Witnessing to Mormons Part 6: The Gospel

2nd Timothy 2 15 be diligent to present yourself approved to God a worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth

Alpha and Omega Ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast the Apostle Peter commanded all

Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence your host is dr.

James White director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church if you'd like to talk with dr.

White you can call now by dialing 508 0 960 that's 508 0 960 and now with today's topic here's

James White and good afternoon Phoenix this is Rich Pierce sitting in for James White today dr.

White is once again down in Tucson teaching for Golden Gate Seminary and boy

I tell you I I don't envy those students down there they've got them set up on a crash course in theology and apologetics with dr.

White because he is teaching all morning up into the afternoon and even did some teaching last night so it is a very intensive study these folks are going through as far as that telephone number goes actually it is different since the station frequencies have switched around here the temporary line as I understand it right now and that's why

I haven't changed that intro is 602 955 3594 is the number you can call me today again as we talked three weeks ago

I'm going to pick up where we left off and be talking about witnessing to Mormons yes that seems to be the the one issue for me but hey

I've been doing it for a long time and I've got it down pretty well and I'm more than happy to answer your questions

I'm witnessing to Mormons today the theme that I started off with a few weeks ago really was along the lines of some of the discussion some of the oh some of the subjects that had been thrown around a few weeks ago on the radio having to do with Mormons in our area and I pointed out that last time

I had heard Maricopa County was the fourth largest concentration of Mormons per capita in the world you know if you're gonna live in Maricopa County folks you're going to run into Mormons and you're gonna need to know how to deal with them you're gonna need to know a little bit more than just slamming the door in the face of that young Mormon missionary as he comes door to door it really is not a good

Christian witness to do that in point of fact we have had situations where in talking with Mormon missionaries in our home and in other people's homes you know you talk with them for a little while and they kind of get this look on their face and you kind of go you know what's going on you know they they go you know you're the first person that's ever actually explained to me what the differences between what you guys believe and what we believe is and that's an important thing to know how how many

Mormon missionaries I mean we we kind of sit back in this country and we kind of think everybody's heard the gospel is that a safe assumption to make is that something that we can sit back and say you know what these more missionaries they've heard the gospel

Mormons have heard the gospel and they've rejected it and they've chosen to believe that they can become gods they've they've chosen to believe that God was once a man lived on another planet they've chosen to believe all these things in contrast to what they have heard from the

Christians well the fact of the matter is is that the vast majority of them have never heard the gospel and they don't know what the gospel is and it is according to the

Great Commission incumbent on who it's incumbent on us to present them with the truth and one of the things we need to do as Christians in this country is we need to be able to present to them the truth through the fact that we know what the authentic item is we know what the real issue is we know we have an idea as Hank Hanegraaff likes to say know the real thing so well that when the counterfeit presents itself it's easy to spot okay and that's one thing

I think we find ourselves not prepared when the Mormon missionary comes knocking on the door and usually it is a scenario

I'll have to admit that it's one of the most inconvenient times you can possibly think of when they do come knocking as well as when

Joe Jehovah's Witnesses go I think Jehovah's Witnesses actually have it nailed down to actually be more inconvenient than the

Mormon missionaries do but that aside you know you can't it can't hurt to say you know what now is not a good time how about because I really wasn't expecting you but how about you come back next

Saturday and set a time when you're prepared to sit down with them and talk with them now once you've set that time what are you going to do then well as I had proposed in the last go round of this issue

I pointed out that we need to keep our eye on the prize and when we get into issues like polygamy we get into issues like white salamanders

Mark Hoffman Solomon Spaulding thesis all these other things and there are some peripheral issues that may have to be introduced in the conversation just because you absolutely have to I'll give you an example of that Joseph Smith the

Mormon wants to insist that Joseph Smith is a true prophet and that is something that some

Mormons just won't let you get around and if I have to go into an examination of more of Joseph Smith in order to get them to see the gospel clearly and I have to expose

Joseph Smith then I'll do that then I'll go into that but ultimately I'm not going to introduce my subject

I'm not going to introduce myself if you will and my belief system by just slamming on Joseph Smith I want to focus on what the gospel is and like last week we went through the verses of the hundred verse memorization system we've covered those through we covered those on the person of God and we went through who

God is and what the Bible has to say and again the hundred verse memorization if you didn't get a chance to listen to last week's or the previous show three weeks ago is what we consider it

Alpha Omega Ministries to be if you will our top one hundred verses list it's the top one hundred verses for witnessing to Mormons and guess where you can find them that's right on the internet we consider it public domain folks you can download it you can print it out and you can study it one hundred verses with commentary from Dr.

White on how to use these verses in conversation in witnessing to Mormons now again

I want to reiterate last last to go around it was until like the last ten minutes of the show when the phone started lighting up folks

I want some interaction today I want to discuss the verses I want to discuss situations that you may have had with a

Mormon missionary or a Mormon family member coming to your home or talking with you at work or or whatever

I want to discuss these situations and if you've had situations to where they kind of stumped you

I want to be able to help you out today and that's what we're going to focus on for those of you who have the internet internet access

I want to lead you into our website www .aomin

.org now the thing you need to keep in mind here is I do recognize it may take you a little bit to get there

I have dial -up networking or dial -up connections myself and so I know that it takes a few minutes to get to the web page dial -up and hook in but if you can hook into the website and if you hooked into the website last time around you noticed that or you will notice this time around that the page looks very different I've been working this week and I have totally reconstructed our main page and some of the sub pages

I will be getting to the many of them beyond that but I've been cutting out some of the unnecessary redundancies and duplicate pages etc that were unnecessary and so today if you go to look on the left hand side of the column there and the main page you're going to see where it says apologetics and underneath that you'll see

Mormonism that's a hyperlink you see several different subjects there but if you go to Mormonism and click on that it's going to take you to a page that has several different topics of which you can look over folks

I gotta tell you our website is in is such a tremendous resource for so many

I'll I get the phones during the week and I get folks calling me up just telling me over and over and over how much time they have spent on our website and how incredibly helpful it has been and that's the thing you need to keep in mind is that it is there to be a help for you it is there to be of assistance so that you can go and you can study these things online you can print them out you can have them available to you and you can have them available when you need to when you're witnessing to someone and so if you'll go about two -thirds the way down that page that you're on on the

Mormon under apologetics in the Mormonism section you will see 100 verses for witnessing to Mormons click on that and we have already covered what after I printed it out amounted to the first 10 pages talking about who

God is covered differences between Yahweh and hello Elohim we've covered the definition of God that there is only one true

God in all of existence that's a big difference between that our beliefs and Mormonism we've covered the authority of God's Word Proverbs 30 verse in five and six etc and we've covered at the last part of the show

God's nature and finished up with and I want to reiterate this verse is

I don't know if I had much time to really camp out on this last time but Second Chronicles 618 speaking of God and his nature it says but will

God in will God in very deed well with men on earth behold heaven in the heaven of heavens cannot contain the how much less this house which

I have built and the key to understanding that passage is that this is Solomon dedicating the temple and he's built this temple it's taking him taking him a great deal of time and effort in Israel to get this wonderful temple built it's huge it's gigantic it's got gold inlays and all kinds of things in there and it would be very easy for the people remember these are the people that stood there in front of the golden calf and Moses up on the mountain ok

Moses up on the mountain and they're sitting back on you know what Aaron we need a God to worship so build us a golden calf ok these are the people that kind of had a tendency to want to have something tangible to worship they needed to have an image ok and Solomon is sending a message to them he's sending a message to them about the kind of God in which they worship in Israel ok and he says again that the heaven and the heaven of heavens can't contain

God how much less this huge gigantic temple which he is built how can how can that contain him

Solomon recognized that the temple can't possibly contain the limitless endless

God of the universe the one who created all that is and so that's an important thing to know and if that doesn't give you an idea of the kind of verses that we're going to be looking at today as we begin to focus on who

Jesus Christ is in contrast to the Mormon Jesus ok then that's that's a great example of what we're going to look at and there's some good stuff here from the

Bible that you can sink your teeth into folks and have it's effective let me tell you something we're going to be going up to Salt Lake City on October 2nd what is

October 2nd what's the big deal it is the General Conference of the Mormon Church twice a year the

Mormon Church in Salt Lake City has had basically this big meeting ever since their inception and they have it in Salt Lake City at the

Mormon temple there about I guess about 30 ,000 people show up to this thing and we get those numbers from the security guards we know the security guards up there very well why do we know the security guards that's kind of weird well we know the security guards because we have been doing this since I believe 1984 for twice a year we show up on the

Saturday of the General Conference and we stand outside the gates of the temple we're dressed nicely appropriately for the occasion and we pass out tracks we smile say hi how are you today we're pleasant we're polite and we will pass out our tracks and talk to people will smile and basically the idea is we were there to witness to them were there to share the good news of the gospel with them and these verses have been tried in that environment they've been tried out in Mesa at the

Easter pageant of the Mormon Church that they hold which is a very big draw and they have had a great deal of success with this event but then again we've been standing on the corners as these folks come in and we pass out our tracks and we let people know that the

Mormon gospel is a false gospel I'm going to say it right out the Mormon Jesus is a false

Jesus and when it comes to looking at Colossians chapter 1 verses 15 and following we're going to see some remarkable differences between the

God of the Bible or the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Mormonism now again

I want to reiterate give me a call 602 -955 -3594 602 -955 -3594 and for the sake of discussion

I want to call on the Alpha and Omega guys out there the folks that have assisted us over the years give us a call let's talk about on the air share with folks what it's been like for you being out on the front lines witnessing to Mormons and let's talk about some of those verses and how your experience has been in in doing that anyway

Colossians 1 chapter chapter 1 verses 15 through 17 it says of Jesus Christ actually let's back up here and if my program will let me do that here

I'm going to get over here to I'm using Bible works for those of you who are interested and display verse 14

I've got verse 14 through 20 up here now in whom this is speaking of Jesus Christ in whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins who is the image of the invisible

God the firstborn of every creature for by him were all things created that are in heaven that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by him and for him and he is and those are those are the primary actually through 17 and he is before all things and by him all things consist and he is the head of the body the church etc and it continues on the most important part of this section of verses is that it addresses a vital topic in Mormon teaching

Jesus according to Mormons is the spirit brother of Lucifer that's right he's a spirit brother

Lucifer this amazing teaching is based on the idea that since Jesus is God the father's literal offspring in this case both spiritually and physically as is

Lucifer they must be spirit brothers this blasphemy is based on the numerous other errors such as polytheism which we have already addressed in the show at any rate it is quite useful as well as important to be able to demolish this falsehood biblically and these verses provide the framework in which to do it now by utilizing

Colossians in the above passage you'll force the Mormon to see the scriptural position concerning Christ over and against their limited ideas the

LDS Church now does not teach that Jesus created all things while at the same time denying that yes

I know it doesn't make sense but see the Mormon limits the Bible's authority spatially in other words the

Bible is true as long as it rests on planet Earth it is only for this world you got to understand that it's only for this world hence when the

Bible says all things the Mormon automatically thinks of only those things related to this world they can't understand that it means all things they must alter the scriptures at this point in their thinking the

Christian must point out this illogical thinking and that's not easy folks Mormons don't have a concept of the true eternal almighty omnipotent

God of the Bible that Christians do the Bible clearly states that Jesus created all things and there are no exceptions now this may surprise you but some

Mormons may actually ask you the question well who created God did Jesus create

God see that's the argument I mean think about it a second we we set out we step back to the origin of the individual that Mormons call

Elohim that is who the Mormons identify that's the term by which they identify the father

God the father they believe he existed pre -existed on another planet in mortal form that he was actually a man once in fact

Orson Pratt actually taught once that he was a sinner at the time and then he was redeemed from that planet and came over here and procreated and started a new new planet so it's important for us to recognize that if Jesus Christ created all things powers principalities that he is before all things the thrones dominions all things in heaven and in earth were created by him and for him and by him all things consist well does that mean that Jesus created

God did he did he create the planet that God the father lived on before hmm doesn't make sense no it doesn't at all the point is is that God is eternal so again like in last show we talked about Psalm ninety verse two before the mountains were formed or ever thou has formed the earth and the world's even from everlasting to everlasting thou art

God and we're going to continue this discussion of Colossians chapter one right after this break well

I guess I just set the board up over the edge there with that break because I'm sitting here cruising along in Colossians chapter one and I thought gosh it sure is awful early and I look over and I see 228 on the clock sitting next to me and I go oh my gosh it's time for a break right now well hey the phone lines are starting to light up so maybe that was the trick to do it apparently

I was about ten minutes early on that break so I guess I I really shocked the heck out of the the board up in there anyway getting back into Colossians chapter one let's see here the important thing here to understand as we're looking at these verses is that Jesus Christ a is the in image the expressed image of the invisible

God and according to my Bible works here the term image means image figure or likeness an image of all things the heavenly things or etc it goes on and on and on to Christ an account of his divine nature and absolute moral excellence he is the exact likeness of the invisible

God and that's important to understand but that he is the creator of all things and that's something that Mormons don't their

Jesus their version of Jesus doesn't click like that at all their version of Jesus didn't create he organized he helped organize this planet okay in fact it wasn't even

Elohim so if you're gonna look at the father if you're gonna try to even try to co -relate

Mormon thought to what the Bible has to say Elohim didn't actually create this planet he sent

Michael and Jehovah who it identifies that Mormons identify as the

Sun down to organize it so I guess in an indirect way he did create it but that's that's a bit problematic there so continuing on we're gonna take

Jennifer in Phoenix how you doing today Jennifer if you thought when she's running down there or walking down with it hello

Jennifer hi how are you I don't know what that was my question for you is if Jesus is

God how do you explain him to be the firstborn of every creature and that's a very good question that is something that Mormons will throw out and it really has to do with how the term firstborn is used here and it's really important to understand that now let me ask you a question how familiar are you with your

Old Testament have you had a chance to really understand the use of the term firstborn in the

Old Testament I'm not really okay I'm swinging over here okay the

Greek term is prototic us okay it doesn't necessarily in its usage in regards to Jesus Christ refer to actually an offspring okay the thing about the it's important for us to understand about the term firstborn is and I'm looking through the notes here on the

Internet to see if we've got a comment there because we should I'm not finding it here at the moment but it means preeminence the firstborn in Israel someone who was the firstborn had the number one he had double honor he was the representative of the family he was the one that everything was going to get passed to in the family and so he had a double honor he had a double inheritance okay he had what was called preeminence in all things and the big thing in the use of this term that we need to understand is is that when we talk about nature and being okay when in the

Bible when I'm my father's son I'm the same as my father you understand that okay well in other words my father would have a certain status in the community okay

I would have that same respect when I became a man okay they would treat me the same as my father if they had respect for my father they would have respect for me because all things that are my father would be passed on to me see the point is in using the term firstborn okay he is and it goes back in the in previous previously to that it says who is the image of the invisible

God that's the first thing we have to understand there the firstborn of every creature okay he preexisted every creature but he was not an offspring okay he is in relation to the father that as a son but he is not a begotten as in his nature and relation to the father as he is in his deity but at the same time he is begotten as the man

Jesus Christ okay this is a this has been a Bible difficulty in fact you might find on our website

I believe we have a paper on it and I'll spell it out here for you the

Greek term is prototokos p -r -o -t -o -k -o -s had to put that together there but it's all the different meanings of what prototokos can mean in its usage in the

New and in the Old Testament is very important and in this particular term it's used metaphorically to describe the relationship of the father son to the father and the son as he is called the son of man okay

I hope that is clear that's not an easy one Jennifer let me put you on hold a second

I'd like the guys off air to to talk to you and I guess it is time as I look at the clock up here the other clock time to go ahead and take a break so let's go ahead and do that now

Jim theology what a concept I always wanted to say that on the air you know theology is

I find cool okay I dig into theology I find it fascinating I love sitting under the teaching of dr.

white and I've worked with him as president of the Alpha Omega ministries for years and I just love digging into the

Word of God unfortunately as so many in our culture I find myself convicted deeply by the fact that I don't get into it nearly as often as I should

I'm looking at John chapter 1 turn with me to John chapter 1 focusing on verse 3 now it's important for us to understand the context of this lest it become a pretext to try to argue our personal points

John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was

God the same was in the beginning with God all things were made by him and without him not anything was not anything made that was made in him was life and the life was the light of men and the light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not there was a man sent from God and goes on about John the

Baptist the focal point there is speaking of Jesus Christ and of course if you doubt if you're one of those folks that doubt that this is talking about Jesus Christ well we'll go down to verse 18 a second and verse 18 says that no man has seen

God at any time the only begotten Son which is the in the I'm sorry I meant verse 14 and the

Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten of the

Father full of grace and truth now Jennifer asked that question about the term firstborn we've got more there in verse 14 about the as of the only begotten of the

Father okay it is not saying that as in relation to the

Father that the Son is a procreated and that's something we've got to emphasize not procreated he is he says if you've seen me you've seen the

Father okay it says there that we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten

Father okay full of grace and truth and so the point is is that when you look looked upon Jesus Christ you were looking at God and that's that's a very important distinction to make okay going on all things were made back on verse three all things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made now

I think that's pretty thorough you put that together with Colossians chapter one which will will reiterate again that he's the image of the invisible

God the firstborn of every creature by him all things were created that are in heaven that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers now

I'm going to take a right turn here actually a left turn over to Deuteronomy chapter 4

Deuteronomy chapter 4 verse 39 is the one that I want to look at here and I'm finding it here

Deuteronomy 4 verse 39 says no therefore today and take it to your heart that the

Lord remember what we said last time around about Lord when you see it in all caps like that you know the ORD or little smaller but it's still capital letters who's that identifying that's

Jehovah or Yahweh okay Jehovah is the German pronunciation of it okay the

Lord he is God in heaven above and on the earth below there is no other there's no other okay and so when you see

Jesus Christ saying that or John saying about Jesus Christ verse three that all things were made by him and without him not anything was made okay and in Colossians heaven above okay by him that are everything was created that are in heaven and that are in earth clearly the

John is claiming Jesus Christ is the one true

God of Israel that there's no other Paul in Colossians is claiming that Jesus Christ is the one true

God who created the heavens themselves and the earth below it is very very clear and you've got to camp out on these verses and reiterate their context to the

Mormon to help them to understand what is being said and what is not being said okay let's go ahead and move on we're going to go down to the section on salvation the big three that we call it when it comes to differentiating what is a false religion or a non -christian cult to use what is a very broad term we use the big three and that is who who is

God what their what their vision of God is what their theology of God is what their theology of Jesus Christ is and what their doctrine of salvation is and is it consistent with Scripture or have they reinvented it those are the big central doctrines of the faith if you have a false

God you are not a Christian if you have a false Christ you are not a Christian okay and if you have a false doctrine of salvation

I believe the Apostle Paul makes it very clear in the book of Galatians you are not a Christian okay moving on to the topic of salvation we're gonna look at first Corinthians verses 15 verses 1 3 through 5 1st

Corinthians 15 1 3 through 5 and you may notice I am reading from the King James the

New American Standard works just fine in these situations and I can turn over to that as well over there but oftentimes in as I said in the last show talking to Mormons it's important to present to them the gospel from the

King James if not you you may find yourself having to explain where we got the Bible and how we got the

Bible and that's not a problem if you're able to do that a lot of folks don't really have a good solid foundation there and so if you want to avoid those kind of topics coming up use the

King James they use it themselves and supposedly find it trustworthy although they find themselves arguing with many verses such as these okay 1st

Corinthians verse 5th or chapter 15 moreover moreover brethren I declare unto you the gospel which

I preached unto you for I delivered unto you first of all that which

I also received that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures and that he was seen of Cephas then of the twelve well this verse needs a little bit of an introduction okay when the subject of the gospel comes up the

Christian needs to point out that the gospel of Mormonism is not the gospel of the Bible the gospel of Mormonism is not the gospel of the

Bible another question -and -answer situation it might be helpful in that regard for instance do you know where the classic definition of the gospel is found in the

Bible I can't honestly ever remember getting the proper answer from a Mormon but if you did

I wouldn't let it bother you chances are that the Mormon has spoken to either Wally taupe or some of our volunteers at any rate you then continue no matter what the response it can be found in 1st

Corinthians chapter 15 where Paul says and when you quote the above passage after having done so you might continue see the gospel is the story of the person and work of Jesus Christ it is the message of his death burial and resurrection now let me ask you a question did you hear any laws and ordinances in the gospel you see

Mormons believe that the gospel contains ordinances and principles it's from their third article of faith the answer of course is no now the

Mormon will immediately jump into some work salvation proof text which you will probably have to properly exegete for them probably

James 2 chapter 20 or James chapter 2 verse 20 but before you let them in direct the conversation in that direction reiterate one thing the fact that Paul preached a gospel and that centered on the person and work of Jesus Christ not the person and works of the sinful man it is incumbent incumbent on you to make sure that the

Mormon sees the difference now let's continue on 1st

Corinthians 14 17 and 17 and 18 now this is this is key why is this important it's talking about baptism and what's so important that you understand that Mormonism talks about that we must be baptized we must be baptized at the hands of somebody who had the authority to baptize and you know there became a great big deal in the church early on about oh

I was baptized by Christus I was baptized by Gaius well think about this a second in this passage

Paul says I thank God that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius for Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel not with wisdom of words lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto the us who are saved it is the power of God so where's our salvation at where's our salvation again why the phones are so quiet on this issue

I find during the week that they light up like crazy the Mormon Church is a major factor in our area and in our time and we need to be discussing this now maybe everybody's just sitting back

I did get some feedback off the last show that folks were just sitting there taking notes and digging in and looking along with me and I appreciate that but six oh two nine five five three five nine four six oh two nine five five three five nine four

I'd love to talk with you today and let's see here I want to just do one more paragraph here and then we're going to take a break now understand something about this passage is talking about the baptism it's it's a good quick rejoinder to the

Mormon contention that baptism is part of the gospel now if you look at verse 17 it makes a clear distinction between baptizing and preaching the gospel baptism is not part of the gospel it is separate from it if baptism was part of the gospel why did

Paul say it 18 is for your edification if you do this long enough and experience the truthfulness of the passage for yourself you will have you will not yet have the well someone well

I'm sorry I'm sitting here getting off track the point is is that baptism the verse clearly separates the true the two it is not part of the gospel okay we're gonna go ahead and take a break now and we'll be right back we're back rich peers sitting in for dr.

white today having a problem that I don't normally have and that's being tongue -tied

I don't normally do that I am one of those folks who loves to talk and so that's not normally a problem

I have but for some reason I've been tripping over my tongue today anyway let's go to the phone lines and bring up melody today how are you today melody and how

I hope you're enjoying the show today you had a question yes I have a friend who was raised

Mormon although she doesn't she's not really part of it now for which she's feeling incredible guilt and she was talking about the

Book of Mormon as being she says a lot of people think that it's a different Bible but it's not it's it's the

Bible from the other continent and I don't know what she's talking about the other continent well

I guess your basic question is what is the Book of Mormon right well let me give you a basic review on that first of all the

Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon and in his claim he claimed that this was actually an account of a peoples that lived in Israel starting out in Israel around as I recall 600

BC and it goes up to accounting the following of these people through about 420

AD now the thing to keep in mind is that there was what's called the migration in this migration was these people for whatever reason were picked on a lot by the people of Israel and so they decided they were going to take off and and and get out of there and so God led them over to the

Americas now here's what's key to understanding the importance of the

Book of Mormon according to the Mormon Church when Jesus you know when he got up on the

Mount of Olives and he ascended where did you think he went up do you think he went to the father yeah yeah well the

Mormons the Mormons dispute that he went over to the

Americas and there were peoples in the Americas in which were of the same lineage of the

Israelites and he came over and preached the gospel to those people and so you have the account of these people along through that whole process and that's basically what what is going on then there was a big war after all that and the what they call the peoples of the

Lamanites and the Nephites battled it out and the

Lamanites killed off the good the bad Lamanites killed off the good Nephites and that's kind of a very cursory look at the book but it's its biggest value is along the lines of that it is another account of the other people the

Americas and that's what she means when she says the other continent okay and unfortunately

I don't believe that Joseph Smith got this off of golden plates that he says he dug up on a hill in upstate

New York that he called a Camorra and this is the place where at the end of the battle they were buried supposedly these were the the the the scriptures of those people and they buried them there and through divine revelation

Joseph Smith was led to find them and then through divine revelation Joseph Smith was led to translate them out of reformed

Egyptian hieroglyphics do you know what those are reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics right

I would have no idea what well nobody else does either because they don't exist okay there are

Egyptian hieroglyphics but and how in the world these folks that came from Israel lined up writing their scriptures in reformed

Egyptian hieroglyphics I have no idea but that's he says that he used what was called the

Urim and the Thummim something that he gets a term from the Old Testament which were two stones that were attached to the breastplate of the high priest and it just goes on and on and on but that's basically how the

Book of Mormon came about ultimately what is the Book of Mormon what is the purpose of the Book of Mormon do

I believe the purpose of the Book of Mormon is a bridge the point is is that you are here and I'm pointing at my

Bible I got my Bible here and you are in and standing on the Bible and you see what they want to do is they want to take you into the

Book of Mormon which has all kinds of terminology that just sounds just like the Bible so it must be a companion to the

Bible right and they claim that it's God's Word to just like the Bible is and it's it's monotheistic by the way it doesn't teach a plurality of gods

Joseph Smith when he wrote the Book of Mormon in 18 and had it published in 1830 didn't believe in a plurality of gods according to the

Book of Mormon they didn't necessarily have a problem with that in fact if you will the best example that we could give what the

Book of Mormon how God or how Joseph Smith depicted God in the Book of Mormon would be like oneness

Pentecostalism modalism so God shows himself in different modes one day he's

Jesus in the next day he's the father in the next days the Holy Spirit but that's kind of how his very basic understanding of God is depicted in the

Book of Mormon but it's a bridge and that bridge is to get you out of the Bible and not trust the

Bible and start trusting the Mormon Church and take you into Mormon doctrine where the real stuff is very little of Mormon doctrine today is actually taught in the

Book of Mormon that's the irony that's what's so strange about how much emphasis they place about on the

Book of Mormon but their public relations department as in the last couple of years has kind of wised up and they've been doing these commercials on the

Book of Mormon all these years hey you can get a free copy of the Book of Mormon I did I got one I just never read it did it come attached to two two gentlemen in white shirts and no yeah

I was surprised it really was just the book and they never bothered or wrote me ever again hmm that's interesting but they didn't personally they didn't personally deliver it to you no just came in the mail oh that's interesting

I wanted to see what you know what it said but I never I never actually read it yeah well you know something it is it is it's good to be able to say that you read the

Book of Mormon this has to do with respect okay if you can say to the

Mormon you know what I've studied you I've studied your faith I know what it is you believe and I know why you believe it and then in conversation you can bear that out you can show that no

I do know what your church teaches and I'm actually exact representing it properly okay that has a great deal of weight if I were to say to you that you know what let's just say for discussion

I'm an agnostic and I don't believe the Bible and you're a Christian and I just think the Bible is a lot of bunk you may look at me and go well why do you think that well

I think the Bible is a lot of bunk because it just is well have you ever read it no no have you ever gone to a

Christian church and heard a pastor preach no no no I'm not interested not interested I just think it's a bunch of bunk it's a bunch of theory and and a bunch of myth okay how much respect are you gonna have for me none none you see the point is is that I have dismissed your faith without ever finding out what your faith is right and so it's important to be able to have a position when you're talking with a

Mormon to be able to say look you know what I have studied and do understand what it is that you believe and I respect you enough and I want to share with you enough

I want you to see the truth and I need to be able to contrast the gospel the true gospel over against what you actually believe but then how did it because she also said that they would bring their

Bibles and the Book of Mormon together mm -hmm and you know kind of like we bring our

Bible to church and pastor says okay read chapter you know and and they would look it up and I want to know how how do they put those two books together

I mean to do the Book of Mormon happened supposed to like the timeline how can they fit together how can both things have happened mm -hmm is the

Book of Mormon supposed to be event that took place after you know degree side -by -side you've got the accounts of one continent and the accounts of the other continent happening in some cases simultaneously okay so in other words you know yeah this is what's going on over on this side of the world and this is what's going on at this side of the world all at the same time it's not the same thing it's just you know these are a quote -unquote an account of God's people over in the

Americas and and what occurred with them and so you know why would I don't know how many times

I've heard the masses why would God ignore the rest of the world you know why would Jesus just come to one country wouldn't he you know shouldn't the gospel be spread out to these other worlds well guess what according to the

Bible that's our job you know Jesus came to the people of God the

Israelites okay and he came and he ministered to them and was rejected by them and that's important to understand so you know as far as how they handle verses if you've talked with her at all you get a quick idea of how they handle their verses from the

Bible and everything is very much skewed in the direction of it's it's got a backup

Mormon doctrine and if it doesn't back up Mormon doctrine then I either must be understanding it wrong or it must be wrong

I don't know how many times I've I've had a Mormon say to me well that isn't translated correctly Colossians chapter 1 we're talking about that Colossians chapter 1 they don't believe is translated correctly it's wrong

John chapter 1 verse 3 that's that's wrong it's just mistranslated well have you ever learned

Greek do you have Greek so Greek so anyway thanks for calling today

Melody has been enjoyable talking to you I hope I've answered your question thank you for the information okie dokie bye bye and we have been talking about the

Mormon Church today and I hope I've been able to make it clear folks once again up on the up on the website www .aomin

.org www .aomin .org and I've enjoyed sitting in for Dr.

White today and hope to probably be back in the next couple of weeks to do another show so take care we'll see you next week on the dividing line the dividing line is a presentation of Alpha and Omega ministries you can contact us at 602 -973 -0318 or you can write us at P .O.

Box 37106 Phoenix Arizona 85069 we are easy to find on the world wide web at www .aomin

.org that's www .aomin .org you can also find a complete listing of James White's books tapes debates and tracks on our website join us again next