2021 Summer of Interviews: Luke Abendroth Interview (2020) (Part 1)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Holiday Greetings and Introduction to Luke Abendroth

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. It�s the holiday season, and I�m glad to be back in the studio. Today, I�m looking outside. It�s about 46 degrees here in central Massachusetts.

A little snow on the ground, and my son, my only son, my favorite son, Luke Abendroth, is here with me. Luke, welcome back to No Compromise Radio ministry.

Thank you. I�m also sitting, trying to look outside, but the shades are down on my window, so you get the special seat.

That�s because I want the guest to.

At first, I thought your shade was down, too, and you were just making stuff up, but then I saw your integrity. Yeah.

Well, the only way you can see my integrity is through my works. That�s right. Like James vindicated. Luke, I think this is, what, the third winter in a row I�ve had you on No Compromise Radio? I think so.

That sounds right. Three years. And we just played some reruns from last year, even.

Somebody was telling me that at church on Sunday, so they gave me kind of the look.

Okay, so let�s just have a little recap for those who don�t know you. You�re Luke Abendroth. You have my last name, and you have my first name, right? That�s right. Your first name is my middle name. Okay.

Michael, with no A. Ooh, does anybody dog you about that, like they�ve dogged me through the years?

No, because they don�t see it, because I don�t spell my middle name very often. You�re ashamed. I�m ashamed.

Aw. The Lord is not ashamed to call us brothers, but you�re ashamed to call my first name your middle name. All right, tell me what�s going on in your life. You�re now 23 years old, and tell me about your ministry there in Los Angeles.

So I help lead one of our high school Bible studies, and it�s a regional Bible study in the Santa Clarita area. And yeah, it�s great. I get to teach some and kind of share the teaching load with a few other guys, and we just did like an apologetic series and a few other things, so it�s been fun.

Tell me about that, Luke. You had different leaders come to the group, and then they were, you know, they took on the persona and the theology and acted like, what was it, they acted like a Mormon, acted like a Scientologist?

Yeah, we had different people come in. We had a guy who pretended to be an atheist, a Roman Catholic. I was a Roman Catholic. And then we had, I think, a Mormon, a Jehovah�s Witness. We had like a liberal, Rob Bell type.

Oh, did he have cool glasses? He tried, and then he had some kind of scarf on and stuff like that. He did, he did.

Well, that�d be interesting to think, how do you dress up like a theological liberal? Scarves. It�s true. Uh-huh. Now, you dressed up like a Roman Catholic. Did you have a rosary on, or how did that work?

No, I put the monk outfit on, so it was kind of a throwback.

I was wondering why you arrived in Massachusetts with your hair in a tonsil. Right.

Actually, I did think, you know, maybe I should shave the tonsil because that�d be a special youth group memory, you know? That�s something you do as a youth leader, so.

Yeah, with the peanut butter on the face and throwing the cheese balls if they stick, you get a prize or something. That�s the only one I can ever remember. So you�ve been doing that, and you�ve got some teaching opportunities these days.

Luke 15 and the Lost, Found, Rejoice Theme

Luke 15, maybe, did you teach that?

Yeah, I taught Luke 15 a couple times, and then, yeah, at a youth event and then at our church on a Sunday morning for the second service youth group, high school ministry group. So that was really fun, and, you know, a youth game for that, I think I mentioned this, would be you got to eat the carob pods.

It�s like the special pig pods. Oh, for the disobedient son. Do you think we should do that on a Sunday morning?

Carob pod pie. That sounds, some kind of purple pie.

Well, like carrot cake, it could be carob cake. Carob cake, nice. I don�t think it�s as moist. I don�t think so, either. Let�s get back to the Roman Catholic apologist thing that you went in, and you tried to act like the Roman Catholic.

Like, what was your kind of ace in the hole that you thought you�d probably trick some naive evangelical Protestants with? What were you thinking? Trying to get them to cross the Tiber. What? That�s what they call it.

First, I thought you said to cross the Piper.

No, cross the Tiber, T-I-B-E-R.

Okay, which is a metaphor or a slang for? Going from Rome to the Vatican. No, going from Protestantism to Romanism.

Well, yes, but that�s what the Tiber River is. Anyways, so, yeah, I think one of the things that we talked about a lot was they would say, you know, people would just quote, �Well, you�re saved by grace through faith and it�s like, �Oh, I agree.

That�s what Paul says. The idea that Roman Catholics believe that we�re saved by grace, but, you know, as Sinclair Ferguson says, when you ask, �How do you spell grace that�s when you get a different answer.

Is grace a substance, or is grace a person? Is it received from a person, in union with a person, or is it, you know, something in a bottle that we can pour out on us in different measures, through different means and sacraments?

So I think it was good for them to hear it be a little bit more nuanced, but still discovering at its heart that it was about the law.

Interesting. When Gracie, your sister, and my daughter went into the urgent care for her bronchial infection, whatever it was, sinus infection, they gave her a Zithromax Z-Pak, and so maybe, for the Roman Catholic, grace is like medicine.

Medicine.

That�s what it is. It�s a medicinal view of grace, so it�s like Right. It�s a substance. It�s medicine or something like that.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I read this morning in my. Am I allowed to have a quiet time? Yeah. I love quiet times.

Okay. It�s not very quiet at our house during the quiet time, but.

I heard you downstairs singing Kanye�s new album.

I think that was you.

I was reading this morning in James, and he says in James 2 .24, �You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2 .24. So if I was going to play the Roman Catholic side, I�d say, �Well, you know what?

You have all these solas, and here�s the sola, �You�re not saved by faith alone. You see?

I actually used that. The only time faith alone is used in the New Testament is to say, �You�re not saved by faith alone.

So then afterwards, did you tell them, �Oh, this is the real scoop or did you correct them, or how did that all work?

Yeah, after we had a Q &A time. Well, actually, it was interactive, so they were allowed to ask questions and challenge you, and then I would come back, and then at the end, I explained what the right answer was.

That �justified by faith alone�, that that�s the same word for �vindicated. I think it�s in 1 Timothy, right? �Vindicated by the Spirit, proved to be what he was. There�s multiple meanings for that word in the Greek.

So stuff like that we went through, and so we didn�t convince anybody to cross the tiber as far as I know.

Additionally, besides the word �justified� being �vindicated I like it that James regularly says, �You see. Because he says in chapter 2, verse 18, �Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

And then he says, verse 20, �Do you not want to be shown Verse 22, �You see. Verse 24, �You see. And therefore, we don�t know who�s saved or not, because we don�t know if they have faith. Faith is invisible.

But we do get to see their fruits and their actions, and we get to see how they�ve responded. You have Abraham, some moon god worshiper, and then all of a sudden he�s trusting in this invisible god, and he just leaves not knowing where he�s going to go, etc.

Does that make sense? That makes sense. How about a couple teaching opportunities? You�re going to fly someplace and do some youth ministry things. Do you have all your games prepared for those youth ministries there and everything?

I think I�m just going to recycle the carob pie one, carob cake.

You were too young to know. When chocolate was getting kind of attacked, it�s evil, it�s too many calories, there�s a lot of carob stuff.

Well, you just have Grandma Evie come along and say, �Dark chocolate�s good for your heart while she�s pounding in a way in the middle of the night.

Yes, but she never drank alcohol, and I think a lot of people say that red wine�s good for your heart, too.

Well, we don�t know if she drank alcohol, I�m just kidding. No, she didn�t.

My guess, Grandma Evie�s convictions were so strong regarding that, is that if she was in another country, if she was in Ethiopia and they served real wine for communion, she probably would have just said, �No, thanks.

She would have done the opposite of intinction.

Intinction. Don�t do the dipping bites.

So I think I was probably like 50 years old before somebody asked me to come speak at their church, and so now at 23, you�re going to go do some youth conference, what�s that all about?

Well, you�ve got to start early if you want to just start to climb the celebrity ladder, and my goal is by the time I�m 30, maybe have a column on TGC.

Well, do you know what happened is, they actually asked me to speak, and so I said, �Okay, and then I�ve just sent you the itinerary. So then you just show up, and they think you�re me.

I�m going to shave my head and spray on some wrinkle spray, work out my calves a little bit.

Did you know that when people are embalmed, Luke, first they take out the blood, and then they have the machine that puts in the embalming fluid, and if they put too much embalming fluid in the corpse, all the wrinkles go away, and they look way too young.

We�re talking about older people, so they have to be careful not to put too much embalming fluid in. I did not know that, but that makes sense. Uh-huh. So they have to be careful. It�s a craft. It is.

You know what? It is. It costs a lot of money to have people dealt with in the mortuary, and I think they probably deserve their money. Yeah. Sounds like a mortifying job. That reminds me of Sinclair Ferguson when asked what John Owen book have they read, and usually theological students say �Mortification of Sin�, and then he asked them why do they always say that, and they never say...

The glory of Christ. The glory of Christ. That�s right. Let�s see. So what else is happening in your life? Anything? You have a full-time job, right? You�re in sales? I am in sales. Okay. And you sell things and get commissions for those things?

Right. Light bulbs and light fixtures, not just light bulbs.

Now, give me this. This is just a fun fact for some of our listeners. You�ve got the old-school light bulbs, and you�ve got the new LEDs, and the LEDs cost a little bit more, but in the long run, is that price worth it?

Usually yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. You�re welcome. What does LED stand for? Light-emitting diode. Oh. And what were the old ones? Some kind of incandescent or something?

Incandescents, and they had fluorescents, and they got halogens.

What�s the most expensive light bulb in the world? I don�t know.

Probably some kind of. Some kind of bromide or something? Some kind of old-school something, or a new LED, some massive LED thing.

Or maybe Edison�s original one that�s probably on sale. Signed. Yeah, the Edison�s. Signed, yeah. You get shocked by it or something. All right. Talking to Luke Abendroth today on No Compromise Radio.

This is toward the end of the year in 2019. When we look forward to the new year, I like to look back in the last year. I think the Lord has shown himself very faithful in our lives, don�t you? He�s vindicated himself.

Could we say that? I think we could. Tell me about this Luke 15 deal. Now, you�re going to be preaching here on Sunday morning. You�re preaching at Bethlehem Bible Church. It�s your first Sunday morning.

Have you went over there and stood in the pulpit lately?

I�ve stood in the pulpit maybe a week ago when I was here. I stood in the pulpit once. Okay, and you just checked it out? Just checked it out. Yeah. I think there was one other guy who was setting up chairs.

He was looking at me like, �What was I doing up there

Oh, so when Francis was here setting up chairs, you were up there just kind of scoping it.

Yeah, I was pretending to work, but I was just standing up there. All right.

You were doing a parable series, you plural, at the church that you�re at. By the way, when you spoke at the youth group there, that�s probably larger than the church body here, right? Not quite, but I think pretty close.

Okay. And so you each got assigned parables, or did you get to pick which one you wanted?

I picked this parable. So we were just picking parables about the kingdom of God, and so I picked Luke 15 because I thought it was a good, just a gospel presentation and reminder and also speaks to just the nature of God�s kingdom and who�s accepted and who�s not.

So yeah, it�s a great parable.

The Lost Sheep, Lost Coin, and Prodigal Son

Luke, one of the things I love to do, you probably already know this, I like to take super famous passages, well-known passages. People think they understand them, John 3, 16 or something like that, and then when you unpack it in a message, then they always learn something.

So it�s kind of, it�s a fun thing. Instead of taking an obscure passage and then trying to make it well-known through exposition, you take some well-known passage and then try to make it obscure. No, I�m just kidding.

No, you just try to show them some other things and then they go, �Oh, you know, that was interesting. I like that. In light of that, what did you learn from Luke 15 that you thought, �You know what?

I never really considered that. Maybe other people have, but this is really meaningful in a neo-Orthodox kind of way.

A neo-Orthodox, in a Barthian kind of way. So I think the thing I liked about Luke 15 and just studying it was I obviously knew the parable and I think I even knew what I�m about to say, but just became more clear in my mind was just how it fits in the context of Luke and Jesus is trying to teach people.

He�s trying to teach, you know, all the tax collectors and sinners are coming near to him to listen to him and the Pharisees are upset. They�re the keepers of the religious law. They�re the, you know, religious conservatives.

They would be the Republicans. They liked to have their gun rights, you know, you know, I�m just kidding, but they were the kind of the defenders of the faith in a sense, and Jesus is going to teach them about the kingdom, and I think just in the context of you got these three parables.

You got the lost sheep, the lost coin, and then the prodigal son, and there�s this theme lost, found, rejoice. Lost, found, rejoice. One sheep is lost. He leaves a 99, the shepherd, and he brings the sheep back and everybody has a party.

Lost, found, rejoice. The woman loses a coin. She has 10 coins. She loses one. She finds it. She rejoices. Lost, found, rejoice. And then you get to the prodigal son and it�s lost, found, rejoice, but there�s something else there, and oftentimes when you have that kind of structure, you should be paying attention to what�s different because that�s really important and that�s oftentimes kind of the point of what�s trying to be said, and I think that�s where you see the older son.

You have the prodigal. He runs away and the older son is upset and angry at the grace being shown to the prodigal, and that�s really Jesus� driving. He�s writing. He�s telling this parable to the Pharisees that teach them these kingdom principles that they are the older brother.

They can�t rejoice in the grace of God being shown to others and that grace is for those who recognize they�re sinful, and I think maybe you said this recently, but I like the Jerry Bridges story about the judge.

Did you already say this on the radio show recently? Probably not, but� So there�s the judge who he had sentenced some man and ended up kneeling at the communion rail. I don�t know what tradition the church was.

I don�t think they were Catholic, but whatever more high church tradition, and they�re kneeling at the communion rail. Together. Together. Together, yeah, next to a man that he had sentenced and he looked over and recognized him and he received communion.

Then after that, somebody came up to the judge and said, �Wasn�t that the man you sentenced The gist of it was they had a conversation about it and the judge said, �That�s a miracle. Only by the grace of God could that happen.

The other person in the conversation was thinking, �Yeah, it�s amazing. A miracle. This man who you sentenced would be kneeling at the communion rail and the judge had to correct him and say, �No, the miracle is that me, a good citizen, somebody who upholds the law, who contributes to society, who does all these amazing things, is kneeling down recognizing his need for a Savior.

I think that goes hand-in-hand with the principle Jesus is trying to teach, which is salvation is for those who recognize their sin and trust in Christ.

Self-righteousness, Luther said, has to be beaten down every single week because it just raises itself up, not only in the unbeliever, of course, but even in believers like us, somehow thinking we stand before God based on what we�ve done in some way, shape, or form.

Sincerity, Original Sin, and Grace in Christ

Luke, it seems these days a lot of people think that if they�re sincere in their works, although their works aren�t perfect, that God accepts those works based on the sincerity of the heart. What�s wrong with that?

Well, God wouldn�t really be just. I was just reading that little thing you gave me for Christmas, Theodore Bey�s Introduction to the Christian Faith, and he talks about how there�s two errors that plague the church most of all.

One of them was the idea that anything sincere, anything offered sincerely, is good and positive. It�s dangerous because it�s not true. It�s not true that anything sincere is good because you see all kinds of sincere people, sincere people who blow themselves up to crash planes into buildings, sincere people who murder babies.

We�re not necessarily saying these people aren�t sincere, but they can be sincerely wrong. Even our best works, the only reason that they could be pleasing to God is because we are united to Jesus Christ, and any relationship that we have with the Father is mediated through the Son.

So, I think it�s sincerely, you can be sincere and be sincerely wrong, and kind of as the old phrase used to say, the road to hell was paved with good intentions.

Peter Deluso. Luke, in addition, and I know you agree with this, when people think, �Well, I�ll just do good works, and even though they�re not perfect works, God will count my sincerity against those or for those in addition to.

But the problem with that is it does not factor in really the concept of original sin, depravity, fall, imputation of Adam�s sin, federal headship. Has anyone ever done something to God and loved Him in such a way with his heart perfectly, 100 pure outside the Lord Jesus?

And we know the answer to that. So, you can�t say, �Well, I�m really doing things sincerely, therefore God takes them to heart, as it were. But we�ve never done anything sincerely anyway. We might think they�re sincere from our perspective, but still, they are less than sincere.

What does �sincere� mean, actually, �without wax� or something? Is that in Latin?

Peter Deluso You�re more the etymology man than me. Peter Deluso But I�m trying to teach you.

So, do you want to go to seminary? Oh, yeah, we can get to Luke 15 in a second. Do you want to go to seminary? What do you want to do there?

Peter Deluso. I think so, yeah. In a couple of years, just trying to pay off my loans and work for a while, get some life experience. But what do I want to do there?

What do you mean by that? Peter Deluso. No, I just didn�t know if you want to be in full-time ministry. I know you want to be in ministry, and you are now, but do you want to be in full-time ministry?

Peter Deluso. Yeah, I think so. I think that the Lord is confirming that as time goes on through opportunities and people around me. But we�ll see what the Lord has. Are you tweeting during this?

I�m not doing that. I just saw something on my tweet come up. Luke Abendroth, we tweeted a tweet. Peter Deluso. Important thread on NT. Right. I just saw it on your phone. I know. Let�s see what we�re talking about.

Oh, now, I�ve done a lot of dumb things as a parent. Have I ever... What are you doing? Peter Deluso. Luke Abendroth. Four minutes. Oh, okay. Have I ever... Do you think I pushed you into the ministry?

Peter Deluso. You pushed and shoved. I would say. Like Brian Reagan, push and shove. Push and shove, everybody. Last helicopter I don�t need now. Yeah, that�s good. Did I push you into it?

Did you feel the pressure? No, I didn�t hate it, but when I was a kid, I mean, I was a believer, but I just never wanted to be a pastor. There were two things I didn�t want to do. Didn�t want to be a pastor and didn�t want to do sales.

Seriously? Seriously. Why? Because I did both. I don�t want to do corporate America. It sounds so boring. And now I�m in sales, and I think I might want to be a pastor someday. So, anyways, I don�t think you really pushed me into it, but I think that we�re very similar in some ways, and so I think just the desire for ministry grew, and it�s good in some ways, but I think you kind of see either you follow in your parents� footsteps or you�re a major disaster.

So, I�ve got some extra motivation to honor you, and yeah, but I don�t think you pushed me. You pushed me in other ways. Not like mom pushed us to surf. We hated surfing. 6 a .m., wake up, go out, paddle, cold water.

I had to pay for the private lessons, too. Don�t forget, buddy. Mom did the brunt of the work, but there�s a lot of boards carrying up and down. You kids were too little to carry your boards all the way down to the hook.

Context, Tax Collectors, and Sinners in Luke 15

Back to Luke 15 for the last couple minutes. So, context when it comes to parables. I was taught context is one of the most important things, the occasion or the situation. It says at the beginning of Luke 15, �Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear Jesus, and the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, �This man receives sinners and eats with them.

Tell our listeners why that�s really the key to unlock the next three parables, the triad.

Yeah, it�s really the key because it�s the occasion for the parable. So, you want to always ask yourself, why is Jesus telling this parable, what�s the context, why is this principle needing to be taught?

And it�s because the Pharisees, they think that Jesus shouldn�t receive the sinners. He shouldn�t eat with them. He should receive them.

And they didn�t. And they didn�t receive the sinners. The sinners needed to clean themselves up before they approached the Pharisee. Right.

So, I think that Jesus sees that and he wants to communicate them that, you know, the funny thing is, he�s not disagreeing with them. They just have different ideas about what this is, and I think, you know, one of the ways I ended my sermon last time I preached this was, you know, the occasion for the parable, the greatest complaint to the Pharisees, the greatest complaint from anyone who�s self-righteous is, Jesus and Christians, it should be Christians too, receive sinners and eat with them.

This man receives sinners and eat with them. It�s this grumbling attitude, but this is the good news of the parable. This man receives sinners and eats with them. It�s good news. Jesus is agreeing with them.

This is exactly right. That�s exactly what he does. He receives sinners and eats with them, and they might think that�s terrible, but they need to recognize these self-righteous people. That�s them. This is being told about them.

They�re a sinner as well against God�s perfect standard of the law, and Jesus perpetuates that over and over and over. Perfect obedience is required, and that�s why the only reason we can come to God is by faith in what Jesus Christ has done.

Alone.

That�s right. That�s right. Well, Luke, this has been a fast 24 and a half minutes. If anybody wants to get a hold of Luke or maybe wants to have him come do some conference or whatever, you can email me, mike at nocompromiseradio .com.

If you send it to luke at nocompromiseradio .com, I think it just goes into the ether. I don�t think it works, yeah. Do you like being called NoCoJr? Or Mike�s cell phone number is? I�m just kidding. I�ve posted online before.

You know, �Here, Paul Washer, I need you to call me. He never did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it�s out there. People know. I know. People know. Thanks for listening. I�m Mike Abendroth with Luke Abendroth, No Compromise Radio, NoCoSr, NoCoJr.

See you later. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God�s Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We�re right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.