July 17, 2020 Show with Matt Tarr on “The Challenges of the Northeast United States as a Mission Field for a Flourishing Church” (Part 2)

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July 20, 2020

July 17, 2020 MATT TARR, Pastor @ High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, PA (a church revitalization effort in Northeastern PA through the Grace Advance Ministry of John MacArthur), who will address: PART *2* of “The CHALLENGES of the NORTHEAST UNITED STATES as a MISSION FIELD & for a FLOURISHING CHURCH” & announcing the “BASICS of Biblical Counseling: A Weekend Conference for the Church”, next month in PA!!

September 24, 2020 Show with Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington on “A New Series on the Book of Romans” (Part 3)

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,
01:00: Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:09: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.
01:15: We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on the 17th day of July, 2020, and we have a returning guest today who began a subject just two days ago, and there was so much that was left unsaid about a very important topic that we wanted him to return right away to continue the discussion on the challenges of the
01:47: Northeast United States as a mission field and for a flourishing church. I'm speaking of Pastor Matt Tarr of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, which is a church revitalization effort in northeastern
02:00: Pennsylvania through the Grace Advanced Ministry of John MacArthur. We're also going to be announcing the
02:06: Basics of Biblical Counseling Conference, which is coming up at the end of August, a weekend conference for the church, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for part two of our discussion on the
02:18: Northeast United States as a mission field and a flourishing church, Matt Tarr. Thanks, Chris.
02:24: It's good to be back with you. And for those of our listeners who missed our last interview, why don't you tell them about High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, Pennsylvania.
02:34: Sure. Well, our church is, as you mentioned, it's a small revitalization effort.
02:40: Our congregation is maybe 120 to 130, upwards towards 150 now, but it was a number of years ago when our congregation moved up to the top of a mountain on a new location and really began amending its philosophy of ministry at that point.
03:06: It had, for a long time, held a steadfast to the scriptures, but there was a lot of pressure in building this new building,
03:16: I believe, that led to subtle compromises in the authority of God's Word, and ultimately that led the church to become extremely seeker -sensitive in sort of the
03:27: Rick Warren heyday, and the pastors here were going out to his conference, his pastor's conference, every year in Orange County, California, I think it is, and they became sort of quasi -Pentecostal with that as well, because there was so much debt and so much pressure to pay for this massive new
03:56: Field of Dreams facility where, you know, they were a congregation of 250, and they built this worship center anticipating 1 ,500 people over three services, so they built this facility with the idea that if you will build it, they will come.
04:13: Well, the evangelical landscape in northeastern Pennsylvania is on par with the rest of New England, and I think southeastern
04:21: Pennsylvania is very comparable as well, but southeastern Pennsylvania is a little bit, I think,
04:27: I could be mistaken on this, but it seems like my initial analysis, if you will, of southeastern
04:34: Pennsylvania might be a little bit of a hybrid between the antitheistic intellectual scholasticism that defines
04:44: New England and what more defines our area, northeastern Pennsylvania. Both regions of eastern
04:52: Pennsylvania and New England are, you know, between 2 and 4 percent evangelical
04:58: Christians, so there's not many around. What's different about northeastern Pennsylvania is that where the rest of New England is predominantly atheistic or antitheistic, we're primarily
05:14: Roman Catholic, but nevertheless, there's not a strong population,
05:24: I suppose would be a good way to put it, of Christians in the northeast in general.
05:31: So being a congregation of 250 is a very large established church for our area, and to assume that by building the right facility, you'll grow to 1 ,500, well that was assuming quite a lot, and so they begin adopting a very strict entertainment -driven ministry at that point.
05:59: Sermons were significantly minimized to 15 -20 minute kind of sermonettes, and ultimately, and predictably, that led to a number of factions within the church that ultimately led to a split in 2012.
06:17: That was about the time, shortly after that, that they became a grace -advanced church, and then
06:23: Lord's Providence, my family and I would move here from southern
06:29: California, where I was in seminary, so that I could assume the role as pastor -teacher in December of 2014.
06:38: So we're coming up on our sixth year here at High Point. Great.
06:44: And if anybody would like more information about High Point Baptist Church, their website is highpointbaptist .church,
06:57: and that is located in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and I hope that you all, or as many of you as possible, come to the upcoming conference that they are holding at High Point Baptist Church.
07:15: It is a biblical counseling conference, August 28th and 29th, which is a Friday and Saturday.
07:21: I am scheduled to be there, manning an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitors booth, but if you could,
07:27: Pastor Matt, tell us more about this conference. Yeah, so, one of the things that is so necessary for the
07:36: Northeast is to, you know, I've already said it, but it's to go back to the authority of the
07:43: Bible. And the church in general needs to do that, and I think our church is a good test case.
07:53: I'm not one who is extremely clever or quick -witted or, you know, culturally savvy,
08:02: I guess, but the Word, as Martin Luther said, the
08:08: Word does it all, or the Word did it all. The Word is what establishes maturity, maturity in thinking, and in terms of biblical counseling, that's the real, you know, rifled approach to applying the authoritative
08:27: Word of God to the life of the individual, as we allow the
08:32: Scriptures to interpret life's problems. And so, this conference is going to introduce what true biblical counseling is.
08:43: I remember listening to Paul Washer one time, who had commented that biblical counseling is a word that really needs to be recovered, because it's essentially been so misused that it doesn't mean anything at all.
08:57: And that's because a lot of what passes as biblical counseling is truly integrationism, and what that means is you actually have a godless or even anti -God system, a philosophy of reasoning, a presupposition in psychology that is used as the authority to interpret our problems and life's circumstances, but will use proof texts, so a sampling of Scripture here and there, sort of like sprinkles on an ice cream cone, to adorn that worldly psychology so that it looks like it's biblical.
09:49: And most Christians aren't discerning enough to know the difference. There's a very great difference between understanding, interpreting life and life's problems through the
10:01: Scriptures and the biblical solutions versus looking to worldly counsel as the authority, and then finding verses that seem to support that worldly counsel.
10:18: So this biblical counseling conference through the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, Dale Johnson is the keynote speaker, he's the
10:26: Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, is going to be speaking, he's going to be addressing that specific issue, he's going to give us a framework of how we should be counseling one another through the
10:40: Scriptures, how we can competently do that, and of course ACBC was formally named, and some folks might still know it by that name.
10:52: I had somebody recently ask me, whatever happened to NAINC, that is the National Association of New Theta Counselors, that was begun by J.
11:01: Adams out of Westminster, and I think it was in, it might have been in 2011, 2012, you might know this
11:10: Chris, that they changed their name to the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors.
11:16: Yeah, I'm not up to speed on the name change, but I am very familiar with Dr. J.
11:22: Adams and New Theta Counseling, and have had New Theta Counselors on this program, and it is certainly a healthy and biblically sound movement within the
11:36: Church, predominantly Reformed, but I understand that there are those outside of our fellowship of Reformed Churches that have also adopted a
11:47: New Thetic approach to counseling, and by the way folks, if you want to attend this conference with me, on Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th, at the
11:58: High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, Pennsylvania, go to biblicalcounseling .com,
12:05: that's biblicalcounseling .com forward slash Scranton, S -C -R -A -N -T -O -N dash
12:13: P -A dash training, that's biblicalcounseling .com
12:20: forward slash Scranton dash P -A dash training. If you didn't have the time to write that down, you want to email me at ChrisArnson at gmail .com,
12:33: I will provide you with the information and a link where you can register, and as I said, I will be manning an
12:38: Iron Trip and Zion Radio exhibitors booth there, so I hope that you join me there, I hope as many of you as possible join me there, and I look forward to seeing you.
12:47: This topic really went by like a bullet the day before yesterday for part one, and we did cover a lot of how the
13:01: Northeast wound up in the theologically and spiritually barren state that it is today, and has been for quite a long time, even though at one time it was considered a bastion of biblical soundness, a bastion of Puritanism, a bastion of the
13:20: Reformed faith, and sadly today one could hardly ever make a claim like that with a straight face, although we never want to act as if we are overlooking or dismissing or diminishing the importance of the very fine churches that exist in the
13:38: Northeast today, including High Point Baptist Church in Clarksville, Pennsylvania, but it is not what it once was, and if you want to hear part one of this interview after this show is over, you can go to the
13:52: Iron Trip and Zion Radio website and go to the past shows section, the podcast section, and if you click on that today, part one of this discussion will be very near the top of the list, and of course you could always type in Matt Tarr into the search engine,
14:15: M -A -T -T -T -A -R -R, and you will have eventually both of the interviews come up.
14:23: Now I do want to give you an opportunity to give an overview of what we already discussed, a summary, and then
14:32: I think we should eventually, as soon as possible, move on to how we as Bible -believing
14:37: Christians, we who believe in evangelism, the need for evangelism, unlike what many of our theological opponents think about Calvinism or the
14:50: Reformed faith, we have a passion, if you are being historically accurate in your description of yourself as a
14:59: Calvinist or a Reformed Christian, we have a passion to preach the gospel, and we know that God's elect will eventually be quickened by it, and they will come forth from out of the masses of the lost, and that his word will never return void and so on, so we perhaps, at least if we are logically consistent, should be more persistent and more patient and more aggressive and zealous about evangelism because we know that God will bear fruit from this.
15:44: Even, I mean there have been accounts in history where missionaries have died with very little fruit from their own work, but after they've gone to eternity, sometimes nearly immediately after or a handful of years later, the work that was done, the seeds that were planted and the soil that was watered eventually does bear fruit in mighty ways, but we want to know how we should approach this northeast
16:17: United States as a very unique and problematic mission field. But if you could, summarize what we've already discussed.
16:25: Yeah, sure, and I'm right there with you. I think history does demonstrate that Calvinists have historically been,
16:34: I think the Wesley Brothers are the exceptions that prove the rule, that Calvinists have been the most aggressive, most prolific evangelists, ultimately because of their love for man, but where did that love come from?
16:52: Well, it comes from a love for God, and so that's why the
16:58: Apostle Paul was a, well you would say that he was the Apostle Paul, probably the greatest evangelist to the
17:07: Gentile world, to the nations, and he is a dedicated
17:12: Calvinist, there's no question, Ephesians 1, Romans 9, and even actually as you see the entire argumentation, the doctrines of grace laid out throughout the
17:21: Book of Romans as a whole, and John Calvin himself would lament,
17:27: I think, the fact that what we now call the doctrines of grace, we call
17:34: Calvinism, and that's really because of the remonstrance.
17:40: We're a little bit off topic here, I know, but I feel like it's appropriate to say, you know, it was not,
17:46: John Calvin did not invent anything new, and I know your listeners already know this as well, but he didn't invent anything new in that little acronym,
17:56: TULIP, that we like to use to describe these five points of Calvinism, but the remonstrance, who were students of Jacob Arminius, outlined these five articles, really, of remonstrance, or disagreements, objections, to these core fundamental doctrines of grace, and they were, was it at the
18:19: Synod of Dort that those were condemned, resoundedly? Yes.
18:25: That's where we get the five points of Calvinism from, although not in the specific acronym
18:30: TULIP, that's where we'd have our
18:36: TULIP derived from the Canons of Dort. Right.
18:42: So, yeah, so where we were, where we left off on, was that Wednesday?
18:49: That must have been Wednesday. The week has kind of just slipped by here, but to give a little bit of a brief overview, you mentioned that there are some, you know, there are certainly, there are some good churches, but they are few and far between, unfortunately, and it's, that can be very quickly discouraging, and one of the things that Pastor John MacArthur has done recently to help with this is launch a new initiative called the
19:21: Master's Fellowship of Churches, and we've started a branch of the Master's Fellowship of Churches of Pennsylvania, and I was speaking with one of the pastors expressing interest in this group, and he said, you know, just so you know,
19:39: I've been here 15 years, and there's not many of us. By us, he means those who not only adhere to the authority of God's Word in creed, but who adhere to the authority of God's Word in practice.
19:54: So, that's kind of where the spiritual climate of the Northeast is at the moment, even where, of the few, of the few faithful in creed churches that there are in the
20:09: Northeast, there are even fewer than that are faithful in practice, or in reference to what we call a philosophy of ministry.
20:20: So, we talked about how mind -boggling this would have been to see in the early colonies and in the
20:30: Northeast in particular, men like Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield preaching the
20:37: Gospel, along with many other Puritans and so forth, in the
20:43: Great Awakening and many souls coming to Christ, and very shortly after that, you begin to see a defection because of cultural pressure that even existed in the
21:01: Americas preceding Jonathan Edwards, for instance, his grandfather,
21:09: Jonathan Edwards succeeded his grandfather as the pastor of his church, and Solomon Stollard sort of led the way to this kind of halfway house compromise to allow known sinners, and by known sinners, what you're really talking about are the unregenerate to partake in the
21:31: Lord's table, and that would eventually be Jonathan Edwards' own undoing, it would be because of his own church's dissatisfaction with Edwards, one is hard preaching but also his refusal to allow individuals like the known drunkards of the town to participate in communion, lest they eat and drink judgment on themselves, they were very angered by that, by that high view of the
22:03: Lord's table, which was John Calvin's testimony as well in Geneva, it always seems like it goes back to that issue, but anyway, so Jonathan Edwards of course from there goes to become a missionary to the
22:21: Native Americans and from there is called as president for a very short time before he passes away at Princeton, which was just recently started in response to the liberalization of Yale, which was started in response to the liberalization of Harvard, which was started in response to the liberalization of the seminaries in Europe, so you had men being trained for ministry who were not being taught the infallibility in the inerrant word, and at the same time after the awakening, something of a longing within churches to see the tangible effects, because it's always a lot more encouraging and it's a lot easier for the church to measure its success by tangible tangibly measurable results, and Charles Finney then breaks into the scene and begins to introduce a lot of these new methods, a lot of which he actually borrowed from the
23:45: Wesley's, he borrowed from the Methodist church, but he formalized them, he popularized them, he refined them, and they were manipulative methods that garnered a lot of results, even though a lot of results, that is to say in his tent revival meetings, his altar calls, they weren't called altar calls, it was a, oh what was the bench, it was the anxious, yes that's right, so the
24:18: Baptist version would become the altar call. Which is ironic because Baptist churches don't have altars.
24:26: That's right, you know it is, it is, and there's a reason for that, but and ironically the altar is, yeah it's at the foot of the pulpit, whatever that means, so Charles Finney though, a man who denies justification by faith and who preaches the false gospel is generating the kind of response among people that they were,
24:53: I mean it was exactly what they were looking for. They were looking for these massive results that they had seen in the first great awakening, and so you now have the so -called second great awakening, and Finney traveled especially, he was centrally located in New York, but he traveled all throughout
25:15: New England, all throughout Pennsylvania, and he even traveled throughout the South, but many people came to false conversions, and Charles Finney even lamented the fact that it seemed as though very few people actually had a changed life from these tent revival meetings that he was having.
25:39: And so within there, you had then a generation that is brought up by the very ones who were allegedly converted under the preaching of Charles Finney, and their conclusion would only be natural.
25:52: Well, there must not be any power in the gospel, because the gospel that my parents claimed to hold to, the
25:59: God that is powerful and sovereign that they claimed to be worshipers of, has had no effect on mom and dad's life.
26:07: They're hypocrites. So there must therefore be no power in the gospel at all. Obviously that's an erroneous conclusion, but Jesus warned his church in a sense.
26:22: He both warned, admonished, and encouraged us all at the same time when he said that the world would know you, that is his disciples, by their love for one another.
26:35: So if they didn't have love for one another because they're living hypocritical lives, it certainly does no help to the true message of the gospel.
26:48: Now, that's kind of the 30 ,000 foot view, I suppose. I don't recall exactly everything that I shared last time, so I might repeat myself, but from here, this story, it doesn't end, because the church is now dying in the
27:05: Northeast. But when you look at the chronology, there's something else that's happening at the same time.
27:12: The church is beginning to move west with the development of the
27:17: American frontier. It's moving south and it's moving west. And as it does, it was primarily non -denominational churches and Baptist churches that began moving west.
27:36: Interestingly, the Presbyterian church, as I recall, Ian Murray does a very good job of tracing this in,
27:45: I think it was Revival and Revivalism? Yes. Okay. Yes, and he compares the ministries of Finney and Asahel Nettleton, the latter being a biblically faithful evangelist.
28:04: Yes, so the Presbyterian church, which was what really identified
28:12: American evangelicalism at that time, made the decision that it would not really pursue moving west.
28:24: The non -denominational churches, Baptist churches, did. And the non -denominational churches, they did. But there was a problem that they quickly realized was a problem.
28:33: And that was, as they're establishing new churches, you couldn't have a plurality of elders leading those churches.
28:43: And so what were you going to do? They would send a pastor out to start a church in the west, but they saw that a singular elder leading the church than men leading the church who weren't necessarily qualified or called to lead the church.
29:05: And so you had this new polity structure that was established. And deacons began assuming the role of elder without being called an elder.
29:19: So they were governing the church, but they weren't teaching. And nor were they called to lead the church.
29:28: So you're going to have problems as a consequence of that.
29:35: And that would contribute to the, I suppose, the lack of foresight in the new purpose of the church.
29:51: And that would contribute to the church that was adopted largely because of the pressure of congregants after Phinney's preaching.
30:02: So, you know, Phinney is preaching about the mid -19th century.
30:08: The church is moving west. The church has adopted an unbiblical kind of church government, predominantly in the new church.
30:17: The churches in the northeast that were established, they're dying. They're shriveling up.
30:24: Liberalism has kind of taken over the area. Well, where is the hope?
30:30: It's going to largely be in these churches that have moved west. And there seems to be great effect because of the methods that they borrowed from Charles Phinney.
30:44: These are the methods that would define the ministries of men like D .L.
30:50: Moody and Billy Sunday and even Billy Graham. And we kind of introduced them last week.
30:59: Now, they would carry the kind of oratorical style of Charles Phinney into the 20th century.
31:11: But D .L. Moody particularly, he adhered to the theological positions of conservative evangelicals.
31:24: But his sermons sought to appeal to the emotion.
31:31: He used narrative to elicit response from affections, from the affections, not so much the intellect.
31:40: If you read his sermon manuscripts, you kind of get that sense of what
31:45: I'm talking about. And Billy Sunday adopted many of the same techniques. And that contributed to this kind of sentimental approach to Christianity.
31:55: But their target, they weren't so much focused on equipping the saints for the work of service as they were evangelists.
32:07: And so they passed this method on to another generation.
32:15: This method that emphasized repetition and excitement while at the same time downplaying substance.
32:27: In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our first break. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
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32:50: We'll be right back with Matt. I'm Dr.
32:58: Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
33:09: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
33:16: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
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33:40: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
33:49: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
33:56: That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
34:05: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
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41:35: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?
41:42: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
41:50: Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.
42:05: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know
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43:25: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Welcome back to the program.
43:37: This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio. And our guest today for the full two hours is
43:46: Matt Tarr. He is the pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania.
43:55: We are discussing part two of a discussion that we began just two days ago,
44:01: The Challenges of the Northeast United States as a Mission Field and for a Flourishing Church.
44:07: And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our e -mail address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
44:15: chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.
44:23: If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
44:32: And if you could, Pastor Matt, pick up right where you left off, where you were talking about men like, as great as he was, and as fond as Charles Spurgeon was of him, men like D .L.
44:48: Moody and how they may have veered from the proper course in their emphasis on evangelism and preaching.
44:56: Right, yeah. So there are always unintended consequences for certain methods that we adopt.
45:05: And certainly this would be one of them. There was a new kind of revivalism that began to define the
45:14: American church as the church moved west. And in fact, revivalism became synonymous with church life in the 19th and 20th century
45:24: American church. And that was ultimately where maturity was identified.
45:34: That was where a healthy church was identified. It was all wrapped up.
45:39: And what was the church doing that was nurturing church growth? And so there was tremendous pressure.
45:47: Now at this time, it was still difficult to travel.
45:53: So many individuals didn't have the privilege of church shopping like we lamentably experience today.
46:03: But churches would instead tell their pastors to get out of town. People would write their pastors anonymous letters telling them that if they cannot produce the revivals that they had once known, or the revivals that other churches were experiencing, they had no business being in the gospel ministry and they needed to leave.
46:30: Today people are more cordial than that. They just leave the church quietly and find another church where life, quote unquote, seems to be happening.
46:43: So there was a strong emphasis on the revivalism and the methods that seemed to suit that kind of revivalism.
46:51: Substances being downplayed. The church in the Northeast is already devastated, but now it's trying to look to what the churches of the
46:59: West are doing. I think what is defining the American church as a whole to cover the gospel ministry in the
47:05: Northeast. And it's looking in the wrong places. It's looking in the wrong methods. And as you move into the 20th century, this kind of methodology, it defines the church.
47:19: But something especially new, a cultural phenomenon, begins to take hold of the
47:26: American environment at large. And that is mid -20th century, the psychology of self -esteem.
47:37: And so in the psychology of self -esteem, self -esteem and self -understanding are the keys to understanding life and to being successful in life.
47:50: And it was especially popular in California. In fact, the
47:55: California legislature even appointed a self -esteem task force for its schools.
48:03: And that began to influence evangelicalism even more.
48:09: Because now you had the integration of the psychological concepts of self -worth into evangelicalism.
48:17: So the message of the church became, Jesus, the friend who helps us find happiness and self -fulfillment.
48:27: And with that, many congregations began to expect that preaching should now be anthropocentric.
48:40: And worship should be anthropocentric. What I mean by that is, it's simply man -centered. So preaching has to be life on life.
48:48: It has to be, quote -unquote, relevant to the congregation. And now there's even more reason for the church to move itself away from expository preaching.
49:04: And church worship as a whole is going to be largely redefined. And that's interesting because that hasn't happened quite as much yet.
49:12: You definitely did have amended church worship, especially in response to the
49:18: Billy Graham Crusades and so forth, as church worship was simplified in the attempt to be able to have music that was easily recognizable, easily remembered, and so forth.
49:30: But it was in, I think, the mid -20th century that you really began to see the shift in the church as a whole.
49:39: Not just the preaching. It'll always be the preaching first. But the church as a whole, in corporate body life, is now becoming man -centered.
49:49: And truth is, well, truth is ravaged as a consequence.
49:58: Man ultimately becomes the object of worship, even though evangelicalism will still say that God must be the object of our worship.
50:12: But I think Hosea 4 -6 really wraps up very well what is happening now in the
50:21: American church. Where God says, my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, because you have rejected knowledge.
50:30: I will also reject you from my priests, since you have forgotten the law of your God. I will also forget your children.
50:38: And David Wells says this about the seeker -sensitive church.
50:43: He said that the result is a set of damaging triumphs. The triumph of appeal over depth, of technique over truth, and of consumption over cost.
50:55: At the bottom of it all is the triumph of the seller over the product. The remnants of the gospel that can still be found in the mercy of God do bring people to Christ.
51:04: But the churches that sprung from these deluded and trivialized gospel messages tend to carry into their life the very same qualities with which they began.
51:14: They seem to rise no higher than the emptied out, shallow gospel messages they started with, and this massive outreach of being sensitive to supposed seekers.
51:24: Well, you know, of course the term itself is problematic, biblically. Because Romans 3 .11,
51:31: which reiterates God's conclusion from Psalm 14, says that there is none who seeks for God.
51:41: But the church had to assume the legitimacy that whatever was felt was a need, and you had to have this need -based preaching.
51:52: And that eventually cultivated a kind of congregation that prioritized feeling over obedience.
51:59: And now that's why we're even in a post -seeker -sensitive church culture. In fact, you may have heard my dear friend
52:08: Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries say on occasion that the seeker -sensitive movement was a movement of methodology based upon people who do not exist.
52:24: Yes, that's exactly right. You know, I would say the same thing. I love James White.
52:30: I would say the exact same thing. I mean, it's a non -church. If there is none who seeks God, then apparently you're going to be a seeker -sensitive church.
52:40: You're just a church that doesn't exist. In fact, we have to go to our midway break right now.
52:45: It came up very fast. But this is our longer -than -normal break, folks. Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
52:51: FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us they air this program twice daily, in a pre -recorded format, in morning drive and then again in the evening.
52:59: And they, by FCC regulations, have to air public service announcements and other things that localize
53:07: Iron Sharpens Iron to the Lake City, Florida area. So please be patient with us as we take this longer break.
53:15: And use this time wisely. Write down the information provided by our advertisers, as many of them as possible, so that you can more frequently patronize our advertisers successfully.
53:27: And therefore, hopefully, they will, seeing fruit being born from their advertising dollars, they will remain our sponsors, which means that we will more than likely remain on the air for a longer future, because we rely upon our advertisers' financial support to exist.
53:43: So write down that information and also send in questions to Matt Tarr on the challenges of the Northeast United States as a mission field for a flourishing church.
53:53: And again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
54:00: And don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Matt Tarr.
54:12: Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.
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54:32: Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.
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54:52: He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. And currently, his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more.
55:03: And in approximately 10 different states. In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.
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55:37: Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
55:43: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
56:08: A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey.
56:15: Pastored by Alan Dunn. Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
56:26: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
56:32: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
56:37: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship.
56:49: Performed with faith, joy, and sobriety. Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
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59:57: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
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01:01:44: This is Pastor Bill Souser, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:01:51: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
01:01:59: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:02:12: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:02:19: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:02:32: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:02:42: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:02:50: This is Pastor Bill Souser wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:02:55: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
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01:07:47: but also for your lost loved ones. In fact, it's probably even more important that you purchase things for those that you know and love who are lost because perhaps this gift that you give them will be used of God to draw them to eternal life through the gospel that they read in the pages of these books.
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01:08:15: Before we return to our discussion with Matt Tarr on Part 2 of the challenges of the
01:08:22: Northeast United States as a mission field and for a flourishing church, a subject we began the day before yesterday,
01:08:29: I just want to remind you of a couple of important things. First of all, coming up on August 28th and 29th, which is a
01:08:37: Friday and Saturday, I will be manning an exhibitor's booth, God willing, at a conference being hosted by the
01:08:45: Association of Certified Biblical Counselors and High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, the church pastored by my guest today,
01:08:54: Matt Tarr. The Basics of Biblical Counseling Conference is something that everyone who cares about biblical counseling should attend, especially those in church leadership.
01:09:07: I think that they particularly want to see as many pastors with their wives as possible, but this is no doubt going to be an important conference, which will be led by their speaker,
01:09:21: Dale Johnson, the Executive Director of ACBC, and as I said before, that stands for the
01:09:28: Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. The lectures include the need for biblical counseling, the definition and goal of biblical counseling, progressive sanctification, qualifications of the biblical counselor, secular and integration theories, what makes biblical counseling biblical, and also a
01:09:48: Q &A session by Dale Johnson and the audience. This is going to be starting on Friday night, the 28th of August, and will continue all day long until 5 p .m.
01:10:03: on Saturday, the 29th of August. I hope to see you there, and I hope you come and greet me at the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Exhibitors booth.
01:10:10: For more details on this very important conference, go to biblicalcounseling .com
01:10:16: forward slash Scranton dash PA dash training. That's biblicalcounseling .com
01:10:25: forward slash Scranton, S -C -R -A -N -T -O -N dash
01:10:30: PA dash training. And of course, you can also find out more about the venue where this is being held,
01:10:40: High Point Baptist Church, at highpointbaptist .church, highpointbaptist .church.
01:10:48: Hope to see you there, Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th. Also, folks, please remember,
01:10:55: Iron Trip and Zion Radio has experienced a huge financial blow not long ago because two of our strongest financial supporters, most generous financial supporters, had to, at least temporarily, we hope, put their giving on hiatus because the hysteria surrounded by the coronavirus epidemic, or pandemic,
01:11:21: I should say, has really hit them hard financially, their businesses.
01:11:28: So please help us make up for that financial income that was lost and help us as much as you can, be as frequent with your donations and as generous as you can by going to irontripandzionradio .com,
01:11:42: click support, then click, click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.
01:11:48: And if you prefer snail mail, you can send in a check made out to Iron Trip and Zion Radio to the address that appears on your screen when you click support.
01:11:56: at irontripandzionradio .com Also, if you prefer advertising, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe.
01:12:08: You don't have to believe lockstep identically with what I believe, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what
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01:12:25: Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're having a hard time finding one in your area, you don't know of one in your area, no matter where in the world you live,
01:12:38: I may be able to help because I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet Earth and I've helped quite a number of people in our audience find churches that they have joined and where they have become members from all parts of the planet.
01:12:52: And some of these folks have visited these churches while on vacation and some of them have referred these churches to loved ones who they know do not have a biblical church that they're aware of in their area.
01:13:03: So please send me an email to chrisarnsonatgmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line chrisarnsonatgmail .com
01:13:10: That's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, Pennsylvania.
01:13:21: That's chrisarnsonatgmail .com chrisarnsonatgmail .com As always give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
01:13:31: USA. And it seems like a primary word or concept that we should be thinking of when it comes to how we as Christians that seek to be faithful to the inerrant word of God, when it comes to the scriptures being our blueprint for all we do, whether it be our order of worship, all that we do in worship, otherwise known as the regulative principle of worship, but also in our evangelistic efforts, our missionary efforts.
01:14:04: Everything that we do should be based on the scripture and we should be avoiding, as tempting as it often is, pragmatism.
01:14:13: It seems that the church failed miserably, perhaps greatly in this area of the country, if not the world, the
01:14:24: Northeast United States, when it began becoming pragmatic, when the popularity of the faith began to become diminished greatly, gimmickry and things that appealed to the appetites of goats and wolves began to be highlighted in the evangelism and the worship services, so -called, to draw those that are not even regenerate into the fold, thinking that they will eventually get saved by hearing and responding to the gospel.
01:14:58: It is somehow found amongst the mess of all kinds of unbiblical things in the so -called sermons or in the activities of so -called worship.
01:15:11: Am I right on that? Yeah, that's right. You know, it's really interesting.
01:15:18: So where we left off, we were talking about how the seeker -sensitive church was really a play off of the psychological self -esteem movement that began especially in the 1960s.
01:15:40: And as that, decades later, as late as 2009 in fact, a number of studies were done.
01:15:51: Some 15 ,000 studies concluded that the self -esteem culture, the self -esteem dogma of psychology, that has even defined
01:16:08: American evangelicalism now for quite a number of years through even focus on the family ministries and so forth.
01:16:19: Dr. James Dobson was a strong advocate of the self -esteem culture. In fact, he said that he believes the number one issue of women in particular,
01:16:31: Christian women, is that, I'm sorry, not Christian women, just women in general, women in the world, their number one need is a healthy dose of self -esteem.
01:16:42: And so now we have in 2009 all of these psychologists redacting that position and saying that it was actually counterproductive.
01:16:51: And now it has resulted in antisocial behavior.
01:16:58: It hasn't accomplished anything good. And in fact, now the emphasis has to be on self -control.
01:17:09: Because for so many years, psychologists have been pushing this dogma of self -esteem. And it's really interesting to think about then that we now have to push for self -control.
01:17:23: The consequence of this self -esteem culture has resulted in the need for people to have self -control. Wow, what are we looking at in the world?
01:17:30: We're looking at a whole bunch of people that have no self -control. So they're burning buildings, they're shooting fireworks, they're rebelling against law enforcement, and we somehow don't think that's going to have the same consequence in the church when we've adopted the same methods.
01:17:45: And we're only now beginning to see and experience in the church those very same consequences.
01:17:53: So what's going to happen? You're talking about the need for the regulative principle.
01:17:59: That is a critical need for the church to recover, really investigating what the scriptures teach us about Christian conduct, and is there an actually biblically defined method for church life?
01:18:14: I think it is a horrible misunderstanding of scripture to assume that the scriptures will advocate this rhetoric that we consistently keep hearing that says, you know, we're not going to change the message, but we have to keep changing the method in order to accommodate the culture.
01:18:38: And so we're always pursuing the latest fad, the latest method. And ultimately we're only continuing this culture of self -esteem in the church that's going to result in this isolationism, this autonomous kind of attitude in the church.
01:19:01: And I think that attitude of autonomy has been really exposed, or maybe even proven in recent days with the
01:19:12: COVID -19 pandemic, with everybody sheltering in place and having a very low view, quite frankly, of the importance of the church.
01:19:23: They're more than comfortable being in isolation.
01:19:29: They could worship independently. Well, when we talk about, you know, as we begin to move away in the last little segment of our time here, from what has happened to the church in the
01:19:43: Northeast, and then what has happened to the church in North America, and now what is the church trying to do to recover, versus, you know, to now, what do we need to do?
01:19:54: What do we need to change? And especially if we truly want to reach the loss of the gospel, it's really coming back to the authority of the scriptures.
01:20:02: I know it's not novel, but that's really the point. It's coming back to the authority of the scriptures.
01:20:10: Paul said that the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.
01:20:20: So it's not, like I said, it's not a novel concept. He says in his, you know, his model of Christian ministry in 1
01:20:27: Corinthians chapter 2, when I came to you, when did he come to them? He came to them as an evangelist, and he reminds the
01:20:34: Corinthians themselves how they came to salvation. He said,
01:20:39: I didn't come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming you the testimony of God, for I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
01:20:51: I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the
01:21:02: Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
01:21:15: History, church history, I'm, you know, I'm not much of a historian myself, but I love to study church history from, you know, a number of different men, but who both comment, both those who lived in the history and also those who comment on the history of Godfrey, Dr.
01:21:42: Busenitz at the Master's Seminary, Chris Arnzen, those are all people
01:21:48: I would recommend to study church history. But church history demonstrates that when the church's greatest movements, the church's greatest effect to bring glory to God through the salvation of the lost was when it simply rededicated its position to exalt the
01:22:09: Word of God. It didn't get tangled up in all of these faddish, trivialized, man -centered methods.
01:22:19: And, you know, last time we kind of talked a little bit, just by way of illustration, that those interesting words that are above the
01:22:32: School of Philosophy at Harvard, above Emerson Hall, that said,
01:22:41: Who is man that thou art mindful of him? Quoting, of course, from the
01:22:47: Psalms, when the philosophy department ultimately decided, you know, ultimately wanted, they submitted a different inscription above their school, a quote from Prodigoris that said,
01:22:59: Man is the measure of all things. Well, this man -centered methodology that we have adopted in the church advocates the latter and not the former.
01:23:10: It advocates that man is the measure of all things, with the self -esteem movement, and the consequences of which are demonstrated in the lack of self -control, even among believers in today's environment, in the low view of the church.
01:23:28: We have now looked somewhere else for truth, and we're so very easily, as Paul said in Ephesians 4, tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by cunning craftiness and deceitful scheming.
01:23:45: And the remedy is to speak the truth in love. And we have instead created an environment of narcissistic worship of self.
01:23:59: It's this ideology that, of course, truth is relative, and whatever is right from wrong is whatever feels right or whatever feels wrong.
01:24:10: So we have this kind of emotionally driven kind of ministry. But even when we look at the table that was set for the
01:24:23: Enlightenment predominantly in the Northeastern United States, we call many of those men who the
01:24:35: Lord used to bring about the Enlightenment, we call many of them
01:24:42: Puritans. Historically speaking, they're not exactly
01:24:48: Puritans. We call them Puritans because they had the Puritan mindset, the
01:24:54: Puritan ideology, if you will, the Puritan commitments. So they're
01:25:00: Puritans in an informal way, and we call Jonathan Edwards sort of the last of the Puritans because he wrote so much like them, and he thought like them, and he had a high view of God like them.
01:25:11: Puritans in the strictest sense, of course, refers to the nonconformists in England who refused to submit to the act of uniformity in 1662, which interestingly enough, that defined for these
01:25:26: Puritan pastors what church worship was supposed to be. It was a compromise on church worship, and they were intolerant of that.
01:25:37: So you have then these men who we informally refer to as Puritans in the
01:25:45: Northeastern United States who are committed to some key principles, or same key principles of the
01:25:51: Reformers. And so if we want to talk about how the church needs to recover from its weakened state and how the church can become a true light into the lost world again, in a world that now is in complete chaos and disunity,
01:26:14: John Calvin interestingly argued that there are two areas where Reformation has to take place. First is the preaching of the true gospel, of course.
01:26:22: That goes without saying. But then he also argued that the church's worship demonstrates the telos of the gospel, the telos all of the gospel, all of life for the glory of God.
01:26:41: And so true worship, in order to live all life to the glory of God, has to be thoughtful.
01:26:52: It has to be intellectual, which are obviously key components of the regulative principle.
01:27:01: As Jesus said in John 4, verse 24, to this Samaritan woman who was very much asking about the proper form of worship.
01:27:13: And he says, true worshipers must worship both in spirit and in truth. Well, modern worship, the seeker -sensitive, the post -seeker -sensitive, the emotionally -driven worship that we see in the church today weighs all in on the spirit component, little s.
01:27:35: Whatever, the measure of truth is what feels right. The authenticity of my worship experience is determined by my emotion, the emotional high that I have.
01:27:53: And so it's a very circular kind of argument. And it results in kind of an agnostic anti -intellectualism.
01:28:02: But where the gospel is re -established, it must follow that worship is reformed as well.
01:28:10: And interestingly, for all of these men, the
01:28:16: Puritans, the reformers, they recognized that it had to start in the local church.
01:28:24: John Owen, in fact, even argued that public worship was priority before private worship.
01:28:32: And John Calvin, likewise, you know, argued from Psalm 86 to the
01:28:40: Lord loves the gates of Zion more than all the other dwelling places of Jacob, which is why the ordinances themselves, fundamental components of worship for the
01:28:55: New Testament Christian, they're given within the context of corporate worship. And so John Calvin looked at Psalm 86 too as an example that really refutes the idea of many
01:29:09: Christians today that public worship is an appendage to private worship. And they really thought that, well, they would argue that we have that backwards.
01:29:19: And the advancement of individualism has led to this kind of self -verifying experiential worship.
01:29:32: But I think it's interesting. I remember Sinclair Ferguson. I had him in a class at the
01:29:41: Master's Seminary for some of my doctoral studies. And he said that, and this was in response to a newer book that he wrote,
01:29:52: I'm sure you're familiar with, Some Preachers and Teachers. Yes. That's kind of a,
01:29:59: I love that book. It seems to be his magnum opus kind of work.
01:30:05: But he was talking about that book, and he commented that much of what we believe is an advancement of worship is actually a return to medieval worship.
01:30:17: And he said that because of this Gnostic -like self -verifying experiential worship that we have in the
01:30:27: Church, this kind of worship that emphasizes on performance over substance, the very kind of substance that Paul argues from 1
01:30:41: Corinthians to the Corinthian Church, that actually brings the lost to Christ.
01:30:50: Anyone who is faintly familiar with the context of the
01:30:55: Corinthians, I mean, Paul opens the very opening lines with an alarming accusation or confrontation.
01:31:05: And it makes me wonder, these pastors that continue to espouse the idea that we can somehow keep changing our methodologies without compromising our message, it's as though they had never read
01:31:25: Paul's first epistle to the Church in Corinth. Because he says in the opening chapters that you were saying,
01:31:35: I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, I am of Cephas, and I am of Christ.
01:31:41: And the point is that all of them were in the wrong. What were they doing exactly? Because all of those men were obviously, and of course
01:31:50: Christ himself, they're preaching the same gospel message. They're preaching the same means of salvation.
01:31:59: So how does that lead to what was looking like a four -way church split in Corinth?
01:32:05: And Paul says, this is destroying your testimony with the lost. In fact, so much so, by the time you get to chapter 5, what they call and identify as maturity, as bringing such great reproach on Christ, they're losing their gospel witness because even the world is looking at their church and they're repulsed by what's going on there.
01:32:26: And of course, that was in context of a man sleeping with his father's wife. Well, how does any of that happen?
01:32:34: Well, the Church in Corinth had come to prize all the principles of rhetoric that emphasizes personality and detracts from ultimately the message.
01:32:55: Especially these Epicurean and Sophist philosophers.
01:33:03: And basically, it was not so much the content that was important in any kind of oratorical speech or any kind of argumentation, or in the
01:33:17: Corinthian context, of course, in preaching. It wasn't the content. It was the rhythm.
01:33:24: It was the tone of voice. It was sophistication. It was how the speaker had the ability to persuade, to sway positions, to move masses, almost through a kind of...
01:33:45: Well, it was just very entertaining. It was almost a drama, if you will.
01:33:52: It was not so much the content. And so, the Corinthians somehow identified in these men who all preached the same message these different rhetorical stratagems, if you will, and associated themselves with what they perceived to be more effective to promote
01:34:17: Church growth. And that has a bifold effect. One, it results in their immaturity.
01:34:24: By the time Paul gets to chapter 3, this is so shockingly offensive.
01:34:30: He says, I, brethren, could not speak to you as spiritual men but as to men of the flesh, as to infants in Christ.
01:34:39: Well, that's a church that thought they were mature because they were in a very reputable city, a very wealthy city.
01:34:52: They're a massive church, an established church, a new church, but an established church comparatively.
01:35:00: A very, very large church, like I said. You know, you might say that this is where all the ministry, this is where all the stuff is happening.
01:35:07: It's the go -to church in town. And they posture themselves as so wise according to the flesh, but Paul says, you're just a bunch of babies.
01:35:21: That's literally what he says. In fact, he uses the word morino when he talks about their wisdom.
01:35:31: Of course, that word would be translated eventually into English as the word moron. It had destructive consequences on their church.
01:35:40: It had affected their individual lives so that they were immature.
01:35:46: They could not live lives for the glory of God. And that affects your gospel witness.
01:35:53: It affected their church worship because now there are factions everywhere.
01:35:59: They're about to go into at least a four -way split, and there may have been more than that. And it affected greatly their love for one another as well.
01:36:11: The very thing that Jesus said we mentioned at the very beginning of the program from John 13, that the world would know we belong to Christ by our love for one another.
01:36:22: And, of course, it brought great suspicion on the church, I mean, from scoffing from the world's perspective as they observed the church and what it hypocritically would tolerate in the name of the gospel.
01:36:40: And so when we look at what needs to happen in the church, we really need to take a real square look at our true
01:36:53: Christian practice, our true corporate worship practice, in the methods that we use to exalt the
01:37:07: Lord of the church. The church exists for His pleasure. That's the message that we're proclaiming.
01:37:14: Men need to repent and believe the gospel. God is worthy of worship. Well, then we ought to have a philosophy of ministry that is consistent with worshiping
01:37:26: God rather than the self -promoting narcissistic self -esteem culture.
01:37:32: In fact, we have to go to our final break right now. I'm going to read a question to you and have you answer it when we return.
01:37:41: This will give you some time to think of the question because it involves a recommendation of some books.
01:37:51: Let's see. I had the question right in front of me. Here it is. John in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, who says,
01:37:59: If you can choose, I like the way he says this, one, two, or ten books outside of the
01:38:06: Bible that can help a man of God grow spiritually strong to help grow the church in the
01:38:12: Northeast, what would they be and why? And you can answer that when we come back.
01:38:18: If anybody else would like to join John in Philadelphia with their own question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com
01:38:26: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com And as always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.
01:38:39: If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
01:38:49: Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Matt Tarr. Was your business shut down during the
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01:40:55: Call 1 -800 -669 -4870. Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225
01:41:14: Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a
01:41:20: Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
01:41:26: It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
01:41:34: We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.
01:41:40: Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
01:41:47: Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.
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01:42:21: I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my
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01:42:45: I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,
01:42:51: Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
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01:50:52: Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today has been and will continue to be for less than 10 minutes,
01:51:02: Matt Tarr. We are discussing the Northeast United States as a mission field. If you have a question, send it in immediately because we're running out of time.
01:51:10: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. And as you remember, Pastor Matt, before the break, we had a question from John in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
01:51:21: He wanted you to list books outside of the Bible that can help a man of God grow spiritually strong, to help grow the church in the
01:51:28: Northeast. And what would they be and why? Yeah, I don't know why you gave me a break for that.
01:51:35: That made it worse. The more you think on it, like your bookshelf, you start buying more bookshelves is what happens.
01:51:48: And quite frankly, I'm really interested to hear some of the books that you have so I'll do this.
01:51:55: I'll just run through just a quick few that I thought of that I've required or asked some of the leaders in our church to read.
01:52:04: And then I'd love to hear from you, too. And I'm going to write those down and I'm going to put them in the shopping cart as well.
01:52:12: So, you know, generally for the Christian ministry, I think you have to,
01:52:19: I categorize things differently. We need to read a lot more of what's old than what's new to start.
01:52:25: And that's good framework. So even if you're not necessarily thinking about being an elder of the church, you don't have the desire to be the overseer of a church,
01:52:37: I think it's helpful to put in the framework of what the pastor is, even in the mind of a servant in the church, somebody who just loves
01:52:46: Christ's church. And so I would say The Christian Ministry by Charles Bridges is really helpful for that.
01:52:55: And so is Lectures to My Students, of course, by Charles Spurgeon. It's just pure gold in either one of those.
01:53:02: And The Reformed Pastor by Richard Baxter. But if we want to have a strong church, we also have to have a good, strong discipleship culture.
01:53:14: That's kind of not really something we're able to address a whole lot from Matthew 28, which is the commission of the church to make disciples of all nations.
01:53:23: And so for a man who desires to strengthen the church, either, I think it was
01:53:29: J .C. Ryle who wrote Thoughts for Young Men. Yes, he did.
01:53:35: That was actually an excerpt, I believe, from The Upper Room, but he did write that.
01:53:41: Calvary Press Publishing was the first, I believe, to make that available in its own booklet form, and others have copied that because it's public domain.
01:53:52: Yes, so Old Men and Young Men should read that. It's a really good one to take a younger man to disciple through as well.
01:54:01: And you've got to have a good systematic theology, at least one as well. I'm going to just quickly say, go to solid -groundishbooks .com
01:54:12: and ask them for their recommendations. They sponsor this program, and Mike Gadosh has a wealth of information on this, and he is humble enough to recommend things outside of his own publishing ministry.
01:54:28: And I think one thing that you folks should be aware of is that Banner of Truth has a phenomenal offer that they are making available only through August 10th.
01:54:43: The books will be available after that, but not at this amazing price. The 22 volume set, 22 hardback books of the works of Thomas Manton are available from Banner of Truth for only $200 total.
01:55:00: It's normally $500 for this 22 volume hardback set. Thomas Manton, the great
01:55:07: Puritan, you can't go wrong with that. But also remember solid -groundishbooks .com
01:55:12: for great suggestions. And I have time for a quick answer as quickly as possible.
01:55:22: Johnny from Queens, New York says, Praise God you're doing better Chris, good to hear you back on the air.
01:55:28: Many in the reformed circle of churches have members that have escaped man -centered apostate churches.
01:55:35: How can we practically reach these people who believe their relationship with God is fine and are convinced of their spiritual experience?
01:55:45: And he asks spiritual in quotes. I think that Johnny must be categorizing these two groups of people.
01:55:53: These are different groups. Many in the reformed circle of churches that have members that have escaped man -centered apostate churches.
01:56:03: I think that's a different group than how can we practically reach these people. I think he's talking about the people you're referring to that think that they're fine and dandy because they're convinced of their own spiritual experience.
01:56:18: You know, you have people that are convinced they're saved just because they went forward for an altar call when they were 10 years old at Bible camp.
01:56:26: Right, yeah. There are a lot of good ways to answer that question. But I think maybe you start with 1
01:56:33: Peter 3. I think it's verses 1 through 7. There Peter specifically addresses how we should respond to a spouse that is kind of in that condition.
01:56:46: And there are really insightful things that he says. How we can bring them to conviction.
01:56:53: A spouse who is living in sin, which an immature believer is going to be, even though they think they're immature, just like the church in Corinth.
01:57:02: And so Paul gives really good instruction in 1 Peter 3, 1 through 7 for the wives first.
01:57:08: And then he also gives to the husband. But I think the applications from that can be applied across the board in the church as well.
01:57:16: So that's my really, really 30 ,000 foot view answer. And Laura in Bucks County, Pennsylvania has a question if you could very quickly answer.
01:57:27: How can like -minded pastors get a hold of each other in the Northeast? Yeah, so earlier in the program
01:57:34: I mentioned we had just started the Masters Fellowship of Pennsylvania Churches.
01:57:40: And that's a really good way. Of course they can connect with you, Chris. That's a really good way to do that.
01:57:47: I don't know if it's appropriate. I'm willing to throw my email out there as well if you want to connect with that group.
01:57:54: And there are several others I know that you could point them to as well. I do think that fellowship is important so that we can advance the ministry of the gospel.
01:58:04: But the one that I'm associated with is the Masters Fellowship of Pennsylvania Churches. Well, we are out of time.
01:58:12: And by the way, our two listeners are first -time questioners. So if you would like to win a free
01:58:19: New American Standard Bible, it is yours just by giving me your full mailing addresses. And we will have cvbbs .com,
01:58:27: a sponsor of this program, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. They will ship out to you the two
01:58:33: New American Standard Bibles. I want to thank you so much for being our guest today. You were extraordinary again.
01:58:39: And don't forget, folks, the website for High Point Baptist Church is highpointbaptist .church. highpointbaptist .church
01:58:46: To attend the Biblical Counseling Seminar at High Point Baptist, go to biblicalcounseling .com
01:58:52: forward slash scranton -pa -training That's biblicalcounseling .com
01:58:59: forward slash scranton -pa -training I hope that everybody listening has a safe and wonderful and refreshing and reinvigorating weekend and a
01:59:12: Christ -honoring Lord's Day. And I hope you all remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater