July 22, 2020 Show with Dick Guido on “Church vs. State: Not Intrinsically in Opposition” (Part 2)

The Christian Duty to Think Carefully About Church and State in a Pandemic

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 22nd day of July 2020.

And just a heads up folks if we happen to go off the air it might not necessarily be because some leftists in government power have kicked this off the air or some other entity unbeknownst to us but there is a thunderstorm thunder and lightning storm going on outside and you never know when that goes on if we are going to retain power.

I hope that we do because we have a very important program it's part two of a subject matter that we began in May of this year this is part two of church versus state question mark. Not intrinsically in opposition and to discuss this once again is Dick Guido elder of the Providence Presbyterian Church in Huntsville Alabama and member of both the New York and Alabama Bar Association and the Bar of the Supreme Court and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for the second time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dick Guido.

Well thank you so.

Much Chris. It's very good looking forward to it. And before we go into this very important subject.

At hand which seems to be growing in its relevance as we watch with horror things going on in the news across our nation. Tell us about the Providence Presbyterian Church in Huntsville Alabama.

Back there in Alabama or are you still in Pennsylvania? I'm in North Carolina. I see. Well it's great to.

Have you on the show and if anybody has any further questions about Providence Presbyterian Church in Huntsville Alabama you can find them on the internet at ProvidenceHuntsville .com. ProvidenceHuntsville .com.

And what's the website of your current church? S-H-I-L-O-H-O-P-C .org. I'm correct in the spelling of Shiloh right? S-H-I-L-O-H correct? Correct. All righty. Well let me also give our listeners our our email address if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own about church versus state.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-N at gmail .com. And as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Well much has been written and discussed in recent months concerning the interaction of the churches and the civil magistrate as they both encounter the coronavirus pandemic so I'd like to hear your responses to any updates that have that have occurred since our last discussion in May and as far as the the rise of the coronavirus both in its realities and also the hysteria that has been unfortunately.

Attached to it. Well one of the things that complicates matters though in regard to the way.

That the government has restricted the public gatherings of churches and those seem to have been loosened greatly if not completely depending upon where you live. But there are those that believe that the government the local governments the state governments depending upon where you live have wrongfully exercised authority that they don't have to interrupt the free exercise of our religion.

There are those that in fact I've had Christians on this show who seem to have disagreed over this and I speak regularly to Christians even those that seem to have a level of authority on this issue depending upon what they do in their career or what they have read and studied.

But there are those that I have interviewed even on the show and and they have said no the government was completely legitimate and it's insisting that congregations shut down at the at the time that they did for public gathered worship.

And there are those others that I've had on my show who said no. The government local governors of individual states have no such authority to do that. So where are.

You coming from on this? I think it's very important. Of course the last thing that you mentioned.

In regard to the the negative impact of the coronavirus pandemic the the financial devastation of this country that has been largely attributed to the very exercise of government restrictions on businesses and so forth so that that that has actually been used as a reason for claiming the government has overreached its constitutional authority and has been a very negative thing for this country.

And going back to the the numbers of people who have perished obviously anybody who perishes from this is reason for mourning and we are very sad about this occurring and we mourn with those who mourn.

But at the same time I have understood that comparatively to other illnesses like even the flu this has not been as serious as other illnesses.

That never required such harsh restrictions basically have set out some principles that.

We should go by when trying to understand this more clearly for reasons for instance our obligation as Christians to place ourselves in any particular situation and determine what our response should be.

It's not always easy to do in the context of something like a coronavirus pandemic and first of all we're faced with not good versus evil which would make matters easier when we make decisions but good versus good if you could explain that a little bit more.

Yeah in terms of good versus good that's always the more difficult gather. To john and banger main who asks I have heard that there have been churches in certain.

States that although they have been given back the freedom to reopen their buildings for public worship they have been restricted from singing because that is believed to be a further agent of spreading the coronavirus.

Is this kind of thing acceptable to you. Where actually the government is getting involved in the order of worship and actual elements within what we consider commands.

Of scripture to practice in our public gatherings. Excellent question. Yes it is and I don't know if.

It ever came down to this as far as a restriction imposed by a local government anywhere. But I had heard rumors about even the lord supper being banned because they thought that that aided in further spread or risk of spread of the virus and that would obviously be in along the same lines of.

What you just mentioned I want to ask a follow-up question when we return from the first break if.

Anybody would like to join us. Send us an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away we'll be right back. With dick guido and our discussion of church versus state question mark.

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Greater things in his design. Welcome back. This is chris arms and if you just tuned us in our guest.

Today for the entirety of the program is dick guido elder of the providence presbyterian church in huntsville alabama and member of both the new york and alabama bar association and the bar of supreme court.

We are discussing part two of a discussion that we began in may that is church versus state not intrinsically in opposition. Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

As always give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And dick uh you were just talking about an eastern orthodox church in thessalonica that refused to stop using one common cup and one common spoon in distributing the elements of the lord's supper as they see uh to be necessary where the the bread and the wine are mixed in a cup and spooned out and given in one with one common spoon to everybody in the congregation.

They refused to stop doing that even though the government attempted to restrict them from doing that and apparently the church won out in the long run. Now you and i from what i understand of the orthodox presbyterian church and i being a reformed baptist we would both reject not only that practice of the lord's supper uh we would especially reject it as being a requirement in faithfully observing the lord's supper we would see that the elements of the way that this is being practiced is very superstitious uh saying that the because of course they believe in the the real body and blood of christ physically being present and that would never be a conduit to spreading any kind of a virus.

Obviously that's that is a superstition. But at the same time how are we to view these things as protecting and preserving as american citizens the rights of our fellow citizens to freely exercise their religion even when we disagree with them.

We we believe that the free exercise of religion is not only something to be preserved for bible-believing evangelical christians and reformed christians. But obviously we believe that mormons and jehovah's witnesses and jews and muslims and roman catholics and others as long as they are not threatening the lives of others in a real way as long as they are freely exercising their their religion in such a manner where those who are their neighbors are not being opposed upon.

Also we would believe that they should have the right to exercise even what we would call heresy and blasphemy. But so how are we.

To respond to something like what you just said well why don't you discuss those very things that you mentioned. Well we have to go to our midway break right now and you can continue where you.

Left off uh when we come back this is the longer than normal break. Folks please be patient. Uh please uh. Remember that we have to use this middle break to allow grace life radio 90 .1 fm in lake city florida to obey fcc regulations in regard to localizing this show to lake city florida.

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And that should god willing result in our advertisers desiring to remain as our advertisers. And therefore god willing we should be able to remain on the air for a longer future because we absolutely rely upon our advertisers to exist.

So please do that. And please also send in questions to our guest our guest dick guido on church versus state question mark and our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always give us your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter we'll be right back with dick guido after these messages.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some Lord's day in worshiping our God and Savior.

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Matchless name of our lord jesus christ. My name is bhanu gadi. I'm a pharmacist in new york which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In psalm 139 verse 14 the psalmist offers praise to the lord like this.

I praise you because i'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well. He saw god's goodness and mercy kindness and the beauty in what god has designed and he has erupted into praise in any crisis or problem.

Brothers and sisters our only fallback position is to trust god's design. And once we do there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him when the whole world is searching for a solution. God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very such is the beauty of his design.

Knowing that design how can we not erupt in praise to our great god like the psalmist did. May god bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things.

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