Jehovah's Witnesses REFUTED!

Welcome back to another episode of Revealed Apologetics. I'm your host Eli Ayala, and I am very excited about this specific episode. We're going to be talking about the Jehovah's Witnesses. Very, very interesting.

This is very much a part of what we would call cult apologetics. From a Orthodox Christian perspective, we see Jehovah's Witness as a cult with aberrant theology that does not have a genuine gospel, and so the Jehovah's Witness, along with Mormons and other sorts of cults that we might be familiar with, these are folks that we need to be able to share the gospel with, and so it's very important that we understand what they believe and why they believe it, and also how we provide a biblical response.

Now, for those who follow the show, you guys do know that I typically take things from a presuppositional perspective, and my guest today, Matt Slick of Karm .org, is also a presuppositionalist, so while Matt unpacks a little bit with respect to the Jehovah's Witness, their theology, and various responses, perhaps we could also try and make some presuppositional application, and we'll unpack that a little bit, keep it for folks to, you know, keep it at the mid-shelf.

We don't want to go talk over anyone's heads, but we definitely want to go into the weeds, if necessary, to unpack, really, what is a deception. The false gospel, and so this is a very important topic, and I hope folks will benefit from this episode.

Just a couple of quick announcements, and then I'll invite Matt on the screen with me. On October 18, I believe that's next Monday, 9 p .m., I'll be having Joel Sedekes on to do a debate review. He recently had a debate with the atheist YouTuber Tom Jump.

You guys remember, I also had a debate discussion with Tom as well. Joel did an excellent job from a presuppositional perspective, and so we're going to unpack that debate and kind of take a look at, you know, various applications of the presuppositional method to someone who makes the sort of arguments like Tom Jump has.

We're also going to have Anthony Rogers on on October 20th, too, and this might be interesting for folks. I'm actually having Anthony Rogers on to talk specifically about the philosophical problem of the one in the many.

So those who know presuppositionalism, we're defending the Christian worldview, and we argue that the triune God of Scripture who reveals provides the necessary preconditions for knowledge and intelligible experience, and this issue of the one in the many comes up.

That entire episode is going to be dedicated to covering that specific topic, and so I'm really excited to have Anthony Rogers on on October 20th. Also, November 18th, I'll be having Jason Lyle back on.

Jason Lyle is a PhD astrophysicist and presuppositional apologist, and he is going to be coming on to discuss the issue of the historical atom, and this is going to be within the context of Dr. William Lane Craig's recent book on the historical quest for the historical atom, and he's going to be, Dr. Lyle is going to be responding to Dr. Craig's work there, and so that's going to be very interesting for folks.

Looking forward to having Dr. Lyle on again. He's been on a couple of times, actually. And lastly, on November, let me see if I got this date correct, November 4th, I will be having, and I'm super excited about this, I'm going to be having Dr. Douglas Gruthius on.

Douglas Gruthius is a professor, and he wrote a very thick book on Christian apologetics called Christian Apologetics, and so I'll be sharing the link when he comes on so you guys can come in and ask questions and things like that.

We're going to be talking about, with Dr. Gruthius, the topic of the spiritual formation of the apologist, and so folks who are engaged in apologetics, this tends to be a very intellectually heavy discipline because we're thinking about theology, apologetics, and philosophy, things like that.

I'm going to be having Dr. Gruthius on to talk about the importance of spiritual formation. How should the spiritual life of the Christian apologist be conducted so that we are not living in an imbalanced fashion where we're only just hitting the books and there's no really, you know, spiritual relational dimension to our lives.

And so I'm looking forward to having Dr. Gruthius on on November 4th. All right, well, last announcement before I invite Matt on, sorry I had to get these out of the way, I'm super excited. If you guys know a while back, I was advertising some online classes that I was teaching on presuppositional apologetics, and I called it PresuppU, and so I offer courses on my website at revealedapologetics .com, and you could actually click on the menu PresuppU and sign up for the class.

Folks can sign up anytime, and you'll be sent all of the lectures, all of the PowerPoint slides, and all of the outlines, but starting November 1st, I will actually be starting up again the premium package in which those who sign up by November 1st will get all of that content that I just mentioned, but I will be meeting with the students who sign up once a week, and so that we can go deeper and unpack the content of the course, and it is basically an introduction to biblical apologetics.

But don't be fooled, the introduction element, we get into some pretty deep stuff, philosophy and theology and things like that. So I'm really encouraging folks, if you want to learn how to do presuppositional apologetics, you can sign up for my class, and you have up until November 1st where we'll be having our first meeting.

So revealedapologetics .com, PresuppU, and you can sign up for that right now, okay? All right, well that's it for the opening segment here, and I would like to invite Matt Slick of Karm .org. How are you doing, Matt?

Man, I was ready to go to sleep, there was so much there. I should have come in later, man.

I'm just back in there waiting. All right, so what do you want? Well, first I want to.

Point people in the direction of your website. The topic that we're going to be exploring today, Jehovah's Witnesses, Matt Slick on Karm .org has a ginormous section on his website that covers this specific area, so if you want to know how to do apologetics with Jehovah's Witnesses and share your faith in Jehovah's Witnesses, you need to go to Karm .org and check out those articles.

But we have the man, the creator, the writer of most of the content on Karm right here. So we have the famous Matt Slick. So I'll make his head grow so big that his microphone will fall off. All right, well I'm happy for that you're here because I know that you are, I used to be scared for Jehovah's Witnesses when I used to listen to your show and someone would call and you can tell that the way they were talking you would stop and be like, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

And I'm like, oh no, don't say yes! And the person would hesitate and they'll be like, yes. And I'm like, it's over. Because right there you knew where to go. You went straight for the jugular. Lovingly though, and I'm always mean.

That's true, but sometimes we just need to go straight to the foundation there. And so I think you do a wonderful job in that.

Area. On the radio people call up, you know, you got to do that because the listeners want to hear the meat. But if I'm talking to someone one-on-one, it's usually a.

Little bit different. That's right. Well let's jump right in then. Why don't you define for folks what Jehovah's Witnesses, who are they, and what do they believe? And then we'll jump right into how we would engage in some.

Of our central disagreements. The Jehovah's Witnesses came out of the Millerite movement back in the 1800s and was started by a guy named Charles Taze Russell. And there's different theories about exactly when and how he had a Bible study going, but it was incorporated in the 70s, I think it was, 1870s.

And he did not like the idea of hell, for one thing, and the deity of Christ, and he started this study. And he started publishing. And by publishing his heresies, people had information that they could go to and, you know, people fell for it.

So this organization has grown immensely. It's starting to lose members though. And it denies a doctrine of the Trinity. It denies Jesus Christ as God in flesh, denies his physical resurrection, and denies the doctrine of justification by faith alone in Christ alone.

It is a serious and major cult. So they used to teach that only 144 ,000 Jehovah's Witnesses would exist, and that when that number exceeded, they had to reinterpret certain ideas about 144 ,000, namely the heavenly class.

And so the heavenly class are going to be the ones who go to heaven, and then the earthly class will stay here on the reformed earth. And we're the swine class, we're going to hell, because we don't affirm the true doctrine of Jehovah, because we're polytheists, we believe in the Trinity, which they've misrepresented sometimes badly, and sometimes they've represented it accurately, if you go through their Watchtower materials, which I think you can go to, it's been a while since I've even looked at JW stuff, but JW .org, you can, JW .org, you can do some of their searches, and you can find different things, but with how they define the Trinity at different times in different ways.

And it's not like it progresses chronologically, it actually, they get it right, they get it wrong, they get it right again, then they get it wrong again, then wrong, then wrong, then right, then wrong.

And so it just goes like that. And I have a CD that someone sent me, a DVD actually, and it's got hundreds and hundreds and thousands of their articles, all searchable, so I can go out and find all kinds of stuff.

And they have what's called the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which they just moved from Brooklyn, New York to another place, I don't know where, I forgot where. And they produce more literature, I think, than anybody else on the planet, basically.

And they have people going door-to-door, because that's what the disciples taught, and they usually go on Saturdays, usually, usually are done around noon, and they try and get people interested in Jehovah and His kingdom, because you need to belong to Jehovah and His kingdom, and God's associated servant, the Jehovah's Witness organization, in order to avoid the penalty of the Antichrist, and the coming tribulation period, and the judgment to come.

And then if you don't make it as a Jehovah's Witness, and you're like me, you get annihilated. So they're annihilationists, and because hell is too bad, God wouldn't do that kind of a thing, etc., etc.

And that's the basics of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

So now when we when we think of a cult, when people think of cult, they think of kind of often like a really small group of people who believe strange things. But actually, just real quick, I have numbers here.

This is as of 2021, there are almost 8 .7 million Jehovah's Witnesses in 240 countries around the globe, including 1 .3 million of those right here in the United States. So this is a very large group.

Obviously, it is shrinking for various, various reasons. But I mean, it is a large group. And I think everyone that I know, has a Jehovah's Witness story of someone knocking on their door, and things like that.

So why don't we make this really practical for people? When a Jehovah's Witness knocks on your door, what should Christians expect? Because I know, it is interesting. Many people will pray, Lord, please send people in my path so that I can share the gospel.

And then Saturday morning comes around, we hear the knock, and all of a sudden, they're like, Jehovah's Witness, you know, shut the doors, you know, close the blinds, you know, lock the door. You know, what should we expect when Jehovah's Witness knock on our door?

That reminds me, I want to tell you, before I answer the question, I've done seminars where, on Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and I've said, so how many of you in here have had, you know, Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door, Mormons come to your door, and the hands go up, and I said, you want to witness?

And I said, and you basically have said, you know, I'm busy, and no thanks, we disagree. And you kind of send them on their way, and their hands just fly up in the air. And I say, well, let me reword that last part.

How many of you have said this to the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons? I know that you're preaching a false doctrine that will lead people to eternal damnation. I'm busy, could you go to my neighbor?

And that's the thing, is that when people come to your door, too many times, Christians, they don't do anything. They, like you said, close the door, lock the door, close the blinds, don't want to do anything.

What you should do is engage them and talk to them. You'll find that they're polite, they're nice, but you'll also find that they're brainwashed in that they are only looking for people who are interested in having a discussion.

They're not looking to have an engagement. Like, say you or I, you know, if we're home, ding-dong, we get up and there are J-dubs at the door, we're going to engage them. And what they're going to do then is, after a few minutes, say, well, thank you, we've got to be on our way.

And then they'll mark your door on the paper, you know, they mark your addresses, don't go to this house. And so what they do is, they try and get Bible studies started in different neighborhoods this way.

They avoid the people who are difficult. But, you know, I've invited them in before, and they've come in, and we've talked, and when they're in, it takes longer for them to leave, and I can tell you stories about that.

But one of the things I do recommend is this, and I'm serious about this, I know a lot of Christians don't like this idea of actually picking up your cross and following after Christ, but when they come to the neighborhood, and you talk to them very politely, and, you know, go to CARM, other websites, learn about the J-dubs, go to the CARM forward slash cut, C-U-T, and for the, it'll lead you to the cut and paste section, you can go to the Jehovah's Witness stuff, and it's just very succinct information, and that's all you really need.

And you can just have that available, printed up, ready, you can just stay in there with the Mormons. But nevertheless, so what happens is, when they leave, I go get my car keys, I go get my shoes, and then I get some information if I have it, and I wait till they're just a few doors down around the block corner, and then I follow them in my car.

And I have my airco on, and I'm relaxing, and I stay, you know, a few hundred feet behind them, and what I'm looking for is them spending time at someone's house, or going into that house. Now, you know, you can tell, no thinking, not interested, and then they walk away.

But if there's a five-minute conversation, that's a house I'm going to go back to, either knock on the door or provide information. And so once, as an example, I was just driving down the road on a car going someplace, so I just peeled around and followed them, and I can still remember very clearly, they went to an apartment complex, knocked on the door, went right inside, the door closed.

So they had an appointment. Okay, so I went back a couple hours later with some information, and I remember talking to the lady at the door, and I said, hi, you know, I said, this is gonna sound a little bit odd, but I said, my name's Matt, I'm a Christian, and I noticed that some Jehovah's Witnesses were here, and they stuff, and if you're, if it's okay with you, I could tell you a couple of things they haven't told you.

It's very serious. And she said, well, what do you mean? We ended up talking for 20 minutes, and I gave her information, and she, at the end of the conversation, she said, okay, I'm gonna stop studying with them.

I won't have anything to do with them anymore. And then I said, here's a, you know, go to these good churches and things like this. So there's things you can do, you know, and, and things you should do, you know, to come into your door.

Don't let them go to your neighbor's door and preach the false doctrine that are gonna damn people to hell.

So what, so what is that false doctrine then? So let's kind of, let's kind of actually clarify what they teach, and why it's so, why it's problematic. Are you stronger? Why is it damning? I mean, what is the, what is the gospel for the Jehovah's Witness?

Well, the gospel for Jehovah's Witnesses, and what I'll do is I'll go to their site, well, the documentation on my site, on the cut slash Jehovah's Witness stuff, and on salvation, what they say, this is February 15th, 1983, page 12.

There are four requirements for salvation. Now, I could just paraphrase it, but I'm gonna read it. Many have found the second requirement more difficult, it is to obey God's law, yes, to confirm one's life to the moral requirements that are in the gospel.

All right, so they teach this because it's a non-Christian cult. Why do they teach? This is called soteriology. Why do they teach synergistic soteriology? Synergism is you cooperate with God, you do good things in order to be saved.

So they have what's called synergistic soteriology. Christianity is monergistic. That means there's just one thing involved in salvation, that's faith. God grants it to us, Liptons 129. So why do the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, and other cults like that have a false gospel?

The reason they have a false gospel is because they have a false Christ. So they'll deny that Jesus is God in flesh. Now here's the thing, if Jesus is God in flesh, according with the scriptures teach, John 1 1 and verse 14, the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Colossians 2 9, for in him dwells all the fullness of deity and bodily form. And Hebrews 1 8, but of the Son the Father says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. It's a quote from Psalm 45 verse 6.

So when the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, we know that he has two distinct natures, and these two natures mean that he has a divine nature and a human nature. This is called the hypostatic union. And I won't get all the particulars of theological this and that, but to say this, that what happens is he's God, he's man, and he, because he's God, he can offer sacrifice of divine value.

And because he's man, he can offer sacrifice on behalf of people. And because our sin is against God, we sin against God. And so God needs to be appeased, and God comes down, and he does this in the person of Christ.

And so this is necessary, because without Jesus being God in flesh, or he's like Michael the Archangel, as Jehovah's Witnesses teach, that Michael the Archangel became a man. And there's serious logical ontological issues there, and continuity problems, but they'll say that, well, he's not God.

Well, then how is this sacrifice of divine value? Well, it's not of divine value, it just opens a door that Adam closed. So then you step to the door, you open the door to your own works, hence synergistic soteriology, cooperative efforts with God for salvation.

And the reason they have a false Christ is because they have a false God. And in Jehovah's Witnesses, God is one person, and biblically speaking, he's a trinity, which then allows a second person to become flesh, and then offer divine sacrifice for our sins.

So this is,.

That's the Christian position. That's the Christian perspective.

Okay, so Jehovah's Witnesses are unitarian, they believe God is one being who is also one person. Orthodox Christianity is trinitarian, we believe that there is one God who is, there's one being of God who exists in three co-eternal simultaneous persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Okay, so we can go through John 1 .1, John 1 .14, Colossians, the Hebrew passages, but we understand that every time a Christian will quote these scriptures, they will find very quickly that the Jehovah's Witness Bible, the New World Translation, doesn't say exactly what our Bibles say, which is remarkable.

I spoke with a Jehovah's Witness once, and he had his Bible open, and I asked him, do you mind if I use my Bible? And he was like, sure, as though he didn't know there was a difference. Okay, so why don't you go through a couple of key passages that Christians often bring up in responding to the Jehovah's Witness denial of the deity of Christ, or the Trinity, but in the NWT, the New World Translation, it's slightly altered there.

So how could we navigate that issue of.

Different translations and interacting with them from Scripture? Well, you sign.

Up for a Greek class and take it for four years so that you can talk to them, or what you do is you go to websites like CARM, or I've listed some differences in the NWT, and they've actually got a new version.

I have to update this stuff because they've modified it even further. Okay. There were some verses that I could use in their second, not this version, but the previous version that I could use that really stumped them, and now they've altered those as well, and I can tell you what that is.

But here's some of the.

Stuff that's really easy. Are you talking about that Amos passage? Genesis 1924.

Okay. There's also a passage in Amos. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, okay. All right, so let's go. So unpack that for us. How do we navigate those, you know, it's like, of course Jesus is God. Here, look, John 1 .1.

I mean, how would you interact with the Jehovah's Witnesses? Yeah, but that's not what it.

Says. See, what I do, I don't want to argue with them about John 1 .1, because they're gonna have their stuff. They're prepared. What I recommend people do, believe it or not, is to go to a kingdom hall.

To just go. They're not gonna throw you out. They're not gonna treat you badly. Just walk in on a Sunday service and just sit there. Don't, you know, take literature. Be polite. Don't argue. The reason I say this is because you need to understand what happens in there, to understand why I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna tell you.

They are inculcated. To inculcate means to teach by repetition. So they're brainwashed. Inculcation and brainwashing are synonymous, depending what's pejorative, what's not. But so you have to understand that they have people who get up, they'll stand up, they'll open the watchtower, they'll open the Bible, and they'll say things like, we know Jesus is not God, because in John 14 .20, because if Jesus was God, he'd be equal to God, the Father.

Let's go to John 14 .28. Jesus says the Father's greater than I. See? This is why he's not God. They do this kind of a thing, and they're ripping things out of context. They're leading them mentally without doing any thought.

What happens is the watchtower and the awake magazine that they'll study out of another books that they have, they have a JW logic. And like I just exemplified, the JW logic is pseudo logic, but they don't know.

They don't know about context, they don't know about interrelationships of words, they don't know about conceptual ideas and context. And so because of this, the Jehovah's Witness just thinks, yeah, the Bible, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is so accurate, is so good, it's so true, it's the prophet of God.

And so what they do is they give their will-heart-mind over to the prophet of God. And I got quotes about them being a prophet, and then we got false prophecies and stuff. That's another topic in the Watchtower.

And so you have to understand that they are prepared then against the pagan, Trinitarian, tritheistic people who will go to John 1 .1. They'll go to John 1 .1. They're gonna go to John 8 .58, before Abraham was, I am.

Well, which is present active indicative, which is literally is I am. It's present tense, active, performing the action, indicative, first-person singular, which means I am the one doing the action. You know, I am.

And they translate it as I have been, which is the perfect tense. And so they say before Abraham was, I have been. Well, I can argue with them on this, because I know Greek. But they can't, or most everybody cannot.

So when I train people, I say, you don't want to really do that. Yes and no. I mean, if you want to do it, do it, you know, and learn from it. That's fine. And so what you can do, for example, is go to Colossians 1 .15 and 16.

And for he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all, the NWT will say, all other things were created, both in the heavens, on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions, rulers or authorities.

All other things have been created through him. He is before all other things, and in him all other things hold together. Now this one isn't too bad to memorize, because that pericope, it's actually just Colossians 1 .16, 17.

You want to stay away from verse 15, because it says firstborn, which is protoktos, and it's protiktos, is first created, and get in some Greek stuff. And you guys don't know that, so don't worry about it.

But if you just, you know, Colossians 1 .16 and 17, you can say, why is it my Bible does not have the word other, but your Bible does, four times? And the reason is, it is not in the Greek. Now if you want, depends on how much people want to do, they can actually get what we call the purple people eater.

And it's the interlinear that the Jehovah's Witness organization put out many years ago. And it has... That's what it's called? That's what it's called? We'd call it, sorry, I'm so used to calling it over the years, the purple people eater, I didn't even think about it.

But that's, I have one at the garage, and a green one too, and you can actually show the Greek in their own publications. And that's, okay, this is if you're into this kind of stuff. Okay, but sure, what you can do is just say, well in Greek, there's two words for the word other, alas and heteros.

Heteros, heterosexual. Heteros is another of a different kind. Alas is another of the same kind. Neither one is used there. I just asked the J-dubs, why is that? And they were just having a discussion, and they're gonna clarify, and say, well my Bible here doesn't have the word other.

And I try to be very careful, I don't want to tell them I know too much, okay. Say, so I happen to know that, I've read some sources, right, which is all true. And so alas and heteros, it's not there in the Greek.

I actually went online, I've looked, it's not there. You can be very polite, and how come you guys put that there? And then what you want to do is have them try and read it without the word other. Hmm.

Just see if they can do it. They can't do it. They can't do it. They stumble, oh we got to go, we got to leave. But at least you've done this when you go to Colossians 1, 16 and 17. Because you need to sit there with a Jehovah's Witness.

I'm actually teaching you something else you guys don't know I'm teaching you. I'll explain what it is here in a minute. I'm pretty slick. What you want to do when you go to Colossians 1, 16 and 17, is have that prepared, alas and heteros, and be able to just show your Bible, and show theirs.

And you can just very politely ask them to explain why the difference is there. And go on like blueletterbible .org, go look at the Greek, and you can say, you can see it in a little later, it's not there.

So how come you, you know, in Colossians 1, 16 and 17, how come you, you could change it and have them read it. Okay. And then this is a conversation. Now one of the things I'm doing here is repeating Colossians 1, 16 and 17 to you over and over and over again.

Because I want you to remember this, Colossians 1, 16 and 17. You should take your Bible, and if you have a page in the back that's blank, just write Colossians 1, 15, 16, Jehovah's Witnesses, other, alas, heteros, not there in the Greek.

Why do they add it? Okay. Four times. It's all you got to do. And you can go through and do that. And that's just one of the slick and quick approaches. I got some that are better, but this gets you used to this kind of stuff.

You know, I've got stuff that we take the, you know, the notch on the burner up a little. Sure, sure. And I've got stuff like that so we can, I can show.

You a few. Right. And this, and this is not for deceptive purposes. Like you said before, you don't want to give away that you know this stuff. Not because you're trying to be deceptive, but once you give that away, the lines of communication are broken.

They're, they're out and you want to be able to get to the, hopefully get to the gospel with this person and get them to question what they take to be a valid authority, which we take to be very problematic.

So, so I just wanted to point that out there. All right. Well, okay. So they have different translations. This is important to kind of know. I mean, and you don't need to know Greek to do what you just did.

I mean, there's just simple little word studies, you know, little things you could do in your spare time to prepare yourselves for things like this. Well, let's jump into some of the theology then. How would you go about it?

You know, Jehovah's Witness says, you know, Hey, I have the truth and you can't refute the truth. How would you begin then? Well, let's assume what you're about to do is not what the average person is going to do, but for content purposes, how would you refute?

I mean, I've, I've entitled this, this episode, Jehovah's Witnesses Refuted. How would you begin to refute Jehovah's Witness theology and pull it apart one brick at a time? And before you do that, before you do that, I want to let folks know if you have any questions about Jehovah's Witness theology apologetics, you can put them in the comments.

We'll be doing that as we do in our every show at the tail end. So make sure you ask questions if you have,.

But go ahead, Matt. One brick, brick by brick. All right. You want to listen,.

Witnessing techniques and witnessing way to show that they have things that are wrong. Um, when you made a comment though, which I wanted to respond to, you said that, uh, you know, they'll say, well, we have the truth and they call themselves their organization, the truth.

How long ago did you find the truth? And so this is an important thing. You have to understand this is their mentality. They have the truth. We don't. So when they say to me, you know, look, you know, we have the truth and you know, you can't really deal with that.

I'll say, if you've got the truth, you are correct. I would not be able to. I've got no problem. And maybe, and I'll say to them, maybe you could help me understand some things. It's always possible that they could.

So I say, maybe you could, I don't believe that they can, but no, I've learned some things from cults. They've taught me some things I haven't known. So it's always true. You know, maybe you could. And I'll say, I've got some things in the Bible that I'd like to, to have, you know, have you take a look at.

Now I used, at this point I'd go to Genesis 1924 and it was four, 10 and 11, but can't do that anymore because they changed the Bible and changed those texts. And, um, so I'll skip those for now and I'll do something else.

And this works. Okay. This, this is pretty good. And I'll say, look, can we go to Psalm 116 verse four? And it's Psalm 116, four. It says, I called upon the name of, and to use their Bible, use their Bible.

And I called upon the name of Yahweh or Jehovah. They'll say, Jehovah, I asked you to save my life. And I'll say, that's a prayer, right? It's calling upon Jehovah and only Jehovah, right? Yeah. And Zechariah 13, nine, you'll see a similar phraseology.

And what I'll say is whenever there's this phrase, I speak like this to them calmly and slowly. I'll say, whenever you see this phrase, this is what I've seen here, that this phrase call upon the name of Jehovah, it occurs in different places.

I've looked at it. If you're calling on the name of Jehovah, called on the name of Jehovah, but the phrase called the name of Jehovah, not just the word, you know, Jehovah or the word name or the word called, but the phrase.

I say this this way on purpose, okay? That phrase, whenever it appears, it's always a prayer, adoration, whatever it is, to Jehovah alone, right? And they'll say, yes, no problem with that. Do you know what the Septuagint is?

And they'll say, well, some say yes, some say no. I'll explain. The Septuagint is the, what the Jews did around 200-ish BC, they took the Old Testament Hebrew and they translated it into the Greek. They translated it into the Greek.

And when they got to this phrase, this is before Jesus was ever born, you know, we have the Septuagint copies today. And when they got to this phrase, call upon the name of Jehovah, they translated it into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord.

That's what they did. And I'll say, Kuhn, look in your Bible. And let's see if I can do this. I haven't done this for so long. I'll go to JW .org. And then what I'm going to do is go to Bible Teachings Library and go to online Bible.

And I'm going to go to, display in English. And King, ooh, they even have a Kingdom Interlinear on there. Yeah. Boy, I got so much stuff.