"Missions are Great!" says Jen Wilkin... (Part 6)

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Owen's Gospel Seems To Be Missing Something - Part 7

Owen's Gospel Seems To Be Missing Something - Part 7

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All right, we are back. Thank you so much if you've been praying for me.
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I've been pretty sick, actually. The day I did that video, I was not feeling so great, and I ended up going to the urgent care place here in town that night, but I missed the cutoff point, so I had to go back the next day.
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That night was brutal. I was just tons of wheezing, tons of coughing, just hacking, awful, awful.
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I never really felt like I was short on oxygen, but it was tough, man.
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I didn't go to sleep at all that night. I mean, I did, but I would just keep waking up with wheezing and all that kind of stuff.
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Anyway, I went to the doctor the next day, and it turned out I had pneumonia and bronchitis all at the same time, so there's that.
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They put me on a cocktail of antibiotics and prednisone and all of that kind of thing, and I'm feeling a lot better now, so thank you so much for the prayers.
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I highly appreciate it. Feeling pretty much normal at this point. A little bit malaise -y still, but at least the lung situation is a lot better, so God bless you.
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Thank you so much. Let's just jump right back into this. I figured I've got a lot of good video ideas in the backlog.
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It's been a while, but I wanted to just ease into the week, so let's just do something easy and continue to respond to this good faith debate on public school.
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If you remember where we left off, Jen Wilkin, the esteemed Bible teacher, full -time minister, has told us that she doesn't think that Christian public schools would actually serve the common good, because I guess as long as there's some non -believers out there, then
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Christianity doesn't really serve the public good. It's more of a private, personal thing, I guess. I mean, I guess you'd have to say that.
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If Christian education isn't good for the public good, then I can't imagine Christian anything would be good for the public good.
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I'll let her defend. That's her ideas. She's crazy, not me. So, but yeah,
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I mean, it's just, it's a very strange place to be. It's honestly, this is one of the dumbest things
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I've ever heard on this channel, ever, that Christian education would not serve the common good, because we're a pluralistic, whatever, there's unbelievers.
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So if you're an unbeliever, Christianity's not good for you. I don't get it, I don't get it, but I really don't care that much.
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Let's continue, because I'm sure she's got a lot more nonsense to talk to us about. So let's go ahead and hear it.
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I mean, frankly, my question would be, how are we supposed to pay for that? I mean, the financial implications of Christian school are staggering.
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And so I ask, are Christian parents going into debt over this? Is that right?
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You know, I mean, like, that's a conversation for families to have among themselves. I would never just say, you know, you should never, ever do that.
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But for us, you know, $35 ,000 a year for that many children over that many years,
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I can't even imagine how we would have done that. And so while I do think
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Christian school is well -suited for some families, I think of the other single moms and parents where both parents are working, who that's not even on the table for them.
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And then how do I make sure, because it's good for all of us if those families also thrive. And so being present in the public schools is a way to ask a question which someone posed to me recently that I thought was a thought -provoking question.
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Whose children deserve a bad education, is what this person asked. Well, I think we would all say no one's, no one's do.
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And so then it reframes for me, gosh, I'm gonna try with everything that I can to make sure that not just my own children are thriving, but that the children in my community, in my area of influence are thriving as well.
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This is so manipulative. It's not even funny how manipulative this is, but I'm gonna laugh about it if I can.
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The question that she thinks is thought -provoking is which children deserve a poor education or a bad education?
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She thinks that's a fair way to frame the question. I mean, you could ask anything in that way. Which children deserve to not be well -clothed and taken care of?
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Which children deserve to not live in the best neighborhoods? Which children deserve to be shot by a stray bullet?
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Which children deserve? You could ask any question that way, and it's like, okay, the answer is none.
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Nobody deserves it. But what does that have to do with what we should do? That doesn't make any sense at all.
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It's like, which children deserve to be hit by a car? Well, none. No children deserve to be hit by a car.
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Okay, so I guess we should ban cars because no child really deserves to be hit by a car. If we didn't have cars, no child would get hit by a car.
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Problem solved. Which children deserves to starve? I guess no children deserve to starve.
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I guess that means that we gotta have socialism, right? Because socialism feeds everybody, at least that's the intention.
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Which child deserves to get sick? Well, I guess no children deserve to get sick.
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Well, I guess that means masking forever and forced vaccinations and all. Like, why not? It's hard to understand how anybody could take something so stupid seriously.
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It's amazing, like every time Jen Wilkin says something stupider than the last time, you think to yourself, how could she top that?
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And then she goes and she tops it. It's just like, it's just as every idea is worse than the last.
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Every statement makes less sense than the last. She was asked here, what about the single, what about the people that they don't have time to, they don't have a whole lot of time to mitigate the horrible experience of the public school?
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What about those? Don't you think it's like a good idea to maybe have a Christian education so at least they get something positive?
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Because you spend all this time, Jen, mitigating the horrible influence of the public school.
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What about people who don't really have time for that? Don't you think in that case, in that individual case, maybe a
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Christian school would be better? And all of a sudden she gets practical. Who's going to pay for that? Who's going to pay for that?
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I mean, it's like, you know, you can't, I used to have a boss that used to say, you know, you can't be smart when you want to be.
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You know what I mean? Like all of a sudden you get smart all of a sudden. Like, you know, you just pick and choose your spots to be practical, to be smart, to be wise.
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Like you can't be smart when you want to be. I used to never understood what he meant by that, but I think watching, and of course he wasn't, this was in a business context, he would always ask this.
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I never understood what he said by that, but I think watching Big Eva stuff, finally, I finally get it.
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You can't be smart when you want to be. Like all of a sudden they break out practicality and wisdom and biblical morals.
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Oh, are they going to go into debt for that? I don't think that's right. Biblically, you can't go into debt. Excuse me.
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And it's like, it's just like a Christianity, Christian morals are like a buffet to them where like you go through the line of the buffet and you like chicken fingers, but you don't really like ribs.
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So you don't grab that, you grab this. It's like a, it's a tool to them. It's just a tool for their ultimate agenda, which certainly seems to be a socialist, you know, dictatorship is what it seems to be.
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But in any case, let's let her continue to embarrass herself, unfortunately. So, you know,
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I honestly, my exposure to the Christian schools that I know of is not overly positive.
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I think when you're charging a premium. Right, because Christians can't do anything positive. Christians are the ultimate hypocrites.
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Christians have a negative influence. In fact, at one point in this, I was talking to a buddy about this. At one point in this debate earlier, and I didn't comment on it at the time, she basically said that she likes the influence that all the pagan insanity has on her children at the public school because they get to see how they're growing in grace and how they're different and stuff like that.
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And sure, you know, maybe there's some risk there, but you know, we have long conversations. So the influence of non -believers on her
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Christian children is a positive one. But then she says the influence at the
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Christian school is a negative one because people aren't real. They're not really real, you know what I mean?
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They're not for real, for real. And so you can't, I mean, how are you supposed to know if you're growing in grace if you're just around all these fake
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Christians, right? Because Christians are, and this is the fundamental premise for Jen Wilkin, but also she's a good representative of Big Eva.
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If you see how Big Eva comments on public issues, this is the general idea. Christians have a negative influence on things and pagans have a either neutral or positive influence on things.
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It's always the church doesn't understand race relations, but Jay -Z does. It's always the church is backwards on LGBT issues, but you know,
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I can't even think of someone who cares. It's always pagans good, church bad.
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And it's like, you gotta wonder why, what is the point of being a Christian if you're less, if you end up less holy than the pagans, less moral than the pagans?
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Like the pagans are always more moral, even sure you have the forgiveness of Christ. So I guess you're technically holy, but that actually doesn't do much for you day to day.
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You actually have a negative influence on the culture. Christian schools, negative influence. Pagan schools, positive influence.
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It makes no sense because that's not what the Bible tells you to expect. And if you're honest with the data, you know that makes no sense too.
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But see Jen Wilkin, in Jen Wilkin's universe, her version of Christianity comes from like sitcoms.
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You know, it's always the mean Christian that does this or the evil Christian hypocritical teacher that says that or does this.
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And it's like the West Wing style of what Christianity is. Oh, they're just bigoted and hypocrites and all this kind of stuff.
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It's ultimately Big Eva despises Christians and they write like they despise
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Christians. That's the bottom line. And Jen Wilkin despises Christians. Hold on,
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I gotta take this call. All right, sorry about that. I had to take that call. Good news on that call.
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But I forgot where I was. So we're just gonna have to, you know, put a pin in this and continue.
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And to educate children, you have a vested interest in trumpeting the value of what you're doing in a way that doesn't always translate into outcomes.
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I'm not saying that's the way every Christian school is. My daughter actually had an overwhelmingly positive experience in a
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Christian school that didn't come out of desegregation.
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You know, it was just a really sweet place to teach. And it was good for me to see that positive expression of Christian education, because my mother had taught in Christian schools and had a negative experience.
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I had some baggage. So I do know it can be a great environment for kids, but it's never going to be a wise.
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Why do you need this? This is so, why do you need to experience that it could be good to know that it could be good?
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Like, what about the scripture would teach you that Christian education is usually gonna be bad or should be bad or can't be good?
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Like, it just certainly seems to me that there's a severe lack of faith about the goodness of Christianity when it comes to Jen Wilkin.
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And this is common to Big Eva, so I'm not just beating up on Jen Wilkin. She's unfortunately the tip of the spear of this ridiculous position in this gospel coalition thing.
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There's a lack of faith in the goodness of Christianity. Big Eva is not convinced that Christianity is actually good in the grand scheme of things.
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Like, it's good for them. You know, their soul gets saved for eternity. And that's good, of course. But for society, for the people that are not being saved,
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Christianity is not good for them in any way. Like the morality of Christians does nothing for the pagans.
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And that's actually not what the scripture teaches. It can't save you, of course. But when you obey God's law as a pagan, that's better for you than not obeying
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God's law as a pagan, even if you're not saved either way. That's what we should expect when we read the scripture.
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But this renowned Bible teacher, full -time minister, who sent her kids to Caesar to be educated, she can't see that.
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She needs to experience that maybe like some Christian schools might be good, but I had no reason to expect that.
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Why? Why? Bread solution for people, just due to the necessary expense that it requires.
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So both of you - You can't figure out a way to fund this. No, you definitely can't figure out a way to fund
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Christian education for people that need help. That to me is so insane of an idea when you think about the millions and millions and millions of dollars that change hands in the name of Christ, and some of it legitimate, some of it illegitimate.
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You can't think of a single way to fund an affordable Christian education for everyone who wants it.
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You can't think of a way? You think there's no way? There's so many reasons why
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Jen Wilkin is not qualified to teach, besides the fact that she's a woman teaching inappropriately as a woman.
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Besides that, she would not be qualified anyway, because she simply isn't smart enough. It's just that simple.
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It's just that simple. She shouldn't teach the way she's teaching because, number one, she's not a minister.
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Because she's a woman, she can't be a minister in that way. But she's also not able to teach, competent to teach.
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That's a problem. So she wouldn't be qualified even if she was a man. Have obviously given freedom to make other decisions.
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You've talked about the variety of factors. And the thing is, Christian women get this. Christian women read
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Jen Wilkin's stuff, and they understand, like, no, this is really not good at all. You know what I mean? There are so many just like...
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You know what? I have to stop saying I hate the word based. I guess I like it now. But there are so many just based
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Christian women out there that they get it. They understand. They read Jen Wilkin's garbage, and they're like, this is garbage.
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Just because she's a woman like me doesn't mean I have to like it. It's still garbage. A female version of garbage teaching is the same as male garbage teaching, except it adds a little vector of feminism to it.
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There's just so many. I always want to make sure that that's clear. There are so many like just solid
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Christian women out there that get it. They get it. Live in a world -class school district.
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You have a family situation that is conducive for the educational choices that you've chosen.
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What would be factors, if you were to do it again, that would have caused you to make the opposite decision?
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Good question. Let me predict what's gonna happen here. What's gonna happen here is Pennington is gonna give an answer that gives a lot of ground, and what she's gonna do is give an answer that gives no ground, because the whole point of these debates is for the conservative to give ground and the liberal to just hold her ground, essentially.
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That's usually always a her. That's a great question.
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I've asked this having, you know, I have family living in all different areas of the country, and they face very different considerations in this.
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As I mentioned, the education piece for us was not a hard question to answer. If I thought they would not actually be able to receive an education in the public schools, then
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I would absolutely have done what I could to homeschool. I don't know that I would have gone the
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Christian school route because of the baggage I had around it at the point that my children were of education age.
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Who knows if there would have been a homicide if I had actually homeschooled my kids? The world will never know.
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But I do know. You know, I know she's joking, but like, what kind of joke is that?
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What kind of joke is that? The guy just kind of laughs, huh? Like, are you freaking crazy?
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She is a little crazy. There's just no question about that. But like, is it really that bad?
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It's like, it would be so terrible to educate my own kids that I might've killed one.
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Ha ha ha! Like, obviously she wouldn't really have killed them, but just to present it that way, it's like, it's hard.
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I mean, I get it. Like, my wife has a hard time sometimes with their attitudes and things like that, but she's a mom though.
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This is like part of being a parent. Like, this is standard part of the job. Like, you need to deal with this.
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Like, I don't know about you, I like being around my kids, you know? And it's unpleasant to have to discipline my kids and it's stuff like that, but it's part of the job.
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I signed up for it, you know what I mean? But like, at no point have I even considered like a joke.
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Like, I guess I just got off one of them. Like, I just don't get it.
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Like, it's, if you're a Christian and you're considering homeschooling your kids and you're wondering if it will be difficult, it will be.
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It will be. Is it so hard that you can crack jokes like this and it's like, that's common?
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No, it's not that hard. It's 100 % worth it though, man.
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Like, it's just, it is so, I'm so blessed to work from home and to be able to see the successes and to be able to have a finger on the struggles that each individual kid has.
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Like, I've got three kids and one of them has very particular struggles. The other one has different ones and certain strengths and things like that.
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And it's just so awesome to see that and to see them overcome that. And it's challenging and sometimes my wife's in tears, you know, after the fact.
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It's not that bad. It's actually good. Educating your own kids is good.
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It's a good thing. And it's like, I just, I hate the way that this is so often presented.
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It's almost like when people find out that you have like more than the standard number of kids, like you got five or six kids or something like that.
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And they crack jokes like, you do know how we have these, right? And it's like, how could you be so backwards to keep having kids?
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Like, it obviously is so bad to have that many. That's the, like, it's a joke, I get it.
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But it's like, I don't know. It's a stupid joke. It's a stupid joke. Put it that way.
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That there are public school situations that are untenable to put your children into.
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And I would still say, I would have hoped we, I imagine we would have still tried to support the public schools. I hope we would have convictionally, even if we couldn't put our own children in them.
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It was interesting, some of the teachers that DMed me in the Instagram story situation, several of them said,
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I couldn't put my own children in, but I'm teaching in the school system because I want it to be better for my neighbors.
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I hope that would have been a position that I could have maintained if we had found ourselves living somewhere where public school was not an option.
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You know, so she does essentially what I said. She doesn't really give any ground. She says, if they couldn't get an education, then of course
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I wouldn't send them there because they couldn't get an education. To me, that sounds like if the teachers weren't good enough or if the school system wasn't good enough, like educationally, or maybe she's talking about violence in the schools or something like that, like an inner city school or something like that.
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She doesn't really say, she doesn't really give you criteria so therefore she gives no ground. She basically says, yeah, sure, you know,
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I can imagine, I mean, this is an exception to the rule, of course, that there's some public schools out there where they don't get a world -class,
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God -honoring education like they did at my school. But I guess in that hypothetical,
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I mean, this is purely hypothetical situation, we wouldn't send our kids there. I was like, so she gives essentially no ground.
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Let's see what John Pennington does. I mean, don't you feel the dilemma of that though? I mean, and again, I respect that as well, but I mean, it seems like that kind of undercuts the vision like in the sense of if you wouldn't put your own kids in it, how can you be engaged in a positive way still?
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I guess that's one way to frame the question. Lots of ways. I mean, I think that's a really good practical question. Yeah, I think there are lots of ways.
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You can still go to school board meetings, you can still volunteer in the public schools, there's mentoring programs, you can be supportive of the teachers who are in the trenches.
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When you think about what public school teachers represent in this country, they're often, they're on the front lines of, you know, when a child reports, they're the first, their mandatory report on all the
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CPS concerns. I thought John Pennington, I was shocked for a second. You might have saw it in my face that he was actually pushing back because, you know, that doesn't typically happen when there's a woman speaking.
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The ultimate authority, of course, in the evangelical church. But he did push back, but he kind of pushed back in the worst possible place he could have pushed back.
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I didn't really quite understand like that. Like, of course there's other ways you could support it without sending your kids there.
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I mean, you could still work there without sending your kids there to, like that. It just was a very weird line of attack.
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I mean, I gotta give him credit for pushing back at all because that, again, that doesn't typically happen. But it was just the vector he chose to launch that attack made no sense to me.
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Function that they perform in our society. Certainly seems like that was a softball for her to knock out of the park, which of course she is because even though she's incompetent to teach the scriptures, she's not a stupid woman.
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Is valuable, and for them to be unsupported is unthinkable to me. And so even if my own children were not able to be in that education space,
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I would want to do everything within my power to support it. So it's unthinkable to her to not support pagan public school.
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But it's not unthinkable to, but it's like, it is unthinkable.
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I don't even know what point I'm making, but like, it's, she thinks that a Christian public school would be bad, but it's unthinkable to her to not support a pagan public school.
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Like, it's just the upside downness of this is just so palpable, it's insane.
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And improve it. Because, you know, there've been a lot of studies done on the impact on a school if there are just even two involved adults who will take interest in what's happening, who are not on staff, and the impact that that has on a public school and a community.
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And so it just feels like a really easy local missions effort that's right in front of us all the time.
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Local missions effort? Why would Christians have a positive influence on this? I guess if they're
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Christians and not acting Christianly, then of course maybe, I guess they could in her twisted weird universe.
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But man, I gotta be honest, Jen Wilkin really smacked Jonathan in the mouth rhetorically on that one.
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John's like, I can't even imagine how you could do this. I mean, again, I'm glad he pushed back, but it was the stupidest pushback. And she just really smacked him in the mouth.
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This is so easy, Jonathan. She said it in a nice way, of course. But Christian, a mission field.
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So she does think the public school is a mission field, just not for the kids. Okay, gotcha.
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So as long as you're not acting too Christianly, like, because the minute you're actually a Christian in the public school and you wanna make it a
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Christian public school, that's bad. So if you're doing Christian missions, I guess it's bad. If you're doing missions, but not explicitly
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Christian missions, then it's good. So I guess you can give the guy a cup of water, but as long as you don't say it's in Jesus' name, because if you say this is a cup of water in Jesus' name, then it's
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Christian and it's bad. But if it's just a cup of water, you're good to go. That's essentially what
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I've got from Jen Wilkin here. It's a Christian mission field, but just not too much. It's like a Christian mission field if you drop the
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Christian, then it's good. It's a mission field, and that's good for you to do as a
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Christian, but just as long as it's not a Christian mission field, because that would be bad. Cup of water, not in Jesus' name, though.
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You have to answer the same question. Yeah, so the question again being what would be, if you went back, what would be circumstances in which you could imagine yourself sending your children to public school?
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Here's my circumstances, ready? We live in a Christian empire. We've got a Christian king or ruler, president, whatever it is.
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We've got a Christian legislature, and we've got Christian public schools, and I couldn't afford to private school them or for some reason
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I couldn't homeschool them. You know what I mean? Maybe I'm a single father or something like that. Then I'd feel comfortable sending them to a public school, a
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Christian public school in a Christian empire with explicitly Christian morality, promoted, taught,
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Christian everything. I'm comfortable there. That's my answer. It's a laundry list of items, and we're very far from it right now, but that's what it would have taken.
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Let's see what John Pennington's answer is. Do I have any predictions besides that he's gonna give a lot of ground?
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No, I don't. Let's just hear him out. Yeah, I mean, the financial part has been difficult for us.
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It really has, and homeschooling made that easier, even though there's costs in that involved in terms of buying your own curriculum, and we're still paying taxes and everything, but yeah, private school has been a challenge on the financial side, so I really feel that, and I'm aware that most people do that, so if that makes me have some pause at moments, like was this the best thing to go, kind of feels like backwards financially for 15 years or 20 years, but I think for us, the public education system where we've been in for the last 18 years,
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I would not be comfortable putting our kids in for a number of reasons, and it feels like it's worse.
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You know, I don't know if we're just getting older, but it feels like... Yeah, I mean, the social risk is a component as well to be addressed.
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I mean, like our kids are, you know, 18 to 30 kind of thing, but you think, if I had a, and people ask me this all the time too,
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I had a pastor text me the other day, you know, we have a, you know, whatever it is, kindergartner and below, and we want to be a good witness, we wanna be engaged in society, but I'm really concerned, and I had to say, it does seem that many of the things going on, not everything you hear is true, but many of the things going on in public education in terms of some moral issues feel more extreme than they did even when our kids were little.
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I don't think that's just in our minds. I think there have been social changes in a significant way.
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And so I think for us, but I guess I need to answer your question, sorry. I think I would, I think the money, if we would have had a better, more comfortable public education system, maybe in a smaller town or something where I was more involved, could have been more involved,
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I think the financial combination with that would have made us more open to public schooling.
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Although when the kids were really little, homeschooling was so great because our life was more integrated, like we weren't controlled by a schedule outside of ourselves in terms of trips, and then yours are probably this way too,
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I mean, our older kids were very young readers, you know, they were reading at four, et cetera, because we worked with them, and it felt like there was a lot of wasted time in any kind of schooling system,
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I mean, Christian or public, in those early years, especially, and it was really just a sweet time to be with them and really shape them, and with a lot of freedom that we had to just do our own thing, you know, maybe that sounds selfish or something, but it was really a wonderful time, and so I would not wanna give that up, you know, but yeah.
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It is interesting that either of you. Basically, he said that if we couldn't afford it,
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I guess is what his answer was, that if we couldn't afford it, or if we lived in a great public school area, then we would do it so we could save money, essentially is what it boiled down to, and then he kinda hedged and said, well, but the early years,
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I don't know, because it was really great, and I gotta be honest, my kids are young too, and it is great, he's right, it is great.
29:21
Homeschooling your kids is great. It is so awesome to see their progress day -to -day, to see them have successes, to see them have struggles even is awesome, because you can watch them overcome those struggles and help them overcome that, and honestly, it even helps me, because there's so many things that I just take for granted that I know that I don't know why
29:43
I know them, and I don't know why it works the way it works, but when you're homeschooling a kid, they always wanna know why, and so you better figure out why, and there's resources available for you to know this stuff and to teach it, but I know for a fact that my kids are more advanced than I was at their ages, and different things and all that, it's just, it's wonderful, it's wonderful, so if you're listening to someone like Jen Wilkin that's like, oh, they're not gonna get a world -class education, and they're not gonna grow up to be a doctor, or an engineer, or whatever it is she was saying about her kids, it's just not true, it's just, it's not true, it's not, look,
30:24
I'm gonna do the Jeff Durbin, look at me, oh no, that's not what he says, he says, watch this, it's not true.
30:31
Watch this. You mentioned safety. All right, safety, that's a different issue.
30:37
All right, well, we're gonna jump back into this later this week. Next, tomorrow, I've got a special video about James Lindsay coming up that is gonna be really funny.
30:46
I'm so glad I didn't do it the other day, because I would've been coughing and just a train wreck, I don't know,
30:52
I might not have made it, but anyway, God bless you, I hope you found this helpful.
30:58
bless. God bless.