March 18, 2019 Show with Brian Kachelmeier on “Reading Isaiah with Luther” (Part 2)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions And now here's your host chris arnzen

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Good afternoon, cumberland county, pennsylvania lake city florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth

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Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy monday on this 18th day of march 2019 and today we are going to be conducting part two

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Of an interview that we began two weeks ago on monday. I'm, sorry on tuesday march 5th with reverend brian ketchelmeyer

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Who received his bachelor of arts and religious studies from the university of new mexico? And his master of divinity degree from concordia theological seminary

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He's the first pastor of redeemer evangelical lutheran church in los alamos, new mexico a lecturer on the global broadcast redeemer theological academy

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Frequent guest on issues etc and old testament teacher for the wittenberg academy

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And as I said, we are addressing part two Of reading isaiah with luther and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor.

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Brian ketchelmeyer Ah, it's great to be here chris, and I want to give our listeners our email address right away if they have questions

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For pastor brian ketchelmeyer on reading isaiah with luther. Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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C h r i s a r n z e n at gmail .com Please give us at least your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence

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If you live outside the usa, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter well, we already have addressed, uh, a lot of other issues including your own personal background and including some of the differences that lutherans have with calvinists and other evangelical protestants, but today let's try to Uh discuss the heart of the matter reading isaiah with luther and The the uh, the subject that is really throughout this book is luther and the conscience uh now if you could, uh tell us about what you mean by The human conscience, obviously, this is something that most people are familiar with this concept

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Uh, we all even remember From pinocchio we have jiminy cricket telling us.

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I'll always let your conscience be your guide and that first and foremost must be thrown out as something unbiblical unbiblical because not everybody

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Has a conscience that is trained by the scriptures And is guided by the holy spirit.

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We have a lot of people following their consciences that are Lost and devoid of the holy spirit that should not be following their consciences

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But if you could but what exactly do you mean by the conscience and why was it an important issue with luther and isaiah?

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Yeah, this is great. I think we really need to bring back this whole conversation and the topic of the conscience into conservative christianity

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That we're using this language in the pulpits. We're using this language in bible study, uh in homes

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That we're talking about what's a conscience? Well, the conscience of course is a gift from god. So the conscience comes from god

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It's a good thing Uh, the conscience itself is going to lead us as an instrument to help us to follow

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Uh the correct way of living which would be in line with the natural law

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And everybody's going to have a conscience right every single human being we all share this as being a human being and by nature

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When we are born we we have this this moral compass if you will

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But by nature because we are fallen we are corrupted by nature that that moral compass is easily

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Distorted it already starts off a kind of a leaning in the way that's going to be away from god

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And that natural law is always written on the heart. So all humanity does have this natural law

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But as you you grow up in the culture that you're surrounded upon By the the household that you're brought up in all of these things they affect the conscience

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They they kind of they feed the conscience is the language that we're going to use And the problem that you have is you can feed the conscience the wrong thing

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That the conscience can be fed junk food and it becomes completely utterly broken

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And the morality that you're now following it's not the morality that comes from god, but it's the way of the world

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And that's why that whole pinocchio thing is a joke, uh when you say always let your conscience be your guide

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Well, the conscience can be an error Uh, and that conscience would lead you in doing the wrong thing

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So the the idea of a conscience is it's going to alert you it's going to alert you to what is right and wrong

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Originally set with the the natural law from romans one Would that be like a a core area of the scripture of what you are speaking of which you are speaking?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that is this whole understanding from romans one exactly exactly but because of the fallen nature though Uh, we we have this tendency to follow after these false ideas the morality of the world

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Which it corrupts this conscience to to be led astray and not to be right with god's

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Law with god's will and the only way it can be reset is by god's word

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So it's the word of god that comes in and it it syncs with the conscience to make it right once again

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But if you reject god's word if you resist the work of the holy spirit That that conscience cannot be uh, synced back and linked and connected to god's will

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Now, uh, why is isaiah such an important figure from the old testament?

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Why is he so? Was he so important to luther and why is he so important?

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Within christendom and why should he be so important with every christian that is alive today?

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Yeah, the the old testament is of course teaching us about christ So we we can't have this this false idea that christ doesn't show up into the new until the new testament

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The old testament itself gives to us the promises The the prophecies of the coming christ you go all the way back to genesis chapter three

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That the seed of the woman is going to crush the serpent's head And that's that that promise that's given to adam and eve as soon as they fall into sin

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In the book of isaiah, it's basically expanding upon that one that one promise that this seed of the woman

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We're being taught right from the beginning that the virgin shall conceive and bear a son Well, this is what isaiah will say in chapter 7 of his book that uh, this this behold the virgin

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And she's the one that we're setting our eyes on because she's the one that's going to have this son

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And this son is emmanuel who is god with us He's the one who will come to restore

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Creation. He's the one who's going to come and renew this fallen creation Because originally we're created in the image and likeness of god

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We we fall into sin and then we are conceived and born in the image and likeness of adam

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Who is a rebel who rebels against god's word rejects the word of god resists the work of the holy spirit

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So isaiah is taking that passage that promised the messiah all the way back in the beginning

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And he's bringing this to the people Because what what you'll see in the old testament is when when moses writes these five books the first five books

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Genesis exodus leviticus numbers. Deuteronomy the torah Moses is giving to us the revealed knowledge of salvation

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God reveals to us the way of salvation which which is in christ alone by grace alone received through faith alone

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But as moses gives the people the written scriptures of the torah They will constantly be led astray.

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You'll get uh new preachers who will come in and you got itchy ears They start to teach you something different and the people are led astray and away from god's word

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But that written word the written word always gives us the certainty that we're hearing god's voice

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And it's not the voice of a man. It's not the corrupted Imagination from a corrupted heart, but always taking us back and taking us with god's word

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Well throughout those days after moses the people were led astray left and right just like in our day

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You constantly have these these preachers who are basically just preaching themselves You have these prosperity preachers that are talking about the the ways of having happiness in this world or whatever it may be

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But the prophets were constantly sent by god to bring the people back to the written word of moses

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Now isaiah becomes kind of the the epitome of all the prophets You've got 66 chapters in isaiah and in those 66 chapters

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We're taking the people of god back to the promises of the messiah. The people have been led astray

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They're falling into false worship idolatry and we'll talk more about that because that's directly related to the conscience

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And so isaiah is sent by god to reset the consciences of the people

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They've been led astray by their own religious leaders But when you reset that conscience you reset the conscience to god's law

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And god is now the judge but as soon as god is the judge He judges you of your sin and you have a guilty conscience, but isaiah doesn't leave you there

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Isaiah's primary purpose in his whole book We see that in isaiah chapter 7 and of course in isaiah chapter 53

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Is to set our eyes on the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world that the conscience then can be comforted

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Then the guilt can be removed because of the atoning sacrifice of christ on the cross

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So isaiah is kind of the the the epitome of all of the old testament prophets

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Really isaiah is the the gospel of the old testament If you will you have matthew mark luke and john in the the new testament

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But you have the the gospel according to saint isaiah in his 66 chapters that end on this

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New heavens and the new earth in chapters 65 and 66 So it tells everything about the the kingdom of god and how the kingdom of god comes through the personal work of christ praise god and uh

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Why is luther Of course you you being a lutheran minister would uh think that luther luther is a safe guide

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Although not an infallible and inerrant guide But a safe guide into the scriptures and specifically why is luther?

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Uh a safe guide into helping us understand isaiah and what he has to say And now again recall with luther we talked about this a little bit in our last uh interview here

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That luther of course begins the monk. He's a priest He becomes a a teacher a doctor of theology at the university of wittenberg

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And that's where he's teaching and he begins lecturing on the psalms that he's lecturing on romans.

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He's lecturing on galatians He is a teacher of the bible And so when he's looking at paul in specifically in romans and galatians and emphasizing justification through faith alone

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Luther is also one who is intrigued with the old testament and seeing that this is it's not a different book or a a book

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That's in opposition to what paul is saying It is the continuation of the prophets and the apostles all saying the same thing

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We've always had this understanding of justification through faith alone that he luther sees in isaiah the preacher

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The one who is going to be preaching christ the one who is going to bring comfort to these troubled and terrified

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Consciences by proclaiming the person and work of jesus the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world

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Now understand also that when luther is a professor of the bible at wittenberg

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Really his students the whole purpose of taking these courses at the university is to become preachers

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So these are going to be future Pastors, these are ones who are going to be proclaiming the good news

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And luther sees isaiah as kind of the the epitome of what the preacher is to be

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The one who constantly is going up against even the religious institution of his own day

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Who has gone astray and so luther sees a lot of himself of what's going on there with isaiah

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That isaiah is confronting the the religious leaders who who are teaching a a different word than the word of god

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They're teaching a a different way to be justified A different way to give comfort to consciences.

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It's a false comfort. It's it's the way of the world It's idolatry

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And so luther will see him himself there with isaiah and in particular with the conscience

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Uh luther is looking at his own conscience and then he's looking at the conscience of isaiah

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Which we'll see in uh, isaiah chapter 6 where isaiah stands before the holy holy holy trinity

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And isaiah is pricked in his own conscience. He's terrified because of his own sin.

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Oh is me I'm a man of unclean lips. I'm undone Or he'll also see that king ahaz has a terrified conscience and he goes to isaiah the preacher

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To hear the word of god, but of course ahaz doesn't want to hear the word of god So he's not comforted by the words of isaiah, uh, which lead up to chapter 7 and luther will also see hezekiah as a king also who is going to uh,

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Lead the people back into a reformation Going back to the words of isaiah the prophet where the previous king ahaz doesn't want everything to do

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With uh with isaiah the word of god king hezekiah does And so hezekiah when he's troubled in the conscience when the rabbi shaka comes to to take the city of jerusalem

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And the rabbi shaka claims that god has sent him to destroy jerusalem Hezekiah is troubled in his conscience and he goes to the preacher

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Which is isaiah to have a word from god that would give him this relief in his in a afflicted conscience

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So luther will see kind of his own world here where you have preachers and you have kings

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Kings who are supposed to be making sure that the word of god is Freely being taught and proclaimed in their own lands that you have kings who are interested in what's taking place

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In the churches in the pulpits of what's being taught and so luther sees this in his own life

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Uh with his own prince, uh the all his own Circumstances now he's going to form and mold these men

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That are going to go into this pastoral ministry into this office of preaching and so isaiah becomes just a very important book in that formation

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And so he's doing this these lectures in 1527 to try to proclaim to his own students

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How they are to proclaim Jesus to their own people later on in life

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Okay. Well, what do you mean by the cultural cultivation of the conscience in the first chapter of your book?

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Yeah, and so when we get to this first chapter again The idea of the conscience is everybody's going to have a conscience.

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Uh, your conscience can be seared It can be completely an error Uh, you can not listen to your conscience or you could even say the conscience is my guide like, uh,

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Pinocchio and jiminy cricket and especially because of sin People like to hear what they like to do

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And when they hear the voices around them telling them that sin is good if it feels good

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Do it if you like it god likes it. Uh, this is the the voice of the world uh, this is the

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Cultivation of the culture the culture is always trying to teach us what the culture thinks is right and wrong

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And this is where we get into trouble with morality Because these more of the society they change they up and they flow

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One time we we think that uh, it is good that a man should marry a woman

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And they should have children and then even in our own society We've seen how things have changed ever since this whole sexual revolution that now no longer is this seen as good

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In the sight of the eyes of our society and the culture is trying to tell us that no

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No, listen to us. If it feels good do it if you like it, then it's pleasing to god

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And that's the culture Cultivating the conscience is always distorting Uh Misshaping that conscience to to go in the way of the world

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But that is always going to lead us away from god now when the conscience and this is interesting

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I think that in our culture when you have uh, this this whole movement this this gay and lesbian movement that that is trying to just Force us into a submission that we must now agree with them this kind of very oppressive

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Movement that's taking place in our society I think that it's interesting that their voices get louder and louder and louder

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And why are their voices getting louder and louder and louder because they're trying to silence their own consciences

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Their own consciences know that this is wrong because it's it's wrong With natural law even apart from being in a bible study with god's word in our heart of hearts

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We know that this is wrong and so they're trying to speak louder than our consciences or even this whole push for abortion

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Which comes right out of this whole sexual revolution that you just you have sex with with anyone at any time anywhere

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And there's no consequences. There's no birth There's no conception that life is now bad

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And so this whole culture of death that we have is is speaking louder and louder that if you are pro -life

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Then you're the one who is morally wrong And so that's how that that culture is trying to distort the conscience and trying to sync it and link it with what?

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Sinful humanity says instead of what god says. Yes, and it's interesting that uh in our lifetime yours and mine we both

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Very readily remember Which because it wasn't that long ago Where the battle cry of the left used to be

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You cannot impose your morality on mankind You are a puritanical totalitarian

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Dictatorship that must have their uh power diminished so that people can have freedom to live and think

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And act as they see fit not as some Elitist group of puritanical bible thumpers who are basically neanderthals and morons

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Thinking in an archaic way That is no longer really the battle cry.

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Although some of their rhetoric contains some of those elements. It's today it is We have the true morality and you must follow our principles of morality and their morality includes

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It is loving compassionate And accepting to not only permit men to marry men and women to marry women but to celebrate with them and in fact to be

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Moral, you must celebrate with them. You can't just tolerate them and it is the loving and compassion and moral thing to give a woman

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The right to decide in the privacy of her doctor's office Or in her minister's office what she does with a baby that is growing inside her womb whether or not she gives birth to it or Let has it ripped to pieces in an abortion mill or whether she lets it die in a shoe box from uh dehydration and malnutrition

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After it is accidentally quote quote been born alive during an abortion attempt. Uh, so it is not just that we cannot uh push or demand that mankind accept and bow to our

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Biblical morality they have their own idea of morality that they are trying to enforce as law

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And I think this is where these passages from isaiah These lectures from luther really they teach us the more things change the more they stay the same

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I mean, there's nothing new under the sun. Uh, we know this from god's wisdom You look at like isaiah chapter 3

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And he he cries out and he says the look on their faces bears witness against them because they proclaim their sin

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Like sodom they do not hide it and woe to them for they have brought evil on themselves

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But did this this whole language of sodom this whole language of parading around in pride saying that hey

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Look what i'm doing is right. Look what i'm doing is good And if you don't accept it, you're the one who's immoral

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You're the one who is not loving and kind but they're going around parading in this pride

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Or you'll see in isaiah chapter 5 woe to those who call evil Good and good evil who put darkness for light and light for darkness who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter

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Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And shrewd in their own sight

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And this is what I mean by this culture is cultivating the conscience because the culture is encouraging us to say

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Well, the rest of us are doing it. It might it's not just that it might be good it to well

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Try it and yeah, actually it is good and everybody's on the same page and they think they're wise they're wise in their own side

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Uh in their own eyes and chris what I want to also explain to you here

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Is that that whole movement this sexual revolution this uh, this whole gay and lesbian agenda this whole

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Abortion promotion of murdering these infants in the womb and the life is now not good

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This is coming from the church. I mean you get this. It's not just The society it's these these mainline

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Liberal protestants who were up in their pulpits and they're telling their people that all of this is in line with god's will

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And that's exactly what was happening in isaiah's day. In fact, we can't just isolate this to mainline protestants

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Let's not forget pope francis Oh fair enough, I mean, yeah, you you get it and and that's where this pendulum is switching

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Uh, and now you're seeing this more and more prominent in the the so -called a conservative

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Evangelical Non -denominationalism Where you get these polls from gallup that are coming out and these people that they think that all of this is okay

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And you're getting people from the pulpits who traditionally would have been considered a conservative christian

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Are are are bending the knee on this Uh that they're going in this direction of the world because it's it's for the sake of quote unquote, you know missions or or Reaching out to the lost or whatever it may be trying to be welcome and relevant to all people and I think

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I have a strong feeling you you will agree with me that we who are christians in the body of christ who love worshiping our lord and regularly attend the corporate gathering of the saints to To not only worship god but to partake in the ordinances and or sacraments as you choose to call them uh, and we have to be careful that we are not entirely and exclusively looking at at this as an us versus them situation where we are

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Morally pure we are without uh, the the negative effects of of this cultural uh

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Deforming of the conscience. It's it's those in the liberal main lines and in the liberal catholic church and liberal

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Folks who are not religious or at least they claim to be not religious But everybody is religious in one way or another even the atheists uh because In the 21st century we we don't even realize the many ways that our own consciences have been seared

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Uh because of even what we are constantly ingesting from the media and things surrounding us uh things that Would have made christians blush

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Less than a century ago are now mainstay in the recreation and entertainment of of christians

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Uh things that would have perhaps even gotten you excommunicated Uh less than 100 years ago

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Are now being promoted by even conservative evangelical pastors from pulpits and that kind of thing.

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Would you agree with me? Exactly And that's why we've got to see this is what was happening in isaiah's day

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I I mean so isaiah is there as a prophet he's going back to the clear word of god He's taking us back to the written scriptures of the torah the five books of moses

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He's taking us back to the written words between the days of moses and isaiah himself He's taking us back to that sure word that that word itself is going to alone

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Form our conscience with god's will but as you'll see isaiah preaching and he's going to preach some heavy doses of law here

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You know woe to them woe to them But this is where that that harsh law it is it's going to expose sin

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And it's even going to expose sin in the prophet himself. So the the word of god is efficacious.

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It does things it actually works It works repentance the holy spirit wants to work in us

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And when isaiah gets to that point in isaiah chapter six where he goes before the presence of god

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He sees the holy lord sitting upon the throne all of a sudden He knows he too is one of these people.

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Uh, he's a sinner too. So yeah, we've got to make it really clear It's not an us against them that we're not the centers and they are we are all centers

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We're all centers. The difference is either you are a repentant Believing center or you are an unrepentant unbelieving center

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Those are the two options if it's one or the other And so we want to hear the word of god because that's where the holy spirit is working in the heart

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That's where the holy spirit is sinking the conscience with god's will but then it doesn't leave us there

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That that's where the holy spirit wants to bring this comfort of christ to put the image of jesus on our heart the one who's

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Been crucified for us shed his blood to atone for our sin Amen, and we have to go to our first station break right now

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If you would like to join us with a question for pastor brian ketchel meyer Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

28:42

C -h -r -i -s A -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com as always At least please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence

28:52

If you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and I could understand if we are talking about the conscience that there might be some people who have

29:03

Things that are troubling their consciences that they don't want to make public By identifying themselves, so I understand if you want to remain anonymous for something personal and private like that But if it's a general question on theology and understanding this subject, please

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Give us at least your first name city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. God willing We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Sponsorship in order to survive. We are now back with pastor brian ketchelmeyer Of redeemer evangelical lutheran church in los alamos, new mexico, which is a congregation within the lutheran church missouri synod

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We are discussing his book reading isaiah with luther a publication of concordia publishing house

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And we thank the folks at concordia publishing house for always Helping us out with the donations of free books to give away when we are interviewing

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One of their authors our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com Chris ar n z e n gmail .com

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if you'd like to submit a question for pastor brian ketchelmeyer on The subject at hand today reading isaiah with luther and To get a more specific idea of we where we are heading as we had said in the first half hour of the program

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We're talking about the importance of God's use of the human conscience and the life of a believer and we do have a listener in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania Susan Margaret who has a question for you pastor

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Brian and Susan Margaret asks, how do we maintain a balance when it comes to our consciences?

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Where on the one hand we have our brothers and sisters who are extremely right -wing fundamentalists

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Who at times are no better than the Roman Catholic Church in binding upon the consciences of Christians things that are not even biblical

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I'm talking about specific Rules regulations and laws that are not a part of the

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God -breathed canon, but out of the imaginations and preferences of Ministers and others belonging to that extreme fundamentalist group

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How do we partake in things that God gives us liberty to partake in?

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without having a troubled conscience without Also violating biblical principles by going to the other extreme of licentiousness

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Yeah, I think that again in Isaiah's day what we would call this is idolatry And I know that people tend to think that idolatry is statue worship, but we want to be extremely clear

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It's not statue worship in and of itself As Luther will preach and teach over and over again

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Nobody actually thought the statue was a deity. The statue was always the

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Representation of the deity the statue was always the the place where you had access to the deity where you would gather to obtain some kind of Interaction with the deity and prayers or whatever it is, but the idea of idolatry itself is it's a man -made method of holiness and this is without God's Word This is that legalism that I think that the listeners referring to on the one extreme

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You get the legalism on the one extreme which would either be a man -made rules and regulations

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Like under the Church of Rome that Luther was dealing with in his day or even in an extreme

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Fundamentalist congregation in our day where you come up with these these ideas that that this is the form of piety that Everybody must follow now piety itself is not bad

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Pietism is bad, and I want to make a distinction in see if it's the same distinction you would make but the piety is

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When you are walking in newness of life according to God's Word and you are are

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Growing in your understanding of what God's will is you're praying that his will would be done You are confessing your sins.

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You're looking to Christ for forgiveness of sins That's piety and it comes from the

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Word of God that we are to walk in newness of life But pietism on the other hand is that when

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I have my own individual form of piety and I demand that you keep it

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Chris or the guy next door or the gal down the street or whoever it may be and I say that because You are that person or the other person doesn't keep my form of personal piety my own choice

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Then you're the center. That's the pietism, right? Immediately what comes to mind in my own life is

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That I am a former drunkard and I abstain from any Consumption of alcohol.

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I think it would be foolish of me to even tempt the Lord in the way that he has transformed my life by Dabbling in alcohol consumption, but at the same time

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I have to be very careful not to judge my brothers and sisters who can responsibly and moderately

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Have a drink or two that contains alcohol in it I have to be very careful now

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I mean I realize that I can also point out when I think of brother or sister is violating a biblical command against drunkenness

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Which is a damning sin, but I have to be also careful not to go overboard and just say that no one should have any alcohol at all in their lives because It's a it's a deadly and dangerous problem and since I succumbed to This in a big way as a drunkard.

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Nobody else should have it either Right, right And I think that we can see this distinction between piety and pietism

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Pietism is when you are forcing your form of personal piety upon another. I mean like like as Lutherans right now

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We're in the season of Lent And so we have this historic tie to the liturgy of the ancient church and that the liturgical calendar that we are leading up to the time of Easter So we are contemplating the passion of the

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Christ in these 40 days of Lent Well, traditionally there's a concept that you can give something up for Lent.

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Okay, so out of your own Personal piety if you decide to give something up for Lent like for instance using alcohol

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You could say I choose to give up alcohol for Lent or caffeine or chocolate or whatever It may be

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I choose to fast because all those are forms of fasting But that form of fasting is your personal choice, and that's fine

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But as soon as you now demand that everybody else do it the same way you do it or they're unrepentant sinners

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That's when you step into pietism That's what phariseeism is all about the the scribes and the

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Pharisees when Jesus is Interacting with the Pharisees the issues of the Pharisees are hypocrites

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And I think that with hypocrite from the Greek Hippocrino we need to understand the hippo is to put under and creedo is to judge and what the

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Pharisees are doing is hypocrites Not in the American concept that they say one thing and does do another but instead the

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Pharisees do exactly what they say But they demand that you do Also what they say and that's what makes them this hypocrite because now they're putting you under judgment

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And so you'll see these interactions with the Pharisees and Jesus when when Jesus walks into the room

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They're watching Jesus to see what he's going to do so that somehow They can catch him and they can say look

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He's not a pious person because that's not what I would have done And that's the problem with legalism these man -made methods of holiness this pietism this fair say go hard But at core every one of us because of the corrupted sinful nature is a little

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Pharisee See to want to be a Pharisee and demand everybody do it the way that I chose to do it, right?

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And just so you know as a former Roman Catholic who is now a reformed Baptist. I gave up Lent for Lent, but But but I have

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I have learned not to be overly judgmental about my even evangelical

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Protestant brothers and sisters who Maintain things like Lent and so on I may have disagreements over those things but I think we all have to be very cautious about being overly a condemnatory critical judgmental about things like that that are a part of tradition of our church and remember

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For you Hardcore Calvinist friends of mine who think or even fundamentalists for that matter who think that?

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All tradition is wrong Well, you're wrong because you have traditions even if you don't recognize them when it becomes wrong is when you are mandating a tradition

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That is unbiblical would I be right on that in your opinion pastor Brian? Yeah, that's the same direction

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And I'm calling this pietism This ism is when you demand that everybody does the same way you do

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I mean, I use the term liturgy. We have an order of service, but any worship service in Reformed Baptist Methodist Presbyterian, whatever it may be there's going to be an order of service

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Yes, and that is just it's orderly because God is a God of order And so that's the idea of putting things into order but then when

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I demand that you as Calvinist must do it the way that I as a Lutheran do it now

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This is where we we start to get into that that realm of pietism This is our piety how we've chosen to put things into order in a service

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And this of course we have that historical tie to the liturgy of the ancient church But Luther of course reforms the mass he tweaked it so that all glory and honor was given to Jesus as Alone the one mediator between man and God and then the true comfort would be given to the individual

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Because of the person and work of Christ. He is the atoning sacrifice that forgives sins gives a life and salvation

47:59

By the way for I forgot to tell Susan Margaret of Dauphin County, Pennsylvania that you have won the book reading

48:06

Isaiah with Luther compliments of our friends at Concordia Publishing House for donating these books and also

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Compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVB BS comm who will be shipping

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The book out to you at no cost to you or to iron sharpens iron radio. Thanks again for The excellent question on iron sharpens iron radio

48:30

Well, you have in chapter 2 of your book something that you've already covered To a large degree in our first half hour

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But if you have anything to add to the role of the prophet and the conscience Well, I think that what we have to have is a clear understanding of the preaching of law and gospel the proper place of the law and the gospel

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That the idea will come in with the law in order to expose the sin

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And this is how the whole book of Isaiah opens up where God says children have I reared and brought up But they have rebelled against me the ox knows its owner

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That the donkey knows its master's manger But Israel does not know my people do not understand there right away

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This is what's going to be exposed that he's going to show forth their sin and you get this in chapter 1

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Sinful nation of people laden with iniquity offspring of evildoers children who do deal corruptly

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I mean all of this is just right up front before the people even calling him Sodom and Gomorrah that the city of Jerusalem is no different than the cities that have rebelled

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Against God before in the past and have been judged by God and you have this even this idea that the people think

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And this is where you get this this pietism that they think in their own Methods that they're pleasing to God so in chapter 1

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God speaks clearly to them and says hey when you spread out your hands I'm gonna hide my eyes even though you make many prayers.

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I'm not even gonna listen You're not pleasing me You're just basically pleasing yourself and the idea is that when their hands are held up and they say but look at all of the

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Burnt offerings we are giving to you Look at all the blood that's being shed because you like blood right

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God you like sacrifice right God and God It's going to explain to them over and over again that it's without his word

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Without his word it is not true worship without his word. It's without Christ.

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It's without comfort It's without the forgiveness of sins But Isaiah is going to preach that law to wake them up and so that they can recognize that this is the sinful condition

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We're in and our city is no different than any of the pagan cities. I mean, that's a huge wake -up call

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That's a huge slap in the face to the king to the the priest to the preachers and his preaching office

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But then Isaiah gets to the point where he says but yet Yahweh is going to come to you for this purpose that you would hear the message of the

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Messiah the forgiveness of sins And that's where you get to chapter 1 verse 18 come now Let us reason together says

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Yahweh though your sins are like scarlet They shall be as white as snow though. They are red like crimson.

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They shall become like wool So this is the sending of the Prophet is to give God's Word and God's Word is going to reset the conscience

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That God alone is judge God is the one who determines what is right and wrong in his sight and that whole going back to the question of the

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Ferris say Pharisee ism being a Pharisee being a pietist being in pietism is where you're deciding for yourself

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What is right and wrong? What is good and evil and now you're demanding that everybody else be subject to your rules and your regulations?

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Well here you have a reset where the Prophet says nope God is judge He alone is holy and he alone is the one who gives what is right and wrong in his sight

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But the Prophet doesn't leave the people there that it's just about God coming and smiting them and destroying them as the people of Israel They have the oracles of God They have the promise that was given to Adam He is the promise given to Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Moses and David and that promise is that the

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Messiah is going to come And that's where you get into chapter 2 of Isaiah that the kingdom of Christ will come and so the invitation has come

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Let us walk in the light you're walking in darkness the deception of the devil

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But the Word of God is going to bring you back into the light first by crushing you

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Humiliating you humbling you so you recognize your sin And then bringing you the light of the gospel where there's life that in Christ alone

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There is life and the forgiveness of sin, so this is that law and gospel preaching of the Prophet now again with chapter 3 idolatry idolatry and the conscience you've already addressed a lot of that in regard to Pietism in regard to people thinking so highly of themselves that what?

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troubles or savs their consciences Is more important than what

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God has to say? But do you have anything to add to that in regard to this very important theme of idolatry in the conscience well

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It just to reiterate and emphasize that when we're talking about idolatry We're not talking about statue worship in and of itself and the reason why

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I say this is The people will quickly dismiss this like oh well back then people were so dumb all back then they would worship anything

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They would worship sticks and stones and whatever it was well That's the mockery of the prophets and in essence what idolatry is doing is you are worshipping fallen creation

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Instead of the Creator Instead of God who made us originally in his image alike goodness

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Forming us molding us and shaping us idolatry is now you with the corrupted heart you are

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Forming and making a God and you're saying this is the God that I want to serve and that God looks a lot like me

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That it's in the image and likeness of me a sinner And that's what idolatry is and so they did whatever it is if it's the

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God Eros You know the Cupid like it the Greeks and the Romans with this deity of erotic love.

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I mean, that's that sexual Unrestrained sinful passions that we see now with the whole rampant in the sexual revolution

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And it's worshipping this this deity But not that it's a statue and so we don't want to get caught up in this

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Oh, well, that's not statue worship anymore. So therefore it doesn't count No, it counts precisely because it was never totally completely statue worship

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It was always forming a God in your shape in your image that teaches you to do the things that please you

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So what pleases you is what pleases your deity and that's what idolatry is all about so so Luther will talk about the the when you make an idol a statue and you're molding it and shaping it with your hands the emphasis is the work of your hands what you are doing to make your deity happy and By works of the law by works of any law and whether it be the divine law or human law

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Nobody's going to be righteous in God's sight So it's not by your own efforts in your own merit that you're going to gain

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Salvation of the forgiveness of sins this all comes from Christ And so all forms of idolatry are man -made methods of holiness trying to justify yourself

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Trying to declare yourself right just before God trying to appease your deity by whatever works that you think will work

55:41

Now I am reminded years ago one of the few times I ever saw

55:48

A comedian and talk show host Bill Maher silenced during his program there was a

55:54

Christian on the program who was an unwavering

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Calvinist and he was talking about the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality,

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I believe specifically and You know basically saying that if you do not repent of this sin and other sins you will be cast into the lake of fire and you'll be condemned for eternity in hell and Bill Maher retorted that is not the

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Jesus that most of us have come to know and love and the

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Christian guest responded Mr. Maher you don't know the first thing about Jesus Christ And he was

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Bill Maher was at least temporarily silenced because I think he's began to realize he was his guest was correct

56:44

But that is Bill Maher and and multitudes countless billions of others are creating a

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Jesus either with Greeting cards as their blueprint or Hollywood and television or from their own imagination, right?

57:01

Exactly, but it's a corrupted imagination. That's the problem I think we're we're we're on this side of the fall and so when we make a deity in our own image and likeness

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It's not God. It's not a holy God. It's not the Creator. It's fallen creation

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I think we're trying to emulate Ourselves into and project our own wills and our own desires into this deity that we want to serve

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So it's a false Christ. It's not the Jesus of Scripture It's the Jesus from a corrupted heart and this this whole idea of images images in the

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Old Testament are how people will perceive the deity that they're worshiping and Constantly the people are being persuaded by the world to worship a deity with a different image

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And with that image comes different acts different words Different ways in which the deity wants to be happy.

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Well, the people of God are constantly being tempted to Reshape what

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God is like in the image of what the people of the land say God is like and this constant issue

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Image worship over and over again. You have like in Isaiah chapter 40 to whom are you gonna like in God?

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Who are you gonna compare God's likeness with and I don't well These are silly and this is where the the prophets will mock and say it's just a craftsman

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Casting it the goldsmith overlays it with gold and he puts some silver chains on it

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You know part of that wood he's going to use and set up for his deity that he's going to please and the other part Of the wood.

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Well, he's going to use for cooking dinner warming up himself because it's cold outside So this is that mockery and in Luther will see this same kind of idolatry in these different monastic orders of his day that these were different forms of piety in which they were trying to please

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God with their own chosen actions and it becomes this pietism and Luther will mock and he'll mock like the

58:59

Prophet Isaiah and say you that rope that you've got wrapped around you as a monk that You think makes you so holy and special in God's sight

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Well, that's the same rope that the farmers using on the horse out there in the field and it's not making him any

59:13

More holy and so Luther will just to kind of mock him at it Did his works of the hands that these monastic orders are doing apart from Christ that they're trying to Do something to appease

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God's wrath They're trying to gain God's favor with their own actions and so the actions of Christ They're looking to emulate those who've gone on before them

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But but God is constantly who are you gonna liken me to you? You get this at Isaiah chapter 40 and you finally get to Isaiah chapter 42 where the father says be whole

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Now this is where you're going to see the true image of God behold my servant The suffering servant the one whom

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I am upholding my chosen one in whom my soul delights and I put my

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Spirit upon him so that's the image that God the father wants us to see the image of the lamb of God who takes away the sin of The world the son of God who comes and takes upon flesh born of the

01:00:11

Virgin Mary In time suffering under Pontius Pilate and nailed to a tree.

01:00:17

That's the image of God that's the true image that we want to see not these man -made images because that's the only way of Salvation the only way to have access to the father

01:00:28

He is the way and there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved We have to go to our midway break right now

01:00:34

And as always this is the elongated break that we need to take because grace life radio 90 .1

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Send in an email with a question for Brian Ketchelmeyer on Reading Isaiah with Luther on Martin Luther on Lutheranism on the conscience

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Chris ar n ze n a gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Advertise with us and keep us on the air here at Iron Trip and Zion radio. That's NAS Bible comm NAS Bible comm make sure you tell them that you heard about The New American Standard Bible from Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion radio before we return to Brian Keschelmeyer and our discussion on Reading Isaiah with Luther, which is part two of a discussion that we began on Tuesday, March 5th

01:13:19

This being Monday, March 18th. This is part two of our discussion We just have a few very important announcements to make about Upcoming events that we want you to attend first of all

01:13:32

We have coming up right around the corner. The debate on purgatory. Is it biblical between?

01:13:39

Pastor Bruce Bennett of the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York and Roman Catholic apologist

01:13:47

Matthew Luke Broderick, that's purgatory. Is it biblical? Saturday March 30th at 630 p .m.

01:13:57

And If you want more details on attending this go to WOT church .com

01:14:02

WOT which stands for word of truth WOT church .com

01:14:08

and Please tell pastor Bruce Bennett and the folks at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island that you heard about This event from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trip and Zion radio

01:14:17

Let me also give you a phone number if you prefer calling them area code 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14 and ask about the purgatory debate on Saturday, March 30th at 6 30 p .m

01:14:31

It's being pastor Bruce Bennett and Roman Catholic apologist Matthew Luke Broderick Then coming up in May from the 28th through the 30th.

01:14:38

The banner of truth is having their East Coast ministers conference featuring speakers Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn Steve Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:14:53

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries Michael Morales and Chad Vegas. The theme is I believe in the

01:14:58

Holy Spirit That's May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the

01:15:03

Elizabethtown College If you want more details on this event go to banner of truth org banner of truth org

01:15:10

Click on events and then scroll down to East Coast ministers conference There are other events there also in different parts of the country in different parts of the world

01:15:18

That you may prefer attending if you live closer to those events So feel free obviously to click on those events

01:15:25

But if you want to attend the same conference where I will be God willing Then please register for the

01:15:31

East Coast ministers conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania May 28th through the 30th at banner of truth org banner of truth org last but not least the foundations conference

01:15:40

Is being held again in New York City? December 19th and the 20th And I am so excited about this and I urge you if you want to attend as well to register quickly because the venue that They are where they are having this event can only hold about 200 people

01:15:56

The roster of speakers includes. Dr. Stephen J Lawson who you've heard on this program daily

01:16:03

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New Covenant Church, NYC We have Reverend Jeff Thomas on the roster Richard Coldwell jr

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Calvinist Christians Worldwide because he is such a powerful and gifted young man

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Andrew Quigley and Paul Washer has been added to the roster So if you want to attend

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Register at the foundations conference calm the Foundations conference calm make sure you put the in there or you're not gonna get the right website the foundations conference calm

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And that's for December 19th and 20th in Manhattan last but not least if you love iron sharpens iron radio

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Promoting something that's compatible with what I believe and we would love to help you do that Send me that email to Chris Arns in a gmail .com

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and put advertising in the subject line If you are not a member of a local Bible believing church, and you're not even looking for one prayerfully

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01:18:50

If you're not a member of a local Bible believing church and not prayerfully looking for one So if you're having a hard time send me an email to Chris Arns in a gmail .com

01:18:59

and put in the subject line I need a church home I have lists of churches all over the world that are biblically faithful Congregations and I've already helped a number of listeners in our audience find those churches in All places of the world you could be one of them send me that email to Chris Arns in a gmail .com

01:19:15

and put I need a church home in the subject line and I will help you as best as I can

01:19:21

You'll also use that email address to send in a question to Brian Kitchelmeyer on reading

01:19:26

Isaiah with Luther or more specifically on the human conscience and Our email address is Chris Arns in a gmail .com

01:19:33

Chris Arns in a gmail .com pastor Kitchelmeyer. We have an anonymous listener Who says

01:19:38

I have been plagued with doubts over whether or not I am truly born again

01:19:44

I am NOT involved in any scandalous Behavior that would be more of a reason that most churches would discipline or excommunicate someone

01:19:53

This is just a matter of the way that I feel guilt on a constant basis particularly involving

01:20:00

Sinful thoughts if you could please help me in this area I know that you are not a mind reader and only

01:20:08

God knows the heart truly and completely But do you think that because of my constant fear that I am

01:20:14

NOT saved that I am NOT saved as my fears may Lend me to believe Yeah, that's a

01:20:24

Typical kind of Reaction that people have falling falling into this this doubt

01:20:30

This despair and this is precisely what the devil wants. The devil is one who brings us into darkness and delusion

01:20:38

He's a spirit of sadness and sorrow Satan always wants to take us away from God's Word a

01:20:45

God light God's life God's hope I mean, this is what sin does sin separates us from God God on the other hand that desires that we would hear his word the word of life the the word of the message of the cross

01:20:59

Christ crucified and This this struggle that you have. I think that what this this tells us is that you as an individual

01:21:07

You know that there's problems in this world that is falling apart and in your own life

01:21:14

Things are falling apart, but it's the rock -solid Word of God is where we are to stand firm and going back to that word of God When you see

01:21:26

Jesus interacting with the Pharisees and with the tax collectors and the prostitutes

01:21:31

When he interacts with the Pharisees, these are the ones who are hardened in their heart their consciences are seared

01:21:37

They don't see any problem. They think that they're holy. They think that everything is going well That they they think that God is happy with everything they choose to do and they have no problem in their conscience

01:21:47

And this is where when Jesus will interact with him. He'll give him this harsh harsh law

01:21:52

Woe to you scribes and Pharisees This is that message of law to to reveal their sin to expose it

01:22:00

But at the other hand, you'll notice that the way Jesus will interact with the crushed with the downtrodden with those who already are

01:22:09

Humiliated and humbled the ones who recognize that they're sinners the ones who realize that they cannot save themselves from their own

01:22:17

Sinful condition that these are the ones that Jesus brings comfort to this message of peace the message of hope and the message of Life in Christ alone, and that's what we see in the book of Isaiah in especially chapter 53 that this focuses our attention on the

01:22:39

Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world When you look at the picture the image of the crucified one

01:22:46

He is a man of sorrows He is one that Was despised spit upon nobody liked they didn't want to have anything to do with him at all

01:22:56

He's the one that was rejected by humanity But it's in those passages in Isaiah 53 that we understand that he's not

01:23:04

One who is just the the epitome of everything wrong in the world instead

01:23:10

He's the one that's taking away everything that's wrong in the world. So all of the sins are placed upon him

01:23:17

He becomes the sinner of sinners. He becomes the servant Suffering servant unto death that he bears the iniquities of us and this passage here in Isaiah 53 is where we set our eyes upon him as the

01:23:32

Lamb of God who takes away the sin of The world and when Luther is talking here about the conscience that the

01:23:39

Christ is the king of the conscience And Christ is coming to the one who is crushed the one who is perplexed

01:23:47

The one who is afflicted and he's giving this comforting message of peace that for the sake of the suffering and death of Jesus We can be certain and sure that God is pleased with us for the sake of his son

01:24:00

And the focus then is on the person and work of Jesus on the cross

01:24:06

The one who is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world And this is what was happening in the days with Luther is people were they knew in their hearts that they were sinners

01:24:16

They knew that they were wrestling and struggling with this and they would go and they would try to figure out Well, what do

01:24:22

I do to to appease this this conscience? That's conflicted that it's afflicted and troubled and then they would look for these these false

01:24:31

Senses of security these false ways and they would look to Jesus as a judge and so they didn't want to go to Jesus Instead they would go to the

01:24:41

Saints or to Mary in particular and they were looking at Mary To intercede with them in Jesus Well, what

01:24:50

Luther does is he says but that's that's not the message of the gospel The message of the gospel is

01:24:56

Jesus is the one mediator Jesus is the Lamb of God so that when you're crushed you don't go to the

01:25:02

Saints. You don't go to other people You don't go to Mary to intercede for you. Instead you go straight to Jesus He is the high priest

01:25:10

The one who intercedes for sinners and you look at Jesus as the one who came to Bear our sin and to be with us in the midst of all these sorrows and these troubles and that the the the devil himself

01:25:24

Again is one who wants to keep us in doubt He is a spirit of sadness But he doesn't want us to hear the good news the the message of joy

01:25:33

That in the midst of this suffering and pain and struggle you have the promise of God that he works together for the good for All those who love him who have been called according to his purpose that he's assuring us that he's working together for the good in These things so we behold our eyes on Jesus We set them on Jesus and that's really what the

01:25:53

Prophet Isaiah is trying to do is the Prophet Isaiah is a seer a seer

01:25:58

He sees the vision of the Lamb Christ crucified for our sin And that's the vision that he wants to imprint upon the heart of the listener that Jesus suffered for our

01:26:10

Sin and he rose again and now he rose to for our justification He stands with our high priest so that the attention is focusing on the person and work of Jesus The devil wants you to focus on your work either in one way where you you've rejoiced in your sinful wicked

01:26:26

Activities or the devil wants you to focus on your work where you think your activities are good and holy and pleasing and make

01:26:33

God Favorable toward you, but what God always wants you to do is focus your eyes on Jesus So the

01:26:38

Father says behold my son the Holy Spirit says listen to this one

01:26:43

This is the one who is the king of your conscience who's come to bring comfort and peace peace with God Well, thank you anonymous listener, please

01:26:54

Off the air, of course Give me your full name and address because you have won a free copy of the book

01:27:01

We are addressing reading Isaiah with Luther Compliments of Concordia Publishing House and compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service who will be shipping it out to you

01:27:10

But no charge to you or to us so if you email me your full name and address I assure you you will not be identified on the air and We would love to send you this book

01:27:20

Yes being a former Roman Catholic again, I feel compelled to bring this up as far as I real idolatrous understanding of Mary where they

01:27:34

Believe Mary is more merciful and gracious and compassionate and loving Than Jesus Christ.

01:27:41

Therefore, not only is Jesus Jesus a mediator between God and man We need a mediator between man and Jesus being her mother because she will lend an ear to us more quickly than her son would that's that's really a horrible way of Elevating Mary to a place that we're only

01:27:59

Christ Should be upheld as as our mediator and so And this is the whole

01:28:07

Reformation is really about this About the issue of giving Christ the proper glory and honor that's due his name his office

01:28:15

He alone is that mediator and then of course taking that person in work of Christ and applying it to the troubled and conflicted

01:28:23

Conscience that only in him can you have peace all these other ways of either the divine law the divine law

01:28:30

You always try to do more and more and more but the laws never satisfied man -made rules and regulations

01:28:36

You can think that you satisfy but you're always still kind of doubting and you're always never really sure certain

01:28:41

So you're always trying to do one more thing because you know, it's never completely done But it's the gospel that tells you it is finished that Christ has done it on the cross for you

01:28:51

And so your attention is on his work not on your own Amen, well, you know,

01:28:58

I think that our anonymous listener actually makes a good segue to one of the chapters of your book

01:29:07

This would be a chapter 4 when the conscience is alarmed And I use this language of alarm because typically the conscience is something that we just ignore

01:29:18

We just go about our daily lives and you just do whatever you want until something happens something

01:29:25

External happens maybe the events of the day where all of a sudden you realize that things are not right

01:29:32

And as soon as you realize that things are not right in creation You're part of this creation where things are not right and you're not right with your creator

01:29:39

You become alarmed because now you realize your own mortality You realize your own impending death.

01:29:46

You realize your own gate Your own guilt your own shame your your own activities that are not pleasing to God and we see this with King Ahab King Ahab is to be a son of David King of Jerusalem to make sure that the

01:30:02

Word of God has Free course in the city of Jerusalem, but he doesn't he doesn't he?

01:30:09

enforces his own personal piety Forming into pietism upon the people

01:30:15

I mean He's the one who shuts the doors to the temple and he sets up his own altar and so he thinks everything is fine

01:30:22

Because if he's doing his own worship in his own ways without God's Word, he doesn't have

01:30:27

Christ He doesn't have peace and when the trials and tribulation of the life hit him hard That's when he realizes his works don't help at all and in chapter 7 of the book of Isaiah This is where we see that he hears about this this this kind of these rumblings of of an attempt to overthrow

01:30:50

Him as king that he hears that the king of northern Israel has gone into an alliance with the king of Syria and they're coming down to throw him out of the city of Jerusalem and take over and in the whole house that David Hears this that Syria is in league with if I am and it tells us at the heart of Ahaz and the heart of the people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind and so these

01:31:19

External circumstances alarm them. I mean before everything was fine This is where you know it before when you're doing your own things

01:31:27

You're doing your own ways and and you're happy with what you do in life as well And you even have this point in Isaiah chapter 28 where the people brag and say hey

01:31:37

We've made a covenant with death which say all we have an agreement. Everything is good with my soul

01:31:43

Well for a has all of a sudden everything is not good for his soul It's not gonna work and so he goes to the

01:31:51

Prophet Isaiah He goes to the right place to hear God's Word To hear the promises of the

01:31:58

Messiah to hear the assurance of the comfort that can only come through the king of the conscience

01:32:03

Which is Jesus and when he goes to Isaiah Isaiah starts to speak to him But he's gonna have nothing to do with it even though Isaiah speaks that word of God saying that this plan of the northern

01:32:15

Israel the northern Israel king and the king of Assyria is not gonna stand

01:32:20

It's not gonna come to pass. It will not come to fruition God declares it to be so that it will not happen

01:32:27

Well, then this is where he has says well Yeah I don't know about that because this is where Isaiah says ask the

01:32:34

Lord a sign and This is the point Chris where you see the personal piety of a has now because this piety is of it

01:32:42

He's gonna have to all file all false in his piety and he's gonna say hey I'm not gonna ask the

01:32:47

Lord a sign. I would never do such a thing and put Yahweh to the test I mean what a joke this guy is he's closed the doors to the temple

01:32:56

He's put up his own altars, and he thinks everything is fine with his soul Well, this is the place where he doesn't listen

01:33:03

He doesn't listen to the comforting word of God But it's at this very chapter

01:33:08

Where Isaiah speaks the comforting word to the house of David that behold the

01:33:14

Virgin shall conceive and bear a son in his name She'll be Emmanuel Focusing our attention on the person and work of Christ not the person and work of Ahab Not that son of David, but the true son of David the one who will save us

01:33:29

The one who will redeem us the one who is our refuge in the day of trouble

01:33:37

Another anonymous listener who says How do you respond to those

01:33:43

Roman Catholics who believe you are exaggerating the point that you just brought up moments ago in regard to the way that Catholics view

01:33:53

Mary and the Saints after all you ask your own friends family and loved ones to pray for you

01:33:59

What is wrong with Catholics asking Mary and the Saints to pray for them? Well There's a big difference in the way that they view that regardless of how they try to Explain it away.

01:34:12

Let me give you an example. I have a not gonna take too much time on this but a prayer of st.

01:34:20

Alphonse Liguori to Mary and keep in mind that this is a saint a canonized saint by the

01:34:26

Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church is Has urged people to pray to this saint and Alphonse Liguori in his

01:34:37

Where you could get this online on Roman Catholic websites this prayer to Mary Oh mother of perpetual hell

01:34:44

Thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners

01:34:51

And for this end he has made there Made these so powerful so rich and so bountiful in order that thou mayest help us in our misery

01:35:01

Thou and this is speaking about Mary thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners

01:35:08

Who have recourse to thee? come to my aid dearest mother for I Recommend myself to thee in thy hands.

01:35:19

I place my eternal salvation and to thee I do And to thee do

01:35:27

I entrust my soul Count me among thy most devoted servants.

01:35:33

Take me under thy protection and it is enough for me for if thou will protect me dear mother,

01:35:41

I Fear nothing not from my sins because thou Will obtain for me the pardon of them nor from the devil's

01:35:52

Because thou art more powerful than all of hell together nor even from Jesus my judge himself because By one prayer from thee he will be appeased now obviously

01:36:09

You would never say that to your mother your sister your your father your brother your neighbor

01:36:14

This is this is purely idolatry and I'm sorry for the detour But the question was asked and I think it was an important one since we were just speaking about it earlier

01:36:23

Your comments on that also pastor Ketchelmeyer Well, this is precisely what's taking place at the time of the

01:36:30

Reformation and Luther in his own Experience the experience of his parishioners the people of God in those days you get troubled in that that day of death

01:36:40

So it's the hour of temptation of the day of death where you start to wonder where are you?

01:36:46

When it comes to being you're your place standing before the judge God is the judge and how are you going to prepare yourself for death and Luther will say this here's this wonderful quote by Luther He says that when you're preparing for death that you are getting ready to die

01:37:04

You must look to Christ in whom you see death Conquered there the serpents head is bruised and there you will see the whole

01:37:14

Image and the trophies of victory against our foes. We must not look at our sins and disgraceful acts

01:37:20

But we ought to get out of ourselves away from our sins in our presupposition and go to Christ himself

01:37:28

To the Lamb of God that bears the sins of the world to him

01:37:34

We should rise on him we should look and so this is the focus that Luther wants is on the

01:37:41

Person and work of Christ. So how do you prepare for death? Will you look to the death of Jesus the one who atones for our sin in his sacrificial death on the cross?

01:37:52

given up for our transgressions and then raised for our Justification so that's the one you set your eyes upon Jesus as the

01:37:59

Lamb and for Luther He loves this image of the Lamb the sacrificial Lamb that is bearing your sin

01:38:07

So where's your sin not on your shoulders? It's on his shoulders the one who knew no sin became sin for you so that you might become the righteousness of God Well, we have to go to our final break and by the way for our last

01:38:23

Anonymous questioner give me your full name and address off the air Of course and you will receive a free copy of the book that we have been discussing by our guest

01:38:32

Brian Ketchel Meyer reading Isaiah with Luther compliments of our friends at Concordia public publishing house and compliments of CV bbs .com

01:38:40

who will be shipping it out to you and Don't go away. We are coming back Shortly with our last segment of today's interview with Brian Ketchel Meyer on reading

01:38:50

Isaiah with Luther To the church at Galatia for am

01:38:55

I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

01:39:02

I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

01:39:08

Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

01:39:16

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

01:39:21

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

01:39:27

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01:47:33

Well, I'm sure that song is putting chills up the spine of my guest Brian Ketchel Meyer due to the author

01:47:38

Martin Luther One of the most beloved hymns ever written And if you'd like to join us now's the time to do it because we're running out of time

01:47:47

Chris Arnson at gmail .com is the email where you can send a question and now we are coming to a very

01:47:56

Intriguing chapter title Satan attacks the conscience like a city if you could Yeah, so this idea here is that Satan is going to try to take us out

01:48:07

He's going to attack us with all kinds of ways of wickedness He gives us deception.

01:48:14

He tries to lead us into a different word than God's Word So the issue here is that we are in a battle for all our souls

01:48:23

That this is a war of words and it started in the garden when Adam and Eve were given the word of God you shall not eat of The tree of the knowledge of good and evil and Satan comes in and he brings doubt to God's Word and says that God Really say that so that beginning

01:48:41

Initial war of words starts in the garden and it continues on into our day The devil is very deceitful

01:48:49

I mean on one end He'll try to take your conscience and he'll try to just avoid out your conscience

01:48:55

So they've become seared and you don't even worry about your conscience and everything is good in your side

01:49:01

Everything is awesome. And everything's wonderful Or on the other hand, he tries to lead you into complete doubt and despair

01:49:09

I mean so on one end you are a self -righteous Center and you've got this all sense of security or on the other hand

01:49:19

You are completely down in the ground and the dirt and there is no hope and you are pushed to the utter brink of Death and this is how the devil is very tricky in these things and I want you to see in Hezekiah It's so in Isaiah Chapters 36 37 you're going into the end 38 39 this is that Hezekiah who's

01:49:44

King King who reforms the temple He brings the temple back up to par

01:49:50

He rebuilds it if you will because his father before him have put it in a disarray

01:49:55

And so now here he comes to bring once again the message of Isaiah the proclamation of the

01:50:00

Christ Emmanuel God with us and it's at this point where Satan attacks

01:50:06

Through the means of the rabshaka So you have the delegate coming and the delegate saying that hey the the king of Assyria has sent me and guess what?

01:50:16

We're taking your city and this this war of words goes on between the rabshaka

01:50:22

Yeah, it has a kaya and going back and forth of what's taking place it and a this is very striking in Isaiah Chapter 36 where the rabshaka says but if you guys

01:50:36

Say to me that we trust in Yahweh our God Now he so he's putting this out there to them because he knows that's who they're putting their trust in That's who

01:50:45

Isaiah is telling them to trust in the Lord not to trust in princes And he's going to say if you're trusting in Yahweh It is this one

01:50:55

Yahweh. Is it not he whose high places and altars? Hezekiah has removed.

01:51:02

I mean get how dirty this is Hezekiah is the one who comes in with Reformation he reforms the false worship and the idolatry of King Ahaz But now the rabshaka comes in and he's putting these words of doubt into the ears and the hearts of the people of Jerusalem saying

01:51:20

Hey, the reason why Assyria is going to lay waste to the city because Hezekiah of his own

01:51:27

Personal pietism has chosen a new form of worship Even though the form of worship that Hezekiah is doing is based upon God's Reinstituted word where God's promises are with God's Word you have

01:51:42

Christ without God's Word You don't have Christ and you don't have peace So Hezekiah is hearing this the people are hearing this and it's this whole

01:51:50

Distortion of the truth because the devil is a liar from the beginning and so he's the rabshaka is trying to put this back

01:51:58

On Hezekiah. He's the one who brought this on you because he removed the altars that were doing well with Yahweh I mean because before Isaiah came on the scene everything was good the people thought and so did the priest

01:52:12

But here it's Hezekiah who says you should do it this way. You should worship before this altar

01:52:19

I mean how conniving is that and then the rabshaka goes on in chapter 36 and he goes moreover

01:52:26

Do you think it's not without Yahweh that I've come up to to take this city in this land?

01:52:32

In fact, you have the rabshaka claiming that Yahweh spoke to me Individually saying go up against this land and destroy it here

01:52:42

The rabshaka is claiming this extra biblical revelation this direct pipeline with God and The rabshaka is the

01:52:50

Holy One the rabshaka and the king of Assyria They're the ones who are doing God's will not

01:52:55

King Hezekiah not the Prophet Isaiah So this is what shakes Hezekiah to the core because now he's wondering.

01:53:04

Well, did I do the right thing? Am I the one who is in the wrong and he's saying it?

01:53:10

Am I at fault did I go against the Word of God? So he doesn't know what's happening here

01:53:17

It's a war of words and this is how Satan is going to attack the conscience like he's attacking a city

01:53:22

So he's trying to break down the walls. He's trying to find a place of weakness in that wall

01:53:28

Place where he can enter in and once he gets into the city once he gets into the conscience this is where he starts bringing chaos and he starts bringing doubt and despair and The rabshaka is crying out and saying hear the words of the great king the king of Assyria And even when he starts speaking these words of the king of Assyria It sounds a lot like the words of Yahweh and so the people are confused

01:53:53

Well, which word are we to listen to are we to listen to the word of the rabshaka who's promising us life and prosperity or?

01:54:01

Are we to listen to the words of Hezekiah that's bringing this disaster and death upon us? So this is this whole issue of the conscience the crisis that now

01:54:10

Hezekiah himself is going to face and he's going to go to Isaiah because Isaiah is the one that's going to speak the

01:54:18

Word of God This is the only place that the conscience can be fortified fortified with God's Word formed again in sync with God's will of both law showing that God is the judge he decides what's right and wrong and Gospel focusing our attention on the crucified one the

01:54:36

Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world So this is where Isaiah is going to assure this terrified conscience of Hezekiah by speaking this

01:54:44

Word of God Saying that God says Yahweh Do not be afraid because of the words that you have heard and so Yahweh is assuring him that the promises that Isaiah is speaking they're all going to be fulfilled in Jesus will stand firm and Hezekiah is to listen to Yahweh and his promise

01:55:06

We have a listener in Cork, Ireland Mary Who says with all this talk about the attacks of Satan?

01:55:13

What kind of power does Satan actually have with a Christian? I am immediately thinking of the fact that Luther had an appearance of Satan allegedly and He threw an inkwell at him.

01:55:27

Is this a true story in your opinion or apocryphal? Well, I think that it's definitely it's in the realm of possibility, right?

01:55:35

I mean we would agree with that, right Chris I I don't know. I wasn't there. I mean you have different scholars who say different things

01:55:41

I I like the story because the story actually is in line with the reality that God reveals to us in his

01:55:47

Word That Satan is trying to defeat Luther Luther like Hezekiah is now starting to have these pangs and the crisis of his own conscience

01:55:56

Because what Rome will do when Luther starts to reform the church is the Bishop of Rome the papist

01:56:03

They start coming back at Luther and they say look what you did to the church Look what you did to the whole

01:56:11

Western civilization and they're putting it back on Luther And so this is the idea of Satan doing these things and typically you you get this through the

01:56:21

Instrumental means of other people trying to bring you down trying to bring down despair and it is definitely in the realm of possibility

01:56:27

But what we see with Luther then is Luther will say that Satan in his Is attacking him in these different ways and the way he responds is with God's Word So when

01:56:38

Satan comes and attacks Luther and says hey You are a sinner and there's no way that God would ever be happy with you

01:56:47

Then Luther responds to the devil. You're right. I am a sinner And in fact, you've brought to my attention these sins

01:56:54

Oh devil. I'm gonna bring to your attention. There's some sins you forgot If We want to talk about my sins, he's all

01:57:05

I agree with you I'm a sinner and I'm gonna bring out some sins You didn't even think of and he goes but but Luther cuz

01:57:11

Luther will talk this way a lot And so it is the question is is it a personification?

01:57:17

Is it how Luther is dealing with his own struggles in his own heart and how he interacts with this?

01:57:23

We all have these these these doubts that come into our mind and the source of these doubts is going to be the devil

01:57:30

So is it directly or indirectly? Well Luther will joke about this all the time where he will speak back to the devil because it's a war of words

01:57:39

And he'll use God's Word, which is the sword of the Spirit and say yes, you are right devil

01:57:44

Uh that God is not happy with me because I'm a sinner However, you forgot that Jesus died for my sin and you forgot

01:57:53

Oh devil that you've been defeated by him So so Luther becomes very lively and how he'll talk about his his own

01:58:03

Trials and tribulations in his own heart in his own mind at the circumstances of the

01:58:09

Reformation I mean he was troubled he was to the point of despair multiple times I mean, can you imagine the weight of the world on his shoulders that everybody's coming down on him saying look?

01:58:19

There's wars that are started because of you. Oh, look There's all these different churches that are breaking off because of you look

01:58:26

There are people who are becoming atheists and rejecting Christ completely all because of you

01:58:31

I mean all this is being laid upon his shoulders, but Luther is able to say you're right

01:58:36

I'm crushed but Jesus is the Savior of the crushed He's the lamb that bears my burden and so his focus is always going to be back on Jesus Amen, and we're out of time.

01:58:47

I want to thank you Obviously first and foremost pastor Brian Ketchelmeyer for being our guest today And I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in with questions

01:58:58

If you want to get in touch with pastor Brian Ketchelmeyer the website of Redeemer Evangelical Lutheran Church in Los Alamos, New Mexico is

01:59:08

Redeemer Los Alamos org Redeemer Los Alamos org if you want to find out more about Concordia Publishing House who published his book reading

01:59:17

Isaiah with Luther Go to CPH org CPH which stands for Concordia Publishing House org

01:59:25

CPH org I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater