Matthew 24 part 2

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Join us this Thursday as we continue the conversation on Matthew 24. It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I’m just fine.

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Matthew 24 part 3

Matthew 24 part 3

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And just like that, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. My name is
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Jeff, and I am one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church.
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And I'd like to welcome you all to Open Earth Theology. I also have a YouTube channel called
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My Two Cents with Jeff Rice, that's cents with a Z. And I am the co -owner of Post Tenderbreast Lux Bible Rebinding.
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And I'm here with my good friend Brayden. Brayden, why don't you introduce yourself, brother? Yeah, I am Pastor Brayden of Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho.
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It's a blessing and a privilege to be able to preach Christ crucified, as it is always a good time to do such. So I look forward tonight as we continue in Matthew chapter 24.
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But I also own a YouTube channel or part of a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon. I hope that there are some
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LDS people that might be watching this tonight. As we can see, Christians, two
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Christians, me and Jeff, dialogue over the Bible and hopefully present the gospel to anybody that be listening tonight.
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So. Yeah, so for those of you that may not know, so me and Brayden are
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Christians and there's a lot that Brayden and I agree about. But there's gonna be some stuff in Matthew 24 that we don't see eye to eye with.
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And no matter how hard I kick at him, he just he just doesn't get it.
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Right. And no matter how hard he kicks at me, I just don't see how he's seeing things.
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And I was speaking to a guy that I work for, my old boss, speaking to him a couple of weeks ago.
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And he mentioned how, you know, he's been watching, you know, here and there. And he really likes Brayden. He liked the fact that me and Brayden can get on here and disagree.
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And there's no sparks flying. He said that, you know, that that more
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Christian dialogue needs to be done this way. And if you paid attention earlier, we as as as Pastor Brayden was saying, we we kind of got into a dust storm with some
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Mormons. And so we're hoping that next week, instead of finishing Matthew 24, are doing a little bit more than what we're doing tonight.
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We'll be able to have a debate, whether it be a one on one debate or two on two debate with some
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Mormons. So we pray about that and be fun. Something that we definitely want to do is host debates.
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But but also, you know, if it doesn't pan out, we always got something coming.
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Brayden is not working next week and we will continue Matthew 24. And then we'll kind of look at Matthew 25 to see where we are there.
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And I think I think we decided to go to a book of Revelation afterward. Yeah. And we can always pop around and revelation that doesn't need to necessarily have to happen, but however it needs to go.
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Yeah. Hopefully we can throw in some debates. Yeah, that'd be great. So, you know, it's funny.
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And I did want to just quickly remark on that whole Mormon dust cloud that we were talking about earlier.
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Both Jeff and I view anything that is unbiblical, that teaches a false god, that therefore is an idol and it doesn't deserve any worth.
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We see God destroy idols all the time in the Old Testament. And you see Jesus Christ going into the temple, casting out people that had changed his house into a robber's den.
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And so the reality of these things is that that was a that was a picture that was posted by Haps, another host of Open Air Theology, who wasn't able to be here tonight with us.
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But that that's just the reality of it is idols deserve to be destroyed. And so if you are
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LDS, you watch this and you saw that post, please. If you want to debate us, we would be more than happy to have an open, courteous and kind dialogue with you over that stuff.
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So. All right. So as we get in, I thought maybe it'd be really good to start off with how we're coming at this and interpretive in a way of interpretation.
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So I take a Preterist view of Matthew 24.
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So I would say all Matthew 24 is in our past.
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So the word Preterist, Preter is Latin for past. And so if you are a
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Orthodox Christian, you are a Preterist.
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So there's different ways to view eschatology in terms of the millennial.
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So you have premillennial, you have all millennial, and then you have post millennial.
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If you ho to one of the millenniums, you are Orthodox. You believe that Jesus Christ is coming again in the future.
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If so, if you ho to one of these three Orthodox view, premillennial, all millennial or post millennial, and you're also a
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Preterist, that means that you don't believe that Jesus physically came back in 70
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A .D. You believe that he came back in judgment against Jerusalem, not that he physically came back in a second appearance, a second coming to judge the living and the dead.
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We see that take place in Matthew 25. And so my view is that as a all millennial, post millennial, in between, trying to figure it out right here.
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So I believe that we are in the millennium right now. Right.
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And at the end of the millennial, Jesus is going to come back. But the subject of the matter that I believe we're looking at tonight has already taken place.
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And Brayden will state where he stands on this. Yeah. So I would say so.
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So my my interpretive principle that I usually intend to hold to is idealism. I would call myself a redemptive, historical, modified idealist with big terminology in that way.
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I just because I see something as being fulfilled in the past, it doesn't mean that to me. I think all the text, therefore, that has to be fulfilled in the past.
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I would say that Matthew chapter 24 versus three. Well, versus one, of course, versus one all the way to verse 28 is definitely 70.
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80 is definitely preterist in that way that it is speaking about a localized event. And then
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I see an interesting thing that takes place, which I'm sure we'll talk about it today.
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So I won't turn there and read it. But Luke chapter 21 and the account of the Olivet discourse as well.
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I see an interesting phrase that takes place that seems to be in between verses 28 and 29 in Matthew's account.
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And Matthew doesn't record for us. That leads me to think that verse 29 is taking place throughout the
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Gentile age. Throughout these last 2000 years, we are seeing this idealist verse take place.
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And then in verse 30 to 31, we see the second advent of Christ.
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I would also implore what I would call the knowability in this text versus the unknowability in this text.
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And that's how I find my dividing lines in here. I see there's things that are are are are warnings to the disciples that are known, that are avoidable and are visible and therefore avoidable.
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You can flee to the mountains for those things. And then I see things that are seemingly unknown of that day and hour.
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No one knows. And verse 36. And so that's how I divide this. The scripture up is is what
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Christ is answering to the apostles of questions, the disciples questions in verse three, because they are putting it all into one day.
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And Christ is saying that these things actually play out throughout the course of time. But much of it is fulfilled in 70
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AD. So in that regard, I'm a partial preterist, but not to the extent that Jeff is by any means.
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Yeah. Yeah. So I would say it was a three three and a half year marker. Sixty six
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AD to 70 AD, like midway 70 AD versus a one day.
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I'm not sure if that's what you meant by it. Yeah, but I look forward to that verse in Luke. I don't know which verse you're talking about.
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Yep. I didn't turn to it to to to pre pre study. Yeah, no, no doubt.
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I'll just let it hit me when it hits me. And you know what? If you can change my mind, hallelujah, hallelujah. That's right.
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I know that, you know, I don't claim to be the
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I know it all, but I know it all right. You know more than you think you do.
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Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we are looking at the Olivet Discourse. Right. I mean, all of it.
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This course starts in Matthew chapter 21. We figure we don't have you know, we can't get your attention that, you know, to go through all the way to 21.
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So we just thought we'd start in 24 and we see in verse 24. We're just going to kind of I don't remember exactly how far we got.
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We think we got to verse 14. I'm just going to kind of I'm going to kind of walk through it real quick.
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And if you want to stop me at any time, stop me. OK, would you like me to stop you if I disagree with something or just disagree or if you want to add something in?
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I'm just going to kind of cover to 14 real quick. OK. And just kind of sum it up unless you want to do that.
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I mean, I think that that sounds wonderful. OK, so we have Jesus leaving the temple. That means that he was in the temple.
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He was given the seven woes and and he was going away when his disciples came and pointed out to him the buildings of the temple.
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And he noticed the buildings of the temple and he answered them being the disciples. You see these things.
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Do you not truly? I say to you, the disciples, there will not be. There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be torn down, thrown down.
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And we see that absolutely took place in 70 A .D. And as he was sitting on the
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Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him privately saying, tell us, when will these things be?
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What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? And they're asking him, what will these things be?
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The nearest antecedent would be the destruction of the temple. This is what he was speaking about. And they're asking him the sign of his coming.
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See, this is what tells me that Matthew 24, when it talks about his coming, is not a physical coming because he's physically in their presence and they're asking for his presence.
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The Greek word here is parousia. And so I believe that that they understand that his coming would be this ushering in of the kingdom of what they would have believed to be the kingdom of Judah.
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You know, like we see in the book of Acts, I think it's restoring the kingdom of Judah or restoring the kingdoms to Israel.
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And so they were expecting this coming to be him coming as a conquering king. And so not his physical coming, like he's going to disappear, he's going to go away like they didn't understand that he was going to die, go away and then come back.
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Their understanding was his coming was bringing in his kingdom. And then
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Jesus answered them, you see that no one leads you astray, for many will come saying, I am
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Christ, and they will lead many astray. And we pointed out that there's no really, you know, outside of going to extra biblical sources, we don't see anyone in the
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Bible that's actually professed that they were Christ. But there is definitely people teaching of a different Christ, and there's definitely anti -Christ teachers.
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We see that 1 John 2, 4, and then 2 John 7, 2 John 7 would have been,
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I mean, I can't think of the guy's name for some reason, but he was teaching a false
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Christ. It was kind of early Gnosticism. Sorenthes, yeah, Sorenthes is his name.
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Sorenthes. Yeah. And then verse 6 says, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars.
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So right here would be the birth pain. So so we're going to read about the birth pain. So the birth pains will be wars and rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes.
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So verse 6, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and see that no one see that you are not alarmed for these things must take place.
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But the end is not yet for nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
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But these are but the birth pain. So the birth pains is wars and rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes.
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It says, then they will devour you up. So, excuse me, they will deliver you up to tribulation.
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Now, if you look right here in verse 23, it's speaking again of what takes place in 23.
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And I think also in night 16. Or is it 12? I think it's chapter 16.
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No, it's 10. Yeah. Yeah. In chapter 10, verse 28, it says, do not fear for those who kill the body, but cannot kill the son.
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No. Where am I at? That's a good verse. OK, yeah. Right here. Right here. I found it. Behold, I am sending you out as wolves.
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So this is when Jesus sends them out. First, he said, beware of man, for they will deliver you over to the courts and flog you in the synagogues.
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And you will be dragged before governors and kings. So this is something that Jesus has already warned him about.
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So in Matthew 24, he's reiterating it. We see it in Matthew chapter 23. Also, he's in verse 34 speaking to the scribes and Pharisees.
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He says, I will send you prophets and wise men, scribes, and you will kill them, crucify them. And to some, you will flog and persecute in your own town.
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So what he's telling his disciples here is he's telling them that nation will rise against them.
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So verse 10, and they will deliver you up, speaking to the disciples, to tribulation and put you, the disciples, to death.
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And you, the disciples, will be hated by all nation for his namesake. And then many will fall away.
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And we see this taking place in the book of Hebrews. Many will fall away and betray one another.
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False prophets will arise and lead many astray. We see this in Acts 20, Galatians, Titus 1, dealing with the
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Judaizers. And because of lawlessness will increase the love of many will grow cold again.
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Code, again, the book of Hebrews. You see this being played out. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
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Now, if you're saying that you and I have to endure to the end to be saved, we deny Ephesians 2, verses 8 and 9.
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Right? That makes that this verse is workspace. In order for us to be saved salvifically, we have to endure to the end.
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So this endure to the end, this saved here is not salvifically. It's being saved from the coming judgment that's coming upon Israel.
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Then he says in the gospel of this kingdom must be proclaimed through all the world as a testimony to all nations.
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And then will the end come. So the word world here is oikomene. It means the inhabited earth.
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Jerusalem, I mean, a Rome inhabited land. It was a kingdom over 10 nations.
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And so these 10 nations would have been the inhabited earth. And it also says, and then the end will come.
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What end? Look back at verse 3, the end of the age. And so this is where him and I would disagree.
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So I believe in verse 14 where it talks about then the end will come. It's speaking about the end of the age, which would be what
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I would see as the Jew did the Judaic age ending and ushering in the new covenant age.
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So covenant age ending new covenant age. Of course,
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I believe that there was an overlap of a period of 40 years where the new covenant and the old covenant, the two ages were on the earth together.
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But once Jerusalem fell, only the new covenant age continued. And I think that's where we left off at.
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Yeah, for sure. If you have any disagreement. Well, so I would have a disagreeing on the age.
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And I guess maybe let me ask a quick question on that. So you're saying that you would link the end of the age of or the end of the age that's in verse 3 to the end that's mentioned of in verse 14.
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Is that correct? OK, because it's the nearest antecedent when it speaks about the end.
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Right, right, right, right. I see what you're saying. And then just to just to kind of back up to just real fast in verse 3, when it says the sign of the of your coming, would you say that the
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Jews see that? Verse 3 has a sign of the coming? Oh, yeah. Good question. What would be the sign of your coming?
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Yeah. Yep. Yep. What would be the sign of your coming? Is that being asked by the and this is a genuine question
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I have for you on how you view this. Is that the disciples asking it in a way that they see it as a bad thing that's about to come or a good thing that's about to come?
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I would say a good thing because they're looking for him. Of course, I don't think they're
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I think they're asking a question and he's answering it. But the answer that he's given is not the answer that I was looking for.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but but but but but the answer that he gives them is actually the true answer to their question.
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So they're looking for him to like if you go to Acts chapter one, let me go there real quick.
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Let's see. Yeah. So verse six.
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So when they had come together, they asked him, Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom of God?
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And so and so when they're asking him, when will be the sign of your coming? They're asking him about the restoration of the kingdom of Israel.
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Yeah, yeah. Right. And so but they're not understanding that the restoration of the kingdom of Israel is the establishment of the new covenant.
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I agree with that. Yeah, I agree. You see what I'm saying? I agree. And so I think that that. Go ahead.
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Sorry. No, no. I was going to say, I think that that's where I then will apply some later text here a little bit to that, that the sign of the son of coming of the son of man or the sign of your coming.
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Because I do think that how they're viewing things is that, OK, the temple is going to be destroyed. The end of the world is happening.
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And therefore, the kingdom is going to be established. And they're they're they're wanting their they the the apostles and the disciples are really wanting a high seat in that kingdom.
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Right there. They're looking for it. Oh, yeah. Let's let's get it kind of a thing. They're kind of greedy in this way. Yeah, I would.
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I would just say, and I don't know what your thought is on this. The inverse three, that word end is a different word in the
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Greek than the word and in verse 14. Let me pull it up. Yeah, I want to say that verse 14.
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It's I don't I'm bad with Greek. So forgive me. But Talos or Tolos. There's times
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I'm better with Greek than I am of English. But I can now read King James, man.
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I had to try to read it at a camp here recently doing that Christian camp. I think I'm going to start reading the old king.
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I mean, the new King James. It's probably better. I can't do it, though. But I want to say verse 14 is
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Tolos or Talos. And then in verse three, it's Cylindia or something along those lines. And it would be my understanding that in verse three, that that that word consummation is a traditional language for marriage.
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And then verse 14 is not the traditional language for marriage. And so I would separate those things, in my opinion, on how
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I see that. And I think that the reason that they're asking that question regarding marriage is because of Christ's parable, the marriage feast in chapter 22, which there will be more language implored like this in the sense of marriage tradition later on in this chapter.
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And so I would not apply the consummation of the age or the end of the age to verse 14 quite yet.
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I would apply it later on in this chapter. As far as the winking of the two go.
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Yeah, let me see. So, yeah.
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So in verse 14, I mean, it can be translated uttermost final ending by one's continuing.
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So like when when when you're talking about verse 14, about that being the end of the temple age or the end of the of that sense,
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I agree with you, because I do think that's the end of the temple. And I think that that's fitting for how
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Daniel chapter eight, verse 17 through 19, how when
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Daniel receives a prophecy about a ram and a goat that's about Antiochus the fourth, they it said that this is the end that's taking place.
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And it's talking about a day that Antiochus is going to come in and desecrate the temple set of idols that that's how the
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Jewish mindset was that if something happened to the temple, it's the end. And so I do agree that Matthew chapter 24, verse 14 is absolutely speaking about 7080 temple.
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So the reason why I think the end is two different words. Yeah, it's because of the the where you have the end of the age verse like it actually says the end of the age and age is kind of like the main point of emphasis here.
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Yep. And then down here, the emphasis is on end. Yep. And so that's why
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I think the word the completion of the aeon, which would come to the same meaning of ending as we see in verse 14.
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I would say it's just like this verse is not so much highlighting that the word end as it is, but that in the four verse 14, it's actually not highlighting aeon, but it's highlighting the end that's coming, which would have been the aeon.
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So I see what you're saying on that. I disagree on that. Right. And the thinking on that is that because the first question that the apostles asked,
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I think, is still being answered by Jesus. Well, I think there's three questions, but one answer.
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Yes. I think that there's three, three questions that they all think is one answer.
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But Christ is giving them three answers. That's what I think. So no matter how hard I kick on me, just like it's going to be like a meal.
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And that's how the typical idealist. But can you show me another?
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I mean, because you cannot just introduce something in a story and it not have an end to seed it.
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Absolutely. The nearest end to seed it when it's speaking of the end would have to be the verse 13 and also verse and then verse three, which verse 13 is, again, in my opinion, is still speaking of the same man.
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Let's see what it has. I think verse 13 and 14 is definitely speaking of the same end.
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And I think that that is definitely speaking of the temple being destroyed. I do think, though, that that the disciples being.
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But again, I showed you in Hebrews chapter nine. Yeah. That the temple was a symbol for that age.
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Absolutely. Yeah. And that temple fell. It was the end of that age. Right. And so where I'm going with that, though, is that I do see a two age model that takes place in the
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New Testament. And that being said, there are times there are are places like First Corinthians chapter 10, where the language of all the times we're pointing to this time that that this this period of this thing happening is coming to an end.
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This this age is now ending for the temple. Right. There is that language. That's undeniable. But I think that in other areas,
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Matthew chapter 12, Matthew chapter 13, I believe it is.
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There are several occasions that the language of this end or this age and that age, it uses that over and over and over again.
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And so when I when I see the consummation, the completion, the end of the age,
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I think that the nearest antecedent for that kind of language they're using is two chapters prior in the marriage feast.
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I think that that's that that's how that's why I think that the apostles or the disciples are asking this genuine question is because of what
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Christ just told the Pharisees. So you think the the age to come is the consummation of a.
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I think that that is the eternal state. Yeah. OK, so what do you do with Matthew 12, 32?
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Yeah. Whoever speaks against whoever speaks a word against the son of man will be forgiven.
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But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come.
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Yeah. So in the consummated age. Yeah. So so somebody if somebody blasphemes the
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Holy Spirit today, there is no forgiveness for them. And in fact, in Mark, that's not how it's worded.
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Yeah. So Mark's Mark's account words it that way. It says that it's the eternal sin. So so I think
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Mark keys this age and the age to come as an eternal thing that that that the this age and the age to come surmises.
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So you want to say that this is a sin that people can commit in the eternal state? No, no, no, absolutely not.
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I'm saying it's something that they can only commit today. And if they do, there's no forgiveness for it. You heard it.
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You heard it from yourself. Yes, I in the in the age to come, which
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I'm saying is the eternal state there. There is no sin at that point. We're all glorified. So of course, like I would agree with you there.
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I just think that your idea of the age that like, like, like, you know,
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I don't think anyone has ever read that, you know, understood it that way without someone.
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And I just did in a suit and wearing glasses. No, I do.
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I do think that that that because I think that they're asking all these kind of things based off of what was just talked about.
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Right. So. So, Jesus, the very first thing, when will these things take place? Christ has said to the
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Jewish people, your house is being left to you desolate. And then he says that there's not going to be a stone left upon another.
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Right. I think that that is directly asking, when is this going to happen? And then and they say, and the sign of your coming.
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I do think that that's them talking about the the kingdom of God, which Christ is pressed very hardly through the means of parables in this in the previous text, whether it is the parable of the vineyard or the parable of the father and the two sons, or if it's the fig tree or whatever the example is.
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He's been pressing that issue of the kingdom very, very vigorously. And so I think that that's their reasoning for asking that kind of a question, which you and I would agree with saying that the kingdom is now, but not yet kind of in a sense that that that Christ set up his kingdom.
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It's still unfolding. Right. It's still going about. Yeah, absolutely. And and so I think that that that's question two.
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So I wouldn't say that the, you know, the full weight of the kingdom is on earth because the kingdom is established.
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Jesus is not on earth on the throne. He is on the throne of David in heaven at the right hand of the father.
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I agree. But but his but his kingdom on earth would be the visible representation is not four walls.
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And you can say, look, there it is. And knock on the door and enter. There's no one can see it or enter unless they're born again.
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The entrance into the kingdom is to be born again. And then you're born into the kingdom, which is the church.
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And so the church, I would say, is the physical manifestation of this kingdom. And that's why
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I lost. People don't understand us because they can't see what we're a part of. You can't see it unless you're in it.
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You got to be born in it. They have not been born again. They have not been born again.
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So and so I agree that there's this already not yet aspect of the kingdom and we're waiting.
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You know, but yes, but still that the new covenant age, the kingdom, the bride of Christ is on earth.
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You know, right now we mourn for, you know, longing to be with our bridegroom.
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Which will come. Absolutely. Amen to that. Absolutely. Well, that's the consummation of the age.
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I mean, I mean, I don't believe that this and I don't believe that this age is ever going to end.
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But I believe that the age has already started. I don't believe that there's some future age that we're looking for.
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We're already in this, the consummation. We're already in the age that's going to be consummated. So you say that we're in the age to come right now.
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Is that correct? Yes, but the age to come is not fully consummated. And once we get into Revelation chapter 21, it'll really show roots.
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That's going to be years down the road, Jeff. Well, you know, for the long run, maybe.
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That's right. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Let's continue on.
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Nope. You're good. I was going to ask another question. Let's keep on going. I mean, if you want to ask one, that's fine. But, you know. Well, I was just going to ask.
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So what's your… because in that thinking, what's the… because it was just a couple of verses before when
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Christ is talked to about the Sadducees. Sadducees.
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Sadducees. Sadducees. They're sad, you see. Sad, you see. About who is this woman going to be married to in the kingdom?
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And God, essentially what it says, that in this age that people are given in marriage, but in the age to come, they are not, essentially.
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So in that thinking… That would be the part that's not yet. Okay. Yeah, because we're still physical bodies.
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We're on an earth of two kingdoms. There's still the kingdom of God, and there's the kingdom of the world that's being put under his feet.
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Right? You agree with that, correct? Mm -hmm. So would you hope to have two -kingdom theology?
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No. Well, we got a lot to do, don't we? Define two -kingdom theology, then, for me, then.
32:48
Well, you have… Well, man, that's another show, man. Let's put a pin in that, because…
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Okay, because I haven't studied enough to say that I believe in it or I don't believe in it, to be honest with you.
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Well, most postmills don't believe in it, but I think that's what… One of the arguments from it really got me moving away from postmill, because we are in a…
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Again, man, if I get on it, man, we probably won't get past this before. I sidetracked.
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I'm sorry. I mean, you got the king… Like, just for instance, Romans 13.
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Okay. Right? You see the… There's certain things delegated to the church and certain things delegated to governing authorities.
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Yep. And so that's another kingdom, and that's being put under… I believe that that's going to eventually be put under the feet of Christ.
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So the kingdom of man versus the kingdom of God, but there's a lot that goes into it.
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Okay, I see. I was thinking something completely different. Okay, yeah, let's keep on going. Matthew 24. We got to come back to that someday.
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Yeah, well, I'm definitely open for it. I just don't think we'll have time tonight. No, I love it. So verse 15.
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And as, alas, for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days, pray that your
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Sabbath will not be… I mean, pray that your flight will not be in Sabbath. Let's stop there. Maybe I should have stopped earlier.
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So what is the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet?
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And has this happened, in your opinion? Yes, it has.
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When did it happen? 66 to 73 AD, specifically 70 AD. But that is the outpouring of the house being left desolate that Christ has just mentioned in verse 38 of 23.
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That, behold, your house is being left to you desolate. Which then after that,
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Christ, as far as bookends go, Christ enters into the city having the Hallel psalm from 118 sung to him by the people.
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And then he exits the city in verse 39 by telling them more of the
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Hallel psalm, which is 118. I think this verse is actually 35 verses prior to that famous Hosanna verse, we beseech thee,
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O Lord, save us. But verse 39 says, for I say to you from now on, you shall not see me until you say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the
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Lord. Once again, that comes from the same text that they were just singing to him, which is pretty powerful.
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But Christ says, behold, your house is being left to you desolate. And then he says, therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel, the prophet, standing in the holy place.
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Once again, we see all these things playing out now. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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And it goes through exactly what you just read, verse 15 and on, which is referenced to Daniel chapter 9, verses 26 through 27.
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So. So a desolation. So if you look in Daniel, chapter nine, verse one, it says in the year of Darius, the son of Esariah, by the descent of Mead, who was made king over the realm of the
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Chaldeans in the first year of his reign. I, Daniel, perceived in the book a number of years that according to the word of the
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Lord to Jeremiah, the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolation of Jerusalem, namely 70 years.
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And if you save time, look over at verses 17 and 18.
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Now, therefore, oh, God, listen to my prayer to the prayer of your servant and to his plea for mercy and for your own sake.
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Oh, Lord, let your make your face shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate.
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Oh, my God, clean your ear in here. Open your eyes and see our desolation in the city.
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It is called by your name for we do not present our pleas before you because of your righteousness, but because of your mercy.
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And so this kind of gives. And then when you look in the gospel, Luke is kind of telling the same thing that that that Matthew is.
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But it adds something. Verse 20 of chapter 21. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is near.
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So desolation, according to Daniel, is when Jerusalem is laid bare.
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It's when it's been taken captive. All right. So the question is,
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OK, so we know that a definition for desolation, when it's speaking of in Jerusalem, it's whenever they're, you know, in Daniel.
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It's when Babylon removed Jerusalem and brought them into captivity.
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All right. And then and then Luke 21, we see it's when the
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Roman armies are surrounding Jerusalem. They're about to make the land desolate.
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They're about to remove the people. So the question is, is what is the abomination? Why did this take place?
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And so I would say that Rome went in there because of the revolt, the
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Jewish revolt. Like you can look in history. That's why Rome went in because of the
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Jewish revolt. They went in to try to calm down what was taking place and ended up destroying everyone and burning everything to the ground.
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But I believe that God sent them in there for a different reason.
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And it's because the abomination, which I would see, is the continuing sacrifice after Jesus was sacrificed.
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Daniel 9 makes it clear that Jesus came to put an end to sin. So when you look at the Yom Kippur, Yom Kippur, the
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Day of Atonement, they would sacrifice a goat and then they would have an escaped goat that they would pray their sins upon.
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Jesus came as the final atonement. He came to put an end to sin.
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That holiday was called an end to sin. So when Jesus came, he was the final sacrifice.
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And so every time afterwards, when they would go back and sacrifice, they were what I believe
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Hebrews teaches. They were crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm. And there was not trusting in the sacrifice of Christ.
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So I believe that God sent Rome because they continued to sacrifice.
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But Rome went because of the revolt. So that's how
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I would see that. Feel free to bring in whatever.
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I agree that I do think that it was very, very sinful for the place that God's glory is left for them to continue on sacrificing in that place, thinking that that was what
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God wanted. Especially thinking that they were still God's people in that way. The ethnic
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Israel. I would put a little bit more emphasis on the abomination of being the rejection of the
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Christ, though, I think. I still think it is an abomination what they kept on doing, especially looking at other verses in Daniel about about things.
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Standing where it doesn't. When you see the abomination of desolation, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel, the prophet standing in the holy place.
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So how does that represent them denying Jesus as the Christ? Now, I know that they whenever they covenantally deny that they are anti Christ.
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So first, John 18 is about for sure. So going to we'd have to go to Daniel 9, 7, 27.
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Let me go there real quick. So Daniel, what?
41:52
You know, 927. Because I think that this I think that that that that quote is being directly quoted from the set.
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Yes, it is. I believe it is right. So verse 27, and he will make a firm covenant with the week for one for the many for one week.
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But in the middle of the week, he'll put a stop to sacrifice and great offering. So so in my thinking of this, in my thinking of this, right, the firm covenant that is made with many is
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Christ, the new covenant. Yeah. And that says in the middle of the week, he'll put a stop to sacrifice, meaning that that I think in that middle, that that firm covenant that's made in the middle of the week is the ending of that sacrifice.
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And then I would say that that's his crucifixion. Yes, I agree. Yes, that's what I'm saying. This is him putting an end to sin.
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Yes, I'm being rejected. So he says, and he the he there is the
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Messiah, Jesus. Absolutely. And I think that then when it says, and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate even to complete destruction.
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I think that the reason that's being quoted over here in verse 15, the wing of abomination means that if if they're
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OK, this is going to be funky using this kind of analogy. But let's do this.
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So the book, the main part of the book is right here in the center. Right. But its wings are are over there.
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Right. So I think that the wing is that it was on the wing of the crucifixion of the
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Christ, the abomination that the Pharisees did on that wing is is the destruction of the temple.
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It was shortly after it was because of that it flopped and happened. That that makes sense.
43:40
That's kind of how I see this. I could be wrong. Yeah. So coming at it from what I've been teaching in Hebrews.
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Yeah. Jesus being our high priest after the order of Melchizedek, not only was he the high priest, he was the sacrifice.
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And so we see him in his mediation. He he he he lived the life we could not live.
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And as a substitute and took upon himself the punishment that we deserve as a substitute.
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This, you know, him being the spotless lamb sacrificed for our sins.
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And then after this takes place again. So the book of Hebrews is about them.
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It's like it kind of gives that, you know, like it like the writer, which
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I believe is Paul is is kind of saying that they're doing the same thing that the
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Israel in the wilderness did. Instead of living in the presence and trusting
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God, they're wanting to go back to Egypt. But but the people, you know, the old covenant were wanting to go back to Egypt.
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And then the people in Hebrews are wanting to go back to the temple. Right. Because they were still sacrificing.
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So even though Jesus is the high priest after the order of Melchizedek, I would say right here.
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And it says. And on the wing of and on the wing of abomination shall come one.
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This will be the high priest at the time making the sacrifice, continuing to make the sacrifice after because it's right here.
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It's I mean, like if you just go back to verse twenty four, it's a 70 weeks or declare the creed, excuse me, about your people.
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So he's speaking to Daniel. Your people would be the Jews and your holy city would be Jerusalem to finish transgression right here.
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Yom Kippur to put an end to sin, to atone for iniquity, to bring about everlasting righteousness, to sell both vision and profit and to anoint a most holy place.
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All this was done during the life of Jesus. Amen to that. One hundred percent. So so so you're saying that the one that made desolate in twenty seven of Daniel nine is a high priest, not a high priest continuing to sacrifice.
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So every high priest after Christ is like this is what it's speaking of.
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They continue to sacrifice. OK, cool. I have never thought of it like that. And I love it. Sounds good.
46:09
Yeah, sounds good. So, yeah, well, I'm here for you, brother. I love it.
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I've often heard of it. People describe that as the one that makes desolate is going to be the Caesar that came about.
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You see, my only problem is my only problem is, is that the decree is not against Rome.
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Like Jesus in Rome never really had any kind of, you know, like Rome never came after Jesus until they that they made it political until the.
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You see what I'm saying? Like Jesus's condemnation was on the religious Jews.
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So so you're saying that the one that makes it desolate, it's it's the one that kept on sacrificing cause the desolation of the
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Jewish revolt and the eventual fall of the temple. Yeah, which which the last high priest
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I would I would designate as the man of sin, which would have been Phineas. Ben Samuel, who was not a part of the five families, but was made high priest by the revolt, the zealots.
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And so then that's where you would see the man of sin. That's that's. Yeah. Yeah. So I was because he was in the temple. Yeah, he was in when it fell.
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Yeah, that's that's, you know, that's that's really showing my paternalism right there. It's starting to show a little bit.
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I mean, I am. I mean, I think it's biblical. So all right. So well, but we both agree that this has already happened.
47:41
No matter if we agree with the one that it's already happened. Yeah, it's not like we have to agree on each one of the details of this.
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But yes, I preterist. Right. This this is taking place. Yeah. So it says, let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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So this is something that can be escaped on foot. If the only way to get away from it is to flee to the mountains and Israel.
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So in order if it happens tomorrow. Sorry about that. I got people next door. If it happens tomorrow, you and I have to get on a plane and fly to Israel so we can escape to the mountains.
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Yes, we do. I mean, we're going to take this literal, right? If this is speaking about the second coming, apparently there are people that can that can recognize it coming and prepare and avoid judgment based off of what they do.
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This is this is where I would just make mention of that. This is where a principle of interpretation
48:37
I bring to Matthew chapter 24 is the knowability versus the unknowability. And what
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I see that's taking place, especially here in verse 16 and beyond and around that, that versus is the knowability.
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And because there's knowability, there's avoidability. It's something that somebody can recognize.
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They can recognize the city being surrounded. They can escape it. This cannot be the second coming because we know that there are none that can escape the judgment of God.
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But this is something that if somebody was to listen to, they could escape wrath being poured out upon the
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Jewish nation in 70 AD. That that's that's where I lean heavily on on that knowability versus the unknowability that I'm sure we'll we'll talk about later on here and here in the chapter.
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But that that that to me is an evidence of the knowability of these things. Yeah, so if we go on verse 17, let no one look at the one who is in his housetop, not go down and take what is in his house.
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I mean, of course, we all hang out on our roofs these days. Christian's got to be building the roof.
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I was a roofer for 25 years. Verse 18, let no let the one who is in the field not turn back to get his coat.
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And the last for women who are pregnant and nursing in those days. Listen to this one.
50:08
Verse 20. Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. Well, we don't have sabbatory laws these days.
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I mean, at the time that this was being written, you had, you know, the
50:23
Sabbath day's journey. You couldn't do anything on the Sabbath. So if this was coming and it was a
50:30
Sabbath, you couldn't run. You know, you could get stoned. You'd be violating the law of Moses.
50:36
You know, this is not something that we're we you and I have to deal with. But you tell me you run around on the
50:45
Sabbath. Well, I'm under the belief that we don't know when the
50:55
Sabbath is because you have the Jerusalem, you know, the calendar that the
51:02
Jews follow. And then you have the Gorgorical calendar, which is more days in the Gorgorical calendar.
51:07
So our our days don't line up quite right. Right. And it's so amazing. Yeah. So in their
51:14
Sabbath, which I don't even think they truly know, really, to be honest with you, is different than our
51:19
Sabbath. And then if you go by scripture, it's it's evening first. Then morning was the first day.
51:25
And if it's Sunday, then Sunday evening is the first day till Monday evening. So that would make Saturday evening to Sunday evening the
51:32
Sabbath. I'm fine with that. But yeah, there you go.
51:38
But you know, I mean, I don't think that anyone actually knows the correct day.
51:45
And so I'm I'm happily meeting with my congregation on the Lord's Day, a day that we all have all from work to me and worship
51:54
God together. I'm just going to say it's Wednesday. I'm just going to throw everybody in a tizzle. Do you want to read any of this?
52:03
We're on verse 21. Sure, I can pick up from here. Just interrupt me if you want to make mention of something.
52:13
For then there will be a great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor shall ever be.
52:23
And unless those. Yeah, this one is an important one. Yeah. Did you have people saying, see, the tribulation is going to be worse than anyone has ever seen.
52:35
And if it took place in 70 A .D. Well, that's not the worst thing that's ever happened. Just look at the
52:41
Holocaust. More Jews died in the Holocaust than they did in 70 A .D. Right.
52:46
So how would you answer that? I would say that the way that I would answer this is that I do think that what took place there was more abominational, more evil, especially in the sight of this is the promised land.
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This is the temple. This is God's people. And they are continually doing evil things after rejecting the
53:12
Messiah. And so the weight of the context of what's going on here, I think, makes it worse in that sense.
53:19
I think that the language that's expressed by Christ during the seven woes during the especially in the parable of the landowner, where even the even the
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Jews, I love it. The Jews even condemned themselves unknowingly. The parable of the landowner, it says in verse 40, it says, therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to these to those vine growers, which these are the vine growers that just killed the son?
53:51
It says they said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and will rent out the vineyard to another vine grows who will pay him proceeds at the proper season.
54:06
When I read verse 21, I see it's the wretched end of the wretches that the
54:13
Jews even just call themselves unknowingly. And so I think that the weight of what's going on in there is the reason that it's using that harsh language that any time that we see terribleness coming upon the world.
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Yes, it can be and it is forms of judgment from God, but it is not in the same way that this was a complete rejection of the son being sent to the vine growers.
54:35
That that's my understanding of this text. Yeah, that's a that's definitely a good interpretation. I would say that this is just just to stay on this, you know, the same idea that I've been on that this is covenantal, that this is speaking about the ending of one covenant and the beginning of another one, the beginning end of the old covenant, the beginning of the new covenant also.
54:59
But I would say that that's speaking of ages also. And so and but I would also say this language is nothing new.
55:06
I mean, because if you look at Ezekiel chapter five, verse nine, he says, and because of all of your abominations, again, this is, you know, the prophet
55:18
Ezekiel writing. This is speaking about Jerusalem because of all your abominations,
55:25
I will do with you what I've never yet done and the like of which
55:31
I will never do again. So this just means that this is going to be really, really, really bad. Yeah.
55:38
Right. And there's also and I don't I don't want to have the patience right now to go through and make the argument that Ezekiel, you know, like he's speaking of a time whenever, you know, they were going into captivity in captivity.
55:55
But also, I think some things here are pointing to a future captivity. Which we don't have time to go through the book of Ezekiel.
56:06
Just just 30 more minutes. Yeah, yeah, I know. Right. And so I believe this is old covenant language.
56:13
I believe that the the wording here is nothing different than we see how we express the
56:18
Lord expresses himself throughout the whole Bible. Yeah.
56:25
And so I believe the reason why it's the most terrible thing that's ever happened is because never again will
56:33
God remove the covenant and add a new covenant. Right. There's not going to be a new, newer, newer covenant than what we're in now.
56:41
So he's not going to end this covenant and begin a newer covenant. So that's where my problem would be with the with the age.
56:47
He's not going to end this age and begin another age. Mm hmm. But I would say that the new age,
56:55
I mean, I don't want to say new age. It sounds bad. The age to come. The new covenant and the age to come.
57:03
The new covenant and the kingdom of God are synonymous in a way, which I mean, they're separate, but they all fit together.
57:10
They're all a part of this. The same outline. Cool. I'll keep on reading.
57:17
It says, unless those days have been cut short, no life would have been saved for the sake of the elect.
57:23
Those days shall be cut short. You want to make any mention? I guess I could talk a little bit on this verse on how
57:29
I understand it, because I think we might differ on how we understand. Go ahead. And if you want me to go first, it's fine. Yeah, I'll just I'll just get out my word real fast.
57:37
You disagree with me along the way. If you do, my thinking on this text is that the wrath of God that is being kindled against the
57:49
Jewish nation for the crazy amount of sin that they are committing in such blasphemous and terrible ways, such as killing
57:58
Jesus, such as continuing on with the priest or the priestly sacrifices.
58:03
Just like with continuing on with walking in the promised land, thinking they were
58:09
God's people. I think that this this the wrath of God is like the foaming at the mouth anger that that if you had to apply analogy, that's building up to 70, 80.
58:21
And I think if if that wrath of God would have been continually poured out,
58:29
I think that there would be no life on Earth in its fullness.
58:35
That's how serious the sin of the Jews are, in my opinion. And so and I think that we see that from from from the seven woes.
58:42
I think that we see that from from the their response to the parable of the landowners. And so what
58:48
I am getting from this is that the 70, 80, the reason that we call it history and we look back to it is because that day was cut short for God's wrath being poured out.
58:57
And it is because of that elect today are still being saved. And so the way that I take this verse is that it is for the reason of that being cut short is for the proclamation of the continuing of the gospel until all the sheep are meant to be saved is how
59:15
I understand this. Yeah, I think, you know, like it also like we can't remove it from the verse that we was just previously talking about.
59:23
And which I should have mentioned, like if you go back to 23, I read this earlier, but but Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees saying that he will send them.
59:33
He said, I will send you scribes and Pharisees, prophet wise men, scribes, and some of them you will kill and crucify.
59:40
And some you will flog in the synagogues and persecute from town to town. Right here, verse 35. So that up so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the on earth from the blood of righteous
59:54
Abel, the blood of Zachariah, the son of Barakaya, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
01:00:02
I truly I say to you, scribes and Pharisees, all these things will come upon this generation, this generation, the near demonstrative that it's that all these things are going to happen to this people.
01:00:16
And so and then we also see it happening in a short, like this wrath happening in a short span of time, 66
01:00:26
AD to 70 AD, mid 70 AD. So it's been a three and a half year period.
01:00:33
If this kind of wrath was to be continually poured out, there would be no survivors. Okay, so you would agree with how
01:00:41
I explain that to a certain degree? Yes. All male high five, brother.
01:00:47
An all male hug. Yeah, all male hug from above. I mean, we're really close, you know?
01:00:56
We are. We are. That just makes me happy. I, to be honest with you, Jeff, I thought you were going to say,
01:01:03
I thought you were going to say that the elect was only speaking about the Jews that were able to avoid the tribulation and the fleet of the mountains, which, if that was your take on it,
01:01:12
I'd be okay with that. But that's where I thought you were going to go with that. Well, if God continued to pour out his wrath,
01:01:18
I mean, after the Jews have died, then the wrath would have fell upon all other men.
01:01:24
All the world. Yeah. Okay, sweet. I'm super happy right now,
01:01:30
Jeff. I mean, it only took three and a half years to, you know, do it and be done. Right.
01:01:36
But I think that this is a testament to why verse 21, though, is as harsh of language as that it is, is that what happened in 70
01:01:44
AD was a true judgment of God that was immense.
01:01:51
That was that was like I expressed earlier, it was the foaming of the mouth, like how a dog is is ready to bite somebody.
01:02:02
It's not same way we see God's anger being an all consuming fire.
01:02:07
That day was cut short, but he was an all consuming fire in this text. Right. He was bringing judgment down on people.
01:02:16
So, yeah. You want me to keep on reading? Yeah, I'm fine with that. I don't know how much time you have, but I'm fine.
01:02:22
I could probably go for another 15 minutes if that's OK with you. Maybe we can get to verse 28. We'll stop right before the good stuff, because that's where I think we're going to we're going to start splitting up on things a little bit more.
01:02:33
So verse 23 says, then, if anyone says to you, behold, here is the
01:02:39
Christ or there he is, do not believe him for false Christ and false prophets will rise and will show great signs and wonders as to so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
01:02:56
You got anything on that verse 24 or anything? Well, I think that it's just reiterating some things that it's already covered.
01:03:04
You know, false Christ, people preaching a false Christ, false prophets, definitely the Judaizers. I mean, they were leading
01:03:16
Christians, Christians. I mean, I mean, we definitely see them leading Christians astray, which he's speaking to disciples.
01:03:23
So right here is not necessarily like it's not necessarily speaking a judgment that's coming upon Jerusalem, but it's a warning to those that follow him.
01:03:32
And so we see that the Judaizers were coming to church plants like we read about in Titus and especially.
01:03:42
Yeah. And, you know, the Book of Acts, we see it taking place in Galatians that the
01:03:48
Judaizers were false prophets. They were leading people astray. They were adding to the gospel of grace. And those that received it were falling from the they were falling from the gospel of grace, meaning they were falling from the gospel of the teaching of grace that you're saved by grace through faith.
01:04:04
Yeah. And that they were elect. Right. They were believers and they were trying. And Paul comes, preaches the gospel, brings them back.
01:04:13
So I definitely see this playing out in Scripture. Absolutely.
01:04:18
Absolutely. I would just also note again that my principle of the knowability versus non knowability, it's
01:04:27
I still see it being we can tell somebody is a false Christ. We can tell somebody is a false prophet.
01:04:32
We can we can see these things that are taking place. And by we,
01:04:38
I mean, I'm not saying that I'm placing myself in the shoes of those that went through the 70 AD period. I'm saying those people back then could see those things taking place and they could tell that the time was drawing near for the destruction of the temple.
01:04:51
Yeah. I mean, but we see these things taking place like these things. We see them taking place today. Absolutely.
01:04:57
I mean, there's just not going to be a temple. They destroy anybody. Correct. God's Bible.
01:05:04
Cool. Yeah. Like that. You know, like those things haven't changed. It's kind of like wars and rumors of wars and famines and earthquakes.
01:05:12
But that's something that's always been. This is something we're always going to see, too, until the Lord comes back.
01:05:19
Absolutely. So I'll just keep on reading. It says, Behold, I have told you in advance.
01:05:26
If therefore they say to you, behold, he is in the wilderness. Do not go forth. Or behold, he is in the inner rooms.
01:05:33
Do not believe them. For just as lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the
01:05:39
Son of Man be. Whoever the corpse is there, the vultures will gather. What's your thinking on that?
01:05:52
Let's hear it. Verse 27. Specifically, verse 27. Well, I mean, verse 27.
01:05:58
I don't think it really. You know, I think it's introducing something that we're going to see take place in 29, 30 and 31.
01:06:07
And so I don't think there's enough information to go on. I mean, definitely.
01:06:16
Speaking of the coming of the Son of Man, and I think it gets deeper into it. But the coming of the
01:06:22
Son of Man is something that they're going to see. I mean, like if so, if we just want to look at it like that again, they're talking about the
01:06:30
Parisia. They're asking him to see his presence. You know, when is your presence coming?
01:06:36
It's like, well, my presence is here. I mean, I'm already in your presence. And they're speaking about something.
01:06:45
And then Jesus answers them in a way that. That they don't really understand.
01:06:52
But so if you look in Matthew, chapter 10. Yes. Chapter 10, verse 23.
01:07:05
Jesus says again, he sent them out. He has told them that they're going to be there's going to become a time when they're persecuted.
01:07:12
And then he says he tells his disciples when they persecute you, the disciples.
01:07:18
I mean, just go back to verse five. He sends out that he sends out to his 12 apostles.
01:07:25
When so, verse 23, when they persecute you in one town, flee to the next.
01:07:31
For truly, I say to you, you disciples, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the
01:07:39
Son of Man comes. And so he's speaking about his presence, speaking about this establishment that that's going on.
01:07:48
And then let's say verse chapter 16.
01:07:57
Well, hold on. I hate when
01:08:06
I'm having to go through a new Bibles. So sticky. It's got the new
01:08:11
Bible smell still. Yeah. So verse 16, 27 and 28 for the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his father.
01:08:22
And then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you.
01:08:30
Speaking to his disciples, there will be some standing here who would have not taste death until they see the
01:08:37
Son of Man coming in his kingdom. And so in verse 27, for as lightning comes from the east and shines in the west, so will be the coming of the
01:08:47
Son of Man. So right here, I think Jesus is trying to get their gaze away from him being in his physical body, bringing in the kingdom.
01:08:58
Yeah, that's very fair. But it's still it's not.
01:09:06
Like he elaborates on it more as we get into the text. For sure. So a question for you, though, would you would you put 27 as words of judgment that take place in 70
01:09:18
AD? Or would you put this as a timeless piece of history as far as the entire interadvental period of Christ's kingdom growing?
01:09:29
How would you? I would put this on him coming in judgment.
01:09:35
Judgment. OK. In judgment. Yeah. And I know, but it'll get hashed out more as we will.
01:09:41
I'm sure we'll get through the verse 31, like verse 28, where it talks about where the corpses, where the corpses is there.
01:09:49
The vultures would gather. And the word for vulture here most likely is trans. The better translation would be eagles.
01:09:57
So the United States. No dispensationalism. And the
01:10:03
Roman army, they were they were known as eagles. Like they had it. Yeah. I love it.
01:10:11
I think we're going to we're going to find a split, though, here, probably for next podcast that we get on this.
01:10:20
I do think, though, that verse 27, I agree. I think that this is talking about judgment. I think that this is talking specifically about 70
01:10:27
AD. I don't think that this if it's vultures or there's eagles, regardless, it can't be the second coming because we know that those that are resurrected and are goats or wolves that are not elect, their body is not on earth being able to fill the bellies of birds.
01:10:45
That's not how the second coming is. It's that they are part of the second death and and which is the lake of fire.
01:10:52
That's where they're being thrown into. And so this coming of the son of man is that of death that's filling the bellies of something.
01:11:02
Right. Whether it's the last of the Roman warriors, whether it's the vultures of the air.
01:11:07
However, we're taking this. I, I do think that this is speaking of of 70 AD.
01:11:13
I do. I do agree with that for sure. Yeah. So, yeah, I do. I am going to have a different view when it comes to verse verse 30.
01:11:22
I am going to I'm going to break those things up a little bit, but stay tuned for two weeks or no, actually won't be two weeks.
01:11:28
It'll probably be four weeks from now before we get back into it. Yeah. So next week will be your last week. You'll have to go to work the following two weeks.
01:11:35
Yes. And so probably then I'll have back on here. I'm still not sure what happens is coming back.
01:11:43
Yeah, but I'll have on here. Austin Hammers, I did, we did last week and we'll begin
01:11:51
Romans two. And then if, you know, just depending on what takes place of the
01:11:58
Mormons, you know. Yeah. We will have an episode. Hopefully it's a
01:12:06
Mormon one. If it's not, we'll continue on Matthew 24. Yeah. So hopefully next week we'll have a
01:12:13
Mormon debate. But if not, we'll be back in Matthew 24. I'm going to study for both.
01:12:19
Love it. You're going to have your hands full then. The nice, I don't have to study about the
01:12:25
Mormon thing. That's kind of like ingrained in my mind. I mean, like I, like I, I think
01:12:31
I have a good, you know, understanding.
01:12:36
And I think that I do very well with them. I'm always challenging them, but it'd be nice to have you in my back pocket sometimes.
01:12:44
You know what I'm saying? I get that. I get that. You just got that Mormon look about you.
01:12:49
Yeah. You got that Mormon look about you. It was pretty funny. I was telling the Christian camp
01:12:55
I was up teaching. I was, I was preaching for them. And so I did four lessons. So I ended up doing like a total of like five and a half hours of teaching.
01:13:02
It was a lot longer than I was expecting. But anyway, the first lesson that we did was my testimony.
01:13:09
And in there I was like, yeah, so you think of you guys have met Mormons and everybody's like, yeah, I met
01:13:14
Mormons. And I was like, okay, think of the, the, the most Mormon -y Mormon that you could ever think of.
01:13:20
And that was me. And they think that that's funny. And I'm like, I was the, I'm trying to think of an analogy. I was like, I was the
01:13:26
Gerber baby of the Mormon church. And so I was the Gerber baby up at this
01:13:31
Christian camp. I wish you had pictures of you walking around in the white shirt and tucked in.
01:13:39
I'm sure I could dig one up. I appreciate it. So. Well, all right, everyone.
01:13:48
Thanks for everyone who is able to tune in. Hopefully this video will get more views.
01:13:55
I think that's important. Some important stuff talked about here. Most importantly, you get to see two
01:14:02
Christian men who love each other, who agree and disagree on parts and showing a way that this can be done.
01:14:11
Right. He's not a heretic. I'm not a heretic. Well, that's probably questionable, but we're coming at this.
01:14:21
We're coming at this and we're just, you know, we're just opening the Bible and we're just doing our best to explain it from our position.
01:14:30
And that's how it should be done. Right. Especially in eschatology. Eschatology should be fun.
01:14:38
If you're getting hot about it on eschatology with someone, man, you need to sit down and repent.
01:14:44
Like, that's just not how it is. There's a lot of things that, you know, there's so much to understand and we don't understand a little bit of it.
01:14:54
And so we need to be gracious to one another and walk it out together in scripture and make fun of each other.
01:15:02
Yeah, that's fine. But do it lovingly. That's fine. Yeah. That needs to be a T -shirt. Eschatology should be fun.
01:15:08
It should be. I mean, people be upset, especially dispensationals, man.
01:15:14
They will. Dude. They hang you on a stake. There are some Christians that would be less upset about somebody denying the deity of Christ and more upset with you saying that you believed in covenantal theology.
01:15:26
It's wild. It's wild. Wild. So I have a. That's been my experience anyway.
01:15:32
Yeah. The last time that I went open air preaching experiences. So I went open air preaching last last
01:15:38
Saturday. I'm going to do something this Saturday as well. We'll try to do something every Saturday. Well, a member of our church, his father goes to a
01:15:47
Baptist church in this area. And so his father has been coming to our Sunday school class and because his church doesn't have
01:15:55
Sunday school class. And he's also been coming to our men's group and we're hanging out, we're having theology conversations or whatever.
01:16:02
And so he brought his pastor. So him and his pastor go witnessing the Saturdays that I do open air preaching.
01:16:08
And they stopped. Right. And immediately his pastor started talking about the two witnesses and says,
01:16:16
I'll bet they're going to be some great street preachers. And I was like, yeah, they were. We read about him in the book of Acts.
01:16:23
And he was like, you know, we got into a little bit of trouble. A little bit of covenant theology. But I got into, you know,
01:16:28
Matthew 24 came up and he kept asking me questions. And so as I was answering a question, he would ask another question.
01:16:35
And as I was trying to answer that question, he would ask it like he wouldn't let me fully get an answer out because I would say something that would make him think of something else.
01:16:44
And so I said, hey, how about this? Because it was hot. So how about we meet up and we'll open the
01:16:50
Bible and we'll do one question at a time, one verse at a time, one question at a time. And we'll go through all of Matthew 24 and we'll figure this out.
01:16:58
And so he agreed. And so the guy that goes to that's a member of our church, actually, because we don't have a
01:17:04
Sunday night service, he goes there with his dad. And so he's going to line it up to where me and him are meeting at his house.
01:17:11
We're just going to sit around a fire, open the Bible and have a conversation. But this guy, well,
01:17:18
I don't think he'll have that. No, but but so Bo is is the guy that goes to his church.
01:17:26
And he said, man, I've never seen him act like that in a conversation like I had him all up hot in his pants, son.
01:17:35
Just he didn't know what to think when I was coming out, especially like what he does when
01:17:44
I say there was Elijah or Moses or something like that. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. It's yeah,
01:17:50
I won't get in my view. Well, it's coming because we're going to need a revelation.
01:17:57
Spiritualize it up. Spiritualize it up. Yeah. It's all symbols, dude.
01:18:04
All symbols. Yeah, I hear you. Well, do you have any last words? Oh, it's been a blessing.
01:18:11
I agreed with everything that you were saying there before we got onto the dispensational stuff that. You were the dispensational.
01:18:18
No, I appreciate the fellowship. I'm super happy. Even if we had a dispensational on here that was saying
01:18:24
Matthew 24 was all future for us. Like as long as we agree in Christ on the essentials of matter,
01:18:32
I'm going to highly disagree with you on what you're saying in 24. But I'm just happy to have fellowship in the body.
01:18:39
And so eschatology should be fun inside. I appreciate these kind of conversations where within the majority we are agreeing on, but there's definitely a disagreement on some stuff.
01:18:49
So, yeah. Well, I really missed having you on, man. And again, like you said, you know, we try to get some dispensational to come and join us.
01:18:58
We try to get a pre meal historical. It's really hard to find someone that wants to get online, especially live because we're doing this live.
01:19:07
You know, all the mess ups. There is no retakes. I mean, what happens happens, you know, what stays and what happens in open air theology goes to the world, right?
01:19:18
Goes out to the whole world outside of open air theology. Yeah. So it doesn't stay with us. It just it just continues to go as long as anyone wants to check it out.
01:19:27
But, yeah, man, I really appreciate you and enjoy our time together as always. It's good being back to, you know, talking with you and stuff like that.
01:19:38
As far as last words, it's always the same. Hallelujah.