WWUTT 670 Q&A With Dr. Voddie Baucham (Part 1)

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Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text as an online ministry committed to teaching sound doctrine and exposing the faulty, visit our website at www .utt

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.com. Now here's our host, Pastor Gabe Hughes. Thank you, Becky. This being

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Friday, we usually take questions from the listeners and respond to them on the Friday edition of the broadcast, but we are on vacation right now.

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So for this week, here is a Q &A with Dr. Votie Bauckham. First question, Votie, someone would like to know your own testimony.

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How has this reliable, historical, powerful book confronted you and brought about your salvation?

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Yeah, my testimony is I'm a sinner saved by grace. My testimony is that Christ redeemed me from my sin.

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I didn't grow up around Christians or Christianity. I was raised by a single teenage

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Buddhist mother in Los Angeles, California. I never heard the gospel until I went to university.

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And a gentleman came and spoke to me there and spent a few weeks with me answering questions that I had.

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And that's when and where and how this truth got a hold of me. And I realized that I was without God in the world.

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I realized that I didn't have any righteousness of my own. And I realized that, you know, really, this is the way, my simplistic way of understanding where I came to.

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I realized that every other religion in the world could basically be summarized this way. You need to have a religious experience and then do more good things than bad things and hope for the best when you die.

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You know, but number one, I can't be good. I know this.

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Number two, what about all the stuff I did before my religious experience? And the

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Bible's message that Christ died for sin once for all, the just for the unjust in order that he might bring us back to God, it really, that's what

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God used to get ahold of me and to cause me to realize that everything out there was just religion, but that God provided a savior and I was radically saved.

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Amen. Thank you. All right. Someone says, I don't want to be the devil's advocate, but what if I say some people long ago decided to choose some and leave other books?

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And specifically, what about the Apocrypha? I think that affirms the authority of the

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Bible. The fact of the matter is the Bible is not the only thing that was ever written.

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It's not the only thing that was ever written about God. But the Old Testament has been in place since long before Jesus came.

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So we had the Old Testament canon since long before Jesus came. And the Apocrypha was not part of the

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Old Testament canon long before Jesus came. It wasn't recognized as part of the canon.

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And the New Testament was received early on by the church, mainly because of apostolic authority or connection to apostolic authority.

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And so the church received these books because of the source of these books.

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And that's what should have been done. And that's what we still do.

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This is why we understand and believe that we do have a closed canon.

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There are other books that are out there, many of them, you know, for example, you hear about things like the

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Gospel of Thomas or the Gnostic Gospels or things like this, the Acts of Paul and Tecla, so on and so forth.

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A lot of these things are written... Well, all of these things are written very late, for one thing. They're not written as early as the

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New Testament. But the second thing is, there was a growth of literature about Jesus, fiction literature about Jesus in the 2nd century and 3rd century and so on and so forth.

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We know what these things are. We know what they look like. We know what their hallmarks are. So there's no reason to believe that these things are anything more than they are.

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So, yeah, the church has understood what scriptures have been authoritative for a long time.

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And the understanding of this authority was not vested in any individual. This was vested in apostolic authority, connections to Jesus, and the things that were handed down to the church through that authority.

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So that's why we have what we have. So... Okay, thanks. Have you considered differences between source manuscripts that are said to contradict themselves in thousands of places, namely the

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Textus Receptus, the majority manuscript and the minority ones like Codex Vaticanus, which appear to be the ones used by most translations today?

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I suppose that relates to the King James Controversy Versus. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's the thing, we have thousands of documents.

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We have multiple sources, and we can trace these sources, collect these sources based on a number of things, you know, where they come from, the type of writing that's used in them, so on and so forth.

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And we know which ones are earlier, which ones are later. We know which ones we have in more abundance, and so on and so forth.

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And so one of the things that's often done, for example, with the ending of Mark, with the ending of Mark, our

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Bibles will have brackets and it will say, you know, this is not contained in our oldest and most reliable manuscripts.

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You know, we can do that and we can say that, and there's no problem doing that or saying that, because we do have a long, robust history of textual criticism.

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And there aren't that many differences between manuscripts. I mean, there really aren't, especially when you consider the volume, you know, when you consider the volume of the

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Bible, and you talk about the kinds of differences that we're talking about in different manuscripts.

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You know, we're not usually talking about differences in terms of content. We're talking about differences in terms of, sometimes in terms of emphasis, sometimes in terms of word placement and things of that.

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But, you know, again, the vast number of manuscripts that we have makes the

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Bible more reliable, not less. All right. Assuming I agree with you, the

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Scripture is inspired. This person says, how can I know the Bible is complete? Actually, two different people asked the same question.

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What about other books? How do we know that we have all the books that we should? Yeah, what about other books?

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How do we know that we have all the books that we should? Because God preserved his word. That's how we know, because God preserved his word.

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And there's nothing lacking in what we have. This whole thing, this whole, what about other books?

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Again, that's Dan Brown science fiction. This is new, you know? This is from movies.

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This is not from research. This is not from history. Again, I mean, it surprises me sometimes.

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There was...I was watching a video earlier today talking about James White, and one of the gentlemen that he debates frequently, and he frequently debates the best

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Islamic scholars on planet Earth. And one of the guys that he debates frequently brought up this whole, you know,

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Constantine, you know, we want these books and not those books, get rid of those books, you know, type thing.

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And James, and this is his friend, he has friendships with these people. You know, they have friendly debates and he's just going,

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I can't believe that this guy's doing this. No researcher worth his salt should be doing this, because there is no evidence of it.

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That's fiction. That's Dan Brown. That's Da Vinci Code. Nothing like that has happened in history.

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There's no record of anything like that ever happening in history. And again, we have these...

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Do we believe that we have these thousands of manuscripts and portions of manuscripts, and that in the

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New Testament times, you know, the early church received these documents, you know, received these epistles, received these letters, received these gospels, and that somehow in the midst of all of this, with all of these documents being written by hand and spread out all over the world, that we collected up one stream of them and burned them all?

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I mean, is that really what we've come to believe? First of all, why? Why? Because guess what?

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There are other things out there. Like I told you, the Acts of Paul and Tecla, the Gospel of Thomas, and these other things, these other types of writings, they're out there.

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So evidently, this burning business wasn't too successful, right? Because there's stuff that's out there.

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The other thing is, we know where they come from. We know what kind of literature they are.

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And we know that they're not Bible, okay? So again, and it's really disturbing that this has so much traction, you know, but it does.

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And we need to be aware of it. We need to be aware that it has a lot of traction. And we need to understand that it has absolutely no basis in fact, no basis in history.

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This is not how the canon came together. Canon didn't come together through book burning. Thank you.

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Someone says, the Middle East. What does the Bible say about what's going on in the

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Middle East, the demise, the turmoil at present? Is this the end times?

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What does the Bible say? Yeah. The Bible talks about the end times and the last days, and it's a reference to the entire period between Jesus' first and second coming.

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So we're in the end times, we're in the last days, and we have been since Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.

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And we will be until Jesus comes back. Next question.

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Yeah. A lot of...this person says, a lot of people in Africa follow prophets and miracle workers instead of or in place of the

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Bible. What is your comment on this? Yeah. There have been major threats throughout history.

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In fact, one of the reasons that many of the epistles were written was because there were major threats immediately to the

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New Testament church. And so the apostles are responding directly to these major threats that we've had throughout time, throughout history, and nothing's changed.

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We still have major threats. There are major threats in terms of groups like Roman Catholicism that would argue that there is an authority in the world today.

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That is, they would say equal to, and I would say, if there's authority that's equal to the Bible and the canon is closed, then that authority that's still speaking has more authority than the one that's done.

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That's a threat to the authority of the Bible. That's one stream, okay? And another stream is related to it, and that's the one that's raised here, and that is the stream that says that the

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Bible is not enough, that you need new revelation, that you need power encounters, that you need extraordinary means, you know, over here, as though we've exhausted everything that we have in the

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Bible, and now we got to go to, you know, to something else. You know, this is hugely problematic, and there are people who are drawn away in both of these directions, and both of them are a direct threat and contradiction to the authority of God's Word, to the authority of the

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Scriptures. And it's hugely problematic, you know, not just in this world, in this part of the world.

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It's uniquely problematic in this part of the world, I would say, you know, compared to what we experience where we are, but it's nothing new, man.

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It's nothing new. And the New Testament addresses this kind of stuff directly, yeah.

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You've been to Africa how many times now? Five. Okay. You've been here the last month. You've been friends with Conrad and Bewe and others for years.

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What should we be doing about the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel? Do you think Christians are too harsh about it?

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Do you think we should be quiet, we should be vocal? What should the average healthy church's response be, and how do we rescue people?

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Yeah, I think there's a number of issues that need to be addressed, and I think there are some things that need to be written in this part of the world, for this part of the world, addressing the charismatic movement as it, you know, as it exists here, because it's different here.

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And some of the historical and traditional roots here, you know, tend to make it stick in different ways here than it does in other places.

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And so, for example, in the U .S., we've got, you know, the kingdom of the cults, and, you know,

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Jehovah's Witnesses answered verse by verse, and we've got charismatic chaos, and we've got, you know, truth wars, and all these other things that have been written, but they're being written about the

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American context. We need some of those things being written here, being written about this particular context, and addressing these things head on.

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And these things need to be translated into the vernacular so that people can have them in their native tongues here, because this stuff is rampant.

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It's viral, you know? And so, yeah, that needs to happen. And I think there's an advantage here.

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In the U .S., we believe that the 11th commandment is, thou shalt be nice, and we don't believe the first 10.

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And so, the idea of confronting error is just frowned upon.

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I think it's more appreciated here. I think directness and confrontation is more appreciated here.

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And I think right now, it needs to happen. There's some things that need to happen, you know, in terms of direct confrontation of cults and heretics, you know, that are just ravaging the land here.

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Your church is down the street from Joel Osteen. Is there a time for pastors to name names, or do you just need to lay out principles and expect people to connect the dots?

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I do both. Yeah, I do both. But yet, Paul named names, you know?

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Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm, you know? I love that. Yeah, he could have just said

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Alex, you know? He could have just said, no, Alexander the coppersmith. You know the guy on Main Street, around there, down...

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I mean, he points the guy out, you know? Again, not in a way to be mean, but in a way to warn people.

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And man, in our town, there are a lot of people who don't understand what a threat

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Joel is, which makes him more of a threat, you know? You know, I call him smiling

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Joel, you know? Everything's just so nice, and he's always so... You know what I mean? And yeah,

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I call his name, you know? And some other folks whose names, you know, need to be called from time to time.

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Not just because, hey, I feel like, you know, I need to call somebody's name, but as a shepherd, when

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I feel like my sheep are in danger, then I do that.

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You know, Titus 1 .9, you know, I must hold firmly to the trustworthy word as taught so that I can exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict it.

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That's part of my job description. And so sometimes, yeah, sometimes, you know, I do have to name names when

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I see things that are becoming a direct threat to the sheep that I'm shepherding. So, no, not just as a matter of course, just because, you know, you like naming people's names, but when it's a direct threat, you know, to the sheep, yeah, names need to be named.

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So, Joyce Meyer be a part of our spiritual diet? No. No. Why not?

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Because she's a heretic. Yeah. What makes you say that? That's harsh.

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Yeah, her teaching, the gospel that she preaches another gospel. Joyce Meyer preaches another gospel, not to mention the fact that she's assuming a role that women shouldn't assume.

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So, no. Now you're stirring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah. So, yeah, no, no, Joyce, again, the gospel that she preaches is another gospel.

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It's the prosperity gospel, you know, and here's what's so dangerous about the prosperity gospel, and I think

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John Piper said it best. The prosperity gospel is so dangerous because it promises exactly what our flesh wants.

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The true gospel says to your flesh, you must die. The prosperity gospel says to your flesh, you get to live, you know?

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You get everything that you and your natural sinful carnal state ever wanted.

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That is not the gospel. That's another gospel, you know? So, yeah, no.

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Yeah, amen. Thank you. Do we have a place to question people's salvation?

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Is that fair? Do we have a question that people who claim to be saved, who are seemingly devout, is it our place to call them to examine their faith?

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Yes, that's different. Calling somebody to examine their faith, yes. Me making a declaration about whether or not somebody's a

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Christian, I can't do that. You know, there's a few folks out there teaching that if they came to my church,

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I wouldn't baptize them, you know? Not based on what comes out of their mouth, but, yeah, not making that, but, yeah, calling people to examine themselves based on what they're teaching.

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Absolutely. Yeah. So people leave your church at time.

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I mean, they walk out on a Sunday, sometimes having to re -examine whether they're saved or not.

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Is that your job as a preacher, or is that just too discouraging and too negative? It depends on the text.

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I mean, if we're preaching, we do systematic exposition. And there are some biblical passages that that's their focus, you know?

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Examine yourself, test yourself to see if you'd be in the faith, you know? So, yes, it's appropriate for that to happen at times, but, you know, as a matter of course, not necessarily.

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But what we do want to do is uphold the gospel. The gospel needs to be proclaimed at all times, and we need always to call men to repentance and faith.

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So rather than having people leave questioning whether they're Christians, my desire is that people leave, you know, cling to their need for repentance and faith.

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Someone also asked about if there's one Bible, why are there so many different churches and denominations? Why are we so fragmented?

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Aren't the Muslims unified? Aren't the Catholics unified? Yeah, no, the Muslims are not unified. The Catholics are not unified.

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Anybody who says that doesn't know much about Muslims or Catholics. So, no, but here's the thing.

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There are so many of us, and we're in so many different parts of the world, and we have so many different needs and so many points of emphasis.

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Just the size of the world explodes that myth. So if we're going to be in one church, where's it going to be?

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And how are we going to get there? Weekly, right? So is it whoever has the biggest airport hub, then we all just, you know, we all just...

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So that in and of itself. And then when Jesus says, go take the gospel to pantheta ethne, that means that we're having to go to different people groups.

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So we're going to different language groups and people, you know, so, yeah, we need churches. And also churches are local expressions, right?

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And because they're local expressions, there need to be many of them, millions and millions of them throughout the world.

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Yeah, so that's why we have so many churches. And some churches put the emphasis here, and some churches put the emphasis there, but we're not changing the gospel.

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Oftentimes, you know, our differences come, you know, to questions about how we govern ourselves and how we organize ourselves.

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And that just has to do with the fact that there's so many of us, and we can't all be together. So we're going to have to be, you know, in relation to one another somehow.

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How do we define that? Well, those things become a little bit more difficult to sort of nail down and be very specific about.

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That's why you have a variety of different groups. But those groups are all Christian groups. So I'm not worried about there being a variety of different Christian groups.

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I'm not even worried about there being cults, to be honest with you, because Paul made this very clear even to Timothy in Chapter 4.

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You know, preach the word, be incident in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and teaching.

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Why? Because the time is going to come when people will not endure sound doctrine, but instead, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and they'll turn aside from following the truth, and they'll turn to myths.

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And this is what's happening. That's where the cults come from. That's where the false teachers come from. That's where all this comes from.

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So far from that being evidence of a problem in Christianity, that's something that the

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New Testament told us was going to be part of our experience, and it is part of our experience.

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And it's just because, you know, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. You know, what's more effective?

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To stand in front of people and tell a bald -faced lie or to cover your lying in the skin of the truth?

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That's what's more effective. That's why there's the cults, you know, so. Should we have different demographic type of churches, black churches, white churches, biker churches, traditional services, contemporary services, so forth?

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Should we have different demographic type of churches? Yes, we should have different demographic type churches in the sense that, you know, a

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Pentecostal ethnicity, there are different people groups that are going to be reached. And so people groups are going to have various cultures and languages and so on and so forth.

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So, yes, but do we have different demographic churches just for the sake of, you know, demographics?

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Absolutely not. You know, there's a difference between demographic churches and niche churches.

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Demographic churches, that's how you do missions. Niche churches, that's a problem. You know, so we're the biker church or we're the young people church or we're the old people church or we're the black people church or we're the white people church.

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You know, now you're having a problem. Now you're dividing the body. This is

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When We Understand the Text with Pastor Gabe Hughes. There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours.

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But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family. Find a good gospel -teaching,

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Christ -centered church to worship with this weekend, and join us again Monday for more Bible study, When We Understand the