Parenting with a Purpose (Part 2) | Outside Eden

The Gospel as the Purpose of Parenting

Welcome to Outside Eden, two centers discovering grace together in our marriages and parenting. I'm your host, John Moffitt, pastor of Grace Reform Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee, and with me is my beautiful wife of 20 years, Judith, and we have four children from the ages of 6 to 18.

And this is part two of our series. In the first part of Parenting with a Purpose, we are explaining what is the purpose behind our parenting? What are we trying to accomplish? We talked about that in the previous episode.

Today, we're going to talk about the application of that, starting from ages 0 to 1, to 2, from 3s and 4s, from 5 to 10, all the way up to 18, and how it applies in each area of those things, like how do you talk to your kids about discipline, sexuality, the book, the gospel, when to apologize.

So we hope you enjoy. We're going to jump right into the conversation. It was one long conversation that we cut into two episodes. So we hope you enjoy. Well, we know that the greatest liberation that can come to a center is the gospel.

So we want to raise our children to trust and believe that Christ is sufficient for everything in their life, that there's nothing more sufficient than him and there's nothing more glorious and wonderful than his purpose, which is to glorify him and to spread the light of the kingdom, right?

So that becomes the focus. Everything we do spreads out from that. So here's where things get a little complicated. Let's start, like, we're going to work, just so that you're listening, we're going to cover every stage from 0 to 18.

Parenting Infants with Mindset, Grace, and Realistic Expectations

So it's, you're talking about newborn to one year old, and how does this person play into this, Judith? Like, how do you take this purpose and be like, well, I've got this six months old and I can't have a coherent conversation with them.

So how does this play in?

Well, I think it's a lot about mindset, you know, by what we're doing, we can tell already what our mindset is, is towards the family and where we're putting that child in that order. Yeah.

From your experience and things I know you've read, I think it's fair to say that a six month old can observe the attitude and the reactions of another human being.

And often tone and tone, maybe not words, but tone. That's right. Emotion.

And listen, one of the things that we have to remember when you're this at this stage is that you're a sinner taking care of a sinner, right? And sometimes the six months old and the one year, the six month, the one year old isn't sleeping because they have something against you.

You know, it's easy to think like there's, you know, they have it out for me and we just, their sinful mind can start turning into I'm a bad parent because this is happening and or the comparison game.

I mean, this is probably Judith where when we were first parenting, you know, people were, we're watching people, they're watching us and you start comparing them at this early age of like, well, they do this at bedtime and they do that at bedtime and and there's so many different preferences and ideas out there.

And I think we have to be careful not to get into those and a lot of it's cultural and a lot of it's going to be how your family was raised. But the point of it is we are trying to remind ourselves that this is a stage where there isn't a lot of going to be a lot of interaction, but how we treat them and how we care for them is important.

And I'll say this, it is you need to remind yourself that your child's sleep patterns are not the gospel. In other words, they're not your hope. And if you need, your child needs to get out of their sleep patterns because there might be an event or an opportunity to spend a guy, I'm just I just, I don't, this is, I don't know, maybe this is me and we didn't even talk about this, but but sometimes it's like people will have, their whole life kind of gets pushed on pause for two years because there's no way they're going to ever break a sleep cycle.

And I just think it's the times we need to step back and ask ourselves what is healthy for everyone that's involved and necessarily not always having to say, well, if this happens, then there's a ramification down the road.

Right. And here's the thing too. We need to show each other grace. Our, our society has gotten so used to telling everybody how things should be done and there's one way and I just think you know, we got to show each other grace and know that that their motivations are, you know, pure for what, why they're doing what they're doing or why they're allowing that.

But yeah, I think again, it just all goes back to mindset. It's going to look different for everybody, but it goes back to mindset. And if you're really, you know, question, why, why am I doing this? Why are we missing every single you know, event so that this baby can be in bed on time?

Just, just questioning. Is this temporary? Is this, what is this going to look like? You know, four years from now. You know, just, just mindset and motivation I think is important to ask yourself about.

Yeah. And I think that's important. I can't tell you how many young parents I've said, just remind you that this is only for a short amount of time. As they get older, it doesn't get easier. The complications just shift, but this, this area where it can be a little strapping does get over.

As I've learned that as parenting, as the kids get older, I keep thinking it's going to get easier. It gets easier in like getting it in and out of the car. But life just gets more complicated, which makes it harder.

Not to scare you.

In Christ, we can do this. So. And it's not going to make or break. No.

No. And we're going to stay away from, there's a lot of, a lot of parenting methods out there from this stage and we're just not here for that. All right. So ages two to four, Judith, this is where we think come, think things come in with like consistency, discipline.

You know, our words matter, like no means no. So here's where things can get complicated. You were raised different than me. Your parents instructed you, you know, in a certain way that had similarities, but didn't in mine.

You had rules that I didn't have. And so we actually didn't really talk about them. I don't think we did. I can't remember. And then so you just kind of parented the way you wanted to parent and I didn't.

And all of a sudden you're kind of looking at me like, why are you doing that? Even till like recently, you're like, why do you do that? And I'm like, I don't know. That's why I've always done. But I don't think you should do that.

And then we had to have a conversation about it. And I was like, you're right. We probably shouldn't do that. So I'll throw this to you. Like what happens? Let me put it this to you. How important do you think it is that two parents agree on when a child disobeys,.

What to do? I think it's extremely important because the child needs to have clarity. They can't be confused. It'll just create frustration. And honestly, the child will lose respect.

So.

I think it's extremely important. Yeah.

I'm with you and I deal with a lot of parents in our church where they don't agree. They agree verbally to each other's face, but then when they're separately, they kind of do their own thing. And I have to say this, that if the parents are, and if you're a single parent, you know, this is, we love, we want to love on you and care for you.

And we understand this is even more complicated and hopefully there's a good church that can support you in this, but at home, you can't have the yes and the no person. Right. This is so bad. Like mom always says yes.

And dad always says no. They have to be unified because it will affect your marriage.

Where you always feel like I'm the bad guy. You're the good guy. The child will catch on real fast. Yeah. And there's no consistency. Right. So what do you do?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that if you can't come to an agreement, well, first of all, I think you should sit down and talk about, and we're going to give you some points on that. You need to talk it through and what you're going to need to agree on.

You know, what is extreme? What is not enough? Um, you know, what, what is the point and the goal? If you can't come into agreement, then my, this is what the church is for. I think you should sit down with a wise couple or your pastor and say, Hey, look, we can't say we can't come to an agreement on this.

Can you help us figure out how to like navigate this? Because you can't just say, well, I guess we're not going to agree. Right. It will cause some massive issues in the home and frustration in your marriage.

So, um, so I definitely agree. And I think consistency is so important here. I definitely say choose your battles.

Right. And I remember, I remember thinking, you know, when, when Karis was a toddler thinking, Oh, wow. I, and, and judge me, it's fine, but I'm going to pretend like I didn't see that because I don't, I mean, obviously not something unsafe or whatever, but cause I don't have the energy right now to have that battle.

Right. And so choosing your battle that way, um, or choosing your battle, like just allowing something. Um, yeah.

Yeah. And it does depend on what it is because if it's open defiance, like, Hey, don't open the door and go out the front door. And they do that. You can't just pretend like you didn't see that.

Right. Right.

That's not, but you know, if it's something's, you know, silly or whatever. Um, but the point of consistency is, is a child is going to base their emotions and they're going to base their, their structure of life on your consistency.

And without that consistency, it can create like one day you correct them for it. And the next day you don't.

Right. And those are the kinds of things I'm talking about. Like you start to rethink that. Is that as important as I am making it or is that something I can let go?

That's right. Yeah. That's really good.

Save it for the big things.

Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about your experience with childishness versus defiance.

Right. Um, well, and I think, especially when we're talking about this age, what two to four, two to five, you have to also understand like the physical and mental side of it, that these kids do not have the mental capacity to control their emotions.

They don't have, you know, I mean, sometimes adults barely do. So we, I just think giving them a little more grace and patience in that area. Now, again, if it's defiance, you know, it's slapping you across the face, like my experience, you obviously have to deal with that.

But, um, I think really trying to understand the child and, and ask yourself, where is this coming from? Like, why are they doing, do I need to feed them? Did, did because I took them out during their naptime and they didn't get a nap.

Is that why this is happening? Like just really walk through those things. And I'm not saying to ignore it, but just deal with it differently.

I can remember going back to the zero to one stage. We got home with Karis a few weeks old and she is like uncontrollably crying. And we're like, what is wrong with this child? And you pull the blanket off and a wasp goes flying out, you know?

And the point of it was, is that there's a, there was, it was circuit. She wasn't just being cranky. It was circumstantial. I can remember when we moved here, you and I got into this interesting, we never argue, you know, discussion.

And, uh, you know, I couldn't figure out why it was so important for you to always ask me why Jane, what her day was like at daycare. And I'm like, why does it matter? You know, you're like, did you ask this, this, this?

And I'm like, I'm not a detailed person. She's breathing. She's not crying. She's not bleeding. We're good to go. You know, uh, the teacher, she can kill anybody. Right. Right. I'm going to go. And then it's like you finally, one day you said, John, because when she gets home, sometimes she's cranky or she's hungry or she's tired or she's lethargic.

I need to know, did she take her nap? Did she eat all of her food? Did she go to the restroom? And I was like, Oh, okay. That makes sense now. And your point in that is you're trying to assess is my child just being selfish and sinful or is.

My child reacting to their body and they don't know how to tell me. And then how can I help them learn how to deal with those feelings and those things? So I'm not, again, you don't just ignore it, but you ask yourself questions that we as adults are capable of working through for them and then help them work through that.

Um, but defiance for sure has to be dealt with. And I would say in defiance, I would say, um, attitude is a big part of that. So even if they're obeying, but their attitude, um, isn't good, that has to be addressed.

This is the age you have to address.

It. And let me give you an example of that. You tell a child, Hey, don't do that. And they're just fine. And they obey, but they're angry. Then you have, this is where you have to go to that next stage and say, Hey, look, we need to talk about this.

Um, and what you want to talk about is that you're trying to motivate your children with the same thing that should motivate us. Like I don't obey God. You don't obey God because we're afraid of him. There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, right?

Um, he's a kind and gentle father who loves us and disciplines us with love and kindness. And so we love because he first loved us. So we tell our children, listen, I want you to understand why I said this.

And you're not gonna be able to explain this always to a two-year-old or four-year-old, but it is, they are going to respond to you and say, Hey, listen, I just want you to know that I can see that you're still angry.

Why are you angry? Like, why are you? Well, cause I want her to do this. Okay. Well, let's talk about maybe why I told you you couldn't do this. And then you're, you're helping your child process their anger.

If you never help your child understand their sin, that you're just going one, you're going to be angry at them and they're going to be angry at you. And you have two angry at each other and you're never going to make progress.

Discipline, Grace, and Consistency in the Toddler Years

Yeah. And I think that's partly what we referred to the very beginning of this was just like, um, you know, you have to teach them like they're not responding correctly. So even as a three-year-old four-year-old, I know some, I wish I would have done this with my previous three children.

It took me many years to learn it, but I avoided so many situations with Knox because I would see he was angry and frustrated and just really losing control with his emotions. Um, and I would just hold him.

I'd give him, I'd say, come here, bud. I don't even really know what's causing it. Come here, bud. And I would just put him on my lap and just hold him and give him the longest hug and say, I'm so sorry.

You're having a hard time. And then just that act that took one minute and, um, you know, me just being willing to not have him obey me right that second, uh, opened up an entire opportunity to talk about his heart.

And for him, it gave him a second even to gain control and think, yeah, I guess it isn't that bad. And then we can talk about his heart.

Tanner Iskra. Right. So again, you're taking the goal of parenting and you're letting it get done in the practical. And I'll just say this now, that means at times that you spent time doing stuff with Knox or all of our children and the dishes didn't get done and the laundry didn't get done, or you didn't get to go to the store or this event didn't get happen or whatever, whatever is that you can step back and you and I would have these conversations where you're like, well, I didn't get this and this and I'll go, well, tell me about your day.

Well, this happened. And I was like, oh, so you, uh, you loved and cared for our children. You taught them to, you taught them gospel and how to fear the Lord. And I think it's, it's important to remember that.

Yeah. Parenting, uh, it's going to take time. It's going to take time out of your day. So I, the other thing I want to talk about is when you're dealing with childishness and defiance, one of the areas that I think we established early on and it really helped in our parenting is that when the kids were little, no, no, no.

And we really had to grain that into them. And it wasn't that I was trying to, it wasn't an annoyance thing. It was a protective thing that when daddy says no, and at times I would have my kids like, you know, it's hard for them to process things at times.

So I would say no. And I could tell they aren't processing and I would stop them. And I'd say, Hey, listen, I don't think you heard me. So I'm going to give you one more shot. I'm not going to repeat myself again.

Do you understand why? Yes, daddy. Okay. Don't do that. We never did the counting thing. Um, at times I would raise my voice and this is what I was referencing before you're like, John using your, you're using fear to control the children.

And I was like, yeah, you're right. That's probably not wise. Whereas there are times, you know, we did use consequences when the children, I'd say, Hey, I said, no, you didn't obey. Now there's a consequence for that.

So, but, and that's the consistency part, because if you teach that when they're two and four, when they get to five and this next stage, we're going to talk about, um, then they're, you're not battling.

Do I really believe what my parent is saying? You know, like using threats over and over and over, but never using the consequence if you don't. And then I've, I've been in the presence of parents where they threaten their child with like a nuclear war and they're cut the kid knows it's never going to happen.

Apologizing, Grace, and the Hard Work of Parenting

Yeah. Let me just.

Take a moment, take a moment to talk to the moms out there. Um, this is hard guys. I, I 100 no, like we've talked about Karis was, was a struggle. Um, and I know you're exhausted. And by the end of the day, you're just so tired.

And you know, that if no means no, then you have to deal with that right now. And that's, that's, that can be really hard. So on the days when you do count and no, didn't mean no, you need to give yourself grace because there's a new day.

And I would even go so far as a, you know, if they're able to understand apologizing to your child and say, you know what I told you no. And then you did it anyways. And I didn't do anything and I'm sorry.

I need to, because I love you and I, and it's important that you learn. Um,.

Tanner Iskra. So just jump on, on that. And this is going to apply as your kids get older, especially two to four, but in that five to 10 year age, when you lose your temper, you over-discipline you're angry.

You have to go to your child. They need to see that mom needs grace too. And dad needs more forgiveness too, because you know what? I, I, you send and I send against you and neither of us glorified God.

Karis I'd say that's one of the biggest relationship builders with your kids is when you apologize to them because it shows them that you are human like them and meaning you will understand when they mess up because you do it.

And, um, so they'll be more willing to tell you when they mess up when you don't know. Yeah. That's a huge relationship builder. Tanner Iskra.

Yeah. Cause you can flip it on the positive too. Like, Hey, look, mommy and daddy confess our sins to you and we mess up and send towards you. And then we, our motivation to love you is based upon what God has done for us.

And we want you to do the same. Like we want you to confess to us when you're absent. And we also want you to love us because of what God has and then the promise of that is joy and peace. And we'll get into that.

Karis. Yeah. But I just didn't want, I wanted to make that note to the ladies. Cause I've, I've been there and you know, John would come home and he would be a little frustrated that when, you know, when he would see one of the kids, I'd tell them no.

And they'd go and push the boundaries anyways. And he's like, why do you let them do that? And in my mind, I'm like, because I I've been with them 12 hours today, waking hours of them. And I am at my limit.

So I get it. And that's okay. Every day is a new day. You know, you if, like I said, if they're old enough to understand, you talk to them about it and you start over the next day and you ask God for help.

But beating yourself up about it and giving up will not solve anything. So, so Judith, we've covered the early stages. Let's get.

Family Meals, Church Priorities, and Relationships in the Middle Years

Into the harder stages now. Years five to 10, this is where you're having legitimate conversations with your kids that matter. You can talk about grace and mercy. And I think your purposes are going to be here more important because this is where your children, one, give you opportunities to give them mercy, mercy and grace and talk about it.

But number two, also start showing them in the structure of your life what the purpose of your home is for. So I'll start with a couple and I'll let you add on to it. But early on, you and I have decided that family time around mealtime was kind of like the law just wasn't going to be broken.

Right. Which was really hard.

And maybe this applies to moms who don't have their husbands there during dinner. But a lot of our dinnertime, you were in, you were in seminary and working. And so I had dinnertime by myself and that was extremely hard.

It was. And it made the days harder because so much is accomplished at the dinner table. That's right. As far as teaching and training. Yeah. I mean, our dinnertime table.

Talk right now, it's probably a little bit different than what it was back then. I mean, now we're dealing with politics and sexuality and movies and relationships and stuff like that. But back then we were teaching the kids how to be kind and how to sit at the table and how to eat.

How to be thankful for what's in front of them.

How not to give us commentary about the food. I don't like this. We don't. That's not what we do. And teaching our children what adequacy is and that guess what? You know, I don't know. I guess there could be differences on parenting on this.

Well, a lot of it. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say teaching your children, we don't necessarily eat based upon what we like. This is what was made.

For you and you're going to learn how to eat that. That's right. Yeah. But a lot of it was just sitting still and eating, which is hard for that age. But yeah. Yeah. And actually eating.

Right. My poor boys. I don't know what it is. I've never had to threaten a child. Be like, are you kidding me? You got to. Anyways, we're not going to get into that. But in that age of five to ten, that structure of spending time with them, you know, Jodith, I think we can be open here.

We've never really had like consistent family devotions where we're always reading our Bible at a certain time or a certain day. But we did. We do have consistent conversations or we do take time to ask questions.

And I try to be creative and like, hey, let's talk about tonight. Last night we were talking about, you know, how one could approach the Bible. And but sometimes we'll talk about politics or we'll just talk about feelings and emotions or events that happen.

But the point of it is that we're talking, we're creating that habit. And I'm telling you, when the kids know that at dinnertime there's going to be an opportunity to talk, the kids do bring up stuff they're thinking about, whereas there's this and that going on and you just don't have that time.

So it's important that you create that time, especially when they're at that age where they have that expectation, where they know, hey, this is where we come together and this is where there's a freedom to talk about things, about whatever it is they want to talk about.

And again, that goes back down to your purpose, right? Because what you can do at dinner can really help structure or maybe it's after dinner. I mean, I know there's a lot of work schedule and things in there and the point of it is it's not necessarily dinner, but find something that it creates that normalcy.

I'm going to step on some toes here and then we'll move on to this next section because it's going to, but your view of your relationship with God in the kingdom and your church will really start coming out at this age because this is where kids start getting involved in sports and activities.

And Judith and I had to have a frank conversation in that we want our kids to be involved in things, but when those involvements change the structure of our home, have more influence than we have, and really pull us away from the positive reinforcement that scripture calls us to, which is the church, then, you know, we had to teach our children and we didn't just say no to them.

We told them why we explained to them, like one of the things is we're just not out late on Saturday nights. And that's a big deal when they're little, not when they're little, when they get older, but um, it is hard.

I mean, there are times where I, you know, I think our kids, you know, our culture is like, oh, well they're missing out and they're not getting this. But I'm like, yeah, but I'm responsible for their heart and I'm going to make sure that that becomes the priority, not what.

Sports program that they're a part of or, I know. Which again is hard. I mean, especially because we homeschool, I mean, now two of our kids are in, are in a classical school, but we homeschool. And so the first question people would ask me is, oh, are your kids in any extracurricular activities or what extracurricular activities are they in?

And I just, in our culture, it's just a really big push and it's pressure and, and it's money. Like it's a lot. And so, um, just not getting caught up in that. Now, again, we don't want to say no, just for the sake of saying no.

There are a lot of great experiences out there. We just, I think it goes back to mindset, like our mindset and where, you know, where's this gonna, where's this gonna be in our family.

Priorities. A lot of times people put their hope in there, you know, I didn't make it in sports or this event or this whatever. And so we put our pressure on our kids that that's, you know, that's your ticket and that, you know, we all joke about that.

I'm like, well, let's get Jane a scholarship to golf because that's going to be my ticket for retirement. And it's a joke, but sometimes as parents, we can do that. And we just have to be careful. This is also the time where we start talking about relationships, not sexually, but definitely what does it look like?

Cause this is where they are going to be having relationships. The age of nine and 10, I can remember even just in our little neighborhood in Nolensville where I'm watching these kids have conversations and they don't know I'm in the garage, but you know, there's these three little girls at the top of the drive and they're, they're trying to, you know, they're talking about kissing and marriage.

And it was just, I said, well, just guess what it's time. But the point of it is we don't want to allow the world cause the world's going to basically completely overturn what the scripture has to say about this.

And so I think as scary as it may be, we want to help you and make this comfortable and make this normal that you informing your children on what relationships should look like should come from the home and not from the Spotify, Netflix, or the school playground.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a lot.

Of different takes on this too. So I'll just say what we do personally, but I was very purposeful about talking to my kids about relationships and you know, what happens when you start to like a boy or a girl and how does that affect your other friendships?

And, you know, just kind of talking through that instead of just going along with the cultural view that it's normal to have a girlfriend, it's normal to have a boyfriend and just expect it. I just felt like that took the pressure off of them as from looking at everybody of the opposite sex as a option, you know, instead it was just like, man, I am friends with all these people and it's great.

So I feel like that conversation, because again, culturally they are taught from a very young age about boyfriend and girlfriend. And, um, and I, I get it. The teasing it's, it's can be really funny because God made us that way and we're drawn that way.

But at the same time, I think it's important that we take over and make sure we're the one forming their thoughts and their, their view about, um, those relationships and, and what's the point of them starting.

And so that drives when they should.

Start and that's good. Yeah. Well, we're going to do a whole episode on dating and relationships. So we're not going to do that to now, but this is just sticking to the purpose of it. Remember the world's going to give your children a purpose for their life and their relationships.

It is our responsibility to say, actually, uh, our relationship should be in a reflection of our relationship with our father. And so it's not about what I get from you. It's about what I get to give you.

And this is the opportunity to show love and kindness. And again, it starts at home.

Identity, Technology, and Guarding the Mind in the Teen Years

Within our marriages. And I will say that affects, I mean, we, I immediately went to dating relationships, but I think that's important for friendships too. Um, you know, we're not just friends with somebody because of what they can do for us and how they make us feel or where their popularity status is, but really seeking to love the person in front of us, you know?

Yeah. That's so good. Uh, the last.

Thing I, you know, the age is 12 to 18. I think we're going to cover a lot more when we do the dating. Cause that's kind of where that's at, but this is also those formative years where you're talking to your children about who they are and what they want to be.

And the world is creating identities out there that you are your career. You are your gender. You are whoever you choose to be sexually. You are your money. You are your social status of like, do you have 5 ,000 friends or not?

Right. Your clothes even. Yeah. And this is probably the last thing I want to talk about here is like our choice on how we influence our children. And so specifically, um, you know, we, we just, our, our kids didn't have phones, you know, that was kind of one of our choices.

I think.

Karis was 16. She got her first phone. She bought an iPad first. She bought her own iPad. That's.

Right. But she didn't have access to really anything other than games and her Grammy. She takes Grammy. But the point of it was we were trying to say, all right, listen, the world has a lot of pressure.

What kids have to do. And if I can remove some of those pressures from my kids, I'm going to do that. Not because I'm trying to isolate them, but just introducing them to, to, to something without having to think through it.

It's just, I didn't want to do that. Um, you know, and we're not here to tell you when you should give your kids a phone or whatever, but it's more than an age. It's more than an age, right? Cause some of my kids have done great with technology.

Some of them haven't, but I just want to challenge all the parents on here is remember what your goal and purpose is. And just because your kids ask to be on social media, it doesn't mean you should do it.

It doesn't mean how many times that you do it. You need to sit down and walk them through this. Like, what are the dangers? What are the expectations? And, you know, um, a lot of our kids, after we kind of explain to them what's happening, they're kind of like, yeah, I don't think I really want to be on there.

And that was helpful for us because I have had more parenting, uh, counseling issues with parents and social media than a lot of other things where it's just, it's insane what those kids have to endure on social media.

We're both on social media, but we're also adults who know how to govern our hearts and govern our minds. And it's even hard for us sometimes we unfollow people. Cause it's like, I can't really be a part of, I can't, I can't deal with that right now.

So my encouragement to you is don't even take what we're doing. You need to think about your purpose. You need to think about your home, your child, what you're accomplishing. And just because you're getting pressure from the world doesn't mean you have to give into it because your kids are gonna want to fit in.

And if you start early on those who love Christ and exalt his kingdom aren't going to always fit in. Right.