Cultish: Examining Reiki Energy Healing & Kundalini Yoga, Pt. 1

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Cultish: Examining Reiki Energy Healing and Kundalini Yoga, Pt. 2

00:00

Alright, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is

00:05

Jeremiah Roberts I'm one of the co -hosts here. I am joined as always by Andrew the super sleuth of the show sleuthing around your secret super secret headquarters and Harriman, Utah Eventually, you know there might be a fan base out there like going around trying to find

00:22

Andrew like where's Walter like where's Andrew? They're trying to track you down But anyways, man, how are you doing up there?

00:29

I'm doing I'm doing well It's just crazy because it's like when you see me on the screen I actually went to space and back just to get to the screen.

00:37

So I'm like a celestial space traveler right now Oh, wow, pretty cool. That's crazy. That's crazy.

00:42

Didn't you just you just posted something you were with? Dusty Marshall one of your fellow compadres up and Salt Lake City, Utah, but you were

00:51

You were doing some you were harvesting some chickens or what was going on up there? Yeah, so my buddy dusty had about 40 chickens that he's gonna start selling from his farm and he needed some help

01:02

But like slaughtering the chickens butchering them So I went up there and it was quite the experience To say the lesson to say the least and yeah that uh, that post is a little bit triggering for some people

01:12

But you know it is it is what it is. It was just my thoughts on it. So there we go. Yeah Yeah, definitely very interesting.

01:19

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Bible dramatization And please consider supporting our good friend back to the episode So that being said we are here with Amber Aldrich and it's good to actually talk to you.

02:07

You've been going to church for a while and It's always interesting. You see someone, you know walk past you and you just assume they've just been part of the church for a long time

02:16

You're you're relatively a new Christian, yeah, and but you have quite the story

02:25

Especially let's just start at the beginning. I just wanted just curious about it. So we have talked about William Branham.

02:33

Yeah, and a couple of times we did a historical origin series with a good friend John Collins By a time this episode drops who would have talked to our friend

02:42

Naomi who was part of this Polygamous offshoot of William Branham. That was actually part of your background to Tell us just just jump in it.

02:53

Tell us about that. Sure. Yeah, I as a child I was my parents were involved in the church that followed

03:01

William Branham and so we went to that and It was just you know as a kid

03:09

The the neighbors thought we were Amish, which I thought was really cute in retrospect

03:15

Because we definitely had electricity. We lived in Arizona but But we dressed in you know, a lot of homemade or long clothing as as women we had to wear dresses

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We could never cut our hair The the adult women were not allowed to wear makeup.

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Like there was a lot of you couldn't have a television You didn't participate in Halloween Because Satan was out for your soul on that night

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You know, I mean some of this stuff like I don't really mind like growing up without television probably really helped me out quite a lot but yeah, so that was our that was our experience is very alienating and But we didn't stay in it

04:00

Super long as I was telling Andrew before we hopped on My my dad was actually an elder at the the church out in it was

04:11

Glendale or Peoria somewhere on the west side of Phoenix and He he added, you know, they got into like a dispute with the other elders.

04:19

And so we left Basically, I mean I had always thought we left because they were straying too far from the prophets message and that may have been something to it, but Yeah, so we got out of it

04:33

But then we would stay home all day on Sundays and listen to the tapes because that's a big thing in the messages you have all the tapes all the random tapes exactly so so we'd sit and listen to that and Yeah, it was a it was a very bizarre way to grow up Alienating and strange.

04:49

Yeah, so very isolated and sheltered world And so now this we've done previous episodes before on brand like I said

04:56

The primary aspect of this discussion is that you got heavily into the

05:02

New Age So really your before Christ story was someone who was heavily into the

05:08

New Age on many different Levels again, it's a broad broad scope. So what would you say and it's always

05:16

I think it's different for every single person What was the catalyst? What was the gateway for you kind of getting into all these practices?

05:22

I mean, there's a lot of them that you're into. Yeah, but what was what was the initial catalyst? I've been thinking about this and it's you know in in 2010 is when

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I really started diving into a lot of these However, it was really

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I mean early on in my life I would have this weird draw to things of the occult and so Like I was reflecting on as a child not a super small child but small like Maybe eight or so that age where I could go to the library with my parent with my mom yeah, and and and but be allowed to go and look on my own and so I would

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Feel like this pull to go to this one specific corner of the

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Glendale Public Library which was where all the occult books were and I would sit and stare at them and be terrified of them and Not sure why

06:19

I felt that desire to go there. My sister and I've been talking a lot about this because we have background of in our family lineage of like 33 degree masons and things like that and it just is curious if that has something to do with it

06:37

But yeah, so there's also there were there were pieces like that and all sorts of random little moments it growing up you know going to going to adopt a cat from a woman who had all these crystals and had to go and like See the cat in white light before determining if we were the proper family for it

06:58

But just kind of like a lot of seed planting. I feel like a lot of kind of normalizing really odd and occult behavior and then it wasn't really until 2010 and I feel like the major catalyst was

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I had gone through a divorce and I had spent my 20s really agnostic and then

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I and then I In my 30s really started spiritualist spiritually sink seeking.

07:26

Yeah, I'm just looking for interesting Looking for answers. Okay. Yeah, I mean it would also make sense to that something traumatic like a divorce

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Usually is a catalyst for someone to start really seeking for answers because that's for anyone who's gone through that, you know

07:42

It's incredibly Difficult and challenging and it's almost like your whole life is ripped out from you and it's like you have to start

07:50

You know all over again for sure You know, it is interesting you mentioned to about you know The allure you had that of to the occult even as a child like unsuspecting

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And I'll let you get your thoughts in this too because I mean you have a you have a past in the background, too I think there is really a true spiritual aspect where You know you tell you think about Jesus when he says suffer not the children suffer not the little children for such as the kingdom of heaven or in Jesus says if anyone causes these little ones to stumble it is better that They're tied to a millstone thrown into the sea.

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So there's a real Real gravitas that Jesus puts about, you know, the innocence of children for sure

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And I think and I've experienced that too as a kid like there's two particular examples. I remember there was a friend of mine next door his name is

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Ben Fry and I remember him telling me all about this Ouija board that he was playing with and this is when

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I'm 10 years old roughly and He is talking about, you know The different messages and how it's like how that the thing whatever you call was moving around on its own a couple of times

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And he started seeing messages Written in blood on the wall of things. I won't repeat and it's

09:03

I think about in hindsight This kid was a tell you'd like to tell tall tales He's one of those kids, but even

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I think as a ten -year -old boy, I could tell that he wasn't He was being for real in that moment then another moment too was

09:17

I'm Assuming that similar to the library is that I got into these books called the adventures of lone wolf

09:23

Which is kind of like a role -playing game kind of like you know, let's choose your own adventure books So it's basically one of those but you have different categories of you know

09:31

Physical spells but also like magic you can use but one of them is basically the power of divination And so I remember being allured when

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I'd see like that was a character that I that's a power You can kind of give your character and I'll give that to them not really knowing what it was

09:45

And it wasn't until later. I found out I was like, oh my goodness, you know, and I became a

09:51

Christian I didn't know that's what it was doing something that was wrong like that But what about you Andrew like as as you were younger?

09:57

Did you have any times where you experienced some sort of allure of the occult at being younger or grown -up?

10:05

yeah, so I grew up in a Going to Christian school So the kind of the pendulum kind of swinged for me on the opposite direction to where I knew those things were there

10:14

But I was absolutely terrified of them and you would never see me trying to get Anywhere around them, you know, if I heard about it,

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I didn't want to know about it I didn't want to be around it because I didn't want it to influence me in any way but what's funny is my older brother he got heavily into the occult when

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I was a young at a young age and He would do weird things in his bedroom like seances and stuff like that and it really did affect our household

10:38

I have very vivid memories of very odd things happening in our house In Albuquerque, but what

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I find interesting too is about like the natural curiosity of children, right? like Jesus is so protective of the little children because of their

10:50

Curiosity and we need to be able to protect them and point them to the truth in their innocent curiosity

10:57

My question for you amber is um growing up like in the brand of my it's thinking that you know

11:03

Satan roams around during Halloween to take your soul essentially was there in a lure that was created because of the off -limit limitness of the nature of evil or How how did how exactly did that work and also when did your did your family stay in the message the whole time?

11:21

Did you ever at a teenager question it? Did you go to like a public high school? How did that work? Yeah I'll hit that last part first.

11:30

So we left probably when I was seven or eight And then it was a vacuum.

11:38

There was nothing so You really can't get a kid that freaked out

11:44

About hell and then leave them in nothing. I mean you can but it's it doesn't work out great

11:49

So it was probably when I was 12 or 13 I started going to a non -denominational church with my neighbors across the street so I would just catch a ride with them and go and I was spent most of definitely throughout most of my teens going to that and it wasn't really until I was maybe 16 or 17 that I started you know,

12:12

Prioritizing hanging out with my friends and Getting stoned or whatever instead of actually going to church and so I kind of started tapering off and wasn't as involved and so you know,

12:24

I just looked at my childhood as this kind of extreme weirdness and and how alienating it was and all of that, but I didn't

12:35

I don't know that Perhaps maybe when I was older it became about that that temptation to To kind of peel it back and look at what's what's back there in the occult

12:51

But I don't recall that I mean as as a child going to the library and things like that That was really more like I was freaked out about why

12:58

I was being called To there and even as I picked up a book and looked at it I'd be like, you know and put it back on the shelf and so I wasn't excited about it even when we were you know when we left that when we left the message and My dad would take my sister trick -or -treating and I never wanted to go.

13:17

I always stayed home I was like, I don't want any part of that I was a little I was older than she was so I I think

13:23

I absorbed a little bit more of the time in the church since it was rather short But I don't know that it was a rebellious

13:34

Desire to try to seek it out. Initially. I think it then became in my 30s, you know starting out really benign like Just kind of maybe books that would hit an

13:47

Oprah book club or something like that, you know that's kind of a general positivity and law of attraction the secret kind of stuff and then it just Went a lot deeper.

13:59

Gotcha so through so then you get to the point where you have you go through the divorce and then that is sort of the

14:06

Catalyst for you to start seeking for answers and that's when you mentioned like a lot of attractions So stuff like Eckhart Tolle Wayne Dyer Kind of like a lot of you know, really you see like in the personal development niche, you know

14:19

People are looking for ways to you know Deal with your depression or anxiety or just trying to really rediscover your identity

14:26

That would be a major factor after a divorce so that that was a major catalyst So just what was it like kind of getting into the that sort of literature and and what was your takeaways when you got into that?

14:36

stuff Yeah, I mean a lot of that is you're right it's just kind of general self -help stuff but underneath it

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I think the common theme is this This one ism or all one

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Mentality which really takes out the potential for God unless of course you yourself are a

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God you're a co -creator that kind of that kind of idea and so Spending you know spending time in that it

15:08

It just felt it felt different but it also it was focusing on the positivity and everything like that and I think it reminds me a lot of what

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I would teach so I've taught mindfulness classes and I would talk about this thing that I called the

15:27

Miata effect because as a as a teenager I wanted a Mazda Miata, which is a ludicrous car for somebody that's over six foot just stupid idea and so but I really wanted one and I would have this experience and I think everyone's experienced this before when they're considering or they just bought a new car all of a

15:48

Sudden they see that car everywhere they go and it was that kind of a thing and that's really just the way our brain works but the law of attraction kind of builds on that as if you're co -creating with a

16:00

Universe that's co -conspiring with you and all of that. So so it felt

16:07

Good like it felt like oh things are you know, things are moving and there's positive experiences and all of that But underneath that you're really

16:17

Suppressing anything that is actually negative going on You're totally hiding your sin and not not addressing that at all.

16:26

And so it's Kind of like a feel -good that's not not real

16:32

Luckily, no, no, no, no doubt that would definitely make sense for sure Hey everyone, if you are watching us right now on apology of studios

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Which will also help support the studio which will allow cultists to be a possibility as well on a weekly basis

17:07

So we thank you all for watching us and now back to the episode Would you agree when it comes to new age?

17:14

We've had this conversation before you know with other people too And then we talked to when we had Teresa Gentry on last year

17:20

And other people we've talked to as well to people like Doreen virtue who actually had we're been on stage with people like dr.

17:26

Wayne Dyer the term spiritual narcotic Does that resonate just off the get -go yeah, and I've never heard it before.

17:36

Yeah how so So I have my thoughts

17:42

I want to hear yours well, I mean, I think it speaks to the greater thing about the new age, which is a

17:49

Never -ending Seeking so and actually in we'll get to my background in Kundalini but in that I had there was a teacher that taught in Nevada City where I lived all the same as Teresa Gentry and and I would go to his class from time to time and it just felt like we were like chasing that That moment like that climax of the class or whatever

18:15

And so to me like that's that kind of constant You know, it's like you're you're almost like you just finish a training or a conference or a workshop or whatever

18:27

You're in and you're like itching and waiting for the next one. Yeah So that's that's what

18:32

I take away when when you say exactly no I was thinking of the same thing because when you actually go through, you know, it's call your spiritual resume your former spiritual resume

18:42

It's it starts off with a Wayne Dyer book or Eckhart Tolle where it's you know a new age a lot of new age thought is 80 -20 or sometimes 97 % something that's

18:56

Practical and true like there's concepts of the way that you live your life even now and I kind of look at Sometimes what certain people will talk about and like oh that makes sense

19:05

You know There's this one guy that my brother is into and there's one or two things I was listening to Just to be able to have conversations with him, you know,

19:12

I would get it but all of a sudden, you know I would agree with him the small little aspect but then along with that are the aspects of you know

19:20

If you are God all is one all his self and it always is a catalyst for that But it's always it's never enough.

19:26

You know, it's it's one thing you're bought looking at Eckhart Tolle and next, you know, you go down to kundalini yoga and getting into Reiki and it's always the next thing

19:34

It's never enough and I know you can be your thoughts Andrew, too It's like if you remember wild wild country

19:41

That'd be like one example when you would see the practitioners back then with the Rajneesh where they would get all worked up you know for 40 minutes into this, you know where they're just Shake their bodies and kind of do the

19:54

Shakti pod and they would try and release everything and they have this moment of just a subtle piece after just going crazy for about 40 minutes and Then all of a sudden to be this momentary piece

20:05

But after that, guess what? They probably have to do it all over again No, no, what are your thoughts in the concept of spiritual narcotic?

20:12

What are your thoughts Andrew? Yeah, I think the term spiritual narcotic is extremely useful term because in the new age you're always seeking for something more the next thing

20:21

Because what I find is that the person's never really truly alone with themselves And what I mean by that is what we got to understand is though there is positivity

20:29

Right that word quote -unquote or searching for the best you or the best life to be a co -creator the truth is is the

20:37

Bible says that people that Do not have peace with God are not covered in the sacrifice of Christ's meaning this that if you

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Do not believe in Jesus Christ, and if you do not have faith in Christ, that means when you're alone in your bed

20:51

You don't have peace with God And I think the New Age seeks as a spiritual narcotic to not have you get to that point

20:58

Right to constantly keep you busier and busier and busier

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But my question would be amber is there ever a point in time to where like you're you're you're in the

21:09

New Age But there's times when you're laying your head on your pillow at night Even though you're deep into it and you're like what am

21:15

I missing still is there still something? I'm that that's not right or were you just constantly just going after the next thing

21:22

Did you ever think there was something wrong with you or broken in you or did you just think maybe?

21:27

You're not thinking about something correctly Yeah, I think it's really convenient. So There would be those times but of course it would be

21:36

Oh, well, this shadow part of myself is coming up or you know Oh, I must be dealing with some karma from a past life right now or you know

21:46

It's there's always like a good answer I mean, they're not good, but there's always an answer for why you're not actually satisfied

21:53

And I've been thinking about this and I can't remember who says it It might be somebody at apologia, but somebody says, you know, it's like these people are walking around with a

22:01

Jesus shaped hole They're trying to fill and that's like that's like the boil it down to the easiest point

22:07

Like that's that's it but you don't realize and so you just keep kind of thinking like oh the next thing and the next thing and and really the whole point is to reach enlightenment the whole point is to become an ascended master and so You don't know if it'll be this lifetime or the next lifetime or 800 lifetimes from now, you know,

22:29

I dated I dated a man who was who studied and was involved with the Studied I suppose the rest the

22:36

Rosicrucians. I don't know if y 'all are familiar with Rosicrucians a little bit Yeah, George Harrison and the

22:41

Beatles when I hear that yeah, so but his whole concept from that was

22:50

Every lifetime is a single one day of School, so imagine your entire life from preschool to the end of college

23:01

Maybe you're gonna master's degree or whatnot and every lifetime. You're like, yep. That was day one of kindergarten

23:07

And and next lifetime will be day two So it's just like a real slow like you realize

23:14

I mean you want to ascend faster And that's why you pay tens of thousands of dollars if you can to go to different events and get the next level attunement and the next thing, but it's it it the

23:28

The dissatisfaction is just with the speed at which you're achieving

23:35

Enlightenment. Mm -hmm. It's not like maybe there's something wrong here. And this isn't the actual answer

23:41

Right when you when you grew up and you're going a little bit to some non -denominational churches

23:46

I'm sure you had to have heard sometimes something about sin And they're being a broken relationship with God when you're in the

23:53

New Age. How did you justify those things? How did you think about? Christianity at that time.

23:59

I thought Christianity was a deception of man to control people and that You know as part of we can start getting into like it was the white patriarchy, you know, and Really?

24:14

Oh, yeah. Sure Yeah, so, you know you two are like the worst on the scale because you're white heterosexual

24:22

Christian men Like just as much as I know Sorry Yeah, so but you know so as part it was it was looking at it that way it was looking at these people just Haven't experienced enough of life to fall for something like that And I got in in all fairness

24:46

I got a pretty crappy version of the gospel growing up under the teachings of William Branham.

24:52

So You know, I can see how I got there, but I but I noticed this is a common attitude in the

24:59

New Age You know, I mean people really look at Christians as kind of a simple uneducated

25:05

I suppose it's similar to how a lot of people look at conservatives in this country right now you know, it's just really easy to like put a little stamp on you and kind of put you in a basket of deplorables or whatnot

25:17

Hmm. Yeah, I mean and so let me ask you this too. So I mean one of the catalysts as well, too

25:23

And I don't know if it's a particular order. You mentioned that you became a like a Reiki Master and that's that's really a prominent thing, too

25:29

I mean if you if you look up on you know in the whole world of social media, especially on tik -tok

25:35

And you have the trending hashtag of you know what people who are practice practicing which is under the hashtag which talk and you have a bunch of people

25:42

YouTube for example just had a Official tarot card day. That's right. I will from church actually just text me and told me about that like goodness gracious You're just see such a prominent

25:53

Just really embracing of the occult as Western civilization plunges into the abyss

25:58

That always happens you always see that happening there But what was the catalyst is that kind of the first major practice?

26:05

You kind of got into me type that out first and if so, tell us about that Like what was what was the allure of getting to that practice specifically for you?

26:13

That was actually so My sister went to an event on Mount Shasta, which if you're a new ag person, that's definitely a place you should go and Where's that?

26:25

Where's that? It's in Northern, California. Okay, it is stunning and And so they have a lot of events there and so they had an event there where they brought in People from they're called the

26:39

Karo Q You are Oh Q. E. R. O. Yeah. Oh boy.

26:44

Look me up Spelling live so So the

26:52

Karo came in there they're Peruvian shamans from The really high

26:59

Andes and So she went to this event with them and they did all these ceremonies and it was super meaningful to her

27:06

And so we were talking about it. I wanted to experience something like that. And so What they call people who are trained in that lineage are

27:17

Mesa pack carriers, and I don't even know what the word pack means I don't know what it means in that sense, but the

27:23

Mesa is this collection of Sacred objects so it could be feathers and crystals and you know, all of these different things and then they're they're wrapped in Peruvian cloth and tied and it's all very specific and then

27:42

That is taken with you to every ceremony that you attend and They use it to cleanse your energy and then they'll cleanse it

27:53

So it's not holding on to that and so oh so there was this thing and so I started searching

28:00

I lived in Seattle at the time and I started searching Mesa pack carriers in Seattle and I found this woman who was a

28:07

Reiki shamanic practitioner and the next thing she was offering was

28:13

Reiki one so I took Reiki one and Went through that attunement and continued on there's three

28:19

So I did the second attunement with her and then I actually did the final master's attunement with one of her students

28:27

Because for whatever reason I felt like that was the right choice to do it with her instead of the primary teacher

28:34

Yeah, but then I went on to do Those ceremonies in the Karo tradition are called despachos and I went on to do regular despachos with with my

28:46

Reiki teacher and That's where you come together and you have these they would be coca leaves, but those are very hard to come by in the u .s.

28:56

So they would be They would be bay leaves generally and you would get three little bay leaves and that's called akin to and then you would blow your

29:05

Prayers into it and then you would pass it along and then it would be put in something that looked a lot like the Mesa But it was meant to be burned

29:16

Yeah, so so we would go ahead and then we would go out for a

29:23

Fire and they would burn that entire thing that was offering our prayers up to the to the spirits and It was like you had to turn away because it's considered rude to watch the spirits consume or eat those

29:39

Right, and you're doing this while you're up in Mount Shasta. Oh, well, I wasn't in Shasta So my sister had gone to Mount Shasta.

29:45

So I'm doing these up in Seattle where I was living at the time Okay, so you're in Seattle then? Um, so I remember there's a friend of mine

29:53

Elaine She used to be part of apology a Chanel is she actually lives up in Oregon now with her husband

29:59

But you know, she was there one time where she was like, I think she was doing a bike ride she used to race professionally via mountain biking and She was offered to get a massage but actually was somebody who was a

30:12

Reiki healer and then there was just something about Whatever whenever whatever she was doing at first she was doing something that was just regular and physical

30:20

But that when she went into whatever it was she just sensed this Evil presence she called as being evil like her just all her alarm bells went out like Holy Spirit alarm bells

30:31

Whatever she's doing to me is not good and she talked to me about it. I'm like, yeah That's probably that I just knew it was bad.

30:39

But I guess my question would be and again, I'm not we're not Endorsing this in any way or anything

30:45

I'm just generally curious like from your perspective when you were into the new age when you're practicing this

30:50

When you're when you're trying to actually use Reiki to heal people like what does that actually entail?

30:57

So you receive an attunement which is The teacher passing that ability to you through an energetic process

31:08

So you're so I mean, I didn't see her. I was sitting there with my eyes closed. She's standing behind me and then

31:16

You are taught specific symbols and those symbols were supposed to be kept secret But they're everywhere.

31:22

You can find them online quite easily now and this used to be people used to pay

31:29

Tens of thousands of dollars for their Reiki attunements and now people just will give it to people for free and So there was like a lot of contention when that happened because it used to be something like my teacher would say

31:43

That when she would meet other people in that world Like like people would bow to her because she had that attunement

31:52

And it was a big deal because it was not like it is now where it's everywhere and just about anybody can

31:58

Go through this process so I Think I lost the thread of exactly what all you were asking

32:05

Yeah, I have a question real quick in terms in terms of the attunement attunement It almost it almost reminds me of like a counterfeit laying on laying on hands, right?

32:12

Like the Apostles would go out and they'd impart some spiritual gifts to their early church through laying on hands My question would be if someone's in in Reiki if they can heal using energy

32:23

Why have to use movements at all? Like what's the thought process on that? Why can't you just sit there and heal somebody?

32:30

Why do you need to use your hands? Why do you need to make shapes? Well, the the shapes are something that you visualize

32:37

So they and they have specific names. So you're calling Inside your head.

32:43

Okay, you're calling the name and drawing the shape In your head. So I mean you're

32:50

Casting a spell Essentially, you know and so that that's that's the process and then you could

32:59

I Mean you can do it from distance you can do it in person with the with the person receiving and It's I think this gets to like a bigger

33:11

Aspect of all of this because I have I have a lot of close people in my life who are still really into a lot of energy healing and it's

33:22

You it could be placebo. It could be psychosomatic that that sometimes it really does work or it could be that they're

33:32

Accessing a power that we don't want to access or like what we were talking about before around the secret knowledge

33:39

That's yeah, that's meant for the Lord like that and that's isn't that mean that's original sin, right?

33:45

That's that's the very first fall of man is to desire after knowledge That's not a then that's not ours to have so I don't think that it's all a farce

33:54

I don't think that those things don't actually have an impact in people's lives

33:59

I just worry that you're opening yourself up to Anywhere from just Not so good energy all the way up to demonic or satanic energy, right?

34:12

Well, and you don't know because you don't know what that person's under the influence of and you don't know what the person you know

34:17

On the other side of them is so it makes it really challenging To to to track that and people can have really good intentions.

34:27

I know you you sent me over to watch that Series on Hulu on teal swan and I I genuinely think she has good intentions.

34:35

I think she wants to heal people But the approach and the effect are

34:43

It's bad fruit. Yeah. No for sure. In fact, you know one thing is Walter Martin said it was that there are

34:49

Healing modalities or just healing that does come from the world of the New Age and the occult

34:54

That's not healing that comes from God And so that's what you hear some of it again might be a psychosomatic

34:59

Sometimes if you're in a group like that and don't you people are cheering for you on the stage? they're just That is just part of the nature of humans and our ability to be of suggestibility for sure

35:12

But there is I think there is a real unique supernatural aspect to that of why something like Reiki is so is so appealing

35:20

So in other words, it's really just People are looking to be healed on some level But it's some sort of but they're doing it by way of a supernatural modality is which is what really was taking place then, right?

35:31

Yeah and I mean I remember seeing somebody for the first time after I had gotten my first attunement and I was

35:37

I was bartending at the time and I had one of my co -workers recommend a woman to me who was

35:43

Battling cancer and she came and I gave her a treatment and and it went really well

35:50

And I mean she obviously she wasn't cured of cancer But she had a relaxing time as if she had had a massage or something

35:56

It was it was beneficial to relax her in that moment But for whatever reason I was compelled because I think the the never -ending

36:04

Seeking part of New Age to give her the information to help heal her and so I had photocopied a page out of Louise Hayes you can heal your life book.

36:16

I don't know if you're familiar with with Louise Hay or her work but she basically wrote out a book and it's you can look it up by by ailment and it will tell you what you're spiritually battling or dealing with and so I Handed this woman in all sincerity genuinely wanting to help her a piece of paper that basically told her you have unresolved

36:38

Anger issues and that's why you have cancer. So if you could go ahead I mean, it didn't say it that harshly but it's like if you could go ahead and just take care of that anger

36:45

You wouldn't have to deal with the cancer. I Genuinely thought I was helping I was hoping to help she never came and saw me again.

36:52

It's not too terribly surprising Wow Yeah, well, Andrew, what were you gonna ask? Yeah. Yeah, and the reason why

36:59

I asked the question about the hands is I'm thinking to myself that Essentially do do people know when they're practicing

37:05

Reiki that it's not the power actually doesn't come from themselves It's actually the channeling of something else.

37:11

Like that's the thing is there's there's a modality taking place. There's a Sorcery, there's a process and you're essentially dabbling in the things of the occult of which you should not dabble in when the the

37:23

Bible calls those things very specifically an abomination because it's not though it may be Beneficial in a physical aspect like instantly like instant gratification for the person in the long run

37:34

It's just damaging right if it takes you away from God in the gospel The true spiritual healing that we need to have peace with God and pulls you into something further and farther away

37:43

It's it's a damaging Do people think when they're practicing Reiki that that sometimes they could be channeling a spirit that helps with the energy or do they?

37:51

just typically think that The the maybe the universe is helping heal them or something or what what exactly is going on in the process?

37:59

Yeah, the the belief is that the healing is coming from source Would be the word most often used somebody might say universe if they were really edgy.

38:09

They might say God but they wouldn't mean the Christian God and and the idea is that the practitioner is

38:19

They call you either and this is common in shamanism Also, they call you a hollow bone or a straw so my

38:27

Reiki teacher would often oftentimes use the the Analogy of a milkshake the milkshake is the item that's healing it

38:35

You're the straw that allows that person to take it into their body so the problem with that is there's a lot of pressure to Be that hollow straw or that or that hollow bone.

38:48

So there's a lot of things around How you eat how you spend your time?

38:54

All of that because otherwise, I mean for example some of the other Kind of more fringe modalities that I got into in the world of energy healing you couldn't drink if I had had a glass of wine with dinner and Somebody called me the next day and asked for an energy healing.

39:11

I'd have to say no so they're very aware that they're pulling energy through their body that is not of themselves and I was very aware of that and there's an immense pressure, which

39:24

I think is why Part of why you get on that never -ending cycle of learning new

39:30

New modalities and doing more work in in that world is that you want to be the cleanest

39:37

Clearest vessel you can be so that way those people can experience the highest Healing that they can experience because otherwise like if I'm focused on my own junk

39:47

Then I might inhibit the level of healing that this person on the table could receive

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40:00

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40:41

So it turned out that my sister and her husband and my very young at the time nephew had moved to Ecuador and so I'd gone down to visit them a number of times and And it was in fall of 2012.

40:56

My best friend had died very unexpectedly in the summer and I you know yet another relationship ended and I just was in this place of I'd been at the same bar bartending for eight and a half years and I just was like I Need out

41:14

I need to go. I need to grieve. I need time alone I had money in my savings account

41:20

And so I just I just and I had been down there several times for a couple weeks at a time so I just decided to go down and and and get some much -needed rest and and actually grieve and so I booked a room at a

41:39

Meditation center believe it was Vipassana. I honestly don't know and it was run by a gringo a white man and There would be you know, daily multiple daily meditations that were facilitated there would once a month they would hold

41:57

Temescal a traditional shamanic sweat lodge in the

42:03

Andean tradition and we would have We would have the shaman from that town we lived in it was in Vilcabamba Which is a really it's so funny how there's these hot spots for the

42:16

New Age, right? So there's common places that people hang out that town really when but by the time we were leaving it was just it had hit a fever pitch of having so many gringos there and just really

42:34

Causing Massive issues with the locals because we had destroyed. I mean their economy like all of the main shops and restaurants on the town center and it's a small area, you know, maybe a handful a thousand people and But all of the shops and we're all catered to us

42:52

Hippies with money and you know, and so it didn't matter. We didn't argue about the price

42:57

We were like, can you believe we just got you know a fresh juice for three dollars or four dollars or whatever and the locals?

43:04

They're like that's like double triple Quadruple the price we should be paying for any of these goods and we don't really even want that Specific good because we don't care about raw superfoods, you know

43:15

But so yeah, so I was down there and I didn't intend to be there for the end of the

43:20

Mayan calendar It just kind of worked out that way But there was a large gathering that that all of the local gringos put on that was that was just days of meditations yoga

43:35

Chanting, you know, the kids were just out running barefoot and just just such a you know hippie commune scene and And then, you know,

43:45

I mentioned to you before when I talked about this that you know the next day So whatever is that December 21st?

43:51

It was supposed to be. Yeah, so December 22nd Everybody is walking around like the Charlie Brown just like want one

43:57

So depressed because they are supposed to be 5d We were supposed to ascend to 5d everybody knew it was gonna happen the

44:04

Mayans clearly told us, you know, and we did all this this prayer and this meditation and focusing on it and all of that, but Wow, what's the 5d?

44:15

Well, what is that essentially I mean, I don't fully understand it But like we're in 3d right now, and I don't know why we skip 40

44:23

But for whatever reason we're ascending to 5d when we do a fund Got you.

44:29

Got you. What's what's the what was the thought processes like this behind the sweat lodges? Like what spiritually is supposed to happen to you?

44:36

What is the sweat the perspiration supposed to do? Yeah, it's um, it's a it's a purification

44:43

And you know you go in and You're supposed to you know, it's it's a prayer.

44:50

This is what they would call it and the the shaman lead it and You know, there will be a time where everybody can share like while you're in the in the lodge and there's multiple

45:08

Sessions is not the right word. I can't think of what the word is, but They basically they open the the door and let everybody get some fresh air and kind of revive themselves

45:18

Generally four times. It's usually four sets And so people if they're just not hanging well

45:23

Like the first sweat lodge I ever went to was in Ecuador at that meditation center I had no intention of going

45:30

I had gotten there. I had been on the bus all day from a quenka I had arrived these are not air -conditioned buses because I've been oh no.

45:39

Yeah I've been I've been in buses like they had to like they had to rein them in because so many buses were just whoo like off the edge of The Andean Mountains and they're like you can't keep killing the tourists like you guys have to get it together

45:56

Because it was just so common they'll pass on a blind corner every time I'm like this whole straight shot.

46:03

We had would have been a really keen time Videos always pass on the blind corner and Sometimes it doesn't end well, so but anyhow that I digress no, but I know what you're talking about They want seeing those videos and you just you're like scrolling through, you know, your

46:19

Instagram reels Nelson see one of those It's like oh, hi. Hello anxiety. How you doing? It's like that you talk about just anything like I'm Heights or not.

46:28

I'm terrified of heights, but just those videos give me anxiety. So I totally know what you're talking about Yeah, it's a lot

46:35

So anyhow, I had gotten in gotten into my room left all my things went up to a restaurant that I had been to before when

46:41

I had traveled there and Got just an enormous meal I had like chili reano and and then

46:48

I had a raw cacao milkshake So it's like raw milk and cacao and all this stuff. So I was just filled at the brim.

46:54

It was ludicrous I was just like so full and I get back and they're hosting a sweat lodge and one of the women that I know

47:00

Is like you should do it I'm like, I don't know I've never done one before I'm really full I think it's a bad idea.

47:06

And so she really encouraged me. So I did and You know would have been probably wise to have left at one of the early sets when they opened it but I kept just sticking it out and And that was my first sweat lodge experience.

47:20

Hmm. Yeah, I Remember and this is a total no -no. It breaks every rule

47:25

I had actually stuck my finger in the dirt out underneath the the

47:32

Blankets that cover it. So I don't know if you've seen a sweat lodge it's the generally they use willow and they and they create this dome structure and It's very specific like every stick is a branch is very specifically placed to Match all of the directions and it makes the star on top and then they cover it with as many heavy blankets as it takes to make sure that not a single bit of light gets in and Then the only light that you really have is when they're bringing they have all the stones which they would call

48:11

The the ancestors all the stones are in a fire all day long And then they're they're shoveling the stones into the pit in the center that you're right next to you know

48:23

So people sometimes say if they are not feeling well, and they try to get up everyone's helping them so they don't fall on to the hot stones and And then the the during the ceremony they're they're just ladling water on this and it's completely closed off So there's just no it takes all the air out of it.

48:41

It's just this this hot sweaty Yeah lodge.

48:47

Mm -hmm. Wow. Yeah. Yeah Well, let me ask you this because you're talking about all these different practices and I think one of the things we're kind of trying to emphasize in this episode is that for anyone who's into the

48:58

New Age as much as they try and really Put on a front that they have it all together and that you're understanding all this these special Modalities of secret hidden esoteric knowledge deep down inside.

49:11

They don't have it together and they always have to jump to the next thing so When you mentioned

49:17

I'm just curious to kind of jump back at the beginning of the episode with your divorce and all the trauma that Came through that was there an aspect to when it comes to especially women in the

49:27

New Age Exploring your divine feminine. Yeah, because you mentioned sort of the egg against white patriarchal men

49:35

But was that sort of like getting into that and kind of kind of exploring that aspect of New Age spirituality

49:41

Was your divorce to a catalyst for that given those circumstances at all Yeah, I haven't thought about it in that context, but I absolutely

49:51

Delved into the whole divine feminine and you know was studying under women who would call themselves priestesses

49:59

Would host things like I actually just in trying to determine the timeline because sometimes it's a little fuzzy

50:06

Yeah in my head I pulled up an old email where I was trying to start a like a goddess circle when

50:13

I was down in Ecuador I was trying to like connect via zoom or something with some of the like the core women in my tribe in Seattle and so yeah

50:25

I would say it was definitely a part of it and that whole idea of like Accessing like the energy of Kali ma, you know and having this just like rage full feminine

50:37

Energy that's just raging against the patriarchy and and And and the idea was that the goal from the

50:46

New Age was you know that we were going to To reconcile the divine masculine and the divine feminine, but it never gets there

50:55

Just like you never get to Ascension, you know, never enough and you're just always are kind of seeking Yeah What would be what would you say would be the gap between when you do something like being when you're down in Ecuador near say you're in the sweat lodge and you're or you're doing this

51:09

Meditation, there's usually kind of like that spiritual high But then you have to do it again or do something else, right?

51:17

Like what's what how would you describe like the gap? How much was the gap between? You know you you all of a sudden going to the end of one like sweat lab meditation something like that But then all of a sudden having to go on to the next thing

51:28

Like how long would that gap take place? And what was that process for you say emotionally and spiritually? How did it what was that like for you?

51:35

I don't know that it was the same every time. I I mean it really Coming back from Coming back from Ecuador.

51:45

I actually landed in Patagonia, Arizona And I was working at a raw superfood company down there and there's a healing center down there that's run by a rabbi

51:54

I don't know if you're familiar with that. But uh, so they and they're all it's all raw food and So it like I kind of just fell into that life and then

52:06

I think it just kind of is one of those things where you Yeah, you ride out the high of whatever that last big event or experience was and then

52:18

You become just satisfied and then you look for the next training or the next Attunement or the next healer that you need to see or You know, whatever like it's just and this is actually this is a good way to describe it that I was told by one of My spiritual teachers at the time.

52:36

She taught a couple different energy healing modalities super fringe I wouldn't expect anybody to have heard of them, but she lives in Tucson and would teach in Ventura, California So I would travel there

52:49

And actually one time I flew back from Ecuador to get to Ventura to go to one of her events and She would explain it like the

53:00

But like it was a good thing. She would explain the ascension process like the parking garage at the airport

53:09

Where you go up a level up a level up a level, you know and and and what she would say is when you get

53:14

Angry about the fact that you're dealing with the same trauma that you were dealing with before that you thought you had healed it's just that you've gone up a level and now and and and you're going you're moving up when you're doing the healing and then when

53:26

You're feeling it and feeling like you're stuck in the trauma You're on that level of the parking garage and you're just driving around level thinking that you're healed and like it was a positive thing

53:36

But there was never an end. There was never a top to unless you actually hit like full

53:43

Enlightenment. Yeah, there was never an end to it. Mm -hmm And I think that I mean even in the teal swan one of the women called it a carousel

53:51

Yeah, that was a great analogy Also, it's just a never -ending constant moving round and round and round and yet you never get anywhere because you're not

54:02

Like all things they weave just that you mentioned this before they weave just enough of the truth in That it seems like you're on the a good and right path

54:13

You know, but it's but it's not actually the truth because Jesus is the truth in the way in the life

54:18

So it's not you don't actually get what you're looking for back to that Jesus shaped hole.

54:23

Oh, yeah No, no a hundred percent and I think that's one of the I think one of the aspects to an Andrew You can give me your thoughts.

54:29

Is that when you're looking at? Just new age spirituality Versus the gospel versus biblical

54:36

Christianity what you see is a distinction between one ism one ism and two ism and two ism gives a very distinct it gives a distinction between the

54:45

Creator the triune God and us his image bearers who are his creation whereas One ism says it's all is one.

54:54

It's all one in the same. So when all is one all is self I think that's the the really the people giving over to a futile mind

55:03

And become futile on their thinking because of the fact that how do you us?

55:09

Where do you ascend to how do you ascend outside of yourself when all is self?

55:15

I mean the world view in and of itself is defeating. I think that's why just from a worldview standpoint

55:20

There's no true piece that these people ultimately can find it is truly

55:27

Within the world of one ism. There's no way to Ascend outside of the one or outside of the self ultimately

55:33

Andrew, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, my thoughts are you know, gee, it's it's so simple with with Jesus, right?

55:41

It's on the cross. He says it is finished, right? It is finished all Treasures of wisdom and knowledge are bound in Christ, right?

55:50

That's it. And that that's that's our example. It is finished But what we have with the New Age Spirituality movement we see that you're forever a working progress and when

55:58

I say forever They don't even just teach that this life like you said this life could have just been Preschool and me being a

56:04

Christian part of the white patriarchy. Maybe I'm in preschool preschool, you know at the level of my existence

56:10

But then you're still going on and on and on and on you're stuck in that airport Parking lot who wants to be stuck in an airport parking lot.

56:17

That sounds like hell to me You know the truth about the reality of the Bible in your relationship with God is that the perfection of peace with God was

56:26

Finished with Christ and his perfect work on the cross. But what we see with any counterfeit gospel with any counterfeit

56:35

Movement is that the work that Jesus did on the cross that wasn't enough

56:40

You have to obtain something yourself and what you find in that is it it'll never end. It will never ever end

56:48

It's It's quite simple You can have peace with God and that's put your faith in Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh who died on the cross

56:54

For your sins, you know, and it is finished your your salvation is bound up in him and it's a beautiful thing

57:01

Yeah, definitely. Let me ask you this too You know I was thinking about you know all the different types of teachings that you were into and especially when it comes to Especially like the allure that especially that has like the women who get caught up in the new age

57:13

And I thought about this just give me your thoughts on this specifically But a second Timothy 3 6 is talking about warning against, you know

57:21

False teachers and some of the things that they do sounds like you may know this but it says they are the kind that work their way into people's homes and when with and when the confidence of vulnerable women who are burdened with the guilt of sin and controlled by various desires

57:39

Specifically and it's I remember hearing a podcast with one of my friends Angela She's a former astrologer and she had one of her guests on and they were talking about when both of them came to Christ they would look at that passage and understand like the allure of the divine feminine like This verse summed up their whole process of when they're in the new age

57:59

For you like when you hear that verse like how does that resonate with you now given all that you know? Yeah, I'm I resonate with it as well.

58:08

And I really I I felt so I Felt so connected to the women that they showed in the teal swan

58:18

Hulu docu -series where they're just you can see it in their eyes They're just they're not happy and they're just looking for anything like where can

58:28

I get some joy? Where can I get some peace? Where can I get? you know some Some reprieve from all of this and they're going to false teachers and they're not getting they're never gonna be satisfied

58:40

They'll think they are for a moment and they'll probably even when you're paying $5 ,000 You're gonna trick yourself into thinking you were satisfied whether you liked it or not at the you know

58:48

Just for a little while just to not feel like an idiot for getting that kind of money But I totally relate to that.

58:54

I mean for me like I've really been working on I've never met fully memorized, you know a chunk or a verse in the

59:02

Bible and I've been working on Romans 1 18 through 25 because yeah me that sums up what my experience was in the

59:09

New Age, you know, just talking about You know worshipping and serving the the creation rather than the

59:16

Creator as one of them. Yeah, it became foolish exactly It's absolutely and that was actually just introduced to me recently that that very clear definition between one ism and two ism and it's it's so spot -on, you know, and I think that's something in the as I was coming out of it what

59:34

I realized and and started to be able to see was any I could almost

59:39

Just do a quick judge of things based on is this looking, you know

59:45

Is this idolizing or worshipping creation or is it pointing to the Creator? And and if it's if it's the first it's probably

59:53

New Age II, you know And if it's the second it's it's probably safe to proceed and then you know

59:58

Make make sure double -check in Scripture, but make sure and right, you know check with elders or something.

01:00:04

Yeah Yeah, no, no, definitely I know that one thing is last as we wrap up here is that what you also see in Romans 1 is that you see

01:00:10

Not only the worshipping of the creation Versus the Creator, but you see a meat and the byproduct of that is an immediate

01:00:18

Distortion of God's created older order of male and female Specifically when it comes to you know, there's aspect where it talks about, you know

01:00:26

Homosexuality as far as being a byproduct of that But even within paganism you see a distortion of that and that's why

01:00:32

I think in many ways when you actually look at The New Age world and I just don't know some people may misunderstand me part resonate

01:00:41

I think a lot of the men who are in the New Age. They're very effeminate That's right. Um, but also and but the women sort of become a lot more like hey,

01:00:49

I'm the goddess I'm the one who wears the pants in a sense And so there's that allure of like that divine feminine so you see a distortion of God's created order

01:00:58

And you saw that and I think one of the sad things too when you just mentioned you like teal swan Is that in Stephen Bancar's book second coming of the

01:01:06

New Age, which I'd highly recommend as a great resource Is that he says, you know in the New Age your only point of reference to God is you so if you're down and you're broken like you're only person that can save yourself as you and so there are moments when

01:01:22

I saw the teal swan when she's behind closed doors with her staff and she's Frustrated and trying to figure out, you know

01:01:29

What she's gonna do with whatever the situation was if you watch the documentary and she is, you know

01:01:34

Yelling saying explicitives that don't include the word, please and thank you You know, that's that's what

01:01:41

I saw I saw someone who's honestly who is broken and needed a savior and that just broke my heart, you know and I think that's really what we're trying to really do in this is we're not trying to just Go out there and it's attacking one specifically and we're trying to be like we're trying to bash you when we're trying to say

01:01:58

This is what we've seen people who get into the spirituality. There's no end in sight and but people who find

01:02:06

Christ it's this pearl of great price that that it's really that's really how what that parable sums up People such as yourself.

01:02:15

Yeah. Well, it really comes down to that idea of true love Warns of danger, right, you know and then what you were saying about the you know

01:02:24

The the God is yourself and that's all you have to look to you I saw this meme that was just like captured it so perfectly and it was comparing the

01:02:31

Christian Trinity to the New Age Trinity And so in the Christian Trinity, it's the Father Son and the

01:02:37

Holy Spirit And then they said the New Age Trinity is me myself and I Wow Yeah, and that's just spot -on, you know, you don't think you're being self -centered or narcissistic

01:02:48

But everything you're doing points to you everything you're doing points to what am

01:02:54

I healing right now? What shadow self is coming up in me? What it you said something and it triggered me So what am

01:02:59

I dealing with here, you know, and it's just very and you don't have any answers outside of yourself

01:03:04

No true. So on that note, you know Sometimes when we brought this up we've brought this issue up before and one of our previous episodes yoga

01:03:14

The question is when it comes to that was a big part of your story is yoga

01:03:19

We always try and throw this question out there people want to consider before we have any discussion about Whether you should or shouldn't do it, right?

01:03:26

And I in fact I made a post earlier today and it's already gotten a bunch of comments But the question is is yoga is it fundamentally a physical practice that just so happens to have some spiritual elements or is it?

01:03:37

Fundamentally a spiritual practice that that just so happens to have Some physical elements.

01:03:44

Did I say that correctly? Me too, yeah

01:03:49

Fundamentally a is a fundamentally spiritual or is it that just so happens to have physical components or is a fundamentally physical?

01:03:57

But that just so happens to have spiritual components So we're gonna answer that or get your thoughts in part two gonna leave people in the cliffhanger

01:04:05

So that's what we gotta do since do part one part two So if you guys enjoyed this podcast Definitely, let us know what you thought go ahead and leave us a review on iTunes

01:04:13

And there's always a program like this cannot continue without your support So if you want to support cultist go to the cultist show .com

01:04:18

You can go to the donate tab You can donate one time or monthly all that being said we'll talk to you guys in part two of the