May 9, 2017 Show with Terry Mortenson on “Searching for Adam: Genesis & the Truth About Man’s Origin (Part 2)”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity

living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

ninth day of May 2017.

And I'm delighted to have returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Terry

Mortensen, who has his Master of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical Divinity

School, his PhD in History of Geology from Coventry University.

He's a historian of geology and researcher for Answers in Genesis, a lecturer

on the creation evolution controversy in 25 countries since the late 1970s,

university campus ministry leader in the United States and Eastern Europe with Campus Crusade for

Christ, and the author of many articles and books, including The Great Turning Point, and he's

an editor and contributor to Coming to Grips with Genesis.

Today we are going to continue a discussion we began a couple of months ago on the

theme of his book, Searching for Adam, Genesis and the Truth about Man's Origin,

and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. Terry Mortensen.

Well good to be with you Chris.

And I also want to introduce to you my two co -hosts.

Today we have a special visiting co -host, Charlie Liebert, who is founder and

director of sixdaycreation .com.

It's great to have you back in the studio Charlie.

Thank you Chris, great to be here.

And also a more regular co -host of mine is in studio again, the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

I'm here again, hello.

And anybody who would like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Terry

Mortensen on the controversy between the young earth creationists and

the old earth creationists, or specifically about Adam, you may join us by sending an

email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live

outside of the good old USA.

And first of all, Dr. Mortensen, how did you get

so intrigued by this whole issue of the creation

versus evolution debate and also the debate on the age of the earth that even Christians are

involved in, in opposition to one another?

And when did this come to fruition and you becoming actually a researcher

and so on and an author on the subject.

For Answers in Genesis?

Well, Chris, I grew up in a churchgoing family in southern Minnesota.

In 1971, I became a typical college student and got into the party,

vulgar language, and it was in the

beginning of my spring semester or spring quarter

that called me up on my dorm phone and wanted to know if I wanted to

get together and talk about Christ.

And I did, and he led me to Christ.

And one of the first questions I had was, well, what about evolution?

I was introduced to a couple of books by two giants in the creation movement, Dr. Henry

Morris and Dr. Duane Gish, both of whom have gone on to be with the Lord, and it really opened my

eyes.

And for me, it was like a shark smelling blood.

I started to read everything I could and joined staff at Campus Crusade and

continued to study on my own and went over to Eastern Europe, served there for 10 years up

until the fall of communism and then went to seminary.

And by then, I

impact of evolutionary thinking and on people's lives, especially

causing them to be totally closed to the gospel, thinking that science...

And I am safe to say that you are a six -day creationist,.

A young earth creationist who believes that God created the earth in six literal 24 -hour

periods, correct?

And, you know, we already have a listener from Bakersfield, California, who

has written, and I normally don't take questions this quickly into the discussion, but I think it may help

set the stage for the rest of the program.

Daniel in Bakersfield, California says, hello Chris, my question for Dr. Mortensen

is, is an individual out of the realm of orthodoxy if they do not believe

in a literal Adam?

Isn't a literal Adam an origin and original sin?

Two of the bedrock beliefs of the Christian faith.

That's Daniel in Bakersfield, California.

Yes, Daniel, I would say that a denial of a literal Adam and a literal fall is

definitely hetero

teaching.

It's a serious belief in

Jesus as they're

denying that, and it makes it very confusing for lots of Christians.

Well, thank you, Daniel.

And guess what, Daniel, you have won.

A free copy of the book we are addressing today, Searching for Adam,

Genesis and the Truth about Man's Origin, and this is by our guest Dr. Terry Mortensen,

and it is being provided to you by our friends at Master Books, and it is being

shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CV for Cumberland Valley,

BBS for Bible Book Service dot com, CVBBS .com.

Thank you very much for contributing your question to the program today.

Now, taking something from Daniel's question,

would the majority of, or should I say, would not the majority of

Christians who are involved in the debate between

Old Earth and Young Earth and those that have some

belief in theistic evolution, those from both the scientific and

the theological realm, especially those who have been published on the issue, would not the majority of them

believe in a literal Adam except that they believe that he,

especially in the scenario of those who believe in theistic evolution,

and I'm not even sure they all would agree with this, but they would say that he evolved from

some lower form of life other than human, but don't they in the majority believe that Adam was a literal

figure?

Well, the word literal is a little bit difficult.

I would say that most of them would say that Adam is

how he came into existence with various theistic

evolutionists or various strands of Old Earth creation, but

most of them I think would say...

Yeah,

I actually, believe it or not,.

Was taught that in my science class in grammar school in a parochial Catholic school.

Yep.

I'm not saying that the nuns would have said that, but our science teacher mocked the

idea of Adam and Eve, said it was nothing but a fairy tale, and said that we came from apes and that the.

Account that we read in Genesis is pure myth.

But I would say that a growing number of

or denying some or many of the

details in Genesis 1, 2, 3 about Adam and the fall,

playing fast and loose.

With the details in the text.

Would they be saying then that Adam is not the father of all mankind?

Is that where they go off?

This is Charlie Liebert speaking right now.

Yeah, well, I think most of them

would say that once you have a historical Adam, then everybody after that is

descended.

You know, the scientific community is now saying that we didn't come from two people.

We came from a thousand or ten thousand

times of

the opposite gender.

To come up with thousands of them is really bizarre, but people like John Stott in

England and others believed in pre -Adamite

creatures, the image of God.

As ancestors of Adam, you mean?

They preceded Adam, and God just chose one of those pre -Adamites

and breathed into his nostrils.

And he became Adam.

Right.

Well, yeah, I'm not defending that understanding of it, but would it be acceptable to you,

not preceding Adam obviously, but would it be acceptable to you that there were strange

human -like creatures existing in the days of after Adam, obviously to get the

chronology correct in the creation story?

Is that in any way offensive to your sensibilities as a young earth creationist?

Because even the book of Genesis, as you know,.

Does describe some strange beings.

Well, it describes, in a difficult passage, at the beginning of Genesis 6, but

it doesn't change the fact that all people are descended from Adam.

There were no other human beings before them, and there's just

no biblical basis for saying that there were other humans who were not descended from Adam and Eve.

We have a listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama,

Ted, who was for years a regular listener to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, and we haven't

heard from him for quite a while.

Welcome back to Iron Sharp and Zion, Ted.

And Ted from Tuscaloosa, Alabama says, as a believer who is undecided on this matter,

but who leans toward the old earth view, I am often

asked if I believe in a literal Adam, as if this is some sort of gotcha question, the

assumption being that a literal Adam is mutually exclusive of an old

earth creation position.

I think he meant to say young earth position.

But anyway, could your guest comment on this, please?

Yes, there are people who believe in an old earth, who believe all the

details about it.

They believe that Eve was literally made from the rib of Adam, that they fell,

that Eve was a talking serpent empowered by

Satan.

So there are old earth theologians and scientists who would believe all the

details about Adam.

They just reject the biblical teaching about the age of the earth, the creation days, that

they deny that the genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11 have any chronological value, and they would

deny that Noah's flood was a global year -long catastrophic flood.

So I would say then that they are picking and choosing which

take as straight to interpret in some kind of non -literal

figurative sense.

Well, thank you, Ted, and guess what, Ted, you.

Have also won a free copy of Searching for Adam, Genesis and the Truth about Man's

Origin, and perhaps the next time you write in you'll be a young earth creationist.

And thanks again, and I look forward to hearing from you more often.

You used to write in almost every week, as I remember, and it'll be nice to

hear from you regularly again.

And thanks for your mailing address.

We'll have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, ship that out to you, God willing,

within a week or so.

And we also thank Master Books again for providing these copies of the books to give out.

Here's another great question that is, I think, best asked

early on.

Casey, who's originally from the Philippines and now lives in Kannapolis, North Carolina, he says,

what are some of the best arguments against the idea that mankind is descended from apes through

evolution?

And also, what are the best evidences that Adam and Eve were the first two human beings, just

like Genesis describes?

I don't know if he's speaking about as far as biblical references or science or

both, so he doesn't make a distinction there.

Yeah, well, that's a wide open question.

I give a whole lecture on that, both the science and the biblical side of things.

But Genesis 7, that God made

man, it says God made man from the dust of the earth

and man became a living being or a living creature, or the King James says living

translations of the same Hebrew words.

And a lot of people, including a number of scholars, are not paying very careful

attention to that verse because it clearly says that God made man from the dust,

added the divine breath, and that became a living creature.

And those words, living creature, are a translation of two Hebrew words, nefesh hayah, and they're

also translated in Genesis 1, Genesis 2, and Genesis 9 to refer to land

animals, sea creatures, and birds.

They are also living creatures, but they're not made in the image of God.

So the Bible is crystal clear.

God did not take a living creature and it became a man.

He created a man and it became a living creature.

So that verse absolutely rules out theistic evolution for the origin of

Adam's body supernaturally.

And then when we get to Genesis 2, 22, and the creation of Eve, now in this case, Eve was

created from a pre -existing living creature.

That's Adam.

Harmonize that verse describing supernatural surgery.

Chapter 3, I think it's verse 21, says Eve is the mother of all the living.

And 1 Corinthians 15 says Adam was the first.

We're on this.

And there's no way to harmonize that with evolution.

As far as the science side, I

imagine after and

a DVD lecture I've done,

Ape Man, the Grand Illusion, I

use quotes and examples and

we're just being deceived by art and imagination.

And in the book coming, two chapters on the

fossil evidence on that issue, and one chapter by

two geneticists showing that the genetics

confirms not only that man is unique and not descended from ape -like

creatures, but the mutation rates that are measured in

the human genome and compared with the mutation

rates of human

teachers.

So it was

motivated

among

evangelical scholars.

I'd like to make a comment about that.

This is Charlie Liebert again.

In that chapter, chapter 10, I've read that twice, and I think that's an

incredible thing to recommend to Christian scientists, to say, look, if you really want to look at this and your old

earth or your theistic evolution, read this chapter because the evidence in here is quite.

Compelling on genetics.

Yeah, it is.

It is.

And Nathaniel Jensen has a PhD from Harvard, and Jeffrey Tompkins has

a PhD from Clemson and did genetics research at

10 years.

These are not, you know, taxi drivers who don't really know what they're talking about.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

No offense to all you taxi drivers out there.

Nothing against taxi drivers, but most of them don't have a PhD in genetics and biology.

Well, see, that actually brings me to a question that I have for you.

I have heard from folks in the old earth side of

this debate that the young earth position

is bankrupt when it comes to those who are genuinely

accredited scientists, such as geologists and paleontologists

and people such as that, that those that have the higher degrees of

education who are more established and recognized and lauded as true

scientists are not to be found amongst the young earth crowd.

Now, how much of an exaggeration is that?

Well, that's a gross exaggeration of reality.

The fact of the matter is the Creation Research Society has 700 members

that have either the field of arts five or six

PhDs,

and you would be interested to an

organization just in Phoenix, Arizona, a lawsuit

against the Grand Canyon National Park.

And I think the Department of the Interior would get us

today, because through Freedom of Information Act is

defending freedom.

Lawyers have found a lot of evidence viewpoint discrimination

by the National Park Service, denying Dr. Andrew Snelling, who has a

PhD in geology from a major university in Sydney,

denying him a permit to do geological research in the Grand Canyon.

And so what's what argument that you

is simply an ad hominem attack against people

denying the right to earn that

PhD at a secular university completely

dominated by evolution to get a

university.

And any

evolution that

they are

denied

even

opportunity

to get their research published.

And that's why they technical peer reviewed journals

to get their research out there in the in the public domain.

How about specifically in the area or the field of geology?

Are there a lot of prominent respected geologists who have

their doctorates and so on who are young earth.

Creationists?

They're not a lot.

Dr. Andrew Snelling on our staff would be one.

You've just mentioned to me before we began the program, Dr. Taz

Walker, Dr. Steve Austin, who got his PhD at Penn State.

And here's an interesting view conflict is all about.

When Dr. Austin, the

formation of

Coleman, whenever he wrote anything for

creationist magazine, and after he graduated, after he got his

PhD, he then went public where he got his PhD

and signed off on his PhD, tried to take

his PhD away from him when he found out he was a creationist.

Wow.

There's a book by Jerry

Beek, three PhDs,

Slaughter of the Dead or Lost

Tenure or Lostness.

Yeah, I've had Jerry on the program and, and in fact, have scheduled for him to return in the not so

distant future.

And I didn't.

I was unaware of that book.

I'd love to have him address that as well as the book on Darwin that he has just

recently had published.

Yeah, and

the

academic creationists

and

the

academic training, the universities

and you're

asserting they could not.

It's an assault.

It's an assault on those academic institutions.

Yes.

Well, I want our listeners to know that I didn't even I wasn't even aware of this lawsuit

that you just mentioned, that the Alliance Defending Freedom is involved in.

In fact, I hired or got the Alliance Defending Freedom

to represent my friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries years

ago to defend Dr. White's rights to

distribute the video of a debate that he had with ACLU

attorney, who is now the president of Americans United

for Separation of Church and State, Barry Lynn.

And this is back in the days when it was called the Alliance Defense Fund.

And Dr. Lynn was so humiliated after

suffering an enormous loss, an obvious, palpable loss

in his debate with Dr. White on is homosexuality compatible with biblical Christianity, that he

threatened to sue Dr. White if he distributed the video of that debate.

And so the Alliance Defending Freedom said that they would be more than

happy to represent Dr. White.

And they told him to file a suit and beat Barry Lynn to the punch, not

for money, but just for the rights to distribute the video.

And Barry Lynn nor his legal counsel showed up at the hearing.

So the judge granted in favor of Dr. White and Alpha and Omega Ministries.

Yeah.

But that's a great organization there.

But I didn't even know about that suit and providential.

It was just announced today, so that's why.

Wow.

Well, this is very providential that we even have you on the show today.

But next, actually in two weeks from now, on the 24th and the

25th of May, I have a back -to -back program

on old Earth versus young Earth creationism.

I have on the 24th of May, Greg Davidson defending an old Earth

position.

And then the following day, I have Taz Walker defending a young Earth

position.

And both are geologists and both are Christians who take a polar

opposite view on the age of the Earth.

So I hope that you all make a point to tune in those two days.

Mark your calendars for the 24th and 25th of May, 4, 6 p .m. Eastern Time.

And you are familiar with both Greg Davidson and Taz Walker?

Yes, I am.

Could you give our listeners just a brief description of both of them?

Well, Taz Walker is at

Creation Ministries International, and I've known Taz for a long time.

He's a very careful student of the rocks.

Greg Davidson is a, I

think it's Mississippi, I can't

remember.

And I believe he's the head of the geology department.

The evangelical theologians

together, I

know him

from that.

And I also, Dr. Snelling and I team taught the young Earth perspective

for a seminary out in California a couple of years ago, where Greg Davidson and Ken Wolgamuth

presented the old Earth view.

It was a one -week modular course.

So I've had interaction with him as well.

Well, we're going to a break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S

-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages, God willing.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you.

For many years to come.

I am Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wng .org forward slash Iron Sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit

card required.

Visit World News Group at wng .org forward

slash Iron Sharpens today.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young

people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help.

Keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs.

At BatteryDepot .com, they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries you

can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot

.com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to BatteryDepot .com.

That's BatteryDepot .com.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. Terry Mortensen, and we are discussing his book,

Searching for Adam, Genesis, and the Truth about Man's Origin.

This is a discussion we began a couple of months ago.

So this is basically part two of our discussion on that theme.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

And we have somebody who has emailed us off topic briefly here.

Sterling Vanderwerker, pastor of Shepherd Fellowship in Greensboro, North Carolina, says,

glad to hear you are back after your overhaul, Charlie Liebert.

And perhaps, Charlie, this would be an opportunity for you to let our listeners know why you were.

Absent from the program for quite a while.

Yes.

On March 3rd, I had a heart attack and scheduled surgery for bypass on March 20th.

I had that surgery on the 20th, and I'm six weeks out now and things have gone very well.

I attribute that mostly to the prayers for my healing.

The tubes that you have in you for drainage in your body typically come out after 48 hours.

Mine were out after 24.

So God has done some wonderful things in healing my body.

Yes, I'm back.

Praise God.

And Reverend Buzz Taylor, did you have a question?

Well, yes,.

I was just kind of curious about the subject, the title of the book, Searching for Adam.

It almost sounds like something from the History Channel, except for the fact that if it was on the History.

Channel, Adam would end up being an alien or something.

Dr. Mortensen, if you could.

Tell us about the title, Searching for Adam.

Well, I can write content.

I'm not good at marketing.

This was the title that the publisher suggested, and then I suggested the

subtitle.

Yeah, well, they're both good.

They're both captivating and so on.

We have Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia, who says or

asks, Tim Keller is often quoted from reformed pulpits.

Does he still teach a compromised view of Genesis?

Well, obviously, it depends upon who you ask about what compromise means.

But according to your views of the young earth account of the creation

of all things, Dr. Mortensen, what is your

understanding of Tim Keller and his views.

On Genesis?

Well, I watched a couple of years ago in which he said that

in great

detail, but he's written a white paper,

the most significant

promoter of theistic evolution in America today,

sympathetic to that lengthy paper on there.

Well, thank you, Lou.

And guess.

What, Lou?

You have also won a free copy of Searching for Adam, Genesis, and the Truth about Man's Origin.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and that will arrive, God

willing, shortly from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for BibleBookService .com.

And we also thank, of course, Master Books, who published that work of Dr. Mortensen, for

providing these copies of it for our listeners today.

And let's see, we have Joe all the way in

Slovenia.

He says, Dear Brother Chris, I've never understood how those who promote the day -age theory of creation

get around all the later references in both the Old

Testament and New Testament to the Sabbath day of rest being referred to as one literal

24 -hour period recurring once every seven days.

How do they justify their equivocation of the meaning of day to mean long periods

of time during creation than all of the other times a 24 -hour solar day?

Thanks for your consistently faithful proclamation of biblical truth.

That's Joe from Slovenia.

And I've thought of that myself, how the Old Earth creationists turn

days into millions of years, and yet we have God resting

on the seventh day, which was to become the Sabbath day, and that was always understood

by His people, the Jewish people, as a literal

24 -hour day.

We don't have a million -year Sabbath, so we have an eternal Sabbath awaiting us after we die.

But if you could comment on Joe's question and comment.

The first commandment in Exodus 20 is a

critical verse for this whole question of the age.

It equates that

most,

most of

them,

and then when they do, some have tried to get around that verse by saying,

well, and one.

But if that were the case, God would not use the same Hebrew word in verse 11, which says,

for in six days the Lord made the heavens the earth that is in them,

a number of door,

which is, if He didn't like that, He could have

used it like He

did in

Daniel.

And God

used the only word, yom, and yamim in

plural, the commandment, and then the reason for the commandment in

Exodus 20, verses 8 to 11.

Another approach that's been used by John Lennox and C. John

Collins of

man, with man doesn't create out of nothing, whereas God does.

But I would contend that the fourth commandment is not contrasting the work of

man and the work of God.

It's equating the week of man and the creation week.

Man's work and God's work not being the same,

being identical.

Most old earth proponents ignore that, that passage, but it's, it's critical.

And I, I like any

attempt to fit notes

in them.

So He didn't make anything before the six days.

That means that this, the first day begins at verse one of Genesis one, not at verse

three, when

God created

the light.

And there's no Hebrew preposition there for the

English word in, but take it out.

It still means the same Lord made the heavens, the earth, the.

Sea, and all that is in them.

Well, thank you, Joe.

And you have also won a copy of Searching for Adam Genesis and the truth about

man's origin by our guests, Dr. Terry Mortensen, and that will be shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service.

And again, we thank our friends at Master Books for supplying the copies of this book.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, is it true that these skulls

that go from ape to man in a display at the Museum of Natural History in New York

City are not based on actual skulls, but merely tiny bone fragments that artists then used

to create from their own imagination.

What the progression of skulls would look like from evolution from ape to man?

Well, I wouldn't say it's

skulls, but are broken and have to be pieced together.

They're often incomplete at the reconstruction in

one color.

And so that

often they don't go again by

Dr. David Menton in Searching for Adam actually goes through

the traveling display by Smithsonian that's

been traveling around the country to public libraries.

He goes through every one of

the in that.

I heard that some of those skulls were

excavated from.

Reverend Buzz Taylor's family cemetery.

Just kidding there, Buzz.

But so what are these skulls?

Are these just different kinds of apes and monkeys and gorillas.

Or what

are they?

Yeah, they're

things that Dr.

Menton points out.

Is that a uniqueness

where we can hook a

pill and then

the way in the

back of

deceived by a lot of imaginative.

And RJ, you've won the final copy that we've been given of Searching for Adam Genesis and the

truth about man's origin.

So thank you very much for submitting your question today.

We have Jerry from Charlestown, New Hampshire, who says, could you please unpack the difference

between what you term origin science and operation science

and why understanding the distinction between the two is necessary when considering the origins of.

The universe and a historical Adam

distinction that needs to be made?

Because when we we talk about operation science, or we could call it experimental or

observational science, it's the science, the phone in everybody's

pocket, and it gives us our cars and air conditioning and computers and

finds cures for the

scientific method, which is the use of repeatable experiments in a controlled environment that's

usually in a laboratory so that we can

manipulate find cures for disease.

That kind of science, however, will not answer the question.

How did the Grand Canyon form?

It won't answer the question

church in London that has

him, you can't raise him from the dead.

You can't recreate him in the laboratory.

And we don't have any DNA samples, historical

questions origins is and

come into existence, how to galaxies come into existence.

And so whereas most of our engineering research,

medical origin

sciences, archaeology,

cosmology, even criminal investigation is a form of origin science.

And there, you use eyewitness testimony, if any is available,

see in the present, up

and in the unobserved, unrepeatable past to

produce

the other canyons forming over millions

of years, nobody has observed fossils forming over millions of years.

Those are stories about the unobserved past to explain the fossils and canyons

and living creatures that we see in the

present.

And of origins is

because what a person and

particularly what

what he sees to reconstruct the past.

And the only difference between the or the evolutionists and the creationists in the realm of origin sciences,

creationists believe that the Bible is the eyewitness testimony of the Creator, who was there at the beginning, who was

there all the way through history, who knows everything, who never makes mistakes, and who inspired

most of them deny

that there is

a God.

Well, obviously, though, our brothers in Christ, who may be an error in regard to an old earth who believe in

theistic evolution, they believe that God is the eyewitness to it.

Yes, but they don't believe that that the Bible demonic,

right?

They believe it's, you know, it was written by Moses.

And, you know, maybe they believe it was written by Moses, it depends on how much they've been influenced by

liberal.

Genesis

is hipple.

It's not a prophetic vision.

It's not some symbolic text.

It's certainly not a myth, or a saga.

It's historical narrative from verse one, all the way through the book of Genesis.

And I mean, when if you were Adam,

and you'd fall into sleep after naming animals for 10 hours, and you wake up and lay eyes on this beautiful woman, you'd

turn poetic real fast.

Well, I guess, I guess any woman would.

Have been beautiful since she was the only one.

But we have to go to a break right now.

And I know that Charlie Liebert has a question for you.

But we're gonna have to wait until we return.

So don't forget your question, Charlie.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

And thank you, Jerry, from Charlestown, New Hampshire.

Sorry, we don't have a book for you.

But I actually am looking at my records, you won the same book last time we had Dr. Mortensen on.

So we thank you for submitting a question today anyway.

And we'll be right back, God willing, after these messages.

Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience,

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

The NASV is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASV that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASV for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed, professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981,

717 -697 -1981, or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations.

I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

pastor's luncheon.

For details, call 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

Or visit chefexclusive .com.

That's chefexclusive .com.

Thrive in Financial is not your typical financial services provider.

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere Institute,

a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices

in business ethics.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, financial consultant

at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the Thrive in Difference.

We know much more than...

A new faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thrive in Story.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and

together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study.

Because everyone needs it.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org,

hcbible

.org.

Call 609 -494 -5689, 609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

And I hope you join me at Harvey Cedars for the Faithful Shepherd Pastors Retreat, May

15th through the 17th.

That's a week, in about a week from now, this coming Monday, May

15th through the 17th, at the Long Beach, on Long Beach, Long Island, at Harvey Cedars Bible

Conference Center in New Jersey.

This is the event being run by the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, featuring Carl

Truman, Todd Pruitt, John Nielsen, and Amy Byrd.

If you would like to register for the Faithful Shepherd Retreat, go to

alliancenet .org, click on events,

and then click on the Faithful Shepherd.

The Rev. Buzz Taylor and I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there, God willing, so please greet

us at the exhibitor's booth if you come to the event.

And that's May 15th through the 17th at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center in Harvey

Cedars, New Jersey, which is on Long Beach Island in New Jersey.

And then coming up shortly after that, the 2017 U .S.

Ministers Conference, being run by the Banner of Truth, is being held

Tuesday, May 30th, through Thursday, June 1st, at Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

The theme of the conference is the Living and Enduring Word, and the speakers

include Joel Beeky, Jeff Thomas, William Vandewoord, Mark Johnston,

Jonathan Master, who is my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron, Carlton Wynn, and

Ian Hamilton.

If you'd like to register for the 2017 U .S. Ministers Conference,

go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org, click on events,

and click on U .S. Ministers Conference.

Following that, in June, June 22nd and June

23rd, Sermon Audio is having the Foundations Conference in New York City on 350

West 26th Street, and there are going to be a number of excellent

speakers at this event as well, including Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Dr. Joel Beeky,

Phil Johnson, who is the Executive Director of John MacArthur's ministry, grace to you,

Todd Friel, and others, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, who I hope to have back

on very shortly on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He's always an excellent guest, both providing comedy relief and a vital truth,

which is very rare coming out of the same mouth.

But if you'd like to register for the Foundations Conference, go to thefoundationsconference

.com.

That's thefoundationsconference .com.

And also, after that, August 3rd through the 5th, the Fellowship

Conference New England is being held in Reverend Buzz Taylor's Old Stomping Grounds in Portland, Maine

at the Deering Center Community Church, and the speakers at this event

include Don Curran, who is with HeartCry

Missionary Society, the organization that Paul Washer is involved in,

and Mac Tomlinson, a dear friend of mine who's Pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

Pastor Jesse Barrington of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas is also speaking,

and Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who's going to be our guest in a couple of weeks here on Iron Sharpens Iron, he's the

pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question, what am I saying?

If you'd like to join us at the Fellowship Conference New England, I should say,

in Maine, you can go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

fellowshipconferencenewengland .com.

And last but not least, I am now announcing

next year's G3 Conference, the 2018 G3 Conference.

I have just heard from Pastor Josh Bice, who is the director of the G3

Conference.

He is also the pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in

the Atlanta, Georgia area.

This is going to be an exciting conference.

I've just heard word from Pastor Bice that I am also going to have

an exhibitor's booth there at that conference, compliments of the staff at

G3 Conference and compliments of the congregation at Praise Mill

Baptist Church.

This is going to be another exciting conference, I am sure, with

speakers that I'm sure will be of great edification to

all of you who attend.

And those speakers, many of them are the same speakers that were at last

year's conference and there are also some new additions.

We have folks such as Paul Washer speaking and Ted Schripp

and we have Josh Bice himself, my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega

Ministries.

Derek Thomas is going to be there and Tom Askell and many

others.

So if you'd like to register for the G3 Conference for 2018, which

is being held in January of 2018, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com and please, if you register

for any of these events, tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen at Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

That would mean a lot to me and I really look forward to meeting as many of you as

possible at that conference.

The G3 Conference is where I, more than any other place, have met

face -to -face for the first time listeners in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience

and it was such a joy last time to meet so many of you at the G3 Conference and I hope that

that happens again and I hope I meet many more of you who I have yet to meet at the G3 Conference.

So just go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

Last but not least, I must remind you that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is in urgent need

of sponsors and advertisers.

If you care to donate to Iron Sharpens Iron to ensure that we will remain on the air, go to

ironsharpensironradio .com, ironsharpensironradio .com, click on support

and you will have an address there where you can mail checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for any

amount that you choose and please never siphon money out of your regular giving to your church

and obviously if you are struggling to make ends meet with your own family, I do not want to take food off your own table.

I'm sure your wife and your whoever your spouses and your children do not want

that either.

But if God has blessed you above and beyond your ability to provide for your own family and to give

as always to your church, then I would love to receive a check of any amount

from you.

Please go to ironsharpensironradio .com and click on support.

If you want to advertise on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, whether your event that you're having, a special event,

or a business, a corporation, a church, a parachurch ministry, or anything else you want to

advertise as long as it's compatible with the theology expressed on our program, we would love to

hear from you.

Send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com and put

advertising in the subject line.

That's also the same address if you have a question for Dr. Terry Mortensen, chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We are now back to our discussion with Dr. Mortensen on his book Searching for Adam,

Genesis and the Truth about Man's Origin, which is a topic we began a couple of months ago and we invited

Dr. Mortensen back to continue this discussion.

And before the break, Charlie Liebert had a question or comment for you, Dr. Mortensen.

Charlie, do you remember what that.

Was?

Yes, I had a comment talking about this thing of historical versus operational science.

I teach a course in law for a community college and carrying this into the area of law, it's really interesting to look

at this because if science could prove what happened in the past, we wouldn't need jury trials.

We would simply have to, you know, come to a conclusion.

So if you look at the way a jury trial works, it works just like science.

You bring evidence, the evaluators look at the evidence and come to a conclusion.

That's what the origins debate is like.

It's never science versus faith.

It has to do with historical science and operational science, operational being the real data and then the

interpretation of that being the origins.

And Dr. Mortensen, do you have any comment on Charlie's comment?

Yeah, I think there's an exact difference between

criminal and, you know,

you can do some scientific experiments in the

lab, simulate, and

it has an analogical relationship to what

actually happened.

So, you know, you could do a flume experiment where you have a long tank and you pour in a bunch of

sand and mud and gravel and moving water and you watch to

see what happens at the end of the tank when the water slows down and what kind of deposits it makes.

And you could say, well, okay, now that's a very similar kind of deposit that we see in

this Grand Canyon layer.

And that's an analogy, but that still doesn't prove that this Grand

Canyon layer that is 10 ,000 square miles and 300 feet thick was formed

exactly the way your flume experiment says.

So trying to reconstruct the past is different than trying to

manipulate things in the present technology.

And that's particularly true of Steve Austin's work at Mount St. Helens.

Yes, exactly.

That was very important, yes.

Yeah.

And let's get to some of the unique things that you discuss

about the origins of man in the book.

I know that you go through quite a number of sections on

genetics and human anatomy.

Let's start with.

Genetics confirms the recent supernatural creation of Adam and Eve.

Well, what Dr. Tompkins do is

they talk about what constitutes a convincing

genetics argument.

And I worked really because I'm not a geneticist and I wanted to

do a non -geneticist, probably

the most difficult chapter for most readers,

illustrations that

help.

And I and

man came into existence in the

human genome should be orders of magnitude higher

than they are.

And if you could also explain a little bit about what is contained in the section

about human anatomy, unique, upright design.

Well, Dr. Stuart Burge of design engineering at Bristol University,

he, in fact, won an award to the team.

He led the design

of the bikes, biking team that won them a

gold

medal, was involved in designing

a part of one of the satellites that the European

said

a number of different aspects of human anatomy in contrast to

ape anatomy and just shows unique

in the way he used his five digits in his hand,

human that allows us to make so many different facial expressions.

And man is is really unique from the apes.

But we have seen even in the animal world that there are animals that use tools.

Wasn't it once believed that animals could not use tools?

And yet we see like otters using rocks to break open oysters and things like that.

Yeah, but they don't make tools and and their

tool magnitude simpler than anything that man makes.

We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says, I get the impression that old

earth creationists view themselves as rescuing the Christian faith from embarrassment

because of the fact that the young earth creationists are teaching things that are laughably

unscientific.

How do you respond to this kind of rhetoric?

I've been involved in seven

formal debates with PhD evolutionists,

any Christian on this issue, but I

find that the old earth creationists, they don't want

to debate.

And they and

they're not refused.

And then

other times

of young earth create try

to discredit what we say

before Charlie Lieber gives his comment.

Or question.

It's the charges have been very serious because they believe that

many of these folks who are old earth creationists are believing that eternity is at stake here

because you have people who are walking away, laughing at

Christianity and rejecting all of its claims, including the most important, the gospel of Jesus Christ,

because they, if they are immediately

disenchanted with the Christian faith, because they believe our accounts of the

origins of man and the universe are nothing more than buffoonery.

Why else would they believe in anything else that we have to say?

That seems to be the level of seriousness that many, not all, but many of the old earths

are bringing this debate to that point of severity.

Yeah.

And I would just say,.

We need to have a little bit of a historical perspective on this question, because for the last 200 years,

the majority of the church has

accepted

them in Western.

In those last 200 years, what have we

seen happen?

More open,

much more

just

compromise with millions of years has led to,

and the fact

is, it

answers in Genesis,

to be

masquerading as

science,

turning people away.

It's going on in the educational system and the science institutes

and the universities are not equipping their young

earth

creationists.

And Charlie

Lieber,.

You had a question.

The claim that the young earth creationists make laughable claims, I've had that thrown at me dozens

of times.

And my response is always, well, tell me one.

And it usually gets very quiet in the room.

Yeah.

Because they're just repeating something that,.

You know, that they've been told.

Yep.

And here's the other thing.

The same scientific community that laughs at creationists for believing in young earth creation

also laughs at the church for believing in the virgin birth and the resurrection.

So if you're going to bow the knee to the scientific majority, you've got to reject the whole Bible because they think the

whole thing is...

Yes.

It seems that there are many people, regardless of whether it's the scientific realm or other areas of

life, that are desperate to receive the

acceptance of the intelligentsia or the academic

elite of this world.

They are embarrassed by biblical claims and

seek so desperately to be accepted by the intelligentsia of

this world that they are willing.

To bend or deny biblical data.

Yep.

And the Bible warns us of the fear of man and it condemns people in the

gospels for seeking the praise of man.

Now, you mentioned John Lennox earlier.

I don't.

Know a lot about him, but I've heard him speak publicly.

I've seen him debate.

He seems to be a humble and irenic person.

He doesn't seem to be the kind of person that would mock or belittle.

Young earth creationists.

Am I right on that assessment?

Yeah, he would not be.

I know him in his

home when I was working on my Ph .D.

He is, in all

sincerity, and he's written a lot

and other things, but he doesn't believe Genesis.

He holds to a view that I would describe as the gap day, gap day.

There's an indeterminate amount of time towards the beginning of day one

and then he believes an indeterminate amount of time between the

days.

In 2011 in Birmingham,

Alabama, sponsored by,

and John Lennox was there, and during his one hour Q &A time with the audience, he was

asked, and he

didn't answer the question.

He answered a different question.

He answered the question, was the fall historical?

And he believes it was, but he didn't answer the question, was there millions of years of death before the fall?

And then another person asked, do you believe the flood was global?

And he didn't answer that question either.

He answered the question, was the flood historical?

Is it global?

Anything to do

in which he argues for his

older view, and it's a very disappointing book, in my opinion.

And this was John Lennox you're.

Referring to?

Yes.

We are going to our final break right now, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, now is the time to send

it in.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the good

old USA, and please only remain anonymous.

If it involves a private matter, let's say you're disagreeing with your own pastor on the age of the earth or

something like that, you'd rather not identify yourself.

I understand that.

In fact, we would not want to, nor will we, identify you if you are

speaking about a specific pastor or minister or someone like that in your congregation.

But other than that, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence, and we

will be right back after these messages, so don't go away.

What were those pictures?

They were pictures of a...

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh, out -of -the -box batteries

you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs, laptops,

tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card readers,

digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players, watches,

or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot .com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to BatteryDepot .com.

That's BatteryDepot .com.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

If you just tuned us in, our guest for the last 90 minutes and the next half hour to come has

been and will continue to be Dr. Terry Mortenson.

We have been and will continue discussing his book, Searching for Adam,

Genesis and the Truth about Man's Origin.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own before we run out of time, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and your country of residence if you live

outside of the good old USA.

And you have a section in this book, Dr. Mortenson,

titled, Ancient Man, Genius or Primitive?

And the reason why I find that particularly interesting

is that I recently saw a movie, I don't know if you've seen it or not or

even aware of it, I'm just losing my tongue here for some reason, but

there's a movie that was out and it's on the television right now, I believe on Netflix,

called Finding Altamira, Finding Altamira, A -L -T -A -M -I -R -A,

starring Antonio Banderas, and he is playing,

apparently, an actual true figure from history, an archaeologist,

who in the late 19th century discovered a cave with ancient paintings.

And the thing that is interesting about this movie is that although the

archaeologist that Antonio Banderas is portraying, although he was an evolutionist

himself and not a Christian, in fact his wife plays a devout Roman Catholic

who is going through her own trial as her husband is

battling with the church over his denial of the biblical account of creation,

the archaeologist in the movie, who is apparently a true person from history from the

19th century, he is actually battling with the other

evolutionists, the Darwinian evolutionists, who are insisting that ancient man

could not have painted the paintings that he discovered because they

were too expertly done, if you will, they were not primitive enough

for these have been created by ancient man.

Are you aware of this movie or of this historical.

Figure that the movie is

based upon?

No, I'm not.

Lots of other

things,

from farther we go back, the more

primitive, simply not.

So go into further detail about this section in your book.

Well, for the intelligence of man,

and

he

was a Christian

and invented musical instruments and two bow guns

and

iron, so

Genesis was

experimenting with things, so we like to say

Titanic and Noah built the ark, you know, he had to have

intelligence and skill to

make an ark,

working on our ark encounter here in northern Kentucky,

who weren't

believers, the Egyptians

in Peru, man did.

One

of

the ones that struck me most was

the architecture of the Incas,.

Because the construction of those things at 12 -13 ,000 feet of blocks that we couldn't even move today, and

then cut to perfection, is beyond anything, even our technology today.

Would have difficulty doing.

Yeah, exactly, it's a knife edge, you couldn't fit a piece of paper.

Between those blocks.

And some of the way like 29 tons or something, I mean the huge, huge box.

Well, and even Solomon, you know, they cut the trees in Lebanon and floated them down the

Mediterranean coast and carried them in, and huge, huge stones,

and they were cut, not at the

temple.

Brilliant.

Incredible craftsmen, yeah, that's true.

What can you tell us about the chapter in your book, Humanity's Shared History, reflecting the truth of

Genesis 1 -11?

Well, this is an interesting chapter as

well.

Many of them don't live near an ocean, and they're dead in many

cases, and there are a number of details, like

eight people being saved in a boat, along with animals, and sending a dove

out floodwaters

that

start falling, and a tower of

batteries, because they're among pagan peoples who lost contact.

Genesis,

described accurately in Genesis.

And one thing that I'd like to bring up before we run out of.

Time is that, although I am a

strongly convicted young earth creationist,

I do welcome individuals who have old earth views as my brothers

in Christ.

In fact, one of my oldest friends, one of my oldest Christian friends,

is Ken Samples, who is with the Reasons to Believe organization, and I've had

him on my program many times, although Ken has never addressed this

issue on my program, because he's not a scientist, and he exclusively addresses theological

matters that I agree with him on for the most part.

But don't we who are young earth advocates, as passionately as we

defend our beliefs and so on, don't we have to be careful about not crossing the line

and discounting our brethren who disagree as unbelievers.

And as just sinister monsters, if you will?

Yeah, oh absolutely, and I don't think, I mean, I'm not aware of

any prominent in

that kind

of language.

We don't deny that they're Christian, you know,

demon -possessed or anything like that.

We've never done that.

We strongly disagree with them, and we believe

that they got

under massive assault, and that's why we're so pagan.

We think that God doesn't like big numbers.

It's what the

evolutionist scientific community says happened in those millions of years.

It's millions of years of death in a time

period

demining what the Bible says, and the cosmic impact of the Fall,

and the final redemptive work of Christ when he comes to redeem the whole creation.

But we don't

accuse our

older

intentionally deceptive being lost in sin or anything like that,

and so sometimes it's interpreted that way just because we

are saying this is an issue of gospel consistency or coherency.

Right, and Charlie Liebert has another comment or question.

Yeah, I had a comment.

I was created from atheism at about age 35, and the showstopper for me, I mean, I came out of

evolutionary.

You were created from atheism?

No, I was converted from atheism.

Oh, I think you said created.

I'm sorry.

I was converted from atheism at 35.

So I wrestled with these issues for the first three or four years of my Christian life, and I read Barker, Gish, Ham, all the guys that wrote,

and if you will, I evolved into a young earth creationist, and the reason for that

simply is the theological issue, not the scientific issue, because ultimately when you come down to six days and very

good, and he looks at everything he's made at the end of the sixth day, those things are theological issues that I

don't see old earth getting past.

To me, they're real stumpers.

I mean, I don't know how you can get past those and say, yes, I really believe the scripture.

How do they try to?

I mean, do they try.

A couple of years ago, we had a group of four paper sessions at

the annual meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society.

I'm on the steering committee to organize those, and a couple of years ago, we dealt with the question in our four

sessions.

I was able to present the paper that year saying, no, there wasn't, but

Dr. Hugh Ross from Reasons to Believe argues, and he has for decades, that yes,

there was, and he says the

beginning, and I think that is

a...

Well, if death came by Adam, that makes no sense at all.

No, and Genesis 3 and Romans chapter 8 and even

Genesis 5 .22 meditates on all the time.

Genesis 5 .29, when Noah was born, Lamech said, maybe

this one will liberate us, and he

uses the same word for curse and the same word for ground.

So here, 1100 years after, right in the front of

Lamech's mind is the fact that he lives in a fallen, cursed creation.

And so Romans 8 talks about the fact that the whole creation is groaning in bondage, and

in the history of the planet on that have said, that's

what happened in Genesis 3.

But to accept millions of years, then we have to say, well, no, that's the way, to

me, that's an assault on the character of God,

and that's a serious,.

Serious issue.

Absolutely.

Well, now, when you explain that, it sounds so reasonable.

What could somebody possibly say against that?

Well, they try to look for verses, and they do look for verse,

Psalm 104, and

then they say, well, it's an ancient psalm.

No, it's not.

There are only a few verses in that psalm that refer to Genesis 1.

There's a few verses that verses 6 to 9 refer.

The rest of the psalm is talking about the creation at the time that's almost

Genesis 1.

And then they point to Job chapter, animals eating other animals,

and they say, see, that's another creation account.

No, it's not.

Genesis is talking about the creation,

keeps saying, now, look at this, look at that, do you know about this?

It's not a creation account, so it's not proof for the fall, because

Genesis 1, the last

two, a

result of ignoring what

Jesus said in Mark 10, 6, when he was asked a question about divorce,

from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.

And so Jesus believed that Adam was back there at the beginning of creation,

not 13 .8 billion years after the beginning.

Overwhelmingly in favor of the young earth view, and there's, to get

millions, many would

call, you have to read it into the text.

It's not there, any sound principle.

One of the questions that I like to ask my old earth.

Christians is this one, is the reason you're old earth, because you do not want to engage in

the spiritual warfare?

And that usually evokes some interesting reactions.

And Jesus said the world's going to hate us.

The world's going to hate us, it's going to go against.

Us in every way.

And we, you know, it's hard for us in America, we've kind of been distorted by our unique cultural

context.

Most Christians around the world, and I think

it'll probably, you know, isn't fun, but it'll be good for the church.

Yes, it will.

Is it heretical to be happy.

About the fall because you love the taste of barbecue?

No, because in Genesis 9 .3, God gave permission to eat meat.

That's right, exactly.

But didn't that come about after the fall?

What's that?

That came about after the fall, though, correct?

Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean.

Actually, after the flood.

Yeah.

Okay.

Can you please summarize, before we run out of time, Adam morality, the gospel, and the authority of Scripture?

Well, what I did in this chapter was

I,

evangelicals

are denying a literal Adam.

And

where our nation is,

how did we get to

this?

Most of the church compromised with

millions of years.

And then Darwin's theory came along, and much of the church came

in the 20th century, and Christians just keep

caving in,

and now they're

caving in on

Adam.

And it's worldwide,

speaking on creation in Romania, the Czech Republic, and Austria.

And they're hammered with this,

and they don't

have very many

resources.

And you

look at what happens when any politician even hints that...

Yeah, and I am baffled when

these politicians.

Remain silent about the racist origins of evolution, that they

never quote the full title of Darwin's origin of the

species, which is the quest for

preservation of favored racers and the struggle for survival, or something like that.

Do you have the exact subtitle in front of.

You?

Yeah, I don't have it right in front of me, but that's pretty close.

And favored races being the key word there.

And people don't bring up Margaret Sanger's racist policies that were

intended to erase blacks and other minorities from the

face of the earth.

Why is it that they remain silent about that?

If you're going to admit you don't believe in.

Evolution, why not give the full story?

Well, most of our politicians are just totally ignorant on this issue.

They went through the same public schools, the same universities, they were brainwashed

just like everybody else.

They watch the same science programs on television, they go to the same state and national parks, and they read the signs.

And that's why we have a chapter in Searching for Adam on evolution, racism, and

the scientific vindication of Genesis and evolution has been

the driving force behind all the

Margaret Sanger and the whole abortion and eugenics movement.

Hundreds of millions of people, both inside the womb and outside the womb have been murdered

because of people who applied the evolutionary thinking to

their and

it is in

the minds of people and it's global.

I found the full title, original title.

Of Darwin's masterpiece, I say sarcastically, On the

Origin of Species by the Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favored

Races in the Struggle for Life.

I would love for Chris Matthews and Bill Maher and all these other TV

personalities who laugh hysterically and mock those

conservative politicians who do not believe in evolution.

I would love for them to explain that.

I would love for them to explain how civilized and

intellectual and modern that idea is as

they seek to ridicule everyone outside of their

understanding of what is true and.

False.

You know, in the past and probably some even still

today, and yet

it's because they don't

understand the human

origins and

race and the white race and the yellow race and the brown race

between us is littler than others, but

there's absolutely no

difference what Genesis says,.

One race.

And of course, just because a person who claims to be a Christian is racist doesn't mean

they are truly a Christian.

Yeah.

But we're out of time right now and I want our listeners to know that the website for Answers in Genesis is

answersingenesis .org, answersingenesis .org.

The publisher who provided the books today, New Leaf Publishing Group, which is also connected with

Master Books, their website is nlpg .com,

nl for New Leaf, pg for Publishing Group, dot com.

And do you have any other contact.

Information you care to give?

Just answersingenesis .org is the way to reach us.

We've got over 10 ,000 articles on our website, just about any question people could think of, and two of

the two chapters that I wrote for the Adam book are also on our website.

And don't forget, Charlie Liebert's website is sixdaycreation .com, sixdaycreation .com.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially all of you who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far

greater Savior than you are a sinner.

Dr. Mortensen, I look forward to having you return to Iron Sharpens Iron in the very near future, and often thereafter,

God willing.

All right, God bless you.

God bless you.

And everyone, I would appreciate your prayers, your continued prayers for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.