We Sin, We Suffer, We Die... Where's the Good News?

The times when I am most encouraged and gripped and moved by the hope of heaven and the return of Jesus is when

I am faced with either the reality something has happened, or I am gripped by fearful, harrowing, haunting thoughts of the people

I love the most dying. When I think about whether it's my parents or my wife or my kids and something happening to them, or I mean even honestly,

Mackenzie or you. It's just like when those thoughts haunt you, there's something about them.

It's terrible on the one hand, and on the other hand, it's like, all right, I'm faced with a decision here. What do

I believe about life after the grave? I mean, eternity has been written in a man's heart.

Now it's been done in such a way where man cannot know what God has done from the beginning to the end, but it has been written in our hearts. That's undeniable,

I think, for all people, but as Christians, what do we believe? In those moments,

I'm thankful that the Lord is so gracious because in spite of any instinct that I would ever have, like other humans might, to just distract and flee from it.

In those moments, I think I am most inclined to lean into the words of Christ. You cited

Peter and I can't remember what else, Colossians? For me, the two of the verses, well three passages, they're all in John's gospel for me.

When I'm faced with these things, I mean one may be obvious is in John 11 where Jesus is around the death of Lazarus and Martha and Mary.

They're mourning and they're weeping, and His word is just that I'm the resurrection and the life.

I don't know everything, and my faith is often weak, but I believe that. Then John 14, you know that I've gone to prepare a place for you.

It's where I'm going to go, and I wouldn't tell you that that was the case if it wasn't true. It's like Jesus, I believe you, and you say that you're going to come and you're going to bring me to be with you where you are.

It's like I trust that. I know we're going to cry. John 17, 24, you know that Jesus is praying to the

Father that we would be with Him where He is so that we could behold

His glory that was given to Him before the foundation of the world. The Father hears that prayer, and it's like, yeah,

I trust Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to deliver on this thing. My faith is weak.

I doubt a lot, but at the end of the day, where else are we going to go? You have the words of eternal life.

Sorry to be so emotional about it. You're good. It's good. Hey, guys. Today is a special episode of Theocast.

We've been doing this for a few years now, and what we've done for today's show is pull together some of our best material on suffering and the reality of pain and difficulty in this fallen world and try to answer the question, where is

Jesus in all of that? Where is the good news? Is there any hope for me? Is there any hope for us when everything around our souls are giving way?

Theocast is hosted by John Moffitt, who is pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee, and I'm Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina.

If somebody has shared this with you, if you're new to Theocast, welcome. We're glad you're here. We hope you're encouraged by the content today.

If you want to learn more about us, you can figure out anything you're going to need to know really over at theocast .org. That's our website.

There's also a free ebook for you on rest, which you might need after listening to a podcast on suffering.

We hope all of this is a blessing and a help to you. Stay tuned. I'll say this.

This is super dark, but I'm going to say it anyways. If I were to die at the same age my father passed away,

I have seven years left. Seven. He's been gone for 21 years now. There's something morbid, but yet very realistic about the experience of my life from now till then.

Right. You know, bro, in a similar way, I think my parents are aging and I think about the ages at which all my grandparents died.

That's right. And I do the math on a regular basis. That's right. Of, well, if my mom or my dad died at this age, that my grandmother or my grandfather died, then this is how many years we got left, et cetera.

I mean, this is how we live, right? Yeah. Yeah. And death is, sometimes people want to treat death as something we celebrate.

Jesus didn't. No. He wept over it. Exactly. Death is sorrowful.

Now, to be clear, Paul says, we don't, we don't weep.

Right. And there's a sense in which death for the Christian, it's needed because we're actually going to be set free.

We'll no longer be dragging the corpse of the old nature around. That's why we still need to die. So there is a sense in which death for the believer is not to be feared.

And yet, because it is this ripping apart of the physical and then the spiritual pieces of who we are as humans, it's a harrowing thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's a, as there's even a command from Paul, it says, weep with those who are weeping.

Right. Yeah. Romans says not, not only does the creation mourn, but we mourn, we grow inwardly.

Yeah. It groans and we do too. Yeah. So I think that there's not intended to have this in this podcast, but I'll mention it now.

There is, there's a secret theology of glory that comes in and it, and it destroys those who are suffering.

Let me put it this way. If, if you've ever, you've ever been in deep, deep, dark bouts of grief, when you're around people a lot, they don't like it.

And so they'll, they'll still say things that think will wipe the grief away.

Yeah. You know, think about heaven or think about, you know, they're not suffering anymore or you know, whatever it is that they'll, they'll try and kind of give a little bit of an antidote or they'll tell you, you should be over this by now as if somehow grief has a time limit to it.

Brother, it's as sudden as laughter. It just comes upon you. That's right. You know? Yeah. When I, when I describe grief to people, grief is living with a constant limp.

Yeah. You know, it's like losing a part of who you are. It's like when people have a limb amputated, it's a phantom pain.

Yeah. It's like, yeah, you no longer have your arm, but you feel as though you do and it hurts. Yeah. And being able to sit down and look someone in the eyes and says,

I do not understand your pain, but I am willing to grieve with you. Yeah. There is an instant sense of comfort of not being alone.

Most people who grieve, they suffer alone because for whatever reason in our culture, we want to move back into pleasure.

Yeah. And we want to move back into not living in reality because reality causes us to force, it forces us to deal with death and no one wants to think about death.

Yeah. I have so many thoughts in my mind. I mean, even if it's just, and I'll just say this now, like Israel was forced to live amongst death, the sacrificial system.

Our culture barely even sees death's body anymore. Sure. And of course the sacrificial system and the death that was perpetually around Israel is teaching them, this is what the wages of sin is.

Right. Right. And in order to atone for sin and, but that's applicable in this conversation because all of the suffering and the pain and the fact that this world is not our home is a result of the curse and it's a result of what sin has done.

Therefore we need to be delivered from this. Right. Right. And Christ needs to return to make all things okay.

Yeah. He comes to make his blessings flow like joy to the world, right? About his second advent. That's right.

No more let sins and sorrows grow nor thorns infest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found.

Right. That's what we are hoping for and longing for. That's right. You know, you're talking about how people,

I trust that people mean well in some senses and I think you hit on something that's also true. We're all selfish.

Yeah. And to be around people who are grieving and heartbroken is uncomfortable.

Yeah. And so a lot of times it's self -serving in the ways that we say these things that it's like, oh, well, you know, like in a better place or whatever.

And so in some senses, good intentions in some senses, self -serving motivations, well, welcome to the paradox that there's always a mixture in what we do.

But don't you feel better when I send my thoughts your direction? Seriously. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm appreciative of your thoughts. I quote it all the time.

C .S. Lewis, he wrote a book when his wife died called

A Grief Observed. That's right. Now he didn't even write it under his own name at the time because he was so concerned about what it would do to the faith of people who had read many of his other works.

That's right. Because it's very raw. Right. And he has a quote in there that is very it's excellent.

He says, talk to me about the truth of religion and I'll listen gladly. Talk to me about the duty of religion and I'll listen submissively.

But don't come talking to me about the consolation of religion or I will know that you do not understand.

And even in the conversation we're having today about the hope of heaven and the hope of Christ's return.

We are not for one second saying that it just takes the pain away. No. But it does give you a filter to push the pain through.

One of our elders who was in Afghanistan during the help me on Andrew.

What was it? It was the Gulf War. Thank you. And so Gulf War, wrong location.

But he said when they were there, they were given zero timelines of how long they would be there to serve.

And it created despair in the soldiers because they didn't there was no end in sight to the pain and to the suffering and to being away from their families.

You and I are both away from our homes and we know what tomorrow brings. Right. Reunion, restoration and rest with our what brings comfort to us in our homes.

And it's interesting how the scriptures encourages that. Yeah. Like there is a limit to the suffering and what comes is not supposed to be mysterious in its full form.

It is actually something to long for. I mean, even Peter talks about set your hope fully on the grace that is to come or Colossians.

You know, when it says that we are looking where upwards, we're looking towards Christ where he is seated.

That's where we're setting our hope fully up into the heavens. Right. Or the new heavens and the new earth. And we do know that there's a time limit to suffering because there's a there's a death date waiting for us.

And so when Jesus comes to his disciples warning them about what they are to face, he says, look, don't don't put your treasures here.

Yeah. Because they will absolutely destroy you. Where does he say, put your treasures in a place where the hope is and where nothing's going to destroy that.

That's right. We tend to hope in this world too much. And that's very easy, in particular for American Christians, where we're thankful,

John, I mean, we were saying this, we're thankful for common grace. And there's a sense in which, you know, even kind of living in this

Ecclesiastes moment, right, that it's a good thing for us to enjoy the work of our hands and to enjoy good food and good drink and good friends and loved ones, because this is good for man.

And yet Solomon says it's better to go to the house of mourning than it is the house of feasting.

Right. Why is that? Well, I mean, it could be put this way. You know, we live in a world where we bury our children and only an insane person would look around at this and say, this is as it should be.

Right. Yeah. We all feel that we do. Right. And so why is it better to go to a house of mourning?

Again, we're not trying to be dark in this. It's actually it's isn't it interesting how in having a conversation about the hope of heaven and the hope of Christ's return, you cannot help but have the really dark conversation about this world.

Because everything is turned upside down. Right. When we're thinking about suffering, our

Father, there's so many verses that warn us about this, that this is going to be a part of our experience.

And the fact that our God wrote that to us should be a comfort in Him saying, I'm not this.

I don't want you to be surprised by the experience of your life. I'm going to go ahead and like there's there's

I use this illustration recently where if you know you're going to be without power for 10 days. Like and you find out the moment the power goes off versus I give you a week to prepare for it, which one would you rather have?

Right. It's like you're going to you're going to endure those 10 days a lot better if you knew it was coming because you had time to prepare for it.

And this is what our God is doing. He's saying, I'm preparing you for your trials. I'm preparing you for your suffering.

I know they're there. I use them. It's not in vain. Your suffering is not in vain.

It is not without purpose. There is purpose behind all that is here. And that can be really hard to see depending on what the suffering is.

There's there's some there's a lot of pain and sorrow. I mentioned this verse in a sermon recently.

I just want to read it. It's first Corinthians 15 53 and following it says for this perishable body must put on the imperishable and this mortal body must put on immortality when the perishable puts on the imperishable and the mortal puts on the immortal then shall come to pass the saying that it is written.

So it's like this is the day we're looking forward to. It's like the day we are taking off this body that suffers and we put on a body that never suffers.

Right. Death is swallowed up in victory. Oh, death, where is your victory?

Oh, death, where is your sting? The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. I think he is.

He's talking about the sting that we feel in the suffering of our flesh. And it could be the result of sin.

It could just be the result of the fall. Doesn't matter. It's all the same. Yeah. And then I love this. He says, therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable in what?

Be steadfast, immovable in the faith of Christ. Right. Always. And then there's this always abounding in the work of the

Lord. So we are we are staying true to our faith. We're not going to remove ourselves from Christ and we're going to keep working.

And I love this. He says, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord, your labor is not in vain.

It's not worthless. It's not going to return void. Yeah. You know, we this past weekend at the conference, we were reflecting on various things and, you know,

Chad made some comments and then we ended up talking about this a little bit that, you know, Adam and Eve were born into a world without caskets.

But that we are born into a world where sometimes the caskets are three feet long.

Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's part of that. When I hear

First Corinthians fifth, like the sting of death. I mean, that's part of what we're talking about is is that I want to kick kick off some of my comments here with the very end of Exodus chapter two.

These words are pretty, pretty remarkable for the context here is that. You know, the people of Israel are in Egypt.

Joseph has died. That whole generation has died. There's a new Pharaoh in the land and he feels threatened by how numerous the people of Israel are.

And so he's going to he's got he comes up with several plans to try to effectively stomp them out. And the more they're persecuted, the more they prosper.

God's going to raise up a deliverer. Right. He's raising up Moses. And that's that's what's going on in the first couple of chapters.

But during the 40 years that Moses lives in Midian, this these three verses are are pretty gripping.

So this is Exodus 2, 23 to 25. During those many days, the king of Egypt died. And the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help.

Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God. And God heard their groaning.

And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. God saw the people of Israel and God knew.

Those are remarkable, like that their cry comes up to him. He hears their groanings.

He remembers his covenant. And I mean, for us, we can talk about how the Lord has remembered his covenant of redemption, the plan he's made to save us, that he's remembered his covenant of grace, where he's going to give us all of the merits of the

Savior by faith. And so because God has remembered his covenant, Jesus went to the cross. I mean, we could talk about all of that and rejoice over that.

Yeah, man, because God has remembered us all as well. When God remembers, it's not that he's calling something to mind that he forgot or it's like, hey,

I wasn't really thinking about this and now I'm thinking about it. It's that he's going to act to bring his promises to fruition.

And so because God remembers us all as well. But then let's not miss this other part where God saw and God knew.

So in thinking about even the way Jesus comforts his disciples and thereby comforts us like that last night that he's on earth, the words of comfort are fantastic.

And lest we ever think that he's apathetic, there are other words in the scriptures to help us.

And then Revelation 21, John says, I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth has passed away.

And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, behold, the dwelling place of God is with man.

He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

There that is again. And death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning nor crying or pain anymore for the former things have passed away.

And he who was seated on the throne said, behold, I'm making all things new. And also he said, write this down for these words are trustworthy and true.

And I think so often in the Christian world with the best of intentions, we want to try to read through the lines of providence and we want to try to determine exactly what the

Lord is doing. We want to use the Bible to interpret all of our circumstances and all of our suffering and all of our pain.

And friend, that is not why it was given. It was not given so that you can understand exactly why you have that diagnosis.

It is not given so that you would understand exactly why you feel the way that you do in your body for the last six weeks or the last six years.

It's not given so that you would understand why it is that you buried your child last year. You know, it's given to ground the verities of your soul in the midst of all of that difficulty and pain in this life under the sun.

So we're not called to understand. We're called to believe. We're called to trust. We're called to hope because the

Lord is faithful and because Jesus has us and we belong to him. Does it take the pain away?

No. But is it a help in the midst of trouble? Yes. Yeah. Amen.

Well, I think knowing that for 2000 years plus, well, as long as there's been a broken world, that suffering has been the norm.

And at times we are convinced that suffering is the abnormal and it really isn't. Suffering is the normal.

I mean, this is why I think Peter writes to the church and says, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced now, in particular in this church, they are dealing with hardship according to their faith, but also hardship according to their circumstances.

They're living on the outskirts of town and it's been frustrating and hard and speaks to this.

In the second letter, they're dealing with immense amount of spiritual warfare, a lot of suffering in that area.

But it's the anxieties and the frailties.

He's saying, look, you're not the only one who is suffering. And Justin, we don't, we haven't done this probably in a while or even

I don't even have to think about if we've ever done something on the prosperity gospel, but the prosperity gospel, the theology of glory is that we'll sneak in and those who have faith and really trust the

Lord have successful, providentially good lives. And that's the benefit and blessings of the

Lord versus those who have lesser faith or disobedience. And listen, I would agree that sin leads to a harder life.

That's just part of scripture period. You reap what you sow as a general principle. Yeah, absolutely.

You're me, you're going to have responses to that. But what about the person who truly is resisting the best they can their sin and they are walking by faith and yet they are struggling with anxiety, right?

They're struggling with the constant sense of depression. They can't seem to fix their health issues. It's like this is constant struggle that they face.

And that's where I think it's so heartwarming from Peter to go, Hey, just so you know, other Christians around the world are suffering too.

And they have to put their anxiety and they have to watch their hearts and they, and they too have to trust in the gospel.

And by the way, Peter's writing to churches here. He's not writing to individuals. So he's telling the churches, Hey, just so you know, you collectively together, resist him, trust in him, cast your anxieties upon him.

And to the, to the listener that's out there that you've on your, you feel like you've been this either entered into this stage or you've been in a lifelong battle and suffering with something, there's something wrong with you.

You're right. There is something wrong with you. That's why we long for the hope of his return so that he makes all things new.

The promise is to come. He's restored your faith. He has captured your soul and he will restore your body when he returns.

And it's healthy to remember we are not home yet. No, we're not.

And in the midst of the pilgrimage that is this life between here and home, our eternal homeland, that heavenly country, there will be pain and weakness and suffering.

We live in an Ecclesiastes world. And it's, I'm going to draw maybe a few final thoughts.

They're not all related. I'll just try to popcorn them around. And then John, you can close us down.

Living in an Ecclesiastes world, it really is important to walk with other people who understand that that's true. Who, so sometimes you read

Ecclesiastes and people don't know what to do with it. Cause it's like, this ain't how good Christian folks should talk.

You know, this is, this ain't okay. But Solomon doesn't make for a great modern wonderful book, brother.

I can't, I can't wait to preach Ecclesiastes personally. Part of that is because of how I'm wired, because let's be real for a moment.

You look around and you assess the landscape and it's like, this is not how things should be.

We all know there are too many terrible things. There are wonderful things in the world. And there are too many terrible things, vanity, right?

The vanity that he talks about all the time and pain and suffering and burying people we love and all that and sickness and disease and fearful stuff.

There's too much of that for us to look around and think, yeah, this is how things should be. And so Solomon writes that way.

Hey guys, this is how things are. And it's important to be able to walk with people who get that, but not in a way that is just despondent and giving oneself over to cynicism and meaninglessness.

No, you walk in the midst of life under the sun where there's weakness and pain and suffering, but you know that God and truth remain and that Christ is a

Savior and that we belong to him. It's important to walk with people who share that understanding.

Because I think a lot of times, here's our tendency. When we go through really difficult things, we feel alone.

And I don't just mean at a human level, though that can be true. We also feel like God's not near.

He feels distant. Where is God in this? And the Psalms say that very well. Where is God? Where is God in this?

And we struggle to know his presence, to know his love, to know his nearness. And so oftentimes we get most afraid, at least

I do, when either I look back on my life and I think this is true. And even in recent weeks, I think this is true.

In your bad moments, God's not in it. He's just not there.

And so we need people around us too. And we need to remind ourselves that God is always near and that he always loves and that he does not delight in our suffering.

Now, has he ordained all things? Yes. But there are all kinds of means and agencies and there are all kinds of things that happen in this world.

The Lord does not delight in our suffering. He sees it and he knows it. He's compassionate toward us in it.

And he says, bring it to me, lay it on me, and child, I have you. Say that to yourself, but you need people around you who say that to you too.

And that's not platitude nonsense. That's the only hope we've got. Guys, think about the long -term gain.

God may not give you the opportunity to give the gospel right then, so don't blow it for the next guy. Don't be the Christian jerk. We were recently hanging out with a couple of church members after church on a

Sunday night, and it's an outdoor cigar lounge. And I was petting this dog and the owner comes over and we start talking.

He's a cowboy and then his friend comes. Long story short, I ended up talking with this guy and we're talking about shoes.

And then we started talking about basketball. And before I know it, I'm sharing the gospel with him because he finally asked me, what do you do for a living?

Guy's been away from his faith for five years. And it was just one of those things where I was just being nice to a dog, then a nice to the guy and just being friendly.

And you're like, oh, you're in a cigar lounge, whatever. I'm not going to go there. But Justin, there is an essence where I think there is an urgency where we continually preach the gospel, encourage people.

But I think it's profound in Scripture how supernatural the love of a believer is to the unbeliever.

We just don't think about, like literally you guys, I mean, this is the part of the Bible that I'm looking forward for helping people understand.

We don't talk about the power of the spirit. We need to. Do you realize that Paul says God's spirit lives in you?

You are his temple. That means when you love someone, they are experiencing the love of God through you and that God can use that to draw them to yourself, to himself, through your actions.

So you can open up your mouth and give them the living word. But it might start with love, compassion.

And this is kind of what I think that he gets us and what we're trying to get at. And I think what Alistair is getting at is that to show compassion is part of the evangelism, is part of the good news of the gospel, because we need to create space where we can have these conversations to share the good news of Jesus.

If we don't create those spaces and all we do is just shut the world off, then you're never going to share the gospel.

First Peter 2, you know, do good works so that effectively it might glorify our fathers in heaven.

That's the same thing. Matthew 5, 16 says basically the same thing. But then, you know, you have Jesus in the gospels, bless those who persecute you, you know, love your enemies.

You have Paul in Romans 12, like when you, when we're reviled and like the people who do us harm, we're to bless them and not curse them.

Right. It's very clear that we're to greet sin with kindness. You know, that's from the apostle

Paul. There's many other passages that we could reference in terms of how we're to treat. Can I throw one in? Yeah. Yeah.

I just want to throw in, we don't always understand first John when he says we love because he first loved us.

That's the love of God. We love like God, unconditional, sacrificial, and unending. The world doesn't know that kind of love.

We love the world that way, because he first loved us that way. Brother, I've said so many times, it's like the world is searching for, and we all agree the world's lost.

And at the same time, people are made in God's image. And it is obvious that people are craving passion, forgiveness, absolution, freedom.

They're searching for all of it. And we are the ones who have it. Right. We're the only ones who can offer it because God has given it to us.

It's poured it into our hearts and he's given us freedom and he's redeemed us in Christ. And so we hold this out to people.

Amen. So I'm referencing a number of verses to illustrate the point. Of course, we live our

Christian lives in the community of the church, and we are called in a unique way to love each other. And even John 13, like you referenced earlier, how we love each other.

Now we do love those who are outside. I think we've made that case. And in loving people who are outside, like you said, man, we are an instrument in the

Lord's hands to save his people. And I agree. You know, man, there's so much we could say here, but like,

I think that's what Alistair Begg is trying to make room for. And he says, you know, I'm going to go down on the side of mercy and compassion.

Amen to that. I agree with him. Can I jump in there? I don't think

Alistair means let them live in their sin. Of course he doesn't. Or he doesn't want to leave them in their sin.

No one wants to leave anybody in their sin. But you have to, you got to create a space for it to have these conversations sometimes.

Exactly. The man has been very clear. You don't have to do it in sin though. No, on his stance on marriage, gender, sexuality, the whole thing.

He's orthodox in what he believes. That's right. And we need to remember that. Other just gospel passages that encourage my heart.

So this is an Old Testament one. I'm just going to acknowledge it. Isaiah 55 .1 is another text that I think beautifully summarizes and encapsulates the offer of the gospel, where the

Lord says through the prophet, all those who thirst come to the waters, right?

And those who have no money come and buy wine and milk without money and without price.

And so you got nothing. You have nothing to bring. You got nothing to offer. And you know you don't, but you thirst.

And then of course, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for what? Righteousness. They don't have it. It's like,

I need it. And I don't know where to go to get it. And now I have one whose name is

Jesus telling me, come to me and I'll give it to you. That's gospel. A couple other passages.

This is Jesus in terms of his earthly ministry. So I'll do, I don't know that it matters.

All right, Luke 7, 36 to 50. The woman of the city, right? Beautiful passage where Jesus is dining at a

Pharisee's house. The Pharisee's name is Simon. And as he's there, a woman of the city, which means she's a prostitute, right?

She comes into the Pharisee's compound, I suppose, and as they're dining and having dinner.

And of course, the Pharisee is just kind of internally recoiling at what's going on.

And Jesus, of course, addresses the man and makes it plain that those who are forgiven much love much and all that.

But what is Jesus's posture toward this woman? Well, and what is her posture toward him?

Just brief insertion here, a great exercise for people. If you, over the next months or years, if you are going to read through the gospel narratives, read through the gospels with lenses on looking for this, how does

Jesus interact with different kinds of people? How does he interact, one, with people who think they're righteous or think they can be?

He's brutal, speaks law. But then how does he interact with people who know they have righteousness and who know they are sinners?

He is gracious and merciful all day. What is his word to the woman of the city who comes in prostrate?

She's washing his feet with her tears and drying them with her hair. She's got nothing. He looks at her and he says, daughter, your sins are forgiven.

It's like, this is Jesus. Jesus is perfect. And he was perfected by suffering and all of those things, and yet he's a sympathetic high priest.

How unlike us is he? Because if we were perfect, John, we would be intolerable jerks.

We would be so self -righteous, and we would be so condemning toward other people and condescending.

He is perfect. And what is he? He's gentle, and he's gracious, and he's merciful.

He's like, I get it. I know your weakness. With boldness, come and ask for grace and mercy when you need it, which is all the time, but most pointedly, when we sin, we need it.

One other brief comment on just how you see people liberated by the joy of their salvation and when they confess sin.

It's Psalm 32, man. It's like what David says, blessed is the one whose sins are forgiven, against whom the

Lord doesn't count his iniquity. Not that there aren't sins, not that there isn't iniquity. It's that God doesn't count it against you.

Then what does he say, though, in verses three and following? David says that when I hid my sin, I was dying inside, like my bones were wasting away.

But then what I do, I confess. I was like, I'm going to confess my sins to the Lord, and you forgave me.

Everything changes. This is what we're after. It's about the confession of sin and the liberation that follows.

When you look into the eyes of people, there is a brother in our church right now that's gone through a situation like we're describing.

When we sing, I can't look at him without crying because he's got tears in his eyes. If I look at him,

I lose it. I can't handle it in a good way because I'm just like, man, he believes.

He's like, man, it is Christ and it's all of him. I am so thankful, and I've been set free. The gentleness and the patience and the meekness that just oozes out of this man is gripping to everybody who knows him.

It has so affected the hearts of his pastors. We talk about it on a weekly basis. That's the gospel's fruit.

It's the tactics of the evil one to cause anyone to ever question that. Justin Perdue You know, in our church, we have a lot of people who have come from broken homes, broken marriages on their second marriage, going through divorce, prior backgrounds with all kinds of stuff.

I find it interesting that the people who have the lives of a train wreck and that God is restoring them or those who just absolutely love the preaching of God's grace are the ones who are the most involved in our church.

The ones who are the self -righteous and whose lives have never been messed up and their lives are put together, I can't seem to get to serve.

Our church is a very serving church. We had this conversation with the staff yesterday about how many people in our church aren't serving.

Let's create lukewarm people who don't want to be involved. It actually invigorates people.

They want to give away what they have received. They want to be a part of this transformative work of the gospel.

I can tell you, Justin, the amount of time that these people hear the gospel, they come up and they're just so thankful that they're in a place that continues to fuel their obedience.

That's how they say it. Thank you for fueling our motivation and our hearts for Christ because if it was the law,

I wouldn't have the motivation to keep going because I'm such a failure.

I'm so weak. We don't see grace and the gospel as the fuel.

I think it's interesting. We have people who are trapped in their sin and the number one question they ask for in the comments when they get into the community is, help me.

They don't want to be in it. They listen to Theocast and they come into the community and they're like,

I keep struggling with the same sin. Help me. It's no one saying, it's okay, brother. There's grace.

No one says that. No one says that. Hey, let's help and then remember that Christ is for you because you need that comfort.

Let's to those of us who God has graciously transformed our life. He's put us in a place where we're now influencing others.

When Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ, you and I are in this position. Now we're encouraging our congregants to look at our faith and imitate our faith as we imitate

Christ. What I find comforting is that it's easy to sit with sinners and be around them when you know that it is the love and affection of the gospel coming through you and your words that will draw people to Christ.

What's happening right now in our current culture is that we have taken up the position of judge instead of ambassador.

What does Paul say? We implore men to be reconciled to God. That's your job, not to judge people.

That is not your job. You can judge them and say, yeah, you're clearly not a Christian. This is what you need.

Be reconciled to Christ. Instead, we hold this position of condescension on people and somehow think our meanness and our condescension and our hypocrisy will cause repentance.

It does not cause repentance. The gospel causes repentance. Use the law. This is how

I love to explain it to people. Hold up the law and say, do you see what we both have done? We have both broken this law together.

We have done this, but one of us stands clean because of what Christ has done to me.

Would you like to know how to stand clean as well? We both have broken the law, but we don't do it that way.

You've broken the law. Who do you think you are? You don't stand in your own righteousness. You stand in the righteousness of Christ.

You hold up the law and say, look what we have done and look what Christ has done to me. Would you like to receive this as well?

Christians who receive the message of the gospel of grace over and over again can sit down with train wrecks and do this because the train wreck doesn't feel judged by that person.

They feel welcomed and loved by them and they want to hear about what it is that they have. This is why

Peter says this way, last statement, be ready to give, I think it's Peter, be ready to give an answer to the hope that lies within you.

Why? Because people are going to look at you and go, you're like me, but you have a hope that I don't understand. Please explain.

Yeah. What's the hope we have and what do we look to? I promise you, dear believer out there, looking to your feelings and looking to how you're doing when you're struggling is not going to help at all.

The only place to look is to Christ who is gentle, who is lowly, who is compassionate, who sympathizes with our weaknesses, who says tender things to his sheep, who calls us by name.

We hear his voice. He tells us we're forgiven. He tells us he's not going to lose us.

He tells us we're safe. He says he's going to raise us up on the last day. These are the things that comfort our souls when we're not feeling the way that we know we should.

Amen. This is a song we sang on Sunday. I'm going to do my best here to get through this.

I couldn't sing it every time we started. I just had to sit there and listen. It's probably because all my three children were saying on Sunday, which was also a special moment for me.

It's called Rest. You've probably heard this song. Someday we'll lay our swords down and no longer fight.

Someday we'll rest from battles and pray and slumber through the night. Someday you'll wipe away each tear and banish death and pain.

With angels around your throne, we'll sing all hail for Jesus' name. Until then, we find our rest in you.

And that's how I feel. You know, every day I wake up and I'm like, man, it's a good thing

I can rest in him because where else am I going to rest? Where else am I going to go?

I'm so weak. I'm so frail. What does Paul say? When we are weak, then we are strong. It's not okay to be weak.

It's not okay to be a grown man and cry. We've got to be strong. It's interesting.

It's like, no, we cry out to our Father because we're weak, because we have not the strength.

I think Christianity, until it embraces the weakness of the flesh and stops like commixing the law into the gospel.

Listen, the gospel is for the weak and the broken. The gospel is for the sinner, right?

Gospels for those who gave up on themselves completely and said,

Lord, if you do not save me, I cannot be saved, right? Amen, brother. For those who are strong and confident and for those who want to use gospel as an additive, you trample on Christians.

You destroy them. You kick them, right? My encouragement to all of us who are feeling this, for those of you that are listening to this, this title resonated with you when you saw it come across your podcast feed.

You're like, yeah, I think I need to hear this today. Please hear two broken men who want you to know how weak we truly are.

And the only way we find confidence is that we constantly look at every angle possible and say, is

Jesus not powerful and strong and mighty to save? Does he not hold us?

I love that song. He will hold us fast. He becomes our anchor.

We float with inside him. He is the one who carries us along. And so the thing that should be encouraging to you is that as he holds you, if you don't feel his arms around you and you feel distant and cold, and as if you have failed one too many times, or you just can't seem to get your brain to believe it, you can rest in this fact that he never lets you go.

He'll never lets anyone go. No one, not even your feelings can pluck you out of his hand.

And though you may not feel it today, you pray and you ask God to give you strength, man.

What does he say with boldness? Run into my room, run into my presence and ask me for mercy.

Ask me for grace in a time that you don't have wisdom, which is meekness and gentleness and open to reason because you can ask me for that.

One last thing, Justin, this is why Paul says, lay all your burdens upon me.

You're cold and lifeless. You can put that on me. It's almost like we're ashamed to tell God, God, I'm cold towards you.

I'm lifeless. He goes, I know, lay it on me. He remembers that we're dust, you know, that's

Psalm 103, 14. And he tells us to cast our burdens and our anxieties upon him, 1 Peter 5, 8, 7, 8.

And then, man, it's like thinking about a couple of things are in my mind.

Thinking about Jesus, you know, I've mentioned some of the things that he says to us.

And then think about this. This is a kind of like an end of Romans 8 idea. Can anything separate us from the love of Christ?

No. And that includes our own lack of feeling. Say it again, brother, say it again.

Yeah. Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? No. And that includes our lack of feeling.

That's right. So if Jesus has said to us, I've got you, you're mine, and I'm yours.

You've heard my voice, called your name. I'll never cast you out.

Your sins are forgiven. I'm going to raise you up on the last day. I've gone to prepare a place for you, you know, and I'm going to come again to take you to be with me where I am.

And I'm the good shepherd. You're my sheep. I'm going to watch over you. I'm going to protect you.

Don't be afraid. Like if he said all that to us, right, think about this.

If he said all that, and if he is who he says he is, how could we ever be lost from him?

And like we, imperfectly but really, we have fled to him.

We have taken refuge in him. We have put all of our hope and trust in him.

That's what it is to be a Christian, by the way. I mean, to be a Christian is to acknowledge, like you said,

I am weak. I'm a miserable wretch. I'm a lawbreaker. I've got nothing to offer.

I'm coming with an open hand to receive, and I'm coming with no confidence whatsoever in myself.

I am coming to cast myself completely upon Jesus and what he's done for me. And if he's not enough,

I'm done. And so we've put all of our hope and all of our trust in him. The scripture says that we, by faith, are united to him, and we are now a part of his body.

He is our head. We are a part of his body. How in the world, if all of that's true, do we think that he would ever let us go, right?

That's the stuff that you remind yourself of when you're struggling and when you feel weak and when you feel apathetic and you feel discouraged.

There's an anecdote. Many preachers have said these things before, but I think Alistair Begg puts it about as well as anybody.

He's talking about the emphasis on feeling so often and the feelings thing that is the tone and the tenor of so much that goes on in church services these days.

He kind of does this bit, it's really good, where he talks about visiting a church.

He's funny too. I mean, he's a winsome, funny communicator, but he effectively paints the picture. We've all been there. He says, walk in.

It feels like we're getting ready for a concert, and there's the big countdown on the screen. It's five minutes, and then we finally get down to ten, nine, eight, seven, six.

He said, I didn't know what was going to happen when it hit zero. I mean, basically, it's because it's just such a hype train.

Then right on cue, with a grandiose gesture, the worship leader grabs the mic.

How are we doing this morning? How y 'all feel? Then he goes, what kind of a

New Testament question is that? How do you feel? Then he starts to paint the picture of what his morning was like, that we've all been there.

He said, I spilled my coffee. I kicked the dog. I feel like an absolutely miserable wretch.

I fought with my wife on the way to church. I feel rotten. That's how I feel. What do you have for me?

Then he goes on to say, do not ask me how

I feel. Ask me what I know. Ask me what I know to be true of Christ, and give me verities.

Give me truths that can deal with my soul. Let's sing songs about how we've been ransomed and restored and forgiven, because that will actually do something to deal with my miserable wretchedness.

It's a good reminder for us all. I was having a conversation, and I'll be done here commenting. I was having a conversation with a

Theocast listener yesterday on the phone, a very encouraging conversation with a brother. We were just talking about how good

God is and the things that he's taught us from his word. In particular, we were talking pointedly about the distinction between the law and the gospel, and how that's so good and life -giving and encouraging.

As you start to have these categories and you read the scriptures, things just hit different than they used to.

He was talking about studying Psalm 15 to teach it, to preach it in his own local church context.

That psalm is excellent from a law and gospel perspective, by the way, because it begins with effectively who is going to ascend the hill of the

Lord, and who's going to dwell in his holy tent, all this kind of stuff. It basically goes on to say that the person who is without sin, the person who's never done

A, B, C, D, E, such a person can do that and dwell with the

Lord. And so this brother is talking about reading, and he said, bro, the first time I read that passage after having these categories of law and gospel, he said,

I cried because I was reading it, and I thought, who can ascend the hill of the Lord? Who's going to dwell with him?

Not me. I said, you're exactly right, there's one. He said, amen, there's one.

If his righteousness isn't enough, I'm done. It's a good reminder that when you feel weak and discouraged, your hope is not in yourself, your hope is not in your feelings, your hope is not in your zeal.

I'm reminded like Rock of Ages, one of the verses we love to sing, it's like, not the labors of my hands can fulfill thy law's demands.

Could my zeal, no respite, no. If my passion for God and the things of God never ceased, could my tears forever flow, if I was absolutely heartbroken and wrecked over sin at every moment the way that I should be, and I was just so contrite all the time, all of that, all for sin could not atone, thou must save, and thou alone.

I know we've said this stuff from day one, John, and we're just going to keep saying it, that we're always looking outside of ourselves to save what's wrong in us.

We're looking outside of ourselves to Christ and what he has done that's finished.

This is part of what it means, man, to be a Reformed confessional Christian. And it's a good place to be.

And I'm mindful of the GRN meeting, and in a number of weeks now, we're going to be talking about all this stuff. It's just balm for the soul, man.

Yeah. You know, Justin, because we love our children, and Hebrews even alludes to this, we who are evil fathers will discipline our children.

Yeah, it's Hebrews 12, yeah. So Hebrews 12, 6, it says, for the Lord disciplines the ones he loves and chastises every son whom he receives.

Now, I find great comfort in that because sin, it enslaves me, it kills me, it destroys my experience of hope and joy, it enslaves others, it hurts others.

And because God loves me, because he loves me, he will do things in such a way that will, when

I think of discipline, I think him reaching out and pulling me back towards himself, saying, son, you have wandered, and so I'm going to have to do something that you're, you know,

I'm going to pull you back into me. And we often think of the chastisement of God as he's angry.

He's an angry father. He's not angry. He says, love, it's the same love that he gave you when he showed mercy upon you and didn't show wrath.

And when he pulls you back to himself, in other words, I love how this is said, he repents you, that's out of love.

He repents you back to himself, not of anger, but out of love. It's all of his motivations towards us are always love.

And that's just really hard for human beings. We don't treat each other this way. This is why it's an unusual supernatural relationship that we have with God that is unhuman.

And we try to humanize God, and that's the danger of this relationship. You can never humanize him in that way.

Now, even with our relationship with Jesus as an unnatural, because he in being a human loves us because he's

God, right? And so even that relationship is unique in that it's not like any other relationship, because those relationships are based upon sin.

In other words, that was the only other thought I wanted. No, I'm going to just go ahead and add to what you're saying before I go to Luke 15. In the second

London confession, the confession that we subscribe to, chapter 5, paragraph 5, chapter 17, paragraph 1.

Chapter 5 is on providence. Chapter 17 is on the perseverance of the saints, right?

So 5 .5, 17 .1, read those paragraphs sometime if you have opportunity.

They will encourage your soul to no end on this topic, like even thinking about Hebrews 12 and God being a loving father and he disciplines those he loves.

So we, again, fallible parents, we sometimes discipline our kids out of frustration.

But deep down, good fathers and mothers at the human level understand that there are things that we have to teach our children.

There are things that we need to train them in. There are things that we need to help them see. There are things we need to make them aware of if it's going to go well for them even in this life.

How much more so then does our heavenly father need to discipline, correct, guide, chastise us for our eternal benefit and to keep us from sin and the things that would wreck our souls?

And so in 5 .5 in the confession, it acknowledges that God in his providence allows and even ordains that his children would go through these seasons of sin, difficulty, that they would experience hardship and trials of various kinds, oftentimes the result of our own doing, but that God would be working in and through all of that to produce good things.

He would humble us. He would show us the depth of our need of Christ. He would teach us the wreckage that sin produces so that the next time we're presented with a similar situation, we might not go down the same path.

The confession goes on and on about the various good things that Lord does even in and through the sin of his people.

17 .1 makes it very plain that there is no way that God's elect will be lost, but that there are seasons of time where all kinds of things may befall us and that we might be shaken by any number of storms and floods and beaten practically to death, yet we will never finally be moved from the rock and foundation of our faith, which is

Christ for us. Christ Jesus is the rock on whom we stand. We know this because God is going to keep us in Christ by faith unto salvation.

We take comfort in all those realities that even as the Lord disciplines us and chastises us, he has good and holy purposes in view.

He's not mean. He's not angry. He's not sadistic. He takes no pleasure in our suffering.

He doesn't delight in the perishing of the wicked. How much less so does he delight in the suffering of his children?

I'll add this in here. Romans 8 .28, we often use that like if someone loses a loved one or loses a child.

Well, if you read that and you understand it in context, I actually think he's talking to a struggling believer.

He's like, listen, even your own sin that you constantly struggle with, all things I will work for good.

And that's hard for, like you go back to Joseph, what does he say to his brothers? You meant this for evil, but God meant it for good.

And that's insane to think that God will take my sin -filled lack of faith, fearful life.

And he goes, John, it's in my power, in my strength, I will make this good. And you're like, all right, well,

I'm going to trust you. I'm going to, I'll just do one more day. Yeah. And 17 .3, I left out.

So this is also in the chapter on sanctification. So they may fall into grievous sin and continue in them for a time due to the temptation of Satan and the world and the strength of corruption remaining in them and even our own neglect of the means of our preservation.

You know, in so doing, we're going to incur all kinds of things and we're going to hurt other people. We're going to scandalize ourselves.

I mean, all of this stuff can happen. Nevertheless, we will be kept. We will be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.

This is what we can take heart in. Right. So maybe in thinking about the goodness of God and the fact that God is a father who not only delights to give good gifts to his children.

God is of God who finds joy in saving sinful people.

This is a mind blow for me. I mean, and at least for me that like to to really see it, to wrap my mind and heart around it and to understand.

And it's like, Lord, write this on my heart that you that your nature as a redeemer, the

Lord has always been a redeemer that you delight in saving people who don't deserve.

And so Luke 15 is a very famous chapter. It contains one of the most famous parables that Jesus ever told.

You know, and I'm just going to go in front loaded. I know sometimes people maybe in a punchy shock jockey way, make a big deal about like Jesus kicking it with sinners and they almost talk about it in a way where it's like it sort of celebrates sinfulness in a way.

I'm going to acknowledge that that can be done. That's right. And that that has been done. That it's almost like we want to celebrate sin because those are the people that Jesus wants to be around are people who are sinners, you know.

And so that's not the angle I'm coming with right now, but the context matters.

Luke 15, and I'm not going to read a lot much of the chapter at all. I'm just going to comment, but the setting it up,

Luke 15 Now the tax collectors and sinners. So that's bad people, right? It's not likable folks.

It's not a great crowd, right? On a cultural level, we don't understand. These are the people that you would not want your kids hanging out with, right?

I mean, so now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to him. So there was something about Jesus that the self -righteous and those who trusted in themselves, they hated him, didn't want to be near him, wanted to kill him.

The people who were sinful and knew that they were, were drawn to it. Interesting. Verse two, and the

Pharisees and the scribes grumbled saying, this man receives sinners and eats with them. They're upset by the fact that he receives people such as this and even eats with them, breaks bread with them.

So he told them this parable. So he starts to tell parables. First one he tells is about, you know, there's a hundred sheep and 99 are fine, but the one is just off, bad things, not good, lost.

And the shepherd leaves the 99, goes and pursues the one, finds it with great joy, lays it on his shoulders, brings it back.

And when he gets back, he says, calls together his friends and his neighbors, says to them, rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.

Just so I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who need no repentance.

And so now that, that 99 righteous persons who need no repentance, that's a hypothetical category, right?

I mean, we know that no such fallen person exists, but the point being that there is joy in heaven over what?

Over a lost, wretched, miserable offender being found and being rescued by Christ.

That's what produces joy in heaven. Next parable is similar idea. There's a woman who has 10 coins.

She loses one. She turns the house inside out and upside down to find the coin. When she finds the coin, she calls her friends together and says, let's celebrate because I found my coin.

Let's have a party. And he concludes again, just so I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

And then the prodigal son, right? We know it well. What's the point there? Same thing.

There's the son that's lost and is living in debauchery and has forsaken his father and his family and all those things.

And he comes to himself and he's like, you know, even the hired workers, the slaves in my father's house, the servants, they're doing better than I am.

I'm going to go back and tell dad I'm happy to work for him. And so he goes and the father sees him coming.

We know it. The father sees him runs to him, embraces him. The son goes in on his stick.

You know, I've sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. This is all true of us before the father, by the way.

But then the father doesn't even let him finish the whole like, hey, can I work for you? He just says, bring the best robe in the house, put it on him, put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet and let's kill the fattened calf.

Let's celebrate because my son was dead and he's alive. He's lost and he's found now. And this is the posture of the

Lord. He is more of a redeemer. He is more loving, more compassionate, more gracious, more merciful than I conceive him to be pretty much any moment of my life.

And I need to remember that this is who he is. And when you think about this, John, and when we extol these things about him, does it not evoke love and affection, gratitude, joy?

I am motivated to obey. I want to do good. You know, I want to be a righteous man.

It's like, look what he's done for me. And now it's just so much better than this like fear and dread that's peddled around all the place.

I've talked a long time. No, I love the story of the prodigal son because it's the latter part of the story that gets at what we're getting at.

It's true. That son goes, hey, this is not right. The older son.

The older son. This is not, and then he, what does he point to? Transactions. Yep. What he's done.

Look what I have done. And the father's like, but I love you both and I've blessed you both. Like you don't understand.

And that's the part that I wanted to talk about today in that the older son often is what is presented to us as this is what

God is really like. And we kind of buckle. We buckle at the idea that God can be so lavish.

All right. I got to read you one more. I know because it's connected to this. Because it sounds, I know the word scandalous is used maybe too much, but it is.

It is scandalous. It is. Well, this is why Paul says, I don't even know how many times, four times, don't be ashamed of the gospel.

Yes. This is, and he says it in reverse and Titus didn't say it ashamed. He says it positive. He says for we

Titus three, three, for we ourselves were once foolish. Sounds like the prodigal disobedient.

Sounds like a prodigal. Let us stray slave to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy and hated by others and hating one another.

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God, our savior appeared, he saved us not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy by the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the

Holy spirit, who he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, our savior. So that being justified by grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Now, this is the verse I couldn't wait to get to. This is trustworthy. This is trustworthy.

Paul's like, listen, you can trust what I'm saying. Why would he say that? Because people are struggling, Justin. They're struggling to believe it.

This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to insist on these things. So that what? So that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works.

What is he saying? Good works come from what? The insistent on the trustworthiness of the statement.

Yeah. They, they come good works come from the heralding of Christ. They come from the gospel. They come from regeneration.

They come from God. God works these things in and through us and the end of the verse, these things.

So he says, this saying is trustworthy. Oh, that beautiful presentation of the gospel. Like you just said, and I want you to insist on these things that these things you're going to insist on is the gospel

Christ for us and regeneration. And like we have been made alive together with Christ by God almighty, by grace, not merit, by faith and not works the whole thing you insist on that.

So that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works far from promoting lawlessness and antinomianism.

Yeah. Well, and he says, these things are excellent and profitable for people.

Holy smokes, man. I mean, what a passage that is. Don't tell me to not point to the goodness of God. He says,

I must insist on it. I got to go on and say one more thing. He says, but there's a negative side of this, but avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law.

They are unprofitable and worthless. Oh my goodness. And boy, do we quarrel about the law,

Justin. You talk about Christian Twitter. That's all that stuff is, man. It is an absolute food fight over the law and quarreling over all this stuff.

Controversy. And so no wonder God's people are suffering because they're not hearing and insisting on a trustworthy thing called the goodness of God's love.

So we're here to pound the table and say, let's insist on it. Yes. And like,

Father, we believe, help our unbelief. May we trust that you are this way. And I promise all of us,

I mean, if we thought more about the goodness and the love and the grace and the mercy of God, if we thought more about the excellencies of Christ and the fact that He is such a sufficient and mighty

Savior, how could we ever be lost? If we thought more about that than we did all this other nonsense we fill our heads with and listening to the lies of the enemy and the accusations of our consciences, we would be far better off and we would not sin more.

I know we say that all the time, but it is just worth repeating. I mean, I'll make a logical application here.

I think people are trapped in sin and fighting. I mean, got to keep reading the passage.

As for a person who stirs up division after warning him once and then twice have nothing to do more to do with them.

Why? Because it says this, knowing that such a portion is warped and sinful and he is what self condemned.

The point of it being is this, that we don't need to be discussing unprofitable information.

And it's those things that lead our hearts to, I think, pride and arrogance.

It leads us to arguments. It stirs up strife and division in the church.

What I want to conclude with this, I know we're running out of time and I'm panicked about it.

I wish our podcast could be longer. That you will not waste your time discussing, uplifting and contemplating the goodness of God.

In you, it will produce hope and joy and good works. Because that's what Paul said it would do.

Hope, joy and good works. What else would we want in this life, Justin? Then hope, joy and good works. Yeah.

And it'll give us peace for our souls. Oh, I'll say one last thing. This is where I was going and I lost my mind. I have been listening and we've been fighting against pietism and browbeating preaching.

You cannot produce affection and love and obedience by the law. That's his point.

Affection and obedience is produced by insisting on a trustworthy statement, which is the goodness of God in the gospel.