February 16, 2023 Show with Austin Huggins & Dr. Edward Dalcour on “Examining the New Birth” (Part 1)

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 16th day of February 2023.

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I took the last two days off not only to celebrate my 61st birthday, but also to take care of a lot of much -needed items that are a part of my upcoming free pastor's luncheon.

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The next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon is being held on Thursday, April 13th, 2023, at the

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Church of the Living Christ in Louisville, Pennsylvania. And the three days following, the 14th, 15th, and 16th of April, I'm also having a

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Bible conference at a separate church that is going to be Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

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The two speakers at my pastor's luncheon and the three -day Bible conference are my dear friends going back to the 1990s,

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Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author and Reformed Baptist pastor in Battleground, Washington, and also

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David T. King, who is a co -author of Dr. Webster's, who is a

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Presbyterian pastor, an associate pastor in Katy, Texas. And they are going to be speaking on the very controversial but much -needed theme,

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The Gospel Removed by Rome, Rescued by the Reformers, and Rejected by Modern Evangelicals.

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That's going to be the theme of the three -day Bible conference. The pastor's luncheon theme, or themes, since they are both speaking, the pastor's luncheon theme is going to be directed more towards specifically encouraging and challenging men in the pastoral ministry.

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But this is a free event, or actually both of these events are free. If you come to the pastor's luncheon, you must be a man in ministry leadership, a pastor, an elder, and by the way, folks,

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I think that's the same office, deacon, parachurch leader, whatever position of leadership you have.

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If you're a man, you are welcome to this free pastor's luncheon. Everybody, men, women, and children are invited to the free

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Bible conference. And by the way, if you attend the pastor's luncheon, everyone there is going to be leaving with a very heavy sack of brand -new books, specifically chosen by me from many

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Christian publishers in the United States and the United Kingdom, which these publishers and even new publishers who are just getting on board with this have been doing since the 1990s when my precious late wife,

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Julie, was the one who actually launched these pastor's luncheons. And I have been conducting them even after her going home to Christ in loving memory of her and in tribute and honor to her.

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But if you would like to register for these events, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put luncheon and conference or either one, luncheon or conference, in the subject line.

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And so I hope to hear from many of you, and I hope many of you attend this at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for the luncheon, and Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, for the conference.

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But today, I am thrilled to have two old friends back on the program. In fact, this is the first time that they've ever been on together as guests.

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And not only are they on together as guests today, they are joining us again tomorrow on Friday the 17th of February.

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And I'm speaking of Austin Huggins, a preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries and the pastor of Christ Evangelical Fellowship of Baghdad, Florida, and also

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Edward Delcor, a preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries and the president and director of Department of Christian Defense.

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And both of these brethren are going to be addressing for the next two days, examining the new birth, and we're also going to be promoting a conference that First Love Ministries is having, the very first annual conference by First Love Ministries on the same theme, examining the new birth.

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Well, first of all, let me introduce these dear brethren one at a time. Welcome back to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, Austin Huggins.

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Thank you, dear Chris. It's good to be back. One minor correction to the introduction.

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Christ Evangelical Church has recently merged with First Baptist Church of Baghdad, and so we now have a plurality of elders here at FBC Baghdad as we are moving in a reforming direction here locally in the panhandle of Florida.

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But it is good to be back, and it's good to hear from you again. It's great to hear that because I am a firm believer in the plurality of elders, and in fact, not long ago,

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I had Alexander Strauch on the program to discuss his classic work on biblical eldership, and then

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I had him back again not long after that to discuss the deacons and their biblical role in the

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Scriptures. And so that is a subject near and dear to my heart.

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Now I can mop the beads of sweat that formed on my forehead after I read in your bio that you were the pastor of Christ Evangelical Fellowship.

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Now you're one of the pastors of Christ Evangelical Church of Baghdad, Florida.

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Yeah, of First Baptist Church Baghdad. Oh, so you know long ago and by Christ Evangelical.

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Correct. I think the mentality was they are a 100 -year -old church.

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They've been here a while, so we kept their name, and that seemed to make sense. Oh, of course it makes perfect sense, and there's nothing wrong with that wonderful name either.

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And why don't you tell us more about this wonderful church? Yeah, absolutely.

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And it plays in a lot to the conference that we're getting ready to host here in Milton, Florida.

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But the church here, First Baptist Church Baghdad, gets a lot of attention for its unusual name.

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But it is just a very small historical village located in the larger city of Milton.

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For those who are not familiar with Florida's geography, we're here in Santa Rosa County, one county over from the city of Pensacola.

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I know probably a lot of people are familiar with Mount Zion or Chapel Library, with Pastor Jeff Pollard there in Pensacola, so we'd be about an hour away.

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But here in Milton and in Santa Rosa County, the county extends from the Gulf of Mexico to the south all the way up to the

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Alabama line to the north. And in the entirety of our geography, I think there are really only maybe four or five that I'm aware of Reformed Baptist churches that are very small.

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FBC Baghdad has a long history. They've gone through some very difficult times even in recent years.

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And even coming out of the COVID circumstances, they were in the middle of combating a number of things.

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And our smaller church plant that I had been overseeing for a number of years was utilizing their building.

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They were very gracious to us. They opened up their beautiful facility. And over the year, myself and their pastor got to know one another through a series of providential circumstances that actually ended up in the local newspaper because it was interesting enough.

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The first place I knocked on the door, there was no secretary. A random member showed up from out of town to point me to the parsonage, and he told me to go knock on the door.

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I asked him, I said, well, is that okay for me to interrupt? And he responded, yeah,

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I don't mind, which was very kind of him to offer up someone else's front door to be knocked on.

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But as I knocked on the door, Pastor Stephen, who was the pastor there and was also the

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IT director for the city of Milton, happened to be home, which was a rare occasion in itself.

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And he happened to have missed his time together with his family that they had planned on, which was an accident.

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So as he's sitting on the living room, I'm knocking on the door of his house, wondering if there would be a place for us to come and have our

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Sunday worship services. And that began a really long conversation where we found a lot of mutual convictions and things

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I didn't really expect to hear. And so fast forward a year later, and the church membership led by Pastor Stephen extended a request to merge the congregation, the two congregations together, and that I would retain my status as elder pending formal ordination with them.

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And after getting a lot of pastoral oversight and advice from a number of close friends of mine in ministry, we agreed.

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And it has been October, so it's still pretty new. We're still doing a lot of little things that happen whenever you merge two churches like that together.

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We're going through the 1689 right now. That was the Confession of Faith that Christ of Angel held, too, the

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Second Lenten Baptist Confession, on Wednesday nights. And we have just wrapped up. We're all going through study material on that.

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And FBC Baghdad will be adopting that confession here probably at the next business meeting.

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So a lot of exciting things to look forward to as well as this upcoming conference. Well, please give me and the audience your new website, because I only have your old website for Christ of Angel.

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Yeah, so the church website here is FBCBaghdad .org,

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and it's Baghdad without the H. Okay. And I would encourage you, whenever you're having

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Bible conferences, to make sure you attach the word Florida onto any flyers or social media posts, because that will obviously give people enough courage and encouragement to actually come to the conference rather than thinking that they have to take a flight to the

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Middle East. But that's good to know. And now, also returning to the program, my old friend

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Edward Dalkor, a preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries and the president and director of Department of Christian Defense.

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And it's great to have you back on the show, too, Eddie. Hey, Chris. Delighted to be back.

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I know, man, you and I go back sometime, and I always enjoy doing your show at least a half a dozen times,

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I think, I've done your show. Yes. But it's great to be back. And tell our listeners about the

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Department of Christian Defense. Department of Christian Defense is a apologetic, educational

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Christian hub, wherein we have a search engine now for just a ton of articles on not only atheistic, non -Christian cults, whatever you want to call them.

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You know, I used to call them non -Christian cults, but I'm using Paul's definition now of atheists.

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They're atheistic religions, as Ephesians 2 .12. He calls it pre -converted Ephesians.

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Even though they had a lot of gods, they were still atheists. And so a lot of information on that,

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Mormonism, oneness, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholicism, and all kinds of other issues under general theology.

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Also, we sell literature, we sell our books, and also information on other things,

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ChristianDefense .org. And we've been doing that since, I think, 1999.

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Praise God. And what is the website for that fine organization? ChristianDefense .org.

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Great. And we'll be repeating all of those websites, again, at some point towards the end of the program at least.

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And now, Austin, back to you. Tell us about this exciting conference coming up, the first annual

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First Love Ministries conference on examining the new birth, which also happens to be our topic of discussion today and tomorrow.

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Yeah, Chris, just as a quick snapshot, this is our first annual

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Bible conference where we really want to begin to set the tone for, Lord willing, what will be something that will be not only recurring, but really a rallying point in a county and in a community that has a lot of religion.

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We joke that there's a church here about every 200 feet, but if you come and visit, you'll find that's probably not a joke.

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It's probably fairly accurate. But with all our churches and with all our religion, there's probably very little

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Christ. It is the typical southern dinner on the ground religion.

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It's we go to church because that's the good thing to do. Our grandparents go to church. Our parents, we've gone to this church since we were little kids.

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And so when it comes to the theology of Scripture, actually being biblically literate, knowing the gospel of Christ, being able to even articulate that, all of a sudden you're immediately met with the reality that with all the churches and all the religion here, there's very little knowledge of God.

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So our desire is really to set out with probably what would be the first practical issue that we would like to address, which is the reality of the new birth, the reality, as Christ said, that unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

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I think when you go back to the statement Christ made to Nicodemus in John 3, he said, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.

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Unless a man is born again, he can't enter it. I think when

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Nicodemus was staggered by that statement, the weight of what Christ was saying was landing.

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I think as part of our write -up is, biblical Christians for millennia have asked of their families, their friends, their neighbors, and perfect strangers the all -searching question, are you born again?

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But the phrase, born again, Christian, especially down here, has become so commonplace no one gives it a second thought.

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And that phraseology, or the doctrine of regeneration, has almost been absentmindedly set aside so it doesn't have that weight and that impact it once did.

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As much as it shocked Nicodemus, and Christ intended it to cause him to stop and think, and he responds, how can a man be born again?

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How can, when he is old, enter back into his mother's womb and be born a second time? But the implication is real, that unless that miracle, that wondrous miracle of which our

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Lord speaks, takes place, neither Nicodemus nor any of us, nor anyone in this religious church culture, will see the kingdom, nor will they enter it.

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And so this is going to be the forefront and the spearhead of getting into addressing the true heart of Christianity and true biblical faith in Christ.

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Before I ask Eddie the same question, what specifically, if you know, maybe you don't know yet, what specifically are the sub -titles or sub -themes under the umbrella of examining the new birth that you will be addressing at this conference?

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Yeah, so at the conference we'll be addressing, one, why regeneration matters, because for a number of people they're not really going to understand why are we drilling in on something that they perceive as so fundamental and so basic.

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So Pastor Joe Jackowitz will be opening up with that theme. Throughout Saturday, because it's a three -day conference, the kickoff is

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Friday night, we go all day Saturday, and then it'll end Sunday morning during the worship service.

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But we'll be addressing why regeneration matters, the doctrine of the new birth positively, what is it, by Tom Smith.

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Dr. Dalkor here will be addressing baptismal or decisional regeneration.

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And unlike the poor fellow who got into a fight with him on Facebook over that, he's actually clearly explaining what is not biblical regeneration, and I'm sure he can speak to that in a moment.

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I'll be speaking on regeneration, revival, and awakening, and then we'll close the conference again with the indwelling power of the

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Spirit. We'll have a number of breakout sessions, regeneration and church history, which will take a look at the past 2 ,000 years of church history and put the finger on when did we get this right, when did we get this wrong in history, and what was the fruit, what were the implications of that, that we can read right there in the history books.

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Pastor Steven, my co -elder, will be addressing regeneration and reformation and really speaking to what it has cost him and what it looks like, even for the church here, to go through reformation.

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Dr. Stan Morell will be going through regeneration in pastoral ministries, speaking with the elders, and then

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Dr. Paul Nelson, the author of Presuppositionalism and a patented biochemist, a good friend of ours, one of those men with a 10 -pound brain.

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He's wonderful to have on the mission field, but he'll be addressing regeneration and evangelism methodology.

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Great, and I have to get Paul on the program. I have not yet had him as a guest, and I remember years ago we were going to be discussing, we had something planned out to discuss presuppositionalism on this program, and somehow the interview fell through.

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It was so long ago I can't remember why, but I have got to make it a point to reach out to him again and have him on the show, a very important subject and also a very highly contested and debated subject, even amongst our

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Reformed brethren. Two of my heroes of the faith were not presuppositionalists,

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R .C. Sproul and John Gerstner, who actually wrote a book on apologetics that sought in part to refute presuppositionalism, but of course they are both presuppositionalists now.

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So even though our dear brother Austin stole your thunder as far as your participation in the conference,

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Eddie, do you have anything to add as far as your involvement in the conference? Yeah, I just came there because there was going to be a lot of food.

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Actually, I have been involved with First Love Publications, First Love Ministries and with Austin for quite a number of years actually.

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In fact, I just got back from Nepal a few months ago, and I don't know if you remember hearing about that airplane that crashed, the

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Yeti airline in Nepal. What's interesting, when I was up there, and it was a

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Grace Bible University, this is one of the seminaries that's under the whole purview of First Love Ministries.

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It's a free seminary, and we really are implementing that into a lot of different nations, countries that can't afford conventional seminaries.

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But I went up there. We did a pastor conference. Two hundred pastors came, and I was with Paul Nelson and another speaker.

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But we were on that same airline, Yeti airline, the same route, a car, a car to Kathmandu, the same plane, the same route, and the same time.

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We had a 10 o 'clock flight. I was thinking about that little flight I think a month before the whole

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Nepal trip. I got to go on that little plane, but it was very successful. Over 200 pastors showed up.

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But this conference, to reiterate what Austin already said, super important because I find that the average

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Christian, too many of them, I don't like to use the word most, but too many of them have such a defective view when it comes to regeneration, or they have a mushy view combining it with justification.

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They don't know the differences, too many. They're not that interested in knowing the differences.

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And one of those things, just don't give me doctrine, just give me Jesus kind of mentality.

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So it's very important that we define the doctrines, that we define what regeneration is and, as I'll be speaking on, what regeneration is not.

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And what it is, it's God's work alone. What it's not is your participation. So get off the cross.

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We don't climb on the cross to help Christ make us born again or justified.

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So I'll be hitting the topics of baptismal and something else, baptismal regeneration, baptismal justification, even decisional regeneration

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I'm going to touch on. And that's when your decision is the very means of regeneration.

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So this conference is very important. Each of us has a very important topic.

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And I just want to make, lastly, this note, because Austin quoted it in John 3.

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It's very interesting in John 3, one of a few interviews that Jesus had in the

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Gospel of John with Nicodemus on this one. Christ doesn't waste time in friendship evangelism.

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He doesn't quote Jeremiah 29 -11 to try to win Nicodemus' affection and make

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God a great God. He doesn't do any of that. He doesn't waste time.

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He gets right to the marrow of the Gospel. You must be born again. In verse 3, unless someone's born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, which is really interesting because from verses 1 through 8, and this is really the mainstream of our conference here, the new birth, verses 1 through 8 of chapter 3, there is no commandment to be born again.

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Rather, it's a statement of fact. Jesus' reply was obscure, it was sudden, and he didn't hesitate to get right to the marrow of the

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Gospel. Today we hesitate. I have this rule. Whatever kind of dialogue you're having on salvation, with unbelievers, on these kind of issues when you're evangelizing, don't waste time.

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Don't waste time on all these other extraneous things. Get right to it. That's what Jesus did.

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You must be born again. Unless someone's born again, you can't see the kingdom of God. And Jesus was definitive in this prologue of John in his words, defining who he is, defining his preexistence, defining that he's

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God the Son, defining that another person sent him, God the Father. So he's also showing the agent of regeneration.

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So I think this conference particularly is very important because we will define, all of the speakers, all of us will define what regeneration is and what it's not.

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So I'm excited about doing this, and particularly my topic, Decisional Regeneration, which probably infects most of the church in altar calls and sinner's prayer.

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I will touch on the sinner's prayer, and I'll explain what that is. And I think it's very important because it seems, just like the doctrine of the

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Trinity and other issues, too many Christians have not been exposed to good theology or adequate teaching on these kind of subjects.

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So I'm excited about doing this conference. Well, hearing you talk about it gets me even more excited about this conference.

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I hope I can attend. I can't guarantee it because I have so many things going on, but I would love to be there.

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And I'm sure that neither of my guests will mind if I plug a booklet by another ministry because I know that they both love this ministry.

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I'm speaking of Chapel Library, a ministry of Mount Zion Bible Church in Pensacola, Florida.

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The booklet I want to plug is Decisional Regeneration by James E.

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Adams, not to be confused with the late J. Adams, who is in heaven with our

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Lord. But this is an excellent book. I've been giving out this booklet for decades on decisional regeneration.

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And I can remember one of the most appalling quotes that Brother Adams includes in the booklet by Jack Hiles, where he is one of the kings of decisional regeneration.

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And, in fact, there is even some who are not themselves independent fundamentalist

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Baptists, and they are looking from the outside in. They may think that group of folks is all the same, but they're not.

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They have infighting even over this issue of decisional regeneration. There are some that agree with Reformed Christians, even if they're not themselves

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Calvinists, that you must repent. But the quote by Jack Hiles, and I don't have it in front of me, but I'm basically giving the general content of it.

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He was warning his students, seminary students or Bible students,

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I should say, pastoral students, those training for the pastoral ministry.

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He was warning them never to use words in sermons like, my final point is, or in conclusion, he said, that will give your hearers time to dig in their heels and resist the invitation.

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You've got to sneak up behind them and catch them unexpectedly to hear your invitation to come forward to receive

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Christ. So, basically, Hiles was teaching people in their pastoral training, he was teaching them to trick people into heaven.

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And that boggles my mind. The church is filled with enough false converts as it is.

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We want to trick more to be added to the ranks of our churches with this methodology?

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I mean, absolutely insane. Anyway, if you want to go to chapellibrary .org, chapellibrary .org,

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and in the search engine type in decisional regeneration, you will find out how you can order this extremely inexpensive booklet.

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Everything at Chapel Library is extremely inexpensive. And they reprint and even publish for the first time wonderful, wonderful helps to those of us in the kingdom.

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And I'm sure both of you would agree with my assessment of Chapel Library. Yeah, they're so inexpensive,

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I think they're free, actually. And you can continue to shamelessly plug

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Chapel Library as often as you will. They're dear brothers of ours, and as a matter of fact, they're going to be supplying literature for this conference alongside

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First Love publications, which is kind of our standard practice even in our conferences we host overseas in the mission field.

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Chapel usually assists us, and so they're very precious and dear brothers to us.

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And they've also really, really improved the covers of their tracts and booklets. They're much more attractive with full -color illustrations and photographs and so forth.

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They've come a long way since I first discovered them in the 80s. But we are going to our first break right now.

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If you have a question for Austin Huggins or Eddie Dalcor on our discussion of examining the new birth, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

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On a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd. The G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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The Prince of Preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, once said, Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial.

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Grace and peace to all the Iron Sharpens Iron listeners. This is Tony with thestandardbeardcare .com

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That's right, thestandardbeardcare .com is a Christ -exalting, better -known, and simple name in beard care.

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So if you have a beard, know a guy with a beard, or ladies if you're married to a man with a beard, head over to thestandardbeardcare .com

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Check out the vast array of all -natural, hand -crafted products to make that beard scriptural, manly, and beneficial.

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And when you do so, you will help to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. When you use the promo code

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So head over to thestandardbeardcare .com, where the standard is the standard.

37:22

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

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No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous

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French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

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Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

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For more details on Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio praise

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God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the

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Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager,

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And don't forget, folks, royaldiadem .com is still offering

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for $100 or more, whether you're purchasing something that they already have in stock at royaldiadem .com

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We have no idea when royaldiadem .com is pulling the plug on this amazing offer, so I'm urging you please to go to royaldiadem .com

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as soon as possible, it's royaldiadem .com, and either purchase jewelry that they have in stock or start the process of having your own custom design piece of jewelry created, whether it be, for instance, an engagement ring, or perhaps you want to turn your church logo, your parachurch ministry logo, your denomination logo, your seminary logo, or whatever your imagination can conjure up.

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quickly before they end this offer. Mention Iron Trump and Zion Radio, and we will get 100 % of the profits.

42:49

We are now back with my guests today, Austin Huggins and Edward Delcor.

42:55

They are two speakers at the Examining the New Birth Conference, the first annual conference of First Love Ministries in Milton, Florida.

43:03

And I understand, Edward Delcor, you want to talk about, before we go into the theme of Examining the

43:09

New Birth, you wanted to discuss something about your overseas mission trips.

43:16

Yeah, I'll say a few words, then I'll defer to Austin. One very, very important aspect of this ministry is our overseas ministry.

43:27

We have a circuit of churches, not only in Africa, but in Asia as well, particularly the

43:33

Philippines, in which we yearly, and I know Austin travels to several of them, which he'll tell you about, where we do teachings.

43:42

We actually go out there and we do not only conferences, but we give away free books. First Love Publication is an enormously productive ministry in that we get apologetic theological books based on substantive doctrine, on essential doctrines, and basic apologetics.

44:03

We give them to pastors who have congregations that don't have access to Internet.

44:11

They don't have libraries of theological books and all these things. And since they're not equipped in this area, they're a target for all the other non -Christian groups out there, whether it's

44:22

Rome or the LDS Church. Because if we don't tell them, somebody else will. So it's very important, as I see it,

44:29

First Love Publication, First Love Ministry, in our international ministries, in terms of preaching the gospel, but educating

44:36

Christians, equipping them to have an accurate understanding of basic gospel, to have an accurate understanding of groups that attack

44:46

Christianity. As we know out here, Chris, so many

44:51

Christians don't know the difference between Roman Catholics and Protestants. In fact, they don't know why they're a Protestant.

44:57

In fact, they'll say, well, I'm not a Protestant, I'm a Trinitarian. I mean, I've heard that before, or I'm a

45:02

Baptist or something. But the fact of the matter is, we have to explain the differences.

45:07

We have to be definitive in our theology. And we take this message to these people overseas, who have under a junior high education in the

45:18

Bible, and they have really bad views because they've just never been taught. So we disambiguate all that.

45:24

And I will say one more point. Our trip, and Austin will tell you more about this, our upcoming trip,

45:30

Chris, in Philippines, which we try to do every year because our pandemic slowed it.

45:35

We go to a place called Baguio, and they have a radio station. Before we came, and you know

45:41

Joe Jockowitz, the expert in radio, but before we came, they were playing

45:47

Christian country music because they love country music. And, you know, cool, country music.

45:53

But they had no theological content. What we did, as Joe arranged it, we came in and we revamped the time that we were there.

46:04

What we did, Chris, the men on our team, we would actually do hours of radio, but on theological topics, dealing with some of the non -Christian groups that attack the deity of Christ, dealing with Rome, dealing with moral issues.

46:19

We would get texts and call -ins, texts and call -ins of people asking questions, all kinds of questions.

46:27

So we would take this opportunity in Baguio to teach, teach theology, teach apologetics, refute bad doctrine to a huge amount of people who normally would just hear country music.

46:41

So our trip in Baguio is very significant, very productive. So I think one of the best things about First Love Ministries is our overseas work.

46:51

And with that, I'll let Austin also express some of the details in this ministry.

46:58

Yeah, I appreciate that, Dr. Dalkor. I mean, you're drawing attention to some things that are pretty central line in terms of what makes

47:07

First Love Ministries, First Love Ministries, that I don't think probably are as visible to everyone else.

47:13

Most people, when they think First Love, they think of, they either know us from G3, where we give away a significant amount of books to the attendees there, or they are people who come to our website monthly, and they'll order a free book.

47:28

We will mail it free. Even we'll pay postage, and we'll make sure it arrives on your doorstep, books that are in the doctrinal category, devotional, apologetic, evangelistic, even pastoral.

47:42

And that's just been an aspect of the ministry, which is freely we receive, freely give.

47:48

But the overseas aspect, the overseas conferences, the overseas missionary radio, the overseas investment long term that we make is probably the biggest heartbeat in my mind that makes

48:01

First Love the fellowship of brothers that it is, and the fellowship of churches working together that it is.

48:08

I mean, if you could imagine, it's like Charles Spurgeon once said, a lie has a way of running around the globe while truth is still putting on its shoes.

48:20

And I think you see that definitely in the third world. That's a great line, and I've got to remember that.

48:27

Well, it's true. How often do we clear our voice and stand up and get ready to clarify a significant truth, only to find out that the enemy has swept in, and false teachers have swept in, and there are three semesters into their nonsense before we get there.

48:44

I think the hardest thing in the world, and you were actually saying this, Chris, before we got into the program about that southern preacher who made you laugh whenever you spoke to him.

48:57

He said something to the effect of, you all have it easy up there in New York. You've just got to get people saved.

49:03

Down here, we have to get people lost first, and then we can get them saved.

49:11

I thought that was— And of course, it's funnier when he's saying it like this. Probably.

49:19

But he's right in the sense, you know, as one theologian,

49:25

I won't necessarily quote him, I don't agree with everything he said, but he was right when he said that it seems we're in a day and age where in order to give people

49:35

Christianity, you first have to appear to take away their Christianity.

49:42

When you come in with sound doctrine, there's so much that has already been written on the blackboard of people's minds, that by the time you get there, you have a great difficulty erasing the layers of old chalk.

49:55

And even when you go to write something new, it's not as crisp as if you had gotten there first.

50:01

In the third world, these NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, health, wealth, prosperity, false gospel movements, they're incredible in terms of their quote -unquote missionary endeavors.

50:14

One time, me and Alcor were down in the Philippines on the southern island of Mindanao, which has a large

50:23

Muslim population, and we left the main city, Cagayan de Oro, and began to travel south, and we skirted around the autonomous

50:33

Muslim region of Mindanao. And this was just a few weeks before the

50:38

Marawai fighters, the ISIS sympathizers, got into a shootout in a localized war with the

50:45

Philippine army, and Duterte ended up shutting the island down and declaring martial law, just giving you a snapshot of the instability of this region.

50:55

So we skirted the coast on the left, we went around, we came down into a region called Lanao del

51:01

Norte, Maranding, and in there, it was jungle. It was old -school

51:06

Philippines, jungle. And on the side of the road, in the middle of nowhere, you see this white

51:13

Mormon missionary dressed in the same clothes he does when he comes knocking on your door, walking on the side of the road, in the middle of third -world nowhere.

51:24

And I turned, and Alcor happened to be with me, I looked over at him, and I said, it's incredible when you think of the zeal these men have for a lie.

51:35

You know, the lies that are out there in the third world need to be combated.

51:42

And when we have these long -term relationships with these churches, we're talking about faithful, serious, godly, evangelical, doctrinally sound local pastors who want to address these issues locally in their environment.

51:58

They want to stand up and have a voice and really speak and preach and exhort against these things.

52:06

And really, our role is a support role. You know, there are brethren whose missionary endeavors are properly tip of the spear in many ways, and ours is coming underneath the authority of the local church and supporting them in such a way where, you know, if one of these pastors were to try and order a book online and have it delivered, you know, it may be $15 for the book itself.

52:35

Over $35, probably more now, to get it shipped across the pond to where they're at, the shipping charge is outrageous.

52:42

And once you get up to $50 -plus for a book, I mean, that's almost a month's pay for some of these guys.

52:49

You know, Charles Spurgeon talked about ministers that have a slender library. Well, for the vast majority of these guys, they're working with far less of the resources that we have become accustomed to as ministers here in the

53:04

West. So we'll go. In fact, we have to pick up where you left off there because we have to go to our midway break right now. And just don't forget where you left off there.

53:12

I'll try. And if anybody has any questions, send them to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

53:19

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

53:25

Don't go away. We'll be right back right after these messages from our sponsors. ♪

53:34

Yeah, back together again. ♪

53:44

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

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On a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Joining Chris Armstrong's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

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Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We're devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

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The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial.

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Grace and peace to all the Iron Sharpens Iron listeners. This is Tony with thestandardbeardcare .com.

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So head over to thestandardbeardcare .com, where the standard is the standard.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

59:43

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

59:52

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

01:00:02

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

01:00:10

Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

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Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

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Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

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Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

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Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

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Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

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That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

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That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

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Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and also the host of the

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Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly

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Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the

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From Keech's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the

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Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking Biblical truth.

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

01:03:01

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Ivineo and thanks for listening. If you love

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

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Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

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To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of Biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

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You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

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Chris Armisen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing 6th grade.

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Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

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Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

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I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s. And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

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That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

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God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

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Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. This is

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Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

01:10:22

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

01:10:36

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01:10:46

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01:10:54

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

01:11:00

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01:13:21

Before I return to my guests today, Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor, I have some very important announcements to make.

01:13:29

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01:16:34

So send me an email to chrisorenson at gmail .com. That's also the email address where you could send in a question for Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor on examining the new birth, chrisorenson at gmail .com.

01:16:49

And we do have a listener who has a question.

01:16:57

His name is Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania. He is responding to something he heard

01:17:04

Eddie Delcor say earlier. And he says,

01:17:10

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I thought I heard earlier Eddie say that the gospel is not a command.

01:17:19

I've heard Chris Orenson, the host of the program, say that it is a command, while not violating the fact that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone.

01:17:28

This has nothing to do with works. But if we go to 2 Thessalonians 1, and if we go to verse 5, this is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment, so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering.

01:17:48

For after all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted along with us, when the

01:18:01

Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know

01:18:09

God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

01:18:14

Can you please explain where you are coming from in light of this text? So that was for Eddie first.

01:18:23

Eddie? Eddie, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Sorry, I was muted.

01:18:31

Yeah, I never said the gospel wasn't the command. What I said was in reference to John 3, being born again, being regenerated.

01:18:39

And my point was what I said, not the gospel, what I said between verses 1 and 8, there's no command of Jesus to be born again, because man has no ability to make himself born again.

01:18:56

So that's what I said. There's no imperative verbs from verses 1 through 8 in John 3 to be born again.

01:19:04

I mean, yeah, to be born again, not to preach the gospel. So I just want the listener to be clear on what

01:19:12

I actually said. Well, actually, I believe because of the verse that the guest, not the guest, the listener in Perry County was quoting, it's not the command to preach the gospel, that the gospel itself is a command, because it's saying in 2

01:19:31

Thessalonians 1 that we have to obey the gospel. Well, it says that it's talking about the retribution towards those who do not know

01:19:39

God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord. Right, and my point was regeneration, not the gospel.

01:19:48

My point was Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus, he didn't command Nicodemus to be born again.

01:19:56

It was a statement of fact. There's no imperative verbs between verses 1 and 8. I never even mentioned the gospel there.

01:20:04

Right, right, okay. Well, that was probably just a misunderstanding. Yeah, that had to do with regeneration, because it's not an invitation.

01:20:12

It's not a command, but rather Jesus says it's a necessity. It's a necessary present fact, you must be born again.

01:20:22

Yes, and I recall our listener, when he was saying that I was saying that the gospel is a command,

01:20:30

I remember being attacked, and I love my conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran brethren, not to be confused with the

01:20:39

Lutheran brethren, but I was attacked pretty seriously by a couple, at least,

01:20:47

Lutherans who were saying that I was denying the gospel and adding works, righteousness to salvation by calling the gospel a command, and that's not at all what

01:20:58

I was saying. But anyway, Austin, do you have anything to follow up with that? Just to say for clarity,

01:21:05

I know some of our people are listening, but the command is to believe the gospel, and we are to obey the call to believe upon the message of the gospel.

01:21:19

But the miracle of regeneration to which we are called to is an act that God alone can do.

01:21:25

And so the distinguishing mark there is, yes, the gospel is a command to be obeyed in the sense we are to believe it, but we are never commanded to regenerate ourselves.

01:21:34

That is a work of God. We are to go to him believing that he alone can. Yes, we cannot regenerate ourselves.

01:21:40

In fact, we cannot even please God at all unless we are first regenerate, and that would include having saving faith.

01:21:49

If saving faith pleases God, and Romans 8 says that men cannot please

01:21:55

God in the flesh, obviously we cannot lift up a saving faith to God that is being conjured up from our cold, dead, stony heart.

01:22:08

It has to be coming from a new heart that Jesus himself has given us, after we are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit.

01:22:16

But anyway, I heard somebody about to say something. Oh, I was just going to say this is the reason why this conference is so important, so we can actually define what regeneration is and what it's not, and its relationship to believing, its relationship to faith.

01:22:32

Exactly. Belief and faith, obedience, repent, all that is the result of regeneration.

01:22:38

The first act that God does. Go ahead. The first act that God does is regeneration.

01:22:44

Actually, the term regeneration is actually used in two places, in Matthew 19, 28, and Titus 3, 5.

01:22:51

But very interesting, Chris. Biblical authors use different terms to define the same act, the same act of God alone.

01:23:01

Jesus uses literally born above, whereas John uses born of God, like in John 1, 13 and 1

01:23:11

John 5, 1. Paul's description is make alive. That's the phrase

01:23:17

Paul likes to use. While you were dead, you were made alive. So it's really interesting some of the different words and phrases that the biblical authors use, and Peter uses up -born, translated born again, all meaning the same thing, regeneration, the work of God alone.

01:23:38

I think, Dalkor, you brought out a good point in one of our recent conversations just with each other that oftentimes justification anymore seems to be confused with regeneration.

01:23:52

So there is a disparity or dissonance in understanding between the words people are using and what they're actually making reference to theologically.

01:24:02

Obviously, in justification, our righteousness sits outside of ourselves in Christ, in his finished work.

01:24:09

We're justified and legally declared righteous, as though we had never sinned, not on account of ourselves or anything in us, but resting solely upon Christ and his perfect work.

01:24:21

Regeneration, this remarkable miracle where God does something in us, like you referenced there,

01:24:29

Paul's writing, making us alive, causing us to be born anothen, born from above, born again.

01:24:36

This is something that changes the heart, changes the mind, opens the eyes in such a way that we can sing

01:24:45

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now

01:24:51

I'm found, once blind, but now I see. And this miracle of regeneration is often either misunderstood or left out of the discussion in favor of only seeing the important discussion of justification.

01:25:08

But without regeneration, we don't have a clear picture of the new covenant. We don't have a clear picture of salvation.

01:25:14

There's a massive loss in what Christ is speaking to here.

01:25:21

That's a very good point. Don't you think there has to be a clear differentiation between the truth that you both uttered, that we do not participate in our regeneration, we do not participate in our salvation, and yet we are clear recipients of it, and there are those that will take the truth that you just said to the extreme of promoting a heresy that all of us on this program reject vociferously, that you're born again, and as long as that decision, that altar call, or whatever you may call it, that first coming to Christ has occurred, and of course we would say that they didn't come to Christ, but those that had made some kind of a prayer or an utterance that they've come to Christ and they're being told that you're in, you have a one -way ticket to heaven now, and if the person who is being declared a truly born -again believer, the very next hour leaves that church or that tent meeting or wherever he is, or even in front of his television set watching a televangelist, that person could become a cross -dressing serial killer and remain that way for the rest of his life, which could be decades, and if somebody hears of his death and someone says, oh, that poor soul is in torment for sure, and somebody will say, oh no,

01:27:11

I was there when he raised his hand. Well, you know,

01:27:16

Chris, that's exactly the issue that we're having this conference to address, what you're putting forward.

01:27:22

I want to give this to Dalkor to really drill in on some key areas. I'll just say this.

01:27:29

It's exactly this misunderstanding. You know, for instance, it says in the Scripture, it is

01:27:34

God working in you both to will and to do for his goodwill and pleasure. You know, there is a place where God is, in essence, energizing us to be able to walk in this gospel call that he's called us.

01:27:49

We cannot do it in our own strength, but in the final analysis, you will know a tree by its fruit, and a life that fundamentally contradicts the message it preaches in terms of this gospel,

01:28:03

Paul makes it very clear. Test yourself to see if you be in the faith.

01:28:09

We are to work it out with fear and trembling. If God has not first worked in the miracle of regeneration, there is no indwelling power of the

01:28:19

Holy Spirit, where it says in Romans 8, the Spirit which raised Christ from the dead dwelling in you.

01:28:25

If that's a non -reality, then your life will reflect that non -reality. Christ is warning us.

01:28:33

There will be many on that day that say, Lord, Lord, did we not do many wonderful works in your name?

01:28:38

And so on. He says, depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you. So, yeah, this is exactly the thing that we're hitting against, but Dr.

01:28:46

Dalkor, if you want to take it into more finer specificity. Yeah, I think regeneration is more clear.

01:28:54

It seems majority of the church, it really does seem this way that the majority of the church sees regeneration as an afterthought to your decision.

01:29:04

They see regeneration being born again as a result of something that you did. What did you do?

01:29:10

You had faith. You did the faith act. Now God is pleased and he makes you alive because of that.

01:29:16

But biblically, that is a inverted principle. That is a backwards principle. So I think when you're discussing regeneration, you have to discuss man's spiritual state.

01:29:29

Because if you don't understand man's spiritual state, you'll never understand election. You'll never understand irresistible grace.

01:29:36

And you'll think the election is conditional. You'll never understand even perseverance or preservation of the saints if you don't understand the first and very underlying principle of man's spiritual state before he was saved, before he was regenerate.

01:29:55

Simply put, Paul defines him as dead, not spiritually sick or terminally ill, but he's actually dead.

01:30:04

In fact, in Ephesians 2, Paul talks about how he was dead. Austin mentioned the spirit that's in us.

01:30:10

Very interesting in Philippians 2 when the apostle says, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, it's

01:30:20

God working in you, energitas or energeo. It's a term where we get the word energized.

01:30:27

It's the participle for working, and then it's intensified by the preposition in, in working or energized.

01:30:35

Just as we are energized by God to will and work according to his good pleasure, the unregenerate, says

01:30:44

Paul in Ephesians chapter 2, he says formally when you were unsaved, you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now, and here's that verb, energitas, who is now energizing the sons of disobedience.

01:31:03

So even the non -regenerate people have a spirit that's energizing them as we have

01:31:08

God the spirit energizing us. So if you understand that we're actually dead and we have zero ability to do anything spiritually good before God, then you can,

01:31:21

I think, a Christian of course, you can conceive or at least conceptualize that regeneration is the work of God alone.

01:31:29

It's not the work of man. It's not the work of God and man. It's God alone. Paul says there's nobody seeking after God.

01:31:38

No one's seeking out for God. Nobody. There's no one righteous, not even good. No one is even good.

01:31:45

So if the regeneration is of God alone, that means that faith would have to come after regeneration as the result.

01:31:55

That gift, which is a gift of God, is the result. He gave the gift of faith as a result of being regenerated, you believe.

01:32:03

Not the other way around because dead people don't believe. Dead people are at enmity, says

01:32:09

Paul, ecthros. They're at enmity with God. There's nothing good in them, and they have no ability.

01:32:15

Chris quoted Romans 7 and 8. It talks about the mind that's linguistically possessed by the flesh.

01:32:23

And Paul says it's hostile, that same verb there, ecthro. It's hostile toward God. It doesn't subject itself to the law of God.

01:32:31

Paul says it's not even able, or literally, it has no ability. So it's not a choice dealing with the unregenerate man.

01:32:41

Paul says they have no ability, and in verse 8 of chapter 8, and those who are in the flesh, unbelievers, have no ability.

01:32:49

You have that same phrase there, no ability to please God. So if that's true, you're not going to have faith.

01:32:58

You don't have the ability to have faith. You don't have a little teeny bit of righteousness inside you. I think

01:33:04

Luther said, when Jesus said the flesh profits nothing, Luther said, well, that nothing is not a little bit of something.

01:33:12

It's nothing. And if you have the ability to believe, aside from being regenerated, then the flesh profits something because that's a good thing.

01:33:23

And you do have the ability to please God if that were true. But Paul says, no, that's not true.

01:33:28

And I'll sum it up in 847 of Jesus' argument with the unbelievers.

01:33:35

He says the one who hears the words of God, the one who is God, who belongs to God, hears the words of God.

01:33:44

So only if you belong to God, you can hear the words of God. That's why I'm just so adamantly theologically against this whole idea, and we can explain in the next segment, of a sinner's prayer because there's four main points

01:33:56

I see that is antithetical to the biblical position on not only on regeneration but just man's ability.

01:34:03

And could you please define what it means to be dead spiritually?

01:34:10

I could vividly remember a hilarious moment during a debate that I organized in the 1990s,

01:34:18

I'm almost certain, between my friend Dr. James R. White and another friend of mine who is an independent fundamentalist

01:34:26

Baptist and very anti -Calvinist. And during this debate,

01:34:32

Dr. White's fundamentalist opponent said, James White believes that men are so dead, they are so dead that they have to be born again before that they can even believe.

01:34:51

And James White just very calmly said, after a pause of silence, Brother, could you define what so dead means?

01:35:01

Are there different kinds of dead? But the person who is responding and recoiling in horror to the notion that we teach that men are spiritually dead, because the

01:35:15

Bible teaches that, but they think that means we are trying to say that humans make no choices, they don't make decisions, everything is like programmed into their brain like a robot would be according to the

01:35:34

Calvinist view, according to their description of the Calvinist view. And therefore, they have a total misunderstanding of what we're saying.

01:35:45

I very often have heard people object to Calvinism, and they think that we are saying people literally go deaf when somebody is preaching to them, unless they're first born again.

01:35:57

But if you could define being spiritually dead, and maybe, Austin, you could start this time.

01:36:04

The word, as Paul, in Ephesians, Colossians, when he uses these kind of terms, particularly in Ephesians 2, actually the phrase reads, there's a present tense participle here, it's very interesting, it literally says, you being dead.

01:36:21

Antos, you being dead. The word dead, not crossed, is the normal word for a corpse.

01:36:28

I've heard it defined as when you're witnessing to unregenerate, you're literally talking to zombies.

01:36:34

I would take it further, because a zombie can walk around. A zombie can do things, he can walk around.

01:36:41

And he has a choice, because he wants to eat you or kill you or something. So that's not a great description,

01:36:47

I don't think, of necros, the term Paul uses. Simple dimple, you're dead. You're dead in your sins.

01:36:54

And you formally, this is a good description of total inability. I look at it synonymously with dead, because a corpse has total inability for life.

01:37:03

He can't do anything. Look, if you were the doctor and you had the serum and you gave it to the corpse, he can't take it and shoot himself.

01:37:10

He's dead. That's how Paul defines the unregenerate person. But he says they have a spirit inside them who's energizing them, but he calls them sons of disobedience.

01:37:19

But he says we too, he puts himself in that category in verse 3 of Ephesians 2. He said we formerly lived like this.

01:37:24

That's what we did. Sons of disobedience, children of wrath. That's Paul's description.

01:37:32

And the other point you made was really good, because people misrepresent Calvinism or the reform or the doctrines of grace and the total inability of men.

01:37:42

They mischaracterize it by saying, well, you guys deny that men have choices.

01:37:50

And, of course, the fact of the matter is, yeah, men have choices. No one's denying that men have choices.

01:37:58

But the fact of the matter is, as Jesus pointed out, if you're spiritually dead, the choices you make are dictated by your nature of which you are.

01:38:09

You're a child of wrath. Paul says you don't do anything good. You make choices all day long.

01:38:14

But you also make a choice not to believe. You live under that choice not to believe because you're not able to.

01:38:22

So we don't say no one has choices. Certainly Paul made a choice to follow

01:38:28

Christ. No one denies that he made a choice. He made a choice. But the question is,

01:38:33

Chris, why did the apostle make a choice?

01:38:39

In fact, we'll pick up right after that when we return from our final break. It's a lot more brief than the last breaks, folks.

01:38:46

If you have a question, send it immediately because we are rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:38:53

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

01:39:15

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus. Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

01:44:53

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

01:45:07

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

01:45:14

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

01:45:21

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

01:45:30

That's l -i -y -f -c dot org. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

01:45:47

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

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No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous

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Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan. All his work is done by hand, from the cutting, to the pleating of corners, to the perimeter stitching.

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Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors, like the turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my

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Nestle All -in -28th edition with a navy blue goatskin inside liner, and the electric blue goatskin from a

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French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

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Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

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For more details on post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to PTLBibleRebinding .com

01:47:05

That's PTLBibleRebinding .com I'm Arthur Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Dan Lubenick of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Reverend Buzz Taylor, author of God's Lawson, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington, founder of the ministry

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Christian Resources, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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I'm Pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:49:16

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

01:49:23

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio financially.

01:49:32

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

01:49:45

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

01:49:51

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

01:50:14

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

01:50:22

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

01:50:28

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

01:50:35

Welcome back. And this is the final segment of today's interview. Don't forget we have

01:50:41

Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor returning tomorrow for Part 2 of this discussion.

01:50:47

So don't be so upset if your question is not read today. We have two more hours to go tomorrow.

01:50:52

I just want to remind you also, before we go off the air, that there is an upcoming conference that both my guests are involved in.

01:51:00

It is the first annual First Love Ministries Conference being held March 3rd through the 5th at the

01:51:07

First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida. And not only are my two guests on the roster, but Joe Jackalitz, the founder and president of First Love Ministries and First Love Radio, which actually live -streams this program, and Tom Smith and many others are a part of the roster.

01:51:26

For more details, go to firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org. And I believe,

01:51:31

Eddie, you were saying something very important about regeneration before we went to the break and I had to cut you off.

01:51:38

Was that you that was cut off in mid -sentence there? Oh, I was just...

01:51:44

To get an accurate understanding about regeneration, one has to be at least familiar with the basic doctrine of total depravity or understanding where man was before he was saved.

01:51:55

Then you would have a better understanding that it is God alone who regenerates and you would have a better understanding that you had no ability to have faith to do anything spiritually good before God.

01:52:06

So regeneration would precede faith. Regeneration, faith, obedience, et cetera. All those acts of man would be the result of regeneration, not the cause.

01:52:16

And a complaint I have from non -Reformed Christians is that they wrongly think that when we say regeneration precedes faith, according to our understanding of the

01:52:29

Ordo Salutis, they think that we're saying by that that there are people who are born again who walk around for months, maybe years, maybe decades as a born -again person without any faith or any demonstration of fruits that they are saved.

01:52:50

And then all of a sudden God zaps them at some point later on where they have faith. We're not saying that at all.

01:52:57

I mean, isn't belief an immediate fruit of genuine regeneration?

01:53:03

In fact, repentance and faith. Yeah, Scripture indicates nowhere that one could be regenerated and they wait a long time.

01:53:11

I mean, particularly the Ordo Salutis, it indicates these things are momentary.

01:53:17

Not a chronological order necessarily, but a logical order from the first act that God does with those five verbs in Romans chapter 8.

01:53:26

But you know what, that's what Scripture says. Jesus said in John 6, 37, all that the Father gives to me, he says, they will come.

01:53:34

And the future indicative there, hexa, they will come. So there's not a gap time. It's momentary.

01:53:40

Because when you're regenerated, the fact is your heart has changed, your will has changed, and you believe that's the result.

01:53:46

And you believe instantaneously. Right. And Austin, I've heard a false understanding of the new birth by many professing evangelicals.

01:53:58

They don't necessarily use these words, but they treat the subject in this manner where when you're born again, really all you're getting from God is a clean slate to start fresh.

01:54:13

And there is no concept of a new heart, a transformation taking place.

01:54:21

And of course, Rome makes in some ways a similar mistake and fatal error, but it has a lot of differences.

01:54:32

Rome thinks that our sanctification and our justification are nearly the same thing, but they would agree that when a person is regenerated, they're really getting a clean slate, and they have to maintain that salvation through obeying the ceremonial law of Rome and doing good deeds, going to confession.

01:55:01

And the irony is they have a pope that makes you wonder if you need to believe in anything in heaven these days.

01:55:09

Well, if all we got was a clean slate, and that's all regeneration was, all we would succeed at doing is mucking that one up too.

01:55:17

Scripture says even our righteous deeds are filthy rags in the sight of the Lord. I'll say this, just in passing, because this is bigger than we have time for.

01:55:27

I know we're at the end. But what Christ has done in the new birth, what he has granted us in the person of the

01:55:34

Holy Spirit, the parakletos, the one who comes along beside, this comforter, this indwelling spirit which raised

01:55:42

Christ from the dead, that works in us, both to will and to do, for his good will and pleasure. We're talking about something utterly remarkable.

01:55:50

And to simplify this down into the way the cults do or those who misunderstand it in general, is to miss the beauty of the majesty of the new birth.

01:56:01

I just want to invite the listeners again to come out to the conference, where we will have time to drill down on all these issues.

01:56:08

And we hope that you will be able to make it. Again, the conference registration is free. And so if you come, not only are we not going to charge you anything, we're actually going to pray to be a blessing to you.

01:56:21

We're going to give you books and literature that will be free of charge, not only from the warehouse at First Love Ministries, but also from Chapel Library.

01:56:30

Your Saturday meal will be included for lunch as well. So we really want to stand in front of you, as our

01:56:38

Lord says, freely we have received, therefore we freely give. So please join us for our first annual

01:56:44

Bible conference, March 3rd through 5th, 2023, as we examine the new birth together.

01:56:50

And as we cover numerous topics regarding the new birth, why regeneration matters, revival and awakening, all the breakout sessions that go with that.

01:56:58

And if you have any questions at all, just reach out to us at any point. You can register for the conference and get all the relevant information by going to firstloveministries .org.

01:57:08

Again, that's firstloveministries .org. And repeat your website for the

01:57:14

First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida. FBCBagdad .org.

01:57:22

Again, F -B -C -B -A -G -D -A -D, no H, dot

01:57:27

O -R -G. And Eddie, repeat your website for Department of Defense, of Christian Defense. Christian Defense.

01:57:34

Yeah, not Department of Defense. Christian Defense. I've gotten questions about defense issues before my website.

01:57:43

Anyways, ChristianDefense .org. We also have a

01:57:48

YouTube page in which we're filling content, which is

01:57:54

Christian Defense YouTube. But ChristianDefense .org is the website. ChristianDefense .org.

01:58:01

And don't forget about my pastor's luncheon, if you're a man in ministry leadership, on Thursday, April 13th, 11 a .m.

01:58:09

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. Also absolutely free. Also, every attendee gets a heavy sack of brand -new free books contributed by, right now, the list is up to 13 major publishers donating hundreds of free books that I select from them.

01:58:31

And also, God willing, First Love Publishing will have a table there with my dear friend

01:58:37

Tom Smith, who usually drives up from Virginia to man a free book table there.

01:58:43

And also, on top of that, the three -day Bible conference that follows at a different church, Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, all featuring

01:58:51

Dr. William Webster of Banner of Truth and Christian Resources and David T.

01:58:57

King, Associate Pastor of Christ Church in Katy, Texas. They will be speaking on the theme,

01:59:05

The Gospel, Removed by Rome, Rescued by the Reformers, and Rejected by Modern Evangelicals.

01:59:11

If you want more information, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:59:18

And I will send back to you everything you need to know to attend those two free events. I want to thank you both for being on the show today.

01:59:25

I'm looking forward to tomorrow for part two of our discussion. I want to thank everybody who listened. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater