April 2, 2019 Show with Ryan Denton & Scott Smith on “A Certain Sound: A Primer On Open Air Preaching” (Part 2)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on the second day of April 2019

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I hope that most of you got over the trauma you may have received yesterday

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When I announced that I had converted to five -point Arminianism and and left the

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Fellowship of Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle a Reformed Baptist Church to join a Wesleyan congregation as a

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April Fool's joke and So I hope that Most of you are not holding on any on to any grudges against me for that joke and that we can move on as normal now

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I'm delighted to have on the show to returning guests We have

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Ryan Denton Who was a pastor on the Navajo Reservation before starting

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Christ in the wilderness ministries which he has directed since 2016 and Scott Smith who ran a classical

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Christian school for 17 years in Orlando, Florida before Going into open -air preaching ministry full -time and today we are addressing part two of a discussion that we began some weeks ago on the book that they have co -authored a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching and It's my honor and privilege to welcome you both to iron sharpens iron radio.

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Once again, Ryan Denton and Scott Smith And Let me give our email address out right away for our listeners who

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Want to ask a question of you two? It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris a r n z e n gmail .com

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and Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter in fact

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If anybody after this show is over if you missed part one of our discussion with Ryan Denton and Scott Smith the first part of this interview originally aired on March 11th

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Monday March 11th so if you go to the archive of iron sharpens iron radio .com

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and look into the past shows podcast archive if You type in either of their names

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Ryan Denton or Scott Smith It should come up and that would be the March 11th broadcast.

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That was part two. I'm sorry. That was part one of What we are discussing today in part two

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That is a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching a book that has been recently published by our friends at Reformation Heritage books

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First of all before we go into this topic again about open -air preaching Ryan Denton for those of our listeners who did not hear you the first time

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Why don't you tell our listeners about Christ in the wild ministries? The Christ in the wild ministries is we're based in El Paso, Texas but we do travel around the country sometimes into the

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UK and Our primary purpose is to bring the gospel outside of the church walls

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Primarily through open -air preaching, but that could also include jails prisons homeless shelters

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Things like that. So it's it's it's barely just a Way to to go and preach

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Christ. We also do training and discipleship for those Men who want to also learn how to preach in the open air.

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So we do that locally. We also as as opportunities arise, we'll go and do trainings in other areas, too, but That's that's mainly what we do.

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That's the main focus work Under the oversight or the accountability of our local church here in El Paso and Glad to have their their backing and support and yeah been doing it since 2016

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And I assume that if you're preaching open -air to prison inmates somebody better call the warden because they've escaped

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I Guess unless you're in the yard somehow, but yeah, I guess so. It's always Parts always been inside right or perhaps a chain gang

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I don't I think that there may be some places down south and still have chain gangs but And I hope

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I didn't Misspeak when I announced the name of your ministry,

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I think I let the last time I started by Calling it Christ in the wilderness ministries, and I apologize for that's

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Christ in the wild No, that's fine, right and For anybody wants to look up that website.

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It's Christ in the wild calm Christ in the wild calm now

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Scott Smith Tell us something about your school master ministries

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Sure, I used to be I started a prep school down in Florida and Did that for 17 years, but once I really got the desire to do evangelism full -time

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That was just a natural segue from having been a school master to thinking about the law as a school master That leads to Christ.

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So I just kind of kept that theme of school master I just sort of put on the evangelist hat that the teacher had but but but that was the goal was to use the law as we would learn from recovery and then you know, then lead them to Christ and that was kind of a theme that got me going but I spent most of my time training guys

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As opposed to me just going out by myself I would spend a lot of time with guys in different cities tried to set up to actually set up teams in about seven or eight different cities and I would go back around and set time with these guys and try to Nurture and encourage them and the calling that you know that I felt the

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Lord had placed on that But a lot of guys didn't end up making it full -time. It really wasn't probably the best thing for them

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So I came to a point where I realized The training while important needed to take second fiddle to just actually being on the campus myself with guys to do it full -time

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And so I transitioned about five years ago, and I do a lot of Preaching on campuses pretty much around the country, you know with Ryan and other full -time guys

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And then anyone wants to come to get trained at those campuses. I'll still mentor them and spend time with them

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But you know, it's hard to do what only the Holy Spirit can do for Amen and you said something very important about the law which is our school master

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Yeah, that makes us realize how sinful we are and makes us realize that we are in desperate and urgent need of a

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Savior if indeed that that will That will occur if indeed the Lord has mercy on us and regenerates us and open opens our eyes

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It gives us new hearts and new ears But this is a common thing.

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I'm sure you would agree in the modern -day Evangelical world to cut out that part

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Yeah, they think that Perhaps they're confusing

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The ceremonial law of the Old Covenant and they think that you are or we are

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Dragging people back into the heresy of the Judaizers or or perhaps they have just a very

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Horrible and heretical watered -down gospel that is devoid of repentance

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Where you are just to tell everybody That all you've got to do is say

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I'm a sinner and I need Jesus and perhaps today You don't even need to say that you're a sinner You just need

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Jesus and bingo you're saved you don't have anything to worry about no matter how you live no matter how

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You know in allegiance to Satan you might be for the remainder of your life. You look you are being told that you are saved

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And this of course is one of the worst tragedies That has saturated the church.

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Would you not both agree with that? Yeah, yeah, I think I think both legalism and antinomianism both are dangerous, you know

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Culverts you don't want to drop into so but yes, it seems like right now people like at the abortion clinic

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They kill their babies and then they say Jesus understands my pastor told me God knows and he understands and that means just awful

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What they'll say at these killing places. So yeah, the the antinomianism is this is really very very bad in the professing church

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So the same thing on the college campus and when you go there you have the one of our most persistent

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Nemesis are the professing Christians a lot of them and and they oppose any kind of mention of sin

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You know the righteousness of God holiness of God, especially hell things like that So it really whenever you go out of the church with the gospel that that's definitely what you encounter

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Now I'm assuming I'm sorry University of New Mexico This past week and after we had preached for about four straight hours using the law how many people see there was sinners need of a

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Savior as we were leaving a Christian from one of the group says, you know, I just have something to say and I suppose the priest teacher

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I can't stop you. He basically get up and he said look, you know God knows we all make mistakes and there isn't anybody that's perfect and these guys aren't perfect and you know

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God loves you. Don't don't get all worried about stuff. I'm here. It's like Ready contradicted, you know

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Yeah, I have been so Disturbed for I mean people think

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I'm mentally disturbed anyway, but I've been so just I've been so disturbed ever since being a part of the

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Christian radio industry to hear what the predominant number of Successful and I may and when

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I say successful I'm talking about perhaps in regard to the numerical growth of their audience and the

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The number of radio stations they are on either nationally or globally and I'm of course,

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I'm not trashing everybody because I am on the radio myself, so But the majority seem to be teaching a very smooth and easy

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Gospel devoid of Repentance and it really in the long run diminishes radically diminishes if not totally eclipses anything amazing that it that is about grace and Anything that is good about the good news because if you don't know that you are a wretched sinner headed for hell

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Why would you want to celebrate? giving up everything that you are

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Participating in or loving that has become an idol in your life That that are offenses to God.

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Why would you be celebrating giving all of that up to become a Christian? if If indeed the the good news is not astronomically phenomenal

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Well, I want to make sure that we cover some things that we didn't cover last time and one of those things before I go into a do's and don'ts when it comes to Open air preaching and perhaps we could even start with the don'ts in a moment before we go to the do's but one thing that is very controversial about reformed evangelism and Perhaps this was would be something that would make you two very unique in the world of open -air preachers because I have heard

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From many of the open -air preachers that I know That reformed open -air evangelists, although a growing number of Christians Who are involved in open -air preaching are reformed that they would appear to be in the minority

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I don't know if you would agree with that or not. Would you? Yeah, yeah

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Well, one of the One of the controversies involved in the the approach to Evangelizing the lost and this gets people really upset

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If they are not reformed and even some misguided people who

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Claim to be reformed but don't seem to be consistent on this area The majority of people that are

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Christians especially evangelicals Will approach total strangers and that would be the majority of people you'd be preaching to in an open -air evangelism and tell them

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God loves you and Sent his son to die for you now

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According to reformed theology. The only one you can say that to are those assembled in the church

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Who you are assuming are Christian because even in the church we cannot read minds and hearts, but we are assuming that those gathered there are believers

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And you might even want to be more specific and say something like this This is not a message for those who are visiting here who do not yet know

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Christ, but if you are a Christian God loves you and sent his son

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Jesus Christ to die for you But but people use that phrase in a very haphazard way and a way where they would include

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Openly lost people in that message, but that isn't that a dangerous thing.

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Isn't it a dangerous level of comfort? That you're giving to total strangers by telling them that God loves you and sent his son to die for you because in my opinion

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If I was hearing that as a lost person in the crowd, I would say well, that's good news great

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Thanks for letting me know. I guess I could just go home now and do what I was doing before God loves me. Jesus died for my sins.

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What more do I need than that? See you later. I mean, can you both respond to that? Yeah, go ahead.

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Well, you know, it's the really the the inconsistency of Saying that Jesus died for you and yet if you die in your sins, you still go to hell

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And I think that's one of the reasons why why hell is downplayed one of the few reasons I think there are several but I think that is one of them just inconsistent theology and then also

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We were talking about antinomianism earlier And it's like you said Chris if if I know that that what

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I'm doing is wrong and yet God loves me Anyways, and and Christ died for my sins. They're really there really is no

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No motive or certainly no urgency to actually investigate. You know, what? What is this

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God that they're talking about? Who is this God? What what does it mean that Christ? Has died for sin and and is sin really that bad if God loves me

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Anyways, despite all these sins that I'm that I'm living in right now so it's definitely it's definitely hazardous for evangelism and Open -air preaching also.

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Yeah, and it's something we encounter every day every time we go out That's No, no evangelist has the right to look at a crowd and say

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God loves you But the reality is and I told the kids this the other day at University of Mexico God loves and God hates and they immediately screamed out.

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What do you mean? God hates and I was like sure You know some five five or you know, why Jacob? I love you.

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Sorry They can't even imagine that God would ever hate but I said look it's because God is good that he hates and if you won't

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Repent if you won't respond to this gospel If you won't come under the lordship of Christ If you won't call on the name of the

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Lord, you will be an object at that hatred because God is good But that's why you're in great danger. So instead of saying

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God loves everybody We need to say God loves those that have come under the lordship of Christ those have called on the name of the

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Lord those that have shown the same love and affection for Christ that the Father has for Christ and And that's a that's a minority and I don't mind even saying it to the crowd, you know

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Many you many are called fewer chosen and brought as the way to lead the destruction. It's really a

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Incredibly bad theology and very in my view Dangerous and mean to say to these poor perishing sinners that God loves them just the way they are just isn't true

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Publicly now would it be appropriate as a believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace as a reformed

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Christian? To perhaps not be as specific and To appear as if you are a prophet by telling people that God loves you and sent his son to die for you

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Would it be appropriate to be more general and still remain faithful to what the Bible teaches and say?

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God loves sinners and sent his son to die for sinners. You're not telling The people that he died that Christ died for every sinner we who believe in particular redemption or definite atonement or limited atonement

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We don't believe that Christ died for every sinner because if he died for every sinner every sinner would be saved the every sinner would be redeemed every sinner would have his sins atoned for because Christ completed a perfect work on Calvary he didn't

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Provide a hypothetical salvation or he didn't make men savable by dying

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He saved them he redeemed them and he made an atonement for their sin But would it be appropriate to say

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Jesus died for sinners? Yeah, I think it is and some of the

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Language that I think is also appropriate to say, you know, Christ died for his sheep

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Christ died for those who? Come to him in faith Christ died for those who hear his voice In other words, you're not you're not necessarily excluding anybody

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Trying to lift up Christ in a way that that does make him the Savior of sinners While at the same time acknowledging that it's not

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It's not unconditional. I mean God's love is conditioned upon the fact that You believe in Christ and of course, we know that that belief is something that God has decreed in eternity past But it's just you know, when you're preaching the gospel,

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I think it does Most definitely include the fact that Christ has died for for sinners.

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That's that's why he that's why he came to earth that's what he's come to do and he still saved sinners today across the world and yeah, but it is you know, it's a fine line because because of all the

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Really just the poor theology that's out there. It is a fine line because I think in our heads we we want to go to such an

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Extreme to make sure that that we don't cross over and sound like we're Arminians But you know if you think about it,

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I mean the people that we preach to by and large They don't have a clue, you know about reformed theology or many are many of theology

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And and so I think it's I think sometimes we can air by going so far to the extreme and making

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Christ so Exclusive that and he is exclusive but in the sense of preaching, you know that Christ only died for the elect

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Well, that's true But in the minds of the loss unless we're explaining what that means.

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I think the danger is to make Christ Not for the people we're preaching to With the you know it as far as just making a blanket statement

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That that almost sounds like well since none of you are saved Christ has not died for any of you

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Well, that might not necessarily be the case Right, right if you visit if you visit death row in a prison there may be some there who are either

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Already born again who were among God's elect or who will be? Using you as the means by which they hear the gospel.

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I mean they could have been the most perverse and satanic serial killer

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In fact, I think that there is very credible evidence that Jeffrey Dahmer came to Christ before departing this earth before he was murdered in prison and There is some

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Credibility to Ted Bundy, but I'm not so sure. It's as strong evidence as Jeffrey Dahmer, but but there are

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God's elect are not only amongst the most pious of pastors they are amongst the most perverse of prostitutes and killers and The thing that Transforms them is when they are called out from either their self -righteousness or their unrepentant wickedness and They are cleansed by the

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Holy Spirit and become transformed Beings they become new creations in Christ.

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So we always have to remember that Christ's elect are all over the place in places.

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We would never readily expect and isn't that a Isn't that fuel to your engine when you are out there and perhaps?

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Day after day after day after day, you might see absolutely no positive response From crowds when you are doing open -air preaching

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To know that God's elect are out there. And even if they don't Respond to the gospel call in your presence.

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You may be planting seeds They may get saved when they are home alone in their beds.

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They may get saved When they are lying in a hospital bed later on dying, you know because of the seeds you planted

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I Always figured you know exactly what the scripture says that God's word will not return void.

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It's not our business No You know the secret things of God in terms of how he converts and when but our job is to stand at our post and be

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And I'm not at all ashamed to say, you know, God doesn't didn't die. Jesus didn't die for goats

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He died for sheep his sheep. You're his voice Are you one of his sheep if you are one of her sheep? You got to turn away from Nick would you gonna be turning to the

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Shepherd? You're gonna be following the Shepherd? So, I mean that still is kind of reformed theology

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But it makes it sort of pretty easy for somebody to understand because now they're gonna have to stop Well, am

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I a sheep or am I a goat, you know? But yeah, I mean that's what I think voice up Ryan voice up myself and puts us in positions where even when there's adversity when the

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Cops are out. He said he's a father. I know your purposes can't be thwarted It's impossible and it's not up to me to try to figure out how to push this

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Kingdom forward your word is going to advance your kingdom in your own timing and just give me the strength and the

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And the willingness to be faithful and stand here for your glory You know, we were talking before about for whom

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Christ died and One of the most precious texts in the scriptures

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And the most widely known even amongst the lost is John 3 16

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That's something that's held up on placards at sporting events and just most people seem to know

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Something about John 3 16, although it was hilarious. I remember years ago when my late wife and I were furniture shopping and we bought a painting and At this furniture store and John 3 16

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Was at the was written on the bottom not not the actual text, but just John 3 16 was written

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By the artist at the bottom of the painting and I looked at that and I said for God so loved the world

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That he gave his only begotten Son that whoever Believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life and the salesman in the furniture shop said are you a theologian?

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How did you know? But but it's it's interesting that those outside of the reform camp think that that settles the issue on their side that means of course that Jesus died for every single human being that ever lived and ever will live but The text as I as I heard,

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I think it was John Riesinger who just went home to be with the Lord not long ago I think it was him that I first heard say that this text screams of limited atonement

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Because it says for God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten

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Son that whoever Believes on him shall not perish

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But have eternal life He is God has provided the atonement the redemption

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Perfectly for those that believe so therefore he could not have died for every single people every single person that ever lived

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Obviously misusing the word world there. I think anyway, I know that some reforms people do disagree on Exactly how to exegete this but I happen to believe that the word world there

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Refers to those from out of every tribe and tongue and people a nation just the way that that same author

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Referred to that concept in the book of Revelation you have it you to have any comments on that Yeah BB Warfield what it is you talked about that kind of love being

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Really the depravity of man is so bad and so evil that the kind of love that God demonstrates it's it's not a

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Quantitative love it's a qualitative love. So it's talking about the quality And like you said it is there's a very clear distinction there it's whoever believes that you mentioned it so even there again going back to the question that you asked as far as how we

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Preach how we preach this text or how we evangelize in light of our

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Theological convictions, I think it's right there the fact that that there is a condition that God's love is conditional and it's based upon those

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Who believe as opposed to just making it just kind of a universal kind of love, right?

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And by the way, brother wherever your mouth is right now Keep it there because you were drifting away while you were speaking before.

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I don't know if you were moving around but Okay, your last couple of words were heard perfectly and before that you started to sound like you were in a tin can when you

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Were backing away from okay Appreciate that, but you know, it is a follow -up to what

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Ryan said, you know It's interesting to me that John 3 16th known so well But no one seems to know

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John 3 17 or John 3 18 because if you did you'd understand that he was not the son of God Has not life but what the wrath of God abides on him

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So if that if that scripture were ever read in context, I mean goodness gracious there it is right there

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It doesn't God left everybody He's not supposed to believe and and you know And you and I know they only believe because God gives me the ability to believe to a generation

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So yeah, it's a limited tolerant text and it's it's it's in a context Amen.

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Well, we have to go to our first break right now If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

29:16

Chris Arnson at gmail .com chris A -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

29:23

Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence If you live outside the

29:29

USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter Don't go away.

29:34

We'll be right back with Ryan Denton and Scott Smith right after these messages with more on open -air preaching

29:41

I'm pastor Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor's study and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising

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Family right here on iron sharpens iron if you live on Long Island, or if you're visiting the metropolitan,

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Learn more about us at the Haven Li dot -com and join us this Sunday at 4 30 p .m

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33 Bayshore Road Deer Park, New York Chris Arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine

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My name is Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

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Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed

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Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

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.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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We're now back to our discussion with Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on a certain sound a

39:49

Primer on open -air preaching our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

39:55

If you have a question of your own and if you could Ryan and you can even follow up if you'd like Scott To remind our listeners why you

40:03

Titled this book on open -air preaching a certain sound which is a title that I as I said the last time

40:10

I really love that the title Yeah, Scott, why don't you go ahead and answer that Well, you know unless the trumpet plays with a certain sound how will we know we're being partial to that kind of the context at least the initial context of that verse and You know if you don't have a clear

40:33

Gospel message that exalts the saving office of Christ in other words if you believe in the in the minds of men that they can either a save themself or be somehow participate or See, you know make a decision or walk an aisle or just any syncretistic you know

40:50

Form then you you stripped Christ of his glory You've put man in the driver's seat and you're not blowing a certain thought blowing a

40:57

Bible sound that's for sure And so the certain sound that I felt and I know Ryan agreed

41:03

We wanted to make sure that we were saying that Christ is a great Savior He could save any sinner and our our response needs to be to call on him that's the sound we want to people to hear that he's mighty to save and he saves sinners and You know people's responses to come under his lordship and cry out to himself

41:22

Anything less than that is a muddled sound it's a it's a inaccurate sound people don't know if it's being called a battle

41:27

They don't have to be called to a festival. We don't know if they're being called to go stand out of the wind somewhere

41:32

So, you know, we just felt a good clear reformed Understanding leads to a good clear gospel presentation that puts

41:41

Christ on his throne and man Is humbled under the greatness of this

41:46

Christ and that that's the sound they need to hear Praise God and in Chris, you know, you mentioned the do's and don'ts

41:54

I would say The main do when it comes to open -air preaching is preach Christ you know preach that exalts

42:01

Christ so much of the Stuff out there that passes for open -air preaching. It's it's not a proclamation of Christ or the gospel.

42:09

It's it's Almost everything else except Christ so you can get a crowd and you get people to come and then and then you preach

42:16

Christ But that's that would be you know, kind of what Scott is saying. That's an uncertain sound. That's not I mean

42:22

That's not what we're called to do. And so First thing is, you know, first and foremost preach Christ Well going to going into some of the don'ts and do's in that in that order

42:36

Why don't you let our listeners know some of the things that if they themselves want to To participate in open -air preaching perhaps pastors are listening and they want to start to orchestrate

42:50

Open -air evangelism for faithful members of the church faithful men in the congregation who believe they have a call upon their life to go out into the public and to participate in open -air preaching

43:03

Give us first of all some of the things that they should totally void that they may not even be thinking of before Partaking in such an endeavor and Things that perhaps are routinely

43:18

Done by open -air preachers that are big no -no's if you will that are that are not a

43:28

Blessing to the proclamation of the gospel or an aid to it But a deficit or something that even eclipses the gospel message itself

43:39

Right. You wanna go first? Yeah, I think there's there's there's quite a few things that come to mind

43:46

You know, I would I would say first of all the the location is is probably the most important And I think it is different too if you're talking about If you're talking about a church doing it a church is going to want to find a place probably

43:59

Near where they are as far as their their location goes and so You know as far as open -air preaching goes you want to you want to find out where there is a lot of foot traffic where you can actually preach and People ideally would be in a situation where they're they're kind of loitering around there.

44:16

They're they're milling about That's one of the great things about a college campus. You have a lot of students with downtime and they're walking around But you know as far as as far as the church goes, you know, yeah, which is a great thing to do

44:30

That would be great if more churches got involved in open -air preaching but just finding the spot where where you can where you can go and actually preach and and also you'll

44:41

I think a lot of times what I what I noticed and and And I'll be interested to see what

44:48

Scott says. I'm sure you'd agree. But what I noticed is a lot of times churches can be

44:55

There's there's a procrastinating spirit as far as just trying to Really train guys to go in open -air preach, which is great

45:05

But what happens is sometimes the training takes so long that they don't actually ever

45:10

Go out and do it and I think I think when it comes to open -air preaching if you get a guy who's a mature

45:15

Christian He knows his Bible. He has a desire to go and preach I think the best thing in that situation is just to let them loose and go preach and it kind of learned in the in the fire and so Yeah, I think

45:29

I think that's that's the best way to do is just go and do it What now that's not to say you can just wing it but it is to say

45:35

I mean You can as far as preparing to open -air preach. You could you could do that your entire life and actually never go and do it

45:45

That is the hard thing. I think when it comes to open -air preaching is just going out and just doing it now you mentioned the location as the

45:53

People who sell real estate real estate say location location location What is commonly done wrong in regard to location because Could there not be a

46:09

Location chosen by a person or group that is going to do open -air preaching.

46:15

That is not only a bad Location because hardly anybody shows up there, but could there not be a very crowded area

46:23

That is still somewhat improper for that kind of venue for for open -air preaching

46:30

Because you're only going to be getting people upset

46:36

You're you're going to now you could be getting people upset wherever you preach. I understand that but you might be unnecessarily

46:45

Invoking anger from people in certain venues. I'll give you an example At a cemetery

46:53

Isn't that like in a very improper place and the only people that I know that do that unfortunately are those

46:59

Crazy cultists and the God hates fags group from Westboro Baptist Church There may be others that do it.

47:07

But are there any other places that would be inappropriate locations? for somebody to do open -air evangelism outside of a cemetery that that still

47:21

You know, it might might not be because of the number of people that are there but there might be another reason why it'd be inappropriate

47:27

Yeah, I can think of one real real quick on the top I had that would be if people are paying to sit at a restaurant and they're sitting outside So now they're a paying customer.

47:37

They're not there to hear preaching They're there to have a meal and now you take it upon yourself. You're gonna start preaching to them

47:42

Well, you're gonna get not only the customer upset. You're gonna get the owner upset He's gonna call the cops on you. So that's not just showing a little bit of common sense you're better off getting in a place where people can get away from you if they want to they don't have to keep more than You know ten seconds at a streetlight if they don't want to hear you but once you've come into a situation where you know

47:59

You got a paying customer and he wants to sit there a piece of talk to his wife and now he's got you blasting him

48:04

I mean that that to me would be common sense, but I've met guys that do it With no thought about how that really is just not even reasonable

48:11

Yeah, you've you've brought up an excellent point the ability for those hearing you to easily

48:18

Walk away and leave where they're not held prisoner not literally but Because of the fact that they've paid a lot of money to be sitting somewhere

48:28

And obviously you don't want to be interrupting something else is going on like an open -air theater or something You don't want to be interrupting

48:35

That another thing just popped into my head this very second that some have done that I do not agree with is

48:42

To intrude upon the worship services of those in other religions or perhaps even Other professing

48:48

Christians who happen to disagree with you theologically. I think that that's also Inappropriate to be there screaming perhaps even through the doors of a church

48:57

Or or a temple or a mosque or what have you? During a worship service.

49:03

What are your thoughts on that? Well, I mean I would agree

49:10

No, I agree also, yep Now that's not to say I'm sorry, you're not showing any charity

49:18

You're not showing any charity to anybody else do unto others as you'd have them do to you Do you really want the Muslims to come to the front of your church?

49:24

And you know, you know do their call to worship over a microphone So there's need to be just a little bit of common sense with a charity a little bit of Just understanding just the basics to human interaction and what it would charitable and you know

49:39

What's nice about a college campus you get in a free speech area people know it's a free speech area If they don't want to hear free speech, they could do a dodge

49:45

Once they came in the free speech area, they really can't complain because they've entered it. They can leave it But when you get in situations where the people can't move like I've preached on buses before the people can't move

49:56

And I've had people check but I what I see the objections man I'm only gonna speak for 30 seconds Would that be okay with you and usually if you if you tell them at the short time almost all of them will say sure

50:05

Yeah, 30 seconds is fine So, you know, they don't want to listen for 20 minutes But almost anyone will grant you 60 seconds if you're polite and you're smart

50:13

Adam to say is that okay with you do you mind? And even if they mind they don't mind that much So just a little bit of common sense goes a long way and in these sort of things and and also

50:25

You know, you want to make sure that where you're preaching is is public property right, that's

50:32

Might be common sense, but it does come up a lot You know some some of the best places ideally or hypothetically to preach with would our places that are private property

50:41

So when you go there, you know, you want to make sure that it's public property Right. That's a great point and to clarify something that I said about a

50:52

Church or temple or mosque or a building that is occupied by another religion

50:59

I don't want to go overboard and what I said either I was specifically talking about a worship service, but I know that my dear friend of many years.

51:08

Dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries Used to routinely go to major Mormon events and he would not be on the property

51:16

I don't believe but nearby where people were either coming or going

51:23

In other words, you wouldn't be able to hear him evangelizing from inside the building, but when people were

51:30

Milling around on the very outskirts of the property

51:36

They could hear the evangelism that dr. White was involved in towards Mormons and the only reason

51:43

I know that he just continued doing that is that he was surrounded by Morons professing to be

51:50

Christians who were maverick King James only Type folks who are screaming all kinds of horrible things to the

51:58

Mormons and burning effigies of Joseph Smith and mocking them with juvenile

52:05

You know ad hominem remarks rather than showing that they truly loved these

52:11

Mormons and Wanted them to discover the true Jesus Christ of the true scriptures, but so in that regard

52:20

Would you say that a Building or establishment or facility of a members of another religion would not be off space as long as you were

52:32

Abiding by the law and being respectful and not interrupting an actual worship service Yeah, just to me.

52:39

It just goes back to I mean, that's just prudent if you have you know as people who want to evangelize you want to go to where there are lost people and that that is

52:50

I think it in a sense goes without saying that Outside one of those places you'll have that particular group of unbelievers who will be gathered there and and I think too though, it's just But I've seen videos of what you're talking about with James Whiteout Salt Lake City and you know the thing that comes across my mind when you when you watch those guys preach and it's the same thing a lot of When you're watching a lot of these guys preach out there

53:16

It's it's pretty easy to tell whether or not the person is, you know Genuinely concerned about the person's salvation

53:25

Genuinely concerned about about preaching Christ with they were you know, when you watch those videos and you see the the shock and awe guys and the

53:35

Pelagians and sinless perfectionist if there's There's so little of Christ that's being preached and when it you know, not only that but whenever they are preaching.

53:45

There's a There's there's real there's there's no pleading in their soul or pleading in their tone or voices there's no there's no genuine concern for the loss and I think that that really does come across as Something that that you don't want to do when you're open air preaching

54:04

In fact the contrast of the different behaviors is even Reflected in the movie on planned.

54:11

I just saw that a couple of days ago about a top executive at Planned Parenthood who

54:19

Became pro -life and and resigned from her post there and they had they were honest enough in The movie to show people who are behaving like idiots outside the abortion clinic who are just purely

54:32

Nasty and had nothing to offer other than nastiness while there were other people pro -life people there that were being

54:40

Much demonstrating much more compassion and the love of Christ and so on But we have to go to a break right now.

54:48

It's our midway break and keep in mind This is the longer than normal break So be please be patient with us because grace life radio 90 .1

54:55

FM in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break in the middle because they localize iron sharpens iron radio to Lake City, Florida with their own commercials and public service announcements while we air our commercials that are heard globally

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They'll probably stick around and that means that we'll be able to stick around because we require their advertising dollars to exist

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So write down the information provided by our advertisers and also write down questions for our guests

55:36

Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on open -air preaching and Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

55:42

Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Don't go away We'll be right back after this station break with more of Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on open -air preaching

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:10:20

New Covenant Church, NYC Again their information can be found at www .ncc

01:10:27

Dot NYC. Have a great day Hi, I'm buzz

01:10:35

Taylor frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio I would like to introduce you to my good friends

01:10:41

Todd and Patty Jennings at CVB BS Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service?

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Todd and Patty specialized in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone

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Since 1987 the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

01:11:00

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Heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors their website is

01:11:28

CVBBS .com Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com

01:11:44

that's CVBBS .com Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio

01:11:51

I'm pastor Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor's study and I am so thankful to be part of the

01:12:00

Advertising family right here on iron sharpens iron if you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan

01:12:06

New York area I invite you to join us for worship at the haven on Sundays at 4 30 p .m

01:12:12

We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York the haven you'll find

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Li .com and join us this Sunday at 4 30 p .m. 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York And I would urge you folks since this

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Sunday April 7th is the inaugural worship service the very first worship service of The haven in Deer Park, Long Island I would urge you that even if you are already a member of a church and you live in the

01:12:52

New York tri -state area Especially on Long Island, New York that you take a trip out

01:12:58

On Sunday afternoon this Sunday April 7th at 4 30 p .m So that you could at least encourage

01:13:04

Bill Shishko on this new work You don't have to leave your church and join his

01:13:10

I'm not recommending that somebody do that unless they are in a bad church but I Would I would urge you to at least give some encouragement on this very first worship service that the haven is conducting this

01:13:22

Sunday April 7th at 4 30 p .m And please if you do that tell pastor Bill Shishko That you heard about the haven from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trip and Zion radio

01:13:32

And once again, their website is the haven Li which stands for a Long Island calm the haven

01:13:38

Li calm Before we return to our guests Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on our

01:13:46

Subject today, which is part two of a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching, which is a subject we began last month

01:13:55

I Want to just let you know about some upcoming special events that I hope that you attend

01:14:01

First of all in just a couple of weeks the conference known as Dort 400 is going to be taking place in Michigan and we thanks we thank the folks

01:14:12

Who organized this conference? Which is being held at the

01:14:18

Trinity Protestant Reformed Church in Hudsonville, Michigan, we thank them for the advertising they purchased to promote this event.

01:14:27

It's a three -day event on April 25th 26th and 27th. That's Thursday Friday and Saturday and It's commemorating the anniversary the 400th anniversary of the cannons of Dort if you want to find out more about the cannons of Dort I go to iron trip and Zion radio .com

01:14:46

and And click on past shows podcasts and if you type in the search engine

01:14:52

Cannons of Dort and that's spelt with one end by the way, let's see a n o n s of Dort which is d o r d t

01:15:01

You will hear past interviews that we've done on the cannons of Dort but I am looking forward to hearing about Many of you giving praise reports after having attended this conference and As I said, it's being held at the

01:15:18

Trinity Protestant Reformed Church in Hudsonville, Michigan, and if you want more details on this conference go to either

01:15:29

Trinity PRC org Trinity PRC, which stands for Protestant Reformed Church org or you could go to the main

01:15:38

Website for the conference, which is Dort 400 org D as in David or D as in David T as in Thomas 400 org and This will be well worth your while especially if you live in Michigan and it's easy to get to but otherwise if this is

01:15:58

Fascinating subject to you and it should be and you're free to take a plane train or automobile to get there to this conference this

01:16:06

April 25th through the 27th. That's Thursday Friday and Saturday just a couple of weeks away That's Dort 400 org

01:16:13

Dort 400 org then coming up after the Dort 400 conference

01:16:21

We have my iron trip as iron radio pastors lunch, and this is a free event

01:16:26

I've been conducting this event since the 1990s when my precious late wife

01:16:32

Julie had the brainchild of Using our

01:16:37

Christmas money rather than spending it on gifts for each other we began to treat my friends who are pastors to a

01:16:45

Christmas lunch every year and The size of the gathering grew and grew and grew until we finally needed

01:16:54

Financial assistance to take care of this we were originally taking it out of our own pocket and we got corporate sponsorship for it and Now it's grown to not only one lunch in a year, but to two we usually have one in the winter and one in the spring now and Obviously the location has changed.

01:17:10

I moved from New York to Pennsylvania To have these events. Dr. Tony Costa the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary Is once again our speaker at the free pastors luncheon

01:17:23

He's going to be speaking on how the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the

01:17:28

Holy Scriptures this is for men only and it's for pastors elders deacons and leaders of parachurch organizations and As I said, it's for men only and everything is free.

01:17:40

Not only the admission and the food But you're also going to be walking home. If you attend you're gonna be walking not walking home but you're gonna be going home with a heavy sack of Free brand -new books that I've personally selected from nearly every major Christian publisher in the

01:17:56

United States in the United Kingdom who have been donating free books to Us for this event every year for a very long time

01:18:03

So you're gonna be leaving with hundreds of dollars where the free books just because you've attended So you'd be getting a free meal a free message from dr.

01:18:12

Tony Costa free books free fun and fellowship what more could you ask for and There would be no ulterior motive there's no amway

01:18:24

Salesman presentation going to take place. This is purely for the edification and the fun and the relaxation and refreshment of pastors

01:18:32

Which was what my late wife Julie Designed this to be to be totally for the enrichment and the pleasure of the pastors and attendants

01:18:41

So if you would like to attend on Thursday May 23rd at the Carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall

01:18:48

Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and I'll put you on the registration list

01:18:54

Dr. Costa is also right from there right from Carlisle, Pennsylvania He's going to be heading out with me to Long Island, New York, and he's going to be preaching at several different churches including

01:19:06

New Hyde Park Baptist Church in Western Nassau County and Hope Reform Baptist Church in Central Suffolk County That's in Coram, Long Island And though it may be a couple of other churches and I'll give you updates on exactly where he'll be speaking on Long Island So if you want more information on that as well, send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:19:27

Then coming up in Later in May. In fact the very next week We have the

01:19:34

East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth That's going to be held

01:19:40

May 28th through the 30th and That's gonna be held at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania that's

01:19:50

Tuesday May 28th through Thursday May 30th and This is going to be a phenomenal event.

01:19:58

I'm sure Jeff Kingswood is going to be one of the speakers

01:20:03

He's also gonna be what my guest on iron sharpens iron radio on Tuesday the 23rd of April. You might want to mark that down We have

01:20:10

Terry Johnson Who is also going to be a guest in the and in the god -willing the near future on iron sharpens iron radio.

01:20:19

In fact Monday the 6th of May Terry will be on the program David Vaughn who's a reformed

01:20:25

Baptist missionary in France Stephen J Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:20:31

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries Michael Morales and Chad Vegas And Chad is also going to be a guest on iron sharpens iron radio on Monday the 8th of April that's this coming

01:20:45

Monday So if you would like to attend this conference the East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth on the theme

01:20:51

I believe in the Holy Spirit from May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania Go to banner of truth org banner of truth org click on events and then scroll down to East Coast ministers conference

01:21:03

There are other conferences in other parts of the United States and the United Kingdom that they also have listed there

01:21:09

So if you live closer to one of the other conferences click on one of those and find out more details on that But I hope to see many of you at the

01:21:17

East Coast ministers conference at Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania May 28 through the 30th.

01:21:22

That's the banner of truth East Coast ministers conference Go to banner of truth org banner of truth org and click on events

01:21:29

Then after that coming up in December the 19th and the 20th I will be god -willing attending the foundations conference in Manhattan a conference of sermon audio .com

01:21:42

speakers include the Include dr. Stephen J Lawson who you just heard earlier

01:21:48

Advertising New Covenant Church NYC in Manhattan one of our advertisers. Dr. Lawson is the founder of one passion ministries

01:21:55

And he's also a phenomenal preacher another really extraordinary preacher is Paul Washer.

01:22:01

He is on the roster Reverend Jeff Thomas another extraordinary preacher that I've heard a number of times

01:22:07

All going all the way back to the 1980s when I first got saved Reverend Jeff Thomas who's a retired pastor in Wales now an itinerant preacher traveling the globe spreading the gospel

01:22:19

Reverend Armand Tomassian who is one of my favorite preacher and he is an absolutely Extraordinary young man with gifts and Abilities and wisdom far beyond his youth

01:22:30

He's a young pastor, but I think in the next 10 years He's going to be globally known as a household name amongst reformed

01:22:37

Christians He is that powerful a preacher and then Richard Caldwell jr.

01:22:42

Is also on the roster and Andrew Quigley I have not yet heard either of those brothers, but I'm looking forward to hearing them at the foundations conference

01:22:50

December 19th and the 20th in Manhattan If you want to register do so quickly because they only can hold 200 people in this small venue in the heart of New York City so go to the foundations conference calm make sure you put the in there because you'll get a wrong website the foundations conference calm and You'll have all the information that you need to register

01:23:13

Please tell them that you heard about this event from Chris Arnz and an iron sharpens iron radio last but not least If you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves

01:23:22

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio dot -com click support then click click to donate now and donate instantly with a debit or credit card if you prefer a snail mail

01:23:30

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01:23:58

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01:24:07

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01:24:13

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01:24:20

So only donate to iron sharpens iron radio if you love the show and you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands of Scripture to provide for church and home and Please if you are not a member of a local

01:24:35

Bible believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one You're living in rebellion against God if you need help finding a good church send me an email to Chris Arnz and at gmail .com

01:24:43

and Put I need a church home or something similar in the subject line I have helped a number of people around the world find churches near them whether it's a church

01:24:53

They need to join to become a regular part of that local body or if they're going on vacation somewhere

01:24:59

Or if they have a loved one in some other part of the world I have found a number of churches for those kinds of folks

01:25:07

So and I can help you to send me an email to Chris Arnz and at gmail .com That's also the email address where you could send an email with a question for our guest today

01:25:16

Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on our Discussion on a primer on open -air preaching.

01:25:22

That's Chris Arnz and at gmail .com Chris Arnz and at gmail .com and we do have a listener

01:25:30

Let's see here. We have Robert in Westchester County, New York and Robert says do you not think that the manner with which

01:25:44

Open -air preaching is done Regard to the tone of voice and so on is very important I'm not saying that I think that open -air preachers shouldn't raise their voices in fact, they may need to if they don't have any kind of sound equipment in order to project their voices in the open air to The crowds that may be gathered there

01:26:05

But I'm talking about those that have nothing with the appearance of a hateful screamer with veins popping out of their necks and yelling at people as if they are scolding people not

01:26:20

Compassionately warning them that they need to repent and follow Christ to avoid The certain damnation to come for those who do not bow the knee to Christ I think that there is a difference between raising your voice and Including yourself as a sinner that was saved by grace through faith

01:26:40

Rather than scolding those walking by and focusing on their sins as if you are not a sinner yourself

01:26:49

Either one of you want to start with that Yeah Well, you know,

01:26:57

I think it goes back to kind of what we're saying There there needs You know, I should preface this by saying

01:27:04

You know, you can be a gentle respectful

01:27:11

Christ exalting preacher and and and still Be hated by the world and so a lot of times

01:27:20

I'm not saying that's that doesn't sound like the The the person who wrote that saying that in fact,

01:27:26

I think they make a lot of good points But I think sometimes that is some of the things that you see

01:27:32

So in other words, we look at how the the crowd or the people respond to the open -air preaching and sometimes

01:27:40

There's there's just an outright dismissal of open -air preaching because oh, you know The the people hearing didn't didn't like the message or they didn't respond well to the message that being said.

01:27:51

Yeah, I think It's it's I think it's very Almost it's natural to be able to tell whether or not somebody has a genuine concern or love for the person they're preaching to or not and and I Think that's one of the reasons why when it comes to open -air preaching the most important aspect of open -air preaching

01:28:12

I would say is having a sincere walk with the Lord just a

01:28:18

Sense in which you're you're you're regularly commuting with God Commuting with with the

01:28:23

Holy Spirit letting God tenderize your heart that you don't go out and preach in a calloused

01:28:29

Harsh manner and I think and I think it's hard for for all of us I know for myself included I you know, there are times when when

01:28:36

I'll catch myself and think wow, you know, I In a certain scenario. I was in the flesh here, but it is something

01:28:43

I think that every open -air preacher is You know the guys who are sincere about it and really try to do their best to exalt

01:28:50

Christ I think they are really trying Despite the mistakes that we all make there.

01:28:56

They are trying we are trying to You know sincerely go out with the love for Christ and a love for the people

01:29:04

We're preaching to and trying to let that kind of exude out of what we're saying. So it's a good question, though Yeah, and you know,

01:29:12

I mean obviously we are excited about Jesus Christ We're excited about what he's done to rescue people for himself

01:29:19

And so you it isn't just something that you want to speak in a milk toast, you know Just passionate way and somewhere in there you got to find that fine line and it may be based on your own abilities to use your you know, your

01:29:32

Your I'm not sure exactly you win box Maybe the right word of your diaphragm but to be able to preach in such a way that you can get it out loud enough

01:29:38

But it's clear you're not stressed. The veins aren't popping out of your head Your face is not lit that somebody doesn't walk by say wow

01:29:45

It's that guy angry and if you've got the kind of face the kind of physiognomy that just gets lit up You know when you lift your voice a little bit, you're gonna have to probably get on a microphone

01:29:54

But there are some guys who can preach I think George Woodville was one of them who could preach to 25 ,000 auditors

01:30:00

And I don't think he really looked like he was going to pop a vein So some of it is just kind of understated what you look like in the open air

01:30:06

There are some people before they just have kind of an angry look at face They may not be angry It may be sweet as pie, but they have an angry looking face and a lot of times

01:30:15

You know with a guy like that have to say hey, you're gonna have to really try hard to smile not be silly but Yeah, the people who look at you are gonna play off of what you're what you're giving them and if you're giving them a

01:30:27

Face that looks angry. They're gonna think you are angry and and so you at least have to say, you know folks I love you.

01:30:32

I care about you It's not about the price but for you that I that I say these things with compassion and people can relate to passion

01:30:39

I think Ryan's head on head on They know the difference between passion and anger and if you're angry you wanted to talk about the do's and the don'ts

01:30:47

I would say the first don't is don't go preach if you're angry because You know who we were sinners saved by grace.

01:30:53

We serve a great Savior We're thrilled to be on our way to heaven we don't have anything to be angry about we've got something to be excited about we're filled with joy and we've got a great message and So if you really haven't gotten past your own issues,

01:31:06

I don't think you should be out there You know just lambasting people and that may have been what your listener or what your caller has seen in the past Thank You Robert You have won a free copy of the book that we are addressing today a certain sound a primer on Open -air preaching thanks to the generosity of our friends at Reformation Heritage Books And also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm

01:31:31

We'll be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to iron sharpens iron radio

01:31:38

Let's see here. We have Someone who doesn't write in often

01:31:45

But I want to give this brother a public commendation for his generosity

01:31:52

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina doesn't write in often to iron sharpens iron radio

01:31:57

I don't believe I've ever met Grady, but Grady has been giving nearly every month if not

01:32:03

Every single month to iron sharpens iron radio, and I just wanted to thank you Grady I don't know if I've ever done that publicly on the air before but thank you so much for considering iron sharpens iron radio

01:32:15

Worthy of your donations. It means more than you will ever know, but Grady Asheboro, North Carolina says how do you deal with hecklers or Confrontational people without drawing away from the message

01:32:30

Yeah, sometimes that heckler is there because the

01:32:36

Lord's allowed him and you know One good heckler who asked some good questions can get a crowd

01:32:42

You know, it could grow your crowd from five to fifty to five hundred depending on how good a heckler they are And so sometimes, you know, it's worth pausing to let them do what it is

01:32:52

They came up to do you can't preach over them Anyway, depending on who it isn't so sometimes you have to look at the situation. You have to analyze

01:32:58

Is this a heckler God's allowed they're not swearing They're not you know Blasphemy God's name but you're screaming out about something and it's bringing people around and you're going to be able to answer them gently and And win favor with the crowd because you took this abuse from the heckler

01:33:13

So, you know, you you don't want to always look at a heckler as a bad thing most of the time it's a good thing The only thing is you can't let them go off an hour after all

01:33:24

You have to say no sir, that's a very good question I commend you would have put a sign of intelligence now Let me answer that question and then go right to the gospel

01:33:30

You know how that's how that solves exactly what it is. He brought up and so So, you know and you gain experience with this, you know at first a hacker can throw you off But over time you can figure out is this gonna be a rabbit trailer or does this guy have a sincere question?

01:33:45

Or is this just God allowing, you know, the crowd to grow if people want to see how the preachers gonna react So there's a little bit of wisdom that comes from being in the saddle years, but normally overall in general

01:33:56

I'd say hecklers are a good thing So you shouldn't release unleash the pitbull on the heckler then

01:34:10

Point though if you have a if you have a team of guys and you have one guy preaching and a heckler comes up One of the things you don't want to do is is try to get the heckler away from the preacher

01:34:22

In other words, let the let the guy who's preaching interact with the heckler. So Scott is saying that that can

01:34:28

Bring a situation where you're able to preach the gospel to more people and not not by insulting I'm assuming not by insulting the heckler like a stand -up comic might

01:34:40

The heckler will probably be insulting the preacher but it's more of a Situation where you can take what he's saying and and turn it into a gospel proclamation

01:34:52

By the way, Grady Something you don't want to get involved Grady. Thanks for The great question excellent question and we have your address so you are going to be getting a free copy of a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching published by our friends at Reformation Heritage Books and shipped out to you by our friends at CVBBS .com

01:35:13

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service we have another listener we have

01:35:20

Harrison and Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania and Harrison said you said earlier that you should be putting a smile on your face when you're doing an open -air preaching

01:35:29

But one thing that irritates me about Joel Osteen is that that smile never disappears from his face

01:35:36

I don't think that somebody could preach the whole counsel of God while having a smile

01:35:43

Permanently plastered on their face. I have actually said that exact same thing on the show that that's a good point

01:35:50

So I'm assuming I'm assuming you don't mean that No, no, let me respond to that.

01:35:56

I said if a guy has a grouchy Physiognomy by nature, there's some guy. Okay. I like all the time that often you'll have to say to that You know

01:36:05

Smile at the crowd everyone so long tell me care about it Because otherwise you look bad and you don't want to look angry at the crowd

01:36:11

But no, I I totally agree with the with the gist of what that listener has said which is what you you can you can smile and Show affection and say some very difficult things you can talk about hell and without being silly

01:36:26

If you can say that such way that they know you want them to respond to this message You have affection for that, but I'm not talking about some syrupy silly sweetness like, you know

01:36:35

Joel Wallstein does but some guys just have hard faces and They've got a they've got to think about softening it because people look at it and think the preachers angry when they see the hard face

01:36:45

You know, I have been told this might surprise some of our listeners because I laugh a lot even on this show sometimes to the great annoyance of Of People who said

01:36:57

I hurt their eardrums when I laugh on the show But I have been told that I have an angry looking face and I guess that's something that I need to work on I'm not talking about when

01:37:07

I'm evangelizing but even when I'm just sitting in a restaurant contemplating something Which is probably why for some strange reason little children are terrified of me.

01:37:16

I can't understand I can't understand why but I've been told that I have a If you have a face made for radio

01:37:23

Exactly And let's see here we have

01:37:29

I believe a first time Questioner on iron sharpens iron radios audience

01:37:39

Let's see here We have Tim from El Paso, Texas.

01:37:46

I think Tim is a first -time questioner and Tim says, how do you maintain your zeal in preaching?

01:37:58

well first of all, I mean Let me I'm sorry there the the email came in and cut part of Tim's question

01:38:07

Off. Okay. He says how do you maintain your zeal in preaching the gospel day after day?

01:38:13

That's the full question Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's a great question. I Think on the last show we were talking about how open -air preaching is a calling.

01:38:24

I Think to a certain extent that's part of the call just just to It's not to say that we always have zeal but I I don't

01:38:34

I don't know about Scott But it does seem like if there's a situation where you have a lot of people And and and you know, you have access to them to be able to preach

01:38:42

I I don't know about Scott. I'm sure he could say the same thing, but there is something that That makes me tingle and makes me want to just go and and and preach

01:38:53

And it's hard. It's hard whenever I don't go out personally and and knowing that there's a you know students especially or people

01:39:01

Wandering about and there's it's a beautiful day and you go and preach But I think it's just kind of like all of us as Christians, you know

01:39:08

How do you maintain zeal if you you're working day in and day out? You know, how do you

01:39:14

Maintain this this desire to share Christ with the loss that you encounter Like in a sense,

01:39:20

I'm sure it's the same thing. It's just a daily walk with with the Lord you know a sincere commitment to reading his word and being with him in prayer and hearing the word preached and being around other believers when you can and I think a lot of that just kind of carries over your love for Christ just kind of goes into that situation

01:39:38

Now I think for me also Some days, you know, you don't want to go out some days. You don't want to share the gospel and I think that's where it's it's it's mine, it's good to remember that it's it's

01:39:51

Commandment that Christ gives us that we are called to evangelize. We're called to to share the gospel Especially as open -air preachers, you know, it's it's a calling that God has given us and and And we need to be faithful in that even when we don't feel like it

01:40:06

And sometimes you have to take a little time away, you know Crawl off for a couple days in the woods at a tent and just get along with the

01:40:11

Lord or or recognize that you may need a little break But what I do is I will go for like a week or two and go to college campuses to preach every day

01:40:19

And then I'll take a week off and I will just spend time with my wife kind of just get in the words You know move myself out of that sort of frontline battle just to kind of recharge the rest of the

01:40:29

Lord And then I really get looking forward to you know, that next set of two weeks on campus So it's not like I go every single day, you know, never stop

01:40:38

Jesus did that he would take time away to pray and you know, get out on the boat take a nap in the boat

01:40:44

So the zeal is more in the moment After you've been in in prayer with the

01:40:50

Lord and waited on him and but it is worth and the zeal is his desire to Exalt him, but you know in our day -to -day life.

01:40:57

We also think distract us like everybody else You get it, you know your wife wants to talk to you. You gotta go fix the car It's not like every moment, you know, you just totally zealous to share the gospel

01:41:06

I mean, you know So for me, I have to set aside time where I just say no I'm there entirely to share the gospel and I'm not gonna let myself get distracted and that helps

01:41:16

Maintain the zeal when you know, you've set the season time apart for the Lord's glory period

01:41:22

By the way, Tim, I was wondering if out in the West Texas town of El Paso You fell in love with a

01:41:29

Mexican girl Just Well, you know, hey Chris, I'm in El Paso too.

01:41:35

And I I do know if you I know it's one Tim anyways over here Maybe it's the same one.

01:41:40

I don't know. It might be my tail. That's right. Yeah, maybe not though I mean, it's a big city So and if anybody is scratching their head wondering what on earth

01:41:48

I'm talking about that happens to be my favorite Marty Robbins song Out in the

01:41:54

West Texas town of El Paso, but Tim if you give us your full mailing address You will receive also a free copy of a certain sound a promer on open -air preaching and you'll also

01:42:06

Get a free New American Standard Bible because of the fact you're a first -time questioner so please get us your full mailing address and We have to go to our final break right now

01:42:16

And if anybody else wants to send in a question do it quickly because we're rapidly running out of time

01:42:21

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com C H R I s a r n z e n at gmail .com

01:42:30

And as always, please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country a resident residence

01:42:36

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:42:41

Don't go away We'll be right back after these messages I'm pastor

01:42:47

Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor's study and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising

01:42:53

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Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence of God three years ago.

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I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans

01:43:45

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding. What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away the situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this

01:43:55

Need it came to me I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is $73 per month per child if just 50 of us would give $35 a month we could meet the need

01:44:09

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans and this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?

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To 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

01:44:23

Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

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BBC laurel .com Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC laurel .com

01:44:40

Thank you Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am

01:44:45

I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man,

01:44:52

I would not be a servant of Christ Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

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Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

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Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

01:45:11

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

01:45:17

Apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth

01:45:31

And love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

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You can call us at 508 -528 -5750 That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

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TV program Entitled resting in grace. You can find us at Providence Baptist Church Ma .org

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that's Providence Baptist Church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio

01:46:10

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

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Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

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God bless you I'm Pastor Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas And I'm thrilled to have joined the

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01:54:44

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen And this is the last segment of our interview today with Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on open -air preaching

01:54:52

And we have an anonymous listener and our anonymous listener says I have a brother in Christ that goes out and street preaches

01:55:02

Sometimes by himself and sometimes with other brothers. What advice can you give him that he should focus on?

01:55:09

When he is by himself Thank you, Chris greatly blessed to be listening to you

01:55:17

Scott or Ryan well Well, I think well Right I would

01:55:25

I would suggest Having some kind of recording device That's gotten me out of a few jams that got us out of a jam last week

01:55:34

Even though we had a lot of people there. I think in the day and age we live in I know for me now

01:55:40

I know a lot of guys that don't go up with with any kind of recording device, but for me, I I Always take mine out and and a lot of times

01:55:49

I preach alone So I would say that You know,

01:55:54

Jesus said about two by two. So I think I would fall on the side of you know Encouraging to always have a partner with you

01:56:01

Even if their job is simply to stand there pray for you smile at you occasionally And you know film in case there is trouble but but you know, some guys don't have anybody in like Ryan He does go up by himself and I have gone up on myself.

01:56:13

I don't like it I probably wouldn't recommend it but it is what it is and And at that point you just have to trust that the

01:56:19

Lord has your back But in general, I think it's good to go with with a partner for especially in the world We live in where people will lie just lie about you and don't have someone filming it.

01:56:29

You're really almost a sitting duck Well, thank you anonymous if you give me your full name and mailing address off the air, of course

01:56:38

We will send you a free copy of the book that we have been addressing today A certain sound a primer on open -air preaching.

01:56:45

Thank you so much for contributing to our conversation And by the way, Tim in El Paso, Texas Confirmed that he did fall in love with a

01:56:53

Mexican girl Thank you for letting us know that Tim Well, I want yeah,

01:57:02

I want you to to have two minutes now to just summarize What you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about this topic

01:57:09

I guess Ryan will start with you for a minute and then we'll conclude with Scott for a minute I Just think for me the the most important thing is even with the book itself and especially open -air preaching is just the importance of a correct theology

01:57:23

I think reformed open -air preaching is really the only kind of preaching that that should be done.

01:57:29

I think any other kind of preaching leads to really false conversions and Man -centered gimmicks pragmatism things that have really been detrimental to the church over the last

01:57:43

Guess 200 years over 200 years now Ever since these things first came on the scene.

01:57:49

So just the importance of having a robust reformed theology For open -air preaching and evangelism in general.

01:57:55

I would say that's definitely the most important thing and Scott Well, I would agree. I would agree with Ryan and so instead of Seconding that I'll just say, you know

01:58:04

There is an internal call and an external call and if you think you have the internal call to preach That's a very personal call from the

01:58:10

Lord But you know others will be able to see it There should be some confirmation either by the church or it might not be by the church

01:58:17

But it could be and hopefully would be but certainly other preachers I mean like what Ryan started a number of years ago

01:58:23

I immediately knew he was called to do it And so most of the experienced guys in the country immediately saw her too

01:58:28

And so, you know the dangerous to be a renegade the dangerous to be a nomad the dangerous to try to go

01:58:33

It's all on your own and saying the Lord's called you But if he's called you others will recognize the gift too We don't need people that aren't stable and there are some that get out there that are not stable

01:58:43

So that that would be my one caveat in addition to obviously the theological implication for the guy that is stable

01:58:50

Well, I have had such a great time interviewing both of you two times now I look forward to interviewing you many more times in the future as many times as God will allow

01:59:00

I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information. First of all Christ in the wild ministries

01:59:06

Can be found at Christ in the wild calm Christ in the wild calm

01:59:12

The publishers of the book that we have been addressing a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching

01:59:18

That can be found at heritage books org heritage books org and put into the the search engine a

01:59:27

Certain sound and you'll find that I would urge you also to please order the book through Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service since they are a sponsor of our show and that is

01:59:37

CV bbs .com CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm want to thank everybody who listened

01:59:44

I want to thank my guests for being on the program with me today And I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater