Q&A part 2

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Join us this Thursday as we move into part 2 of having a guest on our show to ask us questions.

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Matthew 24 part 3

Matthew 24 part 3

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Beat out, I'ma flatten it That bottle thump on the thump More than a bottle on on that pump
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Thumpin' the trigger, pullin' my paint shooter That 66 double barrel That clip loaded, it never needs reloadin'
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It stays loaded like Noah sippin' That grape juice swervin' in a boat Full of dinosaurs and no traffic
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Seein' doubles with more eyes than Seraphim I can tear a limb off your dead body With no grabbin'
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Nine Romans to blind chosen for eyes Open only the elect get a eye poke Ain't no dope grabbin'
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The devil is a liar and he wears pajamas Repeat on him, he feminist, punk tenderless Hope addict, he got freedom from pride
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Issues and world wars In a dress and high -heeled shoes On him, he Pope Catholic Ain't no dope addicts goin' to God for the dope
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We gospel affiliated, you woke pastors I'm the one for gavelin' I am one of the co -hosts for this podcast
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I am the pastor of Covenant Reform Baptist Church We meet in Tallahoma, Tennessee And I'm here with my good brothers
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I'll pass it over to Brayden first Yeah, thank you Jeff Yeah, Pastor Brayden from Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho It's a privilege to be able to meet with these men on a weekly basis as well as talk to each other on a daily basis just about God, theology, scripture and so on and so forth
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Funny memes Yes, funny memes, lots of funny memes That's the best I'm telling you, we're going to get a lot more
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Will Smith smackings memes here soon Oh my goodness So if you live in the southern
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Idaho area please come check out our church We'd love to have you I'll pass it on to Haps, Brother Haps Hi, I'm Pastor Haps Addison of Olive Branch Ministries and I'm out of southern
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California in the lower desert Boom You gotta pass it
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Oh, I pass it Pass it to Hannes So I'm Hannes, I'm a member of Olive Branch Ministries I'm also a member of Faith Community Church in Hemet I've known my pastor,
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Pastor Happy, for about four years So yeah, I'm a servant here unto
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Christ and through my pastor and so forth and so on Alright, well as y 'all see so Hannes was on the podcast last week and he asked us some questions and so he said he'd be up to do it again this week so we got him back on and he's going to ask us questions
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We don't know the depth of what he's going to ask I know it might be a little bit of eschatology here, might be a little bit of justification, sanctification or pastoral ministry
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I got a whole bunch of readings from him so we don't quite know yet I'm not no prophet or son of a prophet
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There's going to be more questions But I am from the trailer park so trailer park people are nosy So here we go
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Well you are talking to a schizophrenic here so you don't know for a good reason and I honest to God don't know what
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I'm doing Yeah, well I sometimes whisper in my own ear so it's all good So I guess the heading of my first question and I'm so privileged and blessed to have been invited back onto your all's forum and with Open Air Theology and I truly am grateful for that One of a question that I feel the
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Lord may have impressed upon my heart has to do with ecclesiology and something that I think it's an theological truth as having been called out of darkness into light in Christ and more pointedly speaking into his church as one of his sheep
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I think my question has to do with the benefits or church ecclesiology church authority why, how, what does that look like for a sheep and furthermore my second question would be why is it important and how is a sheep or a new convert supposed to act?
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What are we supposed to do? We all know what the pastors are supposed to do and we're blessed with our pastors but what do we do as what's our goal?
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What's our job? How do we be good sheep? And so that would be my first question.
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Who do you want to ask that to? Everybody just open dialogue on that?
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Say Jeff. Me or Brayden?
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I'll do my best to answer it. I was just on I was just preaching through John chapter 21 verses
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I was in 12 through 17 that guy 12 through 17 and in there it's often known as the restoration of Peter the calling him back to his apostolic pastoral calling that he was meant to do after denying
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Christ three times he's told to tend, feed and tend the sheep three different times by Jesus.
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And so the first thing that comes to mind the reason that God has set up church authority in the way that he has is because he loves us.
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He says Peter do you love me? Tend my sheep. And so one way that God has blessed sheep is that he's set up under shepherds to care and tend for them.
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And so that is one reason that I would say that there's this church authority in the way that it has through pastors, teachers, and deacons and other ecclesiology setups like we would see in different denominations and so on and so forth is that they're set up to love tend and feed the sheep.
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And this is because we love God. And maybe I'll then pass it on to someone else, but maybe that I think that would be my first just go to because it was something
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I just preached on on Sunday. And so maybe I saw Jeff pointing to Haps so Haps what else would you say on that?
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Well, you know I believe that we all have a role in the church.
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I believe that the elders you know when they're engaged with their congregations and it's not just the pastors or the elders just showing up on Sunday, but when we're engaged in fellowship not only on the
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Lord's Day, but throughout the week in Bible studies or whatnot and we're building our relationships and a lot of times trust and everything.
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I believe a lot of our gifts the gifts start coming out and we know you know like one wants to serve, you know, awesome, you know, could you greet at the door, you know can and so I think that as we're being built up in the body of the in the church as the the older men are training the younger men as the older women are training the younger women we start to find our place and I think it's really it'll develop over time.
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Okay. Yeah, so I would if I can jump in here after picking on my brothers, my dear brothers whom
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I love and respect each and every one of you so I would say like to to work backwards
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I would say that you know for the new convert to be you know brought into the you know
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Christ has done a work in his life. He has heard the gospel. He has believed his faith is in Christ.
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He has received Christ by faith. He is a new creation. The old is gone. Behold all things are new but this is someone who is now a sin and saint.
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He is both a saint and sinner, right? What he needs to do is be connected, right?
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He needs to be at church. He needs to be under the Word of God, the authority of the
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Word of God. He needs to be around other sheep that are more advanced in their walk than he is.
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The fellowship, the communion of the saints. He needs to be partaking in the Lord's Supper. He needs to be partaking in these prayers.
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He needs to have people praying for him. He needs to hear prayer requests and pray for others.
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These are things that I think as a body that we're supposed to do. Most importantly, a new convert needs to be baptized.
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He needs to be under the Word of God. He needs to be partaking in the
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Lord's Supper. He needs to be fellowshiping. He needs to be involved with praying and being prayed for. He needs to be singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.
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He needs to be in that church life. Everything that takes place in that walk.
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Sheep need to be fed. He needs to be fed. He also needs good shepherds to feed him that has someone, whoever
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God's man whom God has given the authority to do these things needs to be someone.
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The church needs to be a biblical church. A church that is practicing these things that he needs. He needs a pastor, a shepherd, who does biblical exposition.
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Who teaches, who explains the teachings of the apostles. Who has the
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Lord's Supper. Who baptizes believers. Who prays for his people and one to whom that the people know that he can trust.
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When you look at Galatians, it talks about, like it starts naming off these sins that people committed.
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It says that these people will not inherit the kingdom of God. It says in such and so was some of you.
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Such was some of you. I believe that the church is the spiritual kingdom of God.
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It's a physical people, but the church is a spiritual kingdom that's filled with physical people.
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The idea is that you no longer identify yourself with these common sins of men.
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Like me, growing up at 14, I entered a gang.
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I got beaten to a gang. I was a gangbanger. When I became a
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Christian, I no longer identified myself as a gangbanger. I no longer identified myself as all these negative things in my life that I had in my life.
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I now identify myself with Christ. I am a Christian. Identity is important for both the believer and for the shepherd.
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If you look at the parables of the young man who ran away from his father, he got his father's inheritance and he ran away.
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The parable right after is the parable of the sheep. One sheep goes astray.
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The shepherd goes after that sheep. Then you have the parable of the woman who had 10 coins and she lost one.
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The idea here is at that time, this was speaking of identity.
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This woman who lost the 10 coins, at that time in Jewish history, women always had their identity was in their head covering.
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There was a head covering for prostitutes. There was a head covering for widows. There was a head covering for women who were taking different kind of head coverings.
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At this time, when a young lady was young, she would start receiving coins.
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Whenever she got 10 coins, she would wove them together into a hairpiece.
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This 10 coin hairpiece would let the gentleman know that she was eligible for marriage. This was her identity that she lost.
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If she couldn't find this 10th coin, she was never going to be able to wove it together to make a hairpiece to show that she is eligible for marriage.
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Then you have the shepherd that loses one of his sheep. He goes and he finds his sheep.
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The idea here, and I still believe this is practice, when the shepherd finds the sheep, he breaks the sheep's leg.
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The sheep no longer can walk. The shepherd would put the sheep on his shoulder and carry the sheep back to the flock.
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The whole time, the sheep is dependent upon the shepherd who's carrying the sheep. The whole time, all he can do is feel this heartbeat of the shepherd.
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It's said that once that shepherd puts the sheep down after its foot heals, that sheep does not run off.
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It doesn't leave his side, much less run off, because the sheep longs to hear the heartbeat of the shepherd.
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Then you have the one where the boy who squandered his inheritance.
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This is not talking about someone who was actually not a part of the family.
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This boy was a part of the family. He was the son of the father.
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The son of the father left. When the father saw him coming back to his identity, his family, the father welcomed him in open arms.
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Then you have the one to where the sheep left, but the shepherd, an image of that father, going to receive in his son.
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The woman who knew, the only way that my wife can progress anymore is I got to find that coin. A lot of this has to do with identity when we see in Scripture.
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The pastor's identity is to be the pastor of the church. If someone leaves, we need to go after them.
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Let's say they push us away. If they start coming back, bring the fattest calf.
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If there's something that he's struggling with, we help them find that. We help them find that coin.
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We have to be here for one another. I tell people this all the time. If I wake up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, which
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I do this quite often, and if you know me, I've got real bad vertigo. I've never met a door frame
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I haven't ran into. I've got calloused shoulders, right? Well, here's the thing.
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If I was to hit my pinky toe on something, my whole body, even my other pinky toe, is worried about the pinky toe.
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My hands grab my foot, I'm jumping up in the air. My whole body is focusing on the toe.
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Listen, that's how we have to be. Rejoice with those who are rejoicing and mourn with those who are mourning.
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This is the church. Let's stop playing. Yeah. I love that.
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I think that when it comes to newcomers and bringing them in and bringing them into the fold, it's just such a new experience.
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I think back to when I first was adopted into the family of God.
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There was no grace or mercy.
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It was very legalistic. If you messed up, then everybody knew about it.
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Nobody's coming after you. No one's looking. It was just like, I didn't see that in Scripture.
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I believe that. Plus, all three of those parables in Luke are some of my favorite parables right there because whenever I teach through that,
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I go through a series with those. The parable of the lost coin, the parable of the lost sheep, and the prodigal son.
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They were all his to begin with. They were all his to begin with.
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That belonged to them that they were looking for or that came back to them. Yep. Bring it,
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Hannes. Let's hear another question. I just watched a debate with Dr.
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White. This is funny. Dr. White was the moderator. That was interesting. I watched part of it.
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The debate was with two Mormons. That was good. Two Mormons and two seminary students that were deacons over at Apologia.
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Before, you know how Dr. White is a veteran debater and stuff like that. Just seeing him as the moderator, he goes, look, you guys have half the time to write these questions, but when you bring them up here, don't write the question from the position of you all are fools, and I should be the one debating.
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Right when I heard that, it humbled me. It gave me perspective on the blessing, the privilege that it is to be surrounded by such a great cloud of faithful men that have been being built up in Christ and serving the body for quite some time faithfully as obedient and so forth.
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I don't have, to answer your question, Pastor Rice, a question to try to knock you guys off your theological you know, confuse you guys.
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But I do want to know some things. I do want to know about maybe working and stuff like that.
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Okay, so now in Christ, I know I belong to Him, so forth. I belong to Jesus.
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He's showing me my depravity, having abandoned my family in the past, having chosen the idol over the truth for six years.
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Now I'm here. I'm in the fold. I'm walking in obedience to my shepherd.
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I'm getting the images. I'm getting the symbols. Christ is now teaching me.
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So now I have these desires. I want to go after my son. I would like him to maybe make up for the past.
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Am I trying to atone for my own sins? What about work?
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I owe the IRS thousands of dollars, school debt, child support, this type of stuff.
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Do I go and try to fix that stuff now? Do I look at that now as a proverbial broken leg like Jacob had his hip when he wrestled with God, it touched.
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He had to walk with a limp the rest of his life. Do I just be content?
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Or do I try to go out and now that I know that the Creator loves me because Christ, do
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I go out and try to fix those things? Or is that just stuff that I'm going to have to walk with for the rest of my life?
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Like, okay, too bad, so sad, you messed up, you've been a terrible sinner, and now you're new.
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That would be some more or less counseling that I would ask from you guys respectfully.
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Yeah, I would just say that as long as you're not trying to do these things to earn some favor with God, justification or sanctification wise, that these are good things to pursue.
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It's a good thing to pursue a relationship with your kids. It's a good thing to try to pay back society.
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There's nothing wrong with these things. As long as you're not trying to...
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If I don't do these things, I'm not a Christian, or don't think if I do these things,
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I'll be a better Christian. Okay. Because your Christianity, you being in Christ, is the work of Christ.
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Him living the life you could not live, and Him dying in your place as a perfect substitute to atone for your sins.
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Thank you. You know, I think that Pastor Habs would be the best one to answer you on this type of stuff, saying that he is your pastor, right?
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So I don't know all the ins and outs of the situations that you're talking about, but I think one of the reasons that that comes from your heart of wanting to establish those relationships and recover what was previously lost is because you see what you now have in Christ.
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You've been adopted, you've been forgiven, you've been reconciled, you've been made whole, and now you want to express that same thing that you have received unto the rest of the world.
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And I would say that that's a fruit of being a believer in God, is that immediately you will want those kind of things in your life.
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You'll want to seek that kind of stuff. And I always have to remind people that when we talk about fruit, because I've seen people pour their heart out in doing
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X, Y, and Z, whether it's a ministry thing, a personal thing, and it not turn out the way that they want it to.
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I have to remind people that giving God glory and doing these things is fruit in and of itself.
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If somebody doesn't believe after you've taught a Bible study to them for seven weeks or however long the example is,
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God wasn't drawing them, or whatever the example is, but the fruit was that you were putting time forward to share
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God's gospel with a person that does not believe, or whatever the example is. So you go to your son, and your son still rejects whatever is going on there, whatever the example is.
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The fact that you took a step outside of your front door is a fruit to God. It praises Him. It glorifies
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Him in doing those things. As long as what you're doing is like what Jeff said, you're not doing that for the merit of salvation.
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You're not doing that to merit good things from God. You're not doing that for those things. You're doing it because, once again, you love others because God has loved you.
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Yeah, right on. Thank you, Pastor. I think what it really comes down to is we bear much fruit with patience.
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It's really being patient and waiting upon the Lord and praying and getting counsel from your pastors, the elders of the church, and seeking direction.
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Whatever we do, in thought, word, and deed, we do it to glorify God. He's all about reconciliation.
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He's all about reconciliation. We always try to do these things in our time.
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Our ways aren't His ways. Our thoughts aren't His thoughts. When we really lean on His understanding and His ways,
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He'll direct our paths. He'll make it available. What am
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I going to do for work? How am I going to get my kid? What is to say?
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Don't worry about what you eat, what you drink, what you wear. First seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
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Then all these things will be added to you. Thank you so much.
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Thank you, Pastor. I got a question. I got a question. This ain't your question,
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Tyler. It's my question. This is my time to question you guys. What's your question, young man?
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I got a question. Look at this. Me and Hannes, we both got a question for Brayden.
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Yes. We're just like, we're all just stiff neck.
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I'm starting to lag right now. Sorry. I can't. We were wondering in the
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Mormon church, don't they have a book of covenants?
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They have the Doctrine and Covenants. What is their Doctrine and Covenants? Him and I, we've been talking about this today.
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It's your quad. You already know. You already know. The Doctrine and Covenants is essentially what they would say is, the
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Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Pride to them is historical documents.
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Things that took place far in the past, previous to Christ, and also during Christ's ministry in the
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Americas. They believe that Jesus Christ came to the United States. Nonsense. But the
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Doctrine and Covenants would be to them like Acts and the ministry of the
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Apostles were in the first generation. So, Doctrine and Covenants has to deal with what
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Joseph Smith said that he received as personal doctrine that was meant for the church. It has some experiences of him during jail time.
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As well as towards the later part of the book, some stuff from Brigham Young himself. It's comprised of 136 chapters.
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Let me open this guy up real fast. Yes. 137 chapters.
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Excuse me. 138 chapters. I want to say that at one point there was 139. I can't remember off the top of my head.
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But their view of Covenants is not even close to. It was really interesting.
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I was looking at Covenants on LDS .org the other day and just reading what they had to say with Covenants.
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I think I was getting asked a question about something with Mormon Covenantal stuff. I think it was you and Hannes asked me that over the phone chat.
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I was like, I want to go and look at LDS .org and see what their definition of Covenant stuff is.
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They just focus on nothing but Covenants of works. There was not a single mention made of a covenant of grace, something that Christ has done on our behalf.
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It was all through Covenants of works that were given. That's essentially what they would view as Covenants.
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This is a works -based salvation. That amazes me. Most cults always say that they're one of the lost tribes of Israel.
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It's absolutely amazing. It's all works. Works, works, works, works.
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We were just talking about it. I love it. Do the
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Mormons say that Jesus in America made a new covenant with Joseph Smith?
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Is there a section of an actual covenant being made? I'm trying to think about it. A lot of this stuff has slipped my mind and I praise
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God for it because that's taken a little while. Their belief is in John chapter 10 where he says,
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Other sheep I have and I also must gather. Which, speaking of Gentiles, they would say is speaking of Native Americans in the
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United States. Even some more liberal LDS people would say that he appeared to people in Asia, people in New Zealand, people all across the world that he kept on reappearing over and over and over again in different people groups.
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But just what's recorded in the Book of Mormon is that they appear to people in not the United States, in the
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Americas. That is where they got to see Jesus.
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Jesus was able to reveal himself to them and tell about what he had done in Jerusalem.
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That kind of stuff. I don't know off the top of my head if there is any mention of covenant per se, but that's their general belief is that Jesus Christ left the apostles, came to the
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Americas and set up his stuff over there and then departed. I got another question for you guys if you guys want.
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Bring them on, we got plenty of time. I actually really want to know because I'm trying to develop my own position.
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I started reading this 4 Views book on eschatology. It just seems like everybody
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I know... Who's that one guy that Jesus opened his eyes and he saw trees everywhere?
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Jesus healed the blind man. He healed the blind man. With this eschatology thing, everybody's trees and they have so much knowledge on all the pre -dispensation of the historic and the dispensational pre -millennial and post -millennialism and all that.
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I really want to know and be taught so I can have a framework of my own.
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I know it takes time and stuff, but it seems like you guys at least have a particular position and if not...
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Whichever way you go, just don't go all mill. I knew it was coming.
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I knew it was coming. I'm just playing. If someone else wants to tackle this,
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I'll interrupt in a minute or if y 'all want me to go on, it's fine. The way that I would say that Annis is that it will take you a hot minute to figure out what your specific view is and that specific view might change over time and I think that there does need to be a certain amount of grace that's extended to each one of the views.
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A certain amount of grace. There are some areas that each one of the views people would say that is crossing certain lines in their own theology and so that's important to recognize those areas as well.
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But to remember that eschatology, as long as we're not denying that Jesus Christ is not going to come again unto his bride and collect his bride and judge the wicked, that's the essential area of eschatology.
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Where I would say somebody is wrong and maybe even sinning and violating scripture, I would not necessarily put them outside of the camp of Christianity because they're not denying any other essential with what they're saying.
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It's not like they're denying the virgin birth, nor are they denying the death, burial, and resurrection, nor are they denying faith in Christ for salvation.
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All those kind of things that are essential to Christianity and being orthodox. Eschatology is truly a secondary issue that has some tertiary problems and also does affect the way that we do view some primaries as well, absolutely.
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And so, you know, I don't know how much more I need to get in, how much more you want from me because I can give you a brief summary of all four of the eschatology views if you'd like.
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Yeah, please. So, I would start out with saying what the most common one is today is dispensational premillennialism, and that came about in the 1800s, specifically dispensationalism.
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And that's truly the belief that after Revelation chapter 4, that everything on that point is future for us.
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So that, some would say that we're maybe in this chapter right now with where we're seeing things, but that stuff is future for us.
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That there's these future things that are happening in a very literal way, and they read the book of Revelation literally until they're forced to read it symbolically, right?
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And so that can change from person to person. But some of the biggest nuances with dispensational premillennialism is that they see a future hope for ethnic
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Israel being redeemed at the second coming of Christ, that they would also see that there's going to be a physical thousand -year millennial kingdom, as well as that they do see a distinction, a clear distinction between the church and Israel.
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So they would not say, they would say that the church started in Acts chapter 2, that there is no church prior to that.
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The church started in Acts chapter 2, whereas every other eschatology view would say that true
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Israel, spiritual Israel is the church, a group of believing people was found even back in the garden, and that's how we get it, that we just don't have the word church yet, right?
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And so then going on to what would be meant, I would say, as their brother, is historical premillennialism, and that's one of the earliest recorded eschatology views that we have with Justin the
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Martyr. And so in that view, they viewed that Israel and the church is truly the same thing, that true
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Israel is made up of believers, the church is made up of believers, and that they would also say that depending on the historical premillennialists that you're talking to, they can hold to different interpretive principles to the book of Revelation, but many of them are historicists, so they see certain events taking place in the book of Revelation as being past, current, and yet future.
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And so they could say, okay, well, back in the Reformation, this was that day, that was this day, and then when Hitler came, that fulfilled this prophecy, and this major event fulfilled this one, and now we're in Revelation 17, right?
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Something along those lines, but they still see it, a lot of times, as a linearal reading of the text. And then when you come to amillennialists, they once again see true
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Israel and the church being the same thing. And amillennialists read the book of Revelation as being most amillennialists, you can find some historical amillennialists, you can find some partial preterist amillennialists, but for the most part, you'll find idealist amillennialists, which view the book of Revelation as being theologically, metaphorically symbolic.
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I know that that's a lot of wording right there, but I say it for a reason, right? Because there's a sense of being too liberal in the text when we read it that way, and there is danger in those things, right?
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If we read a text too liberally, we can end up becoming a Jehovah Witness, and say that Jesus Christ never really physically rose from the grave, that He only spiritually did, right?
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Now we've crossed outside of the grounds of Orthodox, right? But they would look at stuff like, yeah, so they would just see a lot of that stuff having theological implications that are being used with literal visuals that John's seeing that have a spiritual, symbolic meaning to it.
36:07
And they would also see, usually an idealist would see that there's many recalculations of the same event that's taking place over and over and over and over again from different angles in the book of Revelation.
36:18
But amillennialists, that term is a really bad term, because amillennialists do believe in a literal millennial reign, but they don't believe in a literal thousand -year physical reign, that Christ is reigning right now, and that the devil was bound, curtailed, crushed, all these kind of things, restrained at the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and that He's still currently in that state, never being able to deceive the elect, but at the second coming of Christ, there'll be a time where the professing
36:48
Christian church, there'll be many that fall away, and Christ's coming will come, and there'll be a singular resurrection of both the wicked and the just, and there'll be a separation of the sheep and the goats, there'll be a judging of the good and the wicked, right?
37:02
And then when we come to the postmillennialists, postmillennialists share a lot of commonality with amillennialists, depending, most postmillennialists would be what's called partial predatorists, or predatorists, and they would see that the majority of the book of Revelation has been fulfilled in past fulfillment, right, that it took place, and most people would place that at the 70AD period, right?
37:25
And so postmillennialists, where I would say that a lot of the disagreement takes place between amillennialists and postmillennialists is the world at which
37:33
Christ will come back to. And so a lot of postmillennialists would say that the majority of the world will be,
37:39
I'll use the word Christianized, they'll be evangelized, the world will be different than what it is today, right?
37:45
So that could be hundreds of hundreds of years from now, but through the Great Commission, Christ is subduing the enemy, he's putting them under his feet, and over time, that will then mean that Christ will come back to a world that is different than what it is currently.
38:02
Whereas an amillennialist would say, well, no, we think that when Christ comes again, it's to a wicked world that's rejecting the
38:10
Christian. The postmillennialists would say, no, it's a world that would be singing the praise of Christ as he's coming here.
38:16
So the amillennialists say that Christ is going to come back to a gospel, or a wicked earth?
38:24
For the most part, yes. And there's definitely nuances with each one of these positions, and there's heretical points with each one of these positions.
38:34
There's heretics that are within each one of these positions too. And so you'll have some people that will do ad hominem attacks and try to undermine the other eschatology views by saying, oh, you know what?
38:47
This person I know is a heretic, and he holds to postmillennialism.
38:53
So all postmillennialism is wrong because he represented it in this way. And that happens often to each one of the eschatology views from a different eschatology view.
39:02
But the major one that you have today is dispensational premillennialism, which I would say is the new kid on the block.
39:09
But then premillennialism, which is now called historical premillennialism, I would say that that one, if I remember right, is the earliest eschatology that we have within church history.
39:21
Amillennialism is the most common one in the last 2 ,000 years, and postmillennialism was the most common one amongst reformers,
39:28
Puritans, or did I say reformers? Baptists and Puritans, if I remember right.
39:36
But there's highlights and downsides to each one of them, and it's going to take you a long time to understand the nuances with all of them.
39:43
I don't even know them all by any means, by any stretch of saying anything. Yeah, eschatology is definitely not something that you should depart fellowship over.
39:53
You can have, like I would say, it would be tough to have an elder run church, an elder -led church, and say if you had three elders and each one held to a different position.
40:07
I think that that would be tough in a way, but it's very common within a reformed church for there to be postmill, all mills, and historical premills, all fellowshiping together, loving one another, because it's not an issue to divide over.
40:24
I was very, very dispensational when I first became a Christian, and then as I was transitioning to historical premill,
40:33
I still found myself to be very much a dispy in some ways.
40:40
Dispy? Dispy, yeah. Dispy. I'm a pugh.
40:47
A dispy pugh. In transitioning, I jumped right over all mill.
40:55
Lava, lava. I don't know. It's really cool and nice of you to jump in,
41:00
Jeff. I went straight to postmill, but I didn't swallow everything hook, line, and sinker because I am anti theonomy, a theonomist, someone who's trying to reestablish the
41:14
Mosaic Law. I, you know, most postmill, modern -day postmill that believe what
41:22
I believe are very much theonomists, and I just believe that it is the, it is the
41:33
Judaizing of our day, but it's concerning sanctification instead of justification.
41:41
And so, I would definitely label myself more or less an optimistic partial preterist.
41:50
Like if I just, you know, because of the negativity that's taken place in postmillennialism right now, and I think the names are just terrible because each one, each name is given from a chapter that's found in Revelation.
42:08
The book of Revelation is the most symbolic book in the whole Bible, and Revelation chapter 20 is the most symbolic chapter in the most symbolic book in the whole
42:18
Bible. Listen, nothing, there is no clear answers in Revelation chapter 20. Okay?
42:24
And so, to name each position off of what they believe that takes place in Revelation chapter 20 is just asking for a bruising, right?
42:33
And that's why it's so confusing. That's why people are this, and then they switch over back to here, and they switch back over to here, because it is confusing.
42:42
And that's why we can't necessarily rank someone a heretic just because they hold to a different position within the historical context.
42:51
And so, I would definitely find myself right in the fence between all mill and post mill.
43:01
Because here's the deal. Here's the deal. My post mill friends make the kingdom too literal, like it's too earthly.
43:10
The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom that no one can see unless you're born again. But my all mill friends spiritualize everything.
43:22
It's like, man, stop it. Stop it, man. You're spiritualizing everything.
43:27
And so, the post mills make everything physical.
43:33
The all mills make everything spiritual. And I believe there's a happy medium there. I truly believe there's a happy medium there.
43:40
But again, we're doing so much fighting over. No one's listening to anyone.
43:47
Brayden, he's become one of my closest friends. And I pick on him. He picks on me.
43:53
But let me tell you something. If someone was coming against all millennialism, I would have his back and I would defend all millennialism right beside him.
44:03
And it would be an itch in my throat the whole time. But I love
44:08
Brayden. Our relationship is like post millennialism. It's getting better and better. It's getting better and better.
44:16
We'll be best friends for too long. So does post millennialism have, according to their perspective, has the kingdom, has the millennium has it already started?
44:29
And if it hasn't, when will it start? And how will we know it started? Well, there's different views on that.
44:35
So the historical post millennialism still believes that it's a long time away. I would take the all mill position because all mill and post mill, they used to be the same position.
44:47
I would say that the kingdom began when Christ crucifixion on the cross.
45:02
So when Christ was crucified, the covenant of grace was inaugurated. That is when the kingdom, this church age, whatever you want to call it, the kingdom of God, the thousand years, this millennial reign, that's when it began.
45:16
I don't believe that it's speaking of a literal thousand years. I don't believe it and there's certain spots in Revelation, which
45:27
I'll be teaching at the church before too long, there's certain spots of Revelation that I think, when it comes to numbers, is literal, where it doubles it in different ways.
45:36
Like it might say 42 months, or then it might say three and a half years. So if it says 42 months and three and a half years,
45:44
I think they're doubling it, and the Bible makes clear when it does that, from Genesis, Joseph interpreting a dream, when it does that, it means that this is sure to take place.
45:55
But when it doesn't double it, like it doesn't double the thousand years, I'm not so sure that it takes place like that, because the
46:01
Bible says that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Well, does he not own all the cattle on every hill?
46:07
Or it talks about a blessing, someone for a thousand generations.
46:13
Let's just look at that for one second. Forty, let's just say forty years is a generation, which that's what
46:19
I believe. One thousand times forty. Well, if you count that high, you have to be a post -millennialist.
46:27
Alright? Like, that's a long time. And so, you have to read the
46:33
Bible seriously. Every book seriously. But you can't take everything literally.
46:42
Okay? Satan is not going to be flying around a dragon with seven heads and ten horns and with seven diadems.
46:51
At that time, it's speaking about Rome coming up out of the sea, the beast, who had seven heads and ten horns with ten diadems.
47:00
Seven representing the number of the mountains. Rome was the city of seven hills. Ten horns representing ten kings, and the ten diadems representing the kingdoms that were underneath Rome.
47:15
And so, it's not all literal, but you better take it seriously. You better read it in the liturgy that's sitting in front of you.
47:25
So if it's hyperbole, you need to read it understanding that, but also understanding that what it's pointing to is a real reality.
47:33
Okay. Absolutely. I completely agree with that.
47:39
What do you got to say on that, Abs? Well, you know what? It was a journey for me because I grew up dispensational.
47:47
Well, my family did, and so I was always terrified at the fact that the seven -year tribulation, all that kind of stuff, the mark of the beast, don't take it, it's all bad.
48:00
But when I came to know Christ and everything, I thought that was the view and everything, and so it was a little confusing for me at first.
48:09
And then, you know, when you get into dispensationalism, you kind of go off into you got pre -trib, mid -trib, post -trib, you know, you go off into the mid -trib, and then it's like in between the seven -year tribulation,
48:25
Enoch and Moses are coming back, and it's just chaos, you know, and you go off into fantasy, which
48:33
I did. You know, I started studying Enoch and all this kind of stuff, and the book Enoch, and it really takes you off into all this, like, other directions, and so my actual landing in eschatology was in Ah Mil, and when
48:54
I studied Ah Mil, Well, no, no, no, no, no.
49:01
You should have landed there and stopped, Pap. No, keep on going. He might have crash -landed. No, but that's because I was, when
49:10
I was seeing stuff in Scripture, just what I'm hearing from people just wasn't adding up.
49:15
You know, I'm like, is it me? You know, is it me? Because I'm reading one thing, but as I was reading through, you know,
49:24
Revelation and going back to, you know, comparing Scripture with Scripture, I'm seeing this recapitulation, recapitulation, recapitulation.
49:33
I saw that. I saw that same story, and I could see where, you know, it's
49:39
Heaven's view and then the Earth view, and Heaven's view, and I heard 144 ,000, yet I saw a great multitude that no man can count.
49:49
I heard a lion, I saw a lamb, you know, and so that was really, really helping me out and everything, but but I really had
50:04
I, you know, all my friends were post -mill and I was like, well, I'm post -mill too, and I didn't even know what the hell
50:11
I was talking about. And then I got into post -mill and what came along with, and I saw it, man.
50:18
You know, like, I can see I can see I can see it from a mile away.
50:25
You know, I mean, it's just so obvious to me, but I had questions, and what I started noticing in each one of these eschatologies, there's holes.
50:34
There's holes in each one. You know, and I was like, but when it came to post -mill, everybody was going real towards this legalistic and it was really
50:45
I actually had to get counseling from Jeff and my brother Seth, because it just seemed like it was, you know, and I didn't know if that was just me, it seemed like just a lot of law, law, law, law, and but the way
51:05
I consider myself you know how I, you know what I teach you at the house, you know,
51:11
I'm like, hey man, I would learn them all. You know, I would learn them all, so I know how to fellowship with my brothers.
51:20
I know where I can, you know, see where they're, not just dismiss somebody right away, but really understand what they believe, and I think that me as post -millennial, well,
51:33
I consider myself historic post -millennial, you know, which is I know what you're saying, that's all millennial, but I do believe
51:44
Jesus said no, no, I do, it's hard, it's it's really hard,
51:50
I feel like I'm right in between, because Jesus did say, he has all authority in heaven and on earth, and on earth, so there's the spiritual and the physical, they both go hand in hand, but I don't believe that the whole world.
52:09
Here's the thought on the post -mill camp, here's the thought on the post -mill camp, post -mill, which again,
52:14
I would say that I'm a part of, I'm just, you know, there's some things that I'm working through, so I don't believe that the
52:22
Bible actually teaches that the whole world will be Christianized, I think that's where you're supposed to go. Yeah, that's what
52:27
I was just going to say. Because the goats and the sheep, he comes back and separates them, right? Well, it's not only that,
52:33
I mean, the resurrection of the dead is where that would take place, but it's the idea that the Bible never says that, but what it does say, is that so in Daniel, it speaks about the kingdom of God being a stone cut out by no human hand, and it comes at the time when the iron and the clay are mixed together.
52:51
So I would interpret this being first century Judaism, whenever you know,
52:59
Rome, and Rome being the iron, the Jews being the clay, but then you have the stone being Jesus, carved out by no human hand pointing to his incarnation, that he had no earthly father, and that this stone represents
53:11
Jesus and his kingdom, and that that stone lands on earth at that time, but it grows, that kingdom grows on the earth, so this is what makes me a post -mill, that that kingdom doesn't grow in heaven, it grows on earth, and it says that it covers the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.
53:29
And it also talks about the knowledge of the Lord will cover the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.
53:35
So I can foresee a time where every nation on earth, every island on earth will have
53:42
Christians. There will be churches. The knowledge of Jesus is there, but I don't see it teaching that the majority of people's views will be
53:54
Christian. I want to say what the text says and not try to carry it a step further when that step's not there.
54:03
I think that it, like when we go to that extreme, it's almost dominion theology, you know, like with the hypercharismatics and the seven mountain mandate, that's what they believe, you know, they believe that they're ushering in the king.
54:20
You know, that when the king comes back, that's what the hypercharismatics believe. Well, most charismatics, but I gotta say that the one fact for me was that when
54:33
I heard what Jesus said, when they were like, hey, when can we expect, I'm just paraphrasing, but when can we expect your kingdom to come?
54:39
And he's like, hey, someone's gonna say it's over there, or someone's gonna say it's gonna be over there, and he goes, but to you has been given the keys to the kingdom, for the kingdom of God is inside of you.
54:52
All right? So the kingdom of God is inside of you. It's not a physical nation.
54:57
Yeah. You can't see it unless you're born again. Because most dispensationalists and also going into Hebrew roots, a lot of them believe that the new
55:11
Jerusalem is the kingdom that's gonna fall out of the sky. Dispensationalists believe that too, you know?
55:20
And I'll interject real fast and say, you know, I think that a lot of the thinking that post -millennialists believe that the whole world will become
55:29
Christianized is coming from that theonomist camp. It is coming from that this whole world is going to be underneath this law that we find in the
55:39
Old Testament. And so I think that's where a lot of that comes from. Would you agree with that?
55:45
Yeah, and I would say that that's not exactly I would say that their view of how it happens would be different than mine.
55:55
Because I believe that it's gonna happen in a sense, in the way that I explained it, Totally.
56:01
The knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth. They just believe that it's gonna happen in a theonomic sense, meaning basically that the kingdom of God is gonna be a physical kingdom on earth.
56:15
They will establish the Mosaic law and then all nations will have to obey it.
56:21
I see it as I see it as this. A man preaches the gospel, somebody gets saved.
56:29
A man preaches the gospel, somebody else gets saved. And the kingdom of God expands.
56:36
Yeah, and the two people that get saved, they are under the teaching and authority of a local church. They end up start preaching the gospel and people are getting saved.
56:45
I think that the world will be Christianized in a sense, not everyone
56:50
Christian, but Christianized meaning that the church will be in honor of the Lord because of the work of Jesus.
56:55
All we're doing is we're telling another beggar where we got the bread. We're telling the message of Jesus Christ.
57:02
We're one beggar telling another beggar where we got the bread. This is what Christ Jesus has done for us. We cannot live and he's not the death that we should die.
57:09
Boom. It's not even faith. So your view of Christianizing the world would be that of there is
57:16
Christians all over the world. Is that a fair way of saying that you will go to the remotest part of the world and you will find
57:23
Christians? As an amillennialist that is very, very similar to what
57:29
I say with that stuff. That's why I'm riding the fence. I love it. I wanted to say this real quick to you.
57:37
When you were talking about the dispensational premillennialism, I want to be so clear on saying this. If Christ comes again tomorrow and I learn that I was wrong and that the dispensational premillennialists were right,
57:50
I'm going to feel terrible. I'm going to repent and feel bad about that. I highly don't think that's going to be the case because I've come to my own conclusion in the text.
58:00
That's where I was saying earlier, Hannes, there needs to be a certain amount of grace that is extended to other views with skeptical eyeglasses on,
58:08
Bibles open, reading what they're saying, hearing what they're saying, reading what God's word says on it and fall back on God's word on every single thing of that.
58:17
The reason I interrupted you guys though is because we do have a question in the comments. I don't know if you guys have seen that yet or not.
58:23
I haven't seen Matt asking a bunch of questions.
58:30
I'm sitting so far away from my computer. Do you want me to read that out loud, Jeff? Well, I see that he's asked several ones and I don't know which one to go with.
58:39
If you want to ask us one, go ahead. The first one that I saw in here that I was wanting to make sure to ask everybody is that he asks in here, this is
58:49
Mr. Highlander. He says, if the Bible is so clear about we will be lenders and not borrowers, this nature of society that is the golden standard, it would seem we work jobs to buy houses we can never pay for, our whole life is let in debt and yet the church still asks for money.
59:15
What do you guys think should be the stance of Bible believing Christians being in debt?
59:23
Well, first off, we're born in debt. That's a great point. We're born with a debt that we cannot pay.
59:29
Yeah. I'm trying to process the question. I feel like there was a bunch of questions in there.
59:37
There was a lot of stuff to tackle in that for sure. I may have to hear it again. I'm just a simple man.
59:46
Yeah, I know. What's your stance on Christians being in debt?
59:52
Money value wise. Alright, give me a second. I gotta take my medicine, my alarm went off.
59:59
For those that don't know, I struggle with migraines. I keep one in my back pocket. If I'm like four minutes late from taking my medicine, you know what?
01:00:09
Before we tackle that question, I just wanted to say one more thing about the different views.
01:00:16
Each one can go to the extreme. Each one has an extreme. That's why
01:00:23
I ride the fence when it comes to Post Mill and Awe Mill. I consider myself
01:00:29
Post Mill, but I'm a historic Post Mill. I'm like, right, because I don't think it's too spiritual on one hand, because I know
01:00:42
Awe Mill can go way, way far. And then Post Mill is just like it just goes la, la, la, la, la.
01:00:52
Rob Bell had a DVD at one time called Everything Spiritual. I saw that not long ago.
01:00:58
I was like, oh, Everything Spiritual, he must be in Awe Mill. There has to be a healthy balance,
01:01:05
I think. There does need to be a healthy balance. Is there a way that you can signify that, I mean simplify that question?
01:01:14
Well, do you want me to paint pictures up here, you interpret them, and there will be little symbols. What's your view on should
01:01:23
Christians be in a money value debt in the world, like buying houses, buying cars, that kind of debt?
01:01:31
That's a good question. You know, I think that you have to take the,
01:01:37
I don't know. Thank you, Brother Josh, I appreciate that. I could really use the prayer, man.
01:01:44
I struggle at least three days a week, man. I'm just crippled. So, I would say debt's not good, period.
01:01:56
But at the same time, we have a system, just like they had a system in, you know, in Jerusalem, you know, that you could sell yourself as a slave if you didn't have money.
01:02:12
But then, at Jubilee, you were free. I think that our nation can do a better job at helping us earn our freedom from debt, because there's things in this world that we have to have in order to succeed, in order to make it, in order to feed our family.
01:02:32
I run a Bible rebinding business, right?
01:02:37
And so I live off of the down payments people pay. And so when people give me a down payment for a
01:02:43
Bible, they are debted to me for that second half payment. And if they don't pay me,
01:02:50
I don't do the Bible. Alright, does that mean that people shouldn't, Christians shouldn't get
01:02:57
Bibles from me? So, I really think we just have to look at it and understand what's going on.
01:03:04
Of course, if they just could not, you know, like I really try to work with people if they contact me and stuff like that.
01:03:11
But at the same time, I think the biggest problem, which I addressed this with Happy beforehand,
01:03:19
I mean, when we first met, I think the biggest problem in the church right now is not debt. It's not anything that we see going on anywhere.
01:03:27
It's not the CTR, whatever you call it. It's not all these other things. It's loving one another.
01:03:33
Our biggest problem as Christians is our love for one another.
01:03:39
The very thing that Jesus said that the world will recognize us by, our love for one another. He doesn't tell us to wear yarmulkes.
01:03:45
He doesn't tell us to wear turbans. There's not a special garment that we're supposed to wear. The talik, the prayer shawl, we don't wear anything like that.
01:03:54
People will know us by our love for one another. I'm thinking, until we can get that right, man, what are we worrying about a house for?
01:04:03
First things first, in my opinion, as a church. I'm involved with planting a church.
01:04:11
The bank told us it's going to be well, it depends. Whenever you plant a church and you're looking to get a building, we don't have the money to ride out and buy a building.
01:04:22
We've been renting a little bitty building for $150 a week and we only get it for a certain amount of hours on the
01:04:30
Lord's Day. There's a lot that we cannot do to reach our community because we don't have a building.
01:04:37
If your church ain't bringing in any money, it takes five years for them to give you a loan.
01:04:43
If your church is doing fairly good, it takes three years.
01:04:49
We're coming up on our second year. Next year, we'll be able to purchase, well, the bank is going to loan us money.
01:04:58
According to that thought of being in debt, our church is going to be in debt to the bank.
01:05:04
Should we not try to purchase, to get a building, a plot of land and to build a building to where we can reach our community?
01:05:12
I think we should. Some people might go against that thought, but I think we should.
01:05:20
This one building, I have to go, I have to set up, I have to tear down. There's a lot that has to be done on a Sunday. By the time
01:05:26
I've done setting everything up, I really don't even feel like preaching. I get there before everybody does.
01:05:32
I'm the only one that lives close to it. I wake up at five, get there at six.
01:05:37
I have the sanctuary set up by eight. From eight to nine, I study my passage. They're rolling in at 915, 930.
01:05:45
I'm sometimes teaching at Sunday school, if no one else is. It's constant.
01:05:52
I don't get home until four o 'clock in the evening because I have to clean up, vacuum, put everything up.
01:05:58
It wears me out. I want a place where we can call our own. If that means that in order to reach our community, we're going to have to owe the bank money, personally,
01:06:09
I don't see anything wrong with it. If any of you gentlemen disagree, please have at it. I'm amazed that it's 150 a week.
01:06:17
You're lucky, dude. Remember that big building I had, Hannes? It's almost like two grand a month.
01:06:27
This building is not big. It's very, very small. We have a full meal after we have service.
01:06:35
Part of our service is having a full meal together. We have to tear down the sanctuary in order to have a meal.
01:06:43
We're constantly constructing and reconstructing to do what we do. I love it.
01:06:48
I think that's a really sensible and reasonable answer. Honestly, I really do. What do you guys say?
01:06:54
Do we have one more question that we can get from Hannes and then jump off? Because we're at an hour and six minutes, seven minutes right now.
01:07:02
Bring it on. Sorry, I just went, the cat jumped right by me.
01:07:08
I was like, whoa, you do breakfast? Is it Enoch? No, it's... That's my cat's name is
01:07:15
Enoch. Oh, okay. I was thinking that you're talking about a second witness right there. No, no, no. The guy's clarifying.
01:07:23
He says, my point is more or less is that we worship money more than we worship
01:07:29
God. Well, not me. My church doesn't even pay me. I don't get any...
01:07:36
The church gives me $100 a month for evangelism. I work two full -time jobs basically.
01:07:46
Buying Bibles. Trust me, I give more Bibles away which I don't advertise what
01:07:53
I do. Money does not have a grip on me. I'll be honest with you.
01:07:59
I wished I had lots of money. I wish I had buttloads of money. There's a lot that I'd love to do because money has never had a grip on me.
01:08:07
I'm from the trailer park. My dream, listen, pay attention, is to own my own trailer park.
01:08:14
Okay? Is that too much to ask? That's awesome. I love it.
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That's my dream. I don't have anything big planned. I want to own my own trailer park.
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I want to pastor a church and own my own trailer park. Is that too much to ask? Does that mean I love it? Let's hear it.
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So, can you all flesh out the difference between justification and sanctification?
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That would be good. Justification and is justification experiential or is it
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I guess theological or ontological? Is it something that happens in reality apart from us or is it something that we feel?
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It changes the heart. Something we feel subjectively and are we changed into a justified person that does justifiable deeds and stuff like that?
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I'm literally stealing the ideas from Dr. White You're reading too many books. You're over here talking about Dr.
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White. He's over here texting me. I'm schizophrenic so when I read I don't hear voices so I do read a lot.
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There you go. Is there a way that we can break this down in three ways or should we just all give a stab at it?
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I say we all give a stab at it. I'm going to let you guys give a stab at it because I'm I can't even think right now.
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I've been up since three so I'm a little tired. I'm getting ready to fall asleep any second.
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I can log off too. I can ask my pastor tomorrow or something like that.
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I don't care about that. I'm tired right now. I'm quite wiped out too. If you two want to take it, go ahead.
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How about Hannes, Braden, either you take the active obedience or the passive obedience and I'll take the one that you don't take.
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You take justification and I'll take sanctification or vice versa. I'm trying to think of the best way to do that.
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Maybe you start out with justification and I'll take sanctification. How about that?
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Justification is basically basically I'm going to give you from one portion of scripture an idea of the earthly and the heavenly.
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I'm going to go to Romans chapter 5. I know
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I've probably addressed this before on here in a way but I don't think you can press this issue enough.
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Romans chapter 5 verse 1 says, Therefore, since we have been justified how? By faith we have peace with God through our
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Lord Jesus Christ. So what we're seeing here is what's taking place earthly, right?
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We have been justified by faith, our faith. But we know from Ephesians chapter 2 that faith is the gift for by grace you are saved through faith and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God.
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The gift of God, the nearest sense is ceded to this is not of your own doing, is faith.
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Faith is not of your own doing. Faith is the gift of God. And so what we have here is a term of peace.
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God's terms of peace is faith. And you say, well what makes you think that that's his terms of peace?
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Well if you look right down here at verse 9 it says, Since therefore, having been justified by his blood, so right here you're going to see the heavenly take place.
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The blood is the heavenly. By his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
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So the wrath of God abides upon all people. Why? Because we have fallen in Adam.
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Not only that, but we live a life sinning and rebellion. Alright? We hear the gospel to those who
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God gives the gift of faith. Faith comes by hearing, hearing of the word, the message of Christ.
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We are justified. How? The terms of agreement?
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By faith that's given to us. Well, actually it's what's taken place in heaven and that would be what
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Christ entered into the heavenly sanctuary with. His own blood. Since therefore we have been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by the wrath, saved by him from the wrath.
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Verse 10 kind of answers verse 9. For while we were enemies with God, enemies, we need peace, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son.
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The death of his son is how we are justified. When we have faith in him we are reckoned with that justification.
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Alright, now let's read that again. Verse 10. So while we were enemies with God, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more shall we be reconciled,
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I mean much more now that we are reconciled shall we be saved by his life.
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So this is pointing to the act of obedience of Christ. So Jesus, so if you can just picture his, because of his death, because of his sacrifice he atoned for our sins, he died for us, alright, that death is how we are justified.
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When we put our faith in him but the life that he lives saves us from the wrath of God.
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You cannot have one without the other. It can lead in, I can carry this into sanctification but I'm not going to,
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I'm going to let my brother do that. But can I ask you a question about what you're saying? Okay, so what
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I'm hearing is by his death, his blood, his actual death, we're justified.
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That is our sins and our past and I don't know about future yet but what
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I'm hearing you say is that by his act of obedience applied to us that's sanctification.
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That's us now walking in new life or is that still talking about justification?
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That's where I'm confused. Alright, well, the same gospel that saves you is the same gospel that sustains you.
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I know that these brothers would agree. his justification, because you cannot, like if I just say
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Christ died for our sins, all that does, and I was explaining this earlier, all that does is put us back in the garden.
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So if all he did was die for our sins, that's why I don't think the argument like, you know, the Calvinism, Arminianism, limited atonement argument, did
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Christ die for the sins of everyone? As someone who hosts the
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Doctrines of Grace, I really don't think that that's the question. Because if you do say that Christ died for everyone,
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I don't have to make my argument there because I would say, okay, well, if he did then all that does is make us like it puts us on level ground.
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We're back where Adam was in the garden. Jesus tells the people in the
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Gospels when he forgives their sins, he says, now go and sin no more. Their sins are forgiven, but go and sin no more.
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Meaning you have to be perfect. Listen, you cannot be that perfect. Okay? It's not in you.
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So in order, so right here we are justified by his death, but it also says that we are saved by his life.
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So it's the life that he lives that's credited to us. His death is not credited to us.
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He died the death that we should die. The life that he lived is credited on our account.
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It is as if we lived his life because of the act of impassive obedience. Justification is a passive, it's passively added to us.
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He lived the life we could not live. He died the death that we should die. The terms of agreements in order to have peace with God is to have faith in what he did.
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And that faith is not of yourself. Okay. Good for me to tackle sanctification real quickly as fast as I can.
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So Jeff read from Ephesians and so I would just piggyback right off that verses that he read from from Ephesians chapter 2 verses 8 through 9.
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I would, let me read those again for us just one more time and then we'll jump into verse 10. But it says, for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not as a result of works but that no one, that no one should boast for, so, so let me pause here before I read verse 10.
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Colts, false religions, non -Christians will blur and destroy the line in the sand that's the difference between justification and sanctification.
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They'll say that the works of the person are mandatory for justification. They will want to combine justification to that of sanctification.
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And so in verse 10, when we talk about being sovereignly saved, in verse 10 it says, we, so speaking of us, are his, speaking of God, his workmanship, so something that he has done, created in Christ Jesus, so we're created in Jesus for good works, so that that's things that we are doing, which
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God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. And so sanctify, sanctification, that word itself means being set apart for a holy use, which is a process for us.
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And so in 1 Corinthians chapter 1, verse 30 it says, but by, well let me back up a little bit, verse 28, trying to think here, let's just read verse 27 because I like verse 27.
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It says, but God has chosen the foolish things of this world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of this world to shame the things which are strong, which is a great reminder to humble anybody that thinks that they were saved for any specific reason.
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Verse 28 it says, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen the things that are not that he might nullify the things that are, that no man should boast before God, but by his doing you are in Christ Jesus.
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So this is once again God's doing that you're justified. And then continue on, it says, who became to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, that just as it is written, let him who boasts, boast in the
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Lord. So I would mimic what Jeff said and say amen to it, that the same gospel that has saved us is the same gospel that sustains us since we are in Christ Jesus, we've been set aside for a holy you, sanctified in that way, we are being sanctified in that way.
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And that example of us, the thing that keeps us saved is the life of Christ, right? The life that has been imputed in me, that's my sanctification.
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But since now I'm in him, I've been set aside for a holy use to follow after him in those same exact ways.
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And so therefore I should honor God, I should love God, I should, all these kind of things.
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And once again that process that I think that I'm going to be doing, that I hope
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I am doing, has been planned beforehand by God that I should walk in them.
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And so justification, sanctification once again are still within the sovereign hand of God, but we need to remember that justification is a salvation thing whereas sanctification is a post -salvation walk with God.
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He doesn't put the horse before the cart. Yes. I mean the cart before the horse. Cart before the car.
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I don't know. He doesn't put the steering wheel on the headlights. That's right. Yeah, so he's not sanctifying someone he hasn't justified.
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Yep. Repentance, you know, a lot of religions talk about repentance, but Christian repentance and Christian faith is different than any other thing.
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And maybe we can jump into that at another time. Yeah. Well, we're an hour and twenty -one minutes strong.
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I'm sure you gentlemen are tired of seeing my ugly mug. I know
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Haps is. I'm exhausted right now. From seeing Jess' ugly mug,
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I know what you mean. I see his ugly mug every day. Hey, you know what,
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I really enjoy having Hannes on here. You know, thank you so much for coming on. Oh, thank you.
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I'm thinking about buying you a mic and some headphones and stuff. That'd be awesome. Yeah, I wouldn't know what
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I was doing. Just have fun, man. Glorify God.
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Glorify God, man. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right. Well, any last words, gentlemen?
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Thank you, guys. Haps says glorify
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God and enjoy him forever. I'm so tired. All right.
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I got the music. All right. Well, we love y 'all.
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We thank y 'all for tuning in and we just pray that the Lord blesses you through this, that he uses it to say, hey, keep that music going, brother.
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I'll freestyle into it. The Lord bless you and keep you and he make you a space to shine upon you and that you tune in next week.
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I don't know what we're going to be discussing yet, but we'll figure something out and post it later. Hallelujah.