Cultish: Searching for Sasquatch: Unraveling the Mysteries of Bigfoot, Pt. 1

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Cultish: Searching for Sasquatch: Unraveling the Mysteries of Bigfoot, Pt. 2

00:00

Alright welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is

00:05

Jeremiah Roberts. I'm one of the co -hosts here I am NOT joined today by Super Sleuth Andrew He is a bit under the weather so he is taking a break today getting some much -needed rest so However, I am super excited because we are gonna be talking about a fun topic today

00:24

I am here in the studio with Sarah Aydin How are you Yes, and so We have kind of a story together.

00:34

I've known you and your husband for a while you are from Oregon and and yeah, and so you would

00:41

I met you right around the time when we started cultish and You brought up the topic of Bigfoot and the fact that this is the area that you just whenever I talk to you about it

00:52

You get excited about it, so I figured this is sort of a fun interim episode It's kind of towards the end of the year.

00:58

We'll be dropping this around 2022 so I thought this would be a good sort of introductory topic as you kind of going into the areas of the fringe the supernatural and all that but Yeah, so you

01:09

Had quite the interest in Bigfoot and so I said sometime we gotta get you on to kind of like talk about it

01:15

So here we are. It's finally happened. So are you excited? I definitely am. Yeah. Okay, so real quick We're gonna introduce our guests in a second

01:23

But you are from Oregon and that area is known for Bigfoot as a whole, correct?

01:32

Yeah, so really the Pacific Northwest, you know, Washington, Oregon, California That's kind of considered like the hot spot for Bigfoot sightings though.

01:41

They are seen throughout the US, but okay Yeah so how have you yourself personally like how did you kind of this is something that you just sort of Got into your friends were into it or like what got you into even though you're in that area

01:53

There's plenty of people who probably are into other things besides Bigfoot Yeah, I've been up up and I mean obviously port there's the whole statement of key

01:59

Portland weird and all that stuff So but anyways, like how did you get into that? Definitely? So Really what got me interested in it is my whole family kind of has had experiences with Bigfoot Namely my dad my grandma my uncle

02:15

My grandma lived in a cabin in the remote wilderness in the Portland metro area and she had experiences with it on her property and I remember as a kid going up to the cabin and staying there and You know going by the campfire and then sharing the stories and everything

02:33

So it really kind of has been something that my family has always talked about And I mean the idea of it is super fascinating.

02:42

Okay. Okay. Excellent I'm excited to unpack it and we're gonna go into the history because you would say that This is a story of you and your family.

02:49

This is indicative of a One of many sightings that people have seen all throughout the world

02:56

I mean it comes it seems to be in some specific geographical locations, but there are tons of people who had you would say

03:03

Similar experience do the typical sightings you see do they line up with what you and your family experienced?

03:09

Yeah, so when it comes to like Sasquatch sightings, there's remarkable consistency between reports and They're seen largely in like heavily wooded areas like obviously,

03:21

Oregon, Washington and stuff, but they're seen Throughout the u .s. Like in Florida the south, you know

03:28

Hmm. Okay, they have different names for it though. Like in the south. They'll call it the skunk ape

03:34

And again that kind of goes with the legend of Bigfoot all throughout the world. There's different names for something that Seems to be the same thing that people are seeing.

03:45

Okay. Okay, definitely I appreciate you kind of introducing that and so I want to go ahead and introduce our other guest

03:50

So if you have all listened into cultish Last couple of years you may be familiar with our guests.

03:57

He's made a couple of appearances. Dr. Ray Bosch Welcome back to cultures. It's good to talk to you again

04:04

Jeremiah good to be here and good to be here with Sarah as well. Yeah Yeah, so I'm really intrigued to kind of unravel this conversation as we kind of like look into the woods really a fascinating subject just tell them just a little bit about yourself and What interests you about the subject of Bigfoot?

04:24

I've been a paranormal researcher since 1965 Investigated my first local

04:31

Bigfoot sighting here in Nebraska in 1968 I've been a pastor for 30 -plus years

04:40

Theologian by training artist by profession And I've just been

04:47

I've been Investigated all aspects of the paranormal for decades now and find it very intriguing in the late 80s decided

04:57

What was sorely lacking in? In the world as a whole was a

05:04

Christian viewpoint The paranormal. Yeah all topics in the paranormal.

05:09

Oh, definitely. Definitely I could not agree with you more and I think that's some of that's part of the conversation that we Kind of really brought up when we did our episodes on the

05:19

UFO phenomena Which are gonna to we're gonna continue to explore that product that topic in 2022 And this episode should be released in 2022 as well

05:27

Is this that it seems that people tend when it comes to the supernatural in the fringe? People tend to you can tell me if you agree with me or not

05:34

It seems that people tend to put it in two different categories. They'll look at it strictly through the physical evidence or they'll take you know, they'll take the in the book they'll fill in the blanks and they'll try and Only view it through the lens of the supernatural or even sometimes even it from a

05:50

Christian perspective or Christian worldview I think there's a level in which especially in the Western world

05:56

We've only take what we can see with our physical eyes and we almost sort of get into this reverse

06:02

Gnosticism ignoring or just sort of discounting any sort of supernatural or spiritual explanation to some of this phenomena

06:10

So I think it's good to like have a view of both as we look into it this guy

06:16

I think there are some similarities to with the conversation surrounding Sasquatch and Bigfoot and all that Yeah, I think post enlightenment

06:25

Western society Western culture as a whole has become increasingly materialistic and Physicalistic.

06:34

Yeah Science has become a cultic religion all its own and materialism is its is its main

06:46

Tenet I Prefer when

06:52

I'm speaking to a group of people to refer to these things as the paranormal which

06:58

If you as a pastor and have studied Greek, you know that what paranormal means alongside the normal And so these things happen and they happen consistently they happen on a very regular basis and We are existing in a physical

07:18

Dimension if you want to put it that way and Alongside us is a spiritual dimension, which is exactly the

07:27

Christian worldview and these things For whatever wherever they come from however, they do it tend to cross over from their

07:39

Normal into our normal, yeah, and so we have this interchange between the two between the the

07:45

Paranormal or supernatural if you prefer that and the physical world. Mm -hmm

07:51

Okay. Yeah, and you and I have a question too and maybe you can pack this necessary anytime you have any questions to you can definitely jump in as we go into the conversation, but You know,

08:01

I'm curious about to in our episode Ray With When we're talking about the now the initial one

08:07

We're talking about making the connections between the world of the UFOs in the world of the occult

08:12

You know there seemed to be from that conversation there there was a connection in regards to UFO sightings with a lot of what happened with the different research that different government organizations were doing including people like Jack Parsons and Others who are kind of trying to use look at the occult saying how can we actually use this and how can we potentially?

08:35

Weaponize this and just that sort of involvement to all of a sudden this site these sightings started happening specifically from the 1950s so I think some were a little bit pre 1950s, but that has seemed to be the later part of the 20th century when

08:50

These sightings started become really normalized and you can you even look at now where something like?

08:57

Just the whole UFO discussion seemed to be such a fringe topic for the longest time and here now you have it being

09:05

Normalized it was you know we were talking there was a pulse of the conversation where all the news media outlets were talking about These major you know

09:13

UFO disclosures, which is kind of anti -climatic But the point being that it's now what was the fringe is now part of our cultural conversation

09:22

So in regards to Bigfoot Ray Share this from your perspective.

09:27

When did this start to kind of really take root like especially in American culture because for me just so you know to My first exposure to Bigfoot was a kid when

09:38

I watched the movie and the show Harry and the Hendersons, so That was my point of reference so You know it's everyone kind of has some sort of introduction to these topics sometimes typically through film or sometimes just through something a friend shares with them, but When did you start taking interest in this and like what's your knowledge of when this started really become a cultural phenomenon some sense?

10:02

You know I I became interested even even in grade school With the idea of first the abominable snowman the

10:11

Yeti Yeah, one of the first books. I read was by Ivan Sanderson a British zoologist called on the trail of the abominable snowman and Is sort of the standard reference work on the

10:26

Yeti I Became interested with that and then as Bigfoot sightings began to crop up they became relatively

10:35

Newsworthy, I guess you could call it in the late 50s in Northern, California And that began to get a little bit of public notice.

10:45

I think it it Really caught the public's attention in 1968 -69 when

10:54

The Patterson Gimlin film Was released that's the

11:02

Sort of iconic footage of Bigfoot walking across a creek bed in,

11:08

California Oh, yeah, well most everyone has seen that and if you Someone has actually gone to the the trouble of Rendering the film into 4k and Stabilizing the image so that the image of the of the creature

11:27

Stays and so it's a it's a remarkable piece of film, and if you look for the stabilized

11:34

Patterson Gimlin film yes Do a search for that and you'll find it The presence of these things though it goes back

11:43

I Would have to say really into the mists of time because you can find early early

11:53

American newspaper accounts of people encountering a wild man in the woods

12:00

You go back even further into native Native American lore and you have

12:07

Virtually every tribe no matter where they are has a

12:13

Bigfoot like character in The Nebraska region which was

12:20

Eventually populated mainly by the Sioux, but the Arapaho and Cheyenne were all in here at one time or another but the

12:28

Sioux have a creature they refer to as the hairy man and They will even now

12:36

On the reservations they will parents will tell their kids that you better get to bed or the hairy man will get you.

12:42

Mm -hmm So he's becoming you kind of like the boogeyman figure, but it's very much a part of Native American culture

12:51

Same thing in Europe you can you can go back into the oldest written

12:57

Accounts and you'll find you'll find these stories of people encountering wild men in the woods hairy

13:05

Big people. Mm -hmm and It's it's just it's ubiquitous around the world different names different situations, but I think they have

13:20

They've always been with us Mm -hmm. No, that's good. What are your do you have any questions? What are your thoughts so far with what he's saying you mentioned as soon as he mentioned that footage?

13:29

Yeah confirmed it there like you're nodding and so I know you didn't your research. What are your thoughts so far? Yeah, so in regards to the

13:35

Patterson Gimlin Video, you know that video Has been scrutinized for years and it hasn't actually been able to be

13:44

Disproved because when you look at the way that whatever is in that film is walking the physical gate and how it's lifting its foot and the posture of its leg is

13:57

Something that goes beyond what a human would be capable of doing. Mm -hmm. Okay It's fascinating.

14:03

They've actually done some studies with athletes With body motion sensors on them.

14:09

The human body cannot move the way that creature does It's it's anatomically impossible

14:16

So, you know, it's it really puts the lie to the idea that this is a guy in a gorilla suit, right?

14:23

Yeah, in fact that was I remember watching some footage some sort of Bigfoot documentary we had

14:29

It was in my when I was going to high school and we had like we was just kind of close towards the finals around This time of year and so we just had a time to kill

14:37

So our teacher I can't remember which class I was in put in some sort of footage and we had that It was a tape

14:45

Yeah back to me a video cassettes sold back in the late 90s So I put in a video cassette of some

14:51

Bigfoot documentary and they had that footage of that tape I remember as soon as we saw that we were all laughing, you know, just we're like that's the biggest thing

14:58

I've ever seen, you know, it kind of has that same sort of camera shutter speed almost that you think about like the

15:04

JFK assassination There's almost sort of that point of reference But you know, it's interesting you can give me your thoughts on this too

15:10

Is that well, I think sometimes the initial gut instinct is to kind of maybe say oh, that's fake

15:15

Well, how many points of reference do you what's your ultimate point of reference? You kind of and you're only interpreting for what you view like your ultimately other points of reality

15:26

And so we're associating that with some sort of gorilla or some sort of human But if it's moving in a way, that's a little bit different a little bit off Doesn't just because moving in a way that we don't fully understand doesn't necessarily mean mean that it's fake, right?

15:39

Okay, you know definitely and so I definitely another question I have too because there are some examples too and maybe we can

15:48

Go back turn back the clock for others. We'll get into some ideas of American sightings too. Is that When regards to just the story of Bigfoot you mentioned is sort of being told in folklore even in earlier times and especially in early in the early

16:04

Americas You know there if you think about just everything in regards to just a especially in the

16:09

Eastern cultures is very word -of -mouth And so when you look at a lot of the other sort of mythical creatures you think about you know

16:18

The ideas of dragons unicorns mermaids werewolves fairies, you know even like the

16:23

Loch Ness monster, which kind of has a similar component to Bigfoot and You look at like the centaurs and even like vampires and werewolves.

16:32

I think I mentioned that there there's Seems to be a commonality to where like that's that mythology is coming from somewhere and usually back then

16:42

That back in ancient times you would have it wasn't word -of -mouth We didn't go around with camera for you know cameras

16:47

And we didn't have this independent line of witness and testimony a lot of it would just be what did our patriarchs experience and it just be tells of what they experienced because you do you do see kind of a

16:57

Phenomenon or retelling of stories through time Do you kind of see like a similarity to that ray in regards to kind of like the mythical?

17:05

Stories that are just are just kind of there that we all kind of collectively know I mean It's just part as part of who we are

17:11

But do you see a connection to that in regards to kind of the story of Sasquatch and Bigfoot is there a similarity there?

17:18

Well, I think it's it goes without saying if you look at If you mentioned to most people the idea of The biblical flood right you know oh, that's just it's a myth.

17:32

It's a story. It's a localized tradition Until you start to look historically and Anthropologically around the world and virtually every culture has a flood story

17:46

Yeah, including the including Native Americans So it's these these events that we

17:56

Because of our materialistic bent want to to just toss off and ignore

18:02

When we start to look at it there becomes evident a deep rich vein of historical

18:10

Instances that bolster those ideas, and I think it's the same thing with Bigfoot and Sasquatch It's I Was I was privileged to?

18:21

to design a book for the Confederated Salish tribes in Montana about their encounter with the

18:30

Lewis and Clark Expedition Uh -huh and as I got to sit down with some of the tribal elders and ask them about their version of Sasquatch and kind of got literally from one of the one of the tribal elders the sort of inside story on their idea of the

18:52

Sasquatch and it was fascinating, but They're being tricking credible thing about that one of the anthropologists who was working with the tribe

19:07

Has noticed their oral history hmm? And how they can their oral history literally goes back

19:17

Hundreds and As far as we can determine thousands of years accurately describing

19:24

Changes that happened in the Bitterroot Valley in Montana And so you know people tend to say well, you know oral traditions are just stories

19:34

No oral traditions are the truths of a people the truth of their experiences that's been handed down orally and because This predates their ability to write this is their way of maintaining their culture and their history and so the accuracy of oral history is is impeccable in In many many cases and So I don't think we can we can discount it.

20:08

We have to we have to give it an adequate hearing and Examine it against the evidence that we have physically to prove or disprove these things, okay?

20:21

No, definitely in fact It's interesting to the connection that Ray just mentioned to just about in regards to oral tradition and regards to folklore and then it is

20:28

With your family telling these stories about about these encounters. So it's definitely interesting

20:33

I'm just curious too because you mentioned that as far as your lineas, don't you have some like aren't you like part

20:40

Native American? Yeah, so I'm part Native American Lakota Sioux tribe

20:45

My great -grandmother is full Native American. So my grandma's half so I think that's really that definitely plays a part in I guess belief in Sasquatch and having those

20:58

Stories passed down. Okay, do you I mean, I'm curious as well too because in regards just to Native American spirituality there always is the aspect of you know, there is the occult is the occult when it comes to doing certain practices to try and attain secret esoteric hidden knowledge from from from the beyond or to into another dimension that God forbids and condemns in Deuteronomy 18

21:23

But it's always Different depending on the cultures. So India has the occult that's unique to them.

21:30

You have it, you know in New Orleans It's got the very, you know that Louisiana folklore. That's very unique to that culture and even when we did the episode with our with from with a pastor from West Virginia who who

21:44

Unexpectedly did a deliverance there's a unique folklore is there from there too, but in regards to Native American spirituality think of like the dreamcatcher and What that's for to alter the spirit realm

21:57

I mean for many of your research do you see any sort of connections in regards to the Indian burial grounds or anything that happens in connection to These Sasquatch quite sightings because again what we're approaching those from I think there's a realm that's physical

22:12

But if we're going to make the case what some people say is interdimensional Then there is some level in which it's inherently spiritual.

22:20

Maybe those things go together. I mean, do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean in regards to like Native Americanism, that's a culture that is steeped in you know

22:30

Mysticism and things that obviously as Christians we would condemn right and say that that is not the truth

22:40

But when it comes to Sasquatch I Think that there is a supernatural component to this.

22:47

Okay Well, just just off the get -go like what would be what would be your instinct of Just to make to make that case because if you think about it if you want to You know our lines of testimony and witness has to be two to three independent lines of testimony

23:02

I think the challenge is to Ray and you've dealt with this with the research that you do is The reality that you know, we see the world our naked eye does not as a whole see the unseen realm

23:12

We have things sometimes, you know as Christians say you're in a situation where you're ministering or you know

23:18

Evangelism and that you kind of have the gut instinct It's hard to describe that there's something deeper going on and ultimately evangelism what you do in ministry always is inherently both physical and spiritual

23:28

But there's always you can always sense when there's something going on Like how would you how would you make that determination just from your research at Bigfoot?

23:37

Like what makes you instinctively come to that conclusion? I think that a

23:42

Lot of people that see this creature You know, like we were mentioning earlier report things that are unexplainable like disappearing or Them having a really bad feeling when

23:54

I do see it Yeah, that's how you so that's how you just so that would be just the instinctive things that come to mind

24:02

I Suppose maybe Ray might be able to speak better on this Yeah, Ray could you could you elaborate on that because I think what's interesting to me?

24:11

I think and again, I'm not the most knowledgeable person person on the subject But when you look for example the people who get into UFOs UFOs typically lead to further research and typically lead to attempted alien contact and Which ends up leading you to certain occultic practices.

24:30

So you look at the ce5 disclosures with dr. Steven Greer Just recently

24:35

I posted Demi Lovato has been making the headlines I just saw something posted over the weekend where she was trying to now go ghost hunting and she is trying to now sing songs to these paranormal beings to help them because they

24:48

They read they had some sort of a put there somehow they were oppressed and had trauma and she's being genuine being sincere

24:55

But a lot of her her initial spirituality what she believes now is that she was working directly with stock.

25:01

Dr Steven Greer doing specifically Ce5 disclosures for anyone who doesn't know those are called close encounters of the fifth kind and Steve and we even mentioned

25:10

Steven Greer has an app where you can do this and Ray we Appreciate the fact that our initial episode you mentioned don't download the app.

25:17

Don't use it, but there's an inherent Well path to spirituality that seems to always be the case many a times with UFOs when it comes to Bigfoot What similarities do you see in regards of making a case that isn't just a physical creature there might be something more to this

25:34

What are your thoughts on that ray? Surprisingly enough you I mean you mentioned

25:40

Greer's Very ill conceived idea of essentially

25:48

Essentially having a media mystic seance in which you call down extraterrestrials.

25:55

Mm -hmm Once you start to delve into these things

26:00

In virtually given virtually any topic you will find people and this is the this is true in Bigfoot and Sasquatch research

26:09

You will find people and with the Internet and self -publishing picking up speed

26:16

You will find dozens if not hundreds of books of people who claim to psychically communicate with Bigfoot hmm and follow spiritual advice given by Bigfoot because obviously

26:34

They're natural creatures. And so they're much closer to the spirits of nature that we are right

26:41

And I mean so you you find people who? will do anything to Speaking from a

26:52

Christian perspective Avoid dealing with the truth of Jesus Christ and Scripture and Substitute their own

27:03

God That's good. No, that's a great point ray Sarah. I saw the wheels in your head turning

27:09

Yeah, what questions you have or what? What do you think in regards to that? well along with what Ray said I was gonna say that People a lot of people that have an encounter with Sasquatch.

27:19

Mm -hmm It's extremely impactful on their life and it almost leads them to an obsession with it to Trying to uncover and discover the truth.

27:29

You know, I'm thinking of Tom DeLonge and his obsession with aliens and Proving that you know

27:35

Dedicating his life to it and proving that to be true. It's almost the same with people that see this thing

27:41

They are so profoundly impacted that they go on this quest for truth

27:47

And I definitely think that that could be a tactic that Satan is using to distract people from the truth of the gospel to make them obsessed with something and Discovering that rather than pointing them to Christ.

28:01

Okay. Yeah, and so It was something like that. You could that's definitely the case because it's not you're not just making

28:09

This is not just some discovery. Oh, I just saw some creature I saw something I haven't seen before like, you know, you go out if you've never been

28:16

In some particular area and I've never seen a moose in real life and let's just say I think

28:22

I have a friend up in Idaho who has seen moose. So you see up there like oh, that's cool The first time I've seen one of those and that's kind of interesting.

28:28

That's cool But you know you go and move on. So this is the case where you'd say it's not just I saw this thing

28:37

Right so even with those case like this knowledge and this obsession it almost becomes a your identity a part of your identity and Makes it who you and and really it defines it begins to define who you are as a person

28:49

Like this search and this unraveling for truth If only I have a special knowledge of what I saw and I'm gonna go and unravel that because I do have seen

28:56

The view will get into it I mean some of the people who go obsessively search for that stuff. That's em, that team seems to be the case with them

29:02

Okay. Well, let me ask you this Ray because in regards to this being an interdimensional being people coming to those conclusions

29:10

That you know, I think many a times when you're kind of looking at the world the occult it's so easy to Look for the evil out there

29:19

You know, whether it's some sort of interdimensional being whether it's you know people who are secretly conspiring

29:26

You know to do their evil or whatnot and doing and whether the different secret societies and so many a times

29:32

I think we always think about the evil out there But I think sometimes we don't take into account the evil that is within us which we have basis for as Christians so in regards to like Isaiah chapter 44 verse

29:50

Isaiah 44 verse 14 This is talking about the Sun and some level the nature of idolatry where it misses says behold.

29:58

He cuts down cedars He selects the cypress in the oak he plants the pine in the forest to be nourished by the rain and It is you'll it is used as fuel for burning some and some of it

30:10

He takes and warms himself and he kindles a fire and bakes bread But then he fashions a god and worships it and makes an idol and bow and bows down to it so this is a situation where this is talking about a cedar a tree and there's nothing inherently evil

30:25

God created this for good and He's utilizing it for good. He's chopping it down He's using it to make food, but then he takes another portion of it and he makes a night a lot of it.

30:35

So How could we can I argue the case then and maybe I can play devil's advocate here. I mean

30:41

Could we just say that this is just a creature? We don't fully understand that it's just primarily physical that this is the people coming to it

30:49

And I can ask like play devil's a guy with you to Sarah Are they just is this what's happening when it comes to Bigfoot sightings?

30:56

They're just happening and that's there. This is not this is talking about the evil and the idolatry. That's that is in one's heart and making an idol out of this but just because someone's

31:06

Coming to these conclusions or has these sort of believes they're in tap with something Is that just what's going on within their heart or what are your guys's thoughts in that?

31:14

You kind of feel where I'm going with us Yeah, I you know, I would I would say this and this is

31:23

This is a cautionary tale for believers. Yeah It's not actually a cautionary tale.

31:28

It's a truth we sometimes want to Place the blame for Evil outside of ourselves.

31:39

And so sometimes it becomes easier to Blame for example a demon, you know, there are people who will

31:55

Deliver you from a spirit of tobacco right and So they take the addiction to nicotine and they demonize it and so suddenly it's not

32:09

I Have I have put myself in a position where my body is dependent on a drug that I get from smoking tobacco

32:19

Right, too. I've been infected by a demon of tobacco and I need to be delivered from this the the thing we miss

32:30

Where we miss the mark most widely sometimes is the fact that we

32:35

Satan is a real entity demonic entities are real entities but the nature of man is

32:47

To Going all the way back to the Garden of Eden When we were given the promise

32:55

That if Eve would eat the fruit She would know the the difference between good and evil and she would be like God We all

33:07

Have that nature of wanting to be like God wanting to be our own gods wanting to say

33:15

This is right for me. I don't care what you think. This is right for me. I'm determining what's right and what's wrong

33:21

So that that inclination away from God that's in our hearts as humans is

33:30

Always there and we don't really need Satan doesn't need to intervene a lot in or in order to get us to do bad things

33:40

Because it's in our nature to turn away from God and go in exactly the opposite direction Are these entities out there?

33:47

Yes Are they willing to? counterfeit Experiences and Give the appearance of being beneficial spirits or helpful spirits or nature spirits

34:04

Absolutely. Mm -hmm, but our inclination is to search for those things So out of out of as Paul says in Romans, you know, we we chose to worship the creation rather than the

34:17

Creator Hmm and so anytime we look at the natural world and we get obsessed with that that that's all there is

34:26

We've left the path of wisdom and we're following our own hearts that want to lead us away from God, right?

34:34

Yeah and I think that's I think that's good to have a holistic view when we're dealing with The supernatural because so many like I said so many times you're thinking out there

34:43

But we have to think holistically The evil is when is is within us to except for the grace of God as a whole

34:50

In fact, you know at first I was talking about just the other day was James chapter 3 verse 14

34:56

Which says if you have bitter jealousy and selfless ambition in your hearts do not boast and be false to the truth

35:02

This is not wisdom which comes from above but that but is earthly unspiritual and demonic

35:08

So this is talking not about you know Something about some inner potential interdimensional being this is talking about something that all of us deal with a regular basis

35:18

So, you know, how many times have I been bitter jealous and I've had self -ambition at my in my heart

35:23

I know I have I'm assuming you have just a little bit just a little bit but so that that's a situation to where while and this is just maybe something to take into practicality as we

35:35

Continue to unravel this is that This is something we're a lot more likely to deal with on a regular basis

35:42

Then Sasquatch at the end of the day and obviously, you know We'll unpack to like what what people actually do with that But I think that's that's a great point too

35:51

And I think that's something we should always take into account whenever we look at any of this stuff, too whether we're dealing with the aspects of you know, the complexities of the

35:59

Nephilim the relationship how some people are believe that this is Descendants of these are just potentially descendants of the

36:06

Nephilim and There's connections to Christ coming and there is there is a true spiritual war, but when that's the big picture but we do also have to make sure we don't lose track of our

36:19

Of the of ourselves to begin with as well, too. So did you have a thought on that? Yeah, I was just gonna say that you know when it comes to things like the paranormal

36:29

Sasquatch aliens all of that I mean it's fascinating to think about but at the end of the day the gospel is the main most important thing and People coming to know

36:38

Christ and all of these things can end up being distractions if left unchecked.

36:44

Yeah, definitely Yeah, so Ray just real quickly and I know I appreciate being on here and we're just to do word

36:50

This is just a general general overview And maybe we're gonna pack this too as we kind of go into the next episode

36:56

So kind of jumping forward you mentioned that you got into it through some sightings in Nebraska But you mentioned there's some ones there.

37:04

They're pretty famous that kind of really kind of got the cultural conversation going like what what like what were some examples of that because you mentioned it took place in the 1970s and it was an it was in Pennsylvania.

37:16

You said you mentioned that before the episode. Oh, there. Yeah There's a sort of a classic case that happened in Uniontown, Pennsylvania in October of 1973

37:28

This was Investigated by a man that I had the privilege of calling a friend

37:35

Dr. Berthold Schwartz, who was a very well -known psychiatrist and interested in in the power of the mind

37:44

And so he investigated a lot of psychic phenomena Many things but just a fascinating man and a and a great scientist

37:54

But he investigated this incident that began with a UFO sighting

38:01

Continued into a UFO landing and the the UFO sighting was by about 15 people

38:08

They Saw the thing land they contacted the state patrol and the state police

38:17

Came to this farm is on a rural farm This object was about a hundred feet in diameter

38:24

Sitting in a pasture as They were watching this they saw two

38:33

Creatures walking along a fence line This thing was very bright and illuminated the area.

38:39

This was about nine o 'clock at night and One of these figures was about seven feet tall

38:45

The other was a little over eight feet tall and they were sort of a typical Bigfoot Sasquatch like creature

38:52

They walked along they started coming toward a man and Two twin boys who were watching them the guy had brought a 30 -06 rifle along with him and He knew that the first round he had in the chamber was a tracer.

39:11

And so he fired it over the heads of these two creatures they were sort of Making sounds back and forth to one another almost like a baby crying and When they started continuing to come toward them he fired several shots into the larger one

39:31

Which then raised an arm let out a wail and the two creatures turned around with no apparent effect from the 30 -06 slugs and Walked back into the woods the state patrolman arrives

39:46

Mm -hmm The object meanwhile, well as soon as he hit one of the creatures

39:53

Excuse me. The object that had been landed had landed in the field disappeared leaving a 100 foot diameter circle that glowed in the pasture

40:08

The state worker said he believed it was he he could read a newspaper by the glow of this

40:15

Circle Was there it was this in the evening Do you know the time frame in which this?

40:22

Sighting took place you mentioned is glowing and I'm assuming if it was in the way It started about nine o 'clock in the evening.

40:28

Okay, and continued to about three o 'clock the next morning Some the the state patrolman

40:38

Was Scared out of his mind when they heard a lot of crashing in the woods near where these creatures had gone back into the tree line

40:49

He left to go back to the barracks and call a Researcher in the area who did

40:56

UFO research to come out and take a look at what was going on They got there about midnight or so and What was what was fascinating As they're standing there looking at at the at the scene

41:12

And I'll just I'll read you some a few little excerpts here. Yeah from dr.

41:18

Schwartz's Report a bull in a nearby field was scared by something

41:25

Stephen this is the man who? Had fired at the creatures Stephen's dog also became alarmed and started tracking something the dog kept looking at a certain spot by the edge of the woods

41:37

But the group didn't see anything One of the researchers was asking Stephen some questions when suddenly

41:44

Stephen began rubbing his head and face The researcher asked him if he was okay and Stephen then began shaking back and forth as if he was going he were going to faint the researcher and the recent and Stephen's father grabbed

41:57

Stephen age 22 6 foot 2 250 pounds he began very breathing very heavily and Started growling like an animal

42:08

He flailed his arms and threw his father and the researcher to the ground His dog ran towards him then as if to attack and Stephen went after the dog the dark started crying

42:22

Well another researcher said I'm starting to feel lightheaded he became very weak and felt faint a

42:30

Third researcher began to complain about having trouble breathing During all this Stephen the original percipient and the man who fired the shots was running around Swinging his arms and loudly growling like an animal suddenly he collapsed on his face into a heavily

42:46

Heavily manured area shortly afterwards. He started to come out of it and said get away from me.

42:52

It's here get back Just then everyone present smelled a very strong sulfur or chemical like odor

43:01

One of the researchers said let's get out of here Then he and Stephen's father were helping

43:06

Stephen along When suddenly on the way down the hill Stephen pointed and yelled keep away from the corner.

43:12

It's in the corner Stephen kept mumbling that he would protect the group He also mumbled that he saw a man in a black hat and cloak carrying a sickle

43:22

He told Stephen if man doesn't straighten up then the end will come soon He also said there's a man here now who can save the world

43:31

Stephen said that he could hear his name Stephen Stephen being called from inside the woods

43:37

He then collapsed and Stephen's glasses fell off now Here is what?

43:44

Dr. Schwartz was told by Stephen during a psychiatric interview and Dr.

43:52

Schwartz, I should say Believed that Stephen was mentally sound Was very intelligent not very well educated but a very intelligent person.

44:02

Mm -hmm. She had a very high opinion of it and Dr. Schwartz reports

44:07

Stephen saying this Was it a dream I heard a crying noise

44:13

I could see in a man a man in a black robe carrying a scythe Behind this man was fire and in front of him was a force and in this force were the creatures

44:23

They were calling Stephen Stephen One was laughing. It was a tantalizing laugh and making me mad.

44:30

My hands were clenched tight Behind us was a big light in this light was something telling me to go forward go forward.

44:38

Come on It was edging me on I could see myself as crazy as a man So powerful that I wasn't scared of anything the creatures kept calling me and the light kept saying go my son

44:50

You can't be hurt. I Walked to the edge of the woods the creatures kept wailing

44:58

I looked at them and all I could think of was death and the faceless form in the black robe Who was commanding these things to kill me?

45:06

It was hate a hatred for everything I knew that these things came from this force and if they got to the light, they would be destroyed

45:14

The tension was so terrific that I passed out Then I heard he's here. He's here

45:21

But who is he? Somebody was putting a puzzle in my head my hands and ankles were hurting

45:27

Somebody was telling me that these people are going to destroy themselves. I kept seeing the date 1976 1976 it popped out of my mouth if these people don't straighten out the whole world will burn

45:43

So here you have a UFO sighting that turns in to a

45:49

Bigfoot sighting. Oh, wow with Physical creatures that the tracks were found at the scene

45:59

Creatures that interacted physically with the environment but were impervious to gunshots and Then it it morphs into this sort of full -blown almost like a

46:17

Psychic possession. Yeah, like some telepathy or something is going on there, too Yeah, so it's it's just a it's a and Dr.

46:25

Schwartz was never able to resolve, you know, he said it would be so much simpler if I could say that this young man was psychotic or Delusional but he felt this with these were real events and he was experiencing exactly or describing exactly what he'd experienced

46:43

Hmm. Yeah, that's huge. And this is something to Sarah I mean, I'm curious to see like how you'd hear a story like that in the light of just the history of your family that someone having an experience like that would really

46:58

Impact what they view about the world in regards to everything the nature of reality even spirituality as well, too

47:04

Especially if you have maybe I don't know I don't know what point of reference he had to Bigfoot or UFOs prior to this encounter

47:11

But even after that that would probably really affect who he is so you kind of see the level in which

47:17

This is an account that seems to have both the physical and and something supernatural going on Like what comes to mind when you hear it when you hear something encounter like that?

47:26

I mean that definitely have has a supernatural component to it Like this guy is claiming that this experience happened to him.

47:35

Obviously. It was very traumatic and profound That's definitely gonna shape the way that he views the world his worldview view ultimately but it's

47:47

Be prior to this happening. He had absolutely no belief or no interest in the whole topic of UFOs Yeah, Bigfoot strange creatures.

47:59

He was a very Practical down -to -earth sort of guy.

48:06

Yeah, who he worked on though. He worked on his parents farm And he also did coal mining in the area so He had no he had no interest in this whatsoever.

48:18

Mm -hmm I mean what comes to my mind with that sort of thing is that you know God says to test the spirits

48:25

Right if anything even if an angel of light comes down from heaven and proclaims a different gospel were to reject it

48:31

So obviously with something like that, that's not leading him to Christ. That's not leading him to know

48:36

Jesus as a Savior I would venture to say that was something nefarious. Yeah, and I think that's ultimately you have to ask the question

48:45

When these encounters are happening, like what is being communicated in regards to spirituality and I can tell you this just in my experience

48:52

It typically is never Jesus is the Son of God Repent and believe the gospel It usually is not the case, right?

48:59

Is there any record of what happened to this young man after this encounter? I mean after he gave this testimony

49:04

Mika and this is Life altering just from every from everything that I'm taking from this

49:10

You know, he he went on to lead a fairly normal mundane unremarkable life, hmm, this was a this was a

49:22

Just an odd interlude in his life he he had been

49:30

Raised Roman Catholic, okay his his wife. He was married at the time Was Protestant Not particularly devout or you know,

49:41

I would say they were nominally Christian but Would I you know,

49:46

I don't I have no idea whether what their status of their salvation might have been but now they were familiar enough with Christianity to recognize that Jesus was there

50:00

Jesus was the Son of God, okay But nothing

50:09

Untoward or further from this man, hmm okay, well even that's phenomenal as we wrap up part one here is that I think it's

50:19

I think it's interesting because of the fact that most of the time when you go on to like if you look up Amazon Prime or even a lot of the content regards to Bigfoot you have the people that are already very familiar with it and Looking for Some sort of encounter, but they're just following the very they're like on the very

50:38

They're on the cusp. They're like trying to find all these little clues like here and there and they're intentionally looking for it

50:44

This is a guy who has no interest in it whatsoever. And even like so mentioned afterwards He just kind of moves on with his life and just and it just goes there

50:52

So just kind of goes to show it is kind of interesting too in regards to just Yeah, I mean the whole this mean this this whole conversation me here's a guy who's not looking for it finds it and leads to a relatively normal life when you have other times when people will just Find out about although they'll have that that inclination that longing just to get a graph of something of the unknown and this it becomes part

51:13

Of their identity and their obsession. So I know it's kind of interesting. There's both sides of the equation. So Yeah, so we hope you all enjoy the first part of this conversation again.

51:22

This is just a very introductory Overviewers having some fun today is sort of at the end of the year is kind of putting together this fun conversation

51:29

They'll definitely be some opportunities to unpack this There's lots of other podcasts that go super in -depth, but this is just a general overview and just some fun episodes we're doing

51:38

So we're gonna wrap up part one here. We'll kind of jump into some other interesting topics in part two So Ray, thank you for hanging out with us in this first episode and Sarah.

51:47

This was also awesome I'm sure you had a lot of fun We're gonna have some fun to end up part two and as always

51:53

We appreciate you guys listening and please share talk to us on our social media list know what you thought about This episode and there's always a program like this cannot continue without your support

52:02

We are in a brand new year of 2022. We have a lot we have in store we'd ask that you prayerfully consider partnering with us as we head into a brand new year of ministry and a lot of Interesting and challenging topics.

52:14

We do want to explore Excuse me. So please go to the cult to show calm. There's a donate tab

52:19

We can donate what you can donate one time We're become a monthly partner with us and with all being said we'll talk to you guys next time on cultish

52:26

We're entering to the kingdom of the cults and the fringe and the occult and all that crazy stuff.