Matt Slick Bible Study - 7/19/2017 - Mormonism Pt. 2

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July 19, 2017

Matt Slick Bible Study - 7/26/2017 - Mormonism Pt. 3

01:21: And you're live. We're live. Telling jokes, kind of, up here about some stuff.
01:27: Pretty funny. All right. All right, now look, we're going to jump right in.
01:32: So I know that people are going to be watching. You'll be watching later. And right now it's, well, today's the 19th of July, right?
01:40: And Wednesday, so we're live. And if you are a Mormon and you want to...
01:45: You got some questions, please feel free to give us a call. Give us a call. That's my radio attitude. If you want to come in with questions later, you can.
01:53: We're going to do a Q &A after we go through some stuff on Mormonism. And, of course, as you will know,
02:00: I don't believe Mormonism is true. And I know you have a testimony, and so do
02:06: I. And mine is different than yours, which is true. You can say yours is, but there's a problem with testimonies.
02:12: It's that they're subjective. So is truth subjective? No. Truth doesn't depend on your preferences.
02:20: If you think that your personal experience is what determines truth, then how do you know that your personal experience is the right way to go about getting truth?
02:30: And if you say it's because God will reveal it, how do you know that that's the case? If you say it's because of Scripture, then you can't find it in Scripture because it doesn't say that it's
02:38: Scripture. I know on January 1, 5, I was talking about believers already, not unbelievers. There's all kinds of things we could talk about.
02:45: But if you want, you can save your best questions for afterwards. We'll take a break. We'll come back if you have questions.
02:51: But for now, let's pray. We're going to jump right in, I believe. We're going to go on paragraph 29, and we're going to go through the
02:57: Doctrine and Covenants, a little bit of stuff there. And we've got a lot of material that we might have to get to tonight, particularly on salvation and Mormonism, which is impossible.
03:06: And we'll get to that. Let's pray. Lord Jesus, we thank you for your great gift of salvation, of forgiveness of sins that you have given us by your grace, by the faith that we have in you, not by our works, not by our faithfulness, not by our goodness, not by our sincerity, but by everything you have done completely and sufficiently for our salvation, for forgiveness of our sins.
03:32: Lord, I ask that all who would watch this would be blessed, and that you would give me the words to speak, and that I speak them in truth and love, and that you would be glorified in all of us.
03:42: Yes, it's Jesus, your precious name. Amen. Amen. All right. So, there we go.
03:49: Doctrine and Covenants is another word of Scripture in the Mormon church. Are you sure we're on paragraph 29? It didn't feel right.
03:57: Go to 28. What's that? Go to 28. We're on 28? We're on 28. Are you trusting your feelings now?
04:03: I heard that. That's where we ended. We ended with that slide. Okay, we're good. All right. I thought we were in a different place.
04:09: That's why I was all mentally set up. The Doctrine and Covenants is another word of Scripture in the
04:14: Mormon church. It's often abbreviated as DNC or DN. It was first published in 1835.
04:20: It contains the revelations of 2 Joseph Smith and other Eldest Prophets contained in 138 chapters.
04:27: And so, there's a little bit there, the teachings of Ezra Taft Benson. The Doctrine and Covenants, we've learned, documents concerning the eternal nature of families, the degrees of glory, the way men and women have lived this life, and the organization of Christ's church on earth today.
04:41: Now, here's what's interesting is that it hits you at the church bottom six. No, right before page 161, it says that the
04:47: Book of Mormon is the most critical book of any book on earth and the magick of closure and the precepts of God by following it and by aiming at the book.
04:54: Yes, it doesn't contain the stuff that's here. Degrees of glory, eternal nature of families, the way men would imagine this life, things like that.
05:04: It's just not in the Book of Mormon. Now, if Mormonism is true and the Book of Mormon is the most critical book and magick of closure to God by it, then why is
05:13: D &C necessary? Since it, apparently, is quite an addition to the Book of Mormon, which is supposed to be sufficient and correct and able to get you closer to any book.
05:24: Why is D &C necessary? I'll tell you why it's necessary. Because as Mormonism grew and became more aberrant, they needed more revelations to justify their aberrant doctrines.
05:34: So, what had happened was Joseph Smith, early on, codified the Book of Mormon. He wrote this thing down and it contains, actually, a lot of Christianity in it.
05:48: One God and resurrection, grace, and some other things, but it's got some other stuff, too, that's not so good.
05:54: But, nevertheless, it isn't until D &C, Pearl of Great Price, that you really start finding things that are really aberrant.
06:00: That's because it came later on, after the Book of Mormon was codified, was written, and then they had to reinterpret some of the words and phrases in the
06:09: Book of Mormon to adjust to the idea of the Philatelic Mormon theology.
06:16: All right, that's what I believe. Now, things found in D &C by chapter.
06:21: The LDS Church is the only true church with whom God is pleased. You know that.
06:28: That kind of statement always bothers me. Our church is the only one that God's pleased with.
06:35: You know, first of all, they presuppose an earthly church with prophets, apostles, just like the
06:43: Roman Catholic Church does. Whenever I find someone who says to me, this is my experience, 37 years of doing this, whenever I find someone who says, we're in the true church, and they mean their salvation is tied up with the true church,
06:58: I always immediately go, cult, false. And the reason is because it's not the only true church that we need to be concerned with.
07:07: It's our relationship with Jesus, the only true Savior. And the
07:13: Holy Spirit is supposed to bear witness of truth. John 14, 26, John 15, 26 bears witness of Jesus.
07:19: The prophets bear witness of Jesus. I think it's Acts 10, 43, the scriptures bear witness of Jesus. John 5, 3, 9.
07:26: You know, everything's supposed to point to Jesus. But what the false groups do is say their church or their organization is the true one from God.
07:36: They need to be associated with that. That's what the Marks are called. Anyway, they teach John the apostle. He's still alive.
07:42: It has statements on the atonement of Jesus. We can get into that later. Independence, Missouri will be the future city of Zion.
07:51: You know, Missouri. You know, I'm reminded of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Where is the headquarters of God? You know, the
07:57: Jews go, Jerusalem, right? But he's saying it, Jerusalem. The Jehovah's Witnesses, where is the headquarters of God?
08:05: Brooklyn? It just doesn't ring the same. So the
08:11: Mormons, you know, where's the headquarters of God? Salt Lake City. Or where's the future city of Zion?
08:19: Independence, Missouri. Can't show if that's true or not. Anyway, New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri.
08:25: God has a body, flesh, and bones, which the Bible says he does not. Celestial marriage, where couples are married for time and eternity.
08:32: I know that these things are important to Mormons. Celestial marriage, where couples are married for time and eternity.
08:39: Let me tell you guys something, if you're a Mormon. I'm not knocking marriage. I'm not knocking your love for your spouse and your desire to be with your spouse.
08:46: This is a wonderful thing. And Mormons are good people. They want to have families.
08:52: There's nothing wrong with that. It's all good. But the idea that you're going to be married forever is sad.
09:02: And the reason it's sad is because you're missing out on God.
09:09: You're missing out on who God is and his magnificence. Now, I'm not knocking marriage.
09:17: I'm happily married. I've been married 30 years. I have a good wife, except for dates and men. That's an issue.
09:24: But that's not what heaven is, being with your wife or your husband. That's not heaven.
09:30: It's being with God. And I mean this from my heart, because you have a false view of who
09:37: God is. That's why you replace the intimacy with him with something else of this earth and of this world.
09:45: And that's why you elevate celestial marriage, which essentially is eternal sex.
09:52: Now, if that's what you think, heaven is going to be what you think. And really, you're no different than the
10:01: Muslims. That's what they teach also. And Islam, Muhammad taught that men have virgins and heaven has sex with them, perpetual virgins.
10:12: But that's what they teach. And you can tell when a man -made religion hits a scene, because they want women and lots of wives.
10:22: And we know why that's the case. Let's just move along. The Pearl of Great Price is a scripture according to Mormon church.
10:29: It contains sentences from the Book of Moses, the Book of Abraham, Smith's translations, a portion of the Gospel of Matthew, Smith's history, and the 13 other books of faith.
10:39: In July of 1835, this is important. An Irishman named
10:45: Michael Chandler brought an exhibit of four Egyptian mummies and some papyri to Kirkland, Ohio.
10:51: Then the home of the Mormons. Papyri was a plant, a papyri plant. And they would do things to it and make it flat.
10:58: And then they would lay it out, wet it, lay it out. And then they would take other of the same material and do a perpendicular.
11:05: And then they would lay it out, scrape it, put some kind of oils and stuff on it.
11:11: And they would go back and forth like this and build a layer. And that was papyri. And they would use it for writing. And so it lasts a long time.
11:20: Papyri contained Egyptian hieroglyphics. Smith said that one of the papyri scrolls contained the
11:26: Book of Abraham. So the church bought the scrolls back then for $2 ,400. That's a lot of money back then.
11:32: And as prophet and seer of Ilda's church, Smith then translated the
11:38: Book of Abraham by the same power and authority he used when translating the Book of Mormon. Now this is important because if Joseph Smith is true, then it means he had the power to translate the
11:51: Book of Mormon. Well, how do you test that? You can't. Why? There's no place.
11:57: There's nothing. So how do you test it? Well, that's the thing about what's called non -falsifiability. You can't prove it to be false because there's no evidence.
12:06: It's just that. Well, the Book of Abraham and papyri were lost, but they were found.
12:18: And so they were thought they were destroyed in Chicago in a fire in 1871.
12:25: But at this time Egyptian hieroglyphics were undesirable. So verification of the translation was not needed.
12:31: Eventually the Pearl of Great Price, including the Book of Abraham, was voted into the LDS STEM boards in 1888.
12:37: All right. In 1956, the papyri were rediscovered in one of the ballrooms of New York Metropolitan Museum of Art.
12:46: That means the very same ones that Joseph Smith had, his handwriting on the back of them, he had.
12:53: So the Deseret News verified this. Now look at the underlying stuff. Egyptian hieroglyphics had been decidable since the late 1800s.
13:01: They found what was called the Rosetta Stone. And so now they're able to do this, able to verify.
13:06: How do they know it's the same one? Because of things like this.
13:13: The graphics that are in the Book of Abraham are the same ones in the papyri.
13:19: Remember, it has pictures here. You can see the stuff down here, missing parts.
13:27: And so they had the same kind of thing here. And he filled in the blanks.
13:33: This is it. This is the same papyri. So he had to fill it in. And experts who know this stuff have said that he filled it in incorrectly.
13:44: He blew it. So he filled it in. And, well, anyway, they were able to be translated.
13:50: I'm not going to read a lot of this stuff here, but basically they're going to be translated. So what the Mormons were saying back then, they said, look, we'll prove to you that Joseph Smith was a true prophet because he had the ability to do this.
14:02: He had great faith. And we've got the papyri, the Egyptian hieroglyphic. People are going to translate it, and they're going to tell you it's true.
14:09: And, of course, it wasn't. So what they had to do was come up with something called reform hieroglyphics.
14:16: There's no evidence of reform hieroglyphics. You can just say it was a hieroglyphic from the
14:23: Third World Empire of the Venetians. You can say the same thing. What evidence is there of it?
14:29: None. It doesn't exist. But this is what they would say because it didn't fit their – it didn't fit.
14:37: The facts just didn't fit. So when the facts don't fit your feelings, you change the fact that there's no facts.
14:44: Now, about 20 years or so ago, I was in San Diego. A woman called me up, and she told me on the phone.
14:53: She said she did not want to debate me. She didn't want me. I said, okay.
15:00: I said, thank you. I just answered the phone. And she said – she was very cautious in what she said.
15:07: I knew she was going to tell me something. I just listened. And she said one of her copies for years had been studying a different hieroglyphic style.
15:20: And right away, I knew the problem. I knew what she was calling me. And she was quiet.
15:25: The way she was saying it was like this. So I've been studying
15:33: Egyptian mythology. I've heard of it for many years. There's a pause.
15:39: I gotcha. And it's a long pause. And I said, you found the problem.
15:46: There's a pause. And there's this pause. And she said, yes. And I said, have you got it all figured out?
15:53: She said, yes, I did. I said, what do you think it is? Nothing came of it. Nothing came of it.
15:59: What do you think it is? I don't know. I don't know. I said, well, you know,
16:07: I'm here. I want to talk. And I'm on your side. And she never called back.
16:14: But I don't know what happened. But she realized Joseph Smith was not Jewish. It's unfortunate that Mormons believe this stuff.
16:30: And I've been in contact with some Mormons recently and how they defend so hard a lie from the devil.
16:38: And my heart is saddened. I wish there was a way to meet with the
16:47: Mormons and just talk to them about who Jesus really is, given the real gospel. And the reason
16:52: I want to do that is because, and I don't mean this in an insulting way, but only as a man of God.
17:01: The Mormons are on their way to eternal damnation. God is not an exalted man from another planet who has a body, flesh, and bones, who has sexual intercourse with his goddess wife and makes spirit babies.
17:13: That's not Christian. That's what Mormonism teaches. Anyway, back to the prologue of Great Price.
17:20: And here's one more drawing. I can read everything, but the point is that Joseph Smith translated it and said certain things in the
17:31: Barbarian, and he was so far off. I remember reading a comment by an expert at Paraglyptics who compared his translation with the original.
17:46: And the comment was, generally, if someone were guessing, he might come close to a few things.
17:53: He said, he didn't even do that. He was so far off.
18:01: It was obvious, this guy said, there's absolutely no way he was doing this with God's power.
18:09: Well, here's the thing. If Smith translated the book of Abraham with the same authority and ability he did with the book of Mormon, and it has been proven that Smith was one of the people of Abraham, then what does that tell us about the book of Mormon?
18:24: It means the book of Mormon's not true. We can't trust it. Real simple. OK? It's as simple.
18:32: He said he translated the book of Abraham the same way he did the book of Mormon. We can prove that he got the book of Abraham wrong.
18:39: So how could you then believe he got the book of Mormon right? Simple.
18:45: We can't. So Mormonism is refuted by the facts.
18:53: So what's the response? Special revelation, reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics.
19:00: I'm just going to say here to pull right for our student manual, the greatest evidence of the truthfulness of the book of Abraham is not found in an analysis of physical evidence, nor in historical background, but in prayerful consideration of its contents and power.
19:15: In other words, we admit that there are no facts to back this up.
19:21: We admit it doesn't work. We admit the evidence contradicts everything, so we're going to ignore that and go back to feelings.
19:31: That's what's going on. Back to feelings. In prayerful consideration. Doesn't that sound good?
19:37: Prayerful consideration. It sounds spiritual. It sounds holy. It sounds
19:43: Godly. But it's not true. You don't find truth in prayerful consideration.
19:55: You see, you find truth in God's word. If you say, yes, you do find it in prayerful consideration, then what about the
20:02: Muslims? What about the Jehovah's Witnesses? Christian scientists? What about those who hold to the other more than 100 derivations of the book of Mormon and different Mormon -type groups who disagree with it?
20:17: Prayerful consideration leads to chaos. What we need is the word of God.
20:24: You believe the word of God, you'll be OK. But Jesus warned us in Matthew 24, 24, where false christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
20:36: Matthew 24, 24. If possible, they can lead even the elect astray.
20:42: What that means is the elect cannot be misled. I'm going to give you a little theology. The word elect here,
20:49: I'm not sure exactly which word it is. Probably eclektos. There's three mainly
20:54: Greek words used for elect, election, choosing, things like that.
21:00: That's what elect is. It's the same basic root. For God elects, God chooses. And we choose. The three basic words are eclektos, eclege, eclegel.
21:11: And the word for church is ecclesia. There's a relationship there. So the elect are the chosen ones of God, in Ephesians 1, 4, and 5, where it says that God predestines us for salvation.
21:27: If He predestines us for salvation, that means He's chosen us to do that from the foundation of the world. If He's chosen us from the foundation of the world, that means we have been given by the
21:37: Father to the Son, John 6, 37, 38, 39, 40, which says that all of the
21:42: Father's beauty will come to me and I will certainly not cast Him out. He will raise me up on the last day. That's who the elect are, the ones chosen by God and given to the
21:50: Father, but by the Father to the Son. The elect cannot be deceived. Cannot.
21:57: Now, why am I bringing this up? Because a false Christ and false prophets are going to rise and deceive people.
22:04: Jesus said there aren't any more prophets. Luke 16, 16, the law of the prophets where He killed
22:09: John, killed John the Baptist. Now, what they'll say is there's prophets, as it was in the Old Testament sense, and they're able to write
22:17: Scripture and they teach God came from the planet. And if you become a god with secret handshakes, keep celestial law.
22:23: Go to the third level of celestial heaven, the church of the firstborn. You can't have underwear. You've got to go through temple ceremony, where the veil is.
22:31: Put your hand through the veil, shake hands with God. Even though in Matthew 27, when
22:37: Jesus was crucified, God destroyed that veil, which
22:42: I always had a question for the Mormons. Why didn't He put it back? What did God destroy? He got rid of the veil. They put it back.
22:48: The veil was a symbol of the separation between God and man, the holy of holies and the holy place. And God destroyed that as the blood of Christ that He shed in atonement right there.
22:58: But no, the Mormons put it back in their multiple temples all over so that people can enjoy that separation from God all over again when they do it with that fellowship with handshakes and hugs.
23:10: This is the dogma of false prophets. I'm not deceived by it because I'm one of the elect.
23:16: How do I know I'm one of the elect? Because I believe in the truth of God. Real simple.
23:25: The Mormons are not. We don't know if they're chosen to be saved later. But if you believe in this stuff of Mormonism, you cannot be a
23:34: Christian. And if you die believing in Mormonism, you are on your way to eternal damnation because God is not an exalted man from another planet.
23:42: He's a Godless wife. That makes Him aliens. A life -form from another planet is an alien.
23:48: And you're bowing before an alien creature from another world and saying it's your God, and then you worship that God.
23:58: Yet the Bible says that they would know any other gods. Isaiah 43 .10, 44 .5, 44 .6,
24:04: 44 .8, 45 .5. They don't even know any others. Who in this world would make it into this? I can go on and on.
24:12: But I'll just keep going here. The Mormon church structure. We have the First Presidency, the Quorum of the
24:18: Twelve Apostles. Underneath them is the Quorum of the Seventy. I've met the Seventy before.
24:24: Very interesting. Stakes, then whores, bishops, and then members. I was in Southern California at a swapping ministry
24:32: I had every Saturday for two and a half years. And this guy comes up, I remember him. And he was actually one of the
24:38: Seventy. And I didn't know that until we were talking. And I said, I clued in. You're obviously
24:46: Mormon. He says, yeah. We started talking. And he was a little bit more slick in his presentation of things.
24:54: And I said, so are you going to be a bishop? He kind of nodded his head no.
25:02: I said, what then? I can tell. He said, wait, you're one of the Seventy? I said, yeah.
25:08: Really? And I asked him what his name was. I forgot it. And we had a discussion. I said, well, why are you going to sit down and talk about this?
25:14: He said, I'm not interested. I said, you know what? We can talk.
25:20: You've got someone here to study this stuff. You're supposed to know this on the inside. If you were the Seventy, it would be a nice, polite conversation.
25:28: He said, I'm not interested. And he just went his own merry way. A lot of interesting things happen at that swamp.
25:35: I'll tell you. Oh, yeah. It's a great swamp.
25:41: What's that? It was a great swamp. It was a great. I know there's a great deal out there. Yeah. I always don't know if my family has been there twice.
25:49: I mean, it's been a lot. Yeah. You know, I used to go to class each day and just come back, and there's this paper moving across. Walked over.
25:57: He walked out front. He was like, other than that, it wasn't bad. All right.
26:07: So the first presidency, the two councilors, the death of the president, the longest -serving member of the total process becomes president.
26:17: I always thought that was bonkers. I mean, how do you determine spirituality?
26:27: The next guy in line. I mean, the next guy in line.
26:33: Who's next? Who's the next spiritual person? Try it. He's the next one in line. He's the spiritual guy next.
26:40: How do you know? Because he's next in line. I've always thought that was a problem. I mean,
26:45: I'd be like, just because he's next in line doesn't mean he's the right person. I mean, in the
26:53: Bible, that's not how it was always done. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. But that's it. Next in line.
27:00: It reminds me of this heresy guy that I met. He was church of something, the 7th something.
27:11: I haven't spent a long time. And he said he was in the preexistence. It wasn't
27:18: Mormon. It was a different preexistence. And there was a discussion in heaven.
27:24: And he was in line with other people. And so someone asked, well, who would like to be the apostle to the
27:33: North American continent? He goes, I will. I'll do it. He goes, okay, you're next.
27:44: No, I'm not joking. I have a whole section on this on my website. It really upset me when I did this.
27:50: I exposed all my doctrines in a change of name. I'm sure it's in the 7th something or something.
27:56: But then we started to stop a cult early on. But, I mean, you know, the thing about being in line,
28:04: I never could get that. Okay, so a lot of presidents.
28:13: I can name them all off. Not a big deal. But, you know, Monson's now president, 16 of them. Come on.
28:21: Here we go. So let's get into, yeah. Let's get into the
28:27: Mormon doctrine. Here we go. Now, I have to confess something here.
28:36: Now, my wife already knows this. And most of my acquaintances already know this as well. That I have some screws loose.
28:44: And I've heard too many events. But I can tell. They're chuckling behind the camera. They're going. I have a particular enjoyment for heresy.
28:54: Now, it's kind of a weird thing. I'm drawn to it. And I don't know.
29:01: I'm made to read it. Made to study it because I can see so clearly it's so bad. And then
29:07: I want to fix it. And that's the male ending. It's broken. I've got to fix it. That's the story in heresy.
29:14: Here's the fix. And so I think it's kind of an anal retentive kind of an
29:20: Asperger's autism thing combined with male mentality of fixing things.
29:26: And spiritual stuff. When I see heresy, I'm like, whoa, yeah, heresy.
29:32: And, you know, it's the same kind of thing I want to do when I go to a computer store and there's a big motherboard in the box.
29:37: And I take it and rub it in my chest. I did that once in public with my wife.
29:44: She turned around and kept walking. I'm following her, rubbing. Honey? Honey? Was there something I said? She was like, do it.
29:51: Well, you know, you've got to be a little odd to survive this kind of environment.
29:59: Yeah, I'm burying myself. My reputation is going down the hill. So I can't go any further.
30:05: So the thing is, I really enjoy heresy. And obviously
30:11: God made this in me so that I would be drawn to do this kind of a thing and fix.
30:17: In other words, I'm called to do what I do. So anyway, so Mormon doctrine teaches that God is an exalted man.
30:28: It teaches that there are countless gods that exist in the universe. And our God used to be a man on another world who became a god by following the laws and ordinances of his god on that planet.
30:41: He then came to this world and populated it with his godless wife. This is Mormonism. Now, when
30:47: I was at the same swapping ministry, a guy came up, and I still remember this. And he said, what are you guys doing?
30:53: Oh, passing out literature about religious groups, Christianity, and non -Christian Mormonism.
30:59: Well, that's kind of arrogant of you. Yeah, but it's still true.
31:04: That's what we're doing, you know. Why do you do that? I said, well, because then you're false.
31:10: He goes, yeah, right. I said, look, Mormonism, for example, teaches God used to be a man on another planet, became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that planet, brought one of his wives with him, exalted her, goddesshood.
31:23: They came to this world, the spirit realm. He's got a body, flesh, and bones about six feet tall. She's got a body, flesh, and bones in heaven, like spirit babies in heaven.
31:32: And then they become a good Mormon. You go to the church. You pay a full 10 % tithe of your income to the church. You get a temple recommend.
31:38: You go to the temple. They'll give you secret handshakes and secret hugs with their underwear. You get a new name. Hopefully what happens is you get to become a god on your own planet by shaking hands with God in the afterlife.
31:50: And he said, you're lying. I said, no, I'm not lying. I'm not lying. It's what I teach. And he actually said to me, no one's that stupid to believe that.
31:59: You're making it up. I go, but it's right here. He goes, get with me. And he walked off. I'm not joking.
32:06: And then I tried, I couldn't believe it. I tried to convince him about Mormonism. What am
32:12: I doing here? You know, that's not right. And so, yeah, it was going to be a weird moment.
32:20: You know. Really, come back here to the table. And so, he wouldn't believe me.
32:27: I remember thinking that the back of the hand is walking away. He didn't believe me. He went, no, you're lying.
32:39: So, George Joseph Smith teach. Joseph Smith said God was a man. This is what he said.
32:45: I think I'm joking. Look, I go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of being
32:50: God is. God himself was once, as we are now, and is an exalted man. What was
32:56: I saying? That's what he said. Teaching the prophet Joseph Smith, page 345. That's what
33:01: Mormonism teaches. This is Joseph Smith's words. He started Mormonism. Okay? How about this, page 345 and 6?
33:09: We've imagined and supposed that God was God in all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veils, so that you may see.
33:17: He was once a man like us. Yea, that God, the father of us, all dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.
33:28: People say, you're making this up. I'm not making it up. Joseph Smith is the one who got me started in apologetics.
33:36: In 1980, someone read me a quote from him. We'll get to it later. I started studying it. This is what
33:44: Joseph Smith teaches. So God had a father. If Jesus Christ was the son of God, and John discovered that God, the father of Jesus, had a father, you may suppose he had a father also.
33:56: And then look at the last one there. That which is without body parts is nothing. There is no
34:01: God in heaven, but that God who has flesh and bones. So now,
34:08: God has flesh and bones. That's just not in the
34:15: Bible. Not scriptural. Keep going. Brigham Young, the second prophet of the
34:21: Mormon church. He says, he, God, is our father, the father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are.
34:32: Now the next quote. God is not everywhere. Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere.
34:38: It is not so. Here's another thing he said. Yes, he was once a man like you and I are, and was once on an earth like this.
34:48: This is a documentation. The first and second prophet of the Mormon church. Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president.
34:56: God is growing in knowledge. God is increasing in knowledge. If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind.
35:09: God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so world without end.
35:18: So, there are logical problems with this. I mean, I could sit here, go to the chalkboard, and talk about actual, potential infinite, actual infinite progressions and things like this.
35:29: It's logically impossible. But, God is, just think this way.
35:35: God is increasing in knowledge. Is it possible then? Then he might, you know, a million years ago, dog, the handshakes are wrong.
35:48: Who knows? Or he might, you know, learn something new. Is he progressing? You know, there's a lot of ways to demolish this.
35:58: A lot. But Mormons, no offense, Mormons are not known for intellectual discussions on these kinds of topics.
36:06: They hide from it. Because logic works against them. Anyway, there's the famous, what's called the
36:13: Lorenzo Snow Comet. As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may be.
36:22: Spencer W. Kimball, 12th president, said that men with keen intelligence got together at Nicaea and created a
36:29: God. Wow. Wow. They did not pray for wisdom or revelation.
36:36: Like, he was there. Yeah. Actually, I've been to Nicaea. I've been in the building. And so he knows that they didn't pray for wisdom.
36:50: They didn't pray for God. They claimed no revelation from the Lord. They were reading the word of God.
36:57: They had a revelation from the Lord. They made it just like a political party would do.
37:02: Really? How do you know that this is nothing but just, what is it, historical reconstructivism in order to make yourself look good.
37:12: That's all that's going on here. There's no documentation from these guys on this problem. There's none of it.
37:18: They just make these statements. And the Mormons go, yeah. It's all a glyph. Wasn't a very good sheet, was it?
37:27: Sick fraud. And out of their own moral vice created a
37:33: God which is still worshipped by the great majority of Christians. I think my humor is one of the ways
37:42: I cope with dealing with this. Because I'm going to, I could seriously lose my cool just because I know what it does.
37:49: It damns evil, eternal damnation. Okay. Here we go.
40:11: We're ready. So I'll get rid of this then. Take it off. So we're on that. Can you hear me okay? I can't hear you yet.
40:20: Okay. It might take a bit to go through the system. Come back to the lamp. But it is on.
40:26: We can see the mic. It's working. Okay. All right.
40:32: So we kind of lost our sound there. But it just went dead.
40:40: Yeah. It's dead. I think I'll just get a replacement. I'll get another mic system. I got something that will work.
40:47: All right. So the Trinity is a monster according to Joseph Smith.
40:54: It says, Many men may say there's one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are all one
41:00: God. I say that is a strange God. You know, three in one and one in three is a curious organization.
41:07: All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in the world.
41:12: He would be a wonderfully big God. He would be a giant or a monster. So what he's doing is in incredible arrogance, pontificating and saying that the doctrine of the
41:26: Trinity is a monstrous God. He has no clue of what he's talking about.
41:31: I will debate any moment. I don't care who it is. I mean, as long as he's qualified.
41:39: I don't care who. If he's a good, qualified Mormon, I'll debate him on the doctrine of the Trinity. Period. Tell me what you want me to say.
41:48: Is the Trinity doctrine a monstrous doctrine or not? And I would debate it with anyone.
41:56: Of course, no one's going to take me up on it. Mormons just don't do that kind of thing. They make statements and they don't back them up.
42:07: Milton Hunter, a seventies member, said, The Godhead is three gods. The ancient prophets knew that the
42:13: Godhead consisted of three separate and distinct personages, each of whom had a definite work to perform, and yet they all work in perfect unity as one.
42:21: The three gods constitute the Holy Trinity. John Woodsoe said,
42:27: The Bible, if read fully and intelligently, teaches the Holy Trinity is composed of individual gods.
42:35: I mean, all you've got to do is read the Bible. Isaiah 43, 44, 45.
42:42: Let's go to Isaiah 43, 44, 45. Just read. Underline where it says there's no God before, no
42:48: God after. He doesn't even know of any other gods. The standard response by the
42:53: Mormons is of this world, Matt. And I say, where does it say that?
43:00: You know, if you go to Genesis chapter three, verses one through six, Satan comes to Eve and says, did
43:06: God really say that in God's Word? Her response was to modify the
43:11: Word of God, which she quoted. Change it just a little bit. Add the words or touch it in regard to the fruit, eating the fruit or not.
43:19: Once the modification was done, Satan could get in and contradict. So this is what happens.
43:25: One of the things that cults do is they will make a verse in the opposite of what it actually says.
43:31: So for example, God says he doesn't even know of any other god. Okay? He doesn't even know of any other god.
43:38: So what they'll say is, of this world. Oh. So now he does know of another god. Because he's of this world, no, but he doesn't know about it.
43:47: So now the text says the opposite of what it says. And how should
43:53: God word it if he wants to say there aren't any other gods? He would say things like there are no gods beside me.
44:02: I don't even know of any other. That's what you say. But because Mormonism says you become a god, we'll get to that in a bit, and the
44:12: Trinity's three separate gods, and then don't forget there's God the Father, the Goddess Mother, Jesus is a god, the
44:19: Holy Spirit's a god. That's four. Don't forget there's the
44:24: God who resurrected every devil he knew. That's five gods right there. So at the very least, you've got five gods you've got to deal with.
44:33: No, only of this world. Except the Bible says the god of this world is blind to the minds of the unbelievers.
44:40: 2 Corinthians 4, verses 3 and 4. The god of this world is blind to the minds of unbelievers.
44:48: Um. As I mentioned before about becoming gods, that's what the church teaches, alright?
44:55: This is teaching from the prophet Joseph Smith, page 346 -347. Paragraph 55 here. Here, then, is eternal life to know the only wise and true
45:05: God, and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from one small capacity to a great one.
45:19: Doesn't that sound good? Now, I'm going to tell you something. Aside from being big regenerate, being a
45:25: Christian who knows the good God, if I were I mean, I can imagine what it's like to be pagan because I can remember back when
45:32: I was not so ashamed of life. I remember. If someone said, you know what?
45:37: You can become a god. Whoa, yeah. I'm almost there now anyway. Yeah, it wouldn't take much more.
45:47: Make it official. Yeah. Come on. Come on.
45:53: When I was 19, I was spelt. Anyway.
46:01: So, you know, it's just ego.
46:07: It's pride. It's become a god. Become a god. So, Saturday, if anybody wants to, we're going to be going to the goddess festival in Boise.
46:19: The goddesses. The goddesses. The goddess festival. There's ladies there.
46:25: And it's a goddess festival. I've been there before. And watch. Kind of be careful. Because you don't want to offend goddesses.
46:33: A normal woman is probably mad. But a goddess woman, it's upsetting.
46:40: I mean, just stay away. So, you know, I've been there before. You can ask questions.
46:46: There's lots of goddesses there. And then they dance and they do what's the belly dancing?
46:57: Thank you. They do that. They have a painting. They have some nice stuff there. And they're nice people until you start asking questions.
47:05: And then they stop you. But I always want to ask them, are you a goddess?
47:10: Here's a goddess. Can you show me some goddess stuff?
47:19: You know, some goddess stuff. I mean, I want to see something. No, we just teach.
47:24: Teach what? There are goddesses. Well, do you have any goddess abilities? You know, like, do you materialize it?
47:30: Turn him into a frog or something? No, we're just divine.
47:36: Okay? Can you show me the divinity? We're just divine. Go away. But I'm still here.
47:43: Good work. You know, I've got questions. Do they get money?
47:53: They sell stuff. But I can just say, look, there's only one goddess that I married to work with.
48:03: What? What? Yeah. Excuse me. I was trying to get out of the hole.
48:11: I dug myself in the hole. I'm not scoring any points. Okay. So Joseph Fielding, the 10th president, said,
48:22: Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods and that men, by obeying the commandments of God, and keeping the whole law, will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he himself will become a god.
48:37: What? Keeping the whole law. You know, how do you keep the whole law?
48:47: It's the intention of the heart. It's the intention of the heart. That's what the law is.
48:53: If I were to slap you, is it good or bad? Depends. If I slap you because I don't like your face, not good. If I slap you because I'm trying to get that slimy, venomous vulgar beetle off of you, you know, to save you, that's okay.
49:05: See, the intention is the issue. So the intention of keeping the law, that's what counts.
49:10: Now, that means that your heart's perfect. But I've had women say, no, it doesn't have to be perfect.
49:17: It's just got to be really good and sincere because God knows we're trying. Well, Isaiah, excuse me,
49:22: Deuteronomy 27, 26 says, you've got to keep all of the law. There's no ifs, ands, or buts.
49:28: There's no close calls. You have got to keep that law perfectly.
49:35: And then they'll talk about these tangents. But, you know, they'll talk about actually keeping the commandments of God.
49:42: Let me tell you something. Anybody who believes that you can keep the commandments of God, you're an arrogant fool.
49:51: That's it. Yeah. I keep all the commandments. I never screw up.
49:58: I never mess up. Is that a bad word? No, it's okay. Because if I said it, it'd be bad.
50:13: What they're talking about in the law is all of the law. All of it.
50:19: Now, they wouldn't say you don't need the sacrificial system anymore. But they certainly have a priesthood. They certainly have some other stuff we'll get into maybe later.
50:27: But the thing is you've got to keep all the law. You can't. Senator W.
50:34: Kimball, 12th president, said, in each of us, there's a potentiality to become a god.
50:40: Pure, holy, true, influential, powerful, independent of earthly forces.
50:46: If I wanted to start a cult, this is the kind of stuff I would say. I would say, you are wonderful.
50:55: You have the potentiality to become great. Pure, holy, true, influential, powerful, and independent of earthly forces.
51:05: People go, oh, yes. That's right. Tell me what I want to hear. You know, that's the appeal of the enemy to the flesh and the pride of men.
51:20: Especially men become a god. And then you get to call forth one of your wives.
51:27: Now, I'm 16, but I remember my teens. I know what the guys are thinking when they go, can we put this down, please?
51:39: Oh, we know what's going on. That's why you get relations really fast.
51:49: LDS Church manual says, can you see a reasonable basis of belief that you can become a god, like he is by progressing here and hereafter?
51:58: No. I can't see a reasonable basis of that. What about Percy Whitney? Man is to become a god.
52:04: The difference between the human and the divine is a matter of education and development. Wow. This is just arrogance.
52:11: There's only one god. Man created before and then created after. That's it. I mean, how can anybody believe this stuff?
52:19: How can anybody believe it? I can tell you how. By not being a true Christian, by not being regenerate, by not having the true god in you, but by having a false god in you.
52:29: The false god who teaches how great you are, how wonderful you are, who appeals to your flesh, appeals to your pride.
52:36: That's the god of this world, who blinds the mind of the unbelievers so they will not believe the gospel of the true god.
52:44: That's what's happening. And Mormon doctrine teaches polytheism.
52:50: It affirms the existence of many gods. I've gone over this.
52:55: You guys can read this stuff. But the Book of Mormon teaches monotheism.
53:01: But let's just go into it. Entering the Mormon view.
53:07: And now behold, this is what the Book of Mormon says, 2 Nephi 31 21, and now behold, that this is a doctrine of Christ and the only and true god of the
53:15: Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God. I wish the
53:21: Bible was as clear as this. I wish this was in the Bible. That'd be great.
53:29: It'd make defending the Trinity even easier. Mosiah 15 3 -5
53:35: Let's get halfway down there. And they are one God, and yea, the very eternal Father of heaven and of the earth, and thus the flesh becoming subject to the
53:43: Spirit, or to the Son, or the Son to the Father, being one God.
53:49: Alma 11 28 29. Now, Zerub said, is there more than one God? And the answer, no.
53:55: And Ether 2a has a gasp. Forever he should serve him, the true and only
54:01: God. The true and only God. I'm going to get my joke in. That's what they used to use to knock people out of Ether.
54:14: You know when you get exploited? What does Isaiah 44 6 say?
54:20: Thus says the Lord, now that's actually in Hebrew, Yahweh, or Jehovah. Thus says
54:25: Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah the Most. I am the first and I am the last, and there is no
54:31: God, there is no Elohim, beside me. Isaiah 44 8, is there any
54:37: Elohim, any God beside me? Or is there any other rock? I know of none. Isaiah 45 5
54:43: I am Yahweh, or I am Jehovah. And there is no other, beside me, there is no Elohim. There is no
54:49: God. That's what he says. Now there's a lot to deal with here.
55:00: And I think we're in a good place to take a break before we get into the issue of Jesus. But lately
55:09: I've been driving by the Mormon courts and chapels and stuff, and I see the cars parked in front of us.
55:19: And it's not going to be effective, but I want to go in there and just not muscle my way in and get in front of the church.
55:31: But I want to muscle my way in and get in front of the church. And just beg them to believe in the true and only
55:40: God. And to not believe in this false doctrine of Joseph Smith. They would carry me out.
55:48: They wouldn't beat me up. They'd say, get out. They'd be nice about it.
55:54: Mormons are nice people. I'm not knocking them for that. But my heart just breaks.
56:04: Because Mormons are living with a false God. And the consequence of that is eternal damnation.
56:12: Mormons are going to go to hell forever. Unless they repent, believe in a God from another planet, that God is white, has sex, and excreted babies.
56:19: And have a human body so they can become gods. And everything you believe in is based on what
56:26: Joseph Smith said. Everything the Mormons believe in. And the deception is incredibly strong.
56:39: I'm just one guy. And we're just individuals here. We can't do a whole bunch.
56:46: But if by God's grace he would allow us to lead even one more person out of Mormonism and into faith in Christ.
56:56: That's our heart's desire. And I didn't have God before. I'm reminded of that movie in World War II where the
57:05: SDA guy who went in and saw the movie recently.
57:11: Hacksaw Ridge. And he's up there and just,
57:16: Lord, let me save one more person. And he would just take these people who were injured and lower them down a rope so they could be saved.
57:23: Even to Japanese people. Just one more. Just one more.
57:29: Just one more. I like that. Just one more. Because it's an infinitely long time we've known about God.
57:39: And I don't hate Mormons. No Mormons wronged me. I've been threatened by a couple.
57:45: They're just church. That doesn't represent Mormon church. It just wows everyone. It's not...
57:51: I was never a Mormon or anything like that. I wasn't baptized. I wasn't molested by any
57:57: Mormons. I wasn't anything. It's just simply an issue of it's just not biblical.
58:03: And I know where Mormons are going. It's very in my testimony. To the power and the authority of Jesus Christ given to me at my salvation when he himself came to me in person.
58:23: Couldn't see him. Couldn't touch him. Because my face was to the ground. Agonizing.
58:29: Weeping. Tears. Pure wholeness. He came.
58:36: He was right there. I remember. And I know who he is.
58:41: And I've been in his process. And I know that Mormonism can't be true because they don't know him.
58:50: They know something else. A false teacher. A false gospel. A false Christ. And no one is liar to me in the presence of Jesus.
59:01: My testimony today is that there's only one God in all existence, in all place, in all time.
59:07: He's a Trinity. And the second person of the Trinity became one of us and did what we could not.
59:14: Get along perfectly. In his intention, in his actions. And then he went to the cross.
59:24: And in that horrible death, bore and was sinned his body in the cross. He died with it.
59:31: And he rose from the dead three days later. And the only thing left for us to do is receive what he did.
59:37: Trust in what he did. To do otherwise is to reject
59:43: God. And to reject his offering. It's either all Jesus or it's not.
59:49: Amen? Jesus did everything we need. You don't add to it. You don't get saved after all you can do.
59:58: 2 Nephi 25 -23. You don't do that. You trust in Christ alone.
01:00:04: I would invite Mormons if the burden of becoming a
01:00:10: God and keeping celestial law is too much. If you realize the sincerity of your own heart, you're not as good as you think.
01:00:20: I mean, you really realize it. You realize that this is not working. And reach out to Jesus.
01:00:28: He said, come to me, all who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Nephi 11 -28, Luke 10 -22.
01:00:35: He says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it. John 14 -14. In all authority in heaven and earth,
01:00:41: Nephi 28 -18, he forgives sins. Luke 5 -20 and 7 -28. So go to the one who has all that authority to forgive you.
01:00:50: And ask him to forgive you of all of your sins. You see, sin's breaking the law of God. And if he kept the law, he can give you the righteousness he's had by keeping that law.
01:01:06: He can give it to you freely by faith. That's why it says in Philippians 3 -9, we have a righteousness that's not our own.
01:01:16: The righteousness that comes from God. That's real Christian faith. Not self - exalting righteousness of sufficient sincerity that works to become a
01:01:29: God. I just ask that, you know, if you're a
01:01:34: Mormon, that you would turn yourself to Christ of Scripture. And even in the Book of Mormon, 3rd
01:01:40: Nephi 19 -18, they pray to Jesus. And ask Jesus. Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins.
01:01:46: Ask Him. Ask Jesus to do that. Depend on Him completely. Not in your own words.
01:01:52: Not in your own sincerity. But in Him alone. And that's what the truth is in Christ.
01:01:58: That's the gospel. Amen? Amen. Alright, so we'll pray.
01:02:04: Close this out. Take a break. We'll come back to the Q &A. Lord, thank You for this time. And Lord, just thank
01:02:11: You for the people here. And I hope that the listeners are blessed. And that Lord, You be glorified.
01:02:17: Lord Jesus, thank You. Praise You. And ask that You would save people out of the darkness and warmness and bring them into the light of the truth.
01:02:27: And find salvation in You, Christ. In You, Jesus, we ask this. In Your precious name. Amen. Alright.
01:02:37: We're out. Now, all those quotes and all those, you know, things that Joseph says, you know, he also said that the moon was inhabited by people that looked like Quakers.
01:02:52: So we really shouldn't be surprised what people come up with. ... ... ...
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