Before Interviewing Hank Hanegraaff

Welcome and Upcoming Interview with Hank Hanegraaff

Haha, we started one minute early. It is 859. Technically I said that I would be going live at 9, but up it's 9 o 'clock. There we go. Perfect. Welcome to another episode of revealed apologetics. I'm your host Eli Ayala.

And I am going to spend a little time in this episode kind of explaining What's gonna go down tomorrow with my interview with Hank Hanegraaff of CRI the Christian Research Institute Which was founded I believe by dr. Walter Martin if you guys remember a couple of episodes ago I had an interview with Dr. Walter Martin's daughter if you don't know who dr. Walter Martin is then I would highly suggest that you check out his stuff.

He is the author of the classic book Kingdom of the cults the kingdom of the cults which is basically a an apologetics work that addresses You know how to respond to various cults Jehovah's Witness Mormons You know all sorts of different groups.

They are very very useful book and definitely a must-have if you are Trying to develop an apologetics library. Okay, definitely you want to check that out. Also. Dr. Walter Martin has some lectures on YouTube you can find they're not as as Prevalent as as one would hope.

He was such a great teacher Dr. Martin was and so I wish there was more More information and more material out there. However, however, I am in the works of receiving some of the cassettes that have the recordings as to when Walter Martin was The host of the Bible Answer Man.

And so of course as I said before he's the original Bible Answer Man. So I'm going to come into possession of those with the goal of having someone develop them into mp3s and then making available because I think that Walter Martin was an excellent apologist and definitely someone that I think Has much to say even even though he passed away.

I believe 1989 or something like that. But at any rate so again, so the reason why I wanted to have this episode was to kind of explain what's going on. When I had posted a while back that I was gonna have Hank Hanegraaff on of course.

The internet is the internet and so people They were reaching out to me people were were saying. Hey, what are you doing? You know, are you compromising blah blah blah blah blah blah blah those kinds of things.

Well, I want to I Want to Clarify my position. Okay with regards to this and I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about a couple of things here in this episode number one I'm gonna talk talk to you guys about where I stand with regards to orthodoxy number two I'm gonna talk about the purpose of the interview and kind of the events surrounding The how I am was able to get Hank to come on.

And then I want to talk about the importance of having these sorts of discussions. And then I want to talk about what is going to follow This interview, okay. Because there is a reason and a purpose as to why I wanted to have Hank on and I think hopefully Hopefully folks will see That the the reason that I that I desire to have him on is legitimate.

And so I'll explain that in just a few moments here. Okay now What is my stance on orthodoxy? Okay now everyone listening on the internet? Okay I want you to look directly into your your phone or your your computer screen.

Eastern Orthodoxy, the Gospel, and the Five Solas

I am NOT an orthodox Person. I do not agree with orthodox theology with regards to the what I think are the essential features of the gospel. I think that Eastern Orthodoxy has a false Gospel message and I believe that Eastern Orthodox folks should be evangelized.

I'm going to say that again lest I be accused of any compromise in any in any way shape or form. I believe that Eastern Orthodoxy has a false gospel and this is essentially because of the denial of Sola Fide, which I think is an essential feature of the Christian faith.

Okay, so I'm letting you know right now when I say I'm studying Eastern Orthodoxy I am NOT studying Eastern Orthodoxy because I'm thinking about becoming Eastern Orthodox. You see I'm studying Eastern Orthodoxy because that is an aspect of the umbrella of what has been understood historically as an aspect of Christianity.

That I'm not familiar with and every time I ask even scholars I've asked scholars about Eastern Orthodoxy and as brilliant as Many of the scholars I've had on this show as brilliant as they are I get the same answer the answer is well I don't really know much about Eastern Orthodoxy and then they'll kind of sprinkle some things that they heard or whatever.

And so I'm I'm a student. I like to learn it doesn't matter if it's a false view or a true view or a variation between I'm a student I I like to learn and unlike some people I do not have the ability to Collect all of the books that are written on this topic and read them all and so I Primarily learn although I do read as you see books in the background, right?

I learn primarily through conversation. I learn through Discussion and depending on the context I learn through Debate. Okay. It's not someone is just writing in the comments. I don't even know what Eastern Orthodoxy is.

See that's the problem. That's the problem. So so here's the thing with regards to Eastern Orthodoxy I don't know much about it, but I know enough about it that I reject it. Does that make sense? Okay I'll say that again.

I don't know much about it, but I know enough about it that I reject it. Okay, that is not to say that we therefore should never have conversations with people who are Eastern Orthodox. The fact that I'm speaking with an Eastern Orthodox person doesn't mean that I agree with them in their Eastern Orthodoxy.

So I'm gonna repeat it over and over and over again because I know how the internet is. Okay when you see me Talk to you guys. I really want to be genuine with you guys. Okay. I am a Protestant Christian.

I believe in the five solas of the Reformation. I believe in sola fide. I believe in sola gratia. I believe in sola scriptura. I believe in solus Christus. I believe in soli Deo gloria. I believe in all of those.

Matter of fact the previous episode I had dr Tony Costa fine scholar defend the five solas of the Reformation. I firmly firmly believe in those and by the way, I think Tony did an excellent job. And if you want to If you want to Kind of get a good defense from an informed voice on this the five solas I would highly recommend that you guys watch the previous episode that I did with dr Tony Costa and I'm gonna talk a little bit about him because I'm gonna have him back on.

And this is connected to what we're doing here. Okay, so again My position on Eastern Orthodoxy it has a false gospel. Roman Catholicism has a false gospel. Our is it possible for people to be in the Roman Catholic Church and be saved?

Is it possible for people to be in the Eastern Orthodox Church and be saved? Yes, it is possible. It is but when affirming when affirming Fully what these churches teach then I think that there lies the key issue and it is an it is something that is of apologetic importance.

Okay now. Now that I've laid out my perspective and alienated any Eastern Orthodox person who listens to my channel or any Roman Catholic person who listens? To my channel. I'm just being frank with you, but that's my position.

And that's my my understanding of what I think are Essentials where when these groups deviate from what I think are those essential features of what makes the gospel the gospel. I think that's where we need to speak up that said Hank Hanegraaff in my own apologetic journey has proved to be Very very helpful to me before he made the switch, of course.

And in my formative years of doing apologetics, I found his material very helpful. I do not hate Hank Hanegraaff. As a matter of fact, I am quite delighted to be speaking with him. Okay, that's not to say I want to butter him up or make him feel as though he's just you know.

One of the you know, one of the brothers, you know, so to speak. But the amazing thing is that within the context of me being able to interview Hank. He agreed, okay, he agreed and this was my qualification that if I were to have him on I asked him.

Not personally through a contact and we kind of had a middleman. I mean, he's a very busy guy. So it's not like he's we're talking on the phone or anything like that. By the way as a complete aside. People talk to me about you know, this scholar and that scholar just because I had them on the show doesn't mean that we're buddy-buddy.

Okay, so I don't get to talk to all these guys, you know all the time, you know off off the you know off YouTube. Okay, but that being said Hank I think was Generous enough through my interactions through email and through our middleman to allow me to give the qualifier before I have him on and let people know my position on Eastern Orthodoxy and I thought that I that was something I very much appreciated that Hank was Was fine with.

I mean basically in essence he was agreeing that. He was agreeing to come on and at the same time He was agreeing that I would share my position that I don't think Eastern Orthodoxy has a true gospel.

Okay, but the amazing thing is that even if that's my position and maybe Hank would disagree. Of course Hank would hold to and he said this multiple times. He holds to the notion of mere Christianity.

Which we'll probably talk a little bit about when he's on and maybe he can kind of unpack that from his perspective. He holds to that he might not see me as someone who's outside the faith. Okay, it might be if I think I've heard him say that the Roman Catholic Church he acknowledged is a true church, but has grave error and.

And I heard him say in some context that he believes that Protestants are also brothers and sisters in Christ, so He may not share the position I hold. But we disagree we disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't have a conversation.

And it doesn't mean that I can't learn from someone who holds to that position. Okay. It's not sinful for me to sit down with an Eastern Orthodox person and ask them about their views. So that I can clearly understand where they're coming from and then draw those Important distinctions from what I believe and what I believe the scriptures teaches versus another person's position.

That's how communication works. Okay, it's very easy that when we're on the internet and you see something. It's same thing with all the flack that James White got when he was. When he had those dialogues with Yasser Qadi, okay, and this whole thing broke out, which I thought was ridiculous.

And I thought that those conversations were immensely useful and that dr. James White did not deserve The backlash that he got from for many people listen when we are able to communicate when we are able to communicate with people we don't agree with that is a good thing and To be able to do that without compromising the gospel and without compromising our principles.

That is a good thing. Okay, so I wanted to kind of let people know where I stand with regards to orthodoxy and the fact that Hank was generous enough to allow me to Have him on and share that and express that and still be willing to have a discussion I think that's a good thing.

But if we're so quick to shoot down the other perspective, then where where are the where's the communication happening? You see what I'm saying? Same thing with what James White speaks about with regards to Muslims if our communities are not speaking How are we going to engage in a meaningful fashion so as to get at truth?

Okay. Now that said Hank is coming on tomorrow at 4 p .m. Eastern, okay. But it's not a debate. I'm not debating him. I'm asking questions I'm learning his perspective and perhaps I'll give some some pushback here and there because I do want to see how he Understands certain perspectives and you know the Protestant perspective and how they enter interact with each other.

But if I challenged Hank to a debate, I probably wouldn't he probably wouldn't come on and and quite frankly I Respect his knowledge of Scripture. He definitely has more experience than I do. And so I wouldn't imagine that I would be so Be the kind of person that says, all right Hank.

Come on. Come on my channel so we can debate. No, I'm Someone might feel comfortable doing that but for myself As I said before I'm a student I do like to learn a person's position and I learn best through conversation.

So that's really where I'm coming from. So I hope folks understand. Especially my root my reformed brothers. There are a lot of reformed people who are very passionate about their theology and I am too.

But at the same time I hope you guys see the value in discussions like this now. There was a comment in the comments just now and I just read it real quick that really encapsulates why I wanted Hank on.

Okay I'm still not convinced. You're not looking to become I I totally am not looking. I am a fully and thoroughly convinced Protestant Christian and I am a bloodthirsty Calvinist, okay, I believe in the five points of Calvinism.

I believe in the solas. But I don't know everything and I and I'm not saying that I don't know whether those things are true. I am very convinced that they are. But I am very much still learning other positions so that I could adequately address them within an apologetics context same thing if I Was learning Jehovah's Witness theology.

I'd have to read Jehovah's Witness works. I'd have to talk to Jehovah's Witnesses, right? And so when we can do those things respectfully, I think that's that's a good thing. All right. So the primary purpose of having Hank on is for Education.

For myself and for the listeners and for all those who share this sentiment ready for all those who share the sentiment. What on earth is Eastern Orthodoxy? Right. That's the question that comes up. And so That is the reason why I'm having him on.

Okay, so that He could explain his position those who don't know the position are like, huh? That's the position. Okay, and now Knowing the position there is apologetic value there once you listen and hear what the other side has to say then you take what scripture says you're you're Protestant hopefully Protestant position and you are able to address the views as they're clearly Laid out.

Okay. I think that is a very very good thing. All right. So that's really the purpose. Okay now that being said Because I desire to teach and to help people within the apologetics context, okay I'm not going to leave this interview hanging in the middle of nowhere, right?

You kind of have an Eastern Orthodox guy. Come on. He shares his view and all right. Well, that's what Eastern Orthodoxy believes and I completely disagree. Okay, I'm not leaving it there. Okay, if you guys have seen my previous episode where I had dr. Tony Costa on very very solid Reformed scholar What I want he's gonna be coming, but he agreed to come back on so as to address Okay, my discussion with Hank not to bash Hank not to make fun of and point fingers at Ooh, look at the Eastern Orthodox people and how wrong they are, but rather to go through my discussion, okay and Critique it biblically and that second Episode that kind of the episode after Hank is going to act as kind of that Here is the apologetical nuggets that we can take from this discussion.

That is useful. Okay, and I think again that's gonna be very helpful. So please I want you to see this what I'm talking about here The discussion with Hank and my follow-up analysis of that discussion with With dr. Tony Costa, I want you to see these as kind of a tripartite series a Trinitarian of sorts kind of series where we could address.

Here's the reason why I'm doing this. Here is the discussion. Look how respectful we can be look how informative it can be and at the same time Let's take a look then as to how we might critique this perspective and make some apologetic application.

So that the next time you guys who are reformed may be Protestant come in contact with an east in Eastern Orthodox Person you kind of have a springboard as to where they're coming from so that you can tether your apologetic interaction.

Accordingly. Okay. I think that's very very important to keep in mind. Okay, so that's my stance on Eastern Orthodox position. That's my purpose for having the interview. I do not hate Hank Hanegraaff as I said before I'm actually super excited to be talking with him but at the same time we do strongly disagree and and hopefully those disagreements can be Distinguished and we can kind of talk about that in the follow-up episode.

Okay. All right, and I guess I kind of covered the importance of having these sorts of discussions. All right now that out of the way completely different Topic. I want to give people some updates. My precept answer book is I started writing.

Okay. Yay, you have no idea how difficult it is to write and be Busy the way I am. I know I have three little kids. They're amazing. I love my family love my kids, but things are super Pardon, super busy at home.

And so it has been slow, but I have finished I have finished a couple of the questions the couple of the questions so Interestingly enough if I can tie this back to Hank Hanegraaff. The inspiration for writing a precept answer book was actually the Bible answer book.

Okay and so the Bible answer book was a book written by a couple of books written by Hank Hanegraaff where he answers Bible questions in a kind of Devotions length, you know responses so it's kind of brief.

It doesn't go too in-depth, but it gives you kind of a little nugget. Okay, and again, those were written when he was Protestant, right? But that was kind of the inspiration. I am super busy so a book like that actually Caters to my busy schedule because I can just sit address a question in like a page and a half or something like that move On okay.

The book doesn't have chapters. It just has numbered questions. So like question number one. What are presuppositions question number two? What is presuppositional apologetics. Question number three, you know?

What is Neutrality. Question number four. What is autonomy? Okay, and so I'm gonna go through in question form some of the important presuppositional apologetic Methodological terminology that's a mouthful, right?

I'm gonna go through some of the vocabulary that I think is important to go through and then we will go through What we like you're writing the book. I'm writing the book I have to go through all this stuff.

Actually, that's not true. You guys helped me some of you guys sent in questions that I want to include in the in the book but then it will go into some of the the in-house debate Criticisms the in-house debate criticism.

So, you know, how would a pre supper respond to some of our classical brothers? Those who alter the classical apologetic methodology, you know things that are more philosophical in nature. Like the the claim that presuppositional list mix up.

Mix up Ontology and epistemology, so we're gonna go into some of those things as well. We'll also go into the differences between different presuppositional list, you know, what's the difference between Vantil and Gordon Clark or Francis Schaeffer, okay, so we're gonna be covering a bunch of those things in short little snippets and the purpose of this is to really be To give a resource for people a quick resource to kind of answer some of those questions that usually come up.

Someone's asked me am I a presupposition list sure am if you have listened to it feels your first time here. If you watch a lot of my previous episodes, I am a presupposition list of the Vantillian flavor I I used to be a Clarkian.

I was a Vantillian. I Flirted with Clarkian presuppositional ism. And by the way while I'm not a Clarkian I really do like the writings of Gordon Clark. So I do I do encourage people to still read them even though I I kind of disagree in the final analysis.

But again, that's another issue. So these the books are gonna cover those sorts of things and then I want I Want a section that addresses the really the lay person now this the whole book is is written for lay people.

But I may cover some philosophical issues that require some background. But I do want to cover I would want to have a section of questions that address the everyday person. You know, like how would we respond to this objection from a biblically faithful?

Apologetic methodology and so it'll be more practical kind of a quick, you know a Quick way to address some of those issues. All right, so that's kind of really, you know. It's moving along slowly, but I've got some stuff and I actually started and it's a pretty it's pretty awesome.

Okay, so now for my large project I have a large project going on that I I'm excited to tell people about. And hopefully people will be excited once things get started on running along. I'm sorry. My screen is going berserk.

So apologies one second. There we go. My laptop is like sometimes possessed by a demon. It's what it feels like I'll be like talking in like a thing will like pop up on the side and and all of a sudden I lost my my screen so Maybe we could anoint the you know a little that's the Pentecostal background in me right could anoint my computer with oil.

Put some oil there pray over it so that maybe it'll stop. It'll stop messing around with me. But I wanted to announce my large project which is a pretty big deal for me and I'm hoping that it has a positive response.

I am working on getting a revealed apologetics website going and Offering online schools. Okay, so I will be teaching a class on Apologetics a presuppositional apologetics where people can sign up, you know you pay a fee since I obviously I'm gonna try to put a lot of work into it and so That definitely will be helpful, you know people's financial Help would be something that would be very useful for that.

You'll be able to sign up, you know. Watch the the courses and things like that and learn a presuppositional methodology from someone who is not a scholar. I've been told that I'm very well spoken. Okay, and I appreciate that.

I am a teacher I do teach middle school high school a teacher to Christian private school and I do teach apologetics and things like that. But I'm not a scholar. I don't have a PhD or something like that and so I have found that folks find it useful when someone who is well-spoken has teaching experience is able to convey the Information in a way that's easily understood as opposed to kind of sitting in a seminary class or something like that.

So so the goal is to create these online courses and And Offer them for for a price people can sign up and you go through the lessons and finally at the end you'll be equipped to kind of engage unbelievers from a Presuppositional perspective and of course more importantly I think from a biblical perspective as you know, I've said in the past I do find very much the presuppositional apologetic methodology to be the methodology that is supported in Scripture.

Okay, so that's kind of my big Project of sorts. Folks are asking me, you know, how much would the classes be? I have No clue. I have no clue how much they'll be. This is something I'm working on. It's still in in seed form.

And so I've never done this before. I teach in many capacities. I'm a traveling speaker just kind of do a little advertisement here. If you want me to come to your church I do Conferences and things like that where I can teach workshops and stuff.

And so I am a public speaker. I spoke at various places. I've been invited to speak at Texas A &M International University where I shared the stage with some other apologists as well. Um, so if you guys are interested in having me come to your church or something like that I definitely do those things but with regards to kind of doing these classes, I think I think a more Classroom sort of experience is good for people.

Okay, and so I think folks can benefit from what I have to share and if Hopefully the goal is that people find it useful and helpful in the task of defending the faith. I mean we need to equip people.

Unfortunately, many churches aren't spending much time Equipping their people with apologetics, but we are the body of Christ and I am a body part of the body. You are part of the body and we help each other, right?

So my task is to help others equip them and of course, I'm helped by others as well in various capacities so I think this is a Going to be a very something an exciting project for me and I think hopefully very useful for folks who sign up.

Okay, but once we get the details the website up and all that those details worked out I'll let everybody know. Of course, you guys will know the pricing the different kinds of courses I'm I'm thinking about doing kind of different categories.

So, you know, there will be courses on theology but a basic Christian doctrine apologetic methodology. Maybe an evangelism course something like that where we can kind of you can sign up for multiple things and we can walk through you know a Course that will help folks do those things more effectively.

Okay, so that's basically it I wanted to make those announcements and kind of explain. You know what's gonna go down tomorrow again just to remind people tomorrow it's 4 p .m. With Hank anagraph. I'll be doing live.

It's not a debate. Okay. So just want to you guys to get that in your in your mind. And as I said before we're not going to leave it hanging in the middle of nowhere I'll be having dr. Tony Costa come on to give an analysis of our discussion and perhaps give some helpful responses to To the Eastern Orthodox position from a reformed perspective, okay, so Let me Take some questions.

If there are any questions, please feel free to type them in. I know some folks have. There are a bunch of comments here so far as I got to scroll through them. So I'll take a couple here and feel free if you have any questions to type them in.

I am in no rush. I will Try my best to cover. Let's see here. Okay, here's a comment. Okay, a scripture here have nothing to do with the fruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Amen. Yeah, I agree with that.

I Hope that the assumption the presupposition Preserve get it. The assumption is not that by talking to an Eastern Orthodox person that therefore I am having something to do with the fruitless deeds of Darkness, I think that that cannot be defended.

Obviously, we are to speak with people that we don't agree with. There is educational value in that and of course, I'm not doing this ambiguously such so as to give the impression That there's just no difference here.

It's just another denomination. I've already expressed my position there. So hopefully that clarifies. That clarifies that there. Okay. Let's see here. And this question comes up a lot do you adhere to absolute divine simplicity if so, how is that compatible with divine conceptualism.

We orthodox accept the essence energy distinction which can account for this. Um, I do in a simple sense. Simple. I didn't do that on purpose. I do in a simple sense accept divine simplicity. But that's just to say that I do not believe that God is composed of any parts.

He's simple in his being now. There is a broader discussion with regards to simplicity and I am somewhat familiar Although not too familiar with the essence energy distinction within Eastern Orthodoxy.

So I don't know the connection there and I know there is a connection. And so actually that might be something to bring up, you know in our discussion. What do Orthodox folks believe about the essence energy distinction?

Okay, by the way, that is a specific theological aspect of Eastern Orthodoxy that I thought was interesting and wanted to explore. So yeah, so I do hold to divine simplicity. But there is some variation with how folks Accept that there are strong senses of divine simplicity and weaker senses of divine simplicity that are held by By Protestants across the board.

So it really depends in what sense and that's an area where I am still exploring. What I find very interesting though. If anyone is interested in this topic of divine simplicity, you might want to check out James D 'Alazal's book the God without parts.

Where he talks about his particular Views on divine simplicity. I think he holds to the more traditional classical view of absolute divine simplicity. But that's an interesting resource there folks are interested interested.

Here we go as another question, what would you say is the relationship between the abstract entities grounded in God's mind and the Trinity. Well again, this becomes very difficult. By the way abstract objects or abjure the kind of concepts ideas.

You know if you're referring to something like akin to like conceptualism divine conceptualism. I am a divine conceptualist. I do believe that the that these ideas these abstract objects exist within the mind of God.

That would be my position. What is that in relationship to the Trinity is a difficult question because it's very hard to conceptualize the Trinity. This is an aspect that I think even Eastern Orthodox folks can Appreciate that I have no problem saying with regards to the Trinity that there is an aspect of mystery with regards to how to Conceptualize this.

I mean when I think of three Automatically in my mind and make these distinctions that are separate from one another and so it's hard to kind of conceptualize What that looks like with regards to quote the mind of God so to be perfectly honest I wouldn't know exactly how the interplay it works out there.

Okay for me I would say that's kind of mysterious that might be due to my own ignorance or perhaps it is literally mysterious and it's not something That we could feasibly know so That would be my position there.

Okay. Let's see here. Okay, so JY says if you say Eastern Orthodox has a false gospel, would you say Would say would you say I think that's what you're trying to say those in the Eastern Orthodox are believing a false gospel and therefore Not believers.

Yeah that goes to the question or the point that I made earlier in the video. And I guess I suppose I made it quick I I asked the question is it possible for a Roman Catholic to be saved or an Eastern Orthodox person to be saved?

Yes, it is possible. But that needs to be tethered out a little more if for example, let's say for example with regards to Roman Catholicism if you fully understand The teachings of Rome with regards to those essential soteriological issues and you embrace it I would say I I would count that person as outside the camp of Christ.

Okay, because I I say this very seriously that official Roman Catholic teaching is a false gospel and will Will place someone outside the camp of Christ now. That's not to say that there aren't folks within the Roman Catholic Church that may not fully understand those Implications and kind of in a simple way kind of just I just I'm trusting in Christ the best I can and how I understand These issues I think it's possible that a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox person can be saved.

But I mean that's gonna be an area where it's difficult to kind of explore if you ask me the bear question that's how I would respond but a full acknowledgement of what of the denial for example of Justification by faith alone.

I think that that is a denial of essential Christian doctrine and it strikes at the very heart of the gospel. So I do think that this is a very very very important issue. Okay. Now that doesn't mean I'm walking around pointed to Roman Catholics and all those people are not saved.

That's not necessarily the case. And so that's why these issues are never simply just a black and white issue. That's why it's important to have conversations and to and to discuss these issues with people instead of just making quick blanket statements in every instance.

So I think that's a very important important point. Urban reform podcast. I think that's. Oh Man, Ricky, there we go. Ricky. What's up, Ricky? Okay, Ricky's a buddy of mine and a solid presupposition listen reformed Christian.

And he's saying here Walter Martin was a soldier. Absolutely guys I said it before and I'll say it again if you have not listened to the you know, the audio lectures of Walter Martin there's some of them can be found in On YouTube maybe in podcast form and I'm working on hopefully getting some more of that audio material out.

That is I mean you need to listen to dr. Walter Martin not a Calvinist. Okay, ironically though ironically though when I had his daughter on his daughter's a Calvinist, okay. Cindy Cindy Martin, she's a Calvinist which I she kind of you listened to the last episode.

She kind of talked about How he used she used to get? Walter Martin and her husband to kind of discuss these these issues. So that was an area of disagreement. But overall, I think Walter Martin was a solid Christian apologist and excellence communicator and speaker.

And so I do highly recommend his material. Okay, so let's see here. There we go. Slam our n. I am totally with you on this. I suppose that's in reference to the Eastern Orthodox stuff. I do appreciate that.

Thank you. Let's see here other people sharing the fact that they agree. Yeah Jay yes, if that didn't clear up anything nothing will yes. Thank you. So I've given my clear stance on the orthodoxy issue.

Hopefully I won't receive messages of to the contrary. But again, it's the internet. I mean things like that happen. So What are you gonna do? All right. Okay, let's see here. A truth speller says amen.

You I appreciate the videos you do brother. Thank you so much. I enjoy doing them. This is really the purpose, isn't it? Right that if not simply appreciating the videos but seeing the value and the content of what we're talking about.

I think I think online apologetics is such a vital vital thing in our specific day and age. I mean you think about it the Internet is the new gospel track, right? This is the way we reach the masses. And so I do appreciate that you appreciate the videos and I appreciate folks who who follow the channel.

I appreciate the fact that you guys are finding the content So useful it it gives me the energy and the excitement to do more and more. So Thank you very much. Let's see here. Do you believe Orthodox Christians can be saved?

Yes, I believe that anyone can be saved, right? Literally in the sense that God can save anyone. Don't twist my words there just in case. Yeah, like I said before it is possible that there are people in the Eastern Orthodox Church that are saved.

But again, there's there's more to hash out there. There's some difficult conversation to have to navigate that sort of issue. But yes, I do think it is it is possible. Let's see here. See, okay. Right here.

I don't even know what Eastern Orthodoxy is. That was the reason why is what and there's don't there's no shame in that by the way. A lot of people don't know and so that was kind of the inspiration to to kind of have Hank on and talk about the perspective.

Someone did suggest to me to have Jay Dyer on Jay Dyer okay, I Have never interacted with Jay Dyer however, I Have been present with him in the same room on discord and I have heard him interact with people and I Mean this respectfully.