How to Prepare for Parenting | Outside Eden

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Welcome to Outside Eden, two sinners discovering grace together. And if this is your first episode listening to us, you might want to go back and listen to last week's because we're kind of introducing what we're doing.

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Judith and I have been married for 20 years, have four kids, been in ministry for about that amount of time as well, pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Springville, Tennessee.

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And we're not going to really talk about the book because we did last episode. So let's go ahead and jump into chapter one, the game plan.

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Let's get ready. And to protect the author, we really don't want to read a lot of her quotes or really steal her information.

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We want to add to it. So you're going to want to read that chapter first and then come back and listen to this. We want to give some additional thoughts and really just shepherd you from our church's perspective.

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And if you're listening to this outside our church, we hope it's beneficial to you as well. So, you know, just, you know,

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I've been around for enough, you know, parenting for 20 years. Well, I guess, yeah, almost 20 years going on and we've seen a lot of styles and we've done a lot of styles.

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Unfortunately. Yeah. And I don't want to spend time, but talking about the styles, but they come from a heart of like wanting something for your child.

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And so you end up picking, you know, you have the warning parent that is so me, I was, we were warning parents.

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It was, you know, we were trying to give our kids opportunities, but then it's like, it's interesting with our dog lady, my voice is she'll listen to it.

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But when you guys do, you guys will give her warnings, like 9 ,000 warnings and then I'll have to say it's loyalty. Right.

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And it's, there's something about like the authority behind the voice. And so you have like the warning parent who's trying to use reasonableness.

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I totally am sympathetic to that. Maybe it even feels like they're being patient. Yeah. But then, you know, it's like until you raise the voice or the threats, then they don't want to listen.

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So then there's the free will parent, like, Oh, I'm just going to let my children discover life on their own.

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That lasts till I like their two and they ended up hurting themselves or someone else. Right.

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Right. Which I think is a big push right now in our culture with gentle parent parenting. I'm not saying it's all bad, but I just feel like it's, it definitely can shift too far to one side.

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Yeah. Well, and this, and there's the helicopter parent. There's so many styles that are out there and I don't really want to talk about styles.

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What we have to do is how you accomplish something really has to come from the reality of your situation.

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Right. So this being able to identify what your children are and who they are and what's going on to them, this book does such a great job.

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So I just want to kind of jump on top of that. A couple of verses she uses, and I think we'll use just to kind of help us understand the reason why you have to have a game plan and the reason why you have to embrace the concept of I've got to discipline my children,

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Proverbs 22, 15, folly is built, bound up in the heart of a child. They're born with it.

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They're born rebels, right? So we don't, if you just kind of assume that,

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Oh, you're, you know, children are, they're, they're childish and they'll make mistakes. No, there's folly.

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There's foolishness. There's actually sin that drives who they are. And that, that really helps when you're thinking about engaging this child.

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You're not engaging a wild animal that just needs to be tamed. You're actually dealing with someone who's being controlled by an evil heart.

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And that just, man, that for me, that really helps thinking like, okay, this is different. All right.

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Well, I'm looking over those different styles and really all of them warning through a helicopter and you know, I'm sure there's some other ones.

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They all still are really focusing on the action of the child, what that child's doing right now, how it's coming out.

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And so what you're saying is when we really start the game plan or getting ready to decide how we're going to approach this instead of looking at all the outside things, we're really, our focus is their heart.

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Why did they do that? Yeah, they did that. We don't want them to do it again, but why did they do that? That's right.

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Yeah. And you know, the rest of the book and really this chapter, I'll make the statement now and then it'll kind of unfold.

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It's the job of the parent is to be the, be the really the law and the gospel to the children because the law is designed to say,

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Hey, look, see what's wrong with your heart. Your heart drove you to do this. And the gospel is the good news that these children can seek

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Christ and rely on him to then fight this and find rest and joy in him.

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But if you don't hold that position, your parenting will be behavior modification instead of a heart change.

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And that's really what this game plan is about. Like, all right, we're going after the heart, not the actions. Yeah. And I think there's another proverb and at times we don't really like this proverb because I may have mistranslated a little bit.

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Proverbs 1324. It may have been what guided our first style with our first child.

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Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is a diligent to discipline him.

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And all you have to do is go to Hebrews to prove that God demonstrates this. He disciplines us because he loves us.

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And it literally says anyone who isn't disciplined by the Lord is an illegitimate child.

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Doesn't even belong to him. Now that word rod there, I think it's important that it's being used. It's a shepherding tool.

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It's really what it is. I guess that's what I meant by my first comment is I feel like in the past, in, you know, in culture,

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Christian culture, people see that verse and they think, and I'm just speaking from personal experience. I need to spank my child every time they make a mistake.

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That's right. Like that's how I correct them. And yeah. To what age, you know? Yeah. And so we're not talking spanking or not spanking.

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I'm just saying, I feel like a lot of times that verse, the full focus is on the spanking and there's so much more in that verse.

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So like the rod was, it's a shepherding tool. It was used for rescue, like the hook that could reach down in a cavern and pull them out.

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It was used for guiding. So as they were walking with the sheep, the staff would push them on one side of the shoulder or the other directing and guiding them.

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And at times if they were going the wrong direction, they could use it as a kind of like a tap, like, Hey, come back. But the whole point of it is it's shepherding.

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So it says, spare the shepherding of your child. And you're not really, like if you go back to Proverbs 22, 15, folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

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Remember, it's not the beating of the child, the whipping of the child. It's the discipline, the guiding, the directing of it.

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I think it's really important for us to understand those two. So what is discipline? Let's get into that.

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And then in chapter two is so good. I'm going to give the advertisement now because there is a massive difference between discipline and punishment.

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So stay tuned for that next week or whenever you're listening to this. All right. So just,

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Judith, I kind of broke it down into like three categories, kind of how she was presented in the book, but these are really some additional ideas that I had in my mind.

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And because I'm a pastor, they're all have C's, I just realized I did that on accident.

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So discipline really, it's cultivation. Would you go back to Proverbs or in Hebrews, the reason for the discipline, it's rooted in love, right?

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God disciplines those whom he loves. We love our children, therefore we discipline them.

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So that the word cultivation is that we're trying, you made this point in the introduction episode, we're going after their heart, their mind, their soul.

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So in your mind, when I use the word cultivation, what are we trying to cultivate through discipline? Well, first of all, the word in general just makes me think of a garden, right?

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You're cultivating it. So you are preparing the soil, you're nourishing the soil, you're working with it on a regular basis.

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And so it's much less reactionary as it is. This is a constant thing that we're doing.

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Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So that's part of the gardening idea. And that's the other thing about cultivation is that it means it's not like a one and done.

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And that's what's so hard. Like if you're thinking about training, training for anything, I don't care what you're training for.

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You know, this is one of the things that you and I have had to teach all of our children. Anytime they try a new hobby or a new game or whatever, and they can't do it the first time, it's like, listen, this is what practice and training means.

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And I think if we can embrace the idea, okay, parenting with discipline requires, like you actually have to learn how to do this.

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It takes time. And I know that, you know, you and I have gotten better and agreed on how it's going to work.

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But our first few times at it, we're like, yeah, we're not good at this at all. This is hard. Or we don't agree on how it should be done.

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That's right. Yeah. I would say for sure, for me, sorry, for me personally, I was total behavior modification and reactionary.

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That was like what I was cultivating. And when we think about parents that are living in a kingdom, the

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Bible says that we are to raise our children to know, it says in the fear and admonition of the Lord, it means to know them and be in awe of who they are and what they're doing.

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So that's the cultivation we're going after. It's not do what I tell you to do, behave correct.

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It's know and see the Lord. And actually happens through our parenting. Yeah. So the second one is, um, consequences, this, uh, uh,

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I can spend a lot of time here because the next episode is going to deal with it. But when I think about discipline, it's not punishment.

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It's more teaching our children. This is how life works. Like you don't control the heart. You don't control your mind.

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They're actually consequences that God is designed to put in place. And we, the parents are the ones who actually have to teach them this.

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I know you have some thoughts on this because we were talking about it beforehand. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just, just in general, just the, the weightiness of understanding this, because the, like she says in the book, the world is a cruel teacher, right?

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So we have, um, we, we, we need to keep that in mind. Um, we have an enemy who is waiting for an opportunity.

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I mean, if we're still thinking like we talked about in the, in the introduction, if we're thinking about this as two kingdoms, right.

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Um, we, we really need to picture, like it says in first Peter five, eight, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.

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So on a spiritual level, like it is of utmost importance that we are teaching our children to observe things that they're doing and why, and even asking themselves, why am

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I doing this? Um, but also just to learn to obey, it keeps them safe.

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I know it's so hard when you're a mom, especially depending on how you grew up, you might have some, some, um, trauma or some bitterness that you fight with how your, your parents raised you.

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And so sometimes that can cause us, or if we're like in general peace seekers, we just want to keep the peace that can cause us to really just want to kind of back up and like,

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Oh, it's not that bad. Or, Oh, this is just a stage or, but, and, and sometimes that might be true, but for the most part, we need to really understand in a way that how much are we really helping them by not teaching them?

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There are boundaries in this, in this world. And when they don't recognize those and obey them, they're in danger.

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That's right. And why, why is their heart wanting to go against those boundaries? Cause it's always a moment of shepherding.

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So discipline, remember cultivation, we provide consequences because we're trying to cultivate.

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Why did my heart want to go against this law, against this rule? Where did it come from? And the consequences are used as a means to show,

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Hey, your heart's in resistance against the Lord. This is why even God has consequences, which is very different.

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There's a difference between a consequence and a punishment. So stay tuned. I know I'm advertising that, but you're really going to want to hear this in the next episode. So we're, so when

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I think of discipline, we're thinking about our, it's cultivation within that cultivation, we, we need to provide consequences.

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So our children understand the reality of their heart and the actions and the results that happens. And then lastly, this is so helpful for me when we think about discipline from a biblical standpoint, it's constructive, right?

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What's the opposite of constructive? It's not reactive, right? You're premeditating.

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You're thinking ahead of time. How am I going to then take the disaster they created and construct it for the sake of their benefit, right?

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Cause typically Justin, Justin, wow. Well, I got a lot of J's. Hello, Theocast.

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Typically Judith, parenting is done. You've inconvenienced me. You have embarrassed me.

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You frustrated me. Right. And then I'm reacting to that. That's the opposite of constructive.

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I love, I think Trip either, I think it was Paul Trip made this, this comment where he said, every time you child disobey, disobeys is

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God giving you the opportunity to show and shepherd their heart towards him. Like it's, we don't think about our child's disobedience as opportunities.

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I see them as inconvenience, embarrassing and frustrating. Right, right. And like you said, so much of the time it's reactive.

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One part she put in the introduction is straining your ears to hear past the tantrums. And I think,

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I think that's just a good picture of slowing down. When our kids are acting out or disobeying, really just slowing down to ask questions to ourselves so that we know best how to shepherd their heart in that moment.

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That being said, that takes work, that takes a slower process than just making them be quiet.

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So they'll stop either driving you crazy because you're trying to think, or so they'll stop embarrassing you in the middle of the store.

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It really takes a lot of humility and patience to stop what you're doing and look in their eyes and try to figure out where is this coming from in their heart.

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And I guess I'm really referring to, well, it's funny because I think toddlers and teenagers at this point, but I'm really referring to toddlers, you know, when, when they're too young sometimes to really be able to verbalize how they're feeling.

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We're still, it still benefits them and us if we try to take a moment and understand.

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And we've talked about this in past episodes, not having to do with this book, just of like, are they hungry?

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Are they tired? Those types of things. And then again, with teenagers, for those of you who have teenagers, just taking a minute, a minute to say, what's behind this outburst?

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What's behind this isolation? And really asking questions. Oh, so many mistakes

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I've made. I'm feeling guilty. Well, this really comes down to, so we've kind of set up the, well, this is what you need to do, but let's talk about how it's going to be done.

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And this is really kind of the latter part of the chapter. I'm going to give it some additional thoughts based upon some things that she said.

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Again, go and read it. But there's a, I will mention the title.

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When I first read it, I was like, oh, cringy. I don't know if I'm going to enjoy this title, this section. And it's called

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Disciplined Kids Means Disciplined Parents. We just, at times, just really don't like that word.

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I think maybe I don't, because I'm thinking legalistic rules that don't matter. But that's not what is being, if this is more, if I could probably reshape this idea in my own mind, is that it's value -based living and value -based parenting.

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What are you valuing? Because it will determine how you parent, right?

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So for instance, if the value, the greatest value I have is my comfort and my image, then that's going to come out in my parenting, right?

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Because you are degrading my image and you are degrading my pleasure. And you are the means of stopping that.

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And therefore, I need to remove that. I can hear parents at times are like, I can't wait for my kids to be old enough and out of the house.

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It's because your value is you. You're the greatest value. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing how

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God created it. But when we're thinking about disciplined kids means disciplined parents, that's all. So we're talking about how we can show that we're disciplined.

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Our response to life should show our kids that God is good and he is in control. And I think of that and I think of being a mom and all the things we go through all day long and the frustrations we have that don't even involve our children, but they're watching how we respond to them.

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Again, this is not to make you feel guilty about the outburst or the entire afternoon you spent complaining the other day.

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Of course, I'm not talking about myself. That would never happen. No, but just so you can understand and help prepare yourself in the future, purposing in your day that you are going to work on not complaining.

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You're going to work on being thankful in everything that day. I'm saying that because those are things that I have specifically prayed about this week for myself.

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And I have my fourth child and my oldest is going to be 20 in a couple of months. So this is just like they're, you know, parenting them takes years and years and years.

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And it's a long process. Ourselves and working on the things that guide them correctly is a constant work also.

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And I also think of marriage, like they're watching that, how John and I respond to each other when we are having a disagreement, when one of us needs help and the other one is busy or all of those things.

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I think that's a lot what we're pointing to here is about being disciplined. It takes disciplined parents. It does, and in marriage.

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And when we say discipline, it means to practice what you believe.

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Like I'll give you an example. Last night, I've had three late nights. I've been exhausted. There's a lot going on.

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I'm not communicating well at the dinner table. I'd like to sit next to Judith. I haven't seen her all day, so I could just talk to her and it did not come out right.

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It was just cranky. And I could realize that like about five minutes in or 10 minutes into dinner. And I'm like, I think

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I need to address this. I just told the kids like, look, I'm not making an excuse. I'm tired. And this goes to show you that we have to be careful.

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And I asked them to forgive me and I asked you to forgive me. I said, I shouldn't have spoke that way. That's kind of what we're talking about in that we're modeling grace and forgiveness.

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Like asking your children to forgive you is powerful because they see, wow, the very thing my parents want me to do is the thing that they do.

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They're modeling that, right? And that's because we want a home that's built on forgiveness and grace and mercy and kindness because of what

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God has given us. So that kind of goes back to the focus and the cultivation.

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We have to model it in our marriage. But then I'll just say it this way as a pastor, you have to have that being renewed in you.

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This is why your church is so powerful is that when you fail as a parent during the week, you got to be able to go and be restored and renewed, have your mind refreshed, reminding yourself that the failures of your parenting this week is not the outcome of your future, right?

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Your future is resting in Christ. And so we go back to him, we're renewed in him, we're refreshed in him.

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And then we take that back to our children. And for, especially for the moms who are in the throes of littles right now, or I'll even say moms like me who have several teenagers, because again, toddlers and teenagers, a lot of difference, but one thing is very similar.

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They have big, big feelings. And so sometimes that can feel very similar, especially if you're like me, where you take other people's emotions on,

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I would really stress the importance of making sure you are having time away sometime during the day where you can have silence.

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I know that is not always possible. And I'm not talking about getting out for coffee every day. I'm just talking about being purposeful, about filling your soul, your body, making,

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I mean, these are very practical things, making sure you ate, making sure you drink, just getting away and maybe listening to a chapter of the

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Bible while you drink a cup of tea. I mean, we're all filled different ways, but either way, taking time to make sure that you are having truth poured into, yes, on Sundays, yes, at church, yes, women's group, those types of things, but sometimes you need it every day.

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And so just remembering that, I know it's kind of an obvious thing, but when you get in the busy throes of everything and you are surrounded by people 24 seven,

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I think it's important to really realize what a power source that can be for you to just go in your room and close the door if you can, even for just 15 minutes and renew your spirit that way.

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Yeah. And dads can be really helpful here when you get home or in the mornings. So get creative.

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I just want to close this chapter. We're beginning kind of the throes of walking through this.

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So don't be discouraged. There's a lot more to learn, but I found this so helpful, so powerful.

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And she brought this up in the book. And so I'll just make mention to it here. You can go read her whole thoughts. The idea of what we're doing can remember this is discipline.

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We're cultivating something. We're talking about the ultimate aim and mission is to change and implant these kids heart so they love

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Christ. Right. But we're not in charge of that. We have to rely on the spirit's power. A couple of verses that are helpful here.

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This is Proverbs 22 six, train up a child in the way he should go. And when he is old, he will not depart from it.

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Now that verse is often used as behavior. I do not believe this is what it means is talking about the training.

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The training will not depart from them, meaning that the truth you've implanted into their heart will leave them.

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The word of God does not return void. And I think that's the hope behind it. Often this verse is used like discipline your children, right?

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And they will be good when they get older. I don't think that's what he's meaning. It's meaning trust the words, trust the truth that you put in because you don't know at what point

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God will use it to shape and mold them. Right. And one other verse, then I'll let you have some final thoughts.

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This is Paul writing to Timothy, who is probably one of the most famous prolific pastors in the

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New Testament. He says in second Timothy one five, I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that was first in your grandmother,

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Lois, and in your mother, Eunice. And now I am sure dwells in you as well. Peter's I'm sorry,

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Paul is giving a wonderful compliment to the grandmother and the mother saying they implanted

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God's truth into you. And it's evidence because I can see it in you. And there's just a hope in that saying there's a purpose behind what we're doing.

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And if we could gain that in the plan ahead of time, not behavior modification, but a change of heart.

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And we want to implant the truth into their hearts. Yeah. And like she says, it's a long discipline.

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Parenting is a long term commitment. And I think it was very freeing to me when she talked about how we don't know how they're going to turn out.

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And that's OK because it's not really our business. We are to faithfully take on the responsibility that God has given us as parents.

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We are to faithfully every day, build them up and, you know, cultivate.

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And trust that God is going to do what's best for them. God is going to do what he needs to do to accomplish his will in their life.

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And I just felt like that was really freeing because I don't know if it's because as a homeschool mom, but there's just so much pressure because I am their main influence in everything they know.

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But it feels like it's all on us and it's not. That's right. And that is a huge relief.

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I feel like sometimes the more control I give up, the better it feels. So just remembering that God is building them up and that he's going to accomplish his will in them.

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And we just need to be faithful helpers with that. I love your illustration. This is my last thought.

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When a missionary goes to a mission field, which your home is an absolute mission field, they have to trust in the power of the gospel to change the hearts of the people.

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Right. But they need to love them sacrificially, do what's right and best for them. And that's exactly what our home should look like.

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We're giving them God's word, but we have a unique and special way in that they're under our guidance and under our responsibility and that we need to care for them.

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But don't ever forget that this is the ultimate aim. This is a mission field to develop their minds and their hearts to know the

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Lord. So. All right. Well, that was longer than we wanted, but there's a lot to say. Next episode is going to be shorter because it's a shorter chapter.

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Thank you guys for listening. And yeah, if you have any questions, let us know. We look forward to hearing from you and we'll talk soon.