Discipline in Light of the Gospel | Outside Eden

Theocast

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:09

Welcome to Outside Eden, two centers discovering grace together. It's good to be back on the podcast,

00:16

Judith. Yes, it is. It's been a long time. This is my wife, Judith Moffitt. Good morning. We've been married 20 years. Going on 21.

00:23

Wow. Very soon. Four children. For those of you that don't know our family, I'm the pastor of Grace Reformed Church.

00:28

We have kids that range from 8 to 20. Well, they're all about to have birthdays. Yeah. But two boys, two girls, it's been awesome parenting and a dog.

00:39

So we took a break. We are really want to do this in seasons when we feel like we have something new to add to our church.

00:47

For those of you listening to this that don't go to our church, we pray this is beneficial. But really, this is designed for our church.

00:52

We are recording in our home. So you might hear our kids in the background, our dog. We'll do our best to edit that out.

01:00

So Judith, we're going to do something different. We want to go through a book and this book can be not the book itself, but the topic controversial, disciplining your children.

01:10

And you and I have had disagreements on this all throughout our marriage. We've had to shape and form, encourage one another.

01:17

So this has been good. It's been hard to find a resource when people ask us for help. Yes. Yes.

01:23

I feel like a lot of the resources out there are mainly about steps and rules and what may seem like really practical things, but really they're just, they just don't apply to everybody and they don't work in every situation and they, they don't always get to the heart of the matter.

01:39

So I was really excited when you found this book, um, as I began reading it,

01:45

I'm feeling like, wow, this is what it's taken me 20 years to learn. It would have been helpful to have this, but just nodding in agreement with so much of this and being thankful that, um,

01:57

God gave this woman the words to write it down. Well, and there's a lot of parenting theories and styles, um, and that, that's where things can get complicated because the book gets into this a little bit, but that's where I've been frustrated where it's like there, you have so many blogs and books out there and discussions and Instagrams and everybody's kind of promoting like their style and I love what this book gets at because this is not stylistic.

02:24

This is not about preferences. There, it's a, there's a mission behind what we're doing. So let's go ahead and introduce people to the book, right?

02:31

So the book is by a mom of five boys and you get to know her well in there.

02:37

Uh, her name is Sarah Wallace and the name of the book is for the love of discipline when the gospel meets tantrums and timeouts.

02:45

And, um, what I've really appreciated about this book, we kind of want to sell you on going on this journey with us, but we are really not going to give you a lot out of the book.

02:54

We want you to get it yourself, especially because, um, Sarah has done such a great job. I think she deserves to be rewarded for her, her work and I think you should have the book.

03:03

It's also good to go back to, to have it on hand just to reread. We're going to give additional thoughts, thoughts that come from the book, but we really, uh, encourage you to read it because I think you'll enjoy the experience.

03:15

And again, going back with you and your husband, if you're a single parent with just you, um, and hopefully your church, uh,

03:21

Judith and I, and the goal is for each one of these episodes is to, uh, help you think through and walk through this.

03:29

We thought about doing a class. We, our church has so many classes right now, so many meetings without let's do this.

03:34

And then at the end, when we're finished the book, we're going to do a parenting seminar and we'll walk through all of your questions together and we'll talk about all of our failures together and turn to Christ.

03:43

And we could share some of those questions in a podcast for those who don't go to our church. Yeah, absolutely.

03:49

Absolutely. So Judith, talk to us. I know you already mentioned it, but talk to us a little bit more about why you're excited about this book and kind of where you're hoping this goes for the hearts of you and I as a great reminder and to learn new ways to, we're still shepherding hearts at 20 down to eight.

04:04

So we're not, we're not done if ever. Um, tell us a little bit about the book.

04:10

Well, I just really thankful because it goes back and continues to point at the heart and the mission. So the heart of your child and the mission of why we're doing what we're doing.

04:18

And from a mom's perspective, when you're doing this day in and day out, it's a lot of doing the same thing over and over and over again.

04:26

And you start to feel like you must be doing something wrong because you're not seeing results. Um, but this book is just reminding you that you are fighting for your child's soul.

04:35

So it is a very slow and repetitive work, but then it goes into why that's important and why it matters.

04:43

So just, um, giving the means of knowing how to work with their hearts and see past the outside, um, you know, exposure of their sin and to look at the heart and then to be, um, confident that you're, you're doing it the right way.

04:59

It just takes a lot of patience and love and consistency. Yeah.

05:04

So encouraging moms in that way, instead of them feeling like, oh, I didn't do this step today or I didn't do this today,

05:10

I messed it all up. It's definitely more of a well forgiving gracious way, which

05:17

I think is God's God's way. That's right. Yeah. When I was refreshed by the author and now it's to encourage everyone as you read this, because I know some people have had bad experiences with parenting books as I have, she's very self -deprecating and admits to her own problems.

05:30

And what's interesting about her position in the book, which is our position in the podcast, we don't want to tell you these things because we're the experts on them.

05:38

We figured them out and that's, it's hard because you know, um, it's, it's not like what we're trying to do.

05:48

Like if you're building a company, here's the proper steps, you know, or if you're cooking a recipe, here's the proper, here's the proper, um, ingredients.

05:56

You're dealing with a human soul that is trapped by sin that removes any formulas, right?

06:04

Especially when you have several of those human souls that are very different and require different things.

06:10

There's no recipes or to -do lists, which often is what we want to do A and B is the result.

06:15

And, um, thankfully that's not what the book provides and it's just a great structural way to kind of help us think through biblically the responsibility of parenting.

06:25

And that's where I want to talk a little bit about kind of our spin and twist on the book. Some things we're going to add to the book.

06:30

And this is the part that Judith and I want to add is really thinking about your home from the perspective of the kingdom, which is something we've been talking about in church for a while now.

06:42

It is right. So we, we live in a, the physical world. We live in, um,

06:48

United States for us, whoever else is listening to this. We live in Spring Hill and Columbia and Franklin for those in our church.

06:54

And that's our physical world that we live in. And that's where it's going to play out. But that's not the residency of our heart and our home and our hope, right?

07:01

We live for the king and his kingdom. So we have two kingdoms that we're a part of.

07:07

We're really a part of this world, our residence here, which is temporary. And then the real hope and the real mission, which is

07:14

Christ. And unfortunately the kingdom that we live in that's physical has an opposing enemy against us.

07:22

This one, when Paul says we wrestle not against flesh and blood, Ephesians six, this is what he's pointing to. So as we shepherd our children, it's not like, um, you know, the way

07:32

I, the way I'd often think about parenting, I've been building a barn door, well, I guess rebuilding a barn door for, uh, you are for us and our home.

07:41

And you know, when I, when I first went into the project, I was like, Oh, this will be easy. I'll just do this, this and that. Well, famous last word, right?

07:49

Imagine every time you go to build a Lego set and you're assuming all the parts are in there and all the instructions are correct.

07:56

That's not how parenting is. As soon as you open up the packaging, half the pieces are missing and the instructions are in another language.

08:02

Yeah. That's a good analogy. That's exactly how it feels. But that doesn't mean we quit, right?

08:07

Because it's, it's the value behind what we're doing. We have to fight for it. The problem, Judith, that I know that you and I wrestled with early, and I'd love for you to talk about this, but the thing that we wrestled with early on in our parenting is, um, and this is not a dig on our church or a parents, um, but I don't know if we had like a kingdom minded perspective of parenting as much as behavior modification.

08:31

Right. Right. Right. And, and like you said, this isn't like a personal thing. Like I remember my parents talking to me about my heart and my spirit and all of that, but in general, in the

08:40

Christian world, it's very much outside oriented. Like your child should obey the first time, every time.

08:46

So now I'm out in public and I was a very young first time mom. Yeah. 23. Yeah. And so especially in Southern California, that's really not normal.

08:55

Um, so I just remember feeling very judged cause I was like the only one my age with a child and you know, just being in church and, and around other

09:04

Christian women, if my child didn't obey, which I had a very, very strong willed first child, um, it now was not about her heart.

09:13

It was about, Oh, you will obey cause everyone's watching and I'm going to show that I'm in control. Um, which doesn't help anything.

09:20

No. It actually, I mean, it's interesting. I've had, I'm like reflecting on that. It probably created a lot of bitterness in our, our daughter cause you could kind of see some of that frustration coming out in her kind of like, um, not knowing how to process what's really going on in her heart.

09:35

And we were young parents, you know, at the same time. And I know a lot of young parents are listening to this, so this is not impossible.

09:43

We just want you to have a different experience than we did. Because I'm the descript, um, you know, not only is it frustrating cause you don't feel like you have everything that you need and everything's in another language, it's monotonous work at times.

09:56

It feels like it's, you've said this before, it's unrewarding because you can't see the long game.

10:02

Right. Cause the reward is so distant, it's going to, you know, you're not going to see it for a long time.

10:07

And there are glimpses here and there, which I think is a gift from God and we need to really focus on those. And I know John, you're really good at pointing that out to me, like reminding me,

10:15

Oh, okay. Let's not forget this win and this win and look at this and you hear what that person said.

10:20

That's a nice perspective of your children that you don't, you might not see all the time at home. So I appreciate that because when you are in the, in, you know, you're the one at home doing it all day long.

10:29

It really is easy to just feel like, man, this is going nowhere. And that's just not true. It's a lie.

10:34

And it's, it's, it's easy to find success in like our finances and excuse me, our health, our hobbies, because often we're in control of those, right?

10:43

The effort we put in, the effort we get out. You were talking about this, you, you had a very successful nursing career and you did it for what?

10:52

Nine years, something like that. And you were able to see like the results of your work. Oh yeah. Goals and teamwork and affirmation and raises and yeah, paycheck.

11:03

And then you become a full -time mom when we moved to Tennessee, which I wanted, right? No, that was totally, that was the goal by design always.

11:10

But then it was like, wow, this is very different. Nobody likes anything I'm doing. They complain about my food.

11:15

They complain about the house. And again, you know, it's, you were very complimentary and you're doing a great job, but you know, sometimes it's, sometimes it, that doesn't feel like enough because we want to, you feel like we're just, you're just being nice.

11:31

Well, and this is where I think you and I really worked on our hearts saying we have to change the perspective of our home.

11:38

The world really downplays family, the value of the home.

11:44

We let the world, the government and entertainment guide and direct our children.

11:50

Right. I mean, I was saying this in women's group the other night after some prayer requests, it's like, we don't realize what we're up against speaking of two kingdoms, right?

11:59

I don't, I think, and that's why I think revealing and really focusing on the two kingdoms and understanding that there are two kingdoms.

12:08

We don't really realize what we're up against. The world is downplaying motherhood, it's downplaying like it's like, oh, you stay home.

12:16

What else do you do? Are you an author? Do you have a side gig? Like, what else are you doing? We're so used to hearing that we're used to seeing it on social media.

12:25

And even if it's not a side gig or something like that, it's their home looks perfect. Their children are all in coordinating colors, like their kids are involved in all of these side activities.

12:36

And so for a very exhausted mom, because we all have different kinds of kids, right? It's very easy to feel like, what am

12:44

I even doing with my life? Like I am busy every second of the day and I still feel like I'm not accomplishing, put aside all those other side things these other moms are doing.

12:54

I don't think, I don't even see what I'm accomplishing in shaping my kid's heart, much less anything else about them.

13:00

So I think learning to spot those lies from Satan and to spot, oh, well, that's, let's go back to the focus of this kingdom and what

13:10

I'm doing for our, for God's kingdom is really helpful and encouraging. And this book does that.

13:16

Yeah. And I would say you and I have new challenges that we really hadn't faced at the first 10 years of our parenting.

13:22

And that's like the pressures of, you know, oh, where is your kid going to school and what are they doing for a living?

13:31

And it's all like unspoken kind of, but like what career successful and it's just remembering what is true success, constantly going back and lining up everything we start to think with the

13:43

Bible and with God's heart and thinking, well, what is true success as a believer living in God's kingdom?

13:49

What is success for my child? And staying focused on that. Cause it's so easy to get pulled into being controlled by the world's and even

13:58

Christian cultures narrative. That's right. So this book, for those of you that have older children, you may feel like, oh, this isn't for me.

14:05

I would highly disagree. I think there's going to be a lot of ways in which this book reveals the heart behind parenting, not so much how to discipline your children.

14:15

So I'm pretty, I think we've sold hopefully the idea, if you will go along the journey with us. And if you're listening to this podcast and you absolutely cannot afford it and you go to our church, we will, we will make sure the church gets you a copy of this book.

14:29

It's in Kindle, paperback and audio. We want everyone who wants to be a part of this to be a part of it.

14:35

We know sometimes funds can be a thing, especially when you have little kids and a young marriage. I've told this story on the, on the podcast before, but I'll tell it again.

14:43

I can remember when you told me not to buy you flowers and that's just purely because it was like, we needed that money to eat, you know?

14:51

And so I know what it's like to be a young parent where like, I really liked the flowers, but we can't afford them.

14:57

So don't let this prevent you from that. Judith, any other thoughts before we close it down? We didn't want it to be a long first opening.

15:04

No, I'm just, I'm just excited to get started on the chapters. I just really feel like it's going to bring a lot of encouragement and hope.

15:11

If anything, please listen to this podcast for the sake of being your heart encouraged to keep doing what's right for the sake of God's glory and the future of your children.

15:23

So, well, thanks for listening to Outside Eating. For those of you who are church, we're excited to go along this journey with you.

15:30

God encourage and bless you and we'll see you in the next episode. All right. Bye.