June 12, 2017 Show with Ken Samples on “Without A Doubt: Answering the 20 Toughest Faith Questions (Part 2)”

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Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity

living on the planet Earth.

Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com?

Well, I'm welcoming you all to have a happy Monday on this 12th June 12th day of

June 2017.

I'm really tongue -tied this afternoon.

I don't know why But today we have in the program or on the program

Returning to iron sharpens iron radio a dear friend of mine going back to the late 1980s Kenneth

our samples philosopher theologian former senior research consultant and Correspondence editor

at the Christian Research Institute former co -host of the Bible Answer Man radio broadcast and

current senior research scholar at reasons to believe RTB as it's known.

He's the author of the Christian endgame seven truths that changed the world

a world of difference and more and leader of Reason to believe straight

thinking podcast.

He's host of the reflections blog.

He's a speaker at universities and churches worldwide and frequent guests on radio programs such as the

Frank Sontag show Issues etc. Stand to reason and iron sharpens iron radio.

He's an adjunct professor at Biola University and member of the Evangelical Philosophical Society and the Evangelical

Theological Society and the International Society of Christian Apologetics.

We are having Ken return today to discuss part two of

his book without a doubt answering the 20 toughest faith questions and

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Kenneth our samples

Made my pleasure.

I think one of the reasons I was tongue -tied doing the announcements is that I was discussing my late

wife with you before we went on the air and The emotions well up at on occasion,

but I have I have the very fond memories in specific or specifically

Of being in a gourmet restaurant that is no longer in existence, but it was called Sherry's

it was on the water in Babylon Village Long Island and

You you and my wife and I had a wonderful time for dinner while you were visiting Long Island and

That was the first place that I ever had escargot Snails, I don't think I've had them

since either, but I did enjoy them I was amazed how much I enjoyed them, but they were covered with garlic butter

and so on.

So I guess you could you could eat a shoe if it was covered with garlic.

And also I had I think at one time frogs legs there, but anyway Very

very sweet memories and precious memories and I know that my wife thought the world of you,

but obviously the questions As you

identify them in your book without a doubt are The toughest faith questions

and you have 20 of them and since they are tough faith questions We only in a two -hour

span last time Only we're able to cover three of them and those

were The how can we know God exists we discussed for a

bit the theodicy how we can Defend God as being

good in the midst of evil, which is rampant in the world.

That.

Classic centuries -long enigmatic question.

That.

That has been going on ever since men could think I'm assuming and whatever.

Since the fall anyway, and.

The.

The questions that we have ahead of us.

I am sure going to be equally important.

Before we even go into those questions.

Well, first of all, let me give the email address for our listeners.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen gmail .com and our listeners can give me at least your first

name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

But tell us why You wrote this book to begin with and why did

you select the 20 questions that you did.

Were these questions that you have been asked throughout your Not only life as a Christian

but in your career as an apologist.

Were these the most frequently asked questions or how did you develop this list?

Yeah, Chris, thank you put this

list together.

Really from a couple different.

It's been a good bit out

2020 look college.

So some of

the questions

that are in my book I derived from

pickle also on the Bible Answer Man I was asked

lots of different questions.

And so I tried to divide the book up into questions that focus on

God and God's exist.

The second part who

he is Lord

of our sins from the grave and

Then the third part or just kind of that people have

they relate to you

know the problem

I don't know if these are exactly the the the most Difficult or toughest.

Among the most challenging and difficult the good news

is we.

That's why I wrote the book and can reflect about these challenges

so that when they have opportunities They could answer people's question

and give evidence.

That's kind of the backdrop on why I wrote the book.

Amen.

Well, we thank the Lord that you did Develop this book

and that it was published By the good people at Baker and

The the first question I'd like to address with you, which is a very controversial

Issue it's amazing that it is controversial but it is because one of the reasons I say it's controversial

is because even conservative Bible -believing born -again Christians

Disagree with this and that is the existence or use or

adopting of creeds of the faith and The way that you title this in your book.

This section is aren't the creeds a thing of the past?

First of all, why don't you define a creed?

Also known as a confession of faith.

Some people differentiate the two but some Probably most use the term

synonymously, but if you could give us a definition of what you mean by that.

Yes a creed the Latin is credo.

I believe It creed is is within church

history statement of faith an expression of the

essentials of historic Christianity.

Sometimes creeds can be very short.

In fact, they're most primitive creed in Christianity, which is in the New

Testament and Probably a dozen does

Jesus is Lord That was a creed to express the truth that Jesus was

Yahweh That Jesus was Lord even above Caesar and all the

other Greco -Roman deities.

So creeds tend to want to focus on the very essence of the faith.

As Christianity went on creeds developed they grew by the time of the Protestant Reformation.

You have what we call taken fairly brief creeds

like the Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed's a little bit longer the Athanasian Creed is a

Lengthy creed dealing with both the deity and humanity in Christ as well as the doctrine of the Trinity.

But by the time you have the Reformation the Lutherans the Reformed the Baptist the

Anglican confessional statements that go even further and You

know the creeds are are very important.

I like to tell people especially people who were uneasy with creeds.

Maybe they've grown up in a non liturgical Church.

Sometimes I hear things like you know, nope, but Christ, of course, that sounds a little

bit like a creed.

That is a creedal statement.

I.

Like to let people know that there are creeds in Scripture.

I mean chapter 6 verse 4 called the

Shema.

The word Shema is Hebrew for here

something a testimony to

Monotheism that Israel was God's chosen people.

That creedal statement is probably recited more than maybe any passage in the

Bible because Throughout Judaism, it's recited

within the New Testament.

New Testament scholars have discovered Chris over the maybe the last bit

that it appears that there were very Early creeds.

I'm going to call them primitive because I'm going to distinguish the very earliest period of

Christianity.

Gentiles had not yet become the dominant people group within Christianity.

Well New Testament scholars have recognized that there are creeds and sometimes even parts

of hymns that were weaved into the New Testament by people like the

Apostles Peter and Paul.

For example Philippians 2 has part of an ancient creed an ancient hymn.

There's one in Colossians 1.

There's also that talks about Christ

died.

He was buried and First Corinthians

chapter 8 there are a number of places in which creeds appear.

So I like to encourage people to recognize that creeds Actually existed

before there was a Bible.

The Apostles used creeds weaved them into the Bible and You know the creeds that

we have like the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed.

I think the Nicene Creed is the most commonly used creed within Christendom.

Roman Catholics affirm it at least conservative Catholics theologically.

Eastern Orthodox affirm it although they may want to differ over the filioquy clause.

That's the idea that the father the

Holy Spirit Holy Spirit and Then it's

of course affirmed by most of.

I'd like to encourage people to recognize that creeds can be very

useful.

Of course, they're not a creed

like the Apostles Creed or Nicene Creed or if it's a confessional statement like the Belgic

and Berg Catechism or the Westminster Catechism

or one of the Confessional for

the Savoy Declaration.

That's right those those creeds and

already they derive their the

truth of Scripture and Chris, I think that the creeds that we have in Christendom.

Sometimes we call them the ecumenical creeds.

I think they have been so influential.

Because in large part they

sure there are places in the creed.

That are contentious that are challenging.

The Apostles Creed that you know Christ descent,

but I think creeds have been very helpful.

They can help us educate our young people.

Be secondary.

And so I'm very big on creeds that I'm also very big on trying to help people That are

not used to creeds or feel uneasy about them.

To feel a bit more comfortable and that's what I do in that chapter in my book.

Yes, as you Mentioned at the outset of what you were saying

Everybody really has a creed whether they want to recognize it with that terminology or not.

If you have a list of things that you believe are of primary importance

That are taught in the scriptures Once you begin speaking about those

Important things especially if you write them down in some document like even your church bulletin

That is a creedal statement or a confession.

Even if you had as a belief like some Unitarian Universalists might believe

that all religions lead to God and That kind of a thing that's still a creed.

And even if you had some strange informal

Liberal church or organization that said you could believe anything you want to believe that's even a creed.

That's a creedal statement, but it's just very bad.

And.

What you were saying earlier about people who were raised in a Non

-confessional church perhaps an independent Baptist Church or something like that that they may be.

They may be apprehensive about the terminology like creed confession and even catechism.

But I would even add to that that might be especially true for people who like myself were

Were Roman Catholic for a good portion of our lives and left that I? think that those

folks might be even more skeptical or apprehensive about.

Wrongly, they would be wrongly thinking that they would be returning to some kind of

aberrant teaching of the Church of Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy, but.

A creed is is only as good as its contents and it's only as good as it is faithful to the

scripture, right?

That's exactly right.

And I you know, I recognize having grown up Catholic as well.

But there are times people think well if you're a feeder than I see in

creed, you know, that's kind of Catholic.

I don't mind being called Catholic.

I'm just not Roman

but you need not be a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox to.

And I think sometimes Chris, I'm a little more Uncomfortable when churches don't have a

statement of faith that don't have an explicit creedal statement.

I would never attend a church if it did not state and openly and clearly

and carefully what it believed and so I think that You've hit it on the

head.

I mean from a Protestant point authority of the creed is

The very

truth of Scripture.

Now now, you know some of the creeds like the Nicene Creed Which is a pretty big slice of

historic Christianity or the Apostles Creed?

They don't get into every issue are important.

The Nicene Creed the Apostles Creed don't but not at

least not directly.

Soteriology is strangely absent in any kind of weighty.

Significance.

That's exactly right in the in the Apostles Creed that I see and create the Athanasian Creed which are

Very popular creeds in the Western Church.

They do not address the Queen Grace

faith and good works seemingly

valuable Needed

to and Examined and that's one reason why the Protestant

confessional statements are longer and more detailed because there were issues

authority of God's Word and the question of salvation.

Became very specific.

So I think creeds can be very educational, but

it does.

We do need to recognize that evangelical perspective.

The creeds are simply conveying the truth.

Now some have.

Contrasted a creed from a confession by saying a creed is

typically a shorter list of truths Intended to

bring about or demonstrate unity whereas a confession is a more lengthy and

detailed document Which is used primarily to distinguish

a church from the pack to set itself apart From others by being more

focused on Soteriological matters on ordinances and things like that

where they Desire to show their their own

uniqueness or difference from those around them, but would you agree with that?

Contrast in those terms or we just quibbling over you know

unnecessarily quibbling over terminology I.

Find that to be actually a very insightful point of view.

I'd never heard it put just that way, but I agree with it.

I think that I think creedal statements again talking about ecumenical

creedal statements the Apostles Creed the Nicene those

tend to emphasize the unityplicity

not Roman Catholic the broad area of agreement I think by

the time you get to the Protestant Reformation and you begin having confessional statement.

They do go sometimes

to distinguish from

Arminian maybe Lutheran from Baptist, etc.

And obviously the more you begin to broader issues.

You're going to raise questions to raise

question people agree.

I Appreciate the role of both of those.

I like to know exactly.

Where is there if it can is that it

also like to know is not just

in the broad.

Rare, of course our times where it's important for a

person to distinguish themselves.

Syrian.

It's certainly appropriate for I

will tell you this and it's part.

I think yes Lewis Lewis

said

debate to

be among Christians not

not wanting to.

Maybe offend or drive away non -christians.

I I think there is a time and this is my view Chris.

If I'm going to debate a person, let's say I'm going to debate a Roman Catholic or let's say I'm going to

debate a Baptist.

I want to know where do we agree?

How important are those agreements then?

Where do we disagree and how?

Significant are the differences and I think it's important in terms of apologetic to.

You know when if you're if you're going to debate pre -millennial Amillennial post -millennial

are you going to debate the merits of infant baptism or?

Only baptizing older.

Those are we'll think we want to get it

in the way and give people the impression that Christianity is deeply divided.

I think Christianity has some major divisions.

But sometimes we can give non -christians the impression that we can't agree on anything.

And so I know you have played a role in I

find them helpful and meaningful and purposeful.

But I like to let people know.

Where do we agree and how important is the agreement then?

I think it sets the stage for a careful discussion of where we disagree

and what are the implications?

Yes, it's interesting that you're saying that because my very dear friend of many years.

Dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is taking some heat.

From.

Some folks some even professedly reformed because they think that he is being

too kind and accommodating when he has

public theological dialogue with Muslims and James White is not

One of these individuals inviting people to a tea party where they're just going to be blowing kisses

at each other from across the table and Saying how sweet and lovely it

is that they have so much in common, but on the other hand if you are

expecting people to be Painstakingly accurate as to what you believe

and if you expect them to treat you with dignity and integrity And if you

expect them not to distort twist or Caricature or make a

caricature of what you believe then why would you do that to them?

Why would you?

Try to place words in their mouth or Make declarations that they believe certain things

that they don't.

So it's a shame to see Brothers in Christ be so

harsh against our dear brother James because it's it's kind of in some ways I can't help but find it humorous because for most of his

Career as a as an apologist people have accused him wrongly and slanderously of being

too Sectarian nasty hard -nosed and bigoted and so on which none of those are

true.

But of course he he and I think every Christian should be very firm

About truth, especially when it involves salvific issues and

I believe that we do have much in common with our Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox friends.

But I do believe that since especially with Rome where you have a dogmatic

Pronouncement of anathemas against those who believe in justification by faith alone through grace alone

By grace alone through faith alone, I should say and many other of the other primary tenets

of soteriology Since that stands as an anathema.

I cannot just give a blanket Open door of brotherly fellowship to my Roman Catholic

friends and neighbors because that is still a binding Contrast or

separation that Rome has as their official teaching.

Now, of course as you know There are individual Catholics that either consciously or unconsciously

are disagreeing with their own churches Dogma, but those that know the

issue I believe that we have to make it clear that these are very dangerous areas.

Don't you agree that we can't soft pedal certain things?

I.

Think that's I think that's the critical point.

I think you've said it well Chris.

I think that you know, we don't want to misrepresent other people.

We because we don't want our faith misrepresented we want to present our

case with Clarity,

but we can't back that

is absolutely critical.

I think Catholics and Protestants share a lot in common.

Does concern me deeply that the anathemas from the Council of Trent which was

the Catholic?

Counter -reformation Council.

Even though Vatican to separated brethren none of the anathemas

have been official withdrawn not even by their most liberal Pope in history.

That that's exactly right.

So I think your point is a very powerful one and that is there just as

it is important to present our respect

and the

honorable

or life and your doctrine and We've got many

other areas would

like to depart from historic

Christianity and like to criticize it.

It's important that Christians stand up for their faith.

Amen, and I'm going to be going to a.

Station break.

Right now and before I go to the break I am going to

email you a list of questions by a listener in

Bensalem Ben Salem, Pennsylvania.

Her name is Jenny and I want you to have them right in front of you.

Just so you could think about them during the station break and so you should be receiving

this list.

Look for it under my iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com account and.

And.

So we'll have you address each of those issues when we come back from the break, I'll read

one of them now.

The first of her four questions and they're all good.

I usually don't let people ask a whole bunch of questions, but her questions are so good.

I Think it would benefit us to have You answer them and you did actually address this in

one of our previous Interviews, but I believe a lot of people have not heard that.

The first question is what is your opinion concerning Hank Hanegraaff abandoning?

Protestantism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

Is he still qualified to be Protestants.

Bible answer man?

Well, have you answer that when we return from the break and there are other questions.

She asks as well.

And.

Would love to hear from more of you.

In fact, there are some more of you still waiting to have your questions asked and answered and we'll get to each of you as time

allows.

But our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA and.

Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing. We'll be right back with Kenneth.

Our samples.

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Our guest today for the full two hours with 90 minutes to go is Kenneth.

Our samples.

We are discussing part two of his book without a doubt answering the 20

toughest faith questions.

Discussion we began a number of weeks ago on this program and we only got to three of those 20

At that time and we hope to get to more than three today, but let's see what happens.

These are very deep questions that involve thorough answers if you

want to actually communicate anything meaningful, but if you'd like to.

Join us on the air with a question.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And before the break we had a question from Jenny and Ben

Salem.

Pennsylvania.

Shit, we have a series of questions and the first one that I read to you was.

What is your opinion concerning Hank Hanegraaff abandoning Protestantism for Eastern Orthodoxy?

Is he still qualified to be Protestantism's?

Bible.

Answer man.

Yeah, I worked at the Christian from

1987 through 1993 one of the

first Walter Martin the founder

of Walters Bible class that he had in Southern, California.

I was fortunate enough to Become a research scholar there working

with most of my

food.

I worked with Walter Martin.

My duties were largely and some

other

1989 and then

a year or so.

Answer man.

I was One of the people to do the program.

That's how I that's how I became introduced to you.

That's how I became aware of you and invited you out to Long Island to Participate in a

conference at the church where I was a member at the time.

That's exactly right after Martin's death.

My friend was largely

people like Rob

Bowman other

Individuals Ron Rhodes program so kind of a panel show.

I kind of liked it better that way because let me

get to Jenny's Question here.

Let me first of all say that Eastern Orthodoxy is its own distinct branch of Christendom.

Very easy.

I think for Protestants to think that Orthodoxy and Catholicism were kind of the same thing.

They're not.

There are times when Orthodoxy actually disagrees with the Roman Catholic position.

Sometimes they agree with product.

However, but they do have

Orthodox Judaism relating to

be a

challenge for

it.

Well because.

Secondly and the scriptures are in the scriptures are our soul.

Infallible and inerrant authority.

That's exactly right.

Yes, very good.

They.

And I've learned that value over the

years as a Christian Apologist, but

that is distinct from anything.

It's only the statement of faith

that I life

death and resurrection alone.

Not by works the Orthodox saved

by grace it is it is the sacramental grace that

kind of faith

aided by works of loving obedience and so like Roman Catholics

Orthodox tend to see justification as including both a declaration of

forgiveness and righteousness.

Well, I think the challenge

Jenny to your question and your handograph who I might say

suffering with this

I think the challenge is.

Is that odd.

That would be

my I mean even so teary logically.

I mean, that's the even on a neck -and -neck of importance with sola scriptura, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean absolutely these are these are awfully important issues and

You know Orthodoxy and Protestantism very significant

common ground.

I'll tell you this.

I Nature of God some of the some of the best defenses in church

history have come out of the Eastern Church their view

of the incarnation.

Has always been very strong the Orthodox of all with a lot of

mom and then later from communism there are good things in Eastern Orthodoxy,

but the challenge of scriptures authority and Salvation by grace alone through faith

alone in Christ alone.

CRI.

Yeah, and don't the Eastern Orthodox

have an unbalanced.

Focus on the incarnation Of Christ in

relation to our salvation as opposed to the Crucifixion and

The atonement provided by Christ the redemption provided on Calvary.

Aren't aren't isn't there some sort of imbalance there on in relationship to our salvation.

Yeah, these are also

regard to Eastern Orthodoxy and difference with historic Protestantism the idea of

theosis the idea of the incarnation of

Redemption and Orthodox.

They don't look at fetal substitutionary atonement.

They often talk about.

So there is a different orientation and there are times where Protestants are quite critical of

How the incarnation is seen as the model of salvation within

Eastern Orthodoxy.

On?

The other hand.

You know.

One of the individuals that Orthodox Catholics and Protestants all kind of celebrated one of the great

heroes of the faith is Athanasia.

Orthodox are very fond of citing Athanasius his book on the incarnation.

And so yeah, there are some secondary areas where Protestants and Orthodox would would

disagree.

Trinity and the incarnation in the historic Orthodox tradition.

And in fact.

Athanasius I believe is one of the Heroes of the

faith that prove That sola scriptura existed long prior

to the Reformation.

The Athanasius contramundum when he was Against the world obviously not every single

person in the world.

But the majority of the church in leadership anyway had become Aryan and he was one of the few

Voices crying out for the deity of Christ in opposition to the majority of those

allegedly over him with authority.

Yeah, what's interesting I think Chris is that when you look at Athanasius His book on the incarnation.

You have something similar in my view the medieval Catholic

Athanasius Augustine and Aquinas all have a very high view of scripture and There are

passages in their writings that lead some of us to think that they leaned at least leaned

in the direction that scripture was uniquely authoritative again,

our Catholic and Orthodox, but.

They're really

about authority and as you say

it's the great hero I think the most and

that is Aryanism which reflects the view

of Christ.

By Jehovah's Witnesses who knock a church Trinity is false and that Christ is only

a creek.

Yeah I mean I mean part of this dynamic between

Protestants is the unfolding of church history and the unfolding of these

kinds of issues.

So there's a lot of area of common ground.

Very important differences that have to be brought to the bear if we're going to have an

honest and.

Amen, and one thing that I forgot to say earlier, and I'm assuming you would agree with this

In regard to creeds and confessions and even now history as we

are talking about Athanasius one of the dangers of being non -confessional

And having a disorder distorted warped understanding of Sola Scriptura

is that it is perhaps unconsciously a Claim that you are

the smartest man alive And that you don't need the benefit of great minds

brilliant men of the past who have hammered through Much of the difficult

areas of the scripture knowing the many of them knowing the original languages of the scripture and

to To boldly claim.

I don't need any of that.

You're really saying in In a lot of ways.

I don't need a teacher.

I don't need teachers.

I could just handle this on my own now, obviously you would agree.

I'm sure that yeah, someone can be saved by Picking up a Bible

and Going out in the woods and reading it and reading the gospel and and get in there and the Lord uses that to

save them.

But.

The normative way that the men and women are brought to Christ and especially Discipled

is not just by living alone in the woods with your Bible.

That's exactly right and Chris I would tell you I mean Jenny asked another question speak ahead a

little bit by sit.

Tell Chris one of the

things that troubles me about evangelical

Protestantism is I think that

Evaluation of theology of doctrine and I've had friends

who have left evangelical Protestantism and joined the Catholic

and I think often they will note that

church fathers I Wasn't exposed to you know Some of the the best

Christian wasn't given

my faith as a Christian and distinctly my

faith I think it is very very important

Evangelical

product, but I would also say this I I think to be a Protestant you have

to come to grips with Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk

You know that he and spend hours

in the implication

confessed all of his sins if he'd ever You know truly repented of all of

his sins and therefore he had a deep Insecurity, and I think that

Luther's discovery Rediscovery of the great doctrine of the New Testament salvation by grace

alone through faith alone in Christ alone or justification by faith is so critical in

that context and I

incur it as I mentioned where

People agree and I'd like to talk with people in the other branches and the other denominations.

I mean, I haven't talked to a Baptist like you.

I mean I Like to I'd like to say look, I think if you

want to come to grips with Protestantism you have to look at the uniqueness of the authority of

Scripture and At the question of what

state of my salvation in fact, in fact.

We in fact if you could pick up right where you left off because we have to go to a break right now.

But we'll be right back after these messages with more of Ken sample.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours

with About an hour to go is my dear old friend Ken samples and

we are discussing his book.

Part two of his book without a doubt.

Answering the 20 toughest faith questions a discussion.

We began a number of weeks ago and just barely scratched the surface.

So we thought it'd be wise to continue on the same theme before I return to our discussion with

Ken.

I have some important announcements to make first of all.

Coming up in just a matter of about two weeks or so.

We have the foundations conference the conference being orchestrated by sermon audio

that's gonna be held in New York City in the Chelsea section of Manhattan on 350 West 26th

Street and.

The speakers at this wonderful conference include Dr. Stephen J

Lawson, dr Joel Beakey Phil Johnson the executive director of John MacArthur's ministry ministry

grace to you Todd Friel the host of wretched TV and wretched radio and a number of

other speakers.

If you would like to register this for this conference and join me there June 22nd through the

23rd.

The email I'm sorry, the website address is the foundations conference calm the

foundations conference calm and then following that conference.

The fellowship conference New England is being held August 3rd through the 5th at the Deering Center Community Church in

Portland, Maine and the speakers at that conference include Don Curran of Don

Curran ministries and heart cry Missionary Society, which is the ministry founded by Paul

Washer my dear friend pastor Mac Tomlinson Who's an author and a pastor

at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas?

Also on the roster is pastor Jesse Barrington pastor of Grace Life

Church in Dallas, Texas a sister church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida.

Whose radio?

Station airs this program pastor Nate Pickowitz, who's an

author and Pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New England.

In fact, we're going to be having Nate Pickowitz on Very shortly on iron sharpens iron

radio to discuss his book reviving New England if you'd like to Join me

at that conference.

You can register at fellowship conference New England calm fellowship conference New

England calm and then in the fall November to be exact from the

17th through the 18th of November in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania the Alliance of confessing

evangelicals is Having the Quaker Town conference on reform theology featuring Kent Hughes

Peter Jones Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and Scott Oliphant.

The theme is for still our ancient foe, which is Quite providential because we're going to be picking up the

discussion With Ken samples in a moment about Martin Luther.

For still our ancient foe is obviously a line from the hymn a mighty fortress penned by

the great reformer Martin Luther.

If you'd like to join me at that conference where I will have a An exhibitors booth God willing

go to Alliance net org Alliance net org click on events and then click on

the Quaker Town conference on reform theology For still our ancient foe last but not

least from January 18th through the 20th 2018 the g3

conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia and next year's theme will

be knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship and Speakers

include Paul Washer Steven Lawson Votie Balcom HB Charles jr Tim Challis Josh bias my dear friend.

Dr. James R white of Alpha Omega ministries Tom Askell of founders ministries Anthony Mathenia

Michael Kruger David Miller Paul trip Todd Friel Derek Thomas and

Martha peace and more.

If you would like to Join me at the g3 conference.

I'll have an exhibitors booth there.

God willing as well.

Already received the final word from Josh Bice that He is setting up

an exhibitors booth for me.

And I'm so grateful to him for that.

If you'd like to register go to g3 conference calm g3 conference calm and

please When you're registering for any of these events or even merely just contacting

these organizations to find out more about Those conferences, please.

Let them know that you heard about the events From Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio that will make

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Well now we are finally back involved in our discussion with Ken samples.

We have been and will continue discussing his book without a doubt answering the 20 toughest faith questions.

This is a continuation of of an interview.

We began several weeks ago, but this is quite a thorough book

on some deep issues that that require sometimes more thorough and lengthy

answers and If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at

gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Before we went to the break.

Can you were talking about Martin Luther?

Knowing of the real pivotal issue the primary issue of the

Reformation that separated the Reformers from the Church of Rome in regard to

justification by faith alone and You were talking about believe about assurance as

well when we went to the break.

Yes, I you know, I want to a bit on one

of the challenges in our evangelical world.

There are churches are not often enough schools.

I'm not saying that there aren't many things.

A place of worship a place of fellowship.

You know It also

needs to be a school and evangelical Protestants need to be taught about church history.

They need to be taught about the great truth.

I think that You know when we look at

The uniqueness of product and I talk with people I know who are

Catholic or Orthodox.

I I do bring up.

I bring up not having to

show not knowing whether Have I done enough have I done enough

works that will be acceptable to God.

I think that the doctrine of justice.

And again, I want to encourage our churches

you know to grow in their understanding of the development of Historic Christianity and

its awareness of.

I know those are issues that you care about and you talk about on your Very fine program and I

I want that to to continue.

I think the more you know about Christianity the more, you know about the history, you

know a

In that way a product.

Well, one of the other.

Questions.

Excellent questions that Jenny brings up actually I think has to do with

a Chapter in your book.

Is Jesus a man myth madman menace mystic Martian or the Messiah?

You really expanded on CS Lewis's Question.

I believe It's Jesus lunatic liar or Lord.

You added a lot more and those and they were necessary to be added in the 21st century because you do have

crazy people saying that Jesus may have been an alien but She actually poses the question.

How can an atheist continue to nigh that Jesus ever existed?

There were over 20 secular sources mostly Roman and Jewish sources in the Talmud that confirmed Jesus

lived.

How can you confront that willful blindness?

Interesting question because I Found out a number of years ago when I arranged

a debate with dr. James R white.

And David Silverman.

David Silverman is a notorious atheist.

Who is the current president of Madeline Murray O 'Hare's?

Organization.

American atheists they debated on the theme is the New Testament evil.

It was supposed to be the theme that Christopher Hitchens was going to

debate on with dr. White.

Christopher Hitchens Graciously agreed to participate in that debate

even at a much lower Rate or for a much lower honorarium that

he that he was used to but then as we all know now, he developed

esophageal cancer and He died before.

Well, actually he didn't die before the debate.

But he was too seriously ill to come to participate in it and subsequently died

but so David Silverman filled in and debated on that issue.

And of course, dr. White highlighted that an atheist really has no foundation to claim

anything good or evil.

If we're merely evolved bags of protoplasm, there's there's no way that we could dictate what

is good or evil for anyone else?

But.

After that debate was over David Silverman Said that he would like to debate

James White on The myth of Jesus that Jesus was really

just a product of pagan myths that had been Christianized and

When I when I reminded David Silverman months later about his

Challenge to debate that issue.

He was traveling and could not participate.

So I started calling Major atheists, I believe I contacted Most or

all of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Of course Christopher Hitchens was already passed away at that point.

But they all said no right -thinking Atheist worth his salt

Will defend that anymore.

We all pretty much know that Jesus Christ was a real historic figure.

We just don't believe That he was God because we don't believe there is a God but if you could comment on that.

Yeah, there is there is a movement within the skeptical community the

Individual named Robert developed or brought back

to the degree that he that he can the idea of a Christ myth and

I think what's interesting about that is that it it

is a combating these issues as Jenny has

set forth not only do we have A powerful manuscript

that these books were written early that they were written by

eyewitnesses or People who associated with eyewitnesses of Jesus's life death and resurrection.

But as Jenny mentioned there are references outside the New Testament some Jewish

some Roman some Greek that mentioned Jesus or mentioned and

There have been many people both believer and unbeliever who have you

know the idea I mean even Bart Ehrman who is a skeptic who is

he was once a theologian Bart Ehrman

says in fact, in fact the Jesus seminar would

They would be conservative because they would argue.

Well surely Jesus.

I think that the strategy here Chris is by arguing a

Christ myth.

The life of Jerry death is Rick in some

ways.

It's it's a willingness to adopt a radical skepticism In the hope that they

don't have to deal with some pop again.

The problem is If you say you can't know anything about Jesus or that he didn't exist.

Well, then you can't say anything

I think this Christ myth idea one that

is one that is in any way and

I'm many of

these people outside of the Bible.

But there's wonderful

I try to develop that I do expand

dilemma because as you know to

come

along and say all kinds of things but the best

explanation the powerful explanation as Lewis said in his book mere Christianity the

shocking alternative is that Jesus is God in human flesh and I think

that's a great way of approach and

our

account and

we'll take

one more question from Jenny.

How can we get through?

How can we get through to monolithic Christians?

That is Christians that have a one -track mind.

When it comes to various topics, but in this case Muslims, are we not to evangelize

Muslims in truth and love?

I'm not a hundred percent sure what she means by this question, obviously.

We are to evangelize anybody with in truth and love.

But if you could perhaps if you have a deeper insight into what she is asking perhaps you could just

respond.

Yeah.

Like you.

I'm not quite sure what angle Jenny's coming at it from.

I can say this.

You know, I think we have to be careful about thinking all Muslims believe alike.

I think we need to recognize that Islam.

I hope and I pray that the number of Muslims that would engage in violence Against

innocent people is a small one.

But yet I think we need to be careful in the way that we reflect

Islamic theology that is We want to communicate with them.

We want to dialogue with them and I think sometimes it is possible that in

the evangelical world We kind of oversimplify things.

We kind

of think we

want to practice which essentially means Treat people's

beliefs the way you want yours treated.

I'm not going to misrepresent Islam.

If I do I will apologize.

Not going to represent misrepresent the Mormons.

I'm not going to misrepresent the Buddhists.

I'm going to work my tail

order to

Muhammad.

Sometimes I get a little concerned, you know Christians don't

want to treat other people with with integrity meaning

that people are made in the image of God and they're worthy of Our respect.

They're made in the image of God.

They have let's be respectful.

Let's also be bold in our witness for Christ.

I mean look at what what the Apostle Paul did on Mars Hill.

I mean, he didn't just Start ranting and raving and you know cursing

all of those people.

All those pagans and so on but.

The.

This is an interesting issue because I Had brought up the fact that when I

was having an internet Dispute with somebody who was foaming at the mouth

about any kindness being extended towards Muslims he this person was

identifying himself as a Christian and when I when I mentioned that The command not to

bear false witness against thy neighbor includes Muslims this this person who called himself a

Christian actually said Muslims are not my neighbors.

Obviously, he was indicating that he believed it was okay to slander Someone and lie about them as

as long as they were Muslim or not his neighbor.

But that's a ridiculous response.

Obviously that that applies for anybody and as I've said before on this program

if you are Called upon as a witness in a courtroom

during a murder trial and You were an eyewitness to

two murders being committed by the person on trial and

You say that the person committed three murders That's still a wicked sin.

You're still bearing false witness if you're making up the third murder and you know if you

Tell people that the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan Eats

puppy dogs for breakfast every morning.

It's still a slander no matter how despicable and evil the man is.

You know, we're not given a license to lie about people and it's ironic that the the same Christians

Who decry the practice of taqiyya by Muslims, which is the Islamic?

Validation of Muslims lying for very various reasons It's like Christians are doing the same thing.

But they don't care if they're exaggerating or being sloppy with their apologetics when describing what Muslims

believe.

I.

Think it's

just so important

Chris that you're exactly

misrepresent.

You know, I I'll tell you when I listen to somebody talk.

I'm asking are they careful?

Are they fair?

Are they thoughtful?

You see those things and

that's the way we should engage in evangelism apologetics.

It'd be well known as people who care about true

in the image of God and that we are bold.

We won't back this Christ to

his life death and resurrection.

And when I see those things, you know with so

yeah.

We've we've got some growing to do as a broader.

It's important I think for courage

people to grow in the areas of.

Always be ready to give to every man

keeping a clear conscience a

winsome approach.

And of course.

I believe that Muslims are lost in their sins.

They will be damned without the blood of Christ covering them without faith in Christ.

They are eternally damned and if you want to see them rescued from that

condition Do you want to speak?

Believably to them.

I mean if you start exaggerating or distorting or

Sloppily handling.

Facts and.

You don't do your research and you you're presenting yourself as some kind of an expert if a Muslim hears

you.

Saying things that that they or nor no other Muslim ever believed.

They're not gonna listen to the rest of you.

I I what.

They're not gonna listen to the rest of what you have to say.

I have heard Roman Catholics and Armenian evangelicals

and even members of cults.

Totally distort what I believe as a Protestant as a Protestant and Calvinist Christian.

And.

My mind shut that my mind shuts down automatically and I turn a deaf ear to them.

I don't even want to have any Dialogue with them anymore if they persist and just misrepresenting me

and and that's obviously what's going to happen with The enemies of the gospel if

we are if we are misrepresenting them How are they going to take us seriously about what we are representing in

regard to Christianity?

Such an important Area, and I'm the same way.

I'm looking.

It's okay if they disagree with me.

But do they treat my points of view.

Have they done their homework?

Then I'm then I'm open and I'm willing to have some gift.

Yeah, the golden rule of apologetics.

Not only should we treat other people the way we want to be treated.

At least we strive to do that.

Sanctification is a long and challenging road but we should also try to be fair and careful

in the way we treat other people's beliefs and ideas because we certainly want other people to

to treat our.

By the way, can I just sent you an email.

I forwarded you an email from Joe in Slovenia Who has a very lengthy question, so I wanted

you to have it in front of you so you could more Adequately respond to it when we return from our

final break.

This is our last break and if anybody would like to join us on the air if we have time.

Send us an email address at Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Obviously if you intend to send in a question, I strongly urge you to do it now.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

God willing with Ken samples and more of our discussion.

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Because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnton.

I have to lower now my volumes because of the Friend of mine who just

screwed everything up in the studio and left it without returning

the volumes and all the other knobs back to where they are supposed to be but It's one of those lessons

and forgiveness that I have to learn forgiveness and patience, but anyway

We are back now with the last 25 minutes or so of our discussion with Kenneth

our samples.

This is part two of a discussion.

We began weeks ago on his book without a doubt answering the 20 toughest Faith questions

if you'd like to join us on the air before we run out of time.

Our email address is Chris Arnton at gmail .com.

Chris Arnton at gmail .com and by the way a Jenny and Ben Salem, Pennsylvania.

We don't have any books to give away today because we gave away all of the copies of

Without a doubt that we had during our last interview with Ken.

So my apologies that there are no free books today for our listeners, but

Having said that before the break Joe and Slovenia says I've been

hearing Christians claiming that prayer is a two -way conversation with God.

It seems that they are implying if not plainly affirming that we as believers are to expect

to hear back from God During prayer.

I'm familiar with passages in Hebrews like Hebrews 1 verses

1 and 2nd Peter chapter 1 17 through 19.

Teaching that scripture is our authoritative source of God's voice to us today.

I am I am a convinced cessationist, however exegetically,

I Don't see that these texts specifically rule out the claim that God speaks to believers during

prayer.

Do these or other texts actually rise to that application if so explain

how so.

Are there other more plainly Conclusive texts that teach us not to expect to be hearing a

voice from God in prayer.

Thank you so much for being willing and able to deal with the toughest faith questions.

Yes, I

say a couple things.

I think if we think theologically and doctrinally we

recognize that that.

You know, the Apostles were

Authoritative

but they have their witness to cry and scripture

is unique.

It's unique to church councils.

It's unique to The church fathers.

It is unique to Bishop these kinds of individuals.

Certainly when we pray we can have confidence that God hears

of the Lord Jesus

and does He may do it providentially.

It's possible for God to work a miracle.

I think however scripture clearly says you're not supposed to believe

things easily or simply.

When we read scripture, we do hear the voice.

The Holy Spirit is the one who is inspired scripture.

And it is unique.

I think of the Passion in Tennessee where

it speak to doctrinal a life so that

God can speak to our heart to us through How he works

things out Providentially but to go seeking of a voice or to go

looking for somebody who is going to Represent the Apostles or represent God.

I think all of that is deeply disconcerting.

It's what we find in cult.

Yeah, there are Christians who are

charismatic or today.

But there is something powerfully unique in in scripture.

Yeah, I think God can speak to our hearts.

But he can do it in many different ways.

He can do it by convicting us.

He can do it by blessing us.

He can do it other people but you know

the question of looking for a voice that voice is in scripture and

Pray with confidence

and

study and reflection Of

God's Word folks

where I talk about the authority of scripture that might be

might be helpful to you.

Well, thank you, Joe.

Of you always provide insightful questions for our interpreters on radio keep spreading the word about our program

in Slovenia and beyond and One of the things that I wanted

to ask you about from your book.

Is.

This is something that obviously We would be facing when we have

dialogue with our Muslim Friends

and neighbors and our Mormon and Jehovah's Witness friends and neighbors.

How can God be three in one?

Yeah.

The doctrine of the true doctrine it is.

Arguably along with the instinctive and

I think it it is something weak as

we dialogue with people.

I had I've had a couple discussions Islamic

apologists these were kind of on the internet informal dialogue

debate and You know,

I asked them all that Allah doesn't he's not

dependent.

It also says and one

of them is the loving but

you know, let me ask you this

ugly adopting.

There's one God one person.

He has one nature.

One person said who did Allah love in eternity before he created angels

and we went back and forth and up and down.

And all over the place they got mad at straighted, but I

just kept coming back at them.

You know, I kept saying look they said well, you know, he talked to the angels.

Well, no Angels are creatures.

So finally after a very long period of time both of these Islamic apologists on the

web said to me.

We don't know who Allah loved in eternity.

I said, you know what?

That's okay.

I said, why don't you go back and ask one of your imams?

And I said, let me now tell you about the Trinity the triune God the Father loves

the Son in the Holy Spirit from all eternity and I said that

You know, the scripture doesn't say that God is loving.

It says God is love.

So I said unlike Allah the triune God doesn't need to create to fulfill himself.

He doesn't need to create in order to find love rather.

The triune God is is sufficient in and of itself.

So God doesn't need us, but he wants us and you know, I said the same thing.

I had an opportunity to talk to two Jewish fellows.

One was a religious Jew one was a bit skeptical.

But they wanted to talk with me and I I asked him the same question.

I said, you know if I understand traditional Judaism who did Yahweh love in eternity and

They were stunned.

They said, you know, nobody ever asked me this question before.

The doctor of the Trinity is so important in our discussion with other

monotheistic Religions it is also relevant to dealing with

Eastern and then of course There are plenty of American

babies Mormons.

The Mormons are tritheist.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are Aryans.

I think the doctor of the Trinity is a remarkable truth not only Powerful

in a very compact, you know,

God is and can be a loving being.

Because God is analogous Son and spirit now, it's

not the same as a mom and a dad and a child.

But it is speaking analogously and I think that the doctrine of the

Trinity Tells us a lot about it.

You know the the way our Family should be run the way our churches should be run

and I find the doctrine of the tree powerful a

doctrine that You know uniquely

reason so I spend a good bit of time in my chapter

defending explaining the Trinity.

Defending the Trinity Contrasting it with other different points of view and I have

lots of scriptural passages that I also raise

say God is one and

three and I look at I

In fact, I'll tell you this Chris.

Every cult every non -christian sect they deny two things.

They deny the Trinity and they deny salvation.

Salvation comes from the

Father.

It's accomplished in the Son and it's applied by the Holy Spirit.

I love to talk about the Trinity I love to teach about the Trinity and I want to invite people to

investigate that chapter because

Our God even

though there are you

we understand now you referred

before to Mormons as being.

Tritheists or aren't they even even more amazingly

heretical in the regard to God because they're really he no theists.

They believe in an infinite number of gods.

They believe in so many gods that they make Hindus blush.

Don't say.

Well, this is the I think was a tritheist.

But you're right the one God

within the context of being having many gods and we see

this all the time in the context of You know talking with

monotheistic groups.

Talking with Polytheistic groups.

I mean what's what's interesting Chris is in Hinduism while they have pantheism.

They have 30 million gods.

You also have bhakti Hindus who believe in one God kind of well.

There are many gods, but we decide to worship one God.

So the Trinity is is Incredibly relevant.

If you begin a study and reflect about the doctrine of the Trinity I guarantee you go some

that are relevant to the truth that the one

God

very important that our churches teach and.

Speaking of Mormons.

I want everybody to mark their calendars for July 3rd Monday, July 3rd

4 to 6 p .m. Easter time.

I am going to have the entire Group the music ministry out of Adams

Road.

Actually physically in the studio here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Adams Road is a Christian music ministry made up entirely.

Well, at least three of the four I believe Members of Adams Road are former Mormons.

So this will be quite a fascinating interview.

These are wonderful young people committed to the true Christ and true gospel of Holy Scriptures.

And as I said three of the four of them former Mormon now, in fact, I've even had

The mother of two of them.

I think it's at least two of the members Lynn Wilder who is a

former Mormon now a Christian.

But I hope that you tune in to hear these very talented people will be playing excerpts of their Music

during the in the interview and also obviously getting to hear more about their conversion experiences

from darkness into light from Mormonism to Christianity.

The.

One of the things that is touches on the Trinity Obviously is the hypostatic Union.

And you have a chapter in your book How can Jesus Christ be both

God and man and obviously our Muslim and Jehovah's Witness friends and neighbors.

Believe he can't.

Right.

In fact, you would probably have this many mainstream

Mainline denominational liberals who would to say the same thing Jesus Christ.

It's just a wonderful teacher and so on.

Great man great humble Self -sacrificing

selfless man, but not God, but if you could.

Yes, very important notice that the

incarnation the divine and human nature

the hypostatic Union.

There is a union of those found in the person of Jesus Christ

and you're absolutely right.

I mean Jews and Muslims are troubled by the idea that Christians would worship

Jesus as the Son of God something they did from the very beginning and Obviously, there

are plenty of people today.

I think it's fascinating Chris that in the ancient world people have a hard time believing Jesus

was a man.

Today they have difficult in

the New Testament Lots of solid

evidence that Jesus saw himself that way Before Abraham

I'm using the most sacred name of God in the Old Testament Isaiah.

Even the book of MP Jesus is I.

Hi Chris.

In fact the

the Jews.

From an earthly standpoint If you remove the orchestration

and for ordaining of Christ's dead death by the father himself the Jews never

would have Called out for Christ's execution if it was he was not making it clear that he

believed to be himself to be the God man.

I Think that's right on the money.

I mean the high priest recognizes that Jesus is making

claims to divinity and You know think of how important the

incarnation is because Jesus is both God and man.

He can reconcile God and man together.

I think it's also important to be able to talk about.

In my latest book I use a

metaphor I say maybe we should think about Jesus's humanity and divinity.

The way we think of a person who has citizenship in two countries and who speaks two languages.

You know.

You look at somebody like a net Yahoo the leader of he can

speak Hebrew in peccation that

way that Jesus is both divine and human.

And again.

Essential elements of Christianity.

Jesus saw himself as

witness.

Talk with a Muslim a theological liberal and you'll get a lot of

pushback.

That's again why it's so important that Christians think about the doctrine of the earth

familiar with the Bible and are able to defend It from the

chalice.

I like it that you've picked up on the Trinity and the incarnation boy.

There's a so important.

I spent a lot of time in the

tool chest.

Way and of course, don't you think that some of it we have to just

We have to recognize that there are things in the realm of mystery

in the mind of God that we will never figure out because sometimes when We are trying to use

Pictures extra biblical pictures and analogies and allegories They've

they in some way they typically fall apart and sometimes they even either border on or

leap over the line into modalism where we're giving the picture that that.

That you know, sometimes Jesus is God.

Sometimes he's man or sometimes God is the father.

Sometimes he's Jesus.

Sometimes he's the Holy Spirit.

Which is not what we believe is Trinitarians.

It's true as much mystery about God.

God is an infinite tool.

Being We are finite creature about

God is for our

times.

Analogies can be helpful and meaningful and purposeful.

Sometimes they can crash and burn and become very

but we we do believe that we have been given revelation from God and

There are helpful ways of thinking about the incarnation and the Trinity and there are ways that are not.

I

wish more churches.

Chris I can't tell you how many Christians I've met and I asked him how many sermons have you ever heard on the Trinity?

And I can't believe how many tell me I've never heard a sermon on the Trinity.

I've never been introduced view on the

Trinity and so we need

to help our people.

I want to invite everybody who's in my book without a doubt

simply because it will it will introduce you To these doctrines

incredibly important.

Well, I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in about three minutes.

Well, let me tell you I

Not only to

listen being

generous enough about my books. I'm

grateful for that.

I also want to realize that we live in a global society.

50 years ago if you wanted to talk to a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Hindu you'd have to go

whether you live in

flux of their ideas and their beliefs and.

And even if there were no people in the world's religion of the American.

They lots of people who don't know got the Bible who don't

have a Christian.

You know, I want to I want to encourage people to to grow in their knowledge of Christ.

Oh in when

a Jehovah's Witness knocks on your door.

Do a little studying do a little Reflection reflective study of Scripture.

Get ahold and you know invite the people in

and say hey, let's let's talk about who Jesus is.

Let's let's talk about the Trinity.

You don't have to know everything about Jehovah's Witnesses to witness for Jesus.

You don't have to know everything about Mormonism to talk about the person of Christ.

And you don't have to know everything about Islam.

To be able to say is so distinct and unique.

He is the Son of God.

So thank you for having me on your wonderful show.

I hope people will give and give.

Jen has been really a such a pleasure to know you

should doctrine.

So I appreciate that and one.

Clarification, I'm sure you would agree that there are some Christians who are such novices so

new in the faith.

Still wet with baptismal water that they should not perhaps invite People in

cults and false religions into their home because they could just get their.

Mind in a knot.

If you follow me you need to do some

study.

You need the only way you can be rules in

developing.

And you know, you can get into discussions and if you don't know an answer you can say look Hey, you're gonna have to come back

because we got to deal with some issues, but you're right Colts can.

You know, I remember the first time I talked to with the Jehovah's Witness.

He tied me and he drove me back and that's when I

discovered Walter Martin began studying The Trinity the deity of Christ began studying

scripture.

So yeah scripture preparation going to a good church.

Can help you in all of these ways and we're out of time.

And if you'd like to get Ken's book without a doubt go to reasons org reasons

org or CV BBS comm CV BBS comm.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than you

are a sinner.