When is the Right Time to Leave a Church?

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When leadership is deviating from the gospel and we are convicted to leave the church

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Should we warn others for before leaving? I'm going to add to this. How should we conduct ourselves?

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When is the right time to leave a church? Yeah, how do we how do we handle that if we fully in conscience believe that the ministry is not being faithful To the design of the and the calling to preach the gospel

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This is this is what I thought the original question was in the last one So I want to be clear here. We're not talking about a secondary issue

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We're talking about the gospel is not being preached because that that that will change my answer

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I'm see I'm understanding this question to be primary issues, but I think it's important to weave in how you handle second second

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Well, I think yeah, we can answer both. Yeah. Yeah, I I was explaining this to somebody recently they're wrestling with this whether they should leave the church or not and You know, it would all be great we lived in Escondido, but we don't

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I totally come here it'd be awesome Or we lived in Asheville, you know

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So we do live in cities where there the gospel is being preached But at times you feel like you're taking it in with uh you know some other garbage and You you have really

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If you've come to the conclusion that the gospel is not being preached It is I've got to go I've got to leave because I asked this

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I asked this question to this individuals. I said Do you find it hard to invite people to your church and both of them are like, yeah, we can't do it.

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That's a problem That's your family, right? That's this is where you come to gather and your

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God comes and speaks to you and you're like I don't want to brought I don't invite people to have that conversation with God You with me for a moment here.

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This is not good So if you've determined that you need to leave I think we can handle how you should leave

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I think we can talk about that in a minute you can but You should never leave until you have a place to go you know

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There there were literally some people who left California and moved out to Tennessee They just assumed they were gonna buy 40 acres have a job and off they go

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That is not what happened. Yeah, a lot of people just kind of treat church that way like well, whatever We'll just find the next church

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And I don't think you should do that you may consider you may have to relocate, you know The next town over you've got to be able to be fed and shepherded it's required of you that you are assembling and you're receiving and It's part of God's design for how he advances the mission

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So I'll say that so you guys speak to it and then we can talk about how you leave Yeah, so to me the answer is completely different based upon whether we're talking about The gospel isn't being preached in this church

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Versus there are secondary matters that are real and significant that I disagree over Because these are completely different worlds in my mind in the first case if it is

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Objectively verifiable the gospel is not being preached in this church. The pastor should be fired I don't know what your church polity is

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But like this is not like burn this thing down and let's let's revitalize it like that is that's my answer on that one

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I don't mean be a jerk. I don't mean Be out of control on social media.

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I don't mean gossip and slander, but I mean through orderly mechanisms Whatever your polity is it's like this isn't good and this is not a true church because Christ is not being preached

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That is very different on the other one. Let's just say it's a secondary matter over whatever

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Let's not say because we've got to agree on secondary matters to have a church together baptism You know the Lord's Supper how we minister the sacraments church governance things like that But there are other things that we could say, you know, how you how you think household should be arranged, etc

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Like let's say we disagree on a matter like that. I would say This how

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I've talked to people in our context when they have disagreements with our pastors in our church on these issues It's like brother sister.

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You have complete freedom in Christ to be a member of any gospel preaching church you choose my desire and hope for you is that you find a congregation where you are able to worship the

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Lord in good conscience and What we would want it if that's not here We want to be able to pastor you and help you find that congregation and we want you to keep in touch with us as you're

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Looking for it. So we want to be open -handed with these things. Obviously, we're happy to reason over them But I think then we get into the question of how to leave well, because then if it's a secondary matter,

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I Would encourage people to think in these terms if you look around and you think you know If I had something to say about this,

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I would do things differently Things could be done differently. That's one thing.

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You could probably stay you could go but if you look around and you think biblically speaking I'm convicted that things should be done differently.

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That's when you need to consider leaving then you think about how do I leave? Well, right you're respectful.

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You're humble. You're grateful. You assume well the leadership you assume Well the saints of that congregation you don't say much you don't cause division you peacefully move on to another congregation

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And we go about our lives on the spot tertiary issues or issues of preference

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Do you guys agree with everything that happens at your churches tertiary? Brother, I don't I don't even agree.

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I mean, we don't even have unanimity amongst our elders We agree on all secondary matters at a certain level But when it comes to the implementation of certain things there can even be disagreement amongst elders and they're the pastors

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And so then and so certainly there are in the congregation and tertiary matters. Are you kidding me?

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I mean, it's just like we've got people we do things at our church Yeah, if I was a dictator I would not that way well,

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I always say this I always say this we build our church on No one's preferences including my own. That's right, right?

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I mean, what are we doing if we're just united around preface? There's other more significant than yourself. I think one of the things to think about in this connection is

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Yeah, and maybe moving a little bit into handling it. Well, cuz I agree with everything you brothers just said

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I mean, it's a central issue. Our lives are pretty short and we have especially if you're raising children

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I see a lot of people who will stay in a church merely for social reasons

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Because their family and they're a long time been there a long time. Yeah, my grandma was baptized in the building

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I mean you get all kinds of sentimental reasons right for the way the reason and then and yet you can really harm the spiritual development of your children and Typically what happens then to which is not healthy is you go home and what you're doing in your home is complaining about the church and you know, you're you're you're essentially

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Telling teaching and training your children how to leave the church early So you want to make sure you're maintaining a positive view of the church if your conscience is that bound?

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that you can't do that then yes, you have to you need to go else you have to do that for the sake of Your family and children and and but I think one of the things in terms of leaving correctly

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You have something you want to add to that? No, you're going the right direction. I want to go. Oh, I'm glad.

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I hope you feel affirmed You're as smart as me as of right now

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So one of the things to think about when you're thinking of leaving correctly is to realize you know You should have elders in the church who care for you

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Elders are given to oversee their job is now a lot of this Presupposes a

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CEO model that we're so used to in American Church. The pastor's running the show pastors doing everything

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He's the unquestionable guy. He's the guy who you can't get to the guy you can't touch all that's presupposed in a lot of this

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One of the beauties of the eldership is if an elderships Functioning in a healthy way is their job is to oversee the ministry

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The pastor is not a lone ranger The pastor is accountable to the elders himself at least should be that's why a good

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Presbyterian government is healthy But brother we affirm so we affirm a plurality of elders Goodness, and now we disagree on that.

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Did you hear that? I got a clap. It's your own church. I'm not done. So So so I guess what

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I'm saying is talk to your elders if you have good elders They should be visiting you caring for you

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And and you know a lot of times on the other side of it what we experience as pastors is there's a lot of people

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Who are never happy with the church? So you always want to check your attitude and make sure that you know a lot of people move around and then we don't know

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Why like all of a sudden so -and -so is just gone right and then we hear from some family member Well, they didn't like this that happened or they were mad at something you said and and you know

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I think I still think in the old days, you know, one of the things when my dad Had to leave the church because of the things that were happening in his church, you know

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He I remember the model he set for me as a young child He went to that pastor

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Yes And he talked to that pastor and he worked with the elders and finally when he couldn't come he explained to them why he had

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To move on that was a noble way. Yes. Yeah, absolutely That's what I wanted to jump on was that the first time

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Your elder or pastor, let's say your dispensational church That they hear about your issue is after you have left or that you're leaving

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That's Peter and and Hebrews say you need to allow them to shepherd you

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So if you're having a struggle, that's very significant to the point. You might detach yourself from the body

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You need to go to them first. Here's my struggle Will you shepherd me right and even if you're in a dispensational church, let them let that pastor do his job, right?

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So I would say this is maybe kind of a hybrid spot and I realize it's five o 'clock So we need to shut this thing down like we talked about the

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Gospels not being preached We talked about a secondary issue. I think many of you may encounter situations where you're in a church and it's kind of well

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It's sort of in between guys. It's almost like a 1 .5 kind of issue And there

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I think my encouragement is if you think like let's just say the differences are over The distinction between the law and the gospel.

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That's a big deal. It is big deal Okay now but you do agree if I were to ask you this is what

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I always ask people because they're like man I go to a church and they don't they don't understand the law gospel distinction or they're not we're not covenantal

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Something like that. What should I do? It's like, all right Do you think that Jesus is being preached there and I'll say well, yeah,

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I do I think that Christ is being preached as the Savior of sinners, you know, not on our merit. It's on his merit

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We're to trust in him alone. Okay, then we might disagree on some significant issues of doctrine and theology

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But I think that's a true church what I would encourage you to do there Go to your pastor if you think that he is able to have the conversation engage and talk

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Do not necessarily expect that you're gonna persuade him but then if you're not able to I think you you leave peacefully if you already know that man this church is

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United in their convictions that are not law gospel. They're not covenantal and the Lord's doing some good here, but I'm dying spiritually

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That's what I would just say be kind be humble go to your pastor and say, you know I have some different doctrinal convictions that are significant for me and my family and we need to go elsewhere and just leave it at that But you have to go somewhere.

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Yeah, but I think this is this is how you reason through what does it look like to leave? Well based upon what