Following Jesus Is Not the Gospel | Theocast

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Hi, this is Justin. Today on Theocast, we are talking about the fact that following Jesus is not the gospel.

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And if you're reading the title of the episode, you might be thinking, come on, guys. You're just trying to be shock jocks. You're just trying to split hairs.

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And our response to that is, no, we're not. We are going to have a really important conversation about the gospel and the nature of justification.

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We're going to talk about the order of salvation and how there are things that flow out of the new birth. There are things that are fruits of the gospel that are not the good news, and how this has everything to do with our peace before God now and in the future.

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So we're going to pound the desk today for justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

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And then we continue that conversation over in Semper Reformanda and maybe get a little bit more specific about ways that justification is under attack in our present day.

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We hope that you enjoy the conversation. A simple and easy way for you to help support Theocast each month is by shopping at Amazon through the

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Amazon Smile program. When you make a purchase through Amazon Smile, a portion of the proceeds will be donated to our ministry.

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To learn how to sign up, just go to theocast .org. Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ.

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Conversations about the Christian life from a confessional, Reformed, and pastoral perspective.

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Your hosts today are Jon Moffitt, who is pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee.

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And I'm Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina. We have met again today to podcast,

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Jon. Our title today is a punchy one. People have probably seen this title. If they know us well, they're probably okay.

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But if they don't know us that well, they're like, who in the world are these guys, and what are they going to talk about?

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Antinomians. Or are they a bunch of shock jocks who are just trying to get out of here?

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It's good to be here, and it's good to talk about this. My heart has already been warmed. My spirit has already been encouraged.

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Justin and I have already, pre -podcast, had the opportunity to bear each other's burdens and then point each other to Christ.

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As we often try to do, we've spent some time praying before the podcast to prepare our hearts for this. And I can tell you

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I'm excited to talk about Jesus once again this morning or whenever you're listening to it.

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But we record it in the mornings. Yes, Justin, this is definitely an interesting subject.

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It came up recently in a class I was teaching on how to study the Bible. We were covering law gospel.

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If you've not heard our episodes, we'll put them in the notes. There's a few episodes we've done on law gospel. We did one recently called,

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What Must I Do to Be Saved? We were dealing with some law gospel passages that often are confusing.

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Another particular one is in Matthew when Jesus says, pick up your cross and follow me.

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The question I posed was, is that law or is that gospel to follow

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Jesus? It's interesting because most people say it's gospel. So, Justin, what

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I'd like to do is define the gospel. Then we're going to explain, before we drop on what we think this is, what really

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Jesus is describing here. What he says, follow me, isn't gospel, but it's connected to the gospel. We'll explain what it is in a minute.

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But to understand the gospel, in shorthand, it's the declaration of things past.

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It's called news. When we go to watch the news or read the news, we're not reading what people project might happen.

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We're reading what has happened as events, as history facts.

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So, when Paul declares the gospel, I declared to you the gospel. He is talking about the birth, life, death, resurrection of Jesus Christ on the behalf of sinners.

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He is talking about what Christ accomplished, the work of Christ. Jesus says this himself, I've come to do the work of the

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Father. The gospel is the life and work accomplished by Jesus Christ.

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It is all past events. There's no potential to the gospel. If there's a potential to the gospel, that means you can be involved in it.

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You cannot be involved in the gospel. You can receive it as a gift. That's it. You cannot be involved in it.

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The law is, I love this phrase, the gospel is done and the law is due.

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Law is all potential. Law is all potential. What that means is, as Jesus told the lawyer, do this and live.

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Perfectly obey the law, do that and live. As Paul says, the second

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Adam, where the first Adam failed, the second Adam succeeded and brought many sons to glory.

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We fall short of the glory of God because of our sins. Christ obeyed the law and earned for us glory. That's what the law does.

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The law earns you righteousness before God so that you might earn yourself glory or the presence of the

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Father. That's the difference between the law and the gospel. When Jesus then says, take up your cross and follow me, that's not good news.

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That is a command to do something. With the results of obedience comes the promises.

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Justin, when we hear this phrase, follow me or following Jesus, how would you describe that in relation to the gospel and why is that not the gospel?

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So much that could be commented on right now. I'm opening my Bible, I'm looking at the confessions,

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I just want to talk about the gospel. I'm going to save some of that because I think we're going to come in on the back end and clarify even more and double down on what the gospel really is.

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The way that I would respond initially to your question, follow Jesus, how does that relate to the gospel?

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Is it the good news? No. I just want to be super clear. We're not trying to be shock jocks. We're not trying to split hairs here.

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No, but this matters. This matters a lot. I think that's going to become more clear as we unpack this and have this conversation.

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What we are trying to pound the desk for here at Theocast is what the confessionally reformed people have been pounding the desk over for hundreds of years now, and that's the good news.

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It's the nature of justification. How does it happen? For the person that may be new to Reformed theology, when

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Justin says that the confessionally reformed have been pounding the desk, what most people understand about the Reformation is that the

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Reformation and confessions recovered what was lost. We're not saying this is a new theology.

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We're saying this is a recovered theology, and this is why we appreciate it so much. This theology is biblical.

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What the Reformers were doing was recovering biblical theology that had existed from the mouths of various people, the pens of various people, and in various streams throughout the history of the church, but had largely been obscured in the medieval church of their time.

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They're recovering these things. For the last 500 years, confessional

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Reformed Christians have been articulating these same things and pounding the desk over and over again because, as we've alluded to before, every generation has to come to grips with the gospel, and every generation must defend justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone because it is always under assault, always.

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It's just hard for us as humans. We don't do well with this receiving thing. We do well in thinking about how we can achieve something and earn something, but when you tell me that I'm going to show up to a party and everybody's brought gifts, but I wasn't told to bring one, and you're just going to give me stuff,

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I'm uncomfortable. That's right. I digress.

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We're kicking back against this idea that following Jesus is the gospel because, historically,

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Christianity has kicked back against that. What I would say, and I know you're going to agree,

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John, because we talked about this beforehand, following Jesus is a fruit of regeneration, and we could even say a fruit of the good news.

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It is not the good news itself. That distinction really matters. As you already said, the good news itself has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with us in terms of anything we would do.

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Our response to the gospel is not the gospel. That's critical that we understand these things.

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The gospel has only to do with the person and work of Jesus Christ as our substitute and as our mediator.

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It's all about what he has done that we then simply receive by faith.

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Can I even add, even to Ephesians chapter 2, when Paul is describing the good news of the gospel, he says, and these good works that were predestined before the world that you should walk in them, meaning that it is a part of the outflow of the gospel.

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The moment you add to the gospel an action that's required, in other words, you can receive the good news if this happens, that is no longer good news.

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That's law. In Ephesians 2, faith is a gift. All of salvation is a gift.

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Acts 11, God grants repentance. All of this is the gift of God. What we're contending for here is clarity on the good news, and then let's talk biblically and accurately about outflows of or fruits of regeneration.

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When you hear us say regeneration, what we mean by that is the new birth affected by God via the proclamation of Christ in our place.

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Because Romans 10, 17, right? Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of Christ. How is it that we are born again?

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We hear the proclamation of the Lord Jesus. We are told of Christ, who he is and what he's done for us, and the

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Lord, through that, by his Spirit, effects the new birth. Then from regeneration flow a number of things.

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When we start to talk in these terms, John, I'm going to use some theological language here, and we're going to unpack this. Inevitably, in having this conversation, we're talking about something theologically known as the ordo salutis, the order of salvation.

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Regeneration is what starts that thing. Then from regeneration, we see produced in the believer faith, repentance, obedience, good works, all of those things.

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But they flow from this sovereign work of God that's grounded in the work of Christ. Jon Moffitt That's right.

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Order salutis is an old Latin word. It's important. The order of salvation or redemption.

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Jon Moffitt What Justin and I are going to try and do is we want to educate you on theology and history as we work through different confusing parts of the

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Bible. Certain phrases and theological terms come to life because of bad theology or confusing theology.

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The simple word trinity is a great example of this. We use the word trinity because there was a confusion on the nature of the triune

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God. There was confusion on the nature of Christ, and so we started using

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Trinitarian language or the word trinity came to be. Justin Perdue God is one in three.

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He is three and yet one. Jon Moffitt Right. This debate, you could even go back to the

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Canons of Dorrit, but this debate about what happens when became important because if you do not get this order correctly, you're going to lack assurance, and you're going to be adding works back into the gospel.

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This order became a fight, and the fight was necessary because it keeps the gospel in its place.

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A passage I would use to go back and argue for this would be one like Romans 8. It says,

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And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he also called he also justified, and those whom he also justified he also glorified.

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What do you have there? It's also known as the golden chain of redemption. You have a progression of what happens.

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If you go back to Paul's writings in Ephesians 2, you were dead in your trespasses and sins.

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He made you alive. Then where does good works come? Later down the chain. The good works come after he makes you alive.

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You see this progression in writing. Another great passage would be 2 Peter 1.

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Everything that we need for life and godliness has been granted to us by the sovereignty of God. Then what comes?

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He says, Now add to your faith what these good works. You always see that it's death, regeneration, faith, repentance, obedience.

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You see this over and over and over in Scripture. It's important that we keep it in that line because if we don't, we can get confused.

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Going back to the passage in Matthew where Jesus says, Pick up your cross and follow me. That whole capacity to do so has to be granted to you.

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This is why Paul says it's a gift of godliness any man should boast. Before we go back to the fruit of the gospel,

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I just want to make one reference to this whole follow me thing specifically here. Jesus throughout his whole ministry is attacking primarily one issue and it's self -righteousness.

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The Pharisees and the Jews were trying to earn God's favor through the law.

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This is why you have two separate stories of a lawyer and a rich man walking up to Jesus saying, What must

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I do to inherit eternal life? We dealt with those passages two or three weeks ago.

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As it airs, I'm not going to try to figure out the timeline. We did an entire episode on the cross as well, but I want to make it into a relationship here.

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I'm happy to riff on this for a minute in terms of what Jesus is confronting throughout his ministry. I'll go ahead and double down on that and say what the

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Apostle Paul is confronting too. I'm going to be really clear. I've been, just for teaching

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I'm doing in my own church, I've been doing a lot of reading on justification but then also ways in which in our day justification is under assault.

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I've been reading on things like the federal vision or final justification. I've been doing a decent amount of reading on the new perspectives on Paul.

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I'm going to go ahead and say this. I think it is an inaccurate representation of Second Temple Judaism, and by that I mean the

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Judaism that was existing when Jesus was on earth. I of course agree, John does too, that there was grace in it.

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You even hear the Pharisees' prayer in Luke 18 where he's thanking God that he's not like other men.

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It's not as though these people thought that it was just pure, crass legalism and righteousness of their own with no help from God, with no grace whatsoever.

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Of course, there was understanding that God in grace had chosen Israel as his people and that God in grace was their covenant

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God. But then, once in the covenant, they were then to keep the law.

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It was this kind of covenant gnomism. We're in the covenant and now we are all about law -keeping before the

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Lord. It has something to do with our standing before him, this keeping of the law.

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That's what Jesus is blowing up. If anything, it makes Christ and Paul more pointed to understand that there is absolutely grace in Judaism.

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It's not just crass legalism they're exploding. They're exploding a grace -plus theology. The fact that you have a first -century

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Jew thinking, I'm part of the covenant by grace and God has been gracious to us and now we need to keep the law to remain in good standing with God.

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We need to keep the law so that we will be finally saved. Christ comes into that context and says, no, you will not find your standing before the

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Lord by keeping the law unless you keep it perfectly. He explodes that notion of,

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I can either achieve righteousness through my obedience to the law or I am already there because I've been doing this well enough already a la the rich young man.

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I've done all these things since my youth. Christ confronts that, blows that up, and makes it plain that you will not keep the law adequately to be the ground of your standing before God.

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You need something else. You need grace. You need righteousness that you don't have.

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It needs to be given to you, not earned by you. Paul's doing the same thing, most pointedly maybe in his letter to the

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Galatians, but also in Romans and elsewhere. He's confronting this kind of grace -plus ideology, this

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Jesus -plus thing, and he says no. It's all or nothing. It is either you keeping the whole law or you are trusting

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Christ for everything. That's right. There is nothing you contribute. That's right. Going back,

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Jesus in this section is dealing with men who are presenting themselves as being acceptable.

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This is where we miss the point of the cross. The cross is not an affectionate thing for Jews.

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Jesus hasn't died yet. This is not a good thing. It's the most crass and cruel way of death for the worst of criminals.

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Let me rephrase it to modern -day language. What's the most brutal way we can think of that the human in modern -day world has found a way to murder somebody, or sorry, take their life out of justice?

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I would say the electric chair is pretty brutal. That would be as if we were to rephrase it, and Jesus says, you need to understand how to perceive yourself.

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You need to go sit in an electric chair. That's how you should see yourself, and then come follow me. The point of it was you need to understand how bad this situation is.

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You're the criminal against God. At that moment, then you'll find why you need me.

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It's at that moment you'll understand why I am your only hope. I am your only solution.

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Because then he says, if you die, you'll have life, but if you try and save your life, you're going to lose it. Saving your life means you're trying to hold on to your own righteousness.

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You're trying to hold on to your own deeds. That whole idea is Jesus is just squashing self -righteousness right in front of them.

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The whole concept of being able to follow Jesus, but being even aware of your own sin, is a gift from God.

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To be clear, Jesus isn't giving them an ultimatum as a means or a way in which they have a capacity to follow him.

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He isn't. He's just trying to show them how dire straight their situation is. We have to be clear in that the order must always be,

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I was dead, he made me alive, I repented, and I believed. This order is so important because I do believe a lot of writers write in such a way where they're assuming this.

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They understand this to be the truth. Going back to this concept of following Jesus, I believe that if you're going to be a true disciple of Jesus, you must follow him, but it's the fruit of what

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God has done inside of you. If you're new to Theocast, we have a free e -book available for you called

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Faith vs. Faithfulness, A Primer on Rest. If you've struggled with legalism, a lack of assurance, or simply want to know what it means to live by faith alone, we wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a

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Reformed confessional perspective. You can get your free copy at theocast .org

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slash primer. I think what we have to say, too,

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I at least want to say this, and you can redirect us, John, if you want when I'm done. Not only is it following Jesus in this example, or fill in the blank, repentance, obedience, good works, not only are those things fruit of regeneration, and in one sense, fruit of the good news, the fruit of the work of Christ for us that we receive.

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What this means, though, if we understand the gospel correctly, and if we understand justification correctly, there is no potential anything.

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It's all accomplished. Present justification and union with Christ guarantees final salvation.

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That ought to influence and affect, needless to say, how we talk about the Christian life in obedience and good works and following Jesus.

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We ought not make it sound like a trip to the DMV. We ought not make it sound hard in the way that we often make it sound hard.

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Of course it's hard in that we are battling the corruption of our flesh. Of course it's hard.

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We live in a fallen world. I mean, we're groaning, man. It's really difficult, and you're mindful,

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I'm mindful of the ways that I'm battling against my flesh and my fallen nature right now, and have been this morning, and am doing throughout the course of my days.

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Everybody listening to the sound of my voice is doing the same thing. Of course it's hard, but we ought not talk about good works and obedience and following Jesus as though it's just this brutally difficult thing.

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We ought to talk about it as the good thing that it is. We've been brought from death to life.

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We've been united to Christ. We've been brought from darkness, the kingdom of darkness, and have now been given an inheritance in the kingdom of God's beloved

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Son. Now here's how we live in Him. Let's talk about it with the certainty of our final salvation that's real.

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Romans 5, 1, Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our

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Lord Jesus Christ. He's going to go on to say that we rejoice, we literally, we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

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Why? Because of what Jesus has accomplished that's now been given to us. There's no potential. This is certain.

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He goes on to say that literally we have hope because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the

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Holy Spirit who's been given to us. And that's not our love to God. It's God's love for us has been poured into our hearts by the

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Spirit. Romans 5, 6 -11 It's so obvious that we have nothing to do with this.

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It has everything to do with who our mediator is. Because we were enemies, we were weak, we were sinners, and at that time,

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Christ died for us. And now, if while we were enemies, well, verse 9, excuse me, since therefore we've now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God.

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We've been justified, we will be saved from God's wrath. Certain. Verse 10, if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by His life.

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More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we have now received reconciliation. This is certain stuff, bro.

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Amen. Well, going back to following Jesus, adding to what you're saying about the certainty, that would mean, so like if every disciple that followed

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Jesus, they could say, I am saved because I followed Jesus. That would be the good news.

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The problem with that is that they actually have now reasons to boast because everyone who did not decide to follow Jesus is basically, it's their own fault.

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Judas decided to follow Jesus. Judas proved to not be a believer. So the act of following Jesus is not the good news of regeneration.

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I think it's so important for us to understand that. When it says so that no one may boast, you need to understand you're going to stand before the

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God of the universe, and as you stand there, you're going to be worshiping Him saying, you saved me.

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You rescued me. You caused me to come to life. You put your spirit in me.

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You caused me to obey you. As frail and as weak as I am, all of that glory and all that praise goes to you.

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I followed Jesus because you rescued me, and you adopted me, and you made me

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His brother. I mean, all of these kind of things, it's important that we wrestle with all of these passages of Scripture and we look at them all at once.

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The problem, Justin, when we look at passages and say, well, this is Jesus talking about eternal life, and He says, follow me.

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That's biblicism, to not look at the context, not look at what other passages say in the

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Bible. That's biblicism, and it's not good. You think biblicism is a good word? It's not. It's a bad word because it detaches all of Scripture from itself, and it also detaches theology, and it's important that we understand this debate is not new, and this mistake is dangerous because the moment you add action into the gospel,

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I will leave one pressure point. Help me out on the passage. I'll have to look it up here in a second, but Paul says, blessed are those who obeyed the gospel.

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Well, I think the point in that is what he means is that they believed the gospel.

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Justin Perdue What's the obedience of faith? Romans 1, Romans 16. When he says obey the gospel, that's what

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I think Paul means. People trusting Christ. I know you agree. Really briefly on biblicism while we're here, this bears repeating.

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Biblicism is, like you said, people go to passages in the Bible and just read it and say, well, see, it says this, but what you're doing there is you're going to a passage.

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You're reading it in isolation apart from any kind of coherent theological framework, and what you're doing is you're, with the best of intentions, you're pitting one passage against another, and you're introducing mystery and confusion into a situation that the

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Bible has not put that mystery there. There is mystery in the plan of God.

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There is mystery in how all of these things hang together. We only know what's been revealed to us, so there is mystery, but we want to put mystery in the right place.

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We don't want to introduce mystery where there is no mystery, and biblicism does that all the time. Exhibit A, Jesus. Like you were just saying,

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Jesus says a number of things about eternal life during his earthly ministry as recorded by the evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

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On the one hand, this is what biblicists will do. They'll say, you know, over here, Jesus, when people ask him about eternal life, he tells them to keep the law.

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Over here, when Jesus is asked about eternal life, he talks about believing in him. You know, it's mysterious.

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We don't know how these things go together, so clearly we need to believe in Jesus and we need to keep the law.

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That's what the biblicists will say, to which we would say, well, you can either do that and kind of create this tension and mystery that don't exist and kind of pit the two against each other, or you can understand that one actually provides the other.

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Namely, faith in Christ imputed righteousness. His obedience as a human born under the law in your place is how you would be counted as a law keeper.

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That's good theology. That's biblical, whole Bible theology that makes sense, man.

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It's tried and true. It's what the Christians have been confessing this for two millennia.

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Then we come in and start introducing all these things into the situation and create this just disastrous situation where we're literally confused about the heart of the gospel, how it is that we're justified before a holy

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God. Well, going back, and I failed to reference the passage, so I'll do it now for those of you that are probably wondering.

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It's Matthew 16, like 20 through 27, that issue of the pick up your cross.

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So, Justin, this is not a trick question, but I think you'll understand the sentiment. If we do believe that following Jesus is the gospel, what does it mean to follow

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Jesus then? That is the absolute most important question in the universe.

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If the gospel means follow Jesus, what does that mean? I think what most people mean when they say follow

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Jesus, assumed in it, is belief in Him. Absolutely true. But then also alongside that, it's living in the way that Jesus taught us to live.

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That's what I think people mean. I do. That we are a disciple. We are being taught not only what to believe but how to live.

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It's our adequate doing of that that would deem us worthy to be called a follower of Jesus.

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I think it's entirely good to use that language of follower of Christ. I'm a Christ follower. Amen. But to follow

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Christ is not the good news. Jesus is the good news, man. I'm receiving what

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Christ has done for me. And now, so you understand, I'm using sequential language.

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And now, having received the merits and righteousness of Christ, the holiness, the righteousness, the satisfaction of Christ, to use the language of Heidelberg question 60, now

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I go about following Him. Now I go about learning His law. I go about learning

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His ethic. And I seek to conform myself to that by the Spirit. But that is not the good news.

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It's an outflow. Here's an illustration. Just as I told you, in order for you to gain eternal life, you must fly from here to Germany.

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You must fly. And you're going, well, I can't. And then

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I provide you a jet. And I put you into the jet. And now you're flying.

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That's what's going on here. Here's what you need for eternal life.

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You need righteousness. Well, I don't have that right. And then you were brought into that righteousness by grace through faith alone, through Christ alone.

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And now you are being transported by Christ. And you now follow Him as your guide and lead.

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That's what we're talking about. Edward Fisher, in his book The Marrow of Modern Divinity, Footnotes by Thomas Boston, there's a beautiful footnote.

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It's really Boston's footnote that makes this most plain. He'll talk about how we will make our way back to God via the way in which we failed

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Him. We failed to keep the covenant of works. We will make our way back to God via keeping a covenant of works.

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But here's the thing. God the Son incarnate carries us the entire way. That's what he says.

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We will return to God the same way that we fell from Him. It's just that Christ carries us the whole way.

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We don't do it. Your jet analogy is beautiful. Because it's like, okay, keep the law.

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You need to fulfill this covenant obligation of life before the Lord this way.

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But here's the thing. None of you can do it. You can't do it. Christ, as a man, came and did it.

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And He carries us. Brief interjection, if I can. I just want to say this. And this is related.

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When we talk about the righteousness that we receive from Christ, sometimes people object to the

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Reformed understanding of justification by saying that it makes no sense for God to give

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His own righteousness to us. And we want to say, all right, now look. You need to understand what we're saying.

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The righteousness that we are given is the righteousness of Jesus Christ as a human being.

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This is why He had to come as a man. Right. God the Son was incarnate and made a man via His miraculous conception in the womb of the

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Virgin Mary. Now, I know that Roman Catholics use miraculous conception in a different way. But I'm just saying it was miraculous.

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He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. The power of the Most High overshadowed her. And God the Son became a man for our salvation.

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This is what we confess in the Nicene Creed. It's what we confess in the Apostles' Creed, etc. He did that so that He could accomplish all righteousness as a human being.

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And that righteousness, Him as our substitute, as our representative, just like we were imputed with the corruption and the sin of Adam, we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ as a man.

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And that's what we receive. And it's important that we talk precisely about this stuff, John, lest people get it twisted and object to the biblical doctrine of justification.

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And this is what this is all going down to. So when you're thinking about order of salvation, we must first start with justification and then move to sanctification.

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Let me put it this way. Following Jesus is the result of our sanctification. It is not justification.

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So these two things collapse. This is what happened in Roman theology in that basically there's no difference between your justification and your sanctification.

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And if you're new to this theology, let me explain what I mean by that. To be justified means to be made right or to be declared right.

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We're not made right at the moment, although we will be one day, but we're declared right. Glorification is to be made right. So justification means that you were in debt and you owed.

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And Christ cleared the debt and then gave you what you owed so that you now, in your standing before God, are now just.

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You're justified. Now you are declared what you are not.

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You are not righteous. You are not sinless. You're declared that, but you're not.

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Sanctification is the process by which God is now transforming you to reflect what has been declared, but it will always be imperfect.

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I think this is a good moment for me to read from our confession. This is the Lenten Baptist Confession. It's going to be the same in the

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Westminster. And Justin, I know you had something from the Heidelberg. This is chapter 16 on good works. And this is what

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I think is important when I'm talking about the difference between sanctification and justification. It says here in point three, their ability to do good works does not arise at all from themselves, but entirely from the

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Spirit of Christ. To enable them to do good works, they need, in addition to the graces they have already received and an actual influence of the same

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Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do for His good pleasure. See, it's a flow and response of.

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It's not within our abilities. So even now, as justified sinners who are now considered to be saints, children of God, the ability to do these good works still doesn't come from our flesh.

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It still comes with the power of the Spirit. That's sanctification. This is why we say both your salvation and the transformation are works of God's sovereign work.

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It's called monergistic, meaning one doing the work. So to say that you're adding in following Jesus or whatever work you want to put in there, repentance, making

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Jesus Lord of your life, whatever phrase you want to put in there, you're putting sanctification prior to justification.

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You're reversing it, and you can't do that. It has to stay in the right order. Otherwise, you're putting a work into salvation and you have reasons to boast.

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Going back really quickly to the Roman Catholic understanding of justification, I don't think it's a caricature or unfair to, in a succinct way, summarize their view in this way.

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They effectively, functionally taught justification via sanctification.

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They still do. Right. But I'm talking about in the context of the Reformation, the medieval church, and how

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Reformation doctrine stands in stark contrast. The Council of Trent, excuse me, from the middle of the 16th century has not been recanted officially by the

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Church of Rome. So they effectively taught that you were justified via the means of sanctification because as you were, it's faith and love and cooperation with God and all these kinds of things, that resulted in your final salvation.

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And when we say justification, we mean, like you said, the declaration of God that we are just in His sight now and forever.

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The present declaration means something for our future and it means to be justified.

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So this is my synopsis of Heidelberg 60, and then I also want to read from the 1689 as well. Heidelberg question 60 is great.

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How are you righteous before God? And you confess. It's by faith in Christ.

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But then we say that although I have broken all of God's commands and I've never really kept any of them and I am still inclined toward all evil, yet by faith, just because out of God's sheer grace, by faith

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I am counted with the holiness, righteousness, and satisfaction of Jesus Christ. It is as though I have never sinned nor been a sinner.

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And it is as though I myself have worked all of the obedient works that Christ did. And all of this

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I receive with a believing heart. That's some good news there now in terms of what it means to be justified. Now, here's the 1689 confession.

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Chapter 11, paragraph 1 on justification. I'm just going to read it. I could unpack it, but I'm just going to let the words stand on their own.

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Those God affectionately calls, He also freely justifies. He does this not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins and accounting and accepting them as righteous.

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He does this for Christ's sake alone and not for anything produced in them or done by them.

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He does not impute faith itself, the act of believing, or any other gospel obedience to them as their righteousness.

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Instead, He imputes Christ's active obedience to the whole law and passive obedience in His death as their whole and only righteousness by faith.

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This faith is not self -generated. It is the gift of God. Beautiful words.

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Beautiful words. Justin, I know that we're getting to the end, and I want to say some things that are a little pointed here.

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Say all the things, John. That's right. Don't just say some of them. Let it go. This will lead us into Semper Ephraimanda. If any denomination, any man, any doctrine, any whatever person begins to teach contrary to this theology, it doesn't matter how big their platform is.

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It doesn't matter what their history is or even if they label themselves to be Reformed. It is important that we are trying to argue from Scripture.

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We're trying to show from the Bible and not only that, how men, godly men for hundreds of years have had to clarify and defend this because it's so easily to slip back in.

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The heart naturally desires to want to be legitimized. We want to legitimize our actions.

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We want to say that we've contributed. This is why Jesus says you must die. You must abandon.

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Paul says all of my works of righteousness are of filthy. They're of no value. I don't care who they are or how famous they are.

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If someone begins to add or reverse this order in any way and requires something of someone outside of the gift of God, they're wrong.

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This is why we use the confessions. We're not using them as if they're on par with Scripture. What's great about the confession is that they are pointing out the error of where someone else got it wrong and then it's been examined.

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These confessions, the reason why we still love to use them is that they have been examined by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people over these last hundred years.

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I would say thousands of people and confirmed and have stood the test of time saying, yes, this is accurate with Scripture and this is a good explanation defending bad theology, defending against bad theology.

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I would just simply state that we use the confessions and we confess the confessions and we subscribe to the confessions because they're biblical.

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Sometimes people get it twisted a little bit. We use the confession in as much as it's biblical.

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It's like, no, we use this because it's been assessed and it is biblical. That's the conclusion that we have drawn.

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When we read language from these things, good gracious, like you said, it sounds like the words of the Scriptures and it sounds like the teaching of the apostles.

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Justin Perdue Can I say something real quick and then I'll let you If someone reads the

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Bible and then gives you the explanation of what it means, they're giving you a confession. So Justin, if we read

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Take up your cross and follow me and then someone says this is what that means, you just gave me a confession. Well, you've given me interpretation and that means you've given me a confession.

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You're confessing what you believe to be true about the text. The question is, is your confession examinable and does it stand the test of time?

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That's the issue. I'm just going to go and leave this here. Colossians 1 is a great example of this, the whole letter to Colossae, but then a number of the other letters of the apostles,

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Paul and others. I think an honest survey of the

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New Testament epistles makes this plain that I'm about to say. It's obvious in the mind of Paul and others that the thing that will guard the saints from false teaching and aberrant practice in the church is one thing, and that is a clear vision of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

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That is what the confessions guard. The confessions guard that news and they guard that presentation of Jesus, his person rightly understood, his work rightly understood, and that is the thing that will protect the church.

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At the heart of the matter is this, it always is. We come back around again and again to the good news of Jesus Christ and the nature of our justification.

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It's been a good conversation today, bro. We're about to keep talking, though. We're going to say some more things. John and I record a second podcast every week called

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Semper Reformanda. It is for those who have partnered with Theocast to see this message of Christ, Christ for you, the sufficiency of Christ for you spread as far and wide as possible.

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As a piece of being an SR member, you get access to this additional content each week. In addition, you get access to the

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SR app where there's a great community being built of people encouraging each other and posting things. I like to say it's like Facebook, but better.

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Without all the nonsense, it's just really sweet and encouraging. I am really encouraged by what the

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Lord is doing through Semper Reformanda. If you want to find out more information about how you could become a

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Semper Reformanda member, you can find all that info over at our website, theocast .org. We'll leave that to you.

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John, anything else that I'm missing? You often are better at the nuts and bolts than I am. There are sometimes things that pop into your brain and you're like, wait, wait, wait,

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I want to say something else. Anything? Yeah, no, we're working on answering questions over on SR as well. For those of you that would like to hear us answer different theological questions, you can leave us voicemails and we'd love to answer those.

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Yeah, and if we don't answer your question, don't be offended. All right. There that is. We're going to head over there.

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We're going to talk with a number of you in just a minute on SR. For those of you who are not yet SR members, we'll talk to you again in this format next week.