Are You a Legalist or an Antinomian? | Theocast

Hi, this is Justin. Are you a legalist or an antinomian? Most people would say they're neither one, but there is clearly a problem in the church in terms of knowing what to do with God's law. We're going to talk about the law today and the gospel and seek to answer the question, how in the world could Paul say that he delights in the law of God in his inner man?

We hope this is encouraging. We hope it's helpful. Stay tuned.

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Thanks for listening.

Theocast Introduction and Weekly Podcast Banter

Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ. Conversations about the Christian life from a Reformed perspective. Our hosts today are John Moffitt, pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee, and myself, Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina.

We have met again this week, John, to podcast. It is the grind of a weekly podcast, my friend. Here we are on another Wednesday morning.

Yes. Yeah.

I've mentioned this before, but this is like my sixth year podcasting. So we do about 50 episodes a year and it's a lot of work, but we love it. Because of the podcast, we've been able to see Church's Planet and I've met you and Jimmy.

So there's definitely a lot of bonuses to church planning. So one of the things that we like to do is new to Theocast is give things away that have been significant to us. And if you want us to give something away, just shoot us an email.

Who knows? Maybe one day we'll give away a car. Someone need a car, we'll give one away. I don't know. Or a plane.

You know, maybe Benny Hinn will donate his plane.

We'll get to give it away to somebody. I don't know. A book that Justin Perdue has recommended quite often. We wanted to give some of these away that we have found useful. So it's called God's Way of Peace by Horatius Bonar.

And the subtitle is pretty helpful, kind of giving it away. What's the subtitle, JP?

A book for the anxious. And by that, he doesn't mean anxious like we might mean anxiety today in a therapeutic sense. He means a book for those who are anxious before God in terms of their standing before him.

So it's a really good book.

We were discussing how his name is pronounced. I've always pronounced it as Bonner.

Yeah.

So I think you could go either way.

You can.

I've heard Bonar and Bonner.

So, yeah, anyways, we by God's sovereignty and the choice of the will of names, we're going to give one of these away to our members today. And so we ran that wheel this morning. And it takes a while because there's a lot of names in there.

And Mr. Jason Glass, you have won yourself a free copy of this book. When you hear this podcast, just go ahead and send us an email to confirm your address and we will ship that out to you. And if you would like a copy of this book, we're going to give it away for free.

You can in the description of this podcast, you can see a link to the Amazon if you want to buy one, if you don't want to wait. But if you want to earn one for free, go right now. It's Wednesday morning.

Go to our social media. So Instagram, Facebook or Twitter, there'll be instructions there on how to win a free copy of this book. We put it out every Wednesday morning and then Thursday we will pick one of you through the random the sovereign choice of the wheel of names.

Yeah.

Well, and you'll find out on Thursday and we'll send that to you.

Every time.

Thank you, guys.

Good.

Every time I hear wheel of names right now, I immediately think Wheel of Fortune because Wheel of Fortune, the Purdue family of late, Wheel of Fortune is now on Netflix, for those who don't know. And we have been watching Wheel of Fortune with our kids sometimes.

And our kids are just all about it. They're saying every along, man, I always think of the scene from Rain Man, you know, where he's just like Wheel of Fortune, you know, and I feel like that's what's going on.

Like in my household, my kids all the time are just like, can we watch Wheel of Fortune? Anyway. Yep.

Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune were what I watched with my grandma all the time.

That little tidbit from the Purdue house was free. Didn't have to pay for that.

So, Justin.

That's what people tune in for, I guess.

Speaking of Fortune and Wheel, I have no transition for us other than.

Yeah, I don't see that going anywhere, John.

We should just go ahead and talk about it.

I'm just going to go ahead.

Talk about our topic today.

Yeah.

The Law, the Gospel, and the Problem of Legalism and Antinomianism

So, we have observed that there is a problem in the evangelical church, broadly speaking, with respect to God's law. It seems that many evangelicals, and John, I mean, you and I, just to be very clear, at one point absolutely would have been here ourselves in the midst of this struggle.

And it's only by God's grace and just other people who have helped us see some good things that we are no longer where we once were on this. And it's not that we've got it all figured out, but praise God, we're not where we used to be.

So, there's this problem in evangelicalism with respect to God's law. We just don't know what to do with it. What do we do with God's law? You see some people on the one side of the equation who maybe are bent towards self-righteousness, who have a reasonable amount of confidence in themselves that they can do the right things.

Or maybe they're the kind of people that just tend to do the right stuff often anyway. And those people look to God's law and don't have a lot of problem with it because they have deluded themselves somehow into thinking that they can keep it, that they can meet God's standard or do well enough that God would look favorably upon them.

And then on the other side of the aisle, you have people who have a more tender conscience perhaps, are aware in some ways of their own weakness and their own frailty, and they look at God's law and see something that is threatening and condemning.

And thereby, deep down, there's a resentment and a hatred even of God's law and even of God himself because they fear that he's going to drop the hammer on them at some point. And so, yeah, you've got sort of these two camps.

One might be referred to as a more legalistic camp that is often characterized by self-righteousness and condescension and the like, and thinking that they can do enough to earn righteousness or be considered righteous in the eyes of God.

And then this other side that we might call the antinomian camp, who are maybe comprised of people that have a more tender conscience, that see God's law as threatening and thereby sort of hate God and his commandments.

And so, there don't seem to be too many people in between who have a right and biblical understanding of God, his law, and his commandments, what he requires of us. For example, John, we read the words of Paul in Romans 7, and you may not want to talk about this just yet.

I'm just going to go ahead and drop this bomb and set the grenade on the table and pull the pin. We read the words of Paul in Romans 7, verse 22, that he delights in the law of God and his inner man. I mean, some people might read that and be incredibly puzzled by it in terms of how could a person say such a thing.

Other people might read that and just assume that, well, yeah, maybe even a non-Christian could say that. Because you hear some people say that Romans 7 is about Paul in an unregenerate state, which we don't agree with, and we'll explain why.

Yeah, we will explain that. One of the things that I feel like we have to clarify, as new people keep coming to the podcast and even people that have been here for a while, there are categories that people throw around that don't match up with the theological teachings of the Bible.

For years, we have been told that we have an improper view of the law. We are antinomians.

Meaning anti-nomos, meaning against the law.

Against the law. One of the things that we want to do in this podcast is clarify the difference between those who are against the law and those who love the law, and then those who are inappropriately using the law, which would be legalists.

So, being able to identify where you're at.

That's really good, John. Those who hate the law, who are against it, antinomians. Those who are, like in a 1 Timothy 1 kind of way, not using the law lawfully, that is the legalists. Then there's something in between, where Paul is, we would argue, in Romans 7, where he is a believer who understands that he's a sinner, but he can still say he delights in God's law.

How is that possible?

So, Justin, one of the things we probably should start with is a clear definition of what the law is. Then we can identify how people fall off on either side, whether it's antinomian or legalism. So, start with, why don't you start with the definition of the law, and then I'll talk about how we fall off, how one can fall off into antinomianism with misunderstanding the law.

Yeah.

So, what I'm about to articulate is really an answer to the question, what is the law for? If you were really pressed to answer that, that's a good exercise even for the listener, if you were pressed to give one answer.

Now, obviously, there are multiple things that the law is for, but at its most primary basic level, why did God give the law? We would find the answers to that question, or the answer, I should say, to that question most pointedly in Romans 5, Galatians 3, where the Apostle Paul makes it very clear that the law was given to increase the trespass of man.

The law was given to, in other words, show us the depth of our corruption, to show us the extent of our sinfulness before the Lord, and to thereby drive us outside of ourselves to the only hope that we could ever have for salvation.

Namely, that is God's Christ, Jesus, who did everything that we need in order to be reconciled to God, which I can go ahead and talk about right now, John, if you want me to, just in terms of a right understanding of law and gospel, really is what I'm getting at now.

So, as we understand the law rightly, that it was given to increase the trespass, to show us the depth of our sin, and to drive us to Christ, we see in the Lord Jesus Christ, in God's gospel, the fact that Christ did multiple things for us.

He died the death that we deserve, because lawbreakers deserve to die. And so, Jesus died a lawbreaker's death, and in Him, we died to the law, Galatians 2. So, His death is counted to us. The penalty we deserve, He took for us.

The wrath and the condemnation and the judgment we deserve, He took upon Himself for us. So, He fulfilled the penalties of the law in the place of those who trust in Him.

Justin, just to add to that, even in God's sovereignty in the narrative, Jesus died as a lawbreaker to Rome, as an insurrectionist. He took the place of Barabbas, just to make it as clear as possible.

And He became a curse for us. He was hung on a tree, cursed as everyone who's hung on a tree. All of these things, Christ did for us so that He could pay the penalty the law requires of every lawbreaker.

And not only did Christ do that, He also accomplished everything that we need with respect to the law by fulfilling it for us. So, Jesus has a perfect record of obedience. At the level of His thoughts, His desires, His deeds, His motivation, everything was always perfect in His earthly life.

And in doing that, He fulfilled the law in a flawless manner. And so, our record is trash. His record is perfect. And we get His obedience and righteousness counted to us. And so, a right understanding of the law and the gospel is critical for the Christian life wholesale.

If we're going to be able to make up and down and heads and tails of stuff, and if we're ever going to think of God's law rightly, you've got to think of it in these terms. I could riff for a while. We've got a lot more to say.

I want to give you an opportunity. Talk about how people kind of fall off one side or the other because they don't understand some of what we're talking about.

So, one of the things that happens is that when you start emphasizing the gospel and you start preaching by grace alone, through Christ alone, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, immediately people begin to get a little nervous if you don't emphasize back into that gospel the law.

And so, they throw at you, hey, be careful, you're becoming an antinomian. And so, what their fear is, is this. If you're saying it's all by grace and there's no works necessary, then you are saying that holiness is not necessary.

And then they'll say, if you're teaching that, you're an antinomian. And so, let's be clear historically on what an antinomian is. An antinomian is one who literally says they do not believe that there is any law or use of the law for the Christian after regeneration or after coming to Christ.

There is no need for the law whatsoever. And so, they don't think there's no necessary to obey any of the commands of scripture, there's no moral law, nothing. And so, I walk by faith and there's no need to obey.

That is a true antinomian. Now, I will agree with that if we're talking about one's justification. If we're talking about your justification, then the law has no use in your justification other than to show you your need for it.

Right?

To show you your need of Christ.

Right.

An antinomian, unfortunately, says, oh no, it's not only not for your justification, but it's also not for your Christian walk going forward. That's a true antinomian. So, we would have to say, come in and say, well, Paul and James and Timothy and 2 Peter all make it very clear that post-salvation, when Paul says in Ephesians, walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, he then describes meekness and patience and gentleness and love.

Those are commands, those are laws given to the believer, what we call the third use of the law.

Romans 13, you know, love your neighbor, love one another, and thus thereby fulfill the law.

But those are not part of our justification. We call that the work of the Spirit. We call that the fruit of the Spirit. So, the Spirit works within us and therefore we love. So, when we emphasize justification by faith alone, we literally mean by faith alone.

When people say, but the danger is here, and this is why we're having this conversation, the danger is immediately people come in and say, yeah, but faith without works is dead. And there's this necessity to always throw that on there.

And that is where I would say one is falling off on the other side, which is legalism. So, I know this could sound like a really nuanced conversation, but it's important for us to understand that when someone says antinomian, you need to understand they mean there is absolutely no obedience and no law for the believer post-salvation.

That's a true antinomian. That's what it truly, really means to be an antinomian. We have to keep that kettle clear. So, when someone says to, I mean, I love the Martin Lourdes Jones quote when he says, if you aren't being accused of being an antinomian after preaching the gospel, you haven't preached the gospel rightly.

Because there is no law in the gospel. Let me say it again. There is no law in the gospel. This is why we talk about law gospel distinction.

Why the Gospel, Not More Law, Is the Antidote to Antinomianism

Yeah, I think we need to understand that these two camps, as we're describing them, one being the antinomian camp, one being the legalistic camp, just to describe them a little bit more before we maybe pivot here.

The antinomian is a person who understands something of God's holiness, understands something of the requirements of the law, and thereby sees that he or she can't quite do that. And there is this kind of threatening judgment kind of exacting thing going on with the law.

And that person has not rightly understood the work of Christ in his or her place, and thereby has this disdain deep down in his or her heart for the law, and thereby is running away from it as fast as he or she can.

I mean, that is the project of antinomianism, right? It's to kind of plug our ears and scream at the top of our lungs and run away from the law because deep down we hate it. That's that side. But then on the legalistic side, you have people who actually, though they love to talk about holiness and obedience and all these things, they have not understood the holiness of God because they don't understand what he actually requires and how everything that they have ever done is tainted with sin.

And they have dumbed down the law to a level of thinking that they can fulfill it and keep it and all those kinds of things. And so they have lacked understanding as well and have also not seen the gospel in terms of the work of Christ in their place.

And so neither of those places is where we want to be. What we see presented in Scripture is something different, where it is very clear that Christ has accomplished everything that is necessary for us to be saved.

He has paid our debt, paid our penalty, accomplished our righteousness, given us his own holiness. We are safe and we are secure. And we can then say, we love God's law. So what in the world does that mean?

What in the world does that look like? For example, in Romans 7, 22, Paul says that he delights in the law of God in his inner man. A couple of thoughts on this, John, from me. There are people out there who will say that Romans 7 is Paul writing about his unregenerate state or about a non-believer.

With this whole situation of, I want to do good, but I can't. I don't want to do evil, but I do evil. Whenever I want to do good, evil lies close at hand. I have a desire to do what's right, but I can't pull it off.

And I delight in the law of God in my inner man, but I see in my members another law waging war against my mind. When Paul writes in those ways, people will say, well, he's talking about somebody who isn't a Christian.

To which I would say, that's clearly not true on multiple levels. Look at the flow of the letter, first of all. But then another observation is, well, how does a person who naturally is opposed to God and doesn't delight in the things of God, doesn't even understand the things of God naturally, 1 Corinthians 2, how could such a person delight in God's law?

I don't think it's possible. But second observation, which is more relevant to our conversation today, only a person, and this is maybe the most important thing that I'm going to say today, only a person who has been justified, forgiven, and absolved could ever make such a statement that they delight in God's law.

I'm going to say that again. Only a person who has been justified, forgiven, and absolved could ever say that he or she delights in God's law.

Why?

Because unless you know that you've been declared righteous, unless you know that you've been forgiven of sin, and unless you know that you have been absolved of all guilt because of Christ alone, by the means of faith alone, you could never say that you delight in God's law because God's law condemns you.

And God's law threatens you. And God is still your judge. And thereby, unless you know that you've been justified, forgiven, and absolved, you're going to hate God's law, and you're going to hate Him, frankly.

And so Paul clearly, in Romans 7, is writing as a believer who understands his position, his identity. He knows he's justified. That's his status, Romans 5. He knows his identity. He's united to Christ, Romans 6.

And yet, here's his experience. But he can say he delights in God's law because he knows that he's justified, forgiven, and absolved of guilt.

If you're new to Theocast, we have a free e-book available for you called Faith vs. Faithfulness, A Primer on Rest. And if you've struggled with legalism, a lack of assurance, or simply want to know what it means to live by faith alone, we wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a Reformed confessional perspective.

You can get your free copy at theocast .org slash primer.

And we have to say the law is rejected, rightly understood. There are many people today who will change the law of God.

Thank you for that clarification.

Yeah, they will change the law of God, and they will say things like, oh, no, yeah, I think God just requires people to be a good person, and then God will let them come into heaven. Well, they just changed the requirements of the law.

Yeah, they did.

And they like that law. Oh, good person? Okay, yeah, I mean, I'm better than most. So every time I say that, I think of that Tiger quote, better than most.

Yeah, better than most.

Yeah, on the TPC sawgrass.

Yeah, on the putt.

17th hole. Yeah, players championship. Gary Koch making the call. There it is.

Come on now.

We hope Mr. Tiger gets better soon. Anyways, we changed the law, and the weight of the law should crush everyone. Absolutely crush them. So when someone says, well, I think this is what God requires, and it doesn't crush you as an unbeliever, I should say, as an unbeliever, then that's not God's law.

That's your law. That's your misinterpretation of God's law. God's law, someone should hear it as an unbeliever and go, that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. No one can do that. No one can do that. You're like, now you understand God's law.

Well, then I don't like God. Exactly. Then you are redeemed, pulled out from underneath the weight of the law. And all of a sudden, you look down at the law from God's view, not underneath the weight of it, but looking down upon it.

And you're like, wow, this is beautiful. This is glorious. This is the nature of God. This is what God looks like within a broken humanity. This is the perspective we should have.

So the law in its threatening first use sense is characterized by statements such as this. You must be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If you break the law in any way, you're guilty of breaking all of it.

James 2. If your works are going to contribute to your salvation, then you need to keep the whole law in Galatians 5. Then also, those who do these things shall live by them. Leviticus 18. Deuteronomy 27.

Anybody who does not keep everything that's written in this law is cursed. This is how the law speaks. And to your point, John, if we understand that rightly in terms of what the Lord requires, and Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount makes it very clear that it's not just some external conformity, it's actually at the level of the heart and the mind, then yes, we read that and we hear that and we say, well, I hate that because that is my death sentence.

That's right.

And I'm ruined. And what can I do? And at that point, like you said, at that point, you are ready to hear the gospel.

That's right.

Because then the message of the gospel is, everything that the law is pointing out, that weight that's impossible for you to bear, Christ took that. He bore that. He said, you know what? That burden that you can't bear, I'm happy to take that.

I'll carry it for you. And I will pay your penalty because you deserve it. And I will accomplish your righteousness because you need it. Trust me. Right? And it's done. You're safe. You're secure. You'll live with God forever.

You will be bodily resurrected, imperishable, incorruptible.

That's right.

And you will forever obey God perfectly and rejoice in Him perfectly. And I have secured that for you. To which we say, hallelujah, and praise the Lord. So that's the law and the gospel distinction that we're talking about.

And it's so clear, John, biblically, that that conversion, right? Coming from death to life, et cetera, has to happen for a person to ever be able to say that I delight in God's law.

That's right.

So, for example, consider the pattern even of some of the words in the Psalms. Psalm 130 and verse 4 reads this way. But with you, speaking of God, but with you, there is forgiveness that you may be feared.

Listen to that sequence. With the Lord, there is forgiveness of sins. And the fact that the Lord forgives sins, right? Think Exodus 34. I am a God merciful and gracious and slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin, right?

Because that's who God is, that actually leads His people to reverence Him.

That's right.

And to fear Him, to love Him, right? Or Psalm 119 and verse 32 says that we will run after God's commandments when you have enlarged my heart, right? When you have done something internally for me, I will run after your commandments.

It's exactly what Paul is saying in Romans 7, that because I know I'm safe and because I've been justified, forgiven, and absolved, I can now look to God's law and say I delight in it. It's good. It's wonderful.

Because why? It no longer condemns me. It no longer threatens me because Christ has removed its sting. And now I can look to it as the perfect, holy, righteous, all good guide for my life. So in other words, this allows us to then look at the law and use it in the third use kind of way as the perfect guide for the life of the Christian.

The Third Use of the Law and Christian Obedience

Yeah.

The other side of this, and this is where there's a confusion between law and gospel. So the antinomian just pretty much rejects the law after justification. The legalist confuses the law and the gospel and collapses them together.

So you have one abandoning law, and now you have one mixing law, okay? So it's really important to understand this because, again, antinomian is one to reject the law after justification. There's no use for it, and they hate it.

The legalist then mixes the law and the gospel. So here's a great example of this is that, yes, we are saved by faith alone, and they will preach that from the mountaintops, but they will call your salvation or your assurance into question based upon your level of obedience to the law, right?

So this is where it's highly confusing because they will say, Oh, no, sola fide, sola fide, faith alone, faith alone. But if you don't do this, this, and this, which is law, anytime you say you must do this, this is law, in order for this result, which is your assurance, that's a mixture of the law and gospel.

So please be very clear on what we're saying. Christians are called to obey. It is actually not a call, it's a promise. Those to whom the Spirit indwells, there will be obedience, right? To what level is varying, it's a varying level.

There will also be struggle against sin. I love saying this because it throws people off. God expects you to sin. Otherwise, 1 John 1 .9 would not be in the Bible.

James 5 .16, confess your sins to one another.

Exactly. So the legalist, what they're doing, this is how to identify if you're a legalist, if you are seeing that there is absolute requirements for you to perform in a certain way, otherwise, basically, you will either lose your justification or you do not have justification.

There's two kinds of legalists. There's those who use the law to gain salvation, and there's those who use the law to maintain salvation. So there's probably no one listening to this podcast, unless maybe you come from a Roman Catholic background, there's no one who's using the law to try and gain justification, you know, your salvation.

There are plenty of people who use the law to try and affirm it, or maintain it. So Justin, what are your thoughts on kind of that mixture or that explanation of legalism?

I agree with you, and I have something else in my mind that's related to something you were saying, even about antinomianism. So I think at the heart of antinomianism too, this is just my thought and observation here, is a lack of understanding and is a misunderstanding even of the gospel and what Christ has accomplished for us.

And I get this mainly from Romans 5 and 6. So a lot of times people think that the antidote to antinomianism, being against the law, is to preach the law, and I don't think that's right. I think that the antidote to antinomianism is actually to preach the gospel and to clarify who we are now in the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's all about identity, right? Because that's how Paul responds. He realizes that the gospel that he has laid out in the first several chapters of Romans would lead a person to ask the question, so we can just sin now, right?

Because not only has Jesus accomplished all these things for us, and that the righteousness of God is revealed apart from the law for all those who have faith in Christ, and God justifies the ungodly by faith.

Not only is all that true, you just said that the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin abounded, grace abounded all the more. So should we just sin? And Paul answers, well, by no means, and he doesn't say, well, by no means, because here's what the law says.

He says, by no means, because here's who you are now. You've been united to the Lord Jesus Christ. You've been baptized into Him. This is what your baptism was about. You've been united to Him in His death.

In Him, you died to the law. His death is your death. You've been united to Him in His perfect life and in His resurrection, which not only secures your resurrection, but means that even now, you are raised to walk in newness of life, and you are no longer under the dominion of sin, and you've become obedient from the heart.

In other words, obey because you can. Obey because you want to for the first time in your life. Remember who you are now. You're not who you used to be. That's his response. And so I think that antinomian out there, who is running as fast as he can away from the law because he hates it, has not fully understood the work of Christ in his place, and has not fully understood his new identity, and who he is, and that he's not who he used to be.

Because it's only in understanding all of those things, John, like 1 Corinthians 1 .30, that Jesus has become to us wisdom from God, righteousness, like He is our righteousness. He's sanctification for us and redemption for us.

He's secured everything. He's everything. It's in understanding that that we can actually look at the commandments of God and say, those are good. They're not a burden.

I mean, he who began a good work in you will complete it. You're realizing that's a wonderful promise.

It is a wonderful promise. And the commandments are good because we can look to them and they no longer come across like a trip to the DMV, or they no longer come across like I've just been sentenced to the electric chair.