Matt Slick Bible Study - 7/19/2017 - Mormonism Pt. 2

And you're live.

We're live.

Telling jokes, kind of, up here about some of this stuff.

Alright, now look, we're going to jump right in.

So, I know that people are going to be watching.

You'll be watching later.

And right now, it's, well, today's the 19th of July, right?

And Wednesday, so we're live.

And if you are a Mormon and you want to...

You guys have questions, please feel free to give us a call.

Give us a call.

That's my radio attitude.

If you want to come in with questions later, you can.

We're going to do a Q &A after we go through some stuff on Mormonism.

And, of course, as you will know, I don't believe Mormonism is true.

And I know you have a testimony, and so do I.

And mine is different than yours, which is true.

You can say yours is, but there's a problem with testimonies.

It's that they're subjective.

So, is truth subjective?

No.

Truth doesn't depend on your preferences.

If you think that your personal experience is what determines truth, then how do you know

that your personal experience is the right way to go about getting truth?

And if you say it's because God will reveal it, how do you know that that's the case?

If you say it's because of Scripture, then you can't find it in Scripture, because it's the same as Scripture.

I know on Channel 1 -5, we're talking about believers already, not unbelievers.

There's all kinds of things we could talk about.

But if you want, you can save your best questions for afterwards.

We'll take a break and come back if you have questions.

But for now, let's pray.

We're going to jump right in, I believe.

We've got 29, and we're going to go through the Doctrine and Covenants, a little bit of stuff there.

And we've got a lot of material that we might not get to tonight, particularly on salvation and Mormonism, which is impossible.

And we'll get to that.

Let's pray.

Lord Jesus, we thank you for your great gift of salvation, of forgiveness of sins that you have given us

by your grace, by the faith that we have in you.

Not by our works, not by our faithfulness, not by our goodness, not by our sincerity, but

by everything you have done completely and sufficiently for our salvation,

for forgiveness of our sins.

Lord, I ask that all who would watch this would be blessed, and that you would give me the words to speak, and that I speak

them in truth and love, and that you would be glorified in all of us.

Yes, it's Jesus, your precious name.

Amen.

All right.

So there we go.

The Doctrine and Covenants is another work of scripture in the Mormon church.

Are you sure we're heard right now?

Go to 28.

What's that?

Go to 28.

We're on 28?

We're on 28.

Are you trusting your feelings now?

I heard that.

That's where we ended.

We ended with that slide.

Okay, we're good.

All right.

I thought we were in different places.

I was all mentally separate from you.

The Doctrine and Covenants is another work of scripture in the Mormon church.

It's often abbreviated as DNC or DN, and it was first published in 1835.

It contains the revelations of 2 Joseph Smith and other eldest prophets contained under today's chapters.

And so there's a little bit there, the teachings of Ezra Taft Benson.

The Doctrine and Covenants, we've learned, documents concerning the eternal nature of families, the degrees of glory await men and women

after this life, and the organization of Christ's church on earth today.

Now, here's what's interesting is that in History of the Church, bottom six, no, right before page 161, it

says that the Book of Mormon is the most critical book of any book on earth, and it may get you closer to the precepts of God by following it and by aiming it on the

book.

Yes, it doesn't contain the stuff that's here.

Degrees of glory, eternal nature of families, awaiting men and women after this life, things like that.

It's just not in the Book of Mormon.

Now, if Mormonism is true and the Book of Mormon is the most critical book and men may get closer to God by it, then

why is D &C necessary?

Since it apparently is quite an addition to the Book of Mormon, which is supposed to be sufficient and

correct and able to get you closer to any book, why is D &C necessary?

I'll tell you why it's necessary.

Because as Mormonism grew and became more aberrant, they needed more revelations to justify their

aberrant doctrines.

So what had happened was Joseph Smith, early on, codified the Book of Mormon.

Basically, I believe he got it from Solomon Spalding, but that's another topic.

And so he wrote this thing down, and it contains, actually, a lot of Christianity in it.

One God and resurrection, grace, and some other things, but it's got some other stuff too that's not so good.

But nevertheless, it isn't until D &C, Pearl O 'Gray and Price, that you really start finding things that are really aberrant.

And that's because it came later on, after the Book of Mormon was codified, was written,

and then they had to reinterpret some of the words and phrases in the Book of Mormon to adjust to the idea of the

Book of Mormon.

All right, that's what I believe.

Now, things found in D &C by chapter.

The LDS Church is the only true church with whom God is pleased.

You know that.

That kind of statement always bothers me.

Our church is the only one that God's pleased with.

You know, first of all, they presuppose an earthly church with prophets,

apostles, just like the Roman Catholic Church does.

Whenever I find someone who says to me, this is my experience, 37 years of doing this,

whenever I find someone who says, we're in the true church, and they mean their salvation's tied up with the

true church, I would immediately go, cult, false.

And the reason is because it's not the only true church that we need to be concerned with.

It's our relationship with Jesus, the only true Savior.

And the Holy Spirit is supposed to bear witness of truth.

John 14, 26, John 15, 26 bears witness of Jesus.

The prophets bear witness of Jesus.

I think it's Acts 10, 43.

The Scriptures bear witness of Jesus, John 5, 39.

You know, everything's supposed to point to Jesus.

But what the false groups do is say, their church or their organization is the true one from God.

They need to be associated with that.

That's what the Marksmen are called.

Anyway, they teach John the Apostle.

He's still alive.

It has statements on the atonement of Jesus.

We can get into that later.

Independence, Missouri will be the future city of Zion.

Missouri.

You know, I'm reminded of the Joseph Witnesses.

Where is the headquarters of God?

You know, the Jews go, Jerusalem.

Right?

Who's saying it?

Jerusalem.

The Joseph Witnesses.

Where is the headquarters of God?

Brooklyn.

It just doesn't ring the same.

So the Mormons, you know, where's the headquarters of God?

Salt Lake City.

Or where's the future city of Zion?

It's going to be Independence, Missouri.

You can't show if that's true or not.

Anyway, New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri.

God has a body of flesh and bones, which the Bible says he does not.

Celestial marriage where couples are married for time and eternity.

I know that these things are important to Mormons.

Celestial marriage where couples are married for time and eternity.

Let me tell you guys something, if you're a Mormon.

I'm not knocking marriage.

I'm not knocking your love for your spouse and your desire to be with your spouse.

This is a wonderful thing.

And Mormons are good people.

They want to have families.

And there's nothing wrong with thinking that.

It's all good.

But the idea that you're going to be married forever is

sad.

And the reason it's sad is because you're missing out on God.

You're missing out on who God is.

And his magnificence.

Now, I'm not knocking marriage.

I'm happily married.

I've been married 30 years.

I have a good wife, except for her taste in men.

But that's not what heaven is.

Being with your wife, your husband.

That's not heaven.

It's being with God.

And I mean this from my heart.

Because you have a false view of who God is.

That's why you replace the intimacy with him with something else.

Of this earth and of this world.

And that's why you elevate celestial marriage.

Which essentially is eternal sex.

Now, if that's what you think heaven is going to be like,

then really you're no different than what they teach also.

In Islam, Muhammad taught that men have virgins in heaven.

Have sex with them.

Perpetual virgins.

However, they're not.

But that's what they teach.

And you can tell when a man -made religion hits a scene.

Because they want women.

And lots of wives.

And we know why that's the case.

Let's just move along.

The Pearl of Great Price is a scripture according to Mormon church.

It contains sentences from the Book of Moses, the Book of Abraham, Smith's translations, a portion of the Gospel of Matthew,

Smith's history, and the 13th -century Bible faith.

In July of 1835, this is important, an Irishman named

Michael Chandler brought an exhibit of four Egyptian mummies and some papyri to Kirkland, Ohio.

Then the whole Mormonism.

Papyri was a plant, a papyri plant.

And they would do things to it and make it flat.

And then they would lay it out, wet it, lay it out.

And then they would take other of the same material and do a perpendicular.

And then they would lay it out, scrape it, put some kind of oils and stuff on it.

And they would go back and forth like this and build a layer.

And that was papyri.

And they would use it for writing.

And so it lasts a long time.

Papyri contained Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Smith said that one of the papyri scrolls contained the Book of Abraham.

So the church bought the scrolls back then for $2 ,400.

That's a lot of money back then.

And as a prophesier of Ilda's church, Smith then translated the Book of Abraham by

the same power and authority he used when translating the Book of Mormon.

Now, this is important because if Joseph Smith is true, then

that means he had the power to translate the Book of Mormon from God.

Well, how do you test that?

You can't.

Why?

There's no place.

There's nothing.

So how do you test it?

Well, that's the thing about what's called non -falsifiability.

You can't prove it to be false because there's no evidence.

It's just that.

Well, the Book of Abraham and papyri were lost.

But they were found.

And so they were thought they were destroyed in

Chicago in a fire in 1871.

But at this time Egyptian hieroglyphics were undesirable.

So verification of the translation was not needed.

Eventually, the Pearl of Great Price, including the Book of Abraham, was voted into the LDS STEM boards in 1888.

All right.

In 1956, the papyri were rediscovered in one of the ballrooms of New York.

I went to the Museum of Art.

That means the very same ones that Joseph Smith had, his handwriting's on the back of them.

He had them.

So the Deseret News verified this.

Now, look at the underlying stuff.

Egyptian hieroglyphics had been decidable since the late 1800s.

They found what was called the Rosetta Stone.

And so now they're able to do this, able to verify.

How do they know it's the same one?

Because of things like this.

The graphics that are in the Book of Abraham are the same ones in the

papyri.

Remember, it has pictures here.

You can see the stuff down here, missing parts.

And so they had the same kind of thing here.

And he filled in the blanks.

This is it.

This is the same papyri.

So he had to fill it in.

And experts who know this stuff have said that he filled it in incorrectly.

He blew it.

So he filled it in.

And, well, anyway, they were able to be translated.

I'm not going to read a lot of this stuff here, but basically they're going to be translated.

So what the Mormons were saying back then is, look, we'll prove to you that Joseph Smith was a true prophet

because he had the ability to do this.

He had great faith.

And we've got the papyri, the Egyptian, the hieroglyphic.

People are going to translate it, and they're going to tell you it's true.

And, of course, it wasn't.

So what they had to do was come up with something called reform hieroglyphics.

There's no evidence of reform hieroglyphics.

You can just say it was a hieroglyphic from the Third World Empire of the Venetians.

You can say the same thing.

What evidence is there of it?

None.

It doesn't exist.

But this is what they would say because it didn't fit their – it didn't fit.

The facts didn't fit.

So when the facts don't fit your feelings, you change the fact that there's no facts.

Now, about 20 years or so ago, I was in San Diego.

A woman called me up, and she told me on the phone.

She said she did not want to debate me.

She was a Mormon.

I said, okay.

I guess that's what we're calling for.

What's up with that?

And she said – she was very cautious in what she said.

I knew she was going to tell us.

And she said one of her hobbies for years had been studying Egyptian

hieroglyphics.

And right away, I knew the problem.

She was quiet.

The way she was saying it was like this.

So I've been studying Egyptian hieroglyphics for many years.

There's a pause.

I gotcha.

And it's a long pause.

And I said, you found the problem.

There's a pause.

And there's this pause.

And she said, yes.

And I said, have you got it all figured out?

She said, yes, we have.

I said, what are you going to do?

I'm not debating it.

I'm not sitting on it.

I'm going to debate it.

I don't know.

I don't know how to do it.

I said, well, you know, I'm here to talk.

And I'm on your side.

And she never called back.

But I don't know what happened.

But she realized Joseph Smith was not telling the truth.

It's unfortunate that

Mormons

believe this stuff.

And I've been in contact with some Mormons recently and how they defend so hard

a lie from the devil.

And my heart is sad.

I wish there was a way to meet with the Mormons and just talk about who Jesus really is in the real gospel.

And the reason I want to do that is because, and I don't mean this in an insulting way, but only as a

man of God and damnation.

God is not an exalted man who has no plans, who has a body, flesh, and bones, who has sexual intercourse with his goddess wife.

That's not Christian.

That's what Mormonism teaches.

Anyway, back to the Prologue of Great Price.

And here's one more drawing.

I can read everything, but the point is that Joseph Smith

translated it and said certain things in the Barbarian, and he was so far off.

I remember reading an expert in

paraglyptics who compared his translation with the original.

And the comment was generally if someone were guessing, he might come close to a few

things.

He said he didn't even do that.

He was so far off.

It was obvious.

This guy said there's absolutely no way.

Well, here's the thing.

If Smith translated the book of Abraham with the same authority and ability he did with the book of Mormon, and it has

been proven that Smith was wrong about the book of Abraham, then what does that tell us about the book of Mormon?

The Mormon is not true.

You can't trust him.

Real simple.

It's as simple.

He said he translated the book of Abraham in the same way he did the book of Mormon.

We can prove that he got the book of Abraham wrong, so how can you believe he got the book of Mormon wrong?

Right.

Simple.

We can't.

So Mormonism is refuted by the facts.

So what's the response?

Special revelation, reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics.

And this is what it said here in the Pulitzer Prize student manual.

The greatest evidence of the truthfulness of the book of Abraham is not found in an analysis of physical evidence

nor historical background, but in prayerful consideration of its contents and power.

In other words, we admit that there are no facts to back this up.

We admit it doesn't work.

We admit the evidence contradicts everything, so we're going to ignore that and go back to feelings.

That's what's going on.

Back to feelings.

In prayerful consideration, doesn't that sound good?

Prayerful consideration.

It sounds spiritual.

It sounds holy.

It sounds godly.

But it's not true.

You don't find truth in prayerful consideration.

You see, you find truth in God's word.

If you say, yes, you do find it in prayerful consideration, then what about the Muslims?

What about the Jehovah's Witnesses?

Christian scientists?

What about those who hold to the other more than 100 derivations of the book of Mormon and different

Mormon -type groups who disagree with it?

Prayerful consideration leads to chaos.

What we need is the word of God.

You believe the word of God, but Jesus warned us in Matthew 24 -24, a false Christ and

false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the

elect, Matthew 24 -24.

If possible, they can lead even the elect astray.

What that means is the elect cannot be misled.

I'm going to give you a little theology.

The word elect here, I'm not sure exactly which word it is.

Probably eclektos.

There's three mainly Greek words used for elect, election,

choosing, things like that.

That's what elect is.

It's the same basic root.

Where God elects, God chooses, and we choose.

The three basic words are eclektos, eclege, eclemen.

And the word for church is ecclesia.

There's a relationship there.

So the elect are the chosen ones of God, Ephesians 1, 4, and 5, where it

says that God predestines us for salvation.

If he predestines us for salvation, that means he's chosen us to do that from the foundation of the world.

If he's chosen us from the foundation of the world, that means we have been given by the Father to the Son, John 6, 37,

38, 39, 40, which says that all of the Father's beauty will come to me and I will certainly not cast him out.

He will reign over the last day.

That's who the elect are, the ones chosen by God and given to the Father, but by the Father to the Son.

The elect cannot be deceived.

Cannot.

Now, why am I bringing this up?

Because the false Christs and false prophets are going to rise and deceive people.

Jesus said there aren't any more prophets.

Luke 16, 16, the law of the prophets were until John, until John the Baptist.

Now, what they'll say is there's prophets, as it was in the Old Testament sense, and they're able to write scripture and

teach God came from the planet.

If you become a god with secret handshakes, keep celestial law, go to the third level of celestial heaven, the church of the firstborn.

You can't have underwear.

Got to go through temple ceremony.

The veil is.

Put your hand through the veil.

Shake hands with God.

Someone who imitates God up there, even though in Matthew 27, when Jesus was

crucified, God destroyed that veil, which I always had a question for the Mormons.

Why didn't he put back what God destroyed?

He got rid of the veil.

They put it back.

The veil was a symbol of the separation between God and man, from the holy of holies to the holy place, and God

destroyed that as the blood of Christ that he shed in atonement right there.

But no, the Mormons put it back in their multiple temples all over so that people can enjoy that

separation from God all over again when they have fellowship with handshakes and hugs.

This is the dogma of false prophets.

I'm not deceived by it because I'm one of the elect.

How do I know I'm one of the elect?

Because I believe in the truth of God.

Real simple.

The Mormons are not.

We don't know if they're chosen to be saved later.

But if you believe in this stuff of Mormonism, you cannot be a Christian.

And if you die believing in Mormonism, you are on your way to eternal damnation because God is not an

exalted man from another planet.

God is white.

That makes him aliens.

A life form from another planet is an alien.

And you're bowing before an alien creature from another world and saying it's your God, and then you

worship that God.

Yet the Bible says there are no other gods.

Isaiah 43 .10, 44 .6, 44 .8, 45 .5.

We don't even know of any others.

Who in this world are we going to get into this?

I can go on and on, but I'll just keep going here.

The Mormon church structure.

We have the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Underneath them is the Quorum of the Seventy.

I've met the Seventy before.

Very interesting.

Stakes, then awards, bishops, and then members.

I was in Southern California at a swapping ministry I had every Saturday for two and a half years.

And this guy comes up.

I remember him.

And he was actually one of the Seventy.

And I didn't know that until we were talking.

And I said, I clued in.

He said, you're obviously Mormon.

I said, yeah.

We started talking.

And he was a little bit more slick in his presentation of things.

And I said, so are you going to be a bishop?

He kind of nodded his head no.

I said, what then?

I can tell.

He said, wait, you're one of the Seventy?

I just, yeah.

Really?

I asked him what his name was.

I forgot it.

And we had a discussion.

I said, well, why don't you sit down and talk about this?

He said, I'm not interested.

I said, you know what?

We can talk.

You've got someone here to study this stuff.

You're supposed to know Islam on the inside.

You weren't a Seventy.

It would be nice to have a polite conversation.

He said, no, I'm not interested.

And he just went his own merry way.

A lot of interesting things happened at that swap meet.

It was a great swap meet.

What's that?

It was a great swap meet.

It was a good meet.

I learned a great deal out there.

Yeah.

My hand leaves twice.

It's part of the law.

Yeah.

You know, you disappear for five, six days, come back, and it's just paper moving across the floor.

You walk out in front, and you're like, other than that.

So the first presidency, the two councilors, and the death of the president, the longest -serving member

of the total apostles.

I thought that was bonkers.

I mean, how do you determine spirituality?

The next guy in line.

I mean, the next guy in line.

Who's next?

Who's the next spiritual person?

Try it.

Who's the next one in line?

Who's the spiritual guy next?

How do you know?

Because he's next in line.

I've always thought that was a problem.

I mean, I'd be like, just because he's next in line doesn't mean he's the right person.

I mean, you know, in the Bible, that's not how it was always done.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

But that's it.

Next in line.

It reminds me of this heresy guy that I met at he was

church of something, the seventh something.

I spent a long time.

And he said he was in the preexistence.

And it wasn't Mormon.

And it was a different preexistence.

And there was a discussion in heaven, and he was in line

with other people.

And so someone asked, well, who would like to be the apostle to the North

American continent?

And he goes, I will.

I'll do it.

And he goes, okay, you're next.

No, I'm not joking.

I have a whole section on this on my website.

It really upset me when I did this.

I exposed all the doctrines in the change of name.

I'm sure it's in the seventh something or something.

But then we started to stop a cult early on.

But I mean, you know, the thing about being in line, I never

could get that.

Okay, so a lot of presidents.

I can name them all off.

Not a big deal.

Monson's now president.

16 of them.

Come on.

Here we go.

So let's get into, yeah, let's get into the Mormon doctrine.

Now, I have to confess something here.

Now, my wife already knows this.

And most of my acquaintances already know this as well.

That I have some screws loose.

And I've heard too many events.

But I can tell.

They're chuckling behind the camera.

They're going.

I have a particular enjoyment for heresy.

Now, it's kind of a weird thing.

I'm drawn to it.

And I don't know.

I'm made to read it.

Made to study it because I can see so clearly it's so bad.

And then I want to fix it.

And that's the male ending.

It's broken.

I've got to fix it.

That's the story in heresy.

Here's the fix.

And so I think it's kind of an anal retentive kind of an Asperger's autism thing combined

with male mentality of fixing things.

In spiritual stuff, when I see heresy, I'm like, whoa, yeah, heresy.

And, you know, it's the same kind of thing I want to do when I go to a computer store and there's a big motherboard in the box.

And I take it and rub it in my chest.

I did that once in public with my wife.

She didn't turn around and keep walking.

I'm following her.

Honey, honey, was there something I said?

You know, you get a little hard to survive this kind of work.

Yeah.

So the thing is, I really enjoy heresy.

And obviously God made this in me so that I'd be drawn to do this kind of a

thing and fix.

In other words, I'm called to do what I do.

So anyway, so Mormon doctrine teaches that God is an exalted man.

It teaches that there are countless gods that exist in the universe.

And our God used to be a man on another world who became a god by following the laws and ordinances

of his God on that planet.

He then came to this world and populated it with his godless wife.

This is Mormonism.

Now, when I was at the same swamping ministry, a guy came up, and I still remember this.

And he said, what are you guys doing?

Oh, we're passing out literature about religious groups, Christianity, Mormon, non -Christian, like Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses.

Boy, that's kind of arrogant of you.

No, but it's still true.

That's what we're doing, you know.

Why would you do that?

I said, well, because then you're false.

He goes, yeah, right.

I said, look, Mormonism, for example, teaches God used to be a man on another planet, became a

god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that planet, brought one of his wives with him, exalted her, and goddess of it.

They came to this world in the spirit realm.

He's got a body, flesh, and bones about six feet tall.

She's got a body, flesh, and bones.

They kick into heaven like spirit babies in heaven.

And then they become a good Mormon.

Go to the church, pay a full 10 % tithe of your income to the church.

You get a temple recommend.

You go to the temple.

They're doing secret handshakes and secret hugs with their underwear.

You get a new name.

Hopefully what happens is you get to become a god on a planet by shaking hands with God in the afterlife.

And he said, you're lying.

I said, no, I'm not lying.

I'm not lying.

It's what I teach.

And he actually said to me, no one's that stupid to believe that.

You're making it up.

I go, but it's right here.

He goes, get with me.

I go, well, I'm not joking.

Believe it.

And then I tried, I couldn't believe it, I tried to convince him of Mormonism.

What am I doing here?

You know, that's not right.

And so, yeah, it was going to be a weird moment, you know.

And so he wouldn't believe it.

I remember thinking that the back of the hand is walking away.

So George Joseph Smith said God was a man.

This is what he said.

He doesn't think I'm joking.

Look, I went back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of being God is.

God himself was once, as we are now, and is an exalted man.

What was I saying?

That's what he said.

Teaching the prophet Joseph Smith, page 345.

That's what Mormonism teaches.

This is Joseph Smith's words.

He started Mormonism.

Okay?

How about this, page 345 and 6?

We've imagined and supposed that God was God in all eternity.

I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see.

He was once a man like us.

Yay.

That God, the father of us, all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.

People say you're making this up.

I'm not making it up.

Joseph Smith is the one who got me started in apologetics.

In 1980, someone read me a quote from him.

We'll get to it later.

I started studying it.

So God had a father.

If Jesus Christ was the son of God and John discovered that God, the father of Jesus, had a father, you

may suppose he had a father also.

And then look at the last one there.

That which is without body and purse is nothing.

There is no God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones.

So now God has flesh and bones.

That's just not going to work.

Keep going.

Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church, he says,

He, God, is our father, the father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are.

Now the next quote, God is not everywhere.

Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere.

It is not so.

Here's another thing he said.

Yes, he was once a man like you and I are and was once upon an earth like this.

This is a documentation in the first and second prophet of the Mormon church.

Wilford Woodruff, the former president.

God is growing in knowledge.

God is increasing in knowledge.

If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea

would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind.

God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion and will do so world without end.

So there are logical problems with this.

I mean, I could sit here, go to the chalkboard and talk about actual potential infinites, actual infinites,

progressions and things like this.

It's logically impossible.

But God is, just think this way.

God is increasing in knowledge.

Is it possible then he might, you know, a million years ago, dog, the handshakes are wrong.

Or he might, you know, learn something new.

Is he progressing?

You know, there's a lot of ways to demolish this.

A lot.

But Mormons, no offense, Mormons are not known for intellectual discussions on these kind of topics.

They hide from it.

Because logic works against them.

Anyway, there's a famous quote.

It's called the Lorenzo Snow Comet.

As man is now, God once was.

As God is now, man may be.

Spencer W. Kimball, 12th president, said that men with keen intelligence got

together at Nicaea and created a God.

Not pray for wisdom or revelation like he was there.

Actually, I've been to Nicaea.

I've been in the building.

And so he knows that they didn't pray for wisdom.

They didn't pray for God.

They claimed no revelation from the Lord.

They were reading the word of God.

They had a revelation about the Lord.

They made it just like a political party would do.

Really?

How did he know that this is nothing but just historical

reconstructivism in order to make yourself look good?

That's all that's going on here.

There's no documentation from these guys on this problem.

There's none.

Just making statements.

And the Mormons go, yeah, it's all a cliff.

She wasn't even there.

Sick fraud.

And out of their own moralized purity of God, which is still worshipped by the great majority of Christians.

I think my humor is one of the ways I cope with dealing with this.

I could seriously lose my damn teeth.

We're ready.

John, get rid of this, then.

Take it off.

So we're on that.

Can you hear me okay?

Well, it might take a bit to go through the system.

We're going to come back to it when we fit.

But it is on.

Yes, we can see the mic.

It's working.

We're going to start.

Okay.

All right.

So we kind of lost our sound there.

Now we're on this camera here.

But it just went dead.

Yeah, it's dead.

I think I'll just get a replacement.

I'll get another mic system.

I got something that will work.

All right.

So the Trinity is a monster according to Joseph Smith.

It says, many men may say there's one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all one

God.

I say that is a strange God.

Three in one and one in three is a curious organization.

All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism.

He would make the biggest God in the world.

He would be a wonderfully big God.

He would be a giant or a monster.

So what he's doing is in incredible arrogance

pontificating and saying that the doctrine of the Trinity is a monstrous God.

He has no clue what he's talking about.

I will debate any Mormon.

I don't care who it is.

As long as it's qualified.

I don't care who.

You get a good, qualified Mormon, I'll debate him on the doctrine of the Trinity and he won't even tell me.

Period.

Is the Trinity doctrine a monstrous doctrine or not?

And I would debate it with any Mormon.

Of course, no one's going to take me up on that.

Mormons just don't do that kind of thing.

They make statements and they don't back them up.

A 70s member said the Godhead is three gods.

The ancient prophets knew that the Godhead consisted of three separate and distinct personages, each of whom had indefinite work to

perform, and yet they all work in perfect unity as one.

The three gods constituted the Holy Trinity.

John Woodsoe said the Bible, if read fully and intelligently, teaches the Holy

Trinity is composed of individual gods.

I mean, all you've got to do is read the Bible.

Go to Isaiah 43, 44, 45.

Just go to Isaiah 43, 44, 45.

Just read.

Underline where it says there's no God before, no God after.

He doesn't even know of any other gods.

The standard response by the Mormons is, of this world, Matt.

And I say, where does it say that?

You know, if you go to Genesis chapter 3, verses 1 through 6, Satan comes to Eve and says, did God really

say?

That ain't God's word.

Her response was to modify the word of God, which she quoted, change it just a little bit, and add the words or

touch it in regard to the fruit, eating the fruit or not.

Once the modification was done, then Satan could get in and contradict.

So this is what happens.

One of the things that cults do is they will make a verse in the opposite of what it actually says.

So, for example, God says he doesn't even know of any other God.

Okay?

Doesn't even know of any other God.

So what they'll say is, of this world.

Oh.

So now he does know of another God.

Because of this world, no, but he doesn't know of others.

So now the text says the opposite of what it says.

And how should God word it if he wants to say there aren't any other gods?

He would say things like, there are no gods beside me.

I don't even know of any other.

That's what you say.

But because Mormonism says you become a God, we'll get to that in a bit, and the Trinity is three

separate gods, and then don't forget there's God the Father, the Goddess Mother, Jesus is

a God, the Holy Spirit's a God.

That's four.

Don't forget.

There's the God who resurrected the devil.

That's five gods right there.

So at the very least, you've got five gods.

You've got to deal with that.

No, only in this world.

Except the Bible says the God of this world is blind to the minds of the unbelievers.

2 Corinthians 4, verses 3 and 4.

The God of this world is blind to the minds of unbelievers.

As I mentioned before about becoming gods, that's what the church teaches.

This is teaching from the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 346, 347.

Paragraph 55 here.

Here, then, is eternal life, to know the only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves,

and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely by

going from one small degree to another, and from one small capacity to a great one.

Doesn't that sound good?

Now let me tell you something.

Aside from being big regenerate, being a Christian who knows the good God, if I were... I can

imagine what it's like to be a pagan, because I can remember back when I was a...

I was sort of ashamed of my...

If someone said, you know what?

You can become a god.

I'm almost there now anyway.

Yeah, it wouldn't take much more.

Make it official.

That's what he said.

Yeah.

Come on.

Come on.

So...

You know, it's just ego.

It's pride.

It's become a god.

Become a god.

So, Saturday, if anybody wants to, I'm going to be going to the goddess

festival in Boise.

The goddesses.

The goddesses.

The goddess festival.

There's ladies there.

I've been there before.

And watch.

Because you don't want to offend goddesses.

A normal woman is problematic.

But a goddess woman?

It's upsetting.

I mean, just stay away.

So, you know, I've been there before.

You can ask questions.

There's a lot of goddesses there.

There's lots of goddesses.

And then they dance.

And they do...

What's the...

Belly dancing.

Thank you.

They do that.

They have a painting.

They have some nice stuff there.

And they're nice people until you start asking questions.

And then they stop you.

But I always want to ask them, for your goddess, here's some goddess...

Can you show me some goddess stuff?

You know, some goddess stuff.

I mean, I want to see something beautiful.

No, we just teach.

Teach what?

There are goddesses.

Well, do you have any goddess abilities?

You know, like, do you materialize it?

Turn me into a frog or something?

No, we're just divine.

Can you show me your divinity?

We're just divine.

Go away.

But I'm still here.

You know, I got questions.

Do they get money?

I get people money.

They sell stuff.

But I can just say, look, there's only one goddess that I married to her.

What?

Yeah.

Excuse me.

I'm just trying to get out of the hole.

I've dug myself in the hole.

I'm not scoring any points.

I'm not scoring any points.

So Joseph Fielding, the 10th president, said, Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods

and men by obeying the commandments of God.

Can you believe this?

And keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he himself will become

a god.

What?

Keeping the whole law.

You know, how do you keep the whole law?

It's the intention of the heart.

It's the intention of the heart.

That's what the law is.

If I were to slap you, is it good or bad?

It depends.

If I slap you because I don't like your face, it's not good.

If I slap you because I'm trying to get that slimy venomous vulgar beetle off of you, you know, to save you, that's

okay.

See, the intention is the issue.

So the intention of keeping the law, that's where it counts.

Now, that means that your heart's perfect.

But I've had women say, no, it doesn't have to be perfect.

It's just got to be really good and sincere because God knows we're trying.

Well, Isaiah, excuse me, Deuteronomy 27, 26 says, you've got to keep all of the law.

There's no if, ands, or buts.

There's no close calls.

You have got to keep that law perfectly.

And they don't worry about these tangents.

But, you know, they're talking about actually keeping the commandments of God.

Let me tell you something.

Anybody who believes that you can keep the commandments of God, you're an

arrogant fool.

That's it.

Yeah.

I keep all the commandments.

I never screw up.

I never mess up.

Is that a bad word?

No, it's okay.

Because if I said it, it can be bad.

I cannot.

Are they talking about the law and commandments?

Everything.

What they're talking about in the law.

Is all of the law.

All of it.

Now, they wouldn't say you don't need the sacrificial system anymore.

But they certainly have a priesthood.

They certainly have some other stuff we'll get into maybe later.

But the thing is, you've got to keep all the law.

You can't.

Senator W. Kimball, 12th president, said, in each of us, there's the potentiality to become a god.

Pure, holy, true, influential, powerful, independent of earthly forces.

If I wanted to start a cult, this is the kind of stuff I would say.

I would say, you are wonderful.

You have the potentiality to become great.

Pure, holy, true, influential, powerful, and independent of earthly forces.

People go, oh, yes.

That's right.

Tell me what I want to hear.

You know, that's the appeal of the enemy to the

flesh and the pride of men.

Especially men.

Become a god.

And then you get to call forth one of your wives.

Now, I'm 16, but I remember my teens.

I know what the guys are thinking when they got more than one wife.

Can we hurry up with this now, please?

Oh, we know what's going on.

That's why you got to remember this.

LDS Church manual says, can you see the reasonable basis of belief that you can become a

god like he is by progressing here and hereafter?

No.

I can't see the reasonableness of that.

What about Horsey and Whitney?

Man is to become a god.

The difference between the human and the divine is a matter of education and development.

Wow.

This is just arrogance.

There's only one god.

Men created before and men created after.

That's it.

I mean, how can anybody believe this stuff?

How can anybody believe it?

I can tell you how.

By not being a true Christian.

By not being regenerate.

By not having a true god in you.

But by having a false god in you.

A false god who teaches how great you are.

How wonderful you are.

Who appeals to your flesh.

Appeals to your pride.

That's the god of this world.

Who blinds the mind of the unbelievers so they will not believe the gospel.

That's what's happening.

And Mormon doctrine teaches polytheism.

It affirms the existence of many gods.

You guys can read this stuff.

Let's just go into it.

Entering the Mormon view.

And now behold, this is what the book of Mormon says.

2 Nephi 31 21.

And now behold, that this is a doctrine of Christ and the only and true God of

the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God.

I wish the Bible was as clear as this.

I wish this was in the Bible.

That'd be great.

It'd make defending the Trinity even easier.

Mosiah 15 3 -5.

Let's get halfway down there.

And they are one God, yea, the very eternal Father of Heaven and of the Earth and thus the flesh becoming subject to the

Spirit or to the Son or the Son to the Father being one God.

Alma 11 28 -29.

Now Zerub said, is there more than one God?

And the answer, no.

And Ether 2a has a gospel.

Forever he should serve him, the true and only God.

The true and only God.

I'm going to get my joke in.

That's what they used to knock people out of Ether.

You know what I'm going to explain to you?

What does Isaiah 44 -6 say?

Thus says the Lord, now that's actually in Hebrew, Yahweh or Jehovah.

Thus says Jehovah, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Jehovah the Most.

I am the first and I am the last and there is no God, there is no Elohim beside me.

Isaiah 44 -8, is there any Elohim, any God beside me?

Or is there any other rock?

I know of none.

Isaiah 45 -5 I am Yahweh or I am Jehovah.

And there is no other beside me.

There is no Elohim.

There is no God.

That's what he says.

Now there's a lot to deal with

here.

And I think we're in a good place to take a break.

We're going to get into the issue of Jesus.

But, you know, lately I've been driving by the

morning chapels and stuff.

And I see the cars parked in front of me.

It's not going to be effective.

But I want to go in there and just not muscle my way in

and get in front of the church.

But I want to muscle my way in and get in front of the church.

And just beg them to believe in the true and only God.

And to not believe in this false doctrine of Joseph Smith.

They would carry me out.

They wouldn't beat me up.

You know, they'd just get out.

They'd be nice about it.

Mormons are nice people.

And the

consequence of that is eternal damnation.

Mormons are going to go to hell forever.

Unless they repent, believe in God, the mother planet, the goddess wife, the sex, and the expiry date.

They have a human body so they can become gods.

And everything you believe in is based on what Joseph Smith said.

Everything the Mormons said.

And the deception is incredibly strong.

I'm just one guy.

And we're just individuals here.

We can't do it all.

But if, by God's grace, he would allow us to just leave even one more person

out of Mormonism, that's our hardest desire.

And I didn't have God before.

I'm reminded of that movie in World War II where the SDA

guy went in and saw the movie recently.

Hacksaw Ridge.

And he's up there and just, Lord, let me save one more person.

And he would just take these people who were injured and lower them down on a rope so they could be saved.

Even to Japanese people.

Just one more.

Just one more.

Just one more.

Just one more.

Because it's an infinitely long time.

And I don't hate Mormons.

No Mormons wronged me.

I've been threatened by a couple for just church.

That doesn't represent Mormon church.

It just wows everyone and stuff.

I was never a Mormon or anything like that.

Wasn't baptized.

Wasn't molested by any Mormons.

Wasn't anything.

It's just simply an issue of it's just not biblical.

And I know where Mormons are going.

It's buried in my testimony.

The power and the authority of Jesus Christ given to me at my

salvation when he himself came to me in person.

Couldn't see him.

Couldn't touch him.

Because my face was to the ground.

Agonized.

Weeping.

Tears.

In the presence of pure holiness.

He's right there.

I know who he is.

And I've been in his presence.

And I know that Mormonism can't be true because they don't know him.

They know something else.

A false teacher.

A false gospel.

A false Christ.

And no one is liable to be in the presence of Jesus.

My testimony tonight is that there's only one God in all existence in all place, in all

time.

He's a Trinity.

And the second person of the Trinity became one of us.

And did what we could not.

Get along perfectly.

In his intention.

In his actions.

And then went to the cross.

And in that horrible death bore and was sinned his body on the cross.

He died away.

He rose from the dead three days later.

And the only thing left for us to do is receive what he did.

Trust in what he did.

To do otherwise is to reject God.

And to reject his offering.

It's either all Jesus or it's not.

Amen?

Jesus did everything we need.

You don't add to it.

You don't get saved after all you can do.

Second Nephi 25.

Trust in Christ alone.

And I would invite Mormons, if the burden of

becoming a God and keeping to us too long is too much, if you realize

and are sincere to your own heart, you're not as good as you think.

I mean, reach out to

Jesus.

He said, come to me, all who are heavy laden and all who rest.

Matthew 11, 28.

Luke 10, 22.

He says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it.

He has all authority in heaven and earth.

Matthew 28, 18.

He forgives sins.

Luke 5, 20.

So go to the one who has all and ask him to forgive you of all of your

sins.

You see, sin is breaking the law of God.

And if he kept the law, he can give you the righteousness he's had.

He can give it to you freely.

By faith.

That's why it says in Philippians 3, 9.

We have a righteousness that's not our own.

The righteousness that comes from God.

That's real Christian not self exalting righteousness

of sufficient sincerity and works to become a God.

I just ask that, you know, if you're a Mormon, that you would turn yourself to Christ of Scripture.

And even in the Book of Mormon, 3rd Nephi 19, 18 you pray to Jesus.

And ask Jesus.

Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins.

Ask him.

Ask Jesus to do that.

Depend on him completely.

Not in your own words.

Not in your own sincerity.

But in him alone.

And that's what the truth is in Christ.

That's the gospel.

Amen.

Alright, so we'll pray.

Close this out.

Take a break.

We'll come back to the Q &A.

Lord, thank you for this time.

And Lord, just thank you for the people here.

And I hope that the listeners are blessed.

Thank you.

Praise you.

And ask that you would save people out of the darkness of Mormonism and bring them to the light of good truth.

And find salvation in you, Christ.

Amen.

All those quotes and all those things that Joseph says, you know, he also said

that the moon was inhabited by people that looked like Quakers.

So, we really shouldn't be surprised what he could come up with.

He said what?

The sun was inhabited.

Oh, did he?