January 21, 2021 Show with Ryan Denton & Joe Jacowitz on “Even If None: Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism” (Part 2)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday. On this 21st day of January 2021, and I'm thrilled to have back on the program to begin part two of a discussion that we began,

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I believe it was in November of 2020, and this guest that has returned today is

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Ryan Denton, and he was a pastor on the Navajo reservation before starting

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Christ in the Wild Ministries, which he has directed since 2016, and we are going to be joined,

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God willing, at some point during the broadcast, by Joe Jackowitz, founder of First Love Radio, First Love Publications, and First Love Missions, and today we are going to be addressing

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Ryan's book, Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, and as I said, this is a part two of the discussion that we began back in November, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Ryan Denton.

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Yes, sir, it's great to be back on, privilege. Well, tell our listeners again about Christ in the

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Wild Ministries. Sure, so it is a, it's intentionally, it's evangelism that's intentionally done outside the church, college campuses, downtown areas, abortion clinics, we go to, sometimes jails actually started out in jail ministry, and somebody actually pointed out to me the other day, considering the way our culture is going, that I started my ministry doing jail ministry, and I might end doing jail ministry one day, so, from the inside, though, so we basically go wherever the lost are, we try to preach the gospel and get them tracts and literature, whatever they need, and try to funnel them into a good local church somewhere, and yeah, we've been doing it for about five years, we're based out of Texas, but travel, so,

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I don't, everywhere, so that's what we do. Praise God, and the website for anybody interested in investigating that further is christinthewild .com,

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christinthewild .com, and I understand that Joe Jackowitz should be joining us soon, he somehow lost the phone number, so I am sending that to him again.

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So, this book that you have written, which has been published by First Love Publications, and it is a book that actually is obviously high enough quality that my dear friend,

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Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kibwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, wrote the forward to it, and I know that Conrad would never have done that unless he thought very, very highly of this book, not to mention the fact that you also received commendations with other prestigious brethren like Dr.

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Tom J. Nettles, Justin Peters, and Sai Ten Bruggencate, but, and I know that we've just been joined by Joe Jackowitz of First Love Radio, First Love Publications, and First Love Missions.

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It's great to have you on, Joe. Great to be back with you and Ryan and the gang. Amen, and let's hear about First Love Radio, the station on which this program livestreams.

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First Love Radio is a 24 -hour, 7 -day -a -week radio station on the

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Internet, and Iron Sharpens Iron anchors our 24 -7 programming.

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This show, which we are so pleased to have Chris and your show do that, it's growing, and a lot of people are tuning in all around the world and being fed with various truths from God's Word, and we have a variety of programs, preaching, teaching programs.

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We have music. We've got quite a few, and you can find that program schedule at FirstLoveRadio .org.

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That's FirstLoveRadio .org, and click on the programming schedule. We've got teachers like Martin Lloyd -Jones,

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Peter Masters, Al Martin, and many, many others that most of your listeners should recognize, and so that's

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First Love Radio. And First Love Publications? First Love Publications has been around for about 15 years, 16 years.

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We publish mainly books. We also have tracks and booklets. We have about 60 titles and growing.

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We give those away free of charge. We've distributed about 300 ,000 books since 2006 all over the world, mainly in the continental

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United States because the postage is so high overseas. And we have a website,

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FirstLovePublications .org. FirstLovePublications .org. Our catalog is on the site, and you can just scan through and see what we have.

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Many authors, some contemporary, some from the last century, and so those books are given away free of charge, although we do accept donations.

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And last but not least, tell us about First Love Missions. First Love Missions, we've been going on short -term mission trips since 1994 to countries like Nigeria, the

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Philippines, Nepal, India, and Kenya, and other countries.

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And we go in for a week or two, and we present a pastor's conference or a

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Bible conference at churches and at other places, universities. And we bring our

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First Love publications with us, usually 1 ,000 books or so, and we give them away free of charge.

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We preach on subjects that are critical to pastors. We give a survey of the major doctrines that pastors need to be versed in, an overview of pastoral theology, shepherding, hermeneutics, systematic theology, and preaching, counseling, discipleship.

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Many pastors overseas don't have much or any theological training or a library to speak of, maybe a

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Bible and a concordance. And so we'll go in and we'll give them a stack of books to use as references for their studies, and we will give them an overview of every major discipline of the pastoral ministry.

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But also we preach at churches, we have Bible conferences in churches and universities on different themes, mainly the gospel, because the gospel has virtually disappeared in most places of the world.

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So we'll do that usually two, three, four times a year. We'll host these conferences, that is, host churches.

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We'll bring us in and then we will supervise the conference and supply the speakers.

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We'll usually go in with a team of three, four, five pastors and two or three other Christian workers.

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We'll go in for a week or ten days or two weeks, and then we'll be out. We've been doing that for like 25 years.

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Praise God. And can all of this information be found at the

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First Love Radio website, or do you... Yes, well we have a main website address, which is

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FirstLoveMinistries .org FirstLoveMinistries Yes, dot org.

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But then if you go to the individual websites, you can also go to those specific websites directly.

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FirstLovePublications .org, FirstLoveMissions .org, FirstLoveRadio .org

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Now, did you change those URLs? Because one of them was not quite so easy the last time we spoke.

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Yeah, we're working on it. I'll put it to you that way. We're working. Well, I know that FirstLoveRadio .org

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works because I'm looking right at it. Right, that's good. Because I think you had to word one of the websites differently because it was already taken or something, but anyway.

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Right, it was dot com, I think. No, it was a total reversal of the wording or something.

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But anyway, go to FirstLoveRadio .org and you'll get in touch with whoever you need to get in touch with.

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And going back to the book, Ryan, that FirstLove Publications has brought into print, even if none,

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Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, if you could, for our listeners who are hearing you the first time, who didn't hear the last interview on this book, why don't you give us a summary of what the book is about and what compelled you to write the book to begin with?

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So the book is about the motive for evangelism and how to gauge whether or not evangelism is successful.

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And really, I guess what inspired the book is, you know, like we mentioned earlier, the ministry that I'm involved in, we go and we're preaching in some really dry area, like the college campus and downtown areas, where you're not seeing a ton of interest in the things of God, but it seems to be that that's just the

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American scene right now. And so the ground is hard and we're casting the gospel out there and we're not seeing a ton of conversion.

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And, you know, good biblical churches are not seeing a ton of growth, even though there is some and we do see some conversion.

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Evangelism is, you know, of course it's never enough, but it's certainly, we're not talking about an abundance here.

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And so a lot of times the question comes up, well, is it successful and is it worth doing and should we be doing something else?

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So the book is about not just evangelism, but even, let's say, church growth and what our motive should be and what our principle should be when we are evangelizing.

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And so churches, you know, they're not growing, so what do they do? Well, they bring in a different type of music.

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In fact, I was just talking to somebody today. We were out at Texas A &M evangelizing and one of the kids, he said, well,

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I go to Central Church and I had driven by that church and I said, oh,

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Central Baptist Church. And he said, no, we dropped the Baptist name because it put people on edge, that word

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Baptist. So it's similar to that, you know, in the sense of saying, okay, we have to cultivate a church culture or even an evangelistic outreach that's structured around what people desire and, you know, explicitly what lost people desire.

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And otherwise we're not going to see a lot of quote -unquote success. So the book is about, well, what does the

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Bible say? And what does the Bible say about church growth and evangelism and what is successful and what's not successful?

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And so looking at Scripture and also looking at a lot of church history and the early church, you know, where they were going out and they were seeing a lot of growth in the church, but they were also being persecuted and killed and they were having their houses plundered like we see in the

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Hebrews. And so was that considered successful? You know, if you go out and you evangelize or whatnot, and I'm not saying we should, you know, try to intentionally be arrested or something, but what if, you know, like in the early church, they're out there and all the

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Christians get rounded up and they're thrown into the arena, are they successful? You know, did it work?

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And of course, from the world's perspective and from a pragmatics perspective, that did not work because you just watched a light doing it.

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And so, again, the question is, how do we gauge successful evangelism?

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And, you know, just to put the spoiler out there, it's not conversions. That's not how you base successful evangelism.

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Although we want conversions, we pray for them, and we see them, that is not the accurate gauge.

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The accurate gauge is faithfulness to the gospel because God gives the increase and we don't.

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Yes, those outside of the Reformed faith, well -intentioned as they may be, they view evangelism and they even view the death of Christ itself as having as its main goal, its first goal, its primary goal, its premier goal, man, the salvation of man.

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And although, obviously, we who are biblically informed and spirit -filled, and I don't mean in a charismatic sense, those of us who embrace historic

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Calvinism or the Reformed faith as the vast majority of its heroes would have believed and taught, we must and we do, and we have a passion for urging and pleading with the lost to repent and come to Christ.

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And we have a zeal to proclaim

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Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, and Christ being the one and only hope for salvation.

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We do have this burden and we do have this zeal and joy in proclaiming the gospel to the lost, but that is not the primary goal of evangelism or of the death of Christ, is it?

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Yeah. Amen. Yeah. And, you know, when it comes to theology, a big emphasis on the book is theology because the problem with all of this, what we're seeing in a lot of churches in America, and I see it especially with evangelistic methodologies, it's definitely pragmatic, and that definitely comes down to theology.

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And so, in other words, whereas if you're Reformed and you're saying, okay,

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God is, He has, let's use the word elect, right? He has His elect out there, and He has

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His sheep out there, and He saves the elect through the preaching of the cross. And if they're not elect, they're not going to believe it.

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We don't know who they are. We don't know, you know, it's like Spurgeon said, we can't lift shirts and see a yellow

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X on their back, so we go and we preach it to everybody. And if nobody gets saved in a certain batch of people that we're talking to or preaching to, we don't have to try something else.

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We just say, okay, well, they must not be of the elect. Or we can say, well, they might be of the elect and they might get saved somewhere down the road, but we're not going to try to do something differently.

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Whereas if you're not Reformed, you're saying, okay, if they don't get saved, then it's because they didn't do it, or maybe

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I didn't do it in the right way. And so there's this pressure,

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I guess, I don't know how else to put it, there's a pressure on me because I have to manufacture this, because it's up to us.

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God's done everything He can. He's made it to where anybody can be saved, but now it's up to us to make it happen.

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And so if the gospel's not working, now I've got to try something else, or I've got to water down the gospel, and I've got to bring other things into it and try that.

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And of course that's where you get the watered -down churches, you get the, you know, anything that's offensive to the lost, remove it, don't speak about it, don't tell them about it, you know, because we're trying to do everything we can to get them in, as opposed to just trusting in God and knowing

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He saves through the full counsel of the cross being preached. So it's a huge difference and it's a huge issue right now, especially in our culture and probably around the world, assuming that Americans are exporting

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Armenian Gospels into the world. I mean, so that's why Brother Conrad of Bayway and others, you know, in Africa and other places,

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I mean, this is an issue for them too. Yeah, but going back to what I was just saying though, it's not the primary goal of evangelism to bring praise, honor, and glory to God, even if not one single soul is saved, and that is because the primary goal, intention, mission of the

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Son when He died on the cross was to bring praise, honor, and glory to the Father. Yeah, and any time

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Christ is preached, He's worshipped, He's glorified. I mean, evangelism in itself, I just read a message a few months ago, or yeah, about a month ago, on the fact that the primary goal of evangelism is worship.

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Like, it's, you know, worship, if you look at Matthew 28, where the disciples, the first thing they do when they see

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Christ, right before He gives the Great Commission mandate, they begin with worship.

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They saw Him, and they worship Him, and then He tells them, you know, go out into all the world, and all authority in heaven and on earth belong to Me.

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Go therefore. But it begins with worship, and that's the same thing with us. And so even when we're out there though, yeah, the purpose is to worship

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Him. Exactly right, and to glorify Him. And every time you preach about Christ, it brings glory to God, whether or not anything happens.

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And that's why, yeah, the title is, Even If None. It still glorifies God. And Joe Jackowitz, do you have anything to add?

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Yeah, I think worship is a critical element to evangelism, especially when you're in need of motivation and inspiration to evangelize.

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Ryan's point about the Great Commission and worship is well taken. We also see that when

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Peter denied the Lord and he was recommissioned in John 21, first Jesus asked him three times,

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Peter, do you love me? And so the reaffirmation of Peter's love for Christ and that heart bond with Christ lies at the heart of Peter's recommissioning.

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And that's why it's critical that the springboard of our missions and evangelistic zeal be from the love of God, be rooted in worship.

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And where the Holy Spirit rekindles deep, deep dedication and consecration to the

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Lord, coming from that renewal of that love bond with the

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Lord, there's no greater motivation. As we read in 2 Corinthians 5, the love of Christ constrains me.

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If all we do is become trained in our mission schools and candidate for seven years as missionaries or train in evangelism and just go out and go through the motions mechanically, we've lost sight of the ultimate goal in evangelism, which is to have people come into a saving relationship with Christ and worship

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Him. And the same thing is true when it comes to methodology for evangelists, street preachers, pastors, any

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Christian, is the best framework in which to serve in evangelism and missions and the best springboard is that love relationship with Christ that is renewed by the power of the

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Holy Spirit in our personal walk with Him. By the way,

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I do want to get back to the confusion over your website earlier.

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It seems that at least at one time, it's still an active website, but your

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First Love Missions website was missionsfirstlove .org. That's why

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I was saying it was a reversal of words, but it appears you now do have firstlovemissions .com

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as well. Yes, we had to find those website addresses that were available that actually had our name.

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But we also realized that since we have four organizations, the fourth one isn't being promoted yet because we're still making preparations, which is an educational institution to train pastors and believers in the word,

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Grace Bible University online. But we wanted a centralized website where everyone can go and then have those four organizations clearly listed on the homepage and people can go from there and customize for their own desire which area of specialty they want, whether it be publications, missions, or radio.

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So we have firstloveministries .org that brings all four of them into play.

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Great. That will make it a lot easier for people just to have to remember the one website. I'm going to give our listeners our email address because we have to go to our first break.

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It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you disagree with your own pastor over some theological issue we are discussing or perhaps you're a pastor.

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You even disagree with your own elders. You disagree with your denomination or the predominant number of members in your church where you pastor.

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But other than that, please, if it's just a general question on theology, doctrine, history, preaching, evangelism, the gospel, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Ryan Denton and Joe Jackowitz right after these messages from our sponsors.

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We are now back with our guest today, Ryan Denton and Joe Jackowitz.

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Ryan Denton is the author of a book we are addressing today, Even if None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism.

37:03

Joe Jackowitz is the founder of First Love Radio, First Love Publications and First Love Missions, and he's also the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California.

37:15

If you have a question that you'd like to ask our guests on evangelism, the email address is chrissonzen at gmail .com.

37:24

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

37:34

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

37:40

And we do have a listener named Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

37:47

A very faithful listener and a very generous supporter financially of this program.

37:53

He says, Greetings, brothers. With most of the social media controlled by secularists, do you see that form of evangelism being shut down?

38:03

And I guess we'll start with Ryan on that. What's the very first part of that,

38:09

Chris? He says, let's see, with most of social media being controlled by secularists, do you see that form of evangelism being shut down?

38:24

Yeah, that's, well, um, that's an unusual but very important method of evangelism, obviously.

38:34

You know, it's not mainstream necessarily. I mean, you don't see many church conferences on how to evangelize via social networking.

38:46

But I don't know much about that, to be honest. You know,

38:51

I have Twitter and I have Facebook. I don't usually do a lot of evangelism on there.

38:56

However, there is obviously, I mean, it's white for the harvest on there, for those who have time for that.

39:02

But I would assume that we're always going to have some kind of outlets to reach lost people on when we're talking about technology.

39:12

So I wouldn't be concerned about that. You know, I just think it'll be fine, at least for a few years.

39:19

Now, I think what he might be asking is what about issues like, let's say,

39:26

LGBTQ stuff or transgender. I guess that falls under that.

39:32

But, you know, things that are against cultural norms right now. And so whether or not you'll be able to address those issues, that would be another topic.

39:40

So I think you'll still have a platform, but as far as how you go about doing that, yeah, we might need to be discerning about how to go about that.

39:52

Because I'm assuming like in England, you'll see clips every now and then of people being fined or even arrested in the

40:00

UK and I think Australia and places like that for saying derogatory things, you know, about the certain groups.

40:08

And so there might be something like that. But I think for right now, we're okay, and I think there'll be a way to share the gospel while also not having to explicitly mention that and still not compromise on the gospel, if that makes sense.

40:23

Anything to add, Pastor Jackowitz? Yeah, well, I would add that I think it's a very simple equation.

40:31

The Church has never been dependent on anything to share the gospel.

40:36

The Church has always been persecuted and pressurized not to share the gospel in any setting.

40:42

But it is indeed a concern right now with Google and Facebook and Twitter heavily involved in censorship, and we've seen that in recent months, how the secular media and even now with the new government coming into fruition, and it's a big concern.

41:03

But again, no believer is locked in to using social media and their platforms as the only means, or one of the only means of evangelism.

41:14

Actually, it should not be the main means. We should be using our godly lifestyle as well as the preaching and sharing of the gospel, the gospel message itself, as the primary means of communicating the good news of salvation through Christ.

41:33

And so, what did we do as a Church before social media came into existence 20 years ago or before that?

41:41

So, we're not dependent on social media. If they take it away from us, the outlets and the platforms, if Facebook and Twitter and Google begin to clamp down and not allow

41:54

Christians to share the gospel on social media any longer, and we're accused of being narrow -minded and limited, oh, that's okay, we'll just share it face -to -face or through word -of -mouth like we did before.

42:10

So, we should not be locked in to social media, but we should use it as much as we can, as long as we have an open door to it.

42:20

Great, well, thank you, Grady. And you have won a free copy of the book that we are discussing, and that is

42:29

Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, and we want to thank

42:35

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for shipping these books out to our winners at cvbbs .com,

42:43

and of course we want to thank First Love Publications for providing the books, and make sure we have your full mailing address in Nashville, North Carolina.

42:52

Grady, we have an anonymous listener, and he is saying here,

42:59

I have been getting into some heated arguments ever since the loss of the election for President Trump because of the fact that I believe that he was robbed of his presidency, and I believe that the election of Joe Biden was a total fraud, but the reason why this is connecting to your topic today is that in this day and age of even greater hostility over political issues and social and moral issues than I have ever seen in my lifetime, what is a unique way of bringing the gospel to those around us that you could give us counsel to imitate and explore?

43:51

Well, I would... Can I go first, Chris? Yes. We need to be careful when we talk about unique ways.

44:01

I'm not sure if I understand what he means by that term, because believers, pastors, and churches get into trouble when they begin to invent creative and unique ways of sharing the gospel that fall outside the boundaries of accuracy to the biblical message of the gospel.

44:17

To give him or her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he or she meant finding unique opportunities and using...

44:31

I guess this would be an appropriate way to use imagination, not that you're changing the gospel or biblically -ordained methodology of proclaiming the gospel, but looking for new opportunities in ways that didn't necessarily present themselves before.

44:49

Well, I would say that there are more opportunities and different platforms and devices we can use today than the history of evangelism, because of social media.

45:04

I would take advantage of social media. That's a legitimate way. Any legitimate way that you can.

45:11

Texting, emailing, the phone, the telephone, the

45:17

Zoom, you can have Bible studies on Zoom where you can teach unsaved people in small groups, Bible studies, the gospel.

45:24

There are so many different ways electronically and legitimately to share the gospel, besides the time -honored traditional ways of just holding

45:34

Bible studies with people. I would caution Christians not to get distracted by all the heat and all the argumentation that's taking place because of the device of politics that's taking place in our land.

45:47

We can easily get distracted and get caught up in political disputes and debates, and then we lose our

45:53

Christian testimony when we get angry and start doing the name -calling and all of that. I would just focus on living a godly life, a holy life by the power of the

46:03

Holy Spirit and sharing the gospel in every legitimate way that we can.

46:10

And this political season has clearly shown how easy it is for Christians to fall into the snare and trap of getting sidetracked by thinking that the

46:21

Democrats are the enemy and the Republicans are the good guys. It couldn't be farther from the truth because whether it be a

46:28

Democrat, Republican, Independent, Conservative, anyone who is lost needs to be saved, needs to hear the gospel.

46:36

We don't gauge whether we're going to share the gospel with someone based on what political party they identify with.

46:43

We're not looking to produce Republican moralists and get them more ethically on the right path.

46:54

We're looking for conversions. Sin is the enemy. Satan is the enemy. The world is the enemy.

46:59

And these three enemies have people bogged down as slaves of sin and we need regeneration.

47:05

We need the new birth. We need the power of the gospel to come in and to liberate them from slavery to sin.

47:12

So, I would focus on using every legitimate outlet and gateway and gift and skill of communication that God has given you to share the gospel.

47:24

If you're awkward in sharing the gospel, if you're fearful, if you tend to be naturally timid, then

47:30

I would pray for strength and for courage and for boldness as a believer.

47:36

But I would use your gift of writing. If you're a good writer but you just have a hard time face to face, make a list of everybody you know that's not a believer.

47:45

Start writing letters or just write a one page or two page letter with the gospel in it and then just put everybody's name individually, customize it for each person you know and email it to them or mail it to them through snail mail.

48:01

There's so many different ways you could share the gospel before or today than before.

48:07

And Ryan, perhaps this is something to do with the listener's question.

48:14

In fact, the listener can even send in an additional email with a clarification. But the lines are being more sharply drawn in our world over especially perhaps social and moral issues.

48:35

And political parties tend, not always, but they tend to lean towards one side or another when it comes to the social and moral divide in this country.

48:51

There are some things that both ends of the aisle, sides of the aisle would view as immoral and would demand and expect from society as being moral.

49:05

But there are obviously many things like the murder of unborn children, the marriage of men to men and women to women, which we obviously don't even recognize as marriage because it's not marriage.

49:25

Transgender issues, which is also a fiction. A biological male is always going to be a biological male.

49:33

A biological female is always going to be a biological female. But when these issues are so much in the forefront of the media and what's going on in the world today, there are some

49:46

Christians that may even agree with us theologically that say, you've got to keep politics as a totally separate thing and our main mission in life as Christians is to declare the gospel of Jesus Christ, to declare his word.

50:09

And then you have others who would agree with that to a degree, but they would say, we cannot compromise however, on being opposed and boldly and passionately opposing murder of unborn children, of sodomy, which is an unnatural and damnable, abominable sin, and on and on we could go.

50:39

And so therefore, you have those that think it is best to keep those issues out of a conversation, whereas others say, no,

50:49

I mean, the Bible wasn't silent on those issues. The only thing that would come close is transgenderism, but obviously it would fall under the category of sexual immorality for certain, because you're not even allowed to dress in the clothing of the opposite gender, let alone having surgery to, in your mind, become the opposite gender.

51:16

But if you could, these are very tough issues that Christians face. If you could, in fact, you know what

51:23

I'm going to do, since we are so close to our midway break? I'm going to have you answer that, or respond to that, when we come back from our midway break.

51:33

If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, chrisarnson at gmail .com

51:38

chrisarnson at gmail .com Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

51:45

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

51:51

I understand our last listener remained anonymous because his question involved personal conflict he's having with people who are close to him.

52:03

So, by the way, that last anonymous listener, you are also a winner of today's book, even if none,

52:14

Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, so make sure you get us your mailing address so that cvbbs .com

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you. But anybody else would like to join us on the air?

52:27

chrisarnson at gmail .com Remember folks, this is the middle break in the show and therefore, it's the longer break that we have in the show because we are required to have this break longer to accommodate

52:41

Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, because they are compelled by the

52:47

FCC to localize their programming, including Iron Sherpa's Iron, to Lake City, Florida, geographically.

52:55

Therefore, they air during this break their own public service announcements and other local things while we simultaneously air our global commercials, commercials that are heard everywhere.

53:07

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which will hopefully mean that they will be happy enough to keep renewing their advertising contracts, which will also hopefully mean that we will remain on the air for a longer future because we absolutely, positively depend upon our advertisers to exist.

53:30

So please, especially if you're listening to this on a recording, don't always fast forward through the commercials.

53:37

Please don't do that because we depend upon our advertisers and we want you to patronize them. And if you can't patronize them, at least respond to them and thank them for sponsoring the show if indeed you love the show.

53:51

And also send in questions for Ryan Denton and Joe Jackowitz on Evangelism.

53:57

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away, we'll be right back.

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01:13:35

to 12 p .m. at New Hope Bible Church in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania. Pastor Joe Jackowitz, I happen to know that you have seen and heard

01:13:46

Votie Baucom, because I've been at the same conferences on occasion where he has been on the roster.

01:13:51

If you want to put in your own two cents about our dear brother, Dr. Votie Baucom. Well, as you say,

01:13:59

I agree with your endorsement. He's a very faithful brother to scripture, very orthodox and biblical in his teaching, and from, like you said, he's a very powerful preacher.

01:14:11

So we certainly can follow suit with your recommendation. Great. And that's

01:14:19

Central PA Church Leadership Conference, and you will find out all the information you need about this conference,

01:14:27

Exposing and Refuting Critical Race Theory, with speaker Dr. Votie Baucom, and that's

01:14:34

Thursday, January 28th, 8 a .m. to 12 noon, at New Hope Bible Church in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania.

01:14:41

And if you want to make it easier for yourself, you can just send in an email to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

01:14:52

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. And I just realized that the

01:14:57

Facebook page would be

01:15:03

Central PA Reformation Society. Central PA Reformation Society, and the event is the

01:15:11

Central Pennsylvania Church Leadership Conference. So try to remember that.

01:15:16

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01:18:14

Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live,

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01:18:31

If they did know they existed, sometimes they didn't know that they were biblically sound. So, I may be able to help you, no matter where you live.

01:18:39

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01:18:47

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And put I Need Your Church in the subject line. It's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest today,

01:18:57

Ryan Denton and Pastor Joe Jakowicz. And this is the second interview we are doing, part two, if you will, of our discussion on Ryan Denton's book,

01:19:08

Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism. And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:19:16

And Ryan, as you heard me saying before the break, I wanted you to address how we are to remain faithful to biblical truth while proclaiming the gospel, and how are we faithful to God and the scriptures in that tension that exists between, on the one hand, not wanting anything to dilute or cloud or eclipse the gospel, but at the other end of the spectrum, not sweeping things under the rug as would make life much easier for many of us to remain silent about things like the murder of unborn children, like the wicked and damnable sin of sodomy, etc.,

01:20:06

etc. How do we go about in the 21st century, especially when these issues have become more and more like heated issues, to the point of people losing careers and being, who knows what's down the road, being fined, and we don't even know how bad these things are going to get.

01:20:25

We might even be in prison for opposing so -called women's health rights by being against abortion and being against homosexuality, etc.

01:20:39

Tell us about what your thoughts are on evangelism in the midst of this climate. Well, emotionally,

01:20:46

I think it's difficult right now to distance yourself from becoming overheated, and I think that's the first warning that I would say, you know,

01:21:02

I think for myself as well. In other words, the temptation is, because things are so polarized, and these topics are no longer just isolated, let's say political issues, you know, where you can just kind of have a, you know, we should be able to do this, but it's just not that way right now.

01:21:24

It doesn't seem like, you know, where you can just have a civilized discussion, maybe even a debate or, you know, some kind of friendly argument about an issue.

01:21:33

But, you know, obviously, as we all know, that things are so polarized now that if you approach, let's say, someone who's on the other political spectrum as you are and you approach them, it's hard to see them as someone who is not an enemy.

01:21:52

You know, they're not enemies in the sense of they are an enemy to the

01:21:57

Gospel, they're an enemy to the Church, they're an enemy to God, etc. But when we bring the

01:22:03

Gospel to them, I think it's very easy to allow ourselves to see them as an enemy of ourselves.

01:22:11

You know, like, in other words, you know, just like any time we evangelize, we should be motivated by a love for that person.

01:22:20

And it's difficult to love people in today's climate. I think that's the thing.

01:22:26

It's just difficult to love the neighbor across the street who puts out the signs that we don't like or, you know, they have the issues that oppose ours, and it's difficult to love that person.

01:22:38

And I think that's the first thing that we have to watch out for, you know, in this culture that we live in.

01:22:44

So, when we do approach them with the Gospel, we're seeing them as someone who, I mean, we would be as lost as they are before the grace of God.

01:22:55

And, you know, this Gospel is the power of God and the salvation to save them, and that's what they need.

01:23:01

And it's so easy to get, on the one hand, distracted by issues. I think Pastor Joe earlier made a great point, you know, where it's, you know, don't get distracted.

01:23:11

It's easy to get distracted into issues like whatever political thing is going on.

01:23:17

However, on the other side, like you're mentioning, Chris, these issues are Gospel issues.

01:23:22

You know, abortion is a Gospel issue. Injustice in the streets or in the political system, that's a

01:23:30

Gospel issue. And so, you know, the LGBTQ stuff, that's a Gospel issue. And so, on the other hand, it is to say that these things do need to be exposed and brought to light and bringing the

01:23:45

Gospel to light on those issues, you know, to bear on those issues. And so, in other words, we need to stay focused, but really examining ourselves to make sure we're doing this in the right motive.

01:23:58

In other words, if I'm talking to somebody, and I know the Gospel is so easy to, we were talking last time about presuppositional apologetics, which is beautiful.

01:24:07

It's so easy to debunk and to prove the inconsistency of things like LGBTQ and even, you know, we were talking today how really

01:24:19

Christians alone have the basis for saying black lives matter as far as the sentence goes, you know.

01:24:26

So, in other words, do we look at someone, anyone, and we know that people have value because they're made in God's image.

01:24:35

And the non -Christian can't say that. For the non -Christian, no one has value. And so, we have the truth.

01:24:42

We have a Gospel. We have a Bible that will expose the error of what we're seeing in our culture today.

01:24:48

And it's really easy to debunk these errors. And however, it's almost like if I see these people as my enemy, when

01:24:55

I go to them and I'm exposing their worldview, it's almost like if I don't have the right motive and I forget that I'm trying to win their souls.

01:25:05

You know, I want them to know Jesus Christ. I want them to love me. I want them to sit next to me and worship the same

01:25:11

God that I'm worshiping in heaven. You know, and if I'm going there and seeing them as my political enemy, then it's a lot more difficult, you know.

01:25:21

And I think it's so easy in our culture. I mean, it's so easy for anybody to get caught up in it where we're no longer seeing people as people, but for the grace of God, they would be just like, well, we would be just like them.

01:25:37

And so, that's the first thing, I think, you know, to have the right motive. And then secondly, to make sure that when we are bringing the

01:25:47

Gospel on these issues that we remember that we want to win them to Christ.

01:25:52

And we don't want to win the argument. That's easy. It's so easy, right? We want to win them. And so, those two things are very difficult to do in our climate, but we have to do that.

01:26:01

We have to keep that in our minds. And, Joe Jackiewicz, anything further to add?

01:26:09

I would add to that, we need to make sure that everything about the way we communicate the

01:26:15

Gospel conforms to the very message that we're communicating. So, in our tone, in our demeanor, we need to make sure we're very gentle and loving, that we don't get caught up in disputes and arguments over minor things, that we have grace and strength from God to reign in heat, to make sure that we're putting forth light and to reign in the heat, and that we, if the more we can understand the

01:26:45

Gospel message in its details, in its finer points, especially the doctrines of the cross, the more comfortable and relaxed we'll be in understanding where a person is coming from, so that we don't have to knee -jerk react based on ignorance.

01:27:02

And so, I think a thorough and deep knowledge of the Gospel will help us in communicating.

01:27:11

We don't have to linger on addressing these sins of our culture,

01:27:17

LGBTQ, and all of these other things. Yeah, there's a place to bring the Gospel in to address them, but if I had 30 minutes to share with someone who's a homosexual or LBGQ, I would spend 30 seconds on addressing the sin and what the

01:27:37

Bible says about that sin. I would communicate that in the most loving, gentle manner as possible.

01:27:45

Thirdly, I would use my own experience and my own vantage point and frame of reference as a sinner, even though there may not have been or there isn't a sin of homosexuality,

01:27:59

I would identify with the person as a sinner, so that he or she doesn't get the impression

01:28:05

I'm talking down to them with a holier -than -thou attitude in a condescending way.

01:28:12

And I would spend 29 and a half minutes focusing on Christ and Christ crucified.

01:28:20

That's what I would do. Because we don't want to beat people up too much with the law.

01:28:26

The law never saved anyone. Yes, we have to call out sin, and we have to identify the sin, and we have to paint a picture of its blackness and its vileness from the perspective of Scripture.

01:28:40

But I would dwell mostly on the cross and on Christ, because Jesus said,

01:28:46

When I be lifted up, I will draw all men to myself. We do have to call out the sins of our culture, but we need to maintain all the other rules and principles in sharing the gospel that all believers of every generation had to maintain, which is to focus on Christ, make sure our character and the way we communicate the gospel conforms to the law of love, and so forth.

01:29:13

Yes, I think a key thing, and not that everything you said was important, but a key thing

01:29:19

I believe that you said, because of the temptation to do otherwise in this climate, this heated climate, is that we must never, as Christians, give the impression to the lost that we think that we are innately better, and that we and our friends, and our conservative friends, and our

01:29:44

Republican friends, and our Libertarian friends, are better than they are.

01:29:52

Be like us, join us, and all will be right. We have to make sure that we present the gospel being very clear, open, and honest, that we are sinners saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone.

01:30:07

We have discovered the cure, as it were, to this disease that destroys all of humanity, and we, out of love and compassion, don't want to hog this to ourselves.

01:30:25

We want everyone that we come into contact with to know and receive this cure.

01:30:35

So, I think everything you both said was spot on. We have a question from David in Sumner, Washington.

01:30:44

How much respect to men should Christians give when it comes to evangelism at work, school, marketplace, or public settings?

01:30:51

If you are told that you cannot speak here because it is hate speech, should

01:30:58

Christians change their message, avoid speaking on certain topics, stop and go elsewhere, or continue doing so, assuming the risks of adverse consequences?

01:31:10

That's probably going to be something where it's different in different specific circumstances,

01:31:18

I guess. I'm assuming that you can't have a cookie cutter answer to that. But, if you could,

01:31:23

Ryan, start. Yeah, so if you're in school, at work, you know, let's say you're in a situation where they say you have to act in this way or you'll lose your job.

01:31:37

The reality is, like you're saying, it's case by case, I would say, but, here's the thing,

01:31:45

I don't know if we talked about this last time, but one thing about evangelism that is unique from, let's say, church, is that when, let's say the government comes and says, okay, it's illegal to meet in church.

01:32:00

And so, what do you have? You have underground churches that meet anyways. And, you know, the idea is to get away with it.

01:32:08

You know, the idea is that you want to meet secretly, and you don't want to be exposed.

01:32:13

So, that's a lot different, though, than evangelism, because evangelism is intentionally exposing what you believe, exposing your beliefs to people who are at odds with that belief.

01:32:29

And so, that's why evangelism is different. So, in other words, we can still meet together secretly without anyone knowing about it, but we also have the commandment from Christ to go and share what we believe with other people.

01:32:41

And in a climate like ours, you're, you know, not even ours,

01:32:46

I mean, if you, let's say China, you know, or somewhere like North Korea, you know, where it's just outright illegal to proselytize in any form.

01:32:54

The reality is, is as Christians, we're called to do it anyways. And that's where the rubber meets the road.

01:33:00

And I don't think any of us have really had much experience in this climate.

01:33:09

But it is to say that case by case, you know, I mean, I'm afraid that if we continue to say that if your workplace does not allow you to evangelize, then don't evangelize.

01:33:21

I'm afraid that if we go down that road, what happens when it's illegal anywhere to evangelize, and we've been trained to say, well, if you can't do it here, they tell you not to do it here, and we've always said, okay, if they say not to do it, you shouldn't do it.

01:33:35

And what happens if every place in America says you can't do it? Well, we have to do it anyways.

01:33:41

And so it is to say that you should use discernment. It's not like you have to have a, you know, like a bullhorn and go into your workplace and stand on a table and start preaching.

01:33:50

But it is to say that we are called to share the gospel, and you're going to have opportunities, one -on -one opportunities.

01:33:56

You know, if you pray for open doors to share the gospel, God's going to open doors, and you'll know it.

01:34:01

And that's what we have to look for. We have to look for God opening doors, whether you're at work, whether you're in school, et cetera.

01:34:08

You know, in other words, you don't have to intentionally be obnoxious about your beliefs. God will open doors for you.

01:34:15

And look for it and pray for it, and God will bring you through that.

01:34:21

And if it comes down to it, you know, some people have been killed throughout history for expressing their beliefs in Christ, and, you know, if it happens, it happens,

01:34:31

I guess. If it happens, you get thrown into jail, or you lose your job, or you get kicked out of school or reprimanded for that.

01:34:40

I mean, the reality is we're told, do not be surprised, marvel not if the world hates you.

01:34:49

And just use discernment, though, and be prayerful about it, and God will bring us through it.

01:34:57

Amen. And obviously, I know that you didn't want to give the idea that we should be glib about the cost of evangelism that may include the torture and death of people, especially in other parts of the world, and who knows what comes around the corner in this country eventually.

01:35:19

Those are things that are obviously horrific and tragic, but at the same time, as you said, we have to obey

01:35:26

God above all else and fear God infinitely more than fearing men. Hey, Chris?

01:35:33

Yes. Before you go to your break, do I have a few seconds to make a couple of quick announcements?

01:35:40

Yes. Well, I wanted to offer your listeners the book,

01:35:46

Even If None, First Love Publications. Our ministry has printed this book, and we're offering it today to all of the listeners of Iron Sharpens Iron, free of charge.

01:35:59

You do need to order it on our website. You will go to firstlovepublications .org.

01:36:05

That's firstlovepublications .org, and just follow the instructions. You want to click on the books and then go to the cart.

01:36:14

Click on the book that you want, then go to the cart. But in this case, you would just order one book, which is

01:36:20

Even If None by Ryan Denton, my brother and partner on this broadcast, and that's free of charge.

01:36:29

Plus, I wanted to announce a new program we've had for a couple of months called Purity for Life.

01:36:36

This is a pioneering project of First Love Radio. You can't hear this broadcast anywhere else in the world.

01:36:44

We've partnered with Pure Life Ministries. Steve Gallagher is the president of Pure Life.

01:36:52

He's an author. He's written a number of publications. I think you've interviewed him before. His ministry focuses on sexual addiction, and today

01:37:05

I think masses of people are drowning with sexual addiction, including in the church.

01:37:12

It's the best -kept secret that everybody knows about in the world, but especially in the church.

01:37:21

We don't talk about it. It's a taboo subject, but it's a huge area of ministry that has not been addressed, and First Love Radio, in cooperation with Pure Life Ministries, has put together this program called

01:37:36

Purity for Life. You can hear it tonight at 7 p .m. I believe that's

01:37:43

West Coast time. You can see it on the program schedule on First Love Radio's website.

01:37:50

If you go to firstloveradio .org, that's firstloveradio .org.

01:37:56

On the home page, click on the programs link at the top, and then click on the—go down to the program schedule, the first link in the drop -down box, and the program schedule will come up, and it's on 7 p .m.,

01:38:11

Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, and Saturday at 1 .30

01:38:17

p .m. It's a very, very good program. The counselors and the teachers offer very pragmatic, helpful advice to those struggling with sexual addiction.

01:38:30

I don't know about anyone else, but everywhere you turn, sexual temptation and images are in your face.

01:38:40

Saturating social media with them, everywhere you turn, television, cable

01:38:45

TV, everywhere are these images, and you can't get away from it.

01:38:51

Men especially, but everybody are tempted everywhere you turn to indulge their lusts and sin against God.

01:38:58

This program, I think, has been very helpful. Purity for Life, rather, has a tremendous ministry, not only with this radio program, this new radio program that you can only find on First Love Radio, but also their books, their courses, and their in -person counseling program they have at their headquarters in Kentucky.

01:39:25

Great. Well, all of that sounds excellent, and we're going to go to our final break right now. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks, and if you have a question,

01:39:35

I would strongly urge you to send it in quickly, because we're rapidly running out of time. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:39:43

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Ryan Denton and Joe Jackalitz after these messages.

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01:44:56

Chris Ornzen. This is our final segment of today's discussion with Ryan Denton on his book,

01:45:05

Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, and with Joe Jakowitz, who has joined us for this discussion today.

01:45:13

He is the publisher of this book, being founder of First Love Publications, in addition to First Love Radio, which live streams

01:45:22

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and many other fine Christian broadcasts, and also

01:45:27

First Love Missions. If you have a question, our email address is chrisornzen at gmail .com.

01:45:34

chrisornzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:45:41

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:45:48

I want to make sure, Ryan, that you have at least a few minutes to be uninterrupted and to summarize everything that you want our listeners to make sure they remember everything that you want etched in their hearts and minds before they leave this program, and we'll do that before we take any more listener questions.

01:46:16

Sure. You know, it's encouraging, I think, to know that evangelism is actually very simple.

01:46:22

It's going to people who don't know the gospel and sharing the gospel with them.

01:46:28

And that's it. That's what evangelism is. It includes calling them to believe in Christ, and it includes things especially like the resurrection of Christ and God and His character and man and, you know, especially creation.

01:46:47

I think that's a big topic to bring up today because of the fact that there is a real assumption in our culture that we get to define certain things, and we don't because God's creator and we're not.

01:47:00

So that's evangelism, though, and when you look at Matthew 28, what's encouraging is that, like we talked about earlier, it begins with worship.

01:47:10

They worship Christ. He tells them that He has all authority in heaven and on earth. And then

01:47:15

He says, Go therefore. And at the very end of that passage, He says, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

01:47:21

And so you recognize that there's a real tendency within us to either,

01:47:29

A, be fearful and not evangelize at all, or number B, or number two, we look to ourselves, and we trust in ourselves, and we trust in our education, and we trust in our knowledge, we trust in our experiences when we evangelize.

01:47:43

But Christ says, No, we have to look to Him. We have to trust in Him. And so, you know,

01:47:50

I just want to encourage people to look to Christ when it comes to evangelism, look into Scripture, and don't get caught up in the results.

01:48:01

And because, I mean, think about it, if somebody does get saved, we, you know, sometimes it's hard to, well, it's always hard to tell in a sense, because it takes time to actually, not to get saved, but it takes time to see that that conversion's genuine, you know, and sometimes it takes a while sometimes.

01:48:21

And Christ tells us about that in the parable of the soils and things like that, where He's saying it's easy to be deceived, and there's a lot of false conversions out there.

01:48:30

And so don't get caught up in the results necessarily, as far as was it successful or not, but rather look at whether or not you did it, and whether the motive was correct, and then trust in God to bring forth a harvest.

01:48:47

Praise God. And Joe, do you have anything to add before we go to any listening questions? I would say the need is very, very great.

01:48:55

The work to be done today with the Gospel, like never before, is huge. There's 7 billion people on the planet, 200 ,000 plus of them die every single day.

01:49:06

People need to hear the Gospel. Our job is not to save, our job is to plant water to see.

01:49:15

Some sow some water, but God gives the increase. And we need to share the Gospel as much as we possibly can.

01:49:22

We need to go into the harvest to do the work of sharing the Gospel. There are not enough

01:49:28

Christians sharing the Gospel. Many of us Christians have heard the equivalent of thousands, thousands of sermons.

01:49:38

We have the equivalent of a master's degree in theology from that. Are we going to keep that knowledge to ourselves, keep it a secret?

01:49:45

We need compassion for unsaved people in their need, in their blindness, in their slavery to sin.

01:49:52

We need to, as Ryan said, fulfill the Great Commission. Go into the world and preach the

01:49:58

Gospel to every creature. But we need to also do the second part of that Great Commission, is make disciples, teaching them all things whatever

01:50:07

Christ has commanded. And so we need to not only promiscuously broadside the

01:50:12

Gospel in the marketplace, but we need to form Bible studies. We need to have one -on -one, one -on -two, and small group

01:50:20

Bible studies where we share the Gospel with unsaved people. Make a list of every unsaved person you know on a piece of paper in your area and invite them to a

01:50:31

Bible study that would go through the Gospel of John and answer their questions.

01:50:37

Even if you did that with one or two people on an ongoing basis, discipleship, discipleship, discipleship, a greatly neglected aspect of evangelism.

01:50:49

And so I would encourage your listeners, Chris, to get busy because Christ is coming soon.

01:50:56

The signs of the times are in our face every single day. I don't know when the

01:51:01

Lord is coming, but the Lord told us that we would know the times and the seasons.

01:51:07

And so I believe that we're in the end times, and I think that with the remaining breath and days that God gives us, the remaining time we have, we need to devote ourselves to holy living and sharing the

01:51:21

Gospel with every unsaved person we know. Praise God.

01:51:27

Well, we have another anonymous listener. The anonymous listener says that,

01:51:33

I have been evangelizing and witnessing to my close family members and many within my close circle of friends for many years, and it seems to have been unfruitful.

01:51:46

I don't know how much impact the Word of God has had upon their hearts and minds, but it is not evident to me that it has any impact at all.

01:51:56

How do I take the verse in the Bible in Matthew chapter 10, verse 14, and whosoever shall not receive you nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

01:52:17

How long shall I continue to persevere in evangelizing these family members and friends who continually, week after week, month after month, year after year, reject the

01:52:31

Gospel message being presented to them? I know that the Bible doesn't give an exact number of weeks, months, or years, but do you have any counsel in this area for me?

01:52:45

I'd say don't stop. You know, there's a lot of times people say, well, how do you know if you're casting pearls before swine?

01:52:54

And I think you'll know. You know, when you know it, you know it. And, you know, there's a sense in which family is always difficult to evangelize in a sense, but, you know, you don't, again, want to be obnoxious about it, where you're just berating people and that's all the conversation is, and they've asked you, hey, man,

01:53:20

I don't want to hear about that. You know, I think to a certain extent we should grant that, but at the same time, like earlier we were talking, you know, be praying for open doors to come about and keep praying for them.

01:53:36

And in due time, I think when you have the open doors and the open windows and sprinkling it in here and there, you know,

01:53:46

I just don't think we should ever quit on anybody, and especially if they're close to us, whether it's just in prayer.

01:53:53

It doesn't mean, again, you're constantly talking about it necessarily, although we obviously would want to do that.

01:53:59

But, you know, I don't think we need to do that if we've shared it and, you know, they've rejected it.

01:54:06

But at the same time, keep looking for those opportunities. What exactly does Matthew 10, 14 mean then?

01:54:13

Well, lastly, Pastor Joe, you want to answer that one? Yeah, I think it means if a person deliberately, intentionally, outright rejects the gospel, whether it be the first time or after many times, and they send you a clear message,

01:54:27

I don't want to hear it anymore, please don't share with me, it indicates that that person has crossed over a line in hardening his or her heart against the gospel.

01:54:38

And God doesn't want us to strive with people and keep doing that. He doesn't want to have us take our pearls and have them cast dirt on it at that particular point in our relationship with them.

01:54:50

So as long as they're willing to hear, like Ryan said, as long as there's an open door, keep witnessing to them.

01:54:57

Even if they tell you, whether it be a relative or anybody, that I don't want to hear it anymore, you can continue to witness to them through lifestyle evangelism.

01:55:08

In other words, preaching the gospel through your godly life, showing the unconditional love of God to them, that will get their attention.

01:55:16

And God may use that to plant seeds he's never planted before in them, leading to their conversion where they would once again become open to hearing the cognitive word again.

01:55:28

I look at George Mueller's testimony, the great man of God from the UK in the 19th century, where during 73 years of ministry and praying for people, he prayed for 306 people for their salvation throughout his life.

01:55:49

When he died, 294 of them had gotten saved. Some of those people he had to pray for for 10, 20, 30, even 50 years.

01:55:58

And the remaining 14 of them got saved within 10 years after his death.

01:56:05

In other words, keep praying for people, like Ryan said, for that open door. God can change their heart to become receptive again to the gospel.

01:56:15

Don't get discouraged. Be not weary in well -doing, for in due season you shall reap if you faint not.

01:56:22

And so, that's what I would suggest. Do you think that in the context of this passage, that this is specifically addressing itinerant evangelism, if you will?

01:56:41

I mean, when you get to verse 11 in chapter 10, it says, Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy and stay there till you go out.

01:56:54

And when you go into a house, greet it. If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it.

01:57:01

But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.

01:57:16

Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

01:57:24

It seems to me that it is speaking of the disciples going to strangers' homes, and that this should not be blanketly applied to your own precious loved ones who are in your immediate family, your parents, your siblings, your children, your grandchildren, etc.

01:57:44

That might be right, Chris, if you think about when you go to, I know we do a lot of evangelism with people we don't know and will never see again, and if they reject the gospel, then you don't want to waste time with them.

01:58:00

With all the other people out there to get to, you want to go to one guy that I work with, he calls it people at peace, people that are not going to outrightly reject it.

01:58:14

And if they do, then move on and go to somebody else. So I think, yeah, that makes total sense.

01:58:20

Well, I can't believe we are actually out of time already. I want to once again give our listeners your websites,

01:58:30

Christ in the Wild Ministries, which is the ministry of Ryan Denton.

01:58:35

You can go to Christinthewild .com, Christinthewild .com.

01:58:42

And for First Love Radio, First Love Publishing, and First Love Missions, you can go to firstloveministries .org,

01:58:54

firstloveministries .org. That is a central website that will have all of the other varying ministries under that umbrella, headed by Joe Jackowitz, available to you at that one central website.

01:59:08

That's firstloveministries .org. I want to thank both of you for doing such an excellent job today.

01:59:13

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

01:59:20

And I want to remind you, I'm hoping that you all tune in again tomorrow for our interview with Jason Garwood.

01:59:30

He is the author that you've been hearing advertised every day, several times a day, regarding his book,

01:59:39

Health for All of Life. And that is a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.

01:59:46

That's tomorrow here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Please tune in. I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater