American Gospel Guy, Sean, Makes Some Good Points (Seriously He Does) - Part 5

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June 9, 2022

I May Have Overestimated Sean DeMars (From American Gospel) - Part 6

00:00: All right, well, let's jump right into it today. I went fishing this morning again. I found some,
00:05: I found a great spot. I went to my old spot and I got a couple bites, but really nothing doing. So I went downstream a little bit and I found a couple of pools.
00:15: And I did that thing where, you know, if you look on YouTube, how to find trout, you know, you got to stalk them so they don't get spooked.
00:21: I kind of stalked them this way and I found a big rainbow trout right here, got him.
00:26: And then I found another one right here where the water's kind of moving here, kind of floated my bait right down here.
00:32: It was awesome. It was awesome. I felt like a real fisherman, a real big boy. In any case,
00:39: I'm in a good mood. We're going to continue with this conversation. I can't call it a debate.
00:45: I just can't. It's not a debate, obviously. You know, I had really low expectations for this whole thing.
00:54: And somehow Gospel Coalition, despite how low my expectations were, somehow they've managed to surpass them.
01:01: It's like way worse than I thought it would be. I knew it would be bad. I'm not that naive.
01:07: At least I don't think so. But it was way worse than I thought it would be. I can't believe it.
01:13: It's just every time you think something Gospel Coalition does can't get dumber, it does. I can't believe this.
01:20: By the way, there's a lot of feminine energy in this whole thing. I posted a screenshot of this, and my goodness, it's just, oh man, even the lighting is like, it's like villain lighting, but it's also kind of like soft, like feminine lighting.
01:34: It's just hyper emotionalism. It's just, that's all
01:40: I'm going to say. You're going to be nice today. I'm in a good mood. I'm going to be nice. There's no question about it. Let's do this.
01:48: She brings up in broaching Black Lives Matter, I mean, in the past couple of years, that has been, the whole topic has been a polarizing issue in many local churches.
02:00: Those who embrace the term Black Lives Matter, that often had the term attached to them.
02:07: So I'm curious, in your local church, how does what she is saying land on you in terms of both what the term means.
02:19: Honestly, Rebecca really does need to smile more. There's a lot of feminine energy here. But also, the church should have been the first one to do that.
02:26: There's a scowling going on. So you kind of asked like three questions. Oh, before I let
02:31: Sean, I know I said it wouldn't stop, but I had to do this. Do you remember when Sean had said, you know, he got asked a question and he was like, let me just not answer your question.
02:41: He was like, Rebecca, I just want to say I'm so thankful for you. That was such a weird way to say it.
02:47: Like it should be, I'm so thankful for you. Right. That's how you would say it. Like if you weren't, quite frankly, when you go like this,
02:56: I'm so thankful for you. It's as if you're seeking approval. Right.
03:01: And it definitely seems forced. It's like, he had to say that at that moment.
03:07: And I know that he's a smart guy and maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but he's a smart guy.
03:12: So he knew her whole presentation was complete nonsense. Like he knew what she had done.
03:18: And so, but he has to be winsome. Right. That's why this is so creepy. It's like, you have to be winsome, even though you, she just said a bunch of nonsense.
03:25: And so that's why it came out that way. It's like, I'm so grateful for you. Like, right. Right. That's what
03:31: I'm supposed to do. Right. Like, again, it's a very seeking approval or like, as if you're asking a question, I'm so grateful for you.
03:37: Very weird. Very weird. Indeed. Let's continue. Let's let Sean finish. I'm not going to, all right. I'm not going to interrupt.
03:43: I'm not. I'm sorry. Sneaky moderator. Let me try my best to kind of pick them apart.
03:49: First, as far as Christians using the phrase Black Lives Matter and then being called woke,
03:55: I was actually living in DC when all of that kind of exploded and having conversations around dinner tables and small groups and after church.
04:04: And what I realized is that everyone was kind of trying to figure out what was happening in real time, which is really dangerous because everyone has social media.
04:12: So they're external processing on the internet and you external process one way and somebody throws this label on you and external process the other way.
04:20: And it's just all bad. Less Facebook, Twitter, Instagram conversations, more private conversations would probably go a hill with an
04:33: African American sister who said something like, yeah, Black Lives Matter. It's great. And I just, that day looked on their website and the destruction of the nuclear family and gay and lesbian.
04:42: I think it was right around the same time where they came out and said like, yeah, we're trained Marxists. And I told her this and she was like, what are you talking about?
04:49: No, this is just about black lives. And so she didn't know that. I just by God's providence happened to look at it.
04:55: And so we had a little back and forth there. And I'm just really glad that that happened in my living room and not on Twitter.
05:02: Cause in Twitter, she would have called me a white supremacist. I would have called her woke and we would have gotten nowhere. But by the end of the night,
05:07: I think we were actually a better informed. So, uh, now having said that I down the line of place, let me stop him.
05:15: I actually accidentally paused the recording instead of the video. All right. I have to stop in there.
05:21: So they, I really hate that. And Sean is, is buying right into this, this, this, this false story.
05:30: Uh, there's two parts to it. Number one, that, that the internet, the internet and real life are two different things.
05:35: Well, of course it is, but, but, but people that are quick to call you a white supremacist on the internet or to call you woke inappropriately on the internet, internet, uh, they'll do that in person too.
05:46: Like I, I just, I get this sense that like a lot of these guys haven't met these people in real life, like these kinds of folks in real life, but they're just as horrible in, in real life as they are on the internet.
05:57: The internet and real life are two different things. Um, so that's the one part of the false narrative.
06:04: Number two, um, it presents this idea that like so many of us just were like,
06:10: Oh, I guess we're just calling people woke now. If they care about race. Oh, wow. I guess I'm going to do that.
06:16: Like as if they put no thought into it, it's so disrespectful to common people in the pews.
06:21: And big Eva is known for this. They just have so much disdain. They think we're just a bunch of idiots.
06:27: It just didn't happen this way. It didn't happen this way. They want, they have a false narrative.
06:32: These woke folks. And Sean is buying into it too, that anyone who talks about race in the church is labeled woke instantly.
06:40: I've talked about race in the church many, many, many times, many times
06:46: I've talked about racism many times in the church. I've never once been accused of being a
06:52: Marxist. Never once been accused of being a critical race theorist. Never once been called woke.
06:58: It's not about talking about the issue. It's how you talk about it. And so many of us,
07:03: I've said this a few times in these responses, we were long suffering. We saw, we heard some things that didn't make sense.
07:10: We asked questions. We had back and forth. We, you know, we inquired, we wrote letters.
07:16: We did it in private. We did it in public. We did it in person. We did it in the internet. And the responses we got were so insane.
07:24: They were so socialist. They were so obviously emotion -driven Marxism that we came to the conclusion that some of these guys are woke.
07:34: We didn't just say, oh, you're talking about race. You think racism is bad? Well, you must be woke. See, that's the lie.
07:40: That's the, that's the fantasy narrative that unfortunately Sean is participating in here. That's not what happened.
07:46: If you could see my inbox, you would see so many situations. Man, my pastor said this, and I went to talk to him about it.
07:52: And he said that I just was blinded by privilege and this and that. Like, and all I did was ask a couple questions.
07:58: And I asked my pastor about this woke church book by Eric Mason. And, and he was like, he just raged at me.
08:05: It's like, people are having these conversations in real time. And they go just as poorly as they do on the internet sometimes.
08:11: So let's stop pretending like people are totally different on the internet than they are in real life. It's not the case.
08:17: It's not the case at all. Number one. Number two, stop pretending like we just have a hair trigger.
08:23: Everyone who talks about race is woke. That's not the case at all. So many of us have been long suffering. We've asked many questions.
08:29: I just hate when they put this false narrative forward and Sean, you know, better man, you know, better because you know, you get called a white supremacist all the time, no matter how thoughtful or winsome you think you're being.
08:40: It just doesn't happen the way you're saying. Now, where we should, we should be able to recognize what's happening.
08:48: And we should be able to say, I believe that black lives matter. And then in the very same breath say, but I do not in any way support this organization or what it stands for.
08:56: If you do that, you will always be a white supremacist in their eyes, because it's not about not being racist.
09:02: It's about their socialist policies. It's about their supporting everything that they say. It's about doing all this, uh,
09:08: Marxist stuff that they say, you know, that full well, Sean, and you could have said that because the reality is that's, what's dangerous in the woke church.
09:15: Doesn't matter how much I don't discriminate against black. It doesn't matter how much I give to blacks. Even all it, all that matters is that I support them getting that drip.
09:25: They gotta get them dripping there. If I don't support the drip, then I'm a white supremacist racist to them.
09:32: If I don't vote for someone, it's going to give them a bunch of stuff. Then I'm a racist. It's, it's, it doesn't matter.
09:37: None of that matters. And that's the dangerous part. And that's why they chose you, Sean, because you don't go for the jugular.
09:42: You're like, well, you know, yeah, black lives, of course, black lives matter. Well, obviously it's part of what it stands for.
09:49: I can support a sliver of what it stands for if you define it in a very particular way.
09:54: Um, and then what was the other part of the question? Um, should the church have been the white evangelical church have been at the forefront of the civil rights movement?
10:06: And then more recently? Yeah. Yes. Um, yes. So yes.
10:12: Comma. Uh, I think we were actually making a lot of progress. I know that's not a very cool thing to say.
10:19: Good for you. I'm going to stop him. Uh, I know I said I wouldn't stop him too much, but I do want to, I want, hopefully he doesn't take it all back in the next sentence.
10:27: Sean, come on, man, do me a solid. It's weird that I'm asking him that because this was recorded a long time ago.
10:34: In any case, good for you. Good for you because nobody, it's not cool to recognize any progress whatsoever.
10:43: If I, if I, if I even mentioned racial progress and I say, you know, really racism is not as much of a problem as it used to be.
10:50: You'll see in the comments, there's a few people. So when did racism end? Hmm. What do you say?
10:55: There's no race. How could you say that? It's like, are you, are you insane? Honestly, are you insane?
11:02: Others? One person in particular, I forget, forget her name. I think she actually is insane. And she's, she's in the comment section.
11:09: And just recently she said, what do you, how could you say there's no racism? Like you're insane.
11:18: That's what I, that's how I respond to that. You're insane. And, and metrics are hard to come by on this.
11:25: I wrote an article, which you should definitely not look up on the internet because it was probably really poorly written, but I tried to use some metrics and list out like 10 or 15, this was like 10 years ago, try to list out 10 or 10 or 15 different ways that white evangelicals were actually trying really hard to make progress from giving out, um, uh, scholarships to as many
11:46: African -American students who wanted them to like every church I know was like, yeah, we need more diversity on the leadership and we want to be in solidarity.
11:53: And I was seeing churches integrate across several different lines of diversity, not just, you know, black,
12:00: Asian, white. Why do we need more diversity in leadership? We just do. I mean, it's just otherwise, what are you racist? Quote a thing.
12:07: And I really believe that, uh, the backwaters, academia, critical theory, the way that it has trickled down has actually reversed that.
12:18: So in my, in my presentation, where I talked about kind of losing 50 grounds of progress, uh, along racial lines in, in the church,
12:26: I really do think that we were moving forward. Were we moving forward fast enough? That's a judgment call.
12:32: Was everyone repenting as much as they should have or lamenting as much as they could have? Probably not, but it felt...
12:38: Definitely not. If you're in Big Eva, you've definitely not lamented enough. I said this on Twitter the other day, or actually just today,
12:45: I think, that, uh, Big Eva does everything in their power to rob you of as much joy as possible.
12:52: They want you lamenting, they want you sad, they want you nervous and all that stuff. Don't take the bait, guys.
12:58: Don't take the bait. If there's anything that you learn from the 80 Robles YouTube channel is to have the time of your life, laugh as much as you can, fight and enjoy it.
13:09: And they're going to be like, the thing about you, uh, AD, this is someone who said this to me, he got his whole, he got his holy robes on him and he, he got them all, he got them all straightened out.
13:19: He said, the problem with you is not that you care about this issue.
13:25: It's just that you're having too much fun. And I just remember looking at that and he wrote it down.
13:31: It was an email and just laughing. I was like, that's the, that's why they hate me because I'm having a good time laughing at their nonsense.
13:41: I'm not, I don't apologize and I'm going to do it again. It's good. It's great. I love doing it. It's fun.
13:46: It's fun to fight in the Lord's side, man. We were going in a good direction. I have brothers who are sitting here in this room who would tell me that like in their church, they were like, man, we're like, man,
13:56: God is moving. I can feel reconciliation is happening. And then boom, this stuff kind of exploded on the scene and everything got way, way worse.
14:05: Good for you. So that's kind of my perspective on it. Good for you, Sean. I am, listen, I could quibble with almost any statement in a
14:14: Big Eva presentation. Of course I can. And I'm not saying that was a perfect, it wasn't a perfect phone call.
14:20: Like, like Donald Trump's phone call with Ukraine that one time it was a perfect phone call.
14:28: Oh man. But I have to give credit where credit is due. Sean is exactly right.
14:33: And I don't pretend that it doesn't take guts to say what he said. Progress was being made.
14:41: There's no question about it. Anyone who denies it is completely out to lunch, right? Progress was being made when
14:48: I was a kid, there was less racism than there is right now because this whole project of critical race theory and woke church is to increase the strife as much as possible.
15:03: Everything they say is to ramp up the strife, to ramp up the suspicion, the anger, the jealousy, the covetousness, all of it does that.
15:14: And so Sean, it takes guts to say this. Things were moving in the right direction and then people got woke and all that progress was thrown in the garbage can.
15:25: And here's what Sean won't say. And it's lots of people at this coalition who were involved in that.
15:31: It's Thabiti Anyabwili who undid so much progress. It's Eric Mason who undid so much progress.
15:38: It's Matt Chandler. It's Tim Keller. It's these guys that are participating in unraveling so much progress and they did it to serve their political aims.
15:49: They did it so that they could get pats on the back and look like cultural thought leaders. You see, that's the thing. They don't actually care about black lives.
15:57: They care about looking like they care about black lives. And in order to look like you care about black lives, you've got to vote
16:04: Democrat. You've got to at least support Democrats or you at least have to tolerate Democrats. That's how you look like you care about black lives.
16:11: You keep a bottle of hot sauce in your purse like Hillary Clinton. That's how you look like you're caring about black lives.
16:18: That's not how you care about black lives. It's just that simple. Black lives. It's just that simple. Good for you,
16:24: Sean. Pat on the back. I don't have, I'm not going to say anything else negative about that statement except for the fact that he should have taken it a step further.
16:33: That's the only thing I'll say. But all in all, very good. I know that takes guts. God bless you. Let me take it from maybe an older buzzword to a newer buzzword.
16:45: CRT, intersectionality, these are terms that you referenced in your argument. When you look at those, when you hear those terms used, is that something the church should throw out altogether or are there...
16:57: Throw out as in use or throw away? Throw away the whole, everything encompassed in CRT and intersectionality.
17:05: Chuck it in the garbage bin. I don't even talk about critical race theory on my channel. I just, I don't bring it up.
17:10: I don't mention it in my book. I don't care what you call it. I don't care the specifics or where it came from as much.
17:17: What I care about is what is being said that comports with the scripture versus what is being said that's against the scripture.
17:24: It's just that simple. And every person who's been influenced by critical race theory ends up saying a bunch of nonsense about the scripture that's just not true unless you're a
17:34: Marxist and you're twisting the scripture in a certain particular way. So chuck it in the garbage bin.
17:40: It's not helpful. It's not, you know, winsome. It's not biblical in any way.
17:46: Chuck it in the garbage bin and let's start from the scripture. Or do you find helpful things in CRT in the academic study and application of CRT or intersectionality?
18:01: Yeah. So first, let me just make a quick point of clarification. I find it very common that when we talk about wokeness or critical theory, which
18:09: I sort of use synonymously, that we always end up talking about CRT and intersectionality, but CRT is just one manifestation of wokeness.
18:19: Critical theory is a totalizing worldview and it's fundamentally cynical. It wants to look at all power structures and it can do that.
18:27: And anyway, so what it tries to do is it tries to do it through the lens of every point on the intersectional spectrum.
18:33: So you have various manifestations. You have critical race theory. You take out the race.
18:38: It's just critical theory. You have critical education theory. That's critical pedagogy. You have critical queer studies.
18:43: You can just kind of apply it to all various and sundry things. Okay. So the question is, do
18:49: I find any point of critical theory useful for the church? And I think the answer to that is kind of, don't all heresies and bad ideas have a germ of truth in them?
18:59: You know, Mein Kampf, which you can't read because it's banned. Hitler says one or two true things in there, you know.
19:08: He says more than one or two true things in there. And this is the thing. It's like, it's like you could have, what's her face?
19:14: Rebecca, Dr. McLaughlin said, you know, something about how, you know, yeah, you can't throw away, like something about Black Lives Matter and how it's not perfect and stuff like that.
19:25: They have a lot of good things that they're doing. You got to support the good stuff, whatever, whatever it was that she had said. Was it her?
19:31: A lot of people say that. I'm not going to attribute it to her because I don't know that she said it, but a lot of people say, you know, look, they're doing a lot of good things.
19:37: They can't be perfect, blah, blah, blah. And you could have said the same thing about the Nazi party. They had, they said a lot of things that, that people would really like and stuff like that.
19:44: And obviously you wouldn't want to support them because they're trying to undermine society, right? You wouldn't want to support that.
19:50: And it's the same thing with, with Black Lives Matter. You don't, you don't need it. You don't, everything that critical race theory accidentally gets correct, it's completely on accident.
19:58: And you could still have it. If you chucked critical race theory out the window, see, that's the thing. This is the scam.
20:04: It's like, if you don't need it, why have it? The scripture is sufficient.
20:10: The scripture is enough to deal with how do you, how do you forgive people? How do you deal with people that need to reconcile?
20:16: How do you reconcile? How do you deal with government? What's government for? What's government not for? The scripture is totally sufficient for all of these questions, right?
20:25: And so if critical race theory accidentally gets one or two things correct, you don't need it.
20:30: Chuck it out the window because there's so much poison there that it's not even worth it. It reminds me of that fish in the
20:38: Simpsons. Remember Homer was eating all the fish and there was this like specific fish. It was called like the Fugu fish that had like the most delicious meat of all time.
20:46: But it was just like this little piece and the entire fish, the rest of it was poison. It was, it was the episode where Homer, Homer was going to die or something.
20:52: And he ends up reading the Bible in that episode. That's a weird thing to remember. In any case, why even risk eating the fish if there's just a little bit of meat, but it's almost all poison?
21:04: Why do it? Why do it? It's totally worthless. We don't need it. Chuck it out the window.
21:11: I'm not going to drink a bucket of water just because it only has a few drops of bleach in it. My main thing that I say to people when they say, well, doesn't
21:19: CRT make sense? Stop. Don't make it seem better than it is. You don't drink a whole gallon of poison to get the two drops of water.
21:28: That's what it actually is. It's not a whole thing of water with a few drops of poison. Critical race theory is all poison, except maybe there's a little bit of water and people are trying to get that water.
21:38: Meanwhile, God has provided us an entire ocean of water. That's weird because it's salt.
21:44: Pretend it was fresh. And we're like, oh no, no, I'm going to get the poison cup with a little drop of water.
21:50: Meanwhile, there's gallons and gallons and gallons of water over here. We're over here focused on this. And it's like, again, are you insane?
21:58: You see the damage this is doing. Why even try? Why even try? You don't need to redeem this.
22:04: God's provided everything we need back here with this ocean of fresh water. Good points.
22:09: I would just say I can make those same points without all the destructive stuff that comes along with CRT or with this or that other aspect of critical theory.
22:18: I don't think I need intersectionality to be able to recognize that oppression can happen along identity lines.
22:26: Okay, that's well said. Yeah, that is well said. Of course, you don't need it.
22:32: It's nonsense. Why do it? It's developed by pagans for pagan reasons in service of paganism.
22:40: Don't worry about that stuff. Don't worry about that stuff except to refute it. This is garbage.
22:46: By the way, somebody in the comments yesterday said that Sean was out of his depth in this debate.
22:52: And it was because of some of the stuff that he had done previously. I don't think
22:57: Sean was out of his depth here. I don't. I really don't think that's what it is. I think that Sean was handicapped because for whatever reason, he got it into his mind that he needed to be so agreeable, right?
23:14: He needed to be agreeable. Unfortunately, that's a feminine trait. And I don't think that Sean imbibes that feminine trait in his normal life.
23:22: But he agreed to essentially be feminine in this debate by taking them up on their offer for a winsome good faith debate.
23:30: See, the thing is, a debate is not supposed to be agreeable. You're supposed to clarify your differences and poke holes in what the opponent says.
23:37: You're not supposed to be like, oh, I'm so grateful for everything you said, when clearly everything she said was nonsense.
23:45: Nonsense. So anyway, I don't think Sean was out of his depth here.
23:51: I think the last two answers Sean gave were pretty good, and they show that he's not out of his depth at all.
23:57: I think he was just trying too hard to be winsome. It doesn't come naturally in this kind of a context.
24:04: And so it ends up just, it ends up handicapping you. I mean, it ends up castrating you is really what it does.
24:10: And you say things like, I'm so grateful for you. I was already wanting to talk about this, but hearing you two argue, coming back to defining terms, because you both have flanks where people on your flanks aren't necessarily defining terms, they're weaponizing terms.
24:28: And you both define terms. Interestingly to me, it kind of highlights the challenge because you define the terms different.
24:36: You both did. I remember, I probably first became aware of the term woke maybe five or six years ago when it was...
24:43: Right. But you see this, and this is why debate needs to be non -agreeable, right? Because the way
24:49: Rebecca defined woke was so stupid, because I'm woke according to her definition, because I acknowledge the racism of the past, and I don't like it, and I lament it, and all of that.
25:02: And I am not woke. So in a debate, you have to say, Rebecca, you said that being woke is acknowledging the racism of the past, being aware of it, being alive to it, awake to it.
25:13: And it's like, how can you say that if there's tons of people that you would never call woke that fit your definition?
25:23: That's a nonsense definition. You're sidestepping this debate. And so in a real debate, you get to challenge that kind of stuff.
25:30: Maybe it'll happen. We'll see. Because it sounds like he's about to talk about defining terms. So I'm sure at some point,
25:37: Sean or the moderator is going to say, Rebecca, your definition of woke doesn't make any sense, because according to that, everybody's woke.
25:47: I would have defined it the way that you defined it. I was talking about becoming - Oh my goodness. I guess we're not getting any help from the moderator.
25:54: He likes her definition, which makes no sense, because it obviously doesn't define anything. If everybody's woke according to your definition, then it's nonsense.
26:02: There's nobody that denies slavery of the past. There's nobody that denies racial discrimination of the past.
26:08: Everyone acknowledges it. Maybe some people like it. I'm not saying there's not people out there that don't like racial discrimination of the past, but at least they acknowledge it.
26:17: At least they acknowledge it. And so that was what her definition was. How can that be the definition of woke?
26:23: It boggles my mind. So we're not going to get any help from this guy, whoever he is. Maybe Sean will help us out here, because that's the key issue.
26:32: I don't know if we're going to get help from Sean, because he's trying to be winsome. And he's so grateful for her definition. I'm so grateful for you.
26:39: Awake to social injustices. Sean's definition of the term, if I can find it, is a bunch of failed
26:55: Marxists trying to bring Hegelian dialect back to life by fusing it with Freudian psychology,
27:00: Gramscian philosophy, postmodern epistemology, black feminism, and intersectionality. Yeah, I think the opening statement was a big disaster for Sean, unfortunately, because that's not helpful.
27:13: Nobody really knows what it means, and it doesn't provide any additional clarity.
27:19: Just talk like a normal person. Do you interact with that definition, and how do we as a church move forward?
27:26: Again, credit to both of you. You're defining terms, which a lot of people aren't doing. How do we move forward from here, and what do you do with that definition?
27:33: Yeah, I think what I was trying to say was there are different definitions of this term, and in order to talk meaningfully, we need to know which one we're using in any given conversation.
27:44: And I gave as an example what I understand to be the sort of origin of that term, which seems to me to be, broadly speaking, an extremely valid lament and mark of awareness of what's been going on.
28:00: And likewise, and - Think about how awful this woman thinks the church is, because if she accepts that definition of woke that she gave as an alternative to what
28:13: Sean did, and then she's saying that there's a lot of people in the church that don't acknowledge the sins of the past or the racism of the past.
28:21: Think about how horrible she thinks the church is, honestly. That's just so...
28:27: Listen, this is what Big Eva thinks of you. They think that you're completely deplorable.
28:33: It's a shame. It's a shame that the shepherds, they look at the sheep with disgust so often.
28:40: It's gross. It's really gross. Not that she's a shepherd, at least I don't think so, but she acts like one.
28:49: There you go. I'm an expert on critical race theory, but likewise, I think if we're to look at what is the germ of truth from which a lot of this has grown, it's the realization that changing the laws doesn't necessarily change people's hearts and behavior.
29:09: We shouldn't be surprised by that as Christians. Actually, we should think, we expected that. When schools were desegregated, we saw a sudden upspringing of many
29:23: Christian schools. Schools with the name Christian or Church in their title, which were private schools where you could take your white children so that they didn't have to go to school with little black boys and girls.
29:39: This is recent. Folks who were looking at that observed that, oh gosh, we changed a law here, but actually we didn't suddenly magic away the horrific racial prejudice that people had been raised on over generations.
29:58: I mean, if your grandparents took your parents to watch lynchings as Sunday afternoon fun, you're not suddenly going to wake up one day and say, well, the laws changed, so now
30:10: I see black brothers and sisters just like me. I think we need to reckon with that history, and again, that history which is our history.
30:25: I'm going to let her finish. We need to reckon with the fact that, yes, there have been things that have been built on that, that have gone in very different directions than any of us who believe the
30:40: Scriptures would want to go. But actually, we need to be talking about those things. We need to be acknowledging those things.
30:46: If we're critiquing critical race theory as an academic discipline, we need to have some sort of understanding that we're actually using within our churches that isn't just pretending like it didn't happen.
30:58: And sadly, I think all too often, that's what we're doing. So where do you think...
31:04: So I'm just going to stop there for right now. For right now, I did that just like Sean. Anyway, you know,
31:14: I don't even have words for that, because there was some decent stuff in there,
31:21: I guess. And then she said that, you know, if your grandparents took their children to a lynching of black people, just as a bit of Sunday afternoon fun.
31:35: And I just have to question her truthfulness, really.
31:49: Because what she's making it seem is just like there's a bunch of Christians out there in the that when there was a lynching, that was fun to them.
32:01: That was like a sporting event. That was like going to the Mets game on Sunday, you know, just a bit of fun, just a bit of afternoon fun to watch a lynching.
32:11: Bring your children, you know, we can sell some popcorn and perhaps some cotton candy. That's the impression that she was giving you.
32:19: That's how evil they were. Yeah.
32:27: Anyway, I'm going to stop it right there, because not in a good mood anymore.
32:32: So I just don't think that... I think the war in her heart really has shown through there.
32:42: That's as evil as any lynching was. To pretend like the
32:48: Southern Presbyterians treated it like a baseball game or like, you know, a day of bowling or something like that, or a kid's party, you know, birthday party.
32:57: Oh, yeah. What kind of entertainment are you going to have at your birthday party? You know, you're going to have a pinata? You're going to go bowling?
33:04: No, no, no. We're just going to go lynch a few blacks and there'll be tea and cakes afterwards.
33:09: So, you know, it'll be great. You know, that's the impression that she gave there. And, you know, the actual history is bad enough.
33:17: You don't have to make stuff up, you know what I mean? And the fact that she's doing that and she's giving off these kinds of impressions is, again, at a time where tensions are high, she's decided to lie.
33:31: She's decided to shade things in the worst possible light. And the thing is, we know about what the
33:37: Southern Presbyterians were up to, and we get it. You know, we get it. We understand that many of them were doing wrong.
33:46: But to make them seem like this, like, oh, yes, a bit of fun, you know, like that's, yeah.