An Interview with an Interviewer (Brian Auten)

Gozer the Gozerian, good evening. As a duly designated representative of the city, county, and state of New York, I order you to cease any and all supernatural activity and return forthwith to your place of origin or to the nearest convenient parallel dimension.

Ray stance of the Ghostbusters. I am super excited because my guest today is probably a bigger fan of Ghostbusters than I am, but maybe we're at the same level. I don't know how to gauge that. I am going to have the pleasure of inviting Brian Autin of Apologetics 315 on with me in just a few moments.

I find in him a kindred spirit as we like 80s movies, more specifically the Ghostbusters and Apologetics. So I'm looking forward to just inviting him on in just a few moments. I'm glad I got that quote out of the way before people started like trickling in.

They can enjoy that cheesiness at the beginning later on and I won't have to be here to read the comments. At any rate, before I invite Brian on the screen with me, I'd like to give folks a heads up. Tomorrow, I will be having Dr. Khaldoon Swice, who was my former apologetics professor when I was doing seminary at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.

So we're gonna have him on tomorrow at 4 p .m. Eastern, okay? And you guys, I invite you guys to bring your questions and things like that. It will be live. As you know, that's kind of how I like to do things here.

So I'm looking forward to that and I don't have anything else planned after that. I do have a couple of things on the docket, but they're not solidified just yet. But definitely keep your heads up if you're following me on social media, Facebook or anything like that.

I'll let you guys know what's going down. Well, without further ado, I'd like to invite on the screen with me for the very first time I hear, okay, this guy's a podcaster. He doesn't really like to show his mug on the internet, but this might be the first time he's ever done it.

So this is pretty exciting. So I'd like to introduce Brian Autin of Apologetics 315. How are you doing, Brian?

Doing great, Eli. Thanks for having me on.

So let's kind of confirm this. Is this the first time you've done like a video format? Like ever?

No, I've done a couple of little video things, but I don't love live things. I don't like that idea of, oops, I messed up and now it's there forever.

All right, that's fair enough. Well, let me give you an opportunity to maybe tell folks a little bit about yourself in terms of what you do. I kind of just briefly introduced you, but maybe you can kind of give people a heads up as to what you do, where they can find most of your content.

Most people will already be familiar with that, but why don't you just take a few moments here while I kind of set up my stuff here.

Sure, well, probably the main thing that people would maybe know me for is the podcast, the Apologetics 315 Podcast. Used to call it Apologetics 315 Interviews, but there's quite a few interviews on there with apologists, historians, biblical scholars, anybody having to do with anything arguing in defense and of Christianity and its truth, it's gonna be found there.

So maybe your favorite authors or speakers and people like that we've interviewed. So about two years ago, we rebooted the interviews podcast because it was just me for quite a while. And I had my great friend, Chad Gross from Truth Bomb Apologetics.

He's my Apologetics bosom buddy.

And we've, back to the 80s, right?

And so we kind of kicked it off again and we thought, well, let's just have fun and have conversations as well as interviews. So it's a little bit more of a mixed format, but yeah, it's less formal and a little bit more fun than just the very stripped down, straightforward interviews that I was doing before.

Sure, sure. Yeah, well, I thought it'd be interesting to have you on because you're an interviewer and I'm an interviewer and it kind of gives people a unique perspective because as one would imagine, being able to speak with a wide range of people on a wide range of topics, there's a lot that we learn.

I don't know about you, but I actually go back and listen to some of my own episodes when I'm multitasking here between asking the questions and listening to the response and then kind of going through the comments and the questions.

I don't really get to fully enjoy and appreciate what's being said in the moment. So do you listen to your own podcast at all?

Most of the time, it's just when I do the edit, for me, there's the prep part where I'm getting stuff from it. Then there's the interview where I'm getting stuff from it. Then the edit part where I'm hearing new things.

And then when I finally listen to it, it's almost as if I'm hearing it for the first time when I hear it in my earbuds and I'm driving or whatever. And that's when I maybe finally get the most out of it.

I tend to not want to go back and listen to old ones because I'm scared of hearing my voice. But when I do, I'm always pleasantly surprised. I'm like, you know, that wasn't that bad.

Well, I hope it doesn't sound too weird, but I've been listening to you for years. And I always thought you had the most soothing and calm voice out of anyone I ever listened to. You're just enjoyable to listen to.

And just from an interviewer's perspective, you ask really good questions. Like when you ask a question, I'm like, wow, I didn't think to ask something. That's really helpful. And it looks like you're not simply asking questions just to get content.

You really care about your listeners. You ask questions in such a way that the answer is really gonna cater to what's gonna be helpful to your listeners. And so for that, I really do appreciate how you do things.

Thanks. Well, I consider that a high compliment. I do, if anybody's familiar with the podcasting world, it, you know, people, publishers and promoters, they realize that, hey, we can have this author go on everybody's podcast.

And so it's easy to get a promo sheet and they'll tell you what questions to ask.

Right.

Although that, I tend to not even wanna look at it because I don't want that to form my questions. I think the best interviews are the ones where I care most about understanding that material and I've engaged with it in a long enough time to ask questions that are meaningful for my growth.

But also I can structure the interview intentionally in a way so that if someone's listened to this person for the first time, I can take them on a walking tour through this conversation, point out all the things that they should see while finding the things I wanna see that I'm there to look for myself.

So yeah, the prep work and having a real desire to learn it and to, you know, most of the people I feel like I know them already and it's just exciting to talk to them and sort of show my appreciation for their work as well.

That's awesome. And I can tell that those that you interview really appreciate your questions. Cause I mean, I've listened to so many episodes and I can't, I lost count how many times when you ask a question, they're like, wow, now that's a really good question or thank you for asking that.

So that's excellent. But now it's my turn to ask you questions. And so my first main question as we kind of kick off our discussion is,.

The Origin of the Apologetics 315 Podcast

What was the inspiration.

Behind doing interviews specifically? I mean, you had an interest in apologetics in general. What was the specific thing that kind of kicked this off and inspired you to say, you know what, let me reach out to this person and kind of record this and see, you know, where it goes.

This might be helpful for folks.

Well, I'm thinking about that. I was working as a graphic designer and had a lot of time to listen to my headphones while doing, you know, designs. That was back in 2006, 2007. And I had just been downloading a lot of apologetic stuff.

And at that time, it was really hard to find resources. There was no like, oh, well, you go to this website and you know, there's so much now. And so I would find great lectures and stuff like that. Then I would read the authors.

Then I would try to scour around to find good stuff from them. And so I was really interested in trying to find helpful stuff because I searched hard to find stuff that I wanted to learn about. And so I remember just going on Amazon and buying a nice microphone with no plan.

And I just, it came and I was like, yes, this is good. You know, and it sat for six months. And I think, I know somebody asked me, why did you buy that? And I was like, well, one day, I think I'm gonna do a podcast.

But I didn't have a plan, you know. I just knew that that was something I wanted to do. And I had no, literally no plan. And then I think after I was building Apologetics 315 back in its early days, and it was gaining some momentum.

Someone asked, like the end of the year, I would make a summary of all the different things and resources that we'd found that year. And someone said, well, what are you gonna do next year? And I said, well, you know, it'd be great to start interviewing some of these authors.

And people.

And I thought, well, and I don't know if it was Mary Jo Sharp asked me that or something. And I thought, well, she's starting her ministry and she's a woman doing apologetics. We need to promote her, you know.

So let's do interview.

You were on the whole, like, you know, women's movement before it got popular.

Like, we need to support them.

Yeah.

Okay.

So part of it was like, hey, I'm getting a lot from these people and I want to help promote them. And I saw that people started coming to Apologetics 315. So it was like, well, let's interview them and find out how we can sort of help just promote good resources.

So that's kind of how that started. And, you know, one of the ideas there too, was trying to create the first idea with Apologetics 315 was bring together great resources in one place that was hard to find at the time.

Then the next idea with the podcast was, can I just make great standalone pieces that you could go back and listen to 10 years later and still be good? And I think some of those have accomplished that goal.

You know, there are certain ones I've happened to go back and listen to from that long ago. And it's like, wow, that kid had done that yesterday and I'd be happy with it, you know? So I'm glad for that.

Favorite Apologetics Interviews and Memorable Guests

Excellent. Well, not to put you on the spot, but what are some of the best episodes or interviews that you've done? And why are they your favorite? I mean, maybe it's a specific person you were like really anticipating.

I mean, if it wasn't weird, us people who love Apologetics, I mean, we would have like Apologetics, if this was a thing, Apologetics trading cards.

I'd be like, I'll trade you your William Lane Craig.

Without a beard for a William Lane Craig with a beard.

You know, they could have different

They'll have different powers and skills, you know?

That's right.

But, you know, when we are in this line of work and we're listening to a lot of people that we can kind of get starstruck, I'm like, man, this guy is such an awesome thinker. Or, you know, I'd really love to have a conversation with this or that person.

What are your, which ones are your favorite interviews with whom and why? Was it simply because it was the person you really wanted, you were looking forward to speaking with? Was it the specific topic that was covered?

Why don't you unpack that for us?

Sure, well, I had an idea you might ask something like that. So I kind of, what I did, I just opened up my podcast, Player of Choice, Overcast. Overcast is the one I use. But I just scrolled through the whole feed from beginning to end.

And I just thought, well, let me just think about ones that pop out.

And why.

First was Mary Jo Sharp. So thank you, Mary Jo, because that was like the first ever episode. And I remember in that one, after the fact, because everything was edited on one track or something, you know, it was back when I was still trying to figure it out.

Sure.

So I don't know. She said a joke, you know, I asked her something and I said, well, what's it like to be a woman in apologetics? And she said some joke that, that was funny, but for some reason my laugh didn't come through.

Or whatever.

And so when the final product came out, it sounded like she said this joke that just fell absolutely flat. And so that was interesting.

That's awesome.

So that was one. The other thing that happened, and I have to thank Lenny Esposito for this. He hooked me up with William Lane Craig, you know. He said, hey, you should interview William Lane Craig because, you know, he had the connections at the time.

So he made that happen. And so after that, which I was like, wow, I was so stoked. You know, when you send out an invite for someone to be on your podcast, you don't wanna say, hey, I'm starting this podcast that I haven't interviewed anybody.

So it was one of those things where you could say, hey, come on our podcast guests, past guests include the likes of, and maybe list some of the ones you'd be proud to, like, hey, you know, see, you'd wanna be on here too.

So once William Lane Craig was on board having done one with him, then that helped legitimize it. Like, hey, if he's willing to go on the podcast and I guess I better go on there too. That's the impression I got.

So I was glad that that happened. I know he's made quite an impact and he's been a very, he's certainly really influential. I don't, I'm not a fan boy. You know, there's a tendency just because we think of him in a certain way to think, well, then we're fan boys.

No, he can't deny his influence, you know, but no, he's definitely, there's a lot of things I really enjoyed, a joy about William Lane Craig, but I'll tell you later what things I really enjoy about certain people I've learned from.

So I remember interviewing Greg Kokel when his book tactics came out. At the time that his book tactics came out was when, if you wanna say someone was, you know how someone gets saved and it's like, this is their like, they're on fire time, you know, and they're trying to evangelize everybody.

Yes.

Well, this was my coming into apologetics time where I was just like, this is the best thing ever. And that book had just come out and I was like the first person to review it on Amazon. And I was just like, this is awesome.

And so I remember interviewing him and thinking, now that's the best. You know, I would just remember at the time thinking, Greg Kokel, man.

That was awesome.

The Greg Kokel, that's right.

Yeah.

But no, I had him on a while back and he, it's funny, he actually, we had a great conversation and then afterwards when we were off air, I'm sure he wouldn't care if I said,.

If he goes, it wasn't that bad, you're pretty good.

You know, I like your confidence, blah, blah, blah. He goes, I just wanna make one correction. You said one thing that you appreciate about our ministry is that we have intentionality. I don't think that's the right word, Eli.

Intentionality has to do with, you know, the directedness of, you know, like, you know, how you direct yourself towards an action where he's like, you wanna say that we do things intentionally or something along those lines.

I was like

Yeah, you're intentional.

Greg Kokel was like, thank you for critiquing me.

I like, I feel like a loser now, you know?

No, you should have been thinking,.

Well, if that's the only thing he can call me on, thank God.

I should have responded. I was like, well, what led you to that conclusion.

To think that I was using the word the way that, you know, I could have just used the tactics.

Oh, yeah.

But go ahead, I interrupted.

Why don't you continue on there?

Just one more thing before you go, Greg.

That's right.

Now, there's a few other ones that, you know, we were talking about how, if you get, if you feel like you've had a good interview, what does that look like? And like you mentioned, there are certain ones where during the interview, the person will say, wow, that's a great question.

Or, you know, that was good. You know, that's really thoughtful or something like that. I remember interviewing J .P. Moreland about his book, The Kingdom Triangle, which I think is a great book because it makes a case for like power, love, and a sound mind, you know?

Having a balanced Christian powerful witness and, you know, loving God with your mind, but also having a spiritual life and also just being well-rounded. Anyway, so I remember saying something, it was either that book or another book he wrote that was similar, like a more popular level version of it.

And I remember summarizing the book. I said, well, it seems to me your book is blah, blah, blah. And he's like, yeah, you know, I couldn't have put it better myself. So I felt like, you know, when you hear things like that, or there was Gary Habermas, I remember him saying like a couple of times, wow, you know, well, that was a really good question, you know?

That was a good Habermas impression.

Hey, we're both from Michigan, you know?

Okay, there you go. That's awesome.

When I argue for the resurrection, no, me and Chad, when we show chatter offline, this is when we do all our apologist impressions, you know, like when so-and-so meets so-and-so, what does it sound like?

Hey, David Wood has,.

I don't know if you've seen David Wood's video when he did an impression of Lee Strobel. It was hilarious.

I gotta find it.

I'll send it to you if you haven't seen it,.

But it's really good.

Yeah, I wanna see that. So yeah, the ones where, you know, and what makes that happen is back to, you know, I thought to myself, well, I did read every single one of your books and write reports on them and highlight them and go back and prepare and, you know, listen to every single one of your lectures and watch all your debates.

So yeah, I know what the content, so I just need to tease out some details here. So that's what makes it good for the interviewee is that they don't feel sort of insulted that you're reading from the card that I got in the post, you know?

Right.

A couple of ones that I enjoyed was like the likes of Michael Behe, Casey Luskin talking about intelligent design. When those interviews happened back in the day, that was when that whole like intelligent design and Richard Dawkins and new atheism was really popping.

So to do those interviews during that time when it felt like when this releases, everyone's going to pounce on it, you know, that was kind of cool because it felt like it was facilitating what people were really looking for at the time.

Right.

And that was kind of cool. There were some ones where I really felt like I stepped in it. There was a one with Norman Geisler where it's like, I felt like I made him mad.

They do call him Storm and Norman.

Oh wow.

That was the nickname.

He would always say in his talks like, oh, for my morning devotions, you know, I read atheist books because it makes me believe in God more, you know, stuff like that. So I was big on like, I want to find out what sort of spiritual disciplines these apologists have because there's more to it than just being brains.

Sure, sure.

And so I'm like, okay, what's your spiritual disciplines? You know, you say you read these atheist books, but what do you really do? He's like, well, I don't forget exactly what he said, but it was like, he was very, I got the impression he was not pleased that I would question that he wasn't telling the truth.

Seriously, I read Richard Dawkins every morning,.

You know, just to strengthen my faith.

Here's my 365 day readings of, you know, the selfish gene or something. But now there was another one, and this goes to show why you need to prepare and not just crowdsource your questions. Probably, like I wasn't very excited about say Elvin Plantinga, because I'm not like a Plantinga fan.

I didn't read a lot of his stuff. I've got a bunch of stuff that I have yet to read. But to me, that was like, whoa, I just scored this big interview coming up. To play it, to be safe here and not botch this, I better ask people to tell me what they want to hear.

Instead of doing this stuff myself and wanting to know, and, oh, you know, here's what I understand. Can you explain this for people? I kind of crowdsource the questions, thinking this is the surefire way to give people what they want.

And I remember having to edit out some of the responses because I said, what would you say, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I don't think I'd say anything. And I'm just like, I'm hanging there. I'm just like, this is why I'll never go live.

Because you ask Elvin Plantinga a question like, hey, you got any good stories? No, not really.

That's what it felt like.

No, well, that's funny because I just recently watched an interview with William Lane Craig. And I think it was in Capturing Christianity. And he was asked an interesting question. And you know how William Lane Craig, he's a very intelligent guy, but he's got kind of this brilliant, cheesy scholar humor.

Does that make sense?

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And so I think the question was, what was the funniest thing that you ever experienced during a debate? And he goes, he thinks about it.

He goes, well, there was this one time, Cameron,.

Where I debated the atheist philosopher, Anthony Flew.

And then he goes to tell this story.

Where his microphone, Anthony Flew's microphone wasn't working and he got very flustered and he started pacing back and forth. And he goes, well, he might as well just call the whole thing off. And Dr. Craig was like, and I was afraid.

That he was going to cancel the debate.

And oh, he, you know how Dr. Craig is.

Oh, he was just so flustered.

Oh boy.

And I thought that was so crazy. And then I'm just like, I was like, this is so awkward because it wasn't that funny, but because of the way he said it, it was hilarious.

Yeah.

So you never know.

He can be very animated and stuff.

It's classic.

Oh man.

So yeah.

Classic WLC.

That's right.

Okay.

So you have Mary Jo Sharp. You have, I was going to say Mary Jane Watson. See Spider-Man, my son loves Spider-Man. So it's on my mind. So Mary Jo Sharp, you had Greg Koukl. You had William Lane Craig.

You had Alvin Plantinga who apparently he's got no cool side stories. He's just, okay.

Well, it was just like, it wasn't exactly that. I think the question was something about what are some great illustrations that you use with your students? I can't really think of any at the moment. That was probably closer to the answer, but the whole thing was awkward.

There was awkward silences and I'm like, stammering and stuttering. I don't know if I edited it out or what, but it was a nightmare.

I have to go back and listen to that one.

Okay.

No, don't. That was kind of an example of how, you know how marathon runners, they say, don't buy a new pair of shoes the day of the marathon. It's felt like I did that, you know, and I'm like suffering through the whole thing.

Wait, were you nervous interviewing him? I mean, Alvin, whether, I know there are people who love Alvin Plantinga. They don't like Alvin Plantinga. I mean, in the world of philosophies, I mean, regardless of what one thinks of him, he's a pretty big deal.

Do you get like nervous when you interview some of these like big names?

You know, before there was, when I started out, everything was audio only. I never did a video interview. So there was a lot of finding rapport just like if you were talking to someone on the phone and many people were, it was like Skype to phone.

I was doing Skype calls at the time. And so some people, and even with video, I think it has to do with some people you can develop a really quick rapport with and others, it's like, man, we're just not connected.

It was like, you could describe the relationship like oil and water. Like, I'm just not the sort of person they think they wanna talk to. Or you can tell that someone just shoved this into their schedule or something.

Now, I don't know. I'm not thinking of anyone in particular.

Can we make this quick, please, Brian? I've got somewhere to be. Can we make this quick?

Yes, it's like, oh boy.

Yeah, but yeah, anyway.

So Alyssa Scott is asking, she says, what was it like interviewing the great Eli from Revealed Apologetics? Did I intimidate you with my... I could be an intimidating Puerto Rican. I don't know. Were you intimidated at all?

No, and that was great. Both me and Chad, we thought it was fun. It was a really easy conversation. That's again, this is one of those ones where you feel like a very quick and easy rapport, and you're really grateful for that because it's almost like you can just start joking and not wonder if this is inappropriate to joke right now or something.

Okay, all right.

So yeah, good.

Just a couple more I'll throw out there. Like, I really think I've enjoyed... Ken Samples has been on the podcast a number of times just throughout the thing. And he's always been one where I'm like, every time I talk to him, I'm like, I love that guy.

You can't fault him in any way. And what I mean by that is like, he's super kind. He has a really good tone. He's very winsome. He's persuasive. He argues well, but he's not argumentative. He knows exactly where he stands theologically.

And he doesn't take a like, this is the only view sort of tone about anything. He's just really well-rounded. You could ask him about anything and he would be able to just walk you through a way to think about that without saying something canned.

And I love that. So if I said, well, who would be a person to look up to? I'd say, well, Ken Samples, look up to him. Let him be your mentor in tone, in demeanor, in his studies, in his value of logic.

And just being like one of those people that, you could send any one of your hurting friends or questioning or angry atheist buddies to go talk to Ken. He'll sort you out.

I love him.

Another one, I'll throw it out there just cause it's different. And I would just wrote down ones that stuck out. Philosopher, Peter Crift. He's a Catholic philosopher from in Boston. He teaches at Boston College or I don't know if he still is, but he's one where everything I read by him or hear him or any lecture by him, and the interview was awesome too.

He is just so interesting and so fun to listen to. And the way he communicates is amazing. And we talked about the Socratic method and why you should learn logic and how do you prepare for apologetics, dialogues and devotion.

And that was like an example of, okay, I don't agree with this guy on various things, but man, I get so much from him. It's amazing to learn so much from someone of a different view in many ways. But yeah, that was cool.

I'll be teaching logic to my eighth graders next year. And one of the textbooks that we have is written by Crift and he's, you're right. He's a very clear communicator and definitely he seems like an enjoyable person to speak with.

If I can think in terms of, you said something about Ken Samples being like a model. I always thought about kind of this Mr. Potato Head apologist. If I can grab little elements of, I love to debate like a James White, but carry myself like a William Lane Craig or a Ken Sample and have this weird mixture of all these different features.

And I think that's one of the benefits of being able to speak with a wide variety of people. You're able to really just learn what you think is good and useful and also things that like, you know what?

I'm not sure I would do it that way. So I think that's super helpful.

I was part of this men's group one time and they said, well, who is the biggest mentor in your life or something? And everybody did this exercise and they all kind of came back and say, well, there's no one person.

It's my dad taught me this and my uncle taught me that. And this teacher taught me this. And so I'm pulling all these elements in order to create this composite mentor or model. And I see that is a way that maybe men or kids are influenced by like father figures or role models in their lives.

But at the same time, you can think of it that way when you're being educated in whatever field you're in. In this case, apologetics, I think we'd need to look at the things that are key features and personality traits or disciplines that people emulate, that there are really good models of that.

And you take that and you say, okay, I'm gonna make that mine. I'm gonna emulate how this person communicates. I'm gonna emulate how this person has devotion in their life. I'm gonna emulate how this person is cool and calm.

I can emulate this person, how they're bold. I'm gonna emulate their study patterns. Oh, so-and-so reads in this way and he has this, how he works through books this way. Cool, I'm gonna do that. And then you're like, yeah, this is, I don't have a mentor.

I've got many mentors and it's sort of a composite. And at the same time, there are ones I look to today and I think, okay, they made this mistake. They made that mistake. I'm not gonna make this mistake.

I'm not gonna make that mistake. And it should be a sobering warning. And there's certain traits where people have. I'm like, well, I'm never gonna interact that like they do. I'm not gonna be anything.

I love everything about them, but this is just a flaw. And instead of like making, shining a light on that in a negative way or trying to gossip to people about it, you could just say, Lord, help me to learn from that.

You know, help me to see that, yeah, that's harming that person's witness. I think it is. So I'm certainly not gonna do that. In a way, hopefully that negative thing can be redeemed because, hey, it kept me from doing it.

It kept me from going down that path, whether it's sin or just a negative way of communicating or stuff like that.

Learning from the Strengths and Weaknesses of Christian Thinkers

Well, that's part of the process, I think, right? When we see negative aspects, I mean, we're learning from that, right? But the beauty of it is, I mean, just mentioning this bringing together of all these things that we can learn from.

I think God set it up that way on purpose. I mean, the family of God is just that, a family of God. We are there for one another. We all function in different capacities with different expertise, right?

I'm not a historian. I'm kind of a more bigger picture, theological, overarching philosophical perspective, whereas there are people who pay very much close attention to a lot of the details that that's where I can learn from.