Parenting with a Purpose (Part 2) | Outside Eden

Welcome to Outside Eden, two centers discovering grace together in our marriages and parenting.

I'm your host John Moffitt, pastor of Grace Reform Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee, and with me is my beautiful wife of 20 years,

Judith, and we have four children from the ages of 6 to 18, and this is part 2 of our series.

In the first part of Parenting with a Purpose, we are explaining what is the purpose behind our parenting, what are we trying to accomplish.

We talked about that in the previous episode. Today we're going to talk about the application of that, starting from ages 0 to 1, to 2, from 3s and 4s, from 5 to 10, all the way up to 18, and how it applies in each area of those things, like how do you talk to your kids about discipline, sexuality, the book, the gospel, when to apologize.

So we hope you enjoy. We're gonna jump right into the conversation. It was one long conversation that we cut into two episodes, so we hope you enjoy.

Well, we know that the greatest liberation that can come to a center is the gospel, and so we want to raise our children to trust and believe that Christ is sufficient for everything in their life, that there's nothing more sufficient than Him, and there's nothing more glorious and wonderful than His purpose, which is to glorify

Him and to spread the light of the kingdom, right? So that becomes the focus. Everything we do spreads out from that.

So here's where things get a little complicated. Let's start, like, we're gonna work, just so that you're listening, we're gonna cover every stage from 0 to 18.

So it's, you're talking about newborn to one -year -old, and how does this person play into this,

Judith? Like, how do you take this purpose and be like, well, I've got this six months old, and I can't have a coherent conversation with him, so how does this play in?

Well, I think it's a lot about mindset, you know? By what we're doing, we can tell already what our mindset is, is towards the family and where we're putting that child in that order.

Yeah, from your experience and things I know you've read, I think it's fair to say that a six -month -old can observe the attitude and the reactions of another human being, and often...

And tone. And tone. Maybe not words, but tone. That's right. Emotion. And listen, one of the things that we have to remember when you're this, at this stage, is that you're a center taking care of a center.

Right. And sometimes the six months old and the one year, the six month to one -year -old isn't sleeping because they have something against you, you know?

It's easy to think, like, there's, you know, they have it out for me, and we just, their sinful mind can start turning into,

I'm a bad parent because this is happening, and, or the comparison game. I mean, this is probably,

Judith, where, when we were first parenting, you know, people were, we're watching people, they're watching us, and you start comparing them at this early age of, like, well, they do this at bedtime, and they do that at bedtime, and, and there's so many different preferences and ideas out there, and I think we have to be careful not to get into those.

And a lot of it's cultural, and a lot of it's gonna be how your family was raised, but the point of it is, we are trying to remind ourselves that this is a stage where there isn't a lot of, gonna be a lot of interaction, but how we treat them and how we care for them is important.

And I'll say this, it is, you need to remind yourself that your child's sleep patterns are not the gospel.

In other words, they're not your hope. And if you need, your child needs to get out of their sleep patterns because there might be an event or an opportunity to spend,

I'm just, I just, I don't, this is, I don't know, maybe this is me, and we didn't even talk about this, but sometimes it's like people will have, their whole life kind of gets pushed on pause for two years because there, they can't, there's no way they're gonna ever break a sleep cycle.

And I just think it's, there are times when we need to step back and ask ourselves what is healthy for everyone that's involved, and necessarily not always having to say, well, if this happens, then there's a, there's a ramification down the road.

Right. And here's the thing too, we need to show each other grace. Our, our society has gotten so used to telling everybody how things should be done.

And there's one way. And I just think, you know, we got to show each other grace and know that, that their motivations are, you know, pure for what, why they're doing what they're doing or why they're allowing that.

But yeah, I think again, it just all goes back to mindset. It's going to look different for everybody, but it goes back to mindset.

And if you're really, you know, question, why, why am I doing this? Why are we missing every single, you know, event so that this baby can be in bed on time?

Just, just questioning, is this temporary? Is this, what is this going to look like, you know, four years from now?

You know, just, just mindset and motivation I think is important to ask yourself about. Yeah.

And I think that's important. I can't tell you how many young parents I said, just remind you, this is only for a short amount of time as they get older, it doesn't get easier.

The complications just shift, but this, this area where it can be a little strapping does get over as I've learned that as parenting, as the kids get older,

I keep thinking it's going to get easier. It gets easier and like getting it in and out of the car, but life just gets more complicated, which makes it harder.

Not to scare you in Christ, we can do this. So, And it's not going to make or break. No, no.

And we're going to stay away from, there's a lot of, a lot of parenting methods out there from this stage and we're just not here for that.

All right. So ages two to four, Judith, this is where we think come, think things come in with like consistency, discipline.

You know, our words matter, like no means no. So here's where things can get complicated.

You were raised different than me. Your parents instructed you in a certain way that had similarities, but didn't in mine, you had rules that I didn't have.

And so we actually didn't really talk about them. I don't think we did. I can't remember. And then, so you just kind of parented the way you wanted to parent and I didn't.

And all of a sudden you're kind of looking at me like, why are you doing that? Even till like recently, you're like, why do you do that? And I'm like, I don't know.

That's why I've always done. And like, but I don't think you should do that. And then we had to have a conversation about it. And I was like, you're right. We probably shouldn't do that.

So I'll throw this to you. Like what happens? I'm going to put it to you. How important do you think it is that two parents agree on when a child disobeys what to do?

I think it's extremely important because the child needs to have clarity. They can't be confused. It'll just create frustration.

And honestly, the child will lose respect. So I think it's extremely important.

Yeah. I'm with you. And I deal with a lot of parents in our church where they don't agree.

They agree verbally to each other's face, but then when they're separately, they kind of do their own thing. And I have to say this, that if the parents are, and if you're a single parent, you know, this is, we love, we want to love on you and care for you.

And we understand this is even more complicated. And hopefully there's a good church that can support you in this, but at home you can't have the yes and the no person.

Right. This is so bad. Like mom always says yes. And dad always says no. They have to be unified because it will affect your marriage where you always feel like I'm the bad guy.

You're the good guy. And the child will catch on real fast. Yeah. And there's no consistency. Right. So what do you do?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that if you can't come to an agreement, well, first of all, I think it's just sit down and talk about and we're going to give you some points on that.

You need to talk it through and what you're going to need to need to agree on, you know, what is extreme, what is not enough.

Um, you know, what, what is the point and the goal? If you can't come into agreement, then my, this is what the church is for.

I think you should sit down with a wise couple or your pastor and say, Hey, look, we can't say we can't come to an agreement on this.

Can you help us figure out how to like navigate this? Because you can't just say, well, I guess we're not going to agree.

Right. It will cause some massive issues in the home and frustration in your marriage. So, um, so I definitely agree.

And I think consistency is so important here. I definitely say choose your battles. Right. And I remember,

I remember thinking, you know, when, when Karis was a toddler thinking, Oh wow. I, and, and judge me, it's fine, but I'm going to pretend like I didn't see that because I don't,

I mean, obviously not something unsafe or whatever, but cause I don't have the energy right now to have that battle.

Right. And so choosing your battle that way, um, or choosing your battle, like just allowing something.

Um, yeah. Yeah. And it does depend on what it is. Right. Because if it's open defiance, correct.

Yeah. Like, Hey, don't open the door and go out the front door. And they do that. You can't just pretend like you didn't see that. Right. Right.

That's not, but you know, if it's something's, you know, silly or whatever. Um, but the, the point of consistency is, is a child is going to base their emotions and they're going to base their, their structure of life on your consistency.

And without that consistency, it can create like one day you correct them for it. And the next day you don't.

Right. And those are the kinds of things I'm talking about. Like you start to rethink, is it that, is that as important as I am making it?

Right. Or is that something I can let go? That's right. Yeah. That's really good. Save it for the big things.

Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about your experience with childishness versus defiance.

Right. Um, well, and I think, especially when we're talking about this age, what two to four, two to five, you have to also understand like the physical and mental side of it, that these kids do not have the mental capacity to control their emotions.

They don't have, you know, I mean, sometimes adults barely do. So we, I just think giving them a little more grace and patience in that area.

Now, again, if it's defiance, you know, it's slapping you across the face, like my experience, you obviously have to deal with that.

But, um, I think really trying to understand the child and, and ask yourself, where is this coming from?

Why are they doing, do I need to feed them? Did, did, because I took them out during their nap time and they didn't get a nap.

Is that why this is happening? Like just really walk through those things. And I'm not saying to ignore it, but just deal with it differently.

I can remember going back to the zero to one stage. We got home with Karis a few weeks old and she is like uncontrollably crying.

And we're like, what is wrong with this child? And you pull the blanket off and a wasp goes flying out. You know? And the point of it was, is that there's a, there was, it was circuit.

She wasn't just being cranky. It was circumstantial. I can remember when we moved here, you and I got into this interesting, we never argue, you know, discussion.

And, uh, you know, I couldn't figure out why it was so important for you to always ask me why Jane, what her day was like at daycare.

And I'm like, why does it matter? You know, you're like, did you ask this, this, this, and I'm like, I'm not a detailed person.

She's breathing. She's not crying. She's not bleeding. We're good to go. You know, uh, the teacher, she can kill anybody.

Right. Right. I'm going to go. And then it's like, you finally, one day you said, John, because when she gets home, sometimes she's cranky or she's hungry or she's tired or she's lethargic.

I need to know, did she take her nap? Did she eat all of her food? Did she go to the restroom? And I was like,

Oh, okay. That makes sense now. And your point in that is you're trying to assess is my child just being selfish and sinful or is my child reacting to their body and they don't know how to tell me.

And then how can I help them learn how to deal with those feelings and those things. So I'm not, again, you don't just ignore it, but you ask yourself questions that we as adults are capable of working through for them and then help them work through that.

Um, but defiance for sure has to be dealt with. And I would say in defiance, I would say, um, attitude is a big part of that.

So even if they're obeying, but their attitude, um, isn't good.

That has to be addressed. This is the age you have to address it. And let me give you an example of that.

You tell a child, Hey, don't do that. And they're just fine. And they obey, but they're angry. Then you have, this is where you have to go to that next stage and say,

Hey, look, we need to talk about this. Um, and what you want to talk about is that you're trying to motivate your children with the same thing that should motivate us.

Like I don't obey God. You don't obey God because we're afraid of him. There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, right?

Um, he's a kind and gentle father who loves us and disciplines us with love and kindness. And so we love because he first loved us.

So we tell our children, listen, I want you to understand why I said this. And you're not gonna be able to explain this always to a two year old or four year old, but it is, they are going to respond to you and say,

Hey, listen, I just want you to know that I can see that you're still angry. Why are you angry? Like, why are you?

Well, cause I want her to do this. Okay, well let's talk about maybe why I told you you couldn't do this. And then you're, you're helping your child process their anger.

If you never help your child understand their sin, you're just going, one, you're going to be angry at them and they're going to be angry at you.

And you have two sinners angry at each other and you're never going to make progress. Yeah. And I think that's partly what we referred to at the very beginning of this was just like, um, you know, you have to teach them.

Like they're not responding correctly. So even as a three year old, four year old, I know some, I wish I would have done this with my previous three children.

It took me many years to learn it, but I avoided so many situations with Knox because I would see he was angry and frustrated and just really losing control with his emotions.

Um, and I would just hold him. I'd give him, I'd say, come here, bud. I don't even really know what's causing it.

Come here, bud. And I would just put him on my lap and just hold him and give him the longest hug and say,

I'm so sorry, you're having a hard time. And then just that act that took one minute and, um, you know, me just being willing to not have him obey me right that second, uh, opened up an entire opportunity to talk about his heart.

And for him, it gave him a second even to gain control and think, yeah,

I guess it isn't that bad. And then we can talk about his heart. Right. So again, you're taking the goal of parenting and you're letting it to get down into practical.

And I'll just say this now, that means at times that you spent time doing stuff with Knox or all of our children and the dishes didn't get done and the laundry didn't get done or you didn't get to go to the store or this event didn't get happened or whatever, whatever it is that you can step back and you and I would have these conversations where you're like, well,

I didn't get this and this and this. I'll go, well, tell me about your day. Well, this happened. I was like, Oh, so you, uh, you loved and cared for our children.

You taught them to, you taught them gospel and how to fear the Lord. Yeah. And I think it's, it's important to remember that.

Yeah. Parenting, uh, it's kind of take time. It's going to take time out of your day.

So the other thing I want to talk about is when you're dealing with childishness and defiance, one of the areas that I think we established early on and I, it really helped in our parenting is that when the kids were little, no, no, and we really had to grain that into them.

And it wasn't that I was trying to, it wasn't an annoyance thing. It was a protective thing.

Yeah. That when daddy says no. And at times I would have my kids like, you know, it's hard for them to process things at times.

So I would say no. And I could tell they aren't processing and I would stop them. And I'd say, Hey, listen, I don't think you heard me.

So I'm going to give you one more shot. I'm not going to repeat myself again. Do you understand why?

Yes, daddy. Okay. Don't do that. I, we, we never did the counting thing. Um, at times

I would raise my voice and this is what I was referencing before. You're like John using your, you're using fear to control the children and I was like, yeah, you're right.

That's probably not wise. Whereas there are times, you know, we did use consequences when the children,

I'd say, Hey, I said, no, you didn't obey. Now there's a consequence for that. So, but and that's the consistency part, because if you teach that when they're two and four, when they get to five and this next stage we're going to talk about, um, then there you're not battling.

Do I really believe what my parent is saying? You know? Like using threats over and over and over, but never using the consequence.

If you don't. And then I've, I've been in the presence of parents where they threaten their child with like a nuclear war and they're cut.

The kid knows it's never going to happen. Yeah. Let me just take a moment, take a moment to talk to the moms out there.

Um, this is hard guys. I, I 100 % know, like we've talked about Karis was, was a struggle.

Um, and I know you're exhausted and by the end of the day, you're just so tired.

And you know that if no means no, then you have to deal with that right now. And that's, that's, that can be really hard.

So on the days when you do count and no, didn't mean no, you need to give yourself grace because there's a new day.

And I would even go so far as a, you know, if they're able to understand apologizing to your child and say, you know what?

I told you no. And then you did it anyways. And I didn't do anything. And I'm sorry. I, I need to, because I love you and I, and it's important that you learn.

Um, so just jump on on that. And this is going to apply as your kids get older, especially two to four, but in that five to 10 year age, when you lose your temper, you over discipline, you're angry.

You have to go to your child. They need to see that mom needs grace too.

And dad needs more forgiveness too, because you know what? I, I, you send and I send against you and neither of us glorified

God. I'd say that's one of the biggest relationship builders with your kids is when you apologize to them because it shows them that you are human like them and meaning you will understand when they mess up because you do it.

And, um, so they'll be more willing to tell you when they mess up, when you don't know. Yeah. That's a huge relationship builder.

Cause you can flip it on the positive too. Like, Hey, look, mommy and daddy confess our sins to you. And we mess up and send towards you.

And then we, our motivation to love you is based upon what God has done for us. And we want you to do the same.

Like we want you to confess to us when you're abstinent. And we also want you to love us because of what

God is. And then the promise of that is joy and peace. And we'll get into that. Yeah. But I just didn't want, I wanted to make that note to the ladies cause

I've, I've been there and you know, John would come home and he would be a little frustrated that when, you know, when he would see one of the kids,

I'd tell them no and they'd go and push the boundaries anyways. And he's like, why do you let them do that?

And in my mind, I'm like, because I I've been with them 12 hours today, waking hours of them and I am at my limit.

So I get it. Um, and that's okay. Every day is a new day. You know, you, um, if, like I said, if they're old enough to understand, you talk to them about it and, um, start over the next day and you ask

God for help. Um, but beating yourself up about it and giving up will not solve anything.

So, so Judith, we've covered the early stages. Let's get into the harder stages. Now, um, years five to 10, this is where you're having legitimate conversations with your kids that matter.

You can talk about grace and mercy. And I think your purposes are going to be here more important because this is where your children one, give you opportunities to give them mercy, mercy and grace and talk about it.

But number two, also start showing them in the structure of your life, what the purpose of your home is for.

So, um, I'll start with a couple and I'll let you add onto it. But early on you and I have decided that, um, family time around meal time was kind of like the law just wasn't going to be broken.

Right. Which was really hard. And maybe this applies to moms who don't have their husbands there during dinner.

But a lot of our dinner time, you were in, you were in seminary and working. And so I had dinner time by myself.

And that was extremely hard and it made the days harder because so much is accomplished at the dinner table.

That's right. As far as teaching and training. Yeah. I mean, well, our dinner time table talk right now, it's probably a little bit different than when it was back then.

I mean, now we're dealing with politics and sexuality and movies and relationships and stuff like that.

But back then we were teaching the kids, um, how to be kind and how to sit at the table and how to eat.

How to be thankful for what's in front of them. How not to give us commentary about the food. I don't like this.

We don't, that's not what we do. And, uh, teaching our children what adequacy is and that, guess what?

Um, you know, I don't know. I guess there could be differences on parenting on this. Well, I was just going to say like teaching your children, you, we don't necessarily eat based upon what we like.

Like this is what was made for you and you're going to learn how to eat. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of it was just sitting still and eating, which is hard for that age.

But yeah. Yeah. And actually eating, right. My poor boys.

I don't know what it is. I've never had to threaten a child be like, are you kidding me? You got to eat. Anyways, we're not going to get into that, but that in that age of five to 10, um, that structure of spending time with them, you know,

Jodith, I think we can be open here. We've never really had like consistent family devotions where we're always reading our

Bible at a certain time or a certain day. But we did, we do have consistent conversations or we do take time to ask questions.

And I try to be creative and like, Hey, let's talk about this tonight. Last night we were talking about, you know, how one could approach the

Bible. And, um, but sometimes we'll talk about politics or we'll just talk about feelings and emotions or events that happen.

But the point of it is that we're talking, we're creating that habit. And I'm telling you when the kids know that at dinnertime there's going to be an opportunity to talk, the kids do bring up stuff they're thinking about.

Whereas there's this and that going on and you just don't have that time. So it's important that you create that time, especially when they're at that age where they have that expectation where they know,

Hey, this is where we come together. And this is where there's a freedom to talk about things, um, about whatever it is they want to talk about.

And again, that goes back down to your purpose, right? Because what you can do at dinner can really help structure or maybe it's after dinner.

I mean, I know there's a lot of work schedule and things in there. And the point of it is it's not necessarily dinner, but find something that it creates that, that normalcy.

I'm going to step on some toes here and then we'll move on to this next section because it's going to, but, um, your view of your relationship with God in the kingdom and your church will really start coming out at this age because this is where kids start getting involved in sports and activities.

And Juice and I had to have a, you know, a frank conversation in that we want our kids to be involved in things.

But when those involvements change, the structure of our home have more influence than we have and really pull us away from the positive reinforcement that scripture calls us to, which is the church.

Then, you know, we had to teach our children. And we didn't just say no to them. We told them why we explained to them. Like one of the things is we're just not out late on Saturday nights.

And that's a big deal when they're little, not when they're little when they get older. But, um, it is hard.

I mean, there are times where I, you know, I think our kids, you know, our culture is like, Oh, well they're missing out and they're not getting this.

But I'm like, yeah, but I'm responsible for their heart. And I am going to make sure that that becomes the priority, not what sports program that they're a part of.

Or I know, which again is hard. I mean, especially because we homeschool,

I mean, now two of our kids are in are in a classical school, but we homeschool. And so the first question people would ask me is,

Oh, are your kids in any extracurricular activities or what extracurricular activities are they in?

And I just, in our culture, it's a, it's just a really big push and it's pressure and, and it's money.

Like it's a lot. And so, um, just not getting caught up in that. Now, again, we don't want to say no, just for the sake of saying no.

Yeah. There are a lot of great experiences out there. We just, I think it goes back to mindset, like our mindset and where, you know, where's this gonna, where's this gonna be in our family priorities.

A lot of times people put their hope in there, you know, I didn't make it in sports or this event or this whatever.

And so we put our pressure on our kids that that's, you know, that's your ticket and that, you know, we all joke about that.

I'm like, well, let's get Jane a scholarship to golf because that's going to be my ticket for retirement. And it's a joke, but sometimes as parents, we can do that.

We just have to be careful. Um, this is also the time where we start talking about relationships, not sexually, but definitely.

Um, what does it look like because this is where they are going to be having relationships. The age of nine and 10,

I can remember even just in our little neighborhood in Nolensville where I'm watching these kids have conversations and they don't know

I'm in the garage, but you know, there's these three little girls at the top of the drive and they're, they're trying to, you know, they're talking about kissing and marriage.

And it was just, I said, well, just guess what it's time. But the point of it is we don't want to allow the world because the world's going to basically completely overturn what the scripture has to say about this.

And so I think, um, as scary as it may be, we want to help you and make this comfortable and make this normal, that you informing your children on what relationships should look like should come from the home and not from the

Spotify, Netflix or the school playground. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think there's a lot of different takes on this too. So, um, I'll just say what we do personally, but I was very purposeful about talking to my kids about relationships and, you know, what happens when you start to like a boy or a girl and, uh, how does that affect your other friendships?

And, you know, just kind of talking through that instead of just going along with the cultural view that it's normal to have a girlfriend, it's normal to have a boyfriend and just expect it.

Um, I just felt like that took the pressure off of them as, um, from looking at everybody of the opposite sex as a option, you know, instead it was just like, man,

I am friends with all these people and it's great. So I feel like that conversation, because again, culturally, they are taught from a very young age about boyfriend and girlfriend.

And, um, and I, I get it. The teasing it's, it's can be really funny because God made us that way and we're drawn that way.

But at the same time, I think it's important that we take over and make sure we're the one forming their thoughts and their, their view about those relationships and what's the point of them starting.

And so that drives when they should start. And that's good. Yeah. Well, we're going to do a whole episode on dating and relationships.

So we're not going to do that to now, but this is just sticking to the purpose of it. Remember the, the world's going to give your children a purpose for their life and their relationships.

It is our responsibility to say, actually, uh, our relationship should be in a reflection of our relationship with our father.

And so it's not about what I get from you. It's about what I get to give you. And this is the opportunity to show love and kindness.

And again, it starts at home within our marriages. And I will say that affects, I mean, we, I immediately went to dating relationships, but I think that's important for friendships to, um, you know, we're not just friends with somebody because of what they can do for us and how they make us feel or where their popularity status is, but really seeking to love the person in front of us, you know?

Yeah. That's so good. Uh, the last thing I, you know, the ages 12 to 18, I think we're going to cover a lot more when we do the dating, cause that's kind of where that's at.

But this is also those formative years where you're talking to your children about who they are and what they want to be.

And the world is creating identities out there that you are your career. You are your gender.

You are whoever you choose to be sexually. You are your money. You are your social status of like, do you have 5 ,000 friends or not?

Your clothes even. Yeah. And this is probably the last thing I want to talk about here is like our choice on how we influence our children.

And so specifically, um, you know, we, we just, our, our kids didn't have phones, you know, that was kind of one of our choices.

I think Karis was 16. She got her first phone. She bought an iPad first. She bought her own iPad.

That's right. But she didn't have access to really anything other than games and her Grammy. She takes Grammy. But the point of it was we were trying to say, all right, listen, the world has a lot of pressure.

What kids have to do and if I can remove some of those pressures from my kids, I'm going to do that. Not because I'm trying to isolate them, but just introducing them to, to, to something without having to think through it.

It's just, I didn't want to do that. Um, you know, and we're not here to tell you when you should give your kids a phone or whatever, but it's more than an age.

It's more than an age, right? Cause some of my kids have done great with technology. Some of them haven't, but I just want to challenge all the parents on here is remember what your goal and purpose is.

And just because your kids ask to be on social media, it doesn't mean you should do it. It doesn't mean how many times that you do it.

You need to sit down and walk them through this. Like what are the dangers? What are the expectations? And you know, um, a lot of our kids, after we kind of explain to them what's happening, they're kind of like, yeah,

I don't think I really want to be on there. And that was helpful for us because I have had more parenting, uh, counseling issues with parents and social media than a lot of other things where it's just, it's insane what those kids have to endure on social media.

We're both on social media, but we're also adults who know how to govern our hearts and govern our minds.

And it's even hard for us. We unfollow people because it's like, I can't really be a part of, I can't,

I can't deal with that right now. So my encouragement to you is don't even take what we're doing.

You need to think about your purpose. You need to think about your home, your child, what you're accomplishing. And just because you're getting pressure from the world doesn't mean you have to give into it because your kids are gonna want to fit in.

And if you start early on, those who love Christ and exalt his kingdom aren't going to always fit in.

Right. And I think that's important to just constantly be comparing that to what the Bible says, cause we are to be a peculiar people.

We are aliens in this world and we're in it and we don't not do things just for the sake of being different, but we definitely shouldn't just be falling in line and going along with what everybody else is doing because we don't want to feel weird about our kids or we don't want to have to explain to people why our kids aren't doing that.

Again, it's our responsibility to shape and disciple and shepherd their hearts. And sometimes that's going to require us to just be, take a different route.

That's right. Well, a good example of this is how many, how much sexual confusion there is in just young children these days where they can't decide what their gender is or who they're attracted to.

And a lot, all of that is a cultural pressure. And so if you don't think the culture can pressure your children, these are great examples of it's absolutely out there.

And so you can't keep your kids out of the world and we're not supposed to be out of the world, but you can help your children determine what influences their mind, right?

The, the, all of our actions are the battle of the mind. And Paul tells us that we were to take captive every thought that we have.

And so teaching our children to not just embrace everything they hear, like, well, their friend says this, this, well, just think about the, where is that coming from?

And is that true? And just because, you know, it's like these days, if it's on the internet, it's true. And that goes back to just teaching them who their identity is in that will be less of an issue.

If they're being constantly reminded of who they are in Christ and that that is actually real.

That's so good. Well, this has already turned into multiple episodes. This has been very long recording for Judith and I, we've been sitting here for a while and we don't really have the timer up today.

It's getting this off recording, but we just want to say, thank you for listening. If you have any followup questions, uh, feel free to reach out to theocast .org.

There's a contact page there. And we'll try our best. We're probably towards the end of our first season.

We'll maybe do a Q and a based upon some of the episodes that we have done, but thank you guys for listening. And I know we've covered a ton in this episode.

We'll, we'll do more, I promise. So we'll hear back from you and we'll deal directly with your guys' questions, but we wanted to give a general idea.

Judith and I have so many examples of how we have failed and messed up into this day. We'd love to share them so you don't have to mess up as much.

That's right. So the biggest advice I'd like to give you, and then I'll let you to say anything is remind yourself that you need

God's grace and you walk in God's grace and you need your children. You have to give them that same grace, not so that they can disobey or get away with everything, but they need to see their sin and you need to show it to them so that they can rely on God for help because they can't by sure willpower make this work.

They need to depend upon God as you do. And it's your job to teach them and instruct them in that.

So that's my final thought. I would just say, Mamas, this is just hard. Parenting is really hard and each age brings its own challenges and its own joys.

Just because it's hard doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It's just hard because we're dealing with hearts and we're sinners leading sinners.

So I would just encourage you in that to give yourself grace, your spouse grace, and your children grace.

And, um, don't give up, don't give up and just keep asking God for direction and help.

Uh, we're not sure what the next episode will be. It might be on dating. I don't know. It depends. We just sit down and kind of determine what we feel like talking about tonight.

So thank you for enduring with us and we hope this is beneficial to you and God bless you. See you next time.