Christless Christianity - [Chapter 4]

Father in heaven, thank you for this morning. Thank you for this opportunity to gather together with these men To examine really the state of Evangelicalism today. I pray that you'd bless and strengthen us that you'd cause us to To think more carefully to examine things around us more cautiously.

And and father to just embrace that which is true in Jesus name we pray. Amen. All right, so we left off at number 29. I believe in last week's quiz. Last week's quiz last week. I was somebody said well, actually I think Brian asked me and I'm like, yeah, I'm actually in, North Carolina so no, we won't be meeting besides that was Memorial Day weekend, etc, but.

Self-Examination, Hebrews 12, and the Problem with Looking at Ourselves

And Number 29 is true. Okay to her false. We can never examine ourselves sufficiently. Brian says true never endless quest to examine ourselves. I Put false and I'm gonna tell you why Horton says if you want to sin you can sin.

I Sin all I want to he says the good news is that I don't want to Stop dwelling on everything that's wrong with you and take an inventory of what and Taking an inventory of what you're not the scripture says in Hebrews to look away from everything that distracts.

So he's quoting Osteen here then he says Joel Osteen and then he says once again Osteen misquotes the Bible to make his points Hebrews 12 1 2 2 actually reads. Therefore since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us Let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin in which Which so easily entangles us and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.

Fixing our eyes on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith. Who for the joy set before him endured the cross despising the shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God? In other words the counsel in Hebrews is to look away from ourselves.

Both our sins and our good works and not let anything distract us from Christ either for our. Well, I mean it you know. Because what's your your reflex was to think what? Well 2nd Corinthians 13 5 right examine yourself see if you're in the faith and so.

Which is often taken out of context, but his point is if we're looking at ourselves whether it's for good or for ill. We've got the wrong object of our study. Our focus needs to be on Christ the author and perfecter of our faith right now.

You could say well, what about 2nd Corinthians 13 5 what about it? I mean is it wrong you know to think man the way? I think the way I live how could I even be saved. Is that wrong? No to an extent. But again think about that question the way.

I live the way. I think the way I act could I even be saved. Is there something wrong with that? Me me me me me me me. I mean what what kind of what kind of 2nd Corinthians 13 5 tests would that be where?

I just thought. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing pretty well. Examine yourself see if you're even in the faith. Yes. I am because I do things that other people don't. I mean compare me to That tax gatherer. I'm looking pretty good.

Thoughts questions concerns. Right, but but I think on the other side you have to look at it this way. Yeah, Brian. Okay, but but you know getting back to the never-ending thing. If I'm constantly looking to my performance for assurance of my salvation then what.

I have no assurance of salvation. Okay overruled. Nice nice try though. Nice nice try Dave. No, you're never gonna beat that there although. Wait a minute the highlighter was defeated once so. Yeah, or twice.

Maybe I. I don't know Brian. I'll have to check the check the tapes. Or Joe heafists. I've heard of both ways. Okay number 30 true or false when tragedy strikes let God comfort you and move on. Which should be disconcerting.

It doesn't sound horrible, but it does sound like something Joel Osteen would say. And the let's see what the highlighter says. False. Yeah, it says false. Osteen was asked why there is suffering although.

He is correct that we cannot solve this Dilemma philosophically he offered no suggestion that it is solved in historical terms by Christ's Resurrection as the first fruits of the new creation. Here's Osteen the answer I get or the answer is I don't know.

Well. That's pretty much. I mean you know. That's his standard. I don't know who goes to heaven. I don't know. Are there more ways to heaven than one. I don't know how do you find comfort in tragedy? I don't know.

You know when should a believer marry an unbeliever,. I don't know he doesn't know anything. Okay, then he goes on to say we deal every week with someone whose child got killed or they lost their job.

I don't understand it. All you can do is let God comfort you and move on. Part of faith is not understanding. Is that true? Why would you disagree with that Brian it's brilliant, so how would you correct part of faith is not understanding?

How would you correct that? Okay, can we just sit can we just answer that first? How would you correct that last sentence that doesn't help me though because it says. Part of faith is not understanding.

So what is part of faith? How about? How about just faith is what trusting? Yeah, we trust Christ. We we don't. I mean whoever said that we would understand everything. Nobody, but. You know God is good and does good, right?

So that's that's a separate issue altogether. Okay, John. Okay. Because he did say it. Okay, number 31 true or false without bad news there is no good news. Sadly, it's true. Well because. Yeah, I mean wouldn't it wouldn't be nice if there were no bad news.

Yeah. Yeah before sin. Before sin existed. Okay. Because he does not face the bad news. Osteen does not really have any good news to paraphrase Jesus description of his generation in Luke 7 31 35. Osteen's message.

Teaches us to sing neither the blues nor the triumphant anthem. It's more like a steady droning upbeat hum that we hear on the elevator or at the mall. Keeping everything light and then disturbed. The best news that Osteen has for us in these books is that by following these seven steps?

He has been given good parking spaces the best seat in a restaurant. And an unexpected upgrade to first-class on the plane, which I had on my trip down to North Carolina. Whoo, but the gospel tells us that God has taken Taken all the steps down to us.

Saying that saving us not from the discomfort or the ills that are common to humanity in this present age. But from the penalty of sin and death. Okay, don't think he doesn't because I'm sure you're pretty sure he does so we can grasp.

Okay, so chapter number four quiz. Everybody have one of those chapter number four quiz they didn't mourn because They thought they were okay. I think they're gonna be bringing stuff in for the next hour and a half or something.

I can't wait to see what the Building is gonna look like must be packed. Okay. Quiz for Chapter 4 quiz number one true or false. It is possible for pagans to do the right thing. Okay, Brian says false.

Why do you say false Brian? Okay, we're following or we're defining do the right thing in the Spike Lee sense. Gordon says there are plenty of non-christian families who actually do a better job at Doing the right thing than some Christian families.

Pastor Mike says that right you're gonna have a happy marriage apart from Christ. You can have good kids. Apart from Christ. You can have a nice lawn. Okay, number two. Why should we not conflate religion and ethics?

Because then we'd have ethics. Yes, Brian. That's an interesting Observation, okay. Well, it's not a bad one but I think you know that doesn't really I mean if we if I boil Christianity to yeah, then then your your standard fails, so.

Sorry, Brian. It was a good thought though Horton if religion is basically ethics getting people to do the right thing. Then why get uptight over the different historical forms doctrines rituals and practices?

That distinguish one version in other words one religion of morality from another let a thousand flowers bloom as long as people are being helped right and What is that? What's the idea that it doesn't really matter?

What religion it is as long as it's some kind of religion and it helps people get along and Act more kindly toward one another. Well, what is that? What would we call that attitude or that philosophy?

Moralism. Yeah, I'd go for that. I mean that basically it's Liberalism, I mean like when he starts talking about McLaren and And McLaren says, you know, the Great Commission isn't necessarily about making Christians Right.

It's just about making people more moral. So that that would be liberalism. Let's get people to do the right thing and it doesn't matter why they're doing it. Then Christianity is not special. And he says reduce Christianity to good advice and it blends perfectly with the culture of life coaching.

It might seem. I mean, you know We've got the pyramid of success in Pastor Mike's office. Which he tries to introduce into every sermon do your best when your best is needed. It might seem relevant. But is actually lost in the marketplace of moralistic therapies.

One can lose weight stop smoking improve one's marriage and become a nicer person without Jesus. Which is why a lot of people say what I? Don't need Jesus if His only purpose is to help me have a better life.

I like my life now. I'm nice to people. I'm not overweight. I don't smoke. I have a good marriage and I'm a nice person. People like me. And what distinguishes Christianity at its heart is not its moral core code.

But its story a story of a creator who although rejected by those he came or those he created in his image Stooped to reconcile them to himself through his son. So, you know when you take take Jesus out of the equation.

What kind of Christianity you have left you don't really have one. You have a moral system. Okay number three is Try harder an imperative or an indicative. And why does it matter? Brian try harder than a printer room dick.

Okay Horton says another way of talking about the difference between law and gospel is the distinction distinction in the Greek language. Between the imperative and indicative moods and indicative tells us what is in fact the case.

For example, the cat is on the mat or the cat is wearing a hat. Oh, sorry. An imperative tells us to do something put the cat in the hat. Try harder is an imperative not an indicative. The mood itself easily discerned the Greek Tells us that it is law rather than gospel.

It's something to do rather than something that is done. Horton says I do indeed need to try harder. That's not in dispute. The question is whether exhortations to try harder and even specific tips on how to do that.

Hold any possibility of driving me to anything but spiritual death apart from the gospel. In other words, is there any good news in try harder and the answer is no. Now as we go back to God's Word with the distinction between law and gospel in mind We can accept the full force of his moral will without trying to water it down.

We do not love God and our neighbors as God expects. Therefore we are not just failing to be all that we can be and missing out on God's best for our life. But we are condemned as transgressors of God's holy will goes on to say our righteousness is filthy rags.

Through the gospel. However, the Spirit clothes us with Christ's righteousness. Justification and renews us regeneration. Conforming us daily to the image of Christ sanctification all along the way the law tells me what God requires.

But only the gospel brings salvation. From both from the laws just sentence and the dominion of sin and death. So try harder do better. Not helpful thoughts questions concerns. Number four define the difference between law and gospel.

Okay, do and done. I like that. Everything in the Bible that reveals God's moral expectations is Law and everything in the Bible that reveals God's saving purposes and acts is Gospel. Not everything in God's Word is gospel.

Therefore. There are a lot of exhortations commands and imperatives they are to be followed. However, they are not the gospel so Do and done that's good. Number five. What does the law of God do for us?

Okay shows us who God is and what he requires. Okay shows us our need for him. Yeah, the law gives us the gospel. Yeah. Yeah, okay, but I think you're conflating two things here is. Everything that's in God's Word.

God's law. You just said it was. I think you just self-obliterated. We haven't had one of those for a while. All right. Thanks, Brian. Okay, Horton says not everything that we need is gospel we also need to be directed.

I Mean. What if I told you that all you need is the gospel then what? What's it? Is there any danger to that if I instead of not everything that we need is gospel? I said all we need is gospel. There's no bad news.

So there's no good news. Okay. Okay, which would be what what's the purpose of? As a guide as a continual reminder and reminder or as a means of Sanctification. Yeah. We need to know God's commands so that we come clean.

Acknowledge our sins and flee to Christ and also so they can direct us. God's commands can direct us in grateful obedience. When it comes to doing something we are answering the law works. When it comes to believing what he has done for us by Christ, we are answering the gospel and that's faith.

Confused with faith as the means of inheriting God's gift our good works become the most offensive sins against God. But when faith alone receives the gift it immediately yields the fruit of righteousness.

What does he mean when he says? Confused with faith as the means of inheriting God's gift our good works become the most offensive sins against God. Okay. Good morning, Ben. Do you have a quiz? Yeah, you're fired.

Oh, it's so harsh Saturday mornings told you guys before you know in Greek class doctor. Yeah, dr. Farnell. You know, it'd be like because it started at 7 30 in the morning. Hey like this class does but it went for two hours.

And you know somebody would get up and go to the bathroom and as they're leaving the room he'd go. Was this something I said, you know like that. Like they were just leaving forever or something or or he'd say Remember men caffeine is a mild diuretic so Biblical wisdom of David Farnell, okay.

The Law as a Killer, Not a Sanctifier

Number six true or false. We cannot know what Jesus would do in many situations. We cannot know what Jesus would do in many situations. Well, we know he would obey the law, right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, it's a valid valid question.

Dave I've got my eye on you. We cannot know what Jesus would do in many situations. I Mean, we're we're talking about ethical situations here. French fries and onion rings. Yeah, I Mean I had an unethical burger last week, but that's that's another story.

The question is too ambiguous. Go sure go after me. I'm just a flawed vessel. Okay? I it's true, right? We can't you know, so Here's what we should do. Let's all take off our what would Jesus do bracelets and throw him into a fire?

So We we can't know what he would do in many situations, but there are some situations. We can know what he'd do, right? I mean, you know the most obvious thing Jesus would just love and affirm people who are Trans how do we know that Bible doesn't even address that?

Okay. But I mean you'll hear things like that what Jesus just loved everybody, you know indiscriminately without regard to whatever, you know, he hung out with the prostitutes and the sinners. Okay. Yeah, I don't remember him saying you know, oh you have to go and You know take care of one of your clients, okay, well that's fine you're crazy.

Horton says it is amazing what a lot of Christians including many pastors seem absolutely certain about and What their regard up as up in the air, by the way, I listened to talking about trans I listened to a pastor maybe ten days ago say essentially that we as Christians And Should go to them like Jesus went to the sinners and tax gatherers and I'm like The sense in which he meant it.

I I can't go for you know, because what you know non-judgmental and And and I think that's all rubbish. What what do we what what should we do with anybody? Well, you're the sinner and Okay. It's amazing what a lot of Christians couldn't seem absolutely certain about and what it what they regard is up in the air.

Although it is not a single passage. There's not a single passage in the Bible That tells us what Jesus would do in a whole host of personal and social issues of morality economics politics and law. Like there's one, you know, Jesus would not only be against abortion, but he would be, you know supportive of single moms right.

He would take care of the kids from cradle to grave he would Take from the wealthy and give to the poor he would. Well, Jesus was a socialist. We just We we have to acknowledge that we often hear now anybody familiar with this word and The only reason I know it is because I learned in high school and never forgot it.

But we often hear confident germ Jeremiah's. You know what that is? Yes, and It's different than Jersey maids. It's a speech. Kind of a yeah that and assertions by the same people who expect ambiguity.

Disguises humility about matters clearly addressed and treat matters of great importance in Scripture in other words. You know, they they have the exact wrong view of Scripture. I mean when you talk to people who are liberal Christians, you will often hear them Introduce their politics into Jesus and you just go where did where do we where do we find that?

You know Jesus would tell you to sell all that you have and give to the poor. Would he? Is that true? He did tell one person that so then therefore we should take that and apply it to everybody. He also told you know one person To come back from the dead.

Does that mean everybody should come back from the dead? Yeah, but I mean instantaneously. I do. I do. I'm not a Sadducee. Yeah, okay number seven. What does Horton say is our native religion? Pelagianism.

I was reminded of that yesterday a lady I've never met who May well have been a Christian. I you know, it's hard when you go south of the Mason-Dixon line to figure out who's a Christian who's not. It's harder than it is up here where people proudly wear their atheism on their sleeve but you know in the south you can be a churchgoing person every week and not a Christian so.

But she died yesterday and her daughter posted on Facebook. That her mom had done what? Received her wings. I was like, you know, where do we get ideas like that? Where as a society where do ideas like that come from?

It's a wonderful life. Yeah, sure a little Jimmy Stewart, you know theology never hurt anybody. Yeah, I mean where does that idea come from and I think it's it's basically this Pelagianism if the idea is that people are inherently good right and and throughout this life.

Basically whatever negative things are sort of burned off kind of like purgatory only in real real time. Then it would be logical to think well. Once they died and they get it some kind of promotion so they get wings.

That's fine. Red Bull commercial is another option. Yeah. It'll give you wings. Wow just by getting a drink I get wings. Okay, so. Yeah, that's that's a number eight true or false. We should work to establish peace and justice here and now right here.

Yes, and we should preach the gospel false says another. Well, you know, I I think there's a problem anytime we try to add to a question. Brian, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna say I agree with your answer Brian, and I'm still gonna mark you wrong.

Well, I mean just take that sentence in isolation. We should work to establish peace and justice here and now. Why would we be in favor of that? Why would we? Okay. But realistically, what are we really doing moralism?

I mean, this is just liberalism again. We should work to establish peace and justice here and now. No, no, why because It's like here. Here's what I would say. How about this? How about if I change it to this?

We should work on removing sand from the seashore. Okay, and we should work to establish peace and justice here and now. Impossible impossible. Impossible my my platform by the way was war and injustice.

So I'm just saying I'm here to declare war on Paxton and announce that we. Let me go back to what I said a moment ago. Because I know. You're adding to the question. We Christians should work to establish peace and justice here and now now is it wrong?

To want peace and justice. No. But you know, I mean and you know, is it wrong to vote for? Candidates that are going to establish or keep us out of war. I mean, I'm I'm fully in favor of that, right? We should have less war.

Well, no war was last time there was no war in the world it's been. Yeah, it's been a while Dave so I mean, you know, I Here's what I would always say to the what would Jesus do bracelets? What would Jesus do?

Everything perfectly all the time. Does that help you what would Jesus do everything perfectly all the time? Okay. So right now all I need to do is Everything perfectly all the time. Okay. Yeah, I feel better now.

And I think that's probably true that's you know, they need to understand the bad news which most people don't really get you know which is why. Because our natural position as we said a moment ago. Our native religion is Pelagian ism.

We think we're good and and basically people think they're good because they and He goes on to say things like, you know, they they grade themselves on the curve everybody likes, you know. They're they're really easy graders when it comes to themselves.

Okay, so for McLaren the frame of reference is global warming poverty AIDS and Capitalist greed in many ways mirroring the religious rights. In other words the opposite. Religious rights confusion of Christ's kingdom of grace.

With his coming and glory in the latter with the triumph of a particular agenda always are already defined by a political party the emerging Religious left seems just as prone to enlist Jesus as a mascot for our own programs of national and global redemption.

McLaren speaks of salvation primarily in terms of peace and justice here and now in Both cases it is up to us to bring about this salvation. Which in some sense Christ is made possible by planting a seed in us all when we define the gospel as God's invitation to everyone to Quote turn from his or her current path and follow a new way.

We are confusing law and gospel the command to follow Christ with the announcement from heaven that he has defeated death Condemnation and sins tyranny and will come again in power and glory first to judge and then to make all things new that's the gospel, so We ought not to confuse law and gospel again, okay?

Why Preachers Must Proclaim the Gospel Often

Number nine. When should preachers exhort believers to love and good works? Okay, that would be one time or After He says only after once again preaching Christ in him crucified would Paul turn to the practical exhortation to live in light of their high calling in Christ in other words Gospel and then remind them that this is why they're you know because you're saved.

This is how you should live. Number ten. Why is it important for Christians to hear the gospel often, okay? Because we often revert to our natural Pelagianism. He says the question for us all is whether we believe the church is the place where the gospel is regularly Proclaimed and ratified to Christians as well as non-christians like many emergent church leaders.

Kimball Invokes a famous line from Francis of Assisi that I also heard growing up in conservative evangelicalism. What is it? Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary. Kimball goes on to say our lives will preach better than anything we can say if so.

Then this is just more bad news. Not only because of this is of this. The statistics we've already seen which evidence no real difference between Christians and non-christians. But because despite my best intentions I am NOT an exemplary creature and if Michael Horton's not an exemplary creature then certainly Brian Bartlett, it's not even so oh, sorry.

Yes, you may. Yeah, yeah, no.

No, but there's a number of reasons why it's not a thing why why it isn't the emergent church. Okay, well what happened to the emergent church borderline charismatic. But is that really surprising that the emergent church, you know just became Universalists or flat-out liberals.

I mean, I I would say, you know that the emergent church was kind of like Trying to trying to take reform doctrine in kind of a LSD direction. I mean it was just like, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's cool, man, but try some more of these.

It was it was a train wreck waiting to happen, right? So I I mean it's not. It really shouldn't be that surprising when we look at these these people now and see where they are. And we just kind of like, you know, it's like, you know, the the afterword and some of those old movies, you know.

So-and-so went on to did it. I mean would it would it surprise you if you could see a movie from 20 years ago? And then then it said, you know, Mark Driscoll went on to you know, be the feature of a Christianity Today podcast that went on for a year, you know exposing all of his Sins and now he's in Arizona trying to make a comeback in some kind of pseudo charismatic Whack-out deal and the answer is no that wouldn't surprise me what it surprised me that you know McLaren is now, you know a barista at some Starbuck.

No, that wouldn't surprise me at all, you know. None of those things are surprising because that's that was the trajectory they were on now and it just sort of makes sense. It wasn't like they were. You know heading for a more complicated truth they were heading for Destruction.

He says The best doctrines will not relieve me at the battle of within dwelling sin until I draw my last breath in other words. You know, there's just the battle for sin is ongoing. Says find me on my best day especially if you have access to my hidden motives thoughts and attitudes and I will always provide fodder for the hypocrisy charge that Will let down those who would become Christians because they think I and my fellow Christians are the gospel.

I'm a Christian not because I think that I can walk in Jesus footsteps. But because he is the only one who can carry me. I Am NOT the gospel. Jesus Christ alone is the gospel. His story saves me. Not only by bringing me justification by baptizing me into his but by baptizing me into his resurrection life.

It's why I really kind of I Tried to discourage when people are getting baptized from I Think it's fine to you know mention how Christ impacted you. I think the problem is some people want to talk more about themselves than about the gospel itself.

The Bible as a Christ-Centered Drama, Not a Moral Manual

Number 11. Why does Horton say? Quote the worst thing that can happen to the church is to confuse law and gospel. Okay, we lose the core of Well at the core of Christianity or maybe we can even say the distinctiveness of Christianity, right?

Okay, you're not fulfilling the mandate of the church. I would agree with that, right? Because how can you make disciples if you're giving them gospel a word that we all know? Well, we should know. Horton says the worst thing that can happen to the church is to confuse along gospel when we soften the law we never give up on our own attempts to offer our Rags of righteousness to God when we turn the gospel into demands.

It is no longer the saving word of redemption in Jesus Christ alone. And this by the way is why I have a problem with some people who it seems like their entire ministry Is to make sure that you doubt your salvation, right?

I mean I I can remember being in seminary and hearing a sermon and just thinking man. That was really good. It was by one of the students there and I said when we when he got done We could all walk under the door.

We didn't need to open it. Let the reader understand. I you know what I Mean, I find him interesting sometimes. I think his testimony is really good but I have a hard time listening to you know, I Mean we were in Florida earlier this year and I think he had an hour slot and he went for like an hour and 20 minutes.

I always have a problem with that. I mean it makes me antsy when I'm at a at a conference and somebody's going way over and I'm just like Because I could just imagine being the next speaker, you know and going.

Okay. There goes that part you know, I mean it's just kind of. Especially when you get it's rude and thoughtless, but it's like you can hear the plane coming in and Then it goes. Oh fooled you and then the plane comes in again.

Oh, no, not done yet. No. No, no, he probably did that like four or five times while we're down there in Fort Myers just like Okay, and this thing will ya? Um. Okay, according to the scriptures there are two ways of inheriting God's blessings.

After the fall God's everlasting blessings can only be secured by the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ this promise to provide a Savior was a unilateral pledge to Adam and Eve after the fall. But if we went to Genesis 3, we'd also see God say something like if you guys are willing.

This is what this is what will happen. Oh Wait, no, he didn't say. To Abraham and Sarah and to David it also appears in the New Covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31 and elsewhere. Then there were the temporal land promises that God made to Israel.

Based on the nation's pledge. I like this one all this we will do. People all this we will do we will obey the law. It's pretty it reminds me of a Line from the old true grit Glen Campbell says that's pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man.

You know. All this we will do that's pretty bold talk for a one-eyed fat man. We'll obey the law, okay, buddy. Number 12 true or false doing the gospel is a confusion of categories. True. Any form of doing the cost the gospel Horton writes is a confusion of categories.

The law tells us what to do. The gospel tells us what God has done for us in Christ. When it comes to the question about how we relate to God doing. Doing is the wrong answer. Paul explains now to the one who works his wages are not counted as a gift, but his due as.

And to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith is Canada's righteousness. That's Romans 4 4 and 5. It is not just some deeds on our part that are excluded here, but our works of any kind.

And. Then he goes on to cite Romans 11 6. But if it is by grace is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace. Unmerited or demerited favor. Not because we've earned something.

Principles for living home, and I just had a view in my head like sometimes we want God to treat us like we treat dogs. You know what a good boy. You know etc. It said no no that's not. That's not it's not how he treats us.

Principles for living. Practical advice. Secrets of victorious living calls to discipleship and instruction all fall under the category of law. Whether they are offered sternly or gently. Even if we get up in the pulpit and say you know with a big smile on our face.

Can I just give you some advice? As soon as you hear that you can you can know that I've crossed over from gospel into Law and is that always wrong? No. Number 13 true or false law and gospel are inherently opposed.

So do you want to give it a flu? Okay with regard to salvation. They're inherently Opposed. Okay, okay, well, let's hear the full quote. So law and gospel are not inherently opposed. But when it comes to how we are saved.

Those two principles could not be more antithetical. Yeah explanation priests. So what we used to get was that Dick Tracy and The Japanese guy would go explanation priests. Okay. Says and since our faith in every moment is threatened by our natural tendency to be distracted from its object Christ we need the gospel.

Placarded before us not just at the beginning, but throughout the Christian life. The gospel is for Christians, too so Law and gospel are not inherently opposed. So we could say false. But when it comes to how we are saved they could not be more antithetical.

Untangle that not for us mr.. Dave, okay. Questions concerns comments the law is good when it is used rightly. That's Paul wrote okay number 14 true or false the law is a killer. The law is good. But I am NOT.

Paul reminds us in Romans 7. It is the abiding standard of God's perfect holiness and the revelation of his holy will for our lives first of all it comes to kill us. Not to approve us, but to end our life in Adam.

Exposing us for what we really are. He says the very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. So the law is a killer. It's a silent killer. Slips in through the back door. Okay, yeah, would you how would I said the former?

I think it's good. Just because it's inherently morally good. Yeah, be open to reading your essay on the other one. Okay, true or false. The law makes us hypocrites, and you know this is why I mean Horton has said this on a few occasions prior to this.

But and we know this this is why you know. If we stand accused of hypocrisy we are guilty and Horton cites Romans 7 which is a Great place to go right as Paul says in Romans 7 he now loves the law even when he disobeys it.

Non-christians do not recognize themselves and Paul's struggle in Romans 7 and I agree with that I think. Right you know there's a great big debate. What is Romans 7 about. And I think it is Paul as As a believer.