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All right, we're gonna power through we're just gonna keep going. We're just gonna do it. We just have no other choice. We've got to do it. We've just got to finish this thing. Can I finish it today? Unlikely.
Unlikely, but we're gonna try we're gonna try so god bless you. Thank you for coming back to the channel. Let's let's listen to it. If you remember we just made a. He just cracked a joke about how you shouldn't use social media.
You know something like that. Who knows? I wasn't really paying too much attention.
But let's continue Jim leader who's fairly quiet on social media about these things and he gets attacked for it. But you look at his private life and he's very much investing his time and energies in Individuals in his context both in the church and outside of a marriage.
Amen, and he's probably accomplishing more than the loudest of us on social media. Hey, man, brother.
All right, we've talked about question is is he white or black. That's the real question. Because if he's white then I'm sorry, but he has a savior complex if he's black. Then I have to say That is an example to follow white people.
About formation and discipleship. I think we Happens at the relational level. I'd love to hear each of you talk about Practical things that we can be moving toward I.
Gotta be honest like I wonder because you know, lots of people will you know? Female adjacent guys, you know, let the reader understand. Female adjacent guys will say things like oh, this is so helpful.
This is so helpful. This is encouraging. But that's something they have to say like they know they they've been trained over years that they have to say that when gospel Coalition puts out some in the garbage.
They've got to say it's helpful. Oh, it's so encouraging helpful, brother. I wonder what percentage of people actually find this helpful. That'd be interesting to know like this is that did you actually like really learn something here something that hasn't been said.
Ten million times in the last, you know five days. And it's nonsense anyway, and it's been repeated over and over and over and every single time. We put another one of these stupid videos out about Rachel reconciliation.
It's the same nonsense over and over and over and it was nonsense the first time and it's nonsense the ten millionth time. Over and over and every single time you're supposed to say it. This was so helpful, brother.
I wonder what percentage of people actually find it helpful probably very small. I mean not that many people have seen this video. This video has been viewed. Three thousand three and a half thousand times thirty five three and a half thousand thirty five hundred times.
So it's not like that. People are like dying to watch this kind of garbage, but I wonder like out of the 3 ,500 people there's probably a significant number of hate watches and then of the people who didn't hate watch it how many.
Really did find it helpful not just saying it but actually did find it helpful church to be seeing this happen.
More increasingly more in our own context, I think you mentioned formation first.
So I'll start with you and then I want to hear your so I think that the key thing about formation is That we have formation is only really meaningfully achieved in a formational environment. And that's meant to be the church.
And so I think what that means for us in this issue. I think it means multi-ethnic multicultural churches as a Goal that we should pursue that in a way that folks Wiring about how they perceive people of different ethnicities and cultures can be reworked.
I think the gospel a gospel community is intended to reshape how we perceive each other. Paul says that we no longer view anyone from a worldly point of view and so that community reshapes indeed redefines my Biases and so I think that's first we've got to go after that.
I think within that we have to educate people on the reality of these racial disparities and what some people in our churches are Dealing with just to get to raise their antenna that this is not just a political issue or a social issue.
It's an issue for my brother. It's an issue for my sister and I begin to experience their encounter with these things. I think that makes me more sensitive now become an advocate both for them and also for other folks.
We have that same experience.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna come to you. But so I want to ask a question about Practically developing that and say my own context. I'm a I'm a white man pastoring a church largely white church.
You and I really need that explanation. Mr. Whoever you are. In my context, I'm a white man. Did we really need you to explain that? I mean, I don't know I know I'm nitpicking here, but this stuff is just it's always the same.
It's always the same. Oh, we got to contextualize it my white church white pastors got to do this and and all this kind of stuff. It's the same. I'm just so bored of it I this is why I don't do these kind of videos about woke church stuff as much as I used to because I I'm kind Of bored of it.
I think some of you guys are bored of it too to be perfectly honest. You know, it's just like it's the same and it never advances. It's always the same. It's always the same nonsense being pushed again and again and again.
Oh, that's so helpful, brother. And it's not helpful at all. Everyone's just lying all the time about how helpful this stuff is. I'm a white man. I don't know if you knew that I'm a white man and my church is mostly white.
What about my context a dear friend just a minute ago? I've got a black friend Who is pastoring a truly multi-ethnic PCA Church in Orlando?
And that's the best kind of church the multi-ethnic Church. As a white man though, I feel.
It's challenging to move that ball forward and and you and I've talked about this. We're trying. What are some? What are some things you would urge your white pastor brothers and church leaders sisters to.
What? What are some places you want to nudge us? We want to hear so yeah.
We definitely don't want to hear we don't care. Yeah, the thing is like this. This is the kind of thing. It's like, you know, if you're a white pastor or a black pastor or whatever, just don't just don't exercise.
Partiality don't show partiality, you know, don't. You know that kind of stuff, you know. Don't don't make a white section for the church where it's whites only and a black section of the church where it's blacks only.
Don't have segregated, you know. Community groups or things like that. Unless people want to because this is the thing like like, you know. If white people want to hang out with other white people and that's just how it all shakes out.
There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just that when they start making rules, right? Like well, you know, no whites here or no blacks here. You don't really see that on the white side as much.
I mean, there's not gonna be very many white community groups at your church that say no blacks allowed. But you will see that kind of thing on the black side because they think that just the presence of white people is.
Somehow offensive or oppressive or something like that? And if you don't believe me look at my my content about a gospel coalition event. Where they literally said no whites allowed at this event. This is for the sisters.
And so just don't do that kind of stuff and you're fine and if your church is mostly white. There's nothing wrong with that. You know what I mean? That's just how it shakes out if your neighborhood is mostly white.
There's nothing wrong with that. That's just how it tends to work out. You know whites hang out with whites and blacks hang out with blacks. Nothing wrong with that. It's just when you make these partial, you know, you you you treat people with partiality you make rules things like that.
That's where we run into problems, obviously. But but no white church is doing that these days at least not the kind of white churches that he's talking about I'm sure there are some white churches out there that are wax whack-a-doodle, but whatever, you know, that's fine.
That's fine. Do things I would recommend to them.
He's right. I can maybe there's three three. Let me start with the third one that just came to mind. Okay, great. Yeah, I don't think it means leading your church to become multicultural. Thank you. And I think you that's that's good advice.
Don't worry about this multicultural church thing. That's not ideal. It's not it's not something the Bible tells you to do and it's definitely not ideal either. I Think people think that it's ideal. It's not.
It's it's it's difficult to have a church where people have completely different cultural conceptions of time. You know what? I mean? This is this is something that a lot of people have noticed, you know.
This is I remember I once I was in Ethiopia and you know, I'm an American. So, you know, I've got a certain concept of time, you know, you say you're gonna be there at noon. We're gonna be there at noon.
You know what? I mean? I'm I'm gonna show up a little early. I mean that that's kind of how I was raised I was raised that if you're early you're on time if you're on time, you're late. You know what?
I mean? I and I get that other people weren't so I don't hold other people to that. But but at the very least if you say you're gonna be here at noon be here at noon. But I remember we had a guide and he would say things like Tina and what he meant by that is this is not America and there you know, you say you'd be there at 12.
Maybe you're all in around one. It's just a kind of a vague sort of squishy concept of time in my opinion. That's how they do it over there. It's not that it's wrong or bad or I mean I think it's inferior of course because I Think it makes a lot of sense to say what you mean and mean what you say kind of thing and I think it helps.
With business it helps with things appointments things like that, but that's just not how they do it. And so if imagine bringing an Ethiopian group and a white group together and they say great the potlucks at noon.
What times the potluck actually nobody knows. Now you can work through that stuff. Of course, you can work through that that but it's not ideal necessarily like people put this Multicultural thing as if it's just this perfection this ideal this this thing.
We all need to strive for no. We actually really don't we really don't and that breaks people's brains to hear that. I know there are some people in this audience that will hear that and think that sounds pretty racist.
But it's just a fact and this is the thing. It's like If Ethiopians want to gather together in their own Ethiopian Church and have whatever concept of time they want to have. There's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with that and if a white person wants to go to that church, you know. And they have to maybe maybe adjust their expectations a little bit when we say the potlucks at noon, you know I'm gonna you know I'm not gonna show up at noon and then get mad because nobody else is there.
You know what? I mean? Like that's just not how it works. I don't know how American Ethiopians do it, but I would imagine it's either some kind of difference. It's this is ridiculous. It's like, you know, you don't expect me like listen the whole idea of the multicultural ideal Church.
There's nothing wrong with having other cultures in your church, right? But this idea of it that the church itself has to be multicultural and it's this ideal thing. We all must strive for it's the Revelation 7 ideal.
Just not true. It's just not true and it's not ideal.
The reason why I think it's not that if it's a larger white church is that you're probably going to end up creating an Environment that's going to feel alien alien and perhaps hostile to people of color would come in there.
So I think it's important not to try to diversify white spaces as a strategy for right.
He's got the right advice but the reasoning is all jacked up. It's like it's like Don't don't create the multi-ethnic Church. Not because it's okay for you to have a white church it's definitely not but we just don't want blacks to feel uncomfortable and you're creating a situation where blacks are gonna feel uncomfortable when they Say the potlucks at noon and really it's whatever time you want to show up.
I don't know just don't know.
For pursuing multi-ethnicity multicultural churches. I think there are two things though that we can do. One is that we can like our friend we can plant we can establish the DNA going into a church. We can plant multicultural multi-ethnic churches churches that are Reconciled and also just all right.
So.
He doesn't actually have the right advice. What he was saying was don't transform your church if it's a white church to a multi-ethnical church. Multiethnic culture, but definitely plant multi-ethnical churches because that's the pinnacle.
That's the Revelation 7 idea. Is it 7 or 9. And I've always forget that that's the ideal church is not a true Ideal just Reconciled church unless it's multi-ethnic.
That's I should have known. He didn't have good advice. I should have known. So I think we can plant those churches. Here's another thing that we can do that. We don't talk to me. Plant white churches.
Can I just plant a white church?
What if I just want to plant a white church, you know where you know, they listen to whatever white music they want and they have white potlucks with casseroles and. You know and they they do white things like I don't know play bridge or something.
What do white people do? I don't know. They've got emergency mayonnaise, you know things around everywhere just in case you have food. That's too spicy. You know, you break it. You pull out the mayonnaise.
Everything's fine. That's what I imagine a white church be like. No, it's just a regular church, it's just an American church. This is the thing most American churches are white churches and that's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with that. You can plant a white church if you want to. You want to plant a mold. Is the thing with the multi-ethnic church? Of course is just it's like a black or Latino church like like like that's what it really is.
Like a multi-ethnic church is just any church. That's not white. So what he's saying is if you're a white church, don't plant don't don't change your church to multi-ethnic. Just plant a black church or plant a Latino church like and he says it's multi-ethnic to make it sound good.
But really it's you bending to the will of the cultural preferences of black people is really what it means. It's not about you know, we have an amalgamation melting pot, which again, that's not even ideal anyway.
But he's not even talking about a melting pot. He's talking about white people bending to the will of whatever Latinos want to do or whatever blacks want to do. That's what a multi-ethnic church is in reality.
So we tell you the potlucks at noon you better not show up at noon. I haven't seen I've even seen tweets like that where somebody says that you're Oppressive or rude or something or racist if your black friend invites you to your party to a party and you show up on time.
That's actually oppressive. I've seen Literal, I don't even remember who it was. It could have been Kyle Howard I could be wrong about that. So I can't say definitively it was him. But another it just as psychotic as this guy.
If you show up your black friend invites you to a party and you show up at the time he says the party is. You're a racist. That's problematic. That's concerning. That's troubling people are sick, man.
They're sick. I think that we can diversify.
Largely black and Latino churches. That's our churches story. Our church was planted as an african-american church. That was its definition. We are today multicultural church about 40 black about 35 white and about 25 Latino brown Latino.
And so I think that the churches of color are safe.
Spaces for everyone. He just made explicit what I just said white churches Cannot be they cannot be multicultural. Because it won't be a safe space for blacks and Latinos. But black churches and Latino churches They can truly be multicultural because that's a safe space and what that means is you are bending to our will and Therefore we feel safe and that's a truly multi-ethnic church when you white people bend to our will where we feel perfectly at home.
But you white people can't have a multicultural church because we would have to be bending to your will. And that can't be truly ethnic. Do you see how evil this whole perspective is? It is pure Unadulterated the exact sin of partiality that these people claim to be warring against they commit Every single day.
This is what my book is about. They're the ultimate projection the ultimate, you know. Doing the thing that they accuse you of the ultimate crying out in pain as they strike you. These people are evil to the core.
Well, at least their teaching is evil to the core. I don't know this man, so I can't say he's evil to the core, but his teaching is pure Unadulterated evil. This is the very thing that Paul would have lost his mind over.
This is the very kind of thing that he speaks against in the scriptures. It's the very thing that gets that that's that's that he reserves his harshest words for. It's evil stuff guys. You see I just said I didn't know he was gonna say that I don't watch these things before I before I comment on them, but you see my commentary.
I've just assessed the situation I know what's going on. I didn't expect him to be explicit about it. He was explicit about it. You bend to our will and that's how we achieve Multiculturalism, it's not about you who cares what your preferences are.
Look the potlucks at 12 tough luck. Good luck figuring out when the potluck is and that's just a stupid example I mean, it's just it's a real example, but it's a stupid example. There's things like that throughout the life of the church and White people will have to bend to our will if we're gonna truly achieve the revelation Perfection of multicultural churches.
It's all a scam. It's all a bamboozle. It's all the flim flam. It's all fugazi.
Existentially the ones that if a white brother or sister comes in they're not going to get hurt there. That may it could happen because these human beings but but largely it's a come. Yeah, but who cares?
I mean seriously who cares if white people get her. I mean Tough luck. I mean you gotta you gotta even making an omelet. You got to crack a few eggs, right. White eggs. White eggs don't be cracking those brown eggs around here.
Yes, sir. We don't be cracking no brown eggs around here. Place for you see how evil it is and he says it with a smile. He says it with a smug conviction. He says it you would think he has the moral high ground here.
He's totally confident in his partiality. He's totally confident in his evil teachings. He's not embarrassed about him. He can't blush. He thinks this is good. He's calling this holy and righteous. This is twisted.
This is pretty twisted, you know, honestly in the last episode I said these are the most dilute delusional delusional people out there. There are debaters out there, but. But man like I did not expect it would be this flippant about this evil.
And it's also less likely to have these culture wars inside the church around issues like Racial justice and so I think those two things I think planting those churches, I think Diversifying churches of color and I think in white churches kind of educating your people on the issues can be done without Change the church which will lead to conflict tension and resistance.
That's a good word. Thank you.
All right formation and disciples. He said he said it all I mean he said, you know again. It's about whites bending to the will of blacks and browns the preferences of blacks and browns. It's not about any Reconciliation.
It's about doing the will of people who want your stuff. That's what the is if they want your resources. They want everything. They want you to lay aside everything that the tree that you've done traditionally and embrace what and if you don't.
You might not even have the Holy Spirit. Simple as that. Simple as that.
To move both Reconciliation and justice forward in the context of our local church. What what advice do you have?
Yeah, so as I think about that question, I mean, I think two things come to mind and you know, I'm not theologian I don't even play one on TV. But you know one thing I think that we get these rise Christians that they're not gonna run the rest of world is the nature of what humans are.
You know because of our idea of depravity, we know the humans are of great worth and depraved whereas in a humanist philosophy Only humans are great worth which means that we know in interacting with others.
Well first human depravity that dr. Human property always starts with me. It always starts with me and then I can understand others. So it doesn't. Hey y 'all are deprived. You need to know if I really understand that doctrine means I need to learn from everyone else.
And you know beyond race this has such implications as to what we should be as Christians. I mean, I think that's something that I would like to just teach more. But the nature of what humans are depraved and yet still image bearers of God, you know.
What does that mean? And how confident should we be that we have all the answers given given this and I thought about as a sociologist as confirmation bias. And such but really it's it's truth from on high good science and good theology go together.
So it's so it's that on a more practical level. A little more practical level, you know, I think that we need to try to live a lifestyle. That is more Collaborative in our in our conversations and inclusive that means first off.
It means yeah having diverse friendships if you don't in this day and age of the Internet, what's wrong with you? Honestly.
So Basically white people you better have that black for that black friend have them in your back pocket because if you don't have a black friend What's wrong with you in today's day and age in social media?
You should have a you should have one for every color of the rainbow. You should have a black friend. Of course, you should have a Latino friend, of course and a Mexican friend. You got to separate those two Latinos and Mexicans.
You need to have a Chinese friend and a Korean friend and a Japanese friend and you better have an Indian friend. You got to have every what's wrong with you? If you don't you you might be one of those Nazis that I've heard all this about.
You got to have you got to have a diverse friendship and.
Willing to have the conversation. My best friend in high in non high school in college was a white guy. We talked about God. We talked about girls. We talked about politics with everything but race. Another friend who was a Hispanic who wasn't I wasn't as close but we talked about racial issues.
That's on me that I was unwilling to have the conversation. He did not ever push it away. Okay, I don't blame him. That was me. I was unwilling to have the conversation. We'd be willing to have the conversation when it comes up in there.
Guys when you're at listen, I I know I know that you're working hard out there. You know and and you'd like nothing more than to just you know. Hit up the local bar or maybe maybe a cigar shop if that's your thing.
Or maybe you don't like either of those kinds of vices and you know. You just want to hang out and you know, I don't know shoot pool or something. I know you want to chit-chat about. You know some lighter stuff.
You guys are working hard. You got a lot of stress and things like that. You want to talk about the game, you know last night or something? Fishing, you know things like that. But no, no what you got to do with your off time with your friends your best friends.
Is talk about racial disparities. That's that's the thing you need to talk about like when I get together with my friends. Yeah, I just I just hung out with a friend the other day. We went to the cigar lounge, you know I got a nice Dominican cigar.
It was wonderful. It was wonderful. I'm really into Dominican stuff now. That's the thing. Anyway, we you know, what we did was we talked about racial disparities, you know. And I really let him have it cuz he's a white guy and he's got you know, you know, he's just a white guy.
I'm just gonna say he's white, you know, you know what I'm talking about, right? He's white and. We just talked about racial disparities and and you know. Honestly, like if you're not doing that what in this day and age with all the racial tensions out there.
What is wrong with you? Hey, did you see the game last night? Oh, yeah, you know what I didn't see the game. But but I was really thinking about the the the the the wealth income gap. Yeah, the wealth income gap and how white people are devil.
What do you think?
Man, it's not when you meet someone say hey listen about race, but when it comes up in appropriate manner. We have to have the conversation so we can understand each other. No conversation to brow people to beat people down or anything like that.
So look I'm not trying to beat you down.
I'm just trying to say that white people are the devil and that so you can understand me more. That's why I don't have a lot of stuff like look I would love to have a bass boat too, but I can't have one because white people have be holding me down.
They hold me down man, and I'm not trying to browbeat you. I'm not saying you do anything I'm just I want you to understand me. Like I I would be I Probably have as much money as Donald Trump right now if it wasn't for the white man holding me down.
That's the thing the white man be holding me down.
Not about not trying to browbeat you though Dan would another these principles of collaboration so that we could. The rapport I understand where they're coming from an agreement have a good point and these sort of things.
We need to engage in those conversations and. Over time we need to build Communities. We need to build Organizations that promote this sort of idea. I think that this idea goes against the what the world is saying.
Oh, man. Oh, wow. He's gonna kill me.
He thinks That the idea that we should collaborate and we should all be Reconciled and the races should get along and we should be against racism. And we should be you know, forget about the disparity or not worried about the disparities.
That's actually against what the world is saying. Yeah, I know. Every single politician that is against Christ and for abortion and for the most evil Doctrines out there the LGBT stuff all the depravity.
They're also saying this but That's somehow not the world don't know why but the world is against it that the world is definitely against the idea of anti-racism and L and diversity equity and inclusion.
It's really the the solid conservative Christian rights that is pushing this. It's it's it's really them. Yeah, that's that's the thing. You know, it's Christians that are doing it's not the pagans. The pagans are against this.
These guys really are. I'm not this is not even hyperbole there have been some Horrible debaters on these good faith debates. We've done a we've done a bunch of them. These are these two are the most delusional that I've ever seen.
These might be the most delusional gospel coalition people that I've ever seen and that my friends is quite an achievement. That is a trophy. The most delusional gospel coalition presentation I have ever witnessed.
I.
Think so, I think that's that's fine because I think the solution to racism resides in the church. We just have not done it. We instead of gone along with the world is done. The world says be colorblind.
We'll be colorblind. The world says do this. We'll do this. We need to set the agenda, which is Working together with rexciliation and as we do that.
Finding ways to achieve justice. I was just in the YMCA earlier, you know. I was lifting, you know pumping some iron throwing plates around, you know that kind of thing and they actually had a banner right behind the counter.
That said something very similar. Oh, we got to just all collaborate. We all gotta get we're stronger together. We're stronger when when you're not eating. Collaborating. We're stronger together. Just exactly like the world.
The same just like this guy's saying but no. No, the world's not saying that. The world is not saying that. That is only in the church. The church has the answer and it's just what the YMCA saying which is also I.
Guess technically it started as a Christian organization, but it's definitely not now. I'll tell you that pride flags everywhere and.
You know one of the things that I just feel you know The only difference between Daryl and me other than some minor things is he approached this as no. We have to have justice we go along. I'm saying no we have to have Relationship to go along and we kind of both agree.
We just came up from different angles.
The the Google the Google closed captions. It's usually spot-on dead accurate. It can't figure out what this guy's saying. This guy just mumbles and he talks nonsense. What was that? This this guy this guy's got why would they bring this guy on to this when he can't.
We can't even speak. I just don't understand. I don't understand but we're gonna let end it there. We've got seven minutes left. I guess we got to do another episode. God bless you. I hope you found this video helpful.
God bless. Don't forget to tune in next week on Thursday for a D on the fight laugh feast.
