Good Faith Debate on Public School Part 3 - TGC Offers a Clinic*

AD Robles

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March 2, 2023

Gospel Coalition - The Least Loving Christian Blog in History? (Good Faith/Public School Part 4)

00:00: All right, let's do this. Let's do this. We're gonna continue the good faith debate on public school with featuring
00:08: Jen Wilkin and some other guys. I've been getting some good feedback about it. People seem to really be enjoying it.
00:15: I'm glad you did. I'm glad that you're watching. This video is getting quite a bit of traction.
00:21: It is probably, I wouldn't, I mean, I'm not sure, but it's probably their most watched good faith debate ever. Again, I think a lot of people are hate watching it, which is great.
00:30: And a lot of people are enjoying my take, so we're gonna continue. Yeah, I guess that's it.
00:36: Let's just continue. It's best for our families. We don't do so in a vacuum. We understand that what we do for our family always impacts the community around us and that we should look to the welfare of the city in which we live.
00:49: And that there are a lot of ways to do that. Right, so let's just stop here. There was a couple of things
00:54: I wanted to mention. So here she is making the point that, you know, you shouldn't just make a decision for your family because, you know, we're supposed to consider others as more important than ourselves.
01:05: You know, if you really want, if you want a thorough refutation of her using that passage in this way,
01:11: I would recommend going to Right Response Ministries. Joel Webben, he did a review of this as well.
01:19: And I gotta say, I appreciate Joel's take so much. He completely decimated this point about how you should not do what's right for you and your family.
01:30: And instead do this thing where, you know, you gotta consider the whole community before you decide what's right for you and your family and all of that kind of thing.
01:38: And yeah, he just completely decimates that. But I did want to review, because at one point in this whole thing, she said that one of the benefits of going to public school is that because the public school pagans are just out and proud pagans, you know, it really helps you as a
01:55: Christian because you get to see yourself growing in faith and in holiness in comparison to the pagans that are all around you.
02:02: And that's a benefit. And she kind of contrasts that with being around a bunch of hypocritical
02:07: Christians where you're never sure if you're really growing. It's hard to really put into words how stupid that is.
02:16: Basically she's saying, I know the Bible says, you know, bad company corrupts good morals and all of that.
02:23: I understand that's fine, but it's actually better for your kids to be around a bunch of pagans so that they know that they're growing in the fear of the abomination of the
02:32: Lord. She is saying that's actually better than being around Christians because Christians, she believes the propaganda about Christians and she thinks
02:39: Christians are hypocrites. So in her twisted universe, it's better to be around open pagans for your own faith than to be around hypocritical
02:47: Christians for your own faith. That is not what the Bible says at all. It is better to be around believers than it is to be around pagans all the time for children.
02:59: Obviously this is true. Obviously it's better to be in church than to go to a
03:04: Satan worshiping festival. It's better to be in church than to go to an LGBT indoctrination camp.
03:10: It's better to be in church. And this is the thing, but it's not even like those are only two options of course as well, because she's of course promoting the idea of hypocritical
03:18: Christians, but what about faithful Christians? That's also an option, right? That's also an option. What about your own family?
03:25: That's also an option. Like even in her weird twisted universe, she's still not giving you the truth.
03:31: Jen Wilkin is a skilled liar. It's skilled lying. It's skilled disingenuous arguments.
03:38: It's skilled propaganda. I'm not saying she's stupid. She's skilled. She's just a liar.
03:43: That's the problem. And it's just like what universe would it be better for your faith to be around a bunch of open, loud and proud pagans who hate the
03:50: Lord than to be around Christians? Only in Jen's universe or in fairness, in Jen's universe and also every sitcom ever.
03:59: And that's where she gets this worldview from the sitcoms. She didn't get that from the Bible where it's like, oh yeah, it's better to be spending your time and friends with and pagans, because then you'll know how much you're growing in grace.
04:16: That's not what the Bible says. I realized that my kids cannot go into my public schools.
04:23: And I do know what that looks like. You know, I have a brother who lives in a very rural setting. I do know what that looks like.
04:30: But even if I realized that my own children will not be going to those education spaces, how can
04:36: I, as a person who cares for the widow and the orphan, who cares for the fatherless, how can
04:42: I be a person who still maintains a giving presence in that space? How do I support the teachers?
04:48: How do I support the administrators? How can I volunteer in ways that are going to bring life into a system that does serve the last and the least?
04:56: Even if I can't convictionally say I can put my own kids there. And then just in closing,
05:02: I would urge charity. And I know that - And again, like this is like, in her weird twisted universe, the only option is public school in order to serve the community.
05:11: What planet is this woman from? Honestly, what planet does she live on? Because in reality, in this space, in this space,
05:20: Christians are serving the community in every single way imaginable. Christians have schools where they have
05:26: Christian education. And you know what? A lot of those schools will give you free tuition if you can't afford it, or we'll supplement your tuition, or we'll do various, you pay whatever you can pay.
05:36: Like I've heard of numerous schools like that. But according to Jen, no, you see, because you're being selfish.
05:43: You're not actually loving your neighbor because you need to support the public school teachers. Like what are you even, what planet?
05:51: She has, she puts this zero sum game where there's only two options. And then of course she chooses the wrong option.
05:57: There's obviously way more than the two options she's presenting you. But even if there were only the two options, she's still choosing the wrong option.
06:05: She's doing the worst possible thing she could possibly do in this debate. These are good faith discussions, not bad faith ones.
06:14: So I'm gonna just think that this is a good place to be able to just ignore. Maybe try stop lying if you really wanna have a good faith discussion.
06:21: Maybe stop presenting me sitcom propaganda and pretending like you're oh so wise because then
06:26: Christians be hypocrites. Maybe instead of presenting that, you could actually tell the truth about Christians and how they do serve the community and how doing what's right for you and your family very often is what's right for the community as well.
06:39: Because the community doesn't own your freaking kids. The community doesn't own any kids.
06:44: What's right for you and your family is what serves the community. But the thing is, so if you wanna have a good faith debate, this is the thing, gospel coalition is like, it's always style over substance, right?
06:57: It's like good faith stylings but actually bad faith arguments is what it is.
07:02: It's all about what appears good. I've said this before, but gospel coalition is always about what appears winsome, what appears good as opposed to what actually is good and what is actually winsome, what is holy and what is right.
07:17: It's all about appearances. It's just like the Pharisees. This is why I titled my book,
07:23: Social Justice Pharisees. Social justice is about what appears good, just like the Pharisees who wanted to appear so holy that they gave their money to God as they're disobeying
07:31: God in taking the money away from their parents. It's about what appears good, the stylings of winsomeness, the stylings of good faith.
07:40: See, they're all smiling here. It's all good faith. As they lie to your face.
07:46: This is what gospel coalition is all about. Knowledge that there is a way to follow our convictions for our families and still not have to malign the decisions of others in doing so.
08:01: Particularly when it comes to public school, I think we're of the - And you can even see it, even if you listen to this in one unit, it's like there's a way to do what's right for you and your family.
08:13: She just got done saying that that was something that wasn't right and not malign the people who choose the other thing.
08:19: She just got done saying that the Christian ideal, loving your neighbor as yourself is public school.
08:24: And if you're doing what's right for you and your family, you're selfish. She just got done doing the thing she said you shouldn't do.
08:32: It's unbelievable how they do this with a straight face and as they all smile. And of course, these two guys aren't gonna say anything to her because you don't contradict a woman.
08:42: And if you do, you apologize first. And you say it like this, I'm so grateful for you. Like that one dude in the woke church debate.
08:50: It's just so, it's unbelievable. It's like, it is
08:55: Orwellian. This is the prototype of a bad faith debate.
09:01: This is the prototype of a bad faith debate and they call it a good faith debate.
09:07: It's unbelievable how well they do the opposite of what they claim to do.
09:14: It's unbelievable how exactly upside down they are. It's not even like tilted or cockeyed.
09:20: It's like exactly upside down. It's actually pretty remarkable what you think about it.
09:25: Public, private or homeschool options. I think we're the punching bag right now. There's no reason that we wouldn't support teachers who love the
09:32: Lord, who have stayed convictionally in those spaces. There's no reason. And yet that's, you know, they hear things like the hellscape that is the public schools.
09:40: That's one of the epithets that I've heard thrown out there. And it's like, well, is that true?
09:46: Yes. Are we saying what's true, honest, just, pure and lovely? Yes, it is true. And it doesn't require you to think that every teacher is awful and every teacher is a child of hell.
09:55: But many of them are. It's just that simple. It's a hellscape.
10:03: It's a hellscape. It is an indoctrination camp. It is an evil antichrist indoctrination camp.
10:10: You should be very concerned about what is taught at the public school. You claim that you're concerned about some things.
10:16: I'd like to hear a list of those. I highly doubt that you're really concerned about anything. But the reality is that, of course, characterizing the whole doesn't require you to hate every part of the whole.
10:29: That's just not how it is, of course. Say that. And so.
10:36: It'd be different if I was saying every teacher's evil. That's different. But the public school system is evil.
10:45: My encouragement would be that everyone feels strongly about where they land on this.
10:50: Everyone. It's a big decision and you should. You should feel deep conviction about where you land. But to recognize that there is such thing as a convictional position on public schools for well -intentioned
11:03: Christian parents. Yeah, I'd like to hear it. Because all I got for you was, oh, my public schools aren't so bad and I know what's being taught there and you're gonna get a great education.
11:14: None of that is convictional. You didn't tell me in the scriptures where you got the Christian ideal of sending your kids to public school.
11:20: I know why you didn't. Because it's not there. Jen, we're not stupid.
11:26: We know why you didn't give us the convictional biblical case for this. You misuse
11:31: Philippians about considering others more important than yourselves. That has nothing to do with public school, by the way.
11:37: Nothing, absolutely nothing. But you didn't give us your biblical convictional case because there is none.
11:44: And so, please, would you start operating in good faith here? Just start. That's all
11:49: I ask. Just start to do it. Can come through the system and not just survive it, but that they can go on to thrive.
11:56: Jen, thank you for that perspective. Of course, thank you. I'm so grateful for you. I'm so grateful for you. Oh, my goodness.
12:06: Again, this is, like, you can survive the school. Even characterizing it like that betrays that you know it's a hellscape.
12:14: Yeah, human beings can survive all kinds of things. I can survive, you know, not eating for a week.
12:20: I mean, that's true. I can survive it. People have survived in Ukraine, right? They've survived carpet bombing.
12:26: People survived the bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima. They survived it. They made it. Against all odds, they made it.
12:33: Nobody's denying that. But even the way that you characterize it there, you know it's a hellscape.
12:38: You know. So why send your kids there? And if you have options, good options, why send your kids there?
12:46: It doesn't make any sense. I'm a public school kid. I came out pretty good.
12:51: I know public school is not ideal. I know public school is not the right choice for my children.
12:57: I grew up there. I had a positive experience. I wasn't beat up or anything. I had a lot of friends. I had a good time.
13:03: I enjoyed my time in public school. I didn't do drugs or alcohol until later.
13:09: You know what I mean? So I didn't fall for, like, the basic things, right? But I know many times where I was taught things that were untrue, and it affected me for a very long time.
13:19: And I only have God to thank that I've now seen the light on so many of those things, right?
13:25: God protected me during that time, and even though I was still being influenced by them, he protected me.
13:30: I know that my grandmother had a big part of that. She was praying for my soul, and I went through all kinds of hardships that I ought not to have gone through, but I went through them and I got through them, and now here
13:41: I am because Jesus Christ has vouchsafed my journey, and I get it. But the thing is, because I'm operating in faith and obedience to Christ, I don't want to disadvantage my own kids.
13:51: Does that mean that they're guaranteed to have no trouble? Of course not. We get that, but we do the best that we can, and we operate in faith, and we don't do things that make absolutely no sense for a
14:01: Christian to do. Yes, you can survive it. Does that mean you have to chance it?
14:07: No, it doesn't. When there is a much more faithful path for a
14:12: Christian, there's a much more faithful path, and it's actually explicitly commanded in the scripture, this faithful path, because you're the one responsible for this.
14:22: You don't have to make a stupid case with a verse that has nothing to do with this whole thing, and you didn't even make that case.
14:28: That was just a throwaway line. So what is the convictional case?
14:33: Are we gonna get the good faith debate? Because you've been talking for about 14 minutes, and I haven't heard your case.
14:39: All I just heard was a bunch of anecdotes about you and how you know everything your kids are doing, and you had a lot of conversations, and how they're eventually gonna be missionaries in this church, and all of this stuff.
14:48: That's all I heard. I just heard your little story. That has nothing to do with a convictional case.
14:54: I know that you really feel like you should do it, but that's actually not what I'm interested in. I don't care about the opinions of Jen Wilkin.
15:02: What I do care about is what's the convictional case. You gave us nothing, you get nothing.
15:08: This is a bad faith argument. Let's just hope that this Pennington guy has something a little bit more foundational.
15:14: I have a feeling he will. I have a feeling he will. I don't trust these guys, obviously, but I have a feeling he's seen this rodeo before.
15:25: Is that how it is, seeing a rodeo? I don't know. I appreciate the way you've thought through it. I appreciate the charity that you're offering for people who make a different decision, and you've really addressed some talking points that you do hear out there that you've thought through really well, so thanks.
15:42: None of that is true. None of that is true. She hasn't thought through them really well, and well, maybe she has, but she didn't demonstrate that.
15:49: She gave us some stories, that's true, but she, but, but, but, but. Playing, telling us about it here.
15:59: All right, Jonathan, your turn. I'm so grateful for you. What's your perspective on this issue? Yeah, thanks. I also come from a family of all teachers.
16:06: My aunts and uncles, both my parents are teachers. My sister, I have a teaching degree and student taught in the public high schools in Chicago, and so I really value -
16:15: Got her. the education for the same reasons you do in terms of the common good and other things we can talk about more, but we did raise our six -
16:25: And here's the, this is the good faith debate. Everything about this is bad faith.
16:34: It is so unbelievable. You get two people that essentially agree on the amazing goodness and wonderfulness of the public school.
16:44: In 2023, it would be so easy to find someone to tell the truth about public school in 2023.
16:54: Gospel Coalition, in their good faith debate, decided not to do that. It is unreal how subversive and bad faith
17:06: Gospel Coalition is in reality. I'm gonna try to not interrupt Jonathan too much, but we will see.
17:13: It's just unbelievable. They do this every time. I knew, I expected it, but it still somehow manages to shock me, even though I expected it.
17:24: Oh, the public schools are glorious, I agree. I agree, they're wonderful, but the common good.
17:31: I'm actually not opposed to common good arguments. I'm okay with that, but this is 2023 in the
17:39: United States. It's unreal that they refuse to send someone who will tell the truth about public schools.
17:47: It's unreal. Children, either homeschooling them or in private school or sometimes a two -day week consortium kind of thing, and we would do that again,
17:56: I think, and there are a number of reasons, again, that we can talk about, but I think before we ask the question of how we're going to educate our children as Christian parents,
18:06: I think we need to ask a more fundamental question, and that is why. What is education, and especially from a
18:12: Christian perspective, why do we educate our children? And I think when we ask that question first, it'll help us get a better chance at answering the how we're gonna do it question, and we need to start there.
18:25: And so I like to sum it all up, actually, with one Greek word, not just because I'm a Greek professor, because it's a word we don't really have in English anymore, and it's the word paideia, and we have some remnants of that word in like pediatrics and pedagogy, but what paideia meant, it was this vision that the ancient
18:41: Greeks and Romans had that the way to create a good society and the way to create people that flourish is that you need to take people from childishness to maturity or to fullness.
18:52: I like how he used the word flourishing, that's very, through intentionally developing them to love what is true and good and beautiful, and not just to know what is true and good and beautiful, but to actually love it because our emotions and our affections drive actually everything we do.
19:07: They're a huge part of our ethics, our emotions actually are, and education needs to focus on developing children and training their affections, training their understanding, training their knowledge in ways that they become whole people so that again, they can be happy themselves and also contribute to society.
19:25: Now, ancient Christians - All right, so let me just stop there. I don't really have a whole lot to disagree with here. You know,
19:30: I'm always hesitant about using Greek words. It's really unnecessary, and it kind of overcomplicates your argument, but I gotta be honest with you.
19:37: He did it in a way where it was a quick hit. It didn't get too nitty into the weeds. It was very quick, and it sets up what his case is going to be, which
19:48: I think we can all kind of guess what it's going to be, but I really like that. It's about, you know, my kids do homeschool, and they have, you know, a community day or whatever, and they know that their education is about God.
20:00: It's about, they're learning different things and about the world that God created, but ultimately, it's about God. Everything revolves around God, and that's important, because you want to know what's good and true and beautiful, but you also want to love it as well, and we love the
20:20: Creator. Anyway, really good stuff, really good stuff. I like it.
20:27: Adopted this as a category themselves, rightly so, not only for an understanding of what the message of the
20:34: Bible is, of really a theological understanding that God is shaping us and forming us into the image of Christ, taking us from childishness to wholeness, so they adopt it as a theological category, but they also adopt it as a way of thinking about how to raise our children, and that really becomes the foundation for all of Western civilization.
20:52: What I was looking for before was the, they do classical conversations, and the motto, like, the motto, whatever it's called,
20:59: I think it's a motto, is to know God and to make him known. That's the purpose of their education, to know
21:05: God and to make him known, and so they learn about God through what he's made.
21:10: They learn about God through the scripture. They learn about God through how the world works and stuff like that, but they know it's because of God that this stuff is important, right?
21:22: It's not important in and of itself, and this is fundamental to an education, and it is, not only is it lacking in public school, but it's actively taught against in public school, actively, and I'll never forget conversations with my grandmother about, it was about evolution in some way.
21:44: I didn't believe in evolution proper, but there were some things about it that even though I knew
21:50: I wasn't supposed to believe in evolution as a Christian, I didn't really ultimately know the whys, and I also was still susceptible to a lot of the more subtle teachings of that worldview, and I remember arguing with my grandmother about something, and they weren't intense arguments, but I remember her being very stern with me.
22:11: No, that is not what the scripture said, and that was a very helpful conversation.
22:16: I still remember to this day, I'm 40 years old. My grandmother just had a strong faith in the
22:22: Lord. I mean, probably, as far as scientifically sophisticated, very low, but she knew what the scripture said.
22:30: She knew the scripture very well, and that was not only lacking for my education, but it was actively taught against.
22:37: It caused conflict between me and my grandmother. I love my grandmother, of course, but this is, it's not like,
22:46: Jen has this perspective where she doesn't say this, but it almost presents the education she got at public school as sort of neutral, you know?
22:56: It's like, and if it's not totally neutral, it's not so bad. It was still a fantastic, wonderful education, and it's like, yeah, but you can't have that without the reasons why, the reasons behind it, without God as the fundamental reality and all of that.
23:14: So in any case, let's continue. Let's let, I mean, I'm not disagreeing with him. I just really like how he set that up.
23:20: Really up until the 20th century, this fundamental idea of shaping people toward the good and the true and the beautiful.
23:27: Now, Christians get this from their Jewish heritage. We're familiar with Deuteronomy 6. Let me just read these verses. Hear, O Israel, the
23:34: Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, with all your strength.
23:40: These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home, when you're walking along the road, when you lie down, when you get up.
23:49: Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and your gates.
23:56: The idea here in the Hebrew Bible and into Christian understanding as well is that education is not primarily about learning skills, job skills, or even learning self -expression or something like that.
24:11: The point of education is very clear. It's development of virtue. And the development of virtue is good for you and good for others as well.
24:18: And of course, from a Christian perspective, that virtue is oriented in God himself, that we're learning to imitate
24:23: God and to be like him and then training our children through our own model and our teaching to love the good, to love
24:29: God and to love neighbor as well. So this - Again, so I'm not disagreeing with him at all.
24:34: And I'm not saying that he's forgetting this, but one thing that is so easy to forget that it's not just in our perspective that this is the case.
24:44: This is the case. This is reality. This is the world we live in. This is reality.
24:51: So my Muslim neighbor down the street might not believe in Christ, right?
24:57: And my atheist neighbor, my Satanist neighbor, my LGBT neighbor, they might not believe in Christ, but this is true for them as well.
25:05: This is true for them as well. And so to teach my LGBT Satanist neighbor about how to do mathematics, what good is that for them if they're not learning to love and know
25:15: Jesus Christ as well? What good is that? Why is that a fantastic? And not only are they not taught that, they're taught the opposite.
25:24: See, this is very important to understand. It's like from our perspective, that's true, but it's also reality.
25:32: No matter what perspective you take, this is still true. I don't care what you believe, this is reality.
25:40: And so when we're dealing in reality, we need to accept reality as it is.
25:45: We don't step into this space and accept reality. Then when we step into public school space, now all of a sudden, we don't really, we pretend like reality isn't reality, and now all of a sudden the common good becomes something else other than knowing
25:57: God and making Him known. Like that's, I'm not saying that Pennington's doing this, but it's so easy to do that where it's like the common good now all of a sudden becomes something besides something that's
26:11: Christ -centered. Now it's an educated populace that's flourishing, somehow flourishing without Christ, somehow.
26:20: And I think that Jen's perspective promotes this idea that that's somehow possible, where you kind of step into this space and you're a
26:27: Christian, and yeah, you're still a Christian over here in this space, but in this space, there's a different common good other than knowing
26:34: God and making Him known. And so we can educate without that stuff, and it's still a fantastic common good education, because why, why,
26:45: I don't know. I don't know what she would say to that. The vision, like I said, has really driven education for Christians forever.
26:53: The women - Listen, if public schools were explicitly Christian, if we had a Christian nation, I'm not saying that we couldn't come up with a moral way to have a public school, right?
27:03: We could come up with a moral way to have a public school, and a moral way to fund a public school, and a moral way to teach, and a moral curriculum.
27:11: I'm not saying that's impossible, but it's gotta be in the context of a
27:16: Christian nation. Look, if you're a Muslim or an atheist or whatever, and you wanna come to the public school, that's fine.
27:23: You can come, but we're teaching Christ there. We're making God known and we're learning to know
27:30: God. We're teaching morality, Christian morality, because it's not just Christian morality.
27:36: That's actually, that's what morality is. That's reality. That's why you wanna be a moral person? Then you gotta get that from the
27:42: Lord. You gotta get that from Christ. And so, we don't make accommodations.
27:48: There's no common good outside of Jesus Christ. There's no common good outside of what
27:54: God has said, what God has told us. There is no other common good where it's like, well, you just take
28:00: Christ out and you still have mathematics. It's like, no, no, no, that's actually not how it works. That's not how it works.
28:08: We're in a real dilemma for Christian parents today, because even though up until probably the 20th century, public education in the
28:17: United States would have also spoken that exact same way. In the 20th century, you begin to lose that.
28:23: Even in the mid 20th century, people like C .S. Lewis and Dorothy Sayers are already beginning to, or they're seeing lots of problems and beginning to write about it.
28:32: And Dorothy Sayers wrote a famous essay about this that really became the foundation for the modern classical school movement.
28:40: And so, already in mid 20th century, they're seeing that education has lost its bearings. And that it's not -
28:46: Christians are seeing this. Christians are understanding this. Christians are knowing this. But no, Jen Wilkins come along and said, you know, all those
28:54: Christians from before, they're just not loving the neighbor. They're not loving the neighbor.
28:59: They don't know that they can't make the decision that's good for them in there. They don't know. They don't know. Christians are hypocrites too, by the way.
29:06: I learned that on Big Bang Theory. People for virtue - I don't know why that's her voice, but that's just what -
29:11: It's becoming focused on job skills and, you know, self -expression only. And if that was true in the mid 20th century,
29:19: I think how much more now, with all the pressures of college debt and the narrowing of knowledge to STEM fields and the focus that why do you get an education so that you can get a good job?
29:32: That kind of mindset is, you know, rampant and is really, really dominates education at every level now.
29:39: And add to that the difficulties of many moral issues that Christians face, it really puts
29:45: Christian parents in a huge dilemma. And so while I, you know, we chose to homeschool and private school our kids.
29:53: And while I completely respect and agree that we should, you know, Christian parents need to do what they're able to do.
29:59: And if public school is their choice, that's great. I think the key thing is that we need -
30:04: It's not great though. You should avoid it at all costs. At all costs, you should avoid it.
30:10: And this is the thing, like, you know, I really like what John is promoting here, you know, but he's just, it's just not enough.
30:19: This is why we're in the position we are because we've got revolutionaries like Jen Wilkin saying, oh, the
30:24: Christian ideal is public school. And then our pushback that's presented to us is public school's great.
30:30: It's just not God's best for you. Like, that's essentially the problem. It's not God's best for you.
30:36: And it's like, no, that's not enough. That's not enough. To make sure we're starting.
30:43: It's so pathetic, like the Gospel Coalition thinks that this is a good faith presentation. I'm not saying John Pennington has not given us his real opinion.
30:50: I'm not saying that. I'm not, this is not the debate. This is not the debate where it's like, is public school the greatest thing ever or is it not
30:59: God's best for you? No, that's not the debate. And everyone I think kind of knows that.
31:05: And so they see this expecting to actually, you know, really hash out the issues and they don't get that.
31:10: It's just, it's, again, I was expecting it. It's still surprising how skilled they are at being subversive, at being upside down, at doing the opposite of what they claim to do.
31:24: It is unreal how skilled they are. It's a question of what actually education is for and why we're doing it.
31:31: If you start with that, I think it makes the decision a little bit easier if you have a choice.
31:38: And again, many, many parents simply do not have a choice. It's like, it's just like, just say what you mean. I can see what you're saying.
31:44: If you start with the assumption that education is about loving Christ and knowing Christ and creating virtuous people and you know that virtue is defined by Jesus Christ and his law and all you can muster,
32:00: Pennington, is, this is Pennington, right? I keep saying Pennington, but Jonathan Pennington, yeah.
32:07: You know that, that's your foundation. And all you can muster is that might make the decision a little easier, not a, it's still a tough call.
32:16: I mean, I don't know, you know, because, you know, education is about knowing and loving Christ and they don't do that at public school.
32:25: It's not, it's still a tough call though. Like, should I do it? I don't know. Like, all you can muster is maybes and mights and a little easier.
32:32: It's like, take a stand, man. Where's, I need a little fire in the belly. Where's the fire in the belly?
32:39: It's just unreal. It's like, this is all you got. This is what you got. And in the beginning, don't you remember, they said this was a, you know, heated debate or they said something about how this is a, there's a spirited debate or something like that.
32:51: And I said at the time, I said, there's no way they're going to get spirited. It's like, this is what I'm talking about. That's all you got.
32:58: And you need to encourage people. You need to encourage parents. Look, there are, I'm sure there are some situations that are extreme situations where you literally can't, you have no options but to send your kid to public school.
33:09: I'm sure there are some situations like that. Chances are, parent, you are not in one of those situations.
33:15: We need to be encouraged. We need to be, I'm prodded a little bit.
33:21: It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some exceptions. You don't have one though. You don't have one because I see those two cars in your driveway.
33:28: I see you get a new one every five years. I see the big house you live in. I see all this stuff. You could actually downsize your lifestyle and put your kids in private school or homeschool or whatever it is.
33:39: Or you don't even have to downsize your lifestyle. Because again, there's a lot of help out there for parents that want to do the right thing.
33:45: There's a lot of help available. And if you go to your church and they can't help, maybe they can find someone who can help. It's worth the effort, guys.
33:54: There are some people that don't have a choice. Chances are, you're not one of those people.
34:00: Chances are, you just need to think about it a little bit more or try a little bit harder or downsize your situation or whatever the situation may be.
34:07: I don't know you. We're just talking in a video here. We need to be encouraged, man. We need someone with a little fire in the belly to say, look, don't send your kids to the enemy indoctrination camp and do whatever it takes to not do it.
34:19: We don't need educations about loving Christ. I know they don't teach loving Christ in public school in 2023.
34:26: It's still a tough call. Make sure, maybe think about that. Consider it. It might make your life a little easier, your decision a little bit tougher.
34:36: It's like, man, I just honestly like, evangelicals are thirsty, are thirsty for just someone to just show a little backbone, to show a little fire in the belly, a little zeal, a little bit of energy.
34:55: We just need something, a little energy. And we've got some guys like that. We definitely do.
35:01: But even when we have those guys, like we're still like in a desperate, it's like a famine out there, right?
35:07: We've got some good restaurants to go to, but there's just not enough, right?
35:13: We just, we want so much more. You know what I mean? It's just, this is what we're presented.
35:23: It's shocking. It's absolutely shocking. It's like, I gave you like an ironclad foundation and the best you got is still a tough call, but it might make your decision a little easier.
35:41: I think I need to end there. I think I need to end there. We will pick it up next time.