May 18, 2017 Show with Jonathan Master on Part 2 of “The God We Worship: Adoring the One Who Pursues, Redeems & Changes His People”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this

18th day of May 2017.

In studio with me is my co -host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Hello again.

And we have returning to our program for the second time, Jonathan Master.

Well, at least it's the second time that we are discussing the same topic.

I'm not sure—I think we may have had Jonathan on more than twice, but we are discussing

part two of The God We Worship, and Jonathan

is the professor of theology and dean of the School of Divinity at Cairn University in

Langhorne, Pennsylvania.

He's the editorial director for the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals and host of the Alliance

podcast, Theology on the Go.

He's also the author of A Question of Consensus, The Doctrine of Assurance After the

Westminster Confession, and we are discussing, as I said, part two of The God We Worship,

Adoring the One Who Pursues, Redeems, and Changes His People.

And it's my honor and privilege to have you back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jonathan Master.

Thanks, Chris.

Thanks, Buzz.

Good to be with you.

And is this my second interview with you, or have I had more than two?

This is our third.

That's what I thought.

You were right, though.

It's the second on this particular book.

Right, yes.

And it was a privilege to once again be very near

to the exhibitors booth for Cairn University at the Alliance of Confessing

Evangelicals conference, where the Reverend Buzz Taylor and I were manning our own exhibitors booth

for the Faithful Shepherd Pastors Retreat at the Harvey Cedars

Bible Conference Center on Long Beach Island, New Jersey.

And if I sound like I'm not my wide -awake, sparky,

excited self today, it's because I'm still very drained from a lack of sleep when I was there.

So nothing against the conference for that, but I just got sleep -deprived through insomnia.

But I hope that I can make it through the end of the program without stumbling over too many words, Jonathan.

Well, most people, I guess, who get full night's sleep do exactly that.

Well, Chris, you just take a nap, and I'll talk with Jonathan.

How's that?

You mean you want to switch places, I guess, because Buzz is usually napping during every broadcast.

But before we go into the discussion or continue the

discussion of the God we worship, remind our listeners, or inform our listeners who never

heard you before on this broadcast, about Cairn University in Langhorne, Pennsylvania.

Yeah,

the

inerrancy

of Jesus

Christ

for

a

number

of major...

And now tell our listeners about the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, where you serve as editorial

director.

Yeah, the Alliance is a churchmen and pastors and theologians and

laypeople within the church who are united together to

try to foster a Reformed awakening in today's church.

The way the Alliance goes, it's in conferences that feature

online publications

that the Alliance has.

We also

have a couple of

podcasts.

You mentioned mine, Theology on the Go, at the outset, which offers

sort of brief 15 -minute interviews on theological topics.

Then there's also Mortification of Spin, which is a little bit longer format, with three hosts.

So a number of different activities that the Alliance engages in, but the

overall thrust of the whole thing...

Yeah, we had all of the participants of the Mortification of Spin at

the Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center for the Faithful Shepherd

Pastor Retreat.

Dr. Carl Truman was there, Todd Pruitt was there, and Amy Bird

was there.

And we also had John Nielsen contribute some excellent messages.

In fact, I'm planning to have John on very soon to discuss his work at

Princeton University, being a part of, obviously, a very tiny minority of

evangelicals there doing ministry, which is a sad commentary since that

was a bastion of evangelical and Reformed theology in the 19th century and

perhaps the earliest parts of the 20th century before a tragic decline

into liberalism, which swallowed it up.

But it's good to know that men like John Nielsen are there doing a good work and

fanning the flames of.

Revival there.

Yeah, no, there are some good, good people doing work on campuses.

I happen to know some of the ones at Princeton, and it is

very good work that they do.

And then, of course, being with the Spin gang, Carl and Amy and Todd, that's always...

Oh yeah, they were excellent,.

And I enjoyed also having private conversations with them.

And I'm looking forward to have Carl Truman back on.

He is going to be discussing the classic book by Bannerman, The Church of

Christ, published by the Banner of Truth.

And he brought the foreword to that reprint that Banner of Truth has in print.

And so I'm looking forward to interviewing Carl Truman on that book and on

Bannerman himself.

We have not yet picked a date, but hopefully that will come about very soon.

And once again, for those of our listeners who missed your interview, tell them specifically about what you

discuss on Theology on the Go.

Theology on the Go is a brief podcast.

Usually we aim for about 12 to 15 minutes, sometimes it goes closer to 20, where I interview one

particular person on one particular topic.

So the topic usually is a theological topic, justification, the

atonement, those kinds of things.

Or sometimes it's biographical, and

the idea is to have certain people on their

commute or while making dinner or something like that, that introduces them

to a person and gives them some resources at the end

to kind of investigate further.

So the slogan that we have for it is a brief interview about an eternal truth, and that's sort

of...

Great.

And for more information about the.

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, our listeners can go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet

.org, and I will be reminding you of that later on in the program because we

have a couple of future events to announce, at least one of them being sponsored by

the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

But now I want to also, before we get into the discussion at hand, remind our listeners about an event

where you are speaking, the Banner of Truth 2017 U .S. Ministers' Conference, which

is coming up very soon.

It in fact will be on Tuesday, May 30th through Thursday, June 1st,

and what is exactly your topic of discussion for our listeners who.

Missed you last time?

Living and enduring words, so our theme really revolves around two

addresses.

The first one is called Living and Active, and the second, Sharper Than Any Two Edges,

of Hebrews chapter 4.

But my first address, I'm going to look at an Old Testament text where the

Word of God is shown to be alive and doing the work of the Lord, and then the second address, I'm going to look

at 2 Timothy chapter 3 on the doctrine of the

Word in a very pointed

way.

And so both addresses on the Bible and from the Bible, and

that's kind of how they're going to be divided up.

A number of other speakers there as well, but I'm going to be giving...

Yes, and joining Jonathan Master at that conference, the U .S. Ministers'

Conference, sponsored by the Banner of Truth, joining him will be Joel Beeky, Jeff Thomas, William Vanderwerd,

Mark Johnston, Carlton Nguyen, and Ian Hamilton.

So I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible at the U .S.

Ministers' Conference, May 30th through June 1st, in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the Elizabethtown

College.

And I'll be repeating this information later as well.

Let me give our listeners our email address.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

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Otherwise, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence at chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

Well, the last time we had you on, Jonathan, to discuss this book, we went through every

important word or phrase in the title.

We went through the word God and exactly who this God is that we worship.

We went even through the word we, meaning the ones who worship.

We went through what worship means, adoring.

We went through what pursues and redeems and changes his

people mean.

In fact, they said last time if this were to be an Arminian book

written by honest Arminians, the book would

have been aptly titled The God We Worship, The One Who

Pursues, Tries to Redeem, and Tries to Change

Everyone, rather than The One Who Pursues, Redeems, and Changes His People.

These are certain things that have either been accomplished in regard to his redemption

or his work on Calvary and as far as pursuing and changing and

transforming those whom he has elected before the foundations of the world.

These are things that are certain about God.

He doesn't try to do.

Anything, as we said last time, am I right?

Yeah, that's absolutely right.

I mean, the words are intentionally definite.

It's indicative of the fact that in the New Testament,

he accomplishes what he sets out to do,

and so it's important for us to say that.

A lot of times when people present the gospel, it's presented

as being on the other side, sort of waiting, hoping, fingers crossed, but that's not what the scriptural

teaching is about.

We were dead in our trespasses and sins, and God made us alive.

That's the kind of...

And we believe that God definitely has.

A people.

His people are the elect whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world, and they include

Jew and Gentile and from those out of every tribe and nation and people and

tongue.

His chosen people are not exclusively the Jews, as many dispensationalists

and messianic ministries will attempt to claim today, or they do claim today,

but they are people from a multitude of ethnic

backgrounds and races and so on, whom he has chosen for himself.

Is that not one of the distinctions of Reformed theology, it seems, is that we

make this bold statement that his chosen people are the elect from all

races and groups and ethnicities and nations from all over the globe.

It's that language of

chosen people of

God, and when he

talks

about God's

elect,

sometimes

Gentile.

In Christ, elect before...

And the first chapter of the book was written by

Brian Chappell, God's Glory Revealed, and I'm assuming I'm pronouncing

his name correctly, it's Chappell, correct?

Not Chappell?

Right.

And tell us about God's Glory Revealed.

Dr. Chappell does in this chapter, and it's really beautiful how he does it,

in Isaiah, of course, recognition of his own

sinfulness

in his life, and what Chappell...

And chapter two, an old friend of mine, Charlie Drew,

wrote called by God to worship.

You got to make sure you send my greetings to Charlie Drew.

He used to be a pastor out on Long Island, New York, where I lived.

He was pastoring out in the Stony Brook area at a church called

Three Village Church, and we had gotten involved in a couple of

radio projects over the years, but I haven't seen or heard from Charlie in a long time.

But.

Tell us about called by God to worship.

Well, once again, you know, what we have here is essentially an exposition

of a passage of Scripture, a very familiar passage of Scripture from John chapter 4,

which

John,

in

John

4, that an intruder...

Yeah, that is quite a frequently discussed occurrence in the

Scriptures.

It's something, I think, that those who are

the outcasts of society, they may view themselves that way, or they may know that many others view them

that way.

It's one of those occurrences where even they can know they can be loved by

Christ in spite of if they are the scandal of the town,

in spite of the fact that if everyone looks demeaningly upon them

and whatever sin they have committed.

Obviously, the woman in this story was an adulteress, and

it's not clear to me whether she was married just multiple times or just sleeping around.

I'm not sure what Jesus meant by that.

Have you come to a final, solid conclusion on that?

I do think she probably.

Been

married

to

comfort

in that

for

all

of

us who recognize and

maybe on

that.

It

was

remarkable.

That they were even there, to tell you the truth, because the text starts out by informing us that

Jesus had to go through Samaria, and yet that was not the common practice of the day.

The common practice of the day for the Jews was you go as far as you have to to go around Samaria because you don't go through it.

And it was almost like Jesus had this divine appointment.

He deliberately made sure he was where she was.

And that's just to go back to talking about the one who pursues us.

Yeah, it's a great point.

It's a great point, Buzz.

I mean, not only does it show the depth of Jesus' mercy and

considered outcast, and

I think

you're right.

I think...

When you say that there's lessons that could be learned from that story by both

the group on the one side, who would be modern day Pharisees, who would be

Christians, who are so self -righteous that they never want to

risk ruining their reputations by even sitting down and having a conversation with

an overtly, scandalously lost person,

especially someone of this caliber, or perhaps even worse.

And then on the other side, you have those who frequently

enjoy the company of rebels and scandalous sinners, but in most

cases, or I shouldn't say in most cases, in many cases, they wind up appearing just like

them to the public.

They wind up perhaps imbibing in too much of the drink or whatever is going on in these

parties or gatherings and behaving too much like these people.

And they never do the right thing and evangelize these people

and let them know of their sin that needs to be repented of.

Whereas Jesus, although he reached out with compassion and love to this

scandalously sinful woman, he also was pretty abrupt with her.

He was using language that many would think, man, he was rude.

I mean, he flat out tells her, the husband that you have now isn't even yours.

So, I mean, isn't there a lesson to be learned by people on both sides of this issue of

fellowship, or should I say, not fellowship, but friendship and spending

time with those outside of the body.

Of

Christ?

Simply

just sort

of seek

out

those

who come to him,

but he won't

reject

people who would either reject and

then on

and

again in the Gospels.

Yes, I can

remember my very first pastor.

As a born -again Christian, Mike Gadosh, who is a guest on this program from time to time.

He's the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

I remember he had an excellent sermon years ago, Jesus, friend of sinners

and separate from sinners.

We have to be both, don't we, as Christians?

We have to be a friend of sinners.

We have to reach out with love and compassion to them with the Gospel.

We cannot keep the Gospel to ourselves selfishly and greedily as if we are the only ones

that matter in regard to our eternal life.

We have to really seek to share this message of eternal

life with all whom we know and meet when we have opportunity.

And yet we are not to become like these people.

We are not to follow in their footsteps and try to perhaps even seek to woo them

to the Church and to the Gospel like the Seeker Sensitive Movement by behaving like them in many.

Ways.

Yeah, that's a really good title.

Great.

We're going to

be going to our first break.

Today.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Jonathan Master, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

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But if you'd like to join us today with a question of your own for Jonathan Master on his

book, The God We Worship, Adoring the One Who Pursues, Redeems, and Changes His People, our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And we do have a listener.

It's our friend in Slovenia, Joe, who has a question for you.

He says, Dear Brother Chris, Welcome back to all of you.

So glad to hear your program again.

As a result of a small group study on Exodus 25 this week, and preparing to preach on

John 6 this Sunday, I was wondering about your thoughts regarding any notable connections

between the bread of the presence in Exodus 25 30

and Jesus's reference to himself as the bread of life in John 6.

In what, if any ways, is the God we worship represented or depicted in the bread of

presence on the table in the tabernacle?

Thanks for sharpening our focus on God's word, on the God we worship.

Do you have any comments on that, Jonathan?

You know, I don't have any offhand connecting it with John 6.

Of course, John 6 talks about this in

John 6 with the manna that was given in

the

wilderness, between

that and the provision

for his people.

So there's maybe a, I guess, my initial answer, and again I'm sort of doing this off a cup, is

there might be a kind of two degrees of separation there, but because I

think that the bread in the wilderness, the manna in the wilderness, is the

key element in understanding John 6.

But, you know, probably, you know, an hour or two after this, Joe, I'll probably,

I'll probably, my initial answer, I don't see a

direct connection there, but maybe some kind of indirect one.

It's sort of evocative.

Well, thanks for your question, Joe, and we don't.

Have any books today.

We gave them all away during our first interview on this subject, the God we worship, the last time we had Jonathan Master

on.

But keep listening to the program and keep spreading the word about it in Slovenia and

beyond.

Thanks a lot for always adding good questions to our discussion.

This book also has some other excellent authors.

In fact, every one of them that you have included in this book are excellent

preachers and teachers and writers.

Richard D. Phillips, who we've had on this program a number of times, in fact, Reverend Buzz Taylor and I just

had the privilege of hearing Richard D. Phillips preach at the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology

just a few weeks ago in, what's that suburb of Philadelphia?

Bryn Mawr.

It was Bryn Mawr.

Right, that's right.

And a proclamation Presbyterian church.

Gorgeous, gorgeous facility they have there.

And a very nice pastor.

I met him for the first time.

But in your book, Richard D. Phillips addresses

sought by Christ to worship, if you.

Could explain that a little further.

Yeah, before the break, we were talking about Charlie Drews, where he

deals with John.

Rick really ends up in the same place.

Rick spends a lot of time on John chapter 4 and the encounter with the woman at the well,

talking about

Exodus 25, people

from above the mercy seat from between the two cherubim.

And Rick makes some points about how it's so significant that the Lord meets with

his people at this place, and that the Lord, in a sense, is the one who

initiates the worship at the temple.

And then he transitions from talking about that old time,

again, Jesus, the woman at the well.

And he draws out, even perhaps more clearly than the previous chapter did, than

Charlie Drews' chapter, he draws out kinds of

things

as the one doing the seeking here.

Jesus is the one who is seeking out this woman

as of Him.

And so then, beautifully, as he

weaves of John 4

and of Exodus, God

works through,

even draws him into pastor.

Sort of blend of Old Testament, New Testament, and then personal testimony of the Lord's work in

Rick's own life.

Yes, in fact, I was speaking with a Reformed pastor recently, and he said,

whenever anybody has asked him, is your church seeker sensitive?

And he says, yes, we are always seeking to be sensitive to the

desires and commands of God, who is the seeker.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I've also heard people say that why are people spending so much time building

and designing churches and ministries specifically for people that don't exist.

Because of the fact that the Bible says there is no one who seeks, no, not one.

But people who are truly seeking are actually being drawn by God.

They're not seeking in their own initiative unless it is just to find some kind of

benefit out of the religion that you are a part of.

Am I right?

Absolutely.

And I think what's interesting, always the case 100 of the

time, but more often than not, when people's eyes are

open, when they are brought to life spiritually by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit,

and they are trusting in Christ for theirs, generally speaking, when that has

happened to you, that, you know, looking back, it was the Lord

who was seeking me.

So while they may, you know, at various points call themselves seekers,

usually in retrospect, that they

were being sought.

And so, you know, that perspective really changes, I think, when people are brought to saving faith.

They see that, boy, it was the Lord's work from beginning to end.

You know, I found out some interesting things, or actually some of the things that

were being said by one of the speakers at the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals pastors

retreat over the last few days.

John Nielsen was, as I said, one of the speakers.

He has a ministry that he is a part of in Princeton, New Jersey,

trying to be a light in the darkness there.

And he was talking about, he was basically breaking some of the

myths about Millennials.

And he was confirming some things that I just recently discovered,

at least with one individual, that surprised me.

He was saying things like, you know, people who are,

or should I say, churches that are worshiping God in an orderly,

traditional, and dignified fashion are not roadblocks,

or is not a roadblock to the Millennial who is

really being drawn by God and seeking out deeper truth.

And they are not drawn by some of the things that are typically

thought of as wise methodologies to

entice Millennials into your church by having hipper music and having the

ministers dress in a hip, relaxed way, and all these things that we

think of, dumbing down sermons, and on and on,

because of the fact that many of the Millennials, especially if they are being drawn

by God himself, they are very skeptical about

anything that appears to be a slick sales pitch.

And they see through a lot of this stuff with churches

trying to imitate the world as a way of enticing in unbelievers.

And he was saying that this is not something that, at least in his

experience, is something that is attractive to Millennials, because

they're kind of tired of that stuff.

They've already seen it and experienced it, and if they really want to learn

or discover a transcendent truth, they expect the church to be different

from the world.

They don't expect it to blend in with the world.

And I found out that, at least with one person, very recently, I was very

surprised, pleasantly surprised, when the daughter of the woman who led me to Christ in the

1980s, she had left the church years ago.

She was raised for a portion of her childhood in a very solid Bible -believing Reformed church.

She got married to a man who I believe is an agnostic.

They have a baby together, and she is having longings to be attached to the

church again, especially now that she's raising a child.

She doesn't even believe that she's regenerate yet.

She actually admits that.

She doesn't think that she's born again, but she wants to go to church, and she asked me for a church

recommendation near her in Orlando.

I called up some churches that I was aware of who pointed me to a church close to her,

and she contacted her mother, and she said, I hope Chris Arnzen's feelings aren't hurt, but I really am uncomfortable at this

church.

The people there are very nice and everything, but they seem very, very relaxed and

informal about what they're doing.

They're not taking it very seriously, it seems to me, and the band, the worship band, is more like an

entertainment time than a worship time to me.

I just don't feel comfortable, and I was amazed to hear this.

Do you have any comments on what I'm.

Saying here?

Yeah, I've noticed, and I

think that trend is accurate.

I think, no, I mean,

but I think it's true.

I do hear from students very often that they're actually turned off by what they perceive as a certain

manipulative kind of slickness, and that to them,

well, they're very savvy, so they can often see through that because they've been exposed to that kind

of savvy, or kind of slick manipulation for their whole

lives, and through it.

So, yeah, I mean, hard to make generalization that

that does seem to be a trend, and of course, that's a great thing, but, you know, we know theologically

that what John said at the conference that you just attended is absolutely true.

If God is the one drawing someone, then those kinds of superficial

things really aren't the issue.

So, I mean, I think he makes a really good and accurate

sociological observation, but what's going on is

that God is the one pursuing, and God is the one of bringing people

to repentance and faith.

And we're going to our midway break right now.

If.

Anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your name, your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence

if you live outside the USA, and you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable if you are

speaking or asking about a personal and private matter.

But don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Jonathan Master right after these words from our sponsors,

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors' Study every Saturday

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

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If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

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You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

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Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Chris.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Jonathan

Master.

We are discussing his book, The God We Worship, Adoring the One Who Pursues, Redeems, and Changes His People.

This is part two of our discussion on this subject that we began a couple of weeks ago

on this program.

Before we return to our discussion, I want to remind you about some important

events coming up, one of which includes our guest, Jonathan Master.

That would be the 2017 U .S. Ministers Conference, conducted by the Banner of Truth,

Tuesday, May 30th through Thursday, June 1st, in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, at the

Elizabethtown College.

The theme of the conference is The Living and Enduring Word, and the speakers include our guest, as

I mentioned, Jonathan Master, Joel Beeky, Jeff Thomas, William Vanderwerde,

Mark Johnston, Carlton Wynn, and Ian Hamilton.

If you'd like to join us there at this conference, or at this pastors

conference, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org,

click on Events, and then U .S. Ministers Conference, and I

believe they have this open to anyone in leadership, including deacons, and I

believe that pastors may also bring guests from the church with them, but you can ask

Banner of Truth about that, and ask your pastor about that, or tell your pastor about

that.

Banneroftruth .org, click on Events, and then click on U .S. Ministers Conference.

That's Tuesday, May 30th, through Thursday, June 1st,

and that's at Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

And then, not far after that, we have the Foundations Conference, which is a

conference orchestrated by Sermon Audio.

That's being held June 22nd and June 23rd in New York City on

350 West 26th Street in the Chelsea area of Manhattan,

and this has another great lineup of speakers, including Stephen J.

Lawson, Joel Beeky, Phil Johnson, who is the Executive Director of

Dr. John MacArthur's ministry, grace to you, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched

Radio.

And tomorrow's guests, we have on the program tomorrow, Alan Dunlop,

and he is going to be speaking about his book, I believe it's called The Confessions of a

Fundamentalist.

He is going to be discussing some of the things that he,

as someone who at one time identified with that group known as Independent

Separatist Christian Fundamentalists, he is going to be discussing what about that

movement he no longer finds

compatible with biblical Christianity.

And he's also obviously going to be very kind about it, because there are things that

he believes that are still important elements of

biblically faithful Christianity, but he thinks that it has tragically gone into a

direction that he no longer feels comfortable with aligning himself

with in regard to its departure from what he believes are biblical

standards and so on.

Confessions of a Fundamentalist, that is our topic tomorrow with Alan Dunlop, and he, as I said, is

one of the speakers at the Foundations Conference.

If you'd like more information about that conference, go to thefoundationsconference .com,

thefoundationsconference .com, and you'll have all the information you need on how to register, and I hope to

see you there as well.

And then in August, August 3rd through the 5th, in our co -host Reverend Buzz

Taylor's Old Stomping Grounds, the Fellowship Conference New England is being held in

Portland, Maine at the Deering Center Community Church on 4 Brentwood Street,

Portland, Maine, and the speakers at that event include Pastor Don

Curran, who is going to be my guest soon on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He is with Don Curran Ministries, and he is also

with the HeartCry Missionary Society in Radford, Virginia, which is the

organization founded by Paul Washer.

Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, who's been a guest in this program a number of times and has become

a dear friend.

Pastor Jesse Barrington of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, and Pastor Nate Pickowitz,

who is the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmantown Ironworks, New Hampshire,

and Pastor Pickowitz is also going to be a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to discuss

reviving evangelical Christianity in New England, and

which at one time was a bedrock of Bible -believing

Christians and churches, and has sadly been overcome and overwhelmed by liberalism

and nominalism and so on, but I'm looking forward to interviewing Pastor Nate Pickowitz, but

he is one of the speakers at Fellowship Conference New England.

Go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com for more details.

Fellowshipconferencenewengland .com, and if you go to any of these

conferences, please, I urge you to tell those in charge that you heard about the conferences

from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, especially bring that up when you are registering, and

I hope to meet you at those conferences where the Lord enables me to

show up, so I do plan on being at most of those events, and I'm not entirely sure

about others just because of my schedule and finances, but we hope to see you at as

many of those as possible.

And now we are going to finally bug you for money.

Lately, I have been nearly every day urging you to donate to Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio because of the fact that we are in desperate times these days financially.

If you are blessed by this program, if you believe it is important, if you find

yourself listening to it regularly and you have the finances to bless us with

a donation, I would love to receive a donation of any size that you can afford.

As always, we never want you siphoning money out of your giving to your church or off

your family's table if you are struggling to make ends meet, but if the

Lord has blessed you above and beyond your ability to comfortably do those things, I would love to receive a

donation of any size where you can mail it to an address made

available on IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

You click on support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com, and there will be an address

where you can mail checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio of any size that you would like,

and I look forward to receiving those checks, and also look forward to receiving emails from anyone

who desires to advertise on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, whether it is your church, your parachurch

ministry, your business, your corporation, a special event that you're having, or anything

that is compatible with the theological makeup of this broadcast.

So we would love to receive an email from you if you're interested in advertising, or if you could recommend somebody that you think might want

to advertise.

The email address again is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com, and put advertising in the subject line.

So I appreciate that very much, and hope to see you at

many, if not most, if not all of the events coming up that I have been announcing here on

Iron Sharpens Iron.

And it was great to, at Harvey Severs Bible Conference, to meet people

that are committed, they told me anyway, that are committed to begin listening regularly to the broadcast.

So I hope that is even the case today, and if any of you are listening today, hello

again, and perhaps we'll see you next year at Harvey Severs Bible Conference.

And don't forget to post those flyers.

Yeah, a lot of people were getting free Bibles donated by the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible.

With the promise, we were going by the honor system, if they promised to hang a flyer for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in their

church, they got a free Bible.

So we hope that those folks have not wrapped their lunch in those flyers, or put them in

the parrot cage, or anything like that.

We hope that you actually hang them in your churches, or the churches where you are a member.

My friend Bill Shishko, who has an ad every day on the show, who I mentioned before, he has reprimanded me

many, many times when I have said, my church or your church.

He always says to me, brother, it is not your church, it is the church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So I have to remember that before Pastor Bill gives me another rebuke.

But if you'd like to join us on the air right now with a question for Jonathan Master, we are

returning to our discussion on The God We Worship, Part Two.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And we do have a question from Charlie Liebert of

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, who is the founder of sixdaycreation .com.

Sixdaycreation .com.

And those of you who listen to Iron Trip and Zion Radio know that Charlie, from time to time, is the

co -host or guest on this program, especially when it has something to do with the creation versus

evolution debate, or the young earth versus old earth creation debate.

And Charlie asks, what are the consequences of Arminian theology and evangelism

as opposed to the Reformed view?

Jonathan?

And thanks for all the work you're doing.

One that comes to mind immediately is it

then depends on you as the evangelist to kind of close the deal.

And that has all kinds of consequences.

If you believe that it depends on you as the evangelist to kind of close the deal, to make the sale,

so to speak, when presenting the gospel, then first of all, that can lead, it

doesn't always do this, but it can lead to

manipulating people at really sort of trying to

make this deeply emotional appeal that may not, in fact, be clear about

the realities of the message in its totality.

You may be tempted to sort of sand down the sharp edges of some of Christ's words.

The other thing I think, ultimately, is it can lead to a deep, deep frustration.

All of us who have had any experience in evangelism have experienced

failure in the sense that, you know, you share the gospel with someone and they

don't immediately respond.

And of course, in an ultimate sense, it's not ours to regard, but

it feels like a failure in any case.

And I think what happens is the more you're reliant on your own efforts to

persuade people, I think the more ultimately discouraged and frustrated

you'll become because you'll face the rejection that, remember, Jesus

himself faced.

I mean, if you look through the Gospel of John, when you see Jesus present very clearly and forcefully who he

is, there's always some

rejection.

And that's, I

think, it relies on you.

Number one, you're going to change the message.

You're going to, you're going to at least be tempted to change the message.

And number two, I think you have

any self -awareness or honesty at all.

Now, there are people who just celebrate themselves of having

brought people to cry,

really deep self -awareness.

Of course,

we all know people who we have witnessed

to, we have prayed for them,.

And they died without Christ.

This is a Reverend Buzz Taylor speaking, by the way.

So, you know, and to put the burden on them that it was because they didn't

say it right, that's just too much.

And yet I've even heard on Christian radio, you know, that if you did it right, anybody would come to Christ.

Well, that just simply is not so.

And, you know, to put a guilt trip on somebody that if I had only learned a little bit more about how to present the gospel,.

They might've been saved.

We don't have to worry about that.

Yeah, Buzz, that's a great point.

I have this book and I always, I have kept the book, not because it's really any good, but because it has this

quote that every time I go back to it, the book is, it's a book from the mid 20th

century called Soul Winning Made Easy.

And it's from a pastor.

Somewhere in Indiana was that pastor?

It may, I can't remember.

But you know, I'll tell you, if the title wasn't enough, the opening paragraph

will really get you because it basically, the author as much as says what you just said, which is, I am

convinced that anyone with the right, you know, training and

if they sort of say things the right way, is able to

bring anyone to Christ.

I mean, it's that pronounced the message.

And boy, in addition to that just being false at every level and just.

What a discouragement that will be.

Oh yes.

I want to read an excerpt on this subject right now from an

excellent booklet that is published by Chapel Library

by James E. Adams, not to be confused with J. Adams, James

E. Adams.

It's called Decisional Regeneration.

Oh yeah.

And in this booklet, James E. Adams says,

the false teaching of decisional regeneration has even polluted the structure of the

sermon.

Jack Hiles, considered by many to be an authority on preaching, gives the

following advice to his fellow ministers.

Many in our preaching will make such statements as, now in

conclusion, finally, may I say, may last

point, my last point is, these statements are sometimes dangerous.

The sinner knows five minutes before you finish, hence he

digs in and prepares himself for the invitation so that he does not

respond.

However, if your doing is abrupt and a lost person does not

suspect that you are about finished, you have crept up on him

and he will not have time to repair himself for the invitation.

Many people may be reached using this method.

I mean, he is basically saying you can trick people to be saved.

Yeah.

And if anybody would like to get this booklet, by the way, it's an excellent booklet, it's chapellibrary .org,

chapellibrary .org, and look for Decisional Regeneration by James E. Adams.

But this is pretty monstrous, isn't it, Jonathan?

You, as being someone who has been involved in churches and the

academic realm and so forth, for ministers to be trained to trick people into

salvation, as if that could ever occur.

I guess, in some ways, if Arminianism was biblically true, he

might have had a point or something, but obviously, there are

enough false converts polluting the church and embarrassing the church and

Christianity in the 21st century without us having to trick more unbelievers

into the church so that.

They can masquerade as being Christians also.

Well, you know, that's a great point, too.

I mean, obviously, that's another part

of the question.

I think what another result, yet a lot of

even people who begin to

become part of a church, but they're just, they're not Christians, they

have never

heard, and they then

become deceived and live in a kind of self -deception, the church

unbelievers.

And so I think it's a great point at a corporate level, what this can lead

to, a big,

large

group of unbelieving people who have not

encountered.

Yeah, it's mind -boggling.

And of course, I have to be quick to say here that there are many who identify

themselves as independent fundamentalist Baptists who are equally grieved by such statements.

Not every fundamentalist Baptist out there is a big fan of Jack Hiles and his

writing or methodology or preaching.

I've met a number of them who...

Oh, thank you for pointing that out, too, Chris, because that's the kind of fundamentalist I was.

Really?

Oh, I was very much against all that stuff.

Yes.

Oh, that you were against?

Oh, I was against it.

Okay.

Yes, I went to Jack Hiles' pastor's school for a week.

He opened up his place for pastors to come see how they did it.

And I was mortified by the stuff I saw there.

Yeah, for those of you who are unaware of Reverend Buzz Taylor's pilgrimage, he began in

the independent fundamentalist Baptist circles, where he went to Bob Jones University, then

became a charismatic, and then became a minister within the Church of God,

Findlay, Ohio denomination, which is like a Wesleyan Baptist group or Nazarene type group.

And then he became Presbyterian.

Yes.

And sadly to me, being a Reformed Baptist, he just leaped right over the Reformed Baptists.

Well, I didn't want to waste any more time getting where I was going.

Maybe I should be happy that you never became a Reformed Baptist.

But anyway, thank you, Charlie Liebert, in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, for your

excellent question.

And I look forward to your return as co -host or guest on Iron Trutman's Iron Radio.

And let me give you another plug for your website.

It's sixdaycreation .com.

Sixdaycreation .com, and the word six is spelled out.

It's not the number.

It's S -I -X daycreation .com.

And the next chapter that you have in your book is quite intriguing.

And this is written by the only person involved in this book that I have

not yet interviewed, Joseph Ryan, Joseph

Skip Ryan.

He wrote a chapter called Guided by God's Sovereign Providence.

And tell Joseph Ryan or Skip Ryan that he has an open door here on Iron Trutman's

Iron Radio to be interviewed if you ever.

Get in touch with him again.

Yeah, thanks.

Skip Niff again.

The providence of God is another doctrine and another angle

to talk about, spend a lot of our time talking about God's sovereignty

and salvation, God being the one who pursues, God being the one who redeems, God being the one who changes.

And really what Skip talks about how all of life, including,

you know, our life are

used by God to bring, but really everything in our life

is guided by, and he

explores that in several different

paths.

And let's

see, we have

RJ in White Plains, New York,.

Who says, don't you think that although much of modern -day

Arminianism is giving a false message when they evangelize, or

at least, at the very least, a distorted one, don't you think that in our day and age it is

alarming how many Reformed people seem to be adopting Arminian methods of evangelism,

such as seeker -sensitive type worship services?

I think it is alarming,.

This is where the labels will

embrace a label without maybe thinking through the implications of

the theology that historically has been denoted by that.

But you're right, in our

Reformed theology, we have to recognize that some of these things are just man

-made methods,

and the work of God and salvation.

And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right, a lot of things that go under that

label or under that umbrella don't look too different

to be avowedly

non -Reformed and anti -Calvin.

But, you know, sometimes tough to some of those

labels.

It's a good reminder, though, RJ, I mean, it's a good reminder for all of us that we need to think

through the implications of our theology for all of our life, and it's

sometimes easy for us to embrace an individual in

general.

I'm going to take our final break

right now, so

that I don't

have to.

Interrupt my guest in mid -sentence.

But if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, now is the time to do

it, because we are running out of time.

And I ask of you to give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country

of residence, if you live outside of the USA.

And you may remain anonymous, if it makes you feel more comfortable, but we would ask that

if it's not a personal matter, that you please at least give us the first name, city, and state, and country

of residence.

So don't go away, God willing, we're going to be right back after this final station break

with our guest, Jonathan Master, and our discussion on the God we worship.

We look forward to hearing from you soon with your questions.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

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and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

Hcbible

.org.

Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

And if you go to Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center in the beautiful area of New

Jersey where this conference center is located, Long Beach Island in New

Jersey, please let Don Oldman, or should I say, I'm sorry, John

Oldman and the folks at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center know that you heard about them through Iron

Sharpen's Iron Radio.

As I've been announcing for quite a while, that was the location of the Faithful Shepherd

Retreat sponsored by the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that the Reverend Buzz Taylor and

I just attended this week, Monday through Wednesday.

And it is a gorgeous place, and if you have not yet picked a location for your

own ministries event, your conference, your retreat, whatever it is that you are

trying to orchestrate, whether it's a very small handful of folks or a

fairly large group of, I believe they can accommodate over 100

people, and I can't remember the exact number right now, but it's definitely a fairly large group of people that can be

accommodated at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center.

Go to hcbible .org.

Hcbible .org if you would like to use their facilities for any event, and

again, please let them know at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center

that Chris Arnzen and Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio told you about

them, and specifically look up John Oldham, O -L -D -H -A -M,

who is the owner and director of Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center, and he's also the mayor of

the town, Harvey Cedars.

So let him know that you heard about them through Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio,

and I also want to, hold on a second, Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Well, I was just thinking that we mentioned that the food was even good.

Yes, that was one of the best aspects of being there.

Very good food.

It was a good time.

Very often when you go to places like that, it's like very

industrial cafeteria food, but this is quite delicious homemade

cooking, homemade style cooking.

Wonderful fellowship and everything, too, around the tables.

It was great.

Yeah, and figured you'd bring up the food, though.

Yes, of course.

And I also want to let our listeners know something that I failed to mention the last time I was announcing

events.

The G3 Conference has finally been arranged for 2018, and I

will be there, God willing, with an exhibitor's booth, and I hope that many of you

greet me at that exhibitor's booth this coming January for the G3

Conference, and there's going to be a whole host of excellent speakers and

topics addressed, and I really had such an enjoyable time the

last time I was there, and hope that that is

repeated the next time, January 18th through the 20th

in Atlanta, Georgia, and a whole bunch of great speakers there

that I'm sure will be a blessing to you, including Paul Washer, Steve

Lawson, Vody Baucom, H .P. Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice,

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries is one of my dearest friends, Tom Askell, and

Michael Kruger, who is quite a brilliant young man who's president of Reform Theological

Seminary in North Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina.

He was at one time a pastoral intern at the church where I am now a member, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Paul Tripp, who is a prolific writer and a well -known speaker amongst Reformed folks,

Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, and Derek Thomas, who is also quite a well

-known writer and conference speaker amongst the Reformed, Welshman, and

I have interviewed him as well.

I've interviewed, I think, 99 of everybody on that roster, and I hope to interview the rest

of them before this conference.

But if you have any further details that you'd like to explore, or if

you'd like to register, and I hope you do, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and please

tell them that you heard about them through Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Well, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question regarding the God we worship, now is the time to do it.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Once again, I apologize for the malfunctioning with our advertisements and the sputtering and the

delays and all these things, the lagging.

I'm not sure what's going on here.

We go away for three days, and there's utter chaos here in the studio.

I'm near brain dead from a lack of sleep and all kinds of stuff going on here, but

I think that we are, nonetheless, having an excellent interview today with Jonathan

Master, my guest, and now's the time to email us at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We do have a listener, BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks,

would you recommend that someone go to an Arminian church nearest

them if.

Traveling to a Reformed church is much too far away for reasonable

travel?

Sounds like, you know,

I think you should be involved in a local church, and

if there's no way you could have any involvement and possibly not even, you know,

participate in regular worship on Sunday at another

congregation, then I would say, you know, find the best place you can

in a reasonable distance, and that's going to look different for everybody.

You know, some people don't have a car.

You know, some people live in an area where there just aren't too many sound churches, and

so you do your best.

I've lived overseas for a period of time, and during those those periods, I can

assure you that there weren't as many options, and so, you

know, you try to find the most congregation

that you can get to.

So, you know, a little hard to answer without, you

do the, you find the best, most faithful place you

can within a distance, be engaged.

And an answer that was given by a.

Recent guest of mine, David Engelsma, a couple of weeks ago, without hesitation, he

immediately just.

Said, move!

There you go.

No, it's always the option of, you can start a church in your area,.

Maybe.

Well, yeah, that's a bit difficult, especially if you have, there's a lot of,.

I hear this so many times, because, well, I think of all, in my own family, all the people that live

in a place where there aren't really good reformed churches.

What do you do?

It's.

Difficult.

Well, obviously, not just anyone is biblically qualified to just start a

church.

I'm sure you would agree with that.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm assuming you mean that they should contact a solid, a biblically solid church and

request, or churches, and try to get cooperation from one of them to plant

the church.

Yeah, take what steps they can, of course.

Right.

And of course, some people are just lazy.

They don't even want to drive 20 minutes or something to a biblically faithful church.

And wouldn't a lot of that depend on how far off from biblical truth these Arminian

churches that are local are?

I mean, if it's really intolerable, if they are so far off the biblical

radar, don't you recommend that they really have to make

preparations to move because, or as Buzz was saying, if it's possible to get a church planted in their area, but

the more likelihood is it's going to be easier for them to move than that.

To occur?

Yeah, I mean, all of those things would need to be considered.

I think that, you know, it sounded to me, from in

many ways, trying to be biblically faithful, but differs on these

key, important, vital doctrines, and so without minimizing those,

that there are no churches.

Yeah, I mean, then I think you need to take more serious measures.

I will say this, though, as a serious point, I know that

the man you're interviewing who said move, I will say

this, that I do think when people are moving, if you're looking, considering a new job,

if you're considering moving your family somewhere, I do think it's appropriate to look ahead of

time and to consider ahead of time what churches will be in the area.

I've met a number of people over the years who move to a

new place without any consideration at all of where they

might church, and

finding that there's nothing there for their well

-being, it's not exactly

the same, but I do think it's a situation some people find

themselves in, and look, this is...

The next chapter that we have in the book by someone I have

interviewed a couple of times, I believe, Philip Graham Reichen, redeemed by God's sovereign

mercy, if you could explain in.

More detail.

Phil does, and you know, it's funny because as I'm

walking you through these, some themes are emerging that I...

Excellent,

and we move

on from

there

to

someone

I

haven't.

Interviewed in a while, but I have interviewed him a number of times, and I'm looking forward to his return,

Michael Horton.

I know Michael Horton so long that I can remember the days when he was single and was

asking me, do you think you know of any sweet Reformed Baptist ladies that might want to

donate, want to get to know a single

Presbyterian pastor?

And that's how long I've known Michael, because he's been happily married for quite some time, and I believe has children,

but he has always been a favorite of mine.

Michael Horton says...

Michael Horton's topic of this book, in this book, is sanctifying grace, if you could

expand upon that.

Well, it's a chapter, obviously, about the Lord's sovereignty in our sanctification as well,

so it's, you know, one of the great truths that we can often forget is that not only is

God sovereign in saving us and bringing us to a knowledge of his Son, but God is

also...

...from Romans 7, I

share this...

And one of my

favorite

guests is Michael

A .G. Haken,

who's been.

On this program a number of times.

He has a chapter titled, The Spirit of Holiness, if you could expand.

On that one.

Yeah, well,

when A .I.

Packer, I

think, first

became a Christian

back in the

middle,

concerned with...

And that

shift,

he said...

And we have

another

chapter by someone else who I have.

Interviewed, Dr. Al Mohler.

He has been on this program once, and I look forward to having him back.

Know the truth.

How does this fit in with the God we worship?

Yeah, this is a very hard -hitting chapter, not

in any

contrast

to that.

And we

also

have someone

else

who I've

interviewed.

Several times on Iron Sharpens Iron, and he's long overdue for another interview,

Dr. D .A. Carson, quite a brilliant expositor, who has been at several of the

conferences I have been attending recently, not the most recent in Harvey Cedars, New Jersey, but

he has been at some others that I have been in Indianapolis and others.

What does Dr. Carson mean by, I am the truth, and I'm assuming he's not speaking

about himself.

And last but not least, once again, Richard D. Phillips has

a second chapter called, Our Holy Redeemer.

And if you could expand upon that chapter.

Yeah, it's a

beautiful

chapter, Our

Holy Redeemer.

We know, of course, from Hebrews,

that it contrasts the perfect high

priesthood.

I have

an

anonymous listener from

New York State.

Who says, I have heard the host, Chris Arnzen, on a number of occasions

on Iron Sharpens Iron radio, criticize the beliefs of other denominations

and religious groups within Christendom.

Is that necessary or even right?

Should we just be speaking the truth as we see it without criticizing others?

Okay, that's a valid question.

What is your view on that?

There are

times

where

we

need

to

be

very direct,

go mandate.

I mean, the Apostle Paul, even by name, called out error with Hymenaeus and Philetus, correct?

Absolutely.

He called out error with Hymenaeus and Philetus.

He called out error to peace.

That's right.

You

see, Anonymous,

so

stop being such

a jerk about it.

By the way, I hope my anonymous listener knows I was just kidding about that.

I was trying to play into his critique of me.

But anyway, I think the people that know me are aware of the fact that even though I am

very open and strongly convicted about my

Calvinism and my theologically reformed views, and the

apprehension I have about what's going on in modern day evangelicalism with

the ecumenical movement going wild, with more and more

evangelicals caving in in regard to ecumenism with the Roman Catholic Church.

And I'm speaking as a former Roman Catholic here.

People may perceive that I am always criticizing others, but I think that I do so with fairness, and I don't do it

with ad hominem nastiness.

And if I ever do that, you could call me out on it and point out where I do that.

And if I have done that, I truly do apologize for that to whoever I

have, you know, rubbed the wrong way or what have you.

But I'd like you in about 90 seconds or so just wrap up and summarize what you most want etched.

In the hearts and minds of our listeners, Jonathan.

With respect to this book, what I continue to think

about and be reminded of is, first of all, the sovereignty of

God brings us,

will glorify us one day.

But secondly, I would

want, we can get

caught up in many very important

the way in which we worship.

But I would want us to give at least equal attention to who it is that

we are directing our worship to, and the greatness and such.

And we are out of time,.

And for those of you who want to learn more about Jonathan Master, go to Cairn .edu, C -A

-I -R -N .edu.

And you can also go to C -V -B -B -S .com, C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for BibleBookService

.com to order books by Jonathan Master.

It's been such a privilege and joy to have you back on the program.

And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.