Mormon Street Conversation: Is Jesus God? Part 1

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Mormon Street Conversation: Is Jesus God? Part 2

00:03

What's this? This is a gospel track. Gospel? Antiochus? No. Gospel for Mormons?

00:09

Yes. What's it? Yes. We are Reformed Baptists from a local church and we're here to talk to you guys about the gospel.

00:14

Ah. Do you know about our differences? With the Baptists and our church?

00:20

Yes. I know we're Christians. Right. Do you know where we differ though? Do you know why we would be out here offering tracks?

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Offering? Tracks. Tracks. That's what these are called. Gospel tracks. Are they? Okay. So yeah.

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Tell me why. Tell you why we are offering it? Yeah. Okay. So we believe that you guys believe in a different Jesus than us.

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Would you agree with that? Oh no. That's really sad. Do you think we believe in the same Jesus? Of course. Of course. Really? Yeah.

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Did the Jesus that you believe in create all things? Jesus created this earth.

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Did he create all things? All things. All things. Like it says in uh... All things.

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Colossians chapter 1 verse 16. He created all things on this earth. It says he created all things visible and invisible.

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That's what it says in Colossians 1, 16. And this earth? Everything. Literally everything. Well you're talking about this earth, right?

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No, no. No, no. Not just this earth. Everything. It says... You're talking about the universe and the galaxies? All of it.

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So... It actually says in John chapter 1, everything that was made was made by Jesus.

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It really exhausts the language. Let's look. Yeah, let's look. I haven't pulled that up.

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Is this the King James version? I can pull that up. I got a King James version. Yeah. That's the most translated correctly.

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Most accurate. I don't want to mess around with revised or... That's fine. So... So there's two different ones

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I would show you. Two? We're talking King James. Yep. This is King James. King James. KJV, right? So in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was

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God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things. All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.

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So it says everything that was created was created by Jesus. Everything. So it doesn't give any conditions or caveats.

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It doesn't say everything on earth. So you know the Ten Commandments, right? Yeah. You know the commandments. Sure. So God said, thou shalt not worship any other gods before me.

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Agreed. Right? Yes. Absolutely. And so... All right.

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So we start our prayers, dear Heavenly Father. Okay. Okay.

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Do you believe that Jesus is his son? That Jesus had a father? Do I believe Jesus is the father's son?

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Do you believe Jesus had a father? Do you mean like a physical father, like on earth? Not on this earth.

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No. Do I... So here's ours. God the father and his son. Oh, I believe...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, there's a Holy Ghost. Sure. Sure. I believe Jesus is the son of God, if that's what you're asking.

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Yeah. Yes. I believe that. But I also... We're all the same. I also believe Jesus is God in the flesh, according to what we just read.

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Jesus is a God. So not a God. Jesus is our God of this earth. Not a God. But where does it say that in Scripture?

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Jesus is the God of this earth. So... Where does it say that in Scripture? Well... Just in Scripture. There's a whole lot of confusing stuff that people can kind of get things a little messed up.

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Can I show you? I'd love to get my husband here because... Please. Please. He's... I'd love to talk to him. Yeah.

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Can I just show you one more thing really quick in this verse? It says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the

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Word was God. Not a God, but the Word was God. Right. God.

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Right. There's a whole thing on that. Okay. I appreciate you... I might not get ice cream, but that's okay.

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I appreciate you talking to us for a minute. I don't need the ice cream. It's good ice cream. Thank you. I appreciate you talking to us for a minute. So our concern is that the

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Bible clearly states that there's one God. You know what I love? What's that? I love that you're concerned.

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I appreciate that. You know what I love? What's that? I love that you guys are seeking for exactness.

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Yes. Absolutely. We think that's important. It is. We think that's important. And that...

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But you know what I'm sad about? Go for it. Is our search for exactness...

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Yeah. Has put walls up. Mm -hmm. Right? Like... Do you mean between like LDS and other churches?

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Yeah. There shouldn't be walls up. Well... We all gotta know there's one

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God. Right. He sent his son. True. Jesus Christ. But the character of that God, the nature of that God, wouldn't you say that's important?

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Of course the character of God is... He's perfect. Right. And so... See, they are as one. They work together as one.

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So are they one or do they work together as one? They are two separate personages. Okay. Are they different in nature, in being?

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Yes. They are. But they... But their work is the same and their glory is the same. Okay. But Jesus promised...

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Jesus told God... Uh -huh. Let me go and the glory be thine.

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But Christ in John chapter 17, he says, Restored me to the glory

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I had with you before the world was. And then in the Old Testament in Isaiah, God said he won't share his glory with anyone.

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He will not share his glory. And Jesus never asked to share his glory with him.

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And that's why he was chosen. You know who wanted to share, who wanted all the glory? That was Satan. So wait.

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He wanted all the glory. I got you. So what I'm saying is Jesus asked God to restore to him the glory that he once had with him.

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That they had the same glory. They had the glory together. Jesus did not ask

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God to share the glory. I'll get it for you really quick. I'll get it for you.

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It's in John 17. Is this King James? This would be King James, yeah.

05:59

What's your name? Oscar. Oscar. Yes. I'm Debbie. Debbie? Amanda. Amanda? I appreciate you talking to us for a minute.

06:08

Well, so, there's a lot of confusion. Yes, could you maybe clear some of that up?

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The reason why we start our prayer is God. He is our

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God. And he's also... So, we start our prayer, but through Christ, we are saved.

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Right. Right? Do you agree with that? How's it going, man? Good to see you, man. How are you doing?

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I thought I was wondering if you guys were going to be here. I just showed up like, hey, we're going to watch. And I was like, you know what? I'll bet he's out here.

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I want to go see if you guys are around. Good to see you, man. Good to see you, buddy. With... James and John.

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Can I... James and John? With James and John. They... That I hadn't heard before. What's that? I'm sorry. Could you...

06:53

That Jesus created the earth with James and John. And he had... James and John, the... He had some helpers. The disciples? Yeah. Can I read this to you really quick?

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Can I read this to you? Yeah. This is John 17 and 5. And now, O Father, glorify thou with me thine own self with the glory which

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I had with thee before the world was. He did have glory with them. So he did. So they... Yes, they had glory together.

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Yes. So God... Do you think they were all trying to decide who's greater? I do not think that at all.

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I don't think they had that conversation. I think they're in perfect unity. But the reason why I'm saying that is because Old Testament, Isaiah says,

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God says in Isaiah, he will not share his glory with another. He will not share. So if we have two people that are sharing glory in the

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New Testament, the Son, the Father and the Son. But in the Old Testament, he said he won't share his glory. What does that mean?

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So he was talking to somebody, but was he referring to Jesus? Who was he talking to when he said that?

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He was talking to man. Yeah. All right. Is Jesus a man? Jesus was a

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God. Is he a man, though? I agree Jesus is a God, but is he man also? He was a perfect man.

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I agree. I agree. So what I'm saying is, we have to harmonize the text.

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One of these, at least one of our understandings... No, Jesus was... He died. Sure. He was resurrected, as we will be someday.

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Sure. Do you believe that God is a man? He has a body, a flesh, and a spirit.

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Okay. So let's... Can I take this... Let's take this to the beginning. He's not like... I got you.

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He's not going to bleed like us. I got you. He doesn't have blood, right? Right. Can I ask you, why... Why do you believe in your church?

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Like, what brought you to faith in, you know, Latter -day Saint theology, the prophet

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Joseph? Like, how did you come to believe that? I've never needed to question whether it's true.

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I have that confirmation in my heart, so whenever I hear something else, I just feel like I'm on a straight line to it.

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It's like... It's like my burning in my bosom. Is it like a personal revelation you feel like from God?

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Oh, yes. Yes. So how would you say you know that's God that gives you that feeling? That's giving me that?

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How do you know that that's God? Because I get peace. So what would you say to maybe a

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Muslim who says they've prayed to Allah and Allah has given them peace, and they know that Allah is the true

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God and the Qur 'an is the true book because Allah has given them peace? God loves all of us. So do you think that they could be right as well as you?

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When they pray, God is hearing their prayers. So could God confirm that Islam is true?

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What God understands is that He knows our hearts and He knows our level of understanding, so all of us want the same thing, right?

09:42

Sure. Well, anyone who wants to walk a straight line is going to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

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Right. And when we pray to Him, He hears all of our prayers. I got you. Just because we're in a different church does not mean

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He's not hearing our prayers. I got you. As long as you're sincere. It's like...

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Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's why I use the example of Islam. That's why we don't judge each other. I got you. That's why we love each other.

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Right. We forgive each other. We help each other. 100%. We are all God's children. Okay. We're equal that way.

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He loves us all equally and we all have the potential to strive for perfection as He's asked us to.

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I understand that. He says, be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Why did He ask that?

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Because we have eternity to work on it. I got you. There's a difference between salvation and exaltation, though.

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I agree. I agree. So salvation is everybody's going to be saved that believes in Him. Okay. What about the

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Muslim? Will the Muslim be saved? They believe in Jesus. I don't understand the Muslim faith. Well, what if they say that they believe in Jesus?

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They just don't believe He died. If they say they believe in Jesus? But listen. They don't believe He died on the cross. Well, they're halfway there. They don't believe He died on the cross, though.

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That's a problem. Is it? But I love them and they're going to find out. So I guess the question I would have them is, why do missions?

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Why do a mission? Like, why do a mission if it's going to be? You know you're being recorded.

11:03

Am I? Yeah, you are. Two cameras. Just so you know. Oh, I don't know that. Yeah, you do.

11:10

Hey, guys. I didn't know. Thank you for knowing all things. My name is Debbie West Coon and I sing. Thank you so much,

11:15

Debbie. Thank you so much for speaking to us. Check out my music on YouTube. Debbie West Coon. Do you really have music on YouTube?

11:21

I seriously do. Debbie West Coon. Oh, and my new album here. Look, I've got the cover for it. Oh, you have a whole album?

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It looks like this. That's awesome. I will check it out. Rich, Shirley. Hi, guys. Shirley. It's called

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Prince of Peace, my third album. Wow, that's amazing. Check it out. That's amazing. Can I just finish with one thing?

11:37

Can I just ask you? The reason why I asked about the Muslim is because would you say that they're wrong? That Islam is wrong?

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I'm not going to say that Muslims are wrong. They are... I'm not saying say it to them.

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Let's take a person who's raised Muslim their whole life. I'm going to admire that person who strives to follow the teachings of Christ.

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I got you. If they don't believe in Christ, I hope they're following God. Do you think that there's hope if they don't believe in Christ?

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Yes. There's hope. Well, there's hope to get them to believe. To believe in Christ. So, what

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I would ask then is... You don't give up on people. I got you. I'm not saying that absolutely God could save anybody.

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I guess what I'm asking you is, is it possible... Even if you won't say it to them, you do believe that they're wrong, right?

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Okay. They're wrong about Christ. Would you say that? I haven't read their books, so I can't tell you. I got you. I'll tell you what they say.

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They say Christ never died on the cross. Well, see, they're confused. So, they're wrong. They're confused, yeah. Okay.

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So, I would agree. I would also agree that they're wrong. I do not think that they're right about what they believe about Christ. And so, that's why we go out and seek these kind of people so that we can share the gospel with them.

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So that they can be saved. So, what I'm asking is, it is important. Christ and what he did in his life and his nature is important, right?

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And I love that you're here. You're teaching. I appreciate it. And I hope you'll find Muslims, too.

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Because you're going to bring them... You're like that stepping stone. So, do it. Go for it.

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What I mean by that is, we also have differences about Christ. That's what I started with. We believe Christ created all things.

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You don't. You don't think that that's important? I think Christ created this earth. Not just this earth, though.

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Remember what we read. Everything that was made was made by Christ. Everything. See, I got to tell you something.

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Yeah, please. Does it matter? Yes. It does. It does. To have our wording all perfect right now, today...

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Jesus is I am the way, the truth, and the life. But should we be having an argument about it?

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Oh, no, no, no. Just conversation, not argument. It says it's appointed every man to live once and then the judgment.

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We have this life and then the judgment. That's what the Bible teaches. Not multiple chances to be exalted.

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Right. And Jesus would say... Do you agree with that? Yes. Jesus would say it's important. Right? So, could

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I read a verse to you really quick? Well, it's important. It's definitely... We need... Before we die...

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Yeah. We need to declare that Christ is our Savior. But, I mean, which

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Christ? We need to believe Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I got you. The one who came and gave his life on the cross in Israel on the hill of Golgotha.

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But we do know that there's people that believe in other Christ. The Bible even speaks about other

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Christ. Right? That people believe in a false Christ. So, that's why we're trying to clarify. So, if I could read this to you really quick in John 8.

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Do you think we believe in a false Christ? Yes. You do? Yes. That's why we're here. You do? Well, I believe

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Christ created all things and you don't. You don't believe in Christ? Christ created this world.

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But we read it, though. And it said everything that was made. Do you believe Christ and Lucifer are brothers?

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Well, they were created... They were spirits in heaven and... Was Christ created?

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Yes. You see? You see what I mean? I just said Christ created all things. You said Christ was created. That's a different person.

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It's not the same person. Right? Their natures are different. Preacher and creator. Now, let's talk about this.

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Yes. Where did God come from? God is eternal. He is? He's eternal. He is?

15:13

Right. But how do you know He didn't have parents? It's not an exalted answer. Well, God says there was no God before Him.

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Neither shall there be after Him. Of His creation. But you had to add that.

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That's not in the text. I want to ask you something. Yeah, sure. Now, keep your mind open. Okay. Okay? We're not giving all the meat here.

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For sure. Go for it. We're not giving everything. Go for it. Okay? Yeah. Why would God say, Thou shalt not worship any other gods before me?

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Because people make other gods out of all kinds of things. When you're talking about... He says I'm a jealous God.

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I agree. Thou shalt not worship any other gods before me. So, if we look at the second commandment, right? And it talks about not to make any graven images.

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Right? Why are they not to make graven images? Why are there gods mentioned in the Old Testament? This is what

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I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. Because people regard them as God. That's why they make these graven images and they regard them as God.

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That's a really good answer. Right? That's a really good answer. We don't say that those are actual gods. We say people treat them as gods.

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But if we're going to take God... They worship Him as God. Right. But if we're going to take the true God on His word, He says,

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There was no gods before me. There will be no gods after me. So, when you say Jesus is a

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God, did He come after the Father? He's a God that came after the Father? You see how that doesn't...

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But are you... I want to get my husband here. I would love to talk to him. Because he's the scriptorian, you know?

16:37

I got you. Are you going to be here after? I'll be here. Try to get him. I'll be here. Okay. He gets tired. He gets sleepy at night.

16:42

I understand. I understand. Do you have a phone number? Do you have a contact? Yes, I do. I do. Because you're making some very good points and nobody's ever asked me these questions before.

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Really? No one has ever asked me these questions. I mean, you just... Okay. There's God, the

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Father... Here you go. This is my card here. His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. So, you don't question any more than that.

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There's God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. But the scripture says there's one

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God and then you just named three gods. It also warns about... Holy Ghost is not a God. Holy Ghost is not a

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God. He doesn't... Joseph Smith taught that it was three gods. He doesn't have a body. Joseph Smith taught that there was three gods and he also taught that the

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Spirit... Joseph Smith isn't a God. He's a prophet. No, you're right. So, he could be wrong. He was a man. He could be wrong about that. What did you say Joseph Smith said?

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He said that there were three gods of this planet. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Otherwise, what would you say the

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Spirit was? There are three beings that work as one and that is

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God... The Father. The Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost doesn't have a body.

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So, does that make him not a God? Because he doesn't have a body. What is the Holy Ghost? We just worship one

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God. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Can I leave you with one thing? You're really asking really good questions.

18:02

I appreciate... Can I leave you... I'll just leave you... I'll leave you with one verse, okay? And that's my card. You can give it to your husband.

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If you guys got time, come back and talk to him. It's okay. This is why we think what we're saying is important, okay?

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Christ says in John chapter 8, he says, I said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins.

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For if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. That word, I am, is ego,

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I am. That's the reference to the Old Testament, I am that I am. Right? Exodus chapter 3.

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That's God. That's God, right? That's before the earth was even created. So, he's saying that about himself. You're saying

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Jesus just said that? Jesus just said that. Those were Jesus' words. He says, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

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I'm not going to argue with you. No, no, I don't want to argue. No, I'm not. There's a lot of this and that right in there, you know?

18:53

That's so close and so easy to confuse. For sure. And so, you're trying to get it more zoned in.

19:00

I'm sorry to interrupt. Can I borrow y 'all for a second? Real fast. Can you borrow? Can I borrow you two for a second? Okay.

19:06

One second. Do you know this guy? No, no, no. I'm just here. You're a bouncer? No, not at all.

19:12

No, but I am single. So, if you've got anybody in mind, you know what I'm saying? I'm good at this. I appreciate you talking to us.

19:18

Thank you so much. Nice talking to you guys. I missed out on ice cream. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry about that.

19:23

That's okay. I'm going to run to my husband. We'll be out here, though, if you guys have time to talk. I don't know if he's going to...

19:29

You have my card, though. But I'm going to ask him that question. I drove my own car here. And I'm going to ask him that question about those very close lines there.

19:39

Yeah, for sure. And if he gives it to me, I'll come running back. Okay. I want you to know... We'll have some more. I'll leave you with this.

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We're out here because we love you guys. I love you guys, too. That's truly why we're here. I love you guys, too. We're not here to rebuke you.

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We're out here because we want to share with you the true Christ. You're sharing the word. All right. I love you for that, too. Thank you so much.

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You have a great night. You guys are good people. All right. Have a great one. Thank you. And you know what? I want to see us serve together.

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I don't want to see separation. We've got to come together. We've got to come together. Well, we have to come together on who

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Christ is. Everybody needs to come together. And we shouldn't be nitpicking at our differences so much as right now, really coming together, going for life, fighting for life, fighting for our freedom, fighting for our

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God -given rights. I hear you. I mean, I believe everybody deserves those rights. That's a bigger battle right now. It's to fight off Satan.

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That's a bigger battle than anything. And we need to come together and stop nitpicking at each other's differences.

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We would only nitpick where the Bible does. If the Bible is nitpicking, then that's when we would nitpick. Yeah. But listen, we can't be stumbling over that right now.

20:51

There's a war going on. That's correct. They're taking everything away. Right. We're losing our country.

20:58

You think it's a war on truth. Huge. Yeah, I agree. Amen. All right. I agree. Have a great night, man.

21:03

Tell me one more time your name. Debbie West. Debbie. I'm going to look you up on YouTube. My last name. You won't forget my last name.