Christless Christianity - [Chapter 4]

Father in heaven, thank you for this morning. Thank you for this opportunity to gather together with these men To examine really the state of Evangelicalism today.

I pray that you'd Bless and strengthen us That you'd cause us to to think more carefully to examine

Things around us more cautiously And father to just embrace that which is true in Jesus name we pray amen

All right, so we left off at number 29. I believe in last week's quiz

Last week's quiz last week I was somebody said well actually I think Brian asked me and I'm like, yeah,

I'm actually in, North Carolina so no, we won't be meeting besides that was Memorial Day weekend, etc, but And Yeah Number 29 is true to her false.

We can never examine ourselves sufficiently Brian says true Never endless quest to examine ourselves.

I Put false and I'm gonna tell you why Horton says if you want to sin you can sin

I Sin all I want to he says the good news is that I don't want to stop dwelling on everything

That's wrong with you and take an inventory of what and Taking an inventory of what you're not the scripture says in Hebrews to look away from everything that distracts

So he's quoting Osteen here then he says

Joel Osteen and then he says once again Osteen misquotes the Bible to make his points

Hebrews 12 1 2 2 actually reads and Therefore since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us

Let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin in which Which so easily entangles us and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

Fixing our eyes on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith Who for the joy set before him endured the cross despising the shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God?

In other words the counsel in Hebrews is to look away from ourselves both our sins and our good works and not let anything distract us from Christ either for our

Well, I mean it you know Because what's your your reflex was to think what?

Well 2nd Corinthians 13 5 right examine yourself. See if you're in the faith and so Which is often taken out of context, but his point is if we're looking at ourselves whether it's for good or for ill

We've got the wrong object of our study our focus needs to be on Christ the author and perfecter of our faith right now.

You could say well What about 2nd Corinthians 13 5 what about it? I mean is it wrong?

You know to think man the way. I think the way I live how could I even be saved is that wrong?

No to an extent But again think about that question the way.

I live the way. I think the way I act could I even be saved Is there something wrong with that?

Me me me me me me me. I mean what what kind of what kind of 2nd Corinthians 13 5 tests would that be where?

I just thought Yeah Yeah I'm doing pretty well

I Examine yourself see if you're even in the faith. Yes. I am because I do things that other people don't

I mean compare me to that Tax -gatherer I'm looking pretty good thoughts questions concerns

Right it, but but I think on the other side you have to look at it this way Yeah, Brian Okay Okay, but but you know getting back to the never -ending thing

If I'm constantly looking to my performance for assurance of my salvation then what

I have no assurance of salvation Okay overruled

Nice nice try though nice nice try Dave You know you're never gonna beat that there although wait a minute the highlighter was defeated once so yeah or twice maybe

I Don't know Brian. I'll have to check the check the tapes

Or Joe Heafis I've heard of both ways Okay number 30 true or false when tragedy strikes let

God comfort you and move on Which should be disconcerting it doesn't sound horrible, but it does sound like something

Joel Osteen would say And let's see what the highlighter says False yeah, it says false

Osteen was asked why there is suffering although. He is correct that we cannot solve this

Dilemma philosophically he offered no suggestion that it is solved in historical terms by Christ's resurrection as the first fruits of the new creation

Here's Osteen the answer I get or the answer is I don't know well, that's pretty much.

I mean you know That's his standard. I don't know who goes to heaven.

I don't know Are there more ways to heaven than one I don't know how do you find comfort in tragedy?

I don't know You know when should a believer marry an unbeliever,

I don't know he doesn't know anything Okay They he goes on to say we deal every week with someone whose child got killed or they lost their job

I don't understand it all you can do is let God comfort you and move on Part of faith is not understanding is that true?

Why would you disagree with that Brian? It's brilliant, so how would you correct part of faith is not understanding?

How would you correct that? Okay, can we just it can we just answer that first, how would you correct that last sentence?

That doesn't help me though because it says Part of faith is not understanding. So what is part of faith?

How about how about just faith is what? Trusting yeah, we trust

Christ. We we don't I mean whoever said That we would understand everything

Nobody but You know God is good and does good, right?

So that's that's a separate issue altogether Okay, John Okay Because he did say it

Okay number 31 true or false without bad news there is no good news Sadly it's true

Well, because yeah, I mean wouldn't it wouldn't be nice if there were no bad news

Yeah before sin Before sin existed Okay Because he does not face the bad news

Osteen does not really have any good news to paraphrase Jesus description of his generation in Luke 7 31 to 35

Osteen's message teaches us to sing neither the blues nor the triumphant anthem

It's more like a steady droning upbeat Hum that we hear on the elevator or at the mall

Keeping everything light and undisturbed The best news that Osteen has for us in these books is that by following these seven steps?

He has been given good parking spaces the best seat in a restaurant And an unexpected upgrade to first -class on the plane, which

I had on my trip down to North Carolina Whoo But the gospel tells us that God has taken

Taken all the steps down to us Saying that saving us not from the discomfort or the ills that are common to humanity in this present age

But from the penalty of sin and death well don't think he doesn't because I'm sure you're pretty sure he does

So we can grasp Okay, so chapter number four quiz everybody have one of those chapter number four quiz

They didn't mourn because They thought they were okay. I think they're gonna be bringing stuff in for the next hour and a half or something

I can't wait to see what the He's gonna look like must be packed

Okay quiz for chapter four quiz Number one true or false it is possible for pagans to do the right thing

Okay, Brian says false. Why do you say false Brian? Okay?

Okay, we're following or we're defining do the right thing in the Spike Lee sense

Horton says there are plenty of non -christian families who actually do a better job at Doing the right thing than some

Christian families pastor Mike says that right you can have a happy marriage apart from Christ You can have good kids

Apart from Christ you can have a nice lawn More likely okay number two

Why should we not conflate religion and ethics? Because then we'd have rethics.

Yes, Brian Hmm that's an interesting

Observation, okay. Well, it's not a bad one but I think you know that doesn't really

I mean if we if I boil Christianity to yeah, then then your your

Standard fails, so Sorry, Brian. It was a good thought though Horton if religion is basically ethics getting people to do the right thing then why get uptight over the different historical forms doctrines rituals and practices that distinguish one version in other words one religion of morality from another

Let a thousand flowers bloom as long as people are being helped right and what is that?

What's the idea that it doesn't really matter? what religion it is as long as it's some kind of religion, and it helps people get along and Act more kindly toward one another well.

What is that? What would we call that attitude or that philosophy? Moralism yeah,

I'd go for that. I mean it basically it's Liberalism I mean like when he starts talking about McLaren and And and McLaren says you know the

Great Commission isn't necessarily about making Christians Right it's just about making people more moral so that that would be liberalism

Let's get people to do the right thing and it doesn't matter why they're doing it Then Christianity is not special And he says reduce

Christianity to good advice, and it blends perfectly with the culture of life coaching it might seem

I mean you know We've got the pyramid of success in Pastor Mike's office Which he tries to introduce into every sermon do your best when your best is needed

It might seem relevant, but is actually lost in the marketplace of moralistic therapies one can lose weight

Stop smoking improve one's marriage and become a nicer person without Jesus Which is why a lot of people say what

I? I Don't need Jesus if his only purpose is to help me have a better life.

I like my life now I'm nice to people. I'm not overweight. I don't smoke.

I have a good marriage and I'm a nice person people like me

What distinguishes Christianity at its heart is not its moral code But its story a story of a creator who although rejected by those he came or those he created in his image

Stooped to reconcile them to himself through his son So you know when you take take

Jesus out of the equation? What kind of Christianity you have left you don't really have one

You have a moral system okay number three is Try harder an imperative or an indicative, and why does it matter

Brian? Okay Horton says another way of talking about the difference between law and gospel is the distinction distinction in the

Greek language between the imperative and indicative moods and Indicative tells us.

What is in fact the case? For example the cat is on the mat or the cat is wearing a hat.

Oh, sorry An imperative tells us to do something put the cat in the hat

Try harder is an imperative not an indicative the mood itself easily discerned the

Greek Tells us that it is law rather than gospel It's something to do rather than something that is done

Horton says I do indeed need to try harder That's not in dispute the question is whether exhortations to try harder and even specific tips on how to do that Hold any possibility of driving me to anything but spiritual death apart from the gospel

In other words is there any good news in try harder and the answer is no

Now as we go back to God's Word with the distinction between law and gospel in mind we can Accept the full force of his moral will without trying to water it down We do not love

God and our neighbors as God expects Therefore we are not just failing to be all that we can be and missing out on God's best for our life

But we are condemned as transgressors of God's holy will it was not to say our righteousness is filthy rags

Through the gospel however the Spirit clothes us with Christ's righteousness

Justification and renews us regeneration Conforming us daily to the image of Christ sanctification all along the way the law tells me what

God requires But only the gospel brings salvation From both from the laws just sentence and the dominion of sin and death so try harder do better not helpful thoughts questions concerns

Number four define the difference between law and gospel Okay, do and done.

I like that Everything in the Bible that reveals God's moral expectations is

Law and everything in the Bible that reveals God's saving purposes and acts is

Gospel Not everything in God's Word is gospel therefore there are a lot of exhortations commands and imperatives they are to be followed however they are not the gospel so Do and done that's good

Number five what does the law of God do for us? Brian okay

Shows us who God is and what he requires Okay, shows us our need for him.

Yeah, wait

The law gives us the gospel Yeah, yeah

Okay, but I think you're conflating two things here is Everything that's in God's Word God's law

But you just said it was I think you just self -obliterated.

We haven't had one of those for a while all right Thanks Brian Okay Horton says not everything that we need is gospel.

We also need to be directed I Mean What if I told you that all you need is the gospel then what?

What's it is there any danger to that if I instead of not everything that we need is gospel? I said all we need is gospel

There's no bad news, so there's no good news, okay, okay, which would be what what's the purpose of as a guide as a continual reminder or as a means of Sanctification yeah

We need to know God's commands so that we come clean Acknowledge our sins and flee to Christ and also so they can direct us

God's commands can direct us in grateful obedience When it comes to doing something we are answering the law works

When it comes to believing what he has done for us by Christ. We are answering the gospel and that's faith

Confused with faith as the means of inheriting God's gift our good works become the most offensive sins against God But when faith alone receives the gift it immediately yields the fruit of righteousness

What does he mean when he says Confused with faith as the means of inheriting

God's gift our good works become the most offensive sins against God Okay Good morning,

Ben. Do you have a quiz? Yeah, you're fired.

Oh, it's so harsh Saturday mornings told you guys before you know in Greek class doctor

Yeah, dr. Farnell You know it'd be like because it started at 730 in the morning.

Hey like this class does but it went for two hours And you know somebody would get up and go to the bathroom and as they're leaving the room he'd go

Was this something I said you know like that Like they were just leaving forever or something or or he'd say

Remember men caffeine is a mild diuretic so the biblical wisdom of David Farnell Okay Confusing number six true or false

We cannot know what Jesus would do in many situations Okay, we cannot know what

Jesus would do in many situations. Well. We know he would obey the law right yeah, absolutely

Okay, and it's a valid valid question

Dave I've got my eye on you We cannot know what

Jesus would do in many situations. I Mean we're we're talking about ethical situations here french fries and onion rings

Yeah, I Mean I had an unethical burger last week, but that's that's another story the question is too ambiguous

Mm -hmm go sure go after me. I'm just a flawed vessel, okay

I It's true right we can't you know so Here's what we should do

Let's all take off our what would Jesus do bracelets and throw them into a fire, so We we can't know what he would do in many situations, but there are some situations.

We can know what he'd do right I Mean you know the most obvious thing

Jesus would just love and affirm people who are Trans how do we know that Bible doesn't even address that?

But I mean you'll hear things like that what Jesus just loved everybody you know indiscriminately without regard to whatever you know he hung out with the prostitutes and the sinners

Okay, yeah, I don't remember him saying

You know oh you have to go and You know take care of one of your clients, okay, and that's fine.

We're crazy Horton says it is amazing what a lot of Christians including many pastors seem absolutely certain about and What their regard up as up in the air by the way

I listened to talking about trans. I listened to a pastor Maybe ten days ago say essentially that We as Christians And Should go to them like Jesus went to the sinners and tax -gatherers like The sense in which he meant it

I I can't go for you know because what you know non -judgmental and And and I think that's all rubbish.

What what do we what what should we do with anybody? Well? You're the sinner Okay It's amazing what a lot of Christians couldn't seem absolutely certain about and what it what they regard is up in the air although it

Is not a single passage There's not a single passage in the Bible That tells us what Jesus would do in a whole host of personal and social issues of morality economics politics and law

Like there's one you know Jesus would not only be against abortion, but he would be you know supportive of single moms

Right He would take care of the kids from cradle to grave he would

Take from the wealthy and give to the poor he would Well Jesus was a socialist.

We just We have to acknowledge that We often hear now anybody familiar with this word

The only reason I know it is because I learned in high school and never forgot it We often hear confident germ

Jeremiads you know what that is yes

And it's different than Jersey maids It's a speech

Kind of a yeah that and assertions by the same people who expect ambiguity

Disguises humility about matters clearly addressed and treat matters of great importance in scripture in other words

You know they they have the exact wrong view of scripture I mean when you talk to people who are liberal

Christians you will often hear them Introduce their politics into Jesus, and you just go where did where do we find that you know?

Jesus would tell you to sell all that you have and give to the poor Would he? Is that true?

He did tell one person that so then therefore we should take that and apply it to everybody He also told you know one person

To come back from the dead does that mean everybody should come back from the dead Yeah, but I mean instantaneously

I do I Do I'm not a sad you see

Yeah, okay number seven what does Horton say is our native religion

Pelagianism I was reminded of that yesterday a lady.

I've never met who May well have been a Christian I you know it's hard when he goes south of the

Mason -Dixon line to figure out who's a Christian who's not It's harder than it is up here where people proudly wear their atheism on their sleeve but you know in the south you can be a churchgoing person every week and not a

Christian so But she died yesterday and her daughter posted on Facebook That her mom had done what?

Received her wings I Was like you know where do we get ideas like that?

Where as a society where do ideas like that come from It's a wonderful life.

Yeah, sure a little Jimmy Stewart. You know theology never hurt anybody

Yeah, I mean where does that idea come from and I think it's it's basically this Pelagianism if the idea is that people are

Inherently good right and and throughout this life Basically whatever negative things are sort of burned off kind of like purgatory only in real real time

Then it would be logical to think well Once they died and they get it some kind of promotion, so they get wings.

That's fine Red Bull commercial is another option. Yeah It'll give you wings

Wow just by getting a drink. I get wings okay, so Yeah, that's that's another one number eight true or false

We should work to establish peace and justice here and now Right here

Yes, and we should preach the gospel false says another Well, you know

I I think there's a problem anytime we try to add to a question Brian Okay, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna say I agree with your answer Brian, and I'm still gonna mark you wrong Well, I mean just take that sentence in isolation

We should work to establish peace and justice here and now Why would we be in favor of that?

Why would we? Okay, but realistically. What are we really doing moralism?

This is just liberalism again We should work to establish peace and justice here and now

No No, why because?

It's like here. Here's what I would say how about this how about if I change it to this we should work on removing sand from the seashore

Okay, and we should work to establish peace and justice here and now impossible

Impossible Impossible my my platform by the way was war and injustice, so I'm just saying

I'm here to declare war on Paxton and announce that we Let let me go back to what

I said a moment ago Because I know You're adding to the question

We Christians should work to establish peace and justice here now now is it wrong? To want peace and justice

No But you know

I mean, and you know is it wrong to vote for Candidates that are going to establish or keep us out of war.

I mean, I'm I'm fully in favor of that right We should have less war

Well no war was last time there was no war in the world it's been Yeah, it's been a while Dave, so I mean you know

I Here's what I would always say to the what would Jesus do bracelets, what would

Jesus do? Everything perfectly all the time Does that help you what would

Jesus do everything perfectly all the time okay, so right now all I need to do is Everything perfectly all the time okay.

Yeah, I feel better now I Think that's probably true.

That's you know they need to understand the bad news Which most people don't really get you know which is why?

Because our natural position as we said a moment ago our native religion is Pelagianism we think we're good and and basically people think they're good because they and He goes on to say things like you know they they grade themselves on the curve everybody likes you know they're they're really easy graders

When it comes to themselves Okay, so for McLaren the frame of reference is global warming poverty

AIDS and Capitalist greed in many ways mirroring the religious rights in other words the opposite Religious rights confusion of Christ's kingdom of grace

With his coming and glory in the latter with the triumph of a particular agenda always or already defined by a political party the emerging

Religious left seems just as prone to enlist Jesus as a mascot for our own programs of national and global redemption

McLaren speaks of salvation primarily in terms of peace and justice here and now in Both cases it is up to us to bring about this salvation

Which in some sense Christ is made possible by planting a seed in us all when we define the gospel as God's invitation to everyone to Quote turn from his or her current path and follow a new way

We are confusing law and gospel the command to follow Christ with the announcement from heaven that he has defeated death

Condemnation and sins tyranny and will come again in power and glory first to judge and then to make all things new that's the gospel, so We ought not to confuse law and gospel again, okay?

number nine When should preachers exhort believers to love and good works?

Okay, that would be one time or After He says only after once again preaching

Christ in him crucified would Paul turn to the practical Exhortation to live in light of their high calling in Christ in other words

Gospel and then remind them that this is why they're you know because you're saved.

This is how you should live Number ten why is it important for Christians to hear the gospel often, okay?

Because we often revert to our natural Pelagianism He says the question for us all is whether we believe the church is the place where the gospel is regularly

Proclaimed and ratified to Christians as well as non -christians like many emergent church leaders

Kimball Invokes a famous line from Francis of Assisi that I also heard growing up in conservative evangelicalism.

What is it? Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary Kimball goes on to say our lives will preach better than anything we can say

If so, then this is just more bad news not only because this is of this

The statistics we've already seen which evidence no real difference between Christians and non -christians

But because despite my best intentions, I am NOT an exemplary creature

And if Michael Horton's not an exemplary creature then certainly Brian Bartlett, it's not even so oh, sorry

Yes, you may Yeah Yeah No No, but there's a number of reasons why it's not a thing why why it isn't the emergent church

Okay, well what happened to the emergent church borderline charismatic

Yeah, but but is that really surprising that the emergent church, you know just became

Universalists or flat -out liberals. I mean,

I I would say, you know that the emergent church was kind of like trying to trying to take reform doctrine in kind of a

LSD direction. I mean it was just like, you know Yeah, yeah, that's cool, man, but try some more of these

It it was it was a train wreck waiting to happen, right so I I mean it's not

It really shouldn't be that surprising when we look at these these people now and see where they are

And we just kind of like, you know, it's like, you know, the the afterword and some of those old movies, you know

So and so went on to did it I mean Would it would it surprise you if you could see a movie from 20 years ago?

And then then it said, you know, Mark Driscoll went on to you know Be the feature of a

Christianity Today podcast that went on for a year, you know exposing all of his Sins, and now he's in Arizona trying to make a comeback in some kind of pseudo charismatic

Whack -out deal and the answer is no that wouldn't surprise me. What it surprised me that you know

McLaren is now, you know a barista at some Starbuck. No, that wouldn't surprise me at all, you know

And none of those things are surprising because that's that was the trajectory they were on now and it just sort of makes sense

It wasn't like they were You know heading for a more complicated truth.

They were heading for Destruction He says

The best doctrines will not relieve me of the battle of within dwelling sin until I draw my last breath in other words

You know, there's just the battle for sin is ongoing Says find me on my best day especially if you have access to my hidden motives thoughts and attitudes and I will always provide fodder for the hypocrisy charge that Will let down those who would become

Christians because they think I and my fellow Christians are the gospel I'm a

Christian not because I think that I can walk in Jesus footsteps But because he is the only one who can carry me.

I Am NOT the gospel Jesus Christ alone is the gospel his story saves me Not only by bringing me justification by baptizing me into his but by baptizing me into his resurrection life it's why

I really kind of I Tried to discourage when people are getting baptized from I Think it's fine to you know mention how

Christ impacted you I think the problem is some people want to talk more about themselves than about the gospel itself number 11

Why does Horton say? Quote the worst thing that can happen to the church is to confuse law and gospel

Okay, we lose the core of Well at the core of Christianity or maybe we can even say the distinctiveness of Christianity, right?

Okay, you're not fulfilling the mandate of the church. I would agree with that, right? Because how can you make disciples if you're giving them glossable a word that we all know?

Well, we should know Horton says the worst thing that can happen to the church is to confuse along gospel when we soften the law

We never give up on our own attempts to offer our Rags of righteousness to God when we turn the gospel into demands

It is no longer the saving word of redemption in Jesus Christ alone And this by the way is why

I have a problem with some people who it seems like their entire ministry is

To make sure that you doubt your salvation Right.

I mean I can remember being in seminary and hearing a sermon and just thinking man. That was really good

It was by one of the students there and I said when we when he got done We could all walk under the door.

We didn't need to open it. Let the reader understand.

I You know what? I Mean, I find him interesting sometimes.

I think his testimony is really good But I have a hard time listening to you know

I mean we were in Florida earlier this year and I think he had an hour slot and he went for like an hour and 20 minutes

I Always have a problem with that. I mean it makes me antsy when I'm at a at a conference and somebody's going way over and I'm just like Because I could just imagine being the next speaker, you know and going

There goes that part you know, I mean it's just kind of Especially when you get it's rude and thoughtless, but it's like you can hear the plane coming in and Then it goes.

Oh fooled you and then the plane comes in again. Oh, no, not done yet. No He probably did that like four or five times while we're down there in Fort Myers just like Okay, and this thing will ya?

Um Okay, according to the scriptures there are two ways of inheriting

God's blessings After the fall God's everlasting blessings can only be secured by the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ this promise to provide a

Savior was a unilateral pledge to Adam and Eve after the fall But if we went to Genesis 3, we'd also see

God say something like if you guys are willing This is what this is what will happen.

Oh Wait, no, he didn't say To Abraham and Sarah and to David it also appears in the

New Covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31 and elsewhere Then there were the temporal land promises that God made to Israel Based on the nation's pledge.

I like this one all this we will do The people all this we will do we will obey the law

It's pretty it reminds me of a Line from the old true grit

Glenn Campbell says that's pretty bold talk for a one -eyed fat man

You know I'd all this we will do that's pretty bold talk for a one -eyed fat man

With a little beta law, okay, buddy Number 12 true or false doing the gospel is a confusion of categories true

Any form of doing the cost the gospel Horton writes is a confusion of categories The law tells us what to do the gospel tells us what

God has done for us in Christ When it comes to the question about how we relate to God doing

Doing is the wrong answer Paul explains now to the one who works His wages are not counted as a gift, but his due as And to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly

His faith is Canada's righteousness. That's Romans 4 4 and 5 It is not just some deeds on our part that are excluded here, but our works of any kind And then he goes on to cite

Romans 11 6 But if it is by grace is no longer on the basis of works otherwise grace would no longer be grace

Unmerited or demerited favor not because we've earned something Principles for living how man

I just had a view in my head like sometimes we want

God to treat us like we treat dogs. You know what a good boy. You know it said or it said no

No, that's not that's not it's not how he treats us principles for living practical advice

Secrets of victorious living calls to discipleship and instruction all fall under the category of law

Whether they are offered sternly or gently Even if we get up in the pulpit and say you know with a big smile on our face

Can I just give you some advice? As soon as you hear that you can you can know that I've crossed over from gospel into Law and is that always wrong?

No Number 13 true or false law and gospel are inherently opposed

So do you want to give it a flu?

Okay with regard to Salvation they are inherently Opposed okay, okay, well, let's hear the full quote

So law and gospel are not inherently opposed But when it comes to how we are saved

Those two principles could not be more antithetical Yeah Explanation priests, so what we used to get was that Dick Tracy and the

Japanese guy would go explanation priests Okay Says and since our faith in every moment is threatened by our natural tendency to be distracted from its object

Christ we need the gospel Placarded before us not just at the beginning, but throughout the

Christian life the gospel is for Christians, too so Law and gospel are not inherently opposed so we could say false

But when it comes to how we are saved they could not be more antithetical Untangle that not for us mr.

Dave Okay Questions concerns comments the law is good when it is used rightly

That's Paul wrote 1st Timothy chapter 1 okay number 14 true or false the law is a killer and The law is good, but I am

NOT Paul reminds us in Romans 7 It is the abiding standard of God's perfect holiness and the revelation of his holy will for our lives first of all it comes to kill us

Not to improve us, but to end our life in Adam Exposing us for what we really are

He says the very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me

So the law is a killer It's a silent killer slips in through the back door

I would have said the former yeah,

I think it's good. Just because it's inherently morally good.

Yeah But I'd be open to reading your essay on the other one

Okay true or false The law makes us hypocrites and and you know this is why

I mean Horton has said this on a few occasions prior to this but and We know this this is why you know if we stand accused of hypocrisy.

We are guilty and Horton cites Romans 7 which is a

Great place to go right as Paul says in Romans 7 he now loves the law even when he disobeys it

Non -christians do not recognize themselves and Paul's struggle in Romans 7 and I agree with that.

I think You know there's a great big debate. What is Romans 7 about and I think it is Paul as as a believer

You know he says concerned with bad habits that might lead to obesity alcoholism

Broken relationships losing their job or disappointment with failing to reach their own personal goals Believers nevertheless do not wrestle with the paradox of their love for God.

I love God and Yet, I constantly break his moral law

He tells me to do X I do Y He says sit down.

I stand up cognitive dissonance thoughts concerns questions

Okay number 16 true or false the law sanctifies, okay, it's false.

I Wanted to say true, but it's false Horton says the law cannot sanctify any more than it could justify

Although it can no longer condemn me the law still cannot produce in me the desire to keep it

It can only tell me what God requires. It can only tell me that I'm not keeping it, right? So nice job nice job

Steve you failed again good job way to go Number 17 true or false the gospel sets us free from the law of God The law sets us free from the law or the gospel sets us free from from the law of God Kill us what's that?

Well, let's see what Horton says In my experience by the way the ant the highlighter says false

The blessed highlighter may it rest in peace

Horton says in my experience. This is where a lot of Christians are living today Not quite accosted by the death sentence of the law

They are also not regularly hearing the liberating good news of the gospel our

Intuition tells us that if we just hear more practical preaching that is moving exhortations to follow

Jesus. We will improve When this becomes the main diet however We do not find ourselves improving.

We neither mourn nor dance. We were talking about John the Baptist Who was I talking to you about John the

Baptist and? Jesus earlier when before we got started this morning Nobody was

I okay? See you so long ago and So they're neither mourning nor dancing

We neither mourn or dance But bring me into the chamber of a holy God where I'm completely undone and tell me about what

God has done in Christ to Save me tell me about the marvelous indicatives of the gospel God's surprising interventions of salvation on the stage of history

Despite human rebellion and the flickering candle of faith is inflamed giving light to others

The law guides, but it is not give for all who seek to be acceptable to God by their obedience love holiness and service

The call to obedience only condemns it shows us what we have not done and the more we hear it properly

The more we actually lose our moral self -confidence and cling to Christ in other words the more we hear of the law the more we realize

We need Christ So does it set does the gospel set us free?

No, it really turns us more to Christ Well, I'm I was just waiting that you know for you to answer your own question,

I mean, what do you think I I think Yeah, I mean we need law and gospel what we what we don't need is

Gospel Yeah, we don't need that And we don't need to feel better about ourselves, right?

That's a good paradigm. I like it number 18 true or false Jesus set forth the good news on this in the

Sermon on the Mount. I don't know. I don't know I think there's a lot of bad

I mean if we were to weigh it, even if we could find the gospel in the Sermon on the Mount, I'd say Yeah, it's pretty pretty much law

So I'm gonna go with false unbelievers love the

Sermon on the Mount But but you know why

Yes Yes, I mean what they really like about the Sermon on the Mount is the fact that you know, they can point their crooked little finger at everybody else

Or you know the government I mean it's interesting because you know, they do they do the kind of like the government should apply the

Sermon on the Mount, you know and Because for example

You should do unto others, you know as you would have them do unto you well that that means that you should

You know, wouldn't you like somebody to take care of you and If you hadn't if you couldn't work wouldn't you like somebody to you know, all those kind of things so I every liberal program can be justified by a twisting of The Sermon on the

Mount I think most most liberal programs Yes for them.

Yeah. Yeah improperly understood. It's a socialistic manifesto. Yes Horton go ahead

Yeah Well bless it I you know, he could have said it this way blessed are you if you hear this and Like want to tear your garments, right?

Because you're just like so undone over your own unrighteousness in your own sin.

So yeah, that would be helpful. I Think you're wandering the path of self obliteration

Okay Okay, sorry Number 18 true or false. Yeah, we did that Okay Then he says it is always amazing to me when people suggest that the

God of the Old Testament and perhaps their fundamentalist Upbringings is rule oriented in judgmental while the

God of the New Testament is loving and lenient It is even more amazing when they appeal to Jesus Sermon on the

Mount Not only sleeping with your neighbor's Wife but lusting in your heart not only killing someone but hating your neighbor not only stealing but depriving your neighbor of Your own material resources that is what

Jesus says the law truly requires of us So it's hardly good news when people tell us that God required a bunch of rules

But now tells us just to love him and each other That's all you have to do.

Just love God and love people. I mean, you know, you see that on churches websites where we love

God and love people and I'm like Boy, that's bad, you know

Define I mean a lot of churches have that right? We just love God and love people. Do you really?

Yeah, but what we can do is get together for an hour on Sunday and fake like we love each other right and then go home

Yeah exact That'd be

PPE Perfect perpetual and Pathetic obedience

Exact maybe it's precise He says defined in this way loving

God and neighbor is a lot harder than following a few rules When Jesus defines the law of love even more than that embodies it in his very person and actions

Horton says I am undone when we see Jesus perfection. Do we think oh, yeah, that's me or I'm perfect light.

I think I'm perfect less Number 18 19 true or false true happiness is to be found in striving to keep the law of God That'd be really rough

Like what Horton says he says God's law is not a list of suggestions Nor is the principal reason for the law our happiness

Although we were created in God's image and therefore were designed to find our deepest fulfillment in glorifying and enjoying

God The law is an expression of God's own glory his moral character furthermore the covenant of law sworn it

By Israel at Mount Sinai was not quote we will try really hard to have our best life now

It wasn't even we will try really hard to obey what you've said

What did they say they said all this we? will do

They didn't What would make somebody say?

We're going to obey all that God has commanded. Why would somebody even say that? Okay, well, sir, let's stick in the fire

But you imagine true happiness is to be found in striving to keep the law of God But there are people who really think that way if I just I think it comes.

I think it stems from a wrong understanding of Yeah, I think it really stems from not understanding law and gospel

You know for failing to understand what perfection really means I'm closer to perfect really

Are you? Good for you. Well that that part is true.

We'd all be happier if we stopped eating shellfish especially from gas stations, but A Station sushi hmm.

Yeah, I'll have a fill up on number two and let me have some of that sushi to go All right number 22 or false

Don't even get me going on Bucky's You don't even know what Bucky's is There's a no there was a guy who

Who showed up for two Republican events in town Drunk as a skunk lives in Rutland He's like don't worry about it.

I'm a Republican. Yeah, you see I Support Trump His name was

Bucky so Hey Man Hey, man, it's cool.

I'm a Republican Okay number 20 true or false

What a preacher must strive for is Balance between law and gospel

How can you say that? Okay because Horton says that okay all right fine quote him

The law tells us what we must do the gospel tells us what God has done for us

These are two distinct words each must be heard on its own terms I mean that would be interesting wouldn't it what if you know

Sunday morning? Pastor Mike gets up here, and he goes okay now I have He goes every time

I'm going to get to a law part of my sermon He goes I'm gonna go like this, you know and every time

I'm going to do the gospel It's gonna be like this So you guys have to watch and keep track you kids when you mark down how many times

I go to this side You know what

I think I Yeah, you know what I think this this sounds like a worthy project

I think I think we're gonna have to we're gonna.

We're gonna. We're gonna have to watch that now Okay I have something new to watch tomorrow morning, so and of course if Brian is wrong

We'll all meet here next week to throw stones at Brian so Okay It's a harsh crowd

Never All right number 21

When did I lose control number 21 true or false? The law often brings comfort.

I don't know man. I seriously I I'm I'm surprised by what

I've been hearing from some people lately. You know we just need more rules We need more

Yeah, we need we need to understand you know Yeah, I can't even say because I'll get myself in trouble, but number 21 is false

Now it is evident that one is not justified before God by the law for the righteous shall live by law

Faith Those are the terms no grading on a curve no time off for good behavior or good intentions

That should drive us to our knees and confession and of our utter helplessness

But instead it often arouses our self -righteousness and I I got an earful a couple weeks ago somebody yelling at me in my office, and I was like I Don't understand that but okay

Yeah John Pastor Robin yeah

But But but I mean when we put the law in capitals there, what are we talking about?

We're talking about the law of God. I mean even even if you hear you know thou shalt have no gods before me

Does that make you feel good? Yeah Yeah Right Which is why you know

Religions like Mormonism are so appealing to so many people right because if I think

Well, okay, God is pretty much like me Except better, and how did he get better by doing these things?

By not drinking coffee by not smoking by paying 10 % to the church by going to the temple and being sealed as well

Well, I can do those things and I can ascend to the most high

Yeah, right Devil doesn't even advocate.

It's too late for him Yes, and and you know could we say?

You know that as God's children the law brings us comfort in that now. We know where the boundaries are

I? Wouldn't say so I mean I think our children find comfort in knowing what the boundaries are, but that's because if we don't give them boundaries then they

They run amok right and I Think all the law does is just make us realize our guilt and does make us treasure

Christ, right? Because now we we realize what he did But okay number 22

Much of the Bible can rightly be understood apart from Jesus. He says apart from Christ the

Bible is a closed book Read or read with him at the center

It is the greatest story ever told the Bible is trivialized when it is reduced to life's instruction manual

What is the point of the historical books the Psalms? the wisdom literature and the prophets according to the

Apostles and Jesus himself The Bible is an unfolding drama with Jesus as its central character now

I have a question for you if I just say this if I say the

Bible is about Jesus Christ. What would you say? true or false Okay, if I say the every part of the

Bible is always about Jesus. What would you say? Okay, now how do you reconcile those two statements?

I asked you first if the Bible was about Jesus Christ you said true, then I said is every part of it

Yes, that is Well, then why would you say that the book overall is about Jesus you can't turn the table it's too heavy

How would I how would I well, you know what because here's what people try to say I have an article in my office about that where people say well

You know what if you're trying to make every sermon about Jesus Then essentially what you're doing is you're trying to say that every rock tree shrub and person

You know is always pointing to Jesus and I would say no But I would say that if if we take

Jesus out of the equation, then the book is utterly pointless, right? And so the issue isn't whether I can find him in every

Rock rock tree shrub, etc in Scripture, but the question is is ultimately every story arc pointing to Christ and the answer is

Yes, you know even the people Israelites wandering out in the wilderness. Well, how does that point me to Jesus?

God is patient Okay, the serpent yep on the stick yep, or even you know if I say life apart from God is

You know pointless or if I say, you know are I like the patience of God, you know

Can we outrun the patience of God, you know was a redemption even though you know

The people of Israel sinned over and over and over again Yes, is there redemption for us even if we sin over and over and over again yes because of Christ, you know and So, I mean ultimately things, you know, can

I if I look at from our wanderings?

So, I mean you can make that argument. I mean there are a series of There are series of illustrations that you can make right and and it is ultimately time to go but Where are we here?

Well, let's do 24 and then we'll then we'll go 24 true or false the law tells those

We're at 23. Okay, when a preacher makes application he is often giving law

That's true. Yeah, we had a true often in popular preaching today

It seems the goal is to get through the interpretation of the passage in order to arrive at a contemporary

Application which typically evidences the preacher's own hobby horses and recent diet of reading or movies usually application equals law to doodles rather than using the passage to Actually absolve sinners of their guilt and rescript them in their new roles as those who have been transferred from Covenantal headship of Adam to Christ.

In other words to remind us that we've been removed from The kingdom of Satan the domain of Satan and into the kingdom of his dear son, so We will close there and we'll try to read

Or do chapter the five next time. Yeah, so we do have next week

Alright, let's pray Father we thank you for this morning. Thank you for these men for this option.

We've had to gather to discuss this to To sharpen one another to think through these issues to even reflect on the current state of evangelicalism and ultimately, it's

Lostness in a number of ways father. I pray for the churches in our area that they would

Be faithful to your word that we would hear and in other pulpits see a growing distinction between law and gospel that we might be

Reminded of our failures and we might also be reminded that we have a great

Savior who? rescues us Not only from our worst sins, but from our best efforts and we thank you so much for him in Jesus name