Does Too Much Grace Lead to Sin? | Theocast

Theocast

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:02

Hi, this is John. Today on Theocast, Justin and I answer the question, can you really emphasize grace too much?

00:11

Does grace lead to licentiousness? Does grace lead to sin? This is really a valuable conversation because I know there's a lot of people who are trapped in between this argument.

00:22

And so we try our best to be gracious and kind and even open to reason, thinking through the arguments.

00:28

And I hope and I pray you find some solutions to the answers. We provide a lot of scripture references in this podcast.

00:36

Stay tuned. If you'd like to help support Theocast, you can do that by leaving us a review on iTunes and subscribing on your favorite podcast app.

00:44

You can also follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Plus, we have a Facebook group if you'd like to join the conversation there.

00:50

Thanks for listening. Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ.

01:07

Conversations about the Christian life from a Reformed pastoral and confessional perspective. We here are trying to clarify the gospel today and reclaim the purpose of the kingdom.

01:17

And I am with in person in Asheville, North Carolina, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church, Justin Perdue, one of the hosts of Theocast.

01:27

And myself, I'm Jon Moffitt. I'm the pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Jon, I think it's safe to say that we are both weary pilgrims.

01:35

Man, we are. We got coffee in us at least. We have been burning it hard since you guys got here.

01:41

A lot has gotten accomplished. Got a lot done. It's been productive. For Grace Reformed Network, for Theocast, for personal fellowship, encouragement.

01:48

And we are in the 11th hour of our trip here. That's right. Metaphorically speaking, you guys are going to be hitting the road soon.

01:54

And we are all tired. And if you didn't hear last week's episode, or I don't know when these are all coming out, we are recording with the doors open so we can enjoy the outdoors.

02:03

So if you hear cars and planes. We got a pretty sweet garage door at the back of our office that is cool.

02:09

That's a lot of natural light in. That's right. We like to open it up sometimes. Yeah. A couple of announcements before I turn it over to Justin for our subject today.

02:15

For those of you that don't know, coming very soon is a special event that Justin and I will be a part of called the

02:23

Grace Reformed Network First Meeting that we're having. And part of this, we're opening up to anyone that wants to come.

02:32

It's going to be October the 3rd and 4th, which is a Tuesday and Wednesday. Those are both all day are going to be a special basically mini conference, a special event where we're going to be covering topics like law, gospel, distinction, like lectures that you and I are going to be teaching.

02:47

Talks, yeah. Law, gospel, distinction. What does it mean to be confessional? That's right. Covenant theology, saint -centered reality.

02:53

That's right. With panel discussions with pastors. And then each Tuesday night and Wednesday night, we haven't decided which night, but you and I are going to be preaching.

03:00

We'll be singing in time of fellowship. We'll be singing and preaching. So to just reiterate, everybody is invited those first two days.

03:09

Anyone can come. The last day on Thursday, October 5th, will be reserved for people, the churches that want to be a part of the network as we start the network formally.

03:18

But those first two days are open to anyone to attend. So you can register at graceformnetwork .org. We leave that to you.

03:25

And registrations are limited in terms of just seating capacity. So if you want to come, go ahead and register soon. Yeah, there's only,

03:30

I forget what's like 120, 150, I can't remember. 150 or so. We're hosting it at a church venue there in Metro Nashville, Tennessee.

03:38

So we'd love to see you there. Yeah. So please register for that. If you have any questions, let us know.

03:44

And then just a couple of other announcements. We send out book recommendations every week now.

03:50

So if you're not getting that, go to our website, homepage, scroll down to the bottom, put your email in there. And for any of you that are digging in, even as we speak, the

03:57

Gerhardus Vox, Biblical Theology, may the Lord bless you. And may the Lord give you fruitful study.

04:03

Yes. I just taught a class on Biblical Theology. It's part of TheocastU. If you want to go listen to that class as part of our membership there, you can do so.

04:10

All right, Justin, that is all the announcements. It's enough for this week. I'll say this, a lot of times people think we're in the same location when we record and we're not.

04:20

So this is a special treat for us. And we're together this week. And so yeah, talk to us about something that I think it's going to be, it's important for you and me because as pastors, this really is, we deal with it every day.

04:37

So talk to us. I'll acknowledge this, and then this is not what we're going to be talking about for the rest of their time.

04:45

There are people that listen to Theocast or read some of the things that we write, and they will levy accusations.

04:53

And they will say that we are preaching a kind of radical grace. I'm not exactly sure what that means because the grace of God is pretty radical as I read the scripture.

05:04

Or they'll say we're overemphasizing grace. I struggle with that statement too. It's like, I don't know that we can say too much about God's grace.

05:12

But what they mean is that we are preaching grace and emphasizing grace in such a way that it actually would lead people to sin, or it at a minimum would make people comfortable in their sin.

05:26

It might foster and coddle people so that there's not a real confrontation of sin.

05:32

There's not earnestness when it comes to the preaching of repentance and holiness and things like this.

05:39

So people say that. That's an age -old concern about the preaching of the gospel. I think you see that even in the pages of scripture.

05:46

So we do encounter this semi -regularly where people say these things.

05:53

So that's in our minds a little bit. We want to try to clarify and shed some light on this topic.

06:00

Having said that, the title of the podcast is Does Too Much Grace Lead to Sin?

06:08

It's a legitimate question. In our human brains, we tend to think that it does, which is exactly why

06:14

Paul anticipates that at the end of Romans 5 going into Romans 6. So our answer is quite the opposite actually.

06:24

Does too much grace lead to sin? No. Actually, it is the preaching of Christ, and it is the heralding of God's grace and his mercy, his patience, his gentleness that leads the saints to repentance.

06:39

It actually draws us to it, and it produces all kinds of good things in the church and in the saints that comprise the church.

06:47

It leads to and fosters sanctification. It leads to the confession of sin.

06:54

I'll start off by saying this, and I know this is true of Grace Reformed Church. At Covenant Baptist Church, over the course of just the last several years, we've had a number of instances where people have confessed for the first time in their

07:09

Christian lives real sin. It's serious, long, besetting stuff that I think in their minds and hearts is a shame.

07:21

They felt ensnared. They felt trapped. They felt enslaved at times. These individuals, as they come out and confess, it is one of the most sobering and joyful experiences that I've had as a pastor to sit and talk with these dear saints who love the

07:40

Lord and who are grieved by their sin and then confess it. They say things like this.

07:50

This is the first time in my Christian life that I have felt safe enough and free enough to confess this.

07:58

I am so thankful for the elders of this church. I am so thankful for this congregation.

08:03

I am so thankful for the way Christ is preached and the way that God's grace is preached and the way the law and the gospel are preached, because it has made it possible for me to confess this.

08:17

I've been harboring this for years, and I'm saying it now tearfully.

08:24

I've never felt more free. I feel like this weight has been removed from me.

08:31

I'm just so thankful. I have chill bumps on my arms right now because I'm thinking this is so good.

08:44

Praise the Lord for His kindness and mercy and the complete and utter sufficiency of Christ as a

08:52

Savior. The fact that He's our righteousness and the forgiveness of our sins and the guarantee of our eternal life and the fact that we preach that week over week.

09:02

Thank God that that produces this in the saints, and it leads to real sanctification and growth.

09:10

It leads to real change. That's my opening shot here.

09:18

I know I spoke for just a few minutes. I'm sorry for that, brother. I care about this. I know you do too.

09:24

We're sincere. No, it doesn't lead to sin. That's right. I'll give some biblical examples here of why we base these arguments here.

09:34

I'll start, and I know where we're going to ping pong all over the place. I just want to think first about repentance and confession for a second.

09:42

The Bible calls us to confess and repent our sins. If you picture this, what's sitting there waiting for them on the other end of this interaction that happens?

09:55

We don't read Scripture, and it says, come confess your sin, and we're going to give you a plan to fix what you did.

10:03

Come confess your sin, and we'll put you on probation. Yep. Come confess your sin, and here's how you're going to make it right. Here's how you're going to pay for it.

10:10

Yeah. No, he says, here's your penance. He is faithful and just to forgive you of your sins and cleanse you from all.

10:18

Wait a minute here. You tell me I'm preaching too much grace.

10:24

1 John literally says, when you confess your sins, grace is waiting for you on the other end, not works, not condemnation.

10:34

That's just not what's happening. I can't but think of Hebrews 4 when it says, in time of need, what's waiting for you?

10:44

You approach the throne of grace with boldness to ask for mercy and grace in your time of need.

10:52

You are literally putting bold affections towards God's grace. That's what he means.

10:58

Because you know mercy and grace is waiting for you.

11:04

Yeah. You can come in with confidence as a broken sinner. I don't mean broken like, oh, oops, something happened.

11:11

No, you broke it. It's your fault. You did this. What's waiting for you is not work harder.

11:17

It's not punishment. It's not condemnation. Guys, please hear us when we say this.

11:24

We are cleansed from our sins so we can be set free from it, not to reenter into Right. Our response is not somebody comes and confesses grave, maybe even heinous sin.

11:35

We've said this before. We don't recoil in horror. That's true. But our response is like, oh, well, that's okay.

11:41

Absolutely not. That's insane. I think that's often how this is misunderstood and misrepresented.

11:49

It's as though grace is a way that we can call something that's wrong, okay.

11:56

That's right. No, we're not using grace to call something that is wrong, right.

12:02

We need grace, and God gives grace because real wrong needs to be dealt with.

12:08

That's right. I'll go personal like you were and pastoral.

12:17

For me, the longer I've been in ministry, it does make sense. The reason why our children at times or people in general hide their sin, their crimes, what they've done wrong, is that they're worried about the consequences.

12:30

The repercussions. That's right. The hammer's going to drop. That's right. I think later in the pod we should talk about there's a difference between the forgiveness of the father and earthly ramifications.

12:42

Of course. Right. Like if you murder somebody, the father does forgive you, but you have to receive the consequences. You may be in jail for the rest of your life.

12:48

That's right. Or stealing or whatever you want to abuse, whatever you put in there. We don't believe Christians should carte blanche be the law of the earth.

12:59

God's given the sword for that. I know Christian churches have done this.

13:05

I know they abused their children, but they received forgiveness, and we're offering forgiveness. Whoa. We could even talk too about how forgiveness and reconciliation is one category, but restoration is a different one.

13:21

That's right. We could talk about those distinct things. Staying in this lane for the moment before we get off onto another road. Potentially.

13:27

Yeah. Justin, if we were to try just off the top of our heads to walk through examples of this almost in every book of the

13:35

Bible, you would find it, right? Let's start with the first story, Adam and Eve.

13:41

Sure. What did God offer them immediately? He didn't offer them a workspace solution.

13:47

He didn't. They were afraid. They were ashamed. He doesn't tell them to do anything.

13:55

That's right. He doesn't command them anything. He doesn't require anything of them. He speaks and effectively says, here's what

14:03

I'm going to do. He presents to them the full effects of their sin and then says, I'm going to punish somebody else.

14:09

Then you move on. At the end of Genesis 3, he provides covering for them. Of their shame.

14:15

Exactly. That's right. You can just take the broader story of Israel, which ends up becoming the broader message of the

14:21

Old Testament. God, time and time again, through the Psalms and the Old Testament, what do you hear? The faithful, amazing grace of God.

14:31

He forgives iniquity. He forgives transgression. He forgives sin. Let's just quote Christ here for a second when he says,

14:38

I have not come to be a judge. But he will when he returns. In his first coming, he's offering grace to the sinner.

14:46

He's offering grace. I think it's important that even part of your prayer life is the confidence.

14:53

Lord, forgive us our debts. We were just talking about this the other day when you were saying, I pray this in the morning because at times

14:58

I feel like such a sinner. I need God's grace to make it through the day.

15:04

Right. Forgive me for my sins and protect me from the evil one. Those are things that I pray each day.

15:11

In our churches, I know both of our churches, we do a prayer of confession. At the beginning of our services.

15:19

Some people, it's very uncomfortable for them when they first start coming. One of the criticisms is that we don't want to do a red prayer.

15:27

I think it's interesting, but I'm not getting into that today. But the concept of corporate confession, they're not used to people gathering saying, no, it's

15:38

God's grace we need, so we receive. Then it's God's grace we celebrate in our singing. It's interesting.

15:48

I have seen doctrines created off of one verse. That's never good. You don't want to build a theology off of one verse.

15:56

That's right. But this is not the case. It's like the whole entire narrative of the Bible is centered around the grace of God.

16:04

When you say it's radical, it's overemphasized. If I were to reword what they're saying,

16:11

I understand their concern. I would say it's not an overemphasis.

16:18

If you're saying we are emphasizing one without the other, then we would push back and say, actually, we aren't saying that you can live in sin or that disobedience is okay.

16:35

Because if we were saying that, then your accusations would be correct. Grace is radical.

16:40

Correct. If we were saying that because of grace, it doesn't matter how you live.

16:49

Well, even some of the things that we've said about the saint -centered reality in Romans 7 and indwelling corruption, etc.

16:57

If we were saying that, well, indwelling sin, so you're going to sin and whatever.

17:04

I don't know what to do. I'll interject here. If that was our posture, that would be a very different matter altogether.

17:11

I've been accused of that in the past where somehow people have concluded that I tell men in our church, well, you're going to struggle with lust.

17:19

You're going to look at porn, but just trust in the grace of God. I'm like, whoa. I hold the view very strongly that sin is slavery, that it's an utter offense to my

17:29

God. There's no way I'm just going to put a pepper on that and be like, don't worry about it. Slavery and offense, it's like, to use the language of the apostles, why would you engage in things against which the wrath of God is coming?

17:45

That's serious. Also, like Paul, toward the end of Romans 6, what was sin doing for you anyway?

17:52

Why would you want to do this? Why would you want to engage in this? He's already said you've been united to Christ.

17:59

You've been justified from sin's guilt. You've been set free from its tyranny, and you've become obedient from the heart.

18:05

Oh, by the way, what was it doing for you? Nothing good. It ends in death.

18:12

We talk like this, you and me. You and I, we talk this way on the pod, but we also talk this way in our pulpits, and we talk this way with our people.

18:24

What's interesting is that we assume that heavy, fearful guilt law preaching will lead someone to repentance.

18:34

It does temporarily, Justin. It really does. They will temporarily repent. There will be a means where they're okay, but over time, fear doesn't become enough.

18:47

Fear is actually a terrible motivator over the long haul. It's a flash, and it's gone.

18:58

I was having a conversation with another pastor here in the city just the other day, and he brought this up.

19:05

I can't remember exactly in the context why it came up, but he was observing the same thing.

19:10

He said it's remarkable how people think that heavy -handed, exacting, threatening, and brow -beating people with the law effectively have no gospel in it whatsoever.

19:23

That's what he meant. People think that's what is needed in order to get people to repent or to get people to take obedience and holiness seriously.

19:32

He's saying this to me. Do they not know that it is the mercy and the gentleness and the kindness of the Lord that leads to repentance?

19:40

He's entirely right. If you're new to Theocast, we have a free eBook available for you called

19:48

Faith vs. Faithfulness, A Primer on Rest. If you've struggled with legalism, a lack of assurance, or simply want to know what it means to live by faith alone, we wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a

19:59

Reformed confessional perspective. You can get your free copy at theocast .org.

20:09

Well, I don't know who taught me this years ago. The apostles do a sandwich effect.

20:17

If you read how they begin, they'll start with the gospel and the hope of Christ. Then they bring in the rebuke, and then they bring it back to the gospel again.

20:27

We talk about that many, many times. Ephesians is a good example of this.

20:35

I would even say just the first chapter of Peter, which I have used so many times over and over again.

20:44

I find it humorous when people are like, we just need to go back to the golden age, the first century church.

20:54

That was when they really did it right. We need to go back to that. Have you read the letters in the

21:01

Bible? Church at Corinth, if things that were going on at the church in Corinth were going on in your own local church, you'd be ready to jump off the rooftops.

21:12

You would be very convinced that the Lord isn't in it. Paul doesn't say those things.

21:22

He writes to these people, affirming them in Christ, encouraging them in Christ, telling them that they have the

21:31

Spirit of God and that their salvation lies not in human wisdom but in God's very own power.

21:37

He says all this. Then he does, for a number of chapters, indict them on several very serious things.

21:45

Division, suing one another, and sexual immorality.

21:52

In 1 Corinthians 5, there's an instance of sexual immorality that even pagans know is gross and wrong.

21:59

You are arrogant. You think apparently this is an expression of Christian freedom. You should actually put this man out of the church.

22:08

He writes all of that stuff, but he does all of it having grounded them in Christ and affirmed them in Christ.

22:17

Justin Perdue talks about this in the

22:23

Lord's Prayer. There's almost a lifestyle of grace.

22:29

I'll say it this way. He says you must forgive because you've been forgiven.

22:35

And what you have been forgiven of is far greater than whatever you're going to offer in forgiveness.

22:41

That's living a life of grace because that's to receive favor that you did not deserve. What I mean by favor, it's not that he says you're forgiven, don't mess up again.

22:52

He says you're forgiven and you will continually be forgiven. It's ongoing forgiveness. Justin Perdue Really quickly back to 1

22:58

Corinthians, I'm just struck by the fact that obviously I know there's 1 Corinthians 16, which contains important and very practical subject matter.

23:06

But there's 1 Corinthians 15 at the end of that letter. That entire chapter is about the certainty of bodily resurrection on account of the

23:15

Lord Jesus Christ, and how this is what we hope for, and this is what we're waiting for, and how the corrupt will put on the incorruptible, and the perishable will put on the imperishable, and all of these things, and that your labor, brothers, in the

23:26

Lord Jesus Christ is not in vain, and that death is going to be swallowed up in victory. This is how he lands the plane by encouraging those dear saints who are struggling mightily with all kinds of things, whom he has rebuked.

23:39

He then preaches the hope of Christ and the certainty of the resurrection, and that's what we mean to do.

23:47

Absolutely, we want to rightly divide the law and the gospel. We preach the law, not only in its first use to crush us all in our sin and drive us to Christ.

23:57

We joyfully uphold the third use of the law, as it's been historically defined, that guides our living in Christ.

24:06

How do we know what righteousness looks like? Well, what does the law say? How do we know what's going to wreck and ruin our lives and dishonor

24:13

God and destroy anyone who's close to us? What does the law forbid? What does it prohibit?

24:20

We talk like that. We're not trying to just play fast and loose with grace and not consider the law, but we are convinced that not only for our salvation, the law can only kill and can't give life, but the law, when it comes to sanctification, can only guide.

24:40

It cannot change. It is Christ for pardon, and it is Christ for power. It is the preaching of Jesus that empowers sanctification.

24:49

The law is the road signs. They only guide us. What brings us along in life is the vehicle of Christ.

25:00

I do love it when Paul says, for the love of Christ constrains me.

25:12

Let's just stop for a moment and don't lose the emphasis of that. When we think about love, he says, the greatest example of love is that I lay my life down for you.

25:22

The grace and mercy of Christ laid down at the cross is what constrains

25:27

Paul. Don't miss that. We just say, oh, the love of Christ. No, he's saying the very fact of this amazing relationship

25:35

I have with this man is what I look at to say, I don't want to sin.

25:42

I constrain myself down because of that. Right? Peter says it this way.

25:48

You're acting this way because you've been forgotten. You've been cleansed. Looking unto Jesus, the author and fitter, lay aside the weight and the sin, because you're looking to Jesus.

26:00

We could keep going, but the idea of it is, if you really believe the apostles when they're writing, grace is literally what empowers you from sin, not to sin.

26:10

I cannot allow that to be the statement going forward. I think it continues to entangle people because they're like, you kind of need a hybrid of law and grace.

26:19

If you guys don't put that law back in there, then people are going to wander off. I'm like, you don't understand what the law is for. It is helpful, but it does not empower obedience.

26:27

It cannot empower obedience. This happened recently in our church. I can say this because I wasn't the one who preached this sermon.

26:36

One of our other pastors preached on Matthew 5 verses 1 to 12, and he did a wonderful job on the

26:43

Beatitudes. That's a very familiar passage. He was very clear in his introduction on some high -level categories regarding the

26:51

Sermon on the Mount and the law and the gospel. Instead of preaching the Beatitudes as commands or as a set of moral platitudes that we need to seek to conform ourselves to, he preached

27:04

Jesus as the one who is all of this for us. Then he preached our union with Christ and how we are being conformed unto these things in him by the

27:14

Spirit. He did a wonderful job with all of this. We were all encouraged to know him.

27:21

As we were talking with one another, because I know at GRC, at CBC, people just hang and talk after church.

27:28

As we're talking with one another, we're all looking at each other saying, man, my heart is full.

27:34

I'm fed. I've been encouraged in the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm so thankful for him and my union with him.

27:40

Then we look at each other and we're like, I am motivated to go out and strive to live a righteous life.

27:52

Having said everything you just said about how your heart is full and you're so encouraged in Christ. We've been talking about the word and the means of grace.

27:59

Do you want to leave and just go out and sin? We just kind of chuckle to one another.

28:05

We're like, no, that's the last thing I want to do. I'll speak personally here. Last Sunday, I had the joy of hearing one of our men in our church preach his first sermon.

28:19

My heart was wrestling with some things that had happened, a disagreement with my wife.

28:25

I was trying to decide how to handle this. We're not agreeing on how to go forward on this thing.

28:33

It was interesting how, at times, you can just let your sin linger because you feel self -righteousness in it.

28:41

As he is preaching Psalm 46, it was 46, right, Andrew? Psalm 46, be still and know that I am

28:49

God. It's so good. In this sermon, he goes through it. He goes, sometimes we just bust that on people. If someone would have come up to me and they knew

28:56

I was struggling, it's like, John, you just need to be still and know that he is God. I'd be like, you need to be still in that corner and leave me alone.

29:03

I don't need that right now. He went through and preached that passage as it should have been, proving to me why

29:09

I can lay my sin upon Christ. Let it go, the one who will guide and direct and care for me.

29:18

He's proving to me why he is trustworthy, not only with my life, but also with my sin.

29:23

Leave it over to him. I'll just say this. By the time he was done preaching, I was crying. I was like, Lord, thank you for causing my repentance, for breaking my heart.

29:33

At the end, I was like, Lord, I can now rest and be still because you have forgiven me, you have cleansed me, and you love me.

29:41

Justin Perdue I agree with you on how your heart is softened. Your heart is softened by the preaching of Christ, and you're moved to forgive.

29:51

You're moved to be more gentle and merciful and compassionate. You mentioned this earlier.

29:56

I want to acknowledge this reality for those out there that might be thinking this. We've just been talking about gospel preaching and how we then leave motivated to pursue a righteous life.

30:06

You could sit under what we would call legal preaching, where you have been scolded to holiness and there's a threatening edginess to it.

30:20

You could leave church that day and think, man, I need to go and be holy.

30:26

Don't misunderstand me. You could leave and think, I need to go and obey. Man, I better be holy, and I need to get to work.

30:35

I promise you that there is not a sincere Muslim in this world that does not think that about Allah.

30:44

I better go do right because it's out of fear.

30:50

It's out of dread. Justin Perdue I was going to say Roman Catholics. Justin Perdue Sure, man. There are plenty of people all over this planet who do not know the

30:57

Lord Jesus Christ, who have some notion of a higher power, or who have a

31:02

God, and they think in these fear -based ways where they are like, I need to go be holy, and I better be good enough.

31:10

That is not the Christian message. The motivation for the believer's holiness and righteousness in the pursuit of obedience is not fear and dread because God is your judge.

31:22

It is love and joy and gratitude. My heart has been softened.

31:28

My heart has been gripped by what Christ has done for me and by the goodness of my heavenly

31:33

Father. He's not my judge anymore. I call him Father. That's what propels us.

31:40

Sure, we are grieved when we're confronted by the law and we see how far short we fall.

31:48

We're shown, man, I need to grow in that area, and I have failed here. Lord, forgive me.

31:54

Have mercy on me, a sinner, and give me grace that I might pursue this.

32:00

That's how we live. Justin Perdue You're almost giving commentary on Paul in Galatians when he says, how did you begin?

32:08

He began by grace. I entered into this relationship by grace with Christ, and now you're thinking it's going to be continued by the law.

32:17

Justin Perdue He said, by the flesh. Justin Perdue He's like, no, you're going to continue this relationship by grace. When you say you guys are emphasizing grace, that's the exact argument that came against Paul.

32:26

Paul is like, no, I'm not emphasizing grace. Justin Perdue Grace has brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home.

32:32

That's basically a reiteration of Galatians. Justin Perdue Amen. Notice how often in Paul's categories the

32:39

Spirit, grace, and faith are juxtaposed with the flesh, the law, and works.

32:47

Justin Perdue It's so good. Well, we could definitely say a lot more, and we will because we have time on our podcast to do so.

32:58

We're just so thankful that you guys take the time to listen to what we're saying. It's so funny, I'm realizing my microphone keeps falling down.

33:04

I'm moving down with it. I'm like, why am I crouching down here? Thank you for listening.

33:11

Justin and I do a second podcast every week. It's a shorter one. It's called It's for those who partner with us and donate to our ministry.

33:18

Along with this podcast is an app where there's almost 750 of us in there.

33:24

We're encouraging, putting quotes in there, asking questions. It's a lot of fun. We have a new ministry called

33:30

TheocastU, where there are classes that Justin and I have taught, and we're adding to that daily. I'm sorry, not daily.

33:36

I'm sorry, monthly. If you would be interested in that, you can go to our website.

33:41

Thank you so much for listening. For those of you that are in SR members, we'll see you over in SR.