

In fact we do get teaching a little bit about income disparities and the fact that uh hey you agreed to it it's fair i can give you know whatever i want to whatever whoever i want. It's my stuff you know.

Like like why don't we get tea. Why don't we get the teachings of socialism in the scripture if it's so important racial.

Socialism and i think as pastors just make it stuff up as he goes along it's on every relational concern. I do not have the license to hate or to diminish people because i affirm certain doctrinal truths.

It doesn't work that way and i think paul makes it very clear. He says don't let anyone deceive you with empty words anyone who lives like this. This is why the wrath of god has come and so as pastors our calling is to present everyone a perfect in crisis these guys are.

Really good at at at and and i think i've i've talked about this before on the channel and i know i've talked about this in my book. These guys are really good at at putting their finger on on a lack of uh of ethical focus uh in christian teaching because there is some of that there's a lot of antinomianism out there there's a lot of of like this new covenant type theology stuff uh where where it's like you know all all the ethical teaching in the scripture.

Well it's really there's a few things that are important but mostly it's not anymore. We've got a new administration and it's completely outdone everything else and you know by the way we're saved by grace and so you know what do you think you're saved by your works.

Why would you focus on that stuff. Yeah there is actually a problem there with with the way that a lot of people present the faith. That's true. But number one we do have to maintain a law gospel distinction number one number two that has nothing to do with all of this race nonsense but they want to fill it in.

But if you've noticed they very rarely give you specifics on how the race nonsense fills it in. He'll say things like well you can't hate your neighbor but what he doesn't do is he doesn't give you the the actual actions there and and i think if he was honest i think this is why he doesn't do it.

Because this would sound bad but like if you're not actively looking to alleviate the wealth disparity between white families and black families then you hate black families and all of a sudden you get to this situation where all this socialist stuff becomes an imperative for christian life and it becomes imperative for salvation is what it becomes imperative for.

And if you're not actively doing the the socialism that we say you need to do and the reparations and all this stuff all the work of anti-racism then you're probably not saved and definitely have empty words or you're a false teacher.

They rarely they rarely fill in the gaps but they do identify a real problem. Then they mention the race stuff and then you're supposed to fill in those gaps yourself. They don't. They rarely do it themselves because i think that would expose them too much.

But that's the scam that they're running. They actually do put their finger on a problem. Actually i do agree with this guy that the fact that gospel coalition would have a debate or a conversation did jesus preach the gospel.

He's putting his finger on a problem with evangelical teaching that is a real problem that does exist not in every church but in many churches. And then he's talking about the race stuff to pull your emotional heartstrings and you're supposed to make that humongous jump that if you don't care about or if you don't it's not that you don't care is that you actively work to reverse wealth gaps between white families and black families.

If you're not actively doing that then you know what you're might be one of these guys that's like did jesus preach the gospel. Even so you don't understand the gospel. If you're not actively working to improve health care outcomes for black women or something like that like that's a big jump a big logical jump.

That's just 128 that's our call. It's sneaky too. It's very. So we need to make sure that our people who we are responsible for understand what it means to be in christ what it means to live in a christ-like way and how we should think of other human beings.

And if you are devaluing the situation circumstances of other people that is an eschatological problem. I can't make you any assurances. I can't give you any guarantees. Just because you understand a principle or truth does not mean it's a reality for you.

I think that was james's point in james chapter two and so. So i think as pastors brother it's important that we it's less about the race issue but it's inclusive of that. We've got to help our folks know that being in christ is a life and they love.

And if those two things are absent i don't care what you have definitionally you don't have christ. And the reason why that's the case is not because some rule is because it's the spirit's work and he's powerful enough he's charismatic enough to make that work efficacious.

Man it's real it's going to happen now. I think we need to help them to to understand that. So what i'm hearing is it's.

Possible to be accomplishing that and be quiet on social media. I think they're good reasons to be quiet on social media just as a principle. Right. Well i i know i i know all. Right we're gonna stop there.

That's uh that's enough. Yeah that's the trick though they they're very good at pointing out a real problem a serious problem. And then they start injecting the the social justice to woke stuff into that and saying if you're not doing the social justice and woke stuff then you're clearly um you don't.

You haven't been changed by the spirit. You know you're not. There's no life there there's no love there. Here's the easy way to short circuit all of this. Because he's right about the first part there is a problem.

And how do you know someone is bearing fruit. Right. How do you know someone is loving. How do you know someone uh has the holy spirit working on them. And that's because they do good works. Right. We know that you say you have faith.

Well show me your works. I'll show you my faith by my works. Faith without works is dead. And what works are those. I mean what. What are good works. How do you know what good works. Are they works that make people feel good.

Are they works that people agree are good. Are they works that get you on msnbc like what are the good works. Well we define those good works by the law of god. And if you look at what the social justice woke church people want this is what my book is all about.

If you look at their their demands their emphases what they talk about guys like this these two crazies each one of their things the things that they want overturns the law of god every single time. So they can't possibly be good works.

Reparations for slavery uh enacted in 2023 can't possibly be a good work because it actually overturns very clear laws from god. We're not talking about things that's hard to understand or hard to interpret.

We're talking about easy things to understand and interpret. The woke church overturns the law of god in all of their things that they claim are evidences of the spirit working in someone's life. That is pretty satanic.

That is pretty upside down when you think about it. And if i think about it too much i it's uh it's almost blackmailing a little bit because they're actually teaching as they're teaching the doctrines uh upside down doctrines.

You know the doctrines of demons the doctrines of of antichrist as if they're the doctrines of the holy spirit. You know the of jesus jesus did not teach the things that they say he he that if you don't do then you're not being like him.

And that's what my book is all about. So it's a very it's a very uncomfortable position to be in anyway let's uh let's continue uh this another time. I hope you found this one helpful. God bless.