Is the Covenant of Works in the Bible? (w/ Pat Abendroth) | Theocast

Theocast

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:03

Hi, this is John, and today on Theocast, Justin and I interview a special guest on the covenant of works and why it is so important.

00:12

We argue from the Bible that the covenant of works can be found in the text, and it's vitally important to our understanding of the gospel, specifically

00:21

Christ's righteousness for us. It's a fun conversation, it's a lively one, and this is part one of a two -part episode that we do with Pat Avendroth.

00:31

Stay tuned. A simple and easy way for you to help support Theocast each month is by shopping at Amazon through the

00:37

Amazon Smile program. When you make a purchase through Amazon Smile, a portion of the proceeds will be donated to our ministry.

00:43

To learn how to sign up, just go to theocast .org Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ, conversations about Christian life from a

01:05

Reformed and pastoral perspective. If you're curious about what this podcast is about, we're trying to clarify the gospel and reclaim the purpose of the kingdom, and your hosts today are

01:15

Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina, and John Mossett, pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Springhill, Tennessee.

01:24

Today is a two -parter with a dear friend of ours, and probably most of you are aware of The Pactum.

01:31

I always laugh at how you say that. I'm actually a listener, and I promote listening to The Pactum.

01:41

Justin Perdue I'm thankful you guys are both card -carrying members of The Pactum. I just want to know when

01:47

I'm going to get my hat. That's good. I don't always listen to podcasts, but when I do, it often is

01:54

The Pactum. I have a secret Theocast tattoo. Nobody can know about it, though. Hopefully, it's not the old logo.

02:00

We haven't even said this gentleman's name yet. Yes, with us today is none other than, for those of you that know

02:06

The Pactum, you did not hear Mike's voice. You heard Pat Abendroth's voice. That's right. And so it's good to have

02:12

Pat with us. Pat is the pastor of Omaha Bible Church. He's been there since 1998 and has five children.

02:19

He's been married, as we just learned right now, 32 years. Is that correct? This is true.

02:25

It's a great blessing in my life. 32 years. Yeah. And I've known of Pat for…

02:31

Mrs. Pactum. Mrs. Pactum. Mr. Pat Pactum. See, I've known of the

02:37

Abendroth's for probably 15 years, and then Pat and I met, I think you did a men's retreat.

02:43

It was the first time I met you about 10 years ago. Okay. That's probably true. In Nashville. You came out and you were talking about what is the gospel.

02:53

I remember specifically. Yeah, I do. I remember you were talking about the law, the Ten Commandments is not the gospel.

02:59

It was really good. Yeah. How about that? You know what? I don't want to claim a lot of old things I've said before.

03:05

That sounds like a good one. I can't say journey on The Pactum, but I can say it on Theocast, so I've already started my journey.

03:11

Journey. And well, I'll go ahead and announce this now.

03:18

It's fun. Justin and I are going to be traveling to San Diego, and we're going to have the opportunity to do a podcast with Mike and Pat from NoCo Radio.

03:30

And so we're going to have a big, I know Mike's been trying to come up with names about how to combine all three podcasts, and none of them have sounded good.

03:36

So. You're exactly right. Yep. Yeah. Anyways, if you haven't checked out

03:43

The Pactum, please do so. Was it your dissertation, or did you actually have a book on covenant theology?

03:54

No, it's the dissertation, and it's still free on the Omaha Bible Church website, but it will be in book form anytime now.

04:00

So make sure you get it free, otherwise you're gonna have to buy it on Amazon. Good.

04:06

I've read it. It's great. What will be the title, Pat? I think it's just gonna be called Covenant Theology. Okay. Yep.

04:13

Just gonna be super simple and basic. I just saw the artwork for the cover, and it's looking good. So excited about that.

04:18

Wait a minute. You mean we're gonna have a Baptist version of covenant theology available here soon? I'm excited.

04:24

Come on, son. Some people say I'm a closet Presbyterian, but anyway. Oh, we get that all the time.

04:30

Right? Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. I basically wrote it to try to show that you can believe in covenant theology and have whatever millennial view you'd like, and you can whatever rapture view you'd like, because it's not really about that.

04:43

It's about soteriology first and foremost. That's right. Anyway, amen. Now, amen. Along those lines, covenant theology being about soteriology, how about that?

04:53

We're gonna talk today, since we have a man literally who has written a book on the topic, we're gonna talk some covenant theology today.

04:59

And you did your doctorate work on covenant of works, right? Right. Yep. Right. Covenant theology, covenant of words, covenant of grace, covenant of redemption.

05:06

Excellent. Yeah. So while we're here, 30 ,000 foot view, the three major covenants revealed in the scripture, the covenant of redemption, the pactum salutis, right?

05:15

Made in eternity past between most pointedly the father and the son concerning the redemption of a people that would be redeemed through the work of the son.

05:22

And the son would inherit them. And those people would live with him in a redeemed earth and new heavens and a new earth forever.

05:29

Then we have the covenant of works that God made with Adam in the garden of Eden. And we're gonna talk more pointedly about that one today.

05:35

And then the covenant of grace, uh, promised in Genesis 3 15 and revealed progressively throughout the rest of scripture established in the coming of Christ in the new covenant.

05:45

So yeah, we're talking covenant theology today with a man who has written a volume on the topic. We're going to talk today most pointedly about the covenant of works that God made with Adam.

05:54

And this first of two episodes is going to be effectively answering the question, is the covenant of works in the

06:00

Bible? Is this a legitimate category? Because this is an objection raised by many people. At least it has been in my experience.

06:06

When we start to talk in these terms about a covenant of works or a covenant period made with Adam in which he represented the entire human race, in which

06:16

God gave him not only his moral law, but then positive commands in addition that needed to be obeyed for eternal life, that the possibility of eternal life stood before Adam to be earned for himself and his posterity.

06:31

And obviously he faced the sanctions of this covenant. Should he break it? That whole idea of a covenant being made with Adam is objected to by many because the word covenant doesn't occur in the first couple of chapters of the scripture.

06:46

In Genesis 2 in particular, that language of covenant does not show up. And so people will rightly say, are we inserting categories into the scriptures that aren't there?

06:55

And are we trying to force the Bible into our nice systematic theological categories? So I think it's a good thing for us to start here.

07:02

And then in the second of two episodes, we hope to be able to answer some questions or think together about implications of the covenant of works.

07:11

If this is a covenant made with Adam in the garden, how does this matter for us now living in the 21st century under the new covenant?

07:18

And what significance is there to denying or affirming a covenant of works, even as we think about the work of Christ for us?

07:25

So that's episode two. But you need to listen to episode one to understand episode two. At least I hope that's playing. So we're off and running here.

07:32

Pat, I'm going to throw it to you, man. Our resident expert on covenant theology. So how would you begin to answer that question?

07:38

Is the covenant of works in the Bible? Maybe what is the covenant of works and is it in the

07:43

Bible? Those are two big ones. Justin, you've done such a good job articulating covenant theology. I was ready for like the altar call and I was ready.

07:50

We're all for that. I'm not sure why I'm on the episode. Feeling all warm inside.

07:56

We'll play 42 stanzas. The buses await. That's right. And come to the altar where you're sacrificing what?

08:02

I don't know. Given that that's an old covenant category, but there we go. Every eye closed, every head bound.

08:08

Yeah, right. Oh man. Pat, come forward, put your stick in the fire, man. And tell us about covenant theology. You know, when you were speaking,

08:16

Justin, I was thinking that's right. The common objection is, oh yes, it's in the white spaces. It's not really there.

08:21

And it sounds like maybe a slam dunk argument at first, but then you pose questions to people who say such things and you say, well, the word sin isn't used in the early chapters of Genesis either.

08:33

Obviously sin is there. Then all of a sudden you can almost see the wheels turning in their minds because they're like, oh, that's right.

08:42

And the word Trinity isn't there, but God is there. Second Samuel chapter seven, Davidic covenant, doesn't say covenant, but that's the text we always go to because there's a covenant there.

08:53

Everyone accepts that covenant too. Right. Kind of a word study fallacy maybe is what we would call that.

08:59

Word concept fallacy, word study fallacy. That's right. That's right. And that means briefly for people that the idea there is that if a word is not present, then the concept is not present.

09:12

And we would say, well, no, that's not exactly true. The word covenant may not be there, but the concept definitely is there when we take the scripture on its own terms.

09:20

Right. And if we start by saying, okay, what is a covenant? And a covenant is a formal agreement.

09:27

And by agreement, we don't mean it has to be between equal parties. God is obviously the creator of the authority, but it's a binding relationship.

09:36

It's not a casual relationship between Adam and God. It's a formal relationship, sort of like a marriage is a covenant.

09:43

Bible calls marriage a covenant. I don't have a casual relationship with my wife. Oh, it might be romantic, but it's also legally binding.

09:53

So anyway, so it's this formal agreement between Adam and God, whereby Adam was to do certain things.

10:00

He wasn't free to do whatever he wanted to do. And even that's built in the fact that he's a created being. He's obligated to do certain things, and those certain things are whatever

10:09

God says. So I would say even by the fact that it's a creator -creature relationship, it's formal and binding.

10:18

He's not a free agent to do whatever he wants to do. So it's already looking like a covenant, even though we haven't even gotten into the text yet.

10:26

Well, in Genesis chapter 2, if I may insert here, talking about the text a little bit, and this is before verse 17, like just leading up to Genesis 2 .17.

10:36

So like you said, God made man in his own image. And then in Genesis 2 .7 and 8, it's very interesting, the language.

10:43

We're talking to serious -minded evangelicals here. People who care about the words on the page. So let's talk about those for a minute.

10:50

In Genesis 2 .7 and 8, we read this, Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

10:59

And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed.

11:06

So in other words, Adam is formed, then Eden was prepared, and then Adam was put there.

11:11

Like that in and of itself is significant, because it's an intentional thing that God is doing with him.

11:17

I know I sort of grew up thinking that Adam was made in Eden. And in reality,

11:23

Adam is formed, and then the Lord plants a garden and puts Adam there for a particular purpose.

11:30

That's a big deal. Justin Perdue That's a big deal. It's also a big deal even to think in terms of the

11:36

Pentateuch. This is kind of fun to talk about covenant theology in the Bible, and we haven't even really gotten to the verses yet.

11:44

Taking a little bit different tact, if you think about who wrote the Pentateuch, and as Bible -believing conservative evangelicals, we form

11:52

Christians, we would say, well, that was Moses. It wasn't Adam. And it all came together.

11:58

It all comes as one volume, if you will, or multiple books in the library, if you will.

12:05

And no Israelite would have read Genesis without thinking in light of the whole Pentateuch. And so if you read the whole, you're like, oh, this is a covenantal document.

12:14

This is the covenantal God. There's no question about that. So it's a mistake to read Genesis 1 -3 in isolation from the first five books.

12:24

They're meant to go together. And so we're already thinking in covenantal kinds of terms before we get to the text.

12:31

Jon Moffitt Well, just to interject there, I think I forget what book I read this in, but it's been a helpful perspective for years now that we read

12:39

Genesis from the prologue to Exodus, really. The children of Israel were brought out of Egypt before Genesis was actually written.

12:50

And so God makes a covenant with them. And then Moses goes, by the way, you probably need to know how this all got started.

12:57

So he backs up and he says, let's start from the beginning. And so they are already aware of covenantal language and covenant theology because they entered into a covenant with God after Egypt.

13:09

And so that's a great perspective. And I think that's a great observation. Like when we talk about authorial intent,

13:14

I think it's safe to say Moses, the author who received the covenant in Exodus, authorial intent would mean he's writing from that perspective when he starts in Genesis.

13:27

Jon Moffitt Right, right. And then it's the Lord, the Lord, the Lord, the Lord. Well, that's covenantal in and of itself.

13:33

Yeah. And then just one other brief observation leading to Genesis 217. Immediately after reading about how

13:39

God, he makes man, then he plants a garden. He puts Adam in the garden. Immediately we read about these two trees that are there.

13:47

The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, as well as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And we're going to talk about that,

13:53

I'm sure, at some point, how that's not insignificant. Because one of the objections raised against this covenant of works as well, not so much on the sanction penalty side that in the day you eat of this, you'll surely die.

14:05

But there is an objection against the idea that eternal life is held out to Adam if he obeys.

14:12

And that tree of life piece is going to be significant there. But I may be getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. Pat, continue on, man.

14:19

When I'm speaking with someone who is more of what I would call a biblicist, they want to actually see the word in the text.

14:25

I think the low -lying fruit for us is Hosea 6 -7. It's pretty straightforward.

14:31

In Hosea 6 -7, it says, but like Adam, they transgressed the covenant. There they dealt faithlessly with me.

14:39

So that's a great one to go to. And I think sometimes we shy away from it because we know that sometimes people say, well, that's not

14:47

Adam. It's not the Adam of the garden. It's a place and all this sort of thing.

14:52

I think that's kind of a lame move because that's borrowing from the theological liberals. Because the people who don't like a historical

14:59

Adam say that kind of stuff. That's right. That's true. Those of us who believe the

15:04

Bible is true in a historical Adam, I think we should reclaim the legitimacy of Hosea 6 -7.

15:10

Adam, yes, he transgressed the covenant. And I guess we could end the episode because there it is.

15:19

Let's pivot slightly and talk about Adam and how he functioned with respect to the entire human race in the garden.

15:27

In other words, did he represent us all? And if so, what does that mean for us? What does that mean regarding this covenant?

15:33

Yes, indeed, he did represent us all. And we know this not just from theologizing. We know it in light of Romans chapter 5.

15:41

Romans 5 -18 and 19 are crucial to this whole matter. And if you don't mind,

15:47

I'll go ahead and read that so people can hear it. It says in Romans 5 -18, Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

16:00

For as by one man's disobedience, this is really what we want to focus on right now, at least, one man's disobedience, the many, so he's representing the many were made sinners.

16:10

So by one man's obedience, the many will be made righteous. So all that legal terminology before God and the court of God, if you will,

16:20

Adam represented the entire human race. And he, it says, disobeyed. So through his one act of disobedience, it led to condemnation, opposite of justification.

16:31

And so indeed, what Adam did affected himself, but also it also affected the entire human race.

16:37

And so he, as you said, I think earlier, Justin, him and his posterity to use the old

16:44

English. So that's why we're in the mess that we're in. That's why we're under condemnation.

16:49

It's why we need justification by faith in the last Adam, 1 Corinthians 15. So what he did affected himself and it affected everyone else.

16:59

So that's why it was called a covenant of works as well. He was obligated. He had to do the right thing.

17:05

He didn't do the right thing. He didn't lead the human race into justification. He led us into condemnation.

17:10

It's the bad news. He's our federal head. Sometimes covenant theology is called federal theology because of the

17:16

Latin word just means covenant, which makes me smile when I hear people say, I don't believe in covenant theology.

17:23

I believe in federal headship because it's like saying, I don't like oranges, but I like oranges.

17:30

Exactly. I don't like oranges, but I like tangerines. So that's good, man.

17:36

And maybe sometimes when you're trying to not, you know, freak people out who are nervous about covenant theology, you say, well, yes,

17:42

I'm promoting federal headship. Oh, okay. That's good. Okay. Exactly. Well, we're just saying covenant headship is what we're talking about.

17:50

So if you're new to Theocast, we have a free ebook available for you called

17:56

Faith Versus Faithfulness, A Primer on Rest. And if you've struggled with legalism, a lack of assurance, or simply want to know what it means to live by faith alone, we wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a reformed confessional perspective.

18:10

You can get your free copy at theocast .org slash primer. The Romans five piece, like you said, the value of that cannot be overstated because what

18:23

Paul is establishing there in Romans five, 12 to 21, most pointedly, is the legitimacy of representation.

18:31

I mean, really? I mean, that we were represented by Adam in the garden is very clear.

18:38

I mean, and thereby to be represented by Christ is legitimate. And so that relationship of one to the many is stated over and over again in Romans five.

18:49

And that's what we're contending for is that being in Adam, this is true for us.

18:54

And then being united to Christ, being in Christ, this becomes true for us. And then when we start now, all of a sudden, when we're off and running, and we're looking at other texts, and we hear from Jesus, and we hear from the

19:05

Apostle Paul elsewhere, they keep going back to this. This is a reality that is significant and important.

19:13

In one sense, it's the most important reality because we need someone to obey for us.

19:19

And that would be none other than Jesus. That's why we have justification. And so we're already getting into why this is so important.

19:27

And so when we hear, go ahead. No, I was going to say that if you feel lost or like you're not sure about the legitimacy of this conversation, here it is right here.

19:37

So pay close attention because he's coming to the application of the gospel. So go for it. Right.

19:43

Well, and when it comes to even significance, and I know we're not really getting into that right now, but even the practical importance of all of this, maybe later in the episode or the next episode, we can talk about Romans 5, 1 to 11.

19:56

There's the practical importance of all of this. But right now we're just focusing on the doctrine. When we hear from Jesus and Jesus saying things like, do this and you will live in Luke chapter 10, verse 28, that's covenant of works talk.

20:12

That's right. Jesus is asked, what should we do to gain eternal life? And as the discussion goes in Luke chapter 10, it's love

20:19

God with heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. And Jesus affirms that answer.

20:24

He says, you've answered correctly. Do this and you will live. And make sure, you know, dear listeners, that you don't think you will live means you'll have a happy life.

20:35

The question was about what should we do to gain eternal life? Eternal life. Entrance into the kingdom. Jesus basically says, do the covenant of works, which they can't do because they're in Adam.

20:46

But in effect, the principle is still there. So Jesus also affirmed the covenant of works.

20:51

He didn't use that language, just as Paul didn't use that exact label. But it's for sure in Luke chapter 10, verse 28, when he says, do this and you will live.

21:02

That's covenant of works talk without question. That's right. Yeah. And I would just add to that, your point of do this and live.

21:09

What I love about Romans is he says, for all have sin and fall short of the glory of God. We don't stop and ask ourselves, why does

21:17

Paul use that language, glory of God? It's important because if we fell short of God's glory, it's not we just missed the mark.

21:25

The point of it is, if we would have done something, not sin, then we would have gained the glory of God.

21:31

And what I think he means by that is that being in the presence of God in his glory without sin perpetually forever.

21:38

So if Adam would have obeyed, he would have entered into the glory of God. This is Hebrews 2 .10,

21:44

right? Bringing many sons to glory, right? So if you want to reject the concept of a covenant of works and you want to come up with another title, that's fine.

21:52

But you can't reject the theology because it's there. Yes, absolutely. And I have some sympathy with people because when they hear covenant of works and they're not used to theological language, they think, oh, it can't be works because Ephesians 2 says it's by grace through faith, not by works.

22:10

And I understand the knee -jerk reaction. But in reality, somebody has to do the work.

22:16

Somebody has to do the obeying for us to be saved. And we would say Jesus does the obeying for us to be saved.

22:23

But it's not like salvation is by nothing. It's actually by his obedience, his atoning sacrifice.

22:30

So I am sympathetic because when people first hear it, they're like, wait a second, that can't be true. And then you have to remind people,

22:39

Jesus didn't just show up and sit there. Jesus obeyed and Jesus fulfilled all righteousness.

22:45

And Jesus died on the cross and Jesus was raised from the dead and Jesus ascended. And those are things to be done.

22:51

He did the things, he did the works. And then you can see people kind of put their shoulders down and go, okay,

22:57

I get it. I understand. And what you're talking about there is effectively the covenant of grace where God the

23:03

Son took on flesh, fulfilled all the requirements of the law, fulfilled its punishment, and conquered death and conquered the one who has the power of death, ascended to the right hand of God the

23:14

Father, and he's coming back. All of that, he did this. And then in the covenant of grace, what he did is given to sin -sick wretches like us, and we receive it by faith.

23:25

Justin Perdue Absolutely, yes. Justin Perdue People feel the obligation of the covenant of grace, and it comes to us freely. And we use the label covenant of grace because it makes a lot of sense because it comes to us freely.

23:35

Justin Perdue Exactly. So the covenant of works is called the covenant of works because this covenant, enjoying the covenant blessing, was contingent upon Adam's obedience.

23:44

Justin Perdue Yes. Justin Perdue So it was contingent upon his works as to whether he would enjoy the blessing or not. Justin Perdue Absolutely.

23:49

Justin Perdue A few other things we could talk through as we're just trying to flesh out the covenant of works and its legitimacy for people.

23:56

Pat, we'd love to hear you speak on this and we can interact over this. What exactly did God obligate

24:01

Adam to obey in the garden, if that's a fair question? Justin Perdue Well, if we really want to make it simple, and maybe this isn't where you're going yet, but to be super simple,

24:13

Adam needed to treat God like God is God. So Adam needed to act like someone made in God's image who's a creature.

24:22

And so by obligation, even if it's not stated, he needed to love God with heart, soul, mind, and strength because there's only one

24:28

God. And so that's what he was obligated to do. And he was obligated to love other image bearers, his wife in that particular case, as himself.

24:39

So though it's not stated, that's what God's law requires. Justin Perdue So you just said it.

24:44

A piece of the covenant of works is the moral law of God. Justin Perdue Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself, which summarizes the

24:52

Ten Commandments. So that's a piece of what Adam was to obey. In addition, we know that God did give

24:59

Adam some other, what we might call positive laws. And by positive laws, we just mean things that are not inherently moral or immoral, but the word of God makes them so.

25:08

So when he says, most pointedly, the sanction that he puts forward, you are not to eat of this tree.

25:16

Well, eating fruit from a tree is not inherently wicked, but when God's word is attached to it, it becomes sin.

25:23

It becomes immoral because you have now transgressed the word of God. And so the moral law of God combined with those positive laws, those additional commands would constitute the terms of the covenant of works, what

25:34

Adam was obligated to obey. Justin Perdue Excellent. Yeah, excellent. Yeah, yeah. Justin Perdue And maybe before we move past this, we could look at some other passages.

25:44

I'm still burdened for people to make sure that they see it in the Bible for themselves.

25:50

Justin Perdue Yes. Justin Perdue That we're setting out to do. So I would remind people to even stick to Romans, not just Romans 5, but Romans 10 and Romans 2.

25:59

It's the same thing again and again. And for us to see the legitimacy of Jesus and his work, we have to understand this covenant of works idea.

26:07

Romans 10 5 says, the person who does the commandments shall live by them. It's the do this and live thing.

26:15

And maybe at first, when you read Romans 10 5, you might think, I don't know if that's talking about covenant of works.

26:20

Then you look a little closer, and even in the margin of your Bible, it'll say, oh, this is

26:26

Leviticus 18 5. Oh, do this and live Leviticus 18 5. Well, we know what that means because we have an inspired interpretation of it, because Jesus in Luke 10 28, we just looked at it, is quoting

26:39

Leviticus 18 5, and he says it's about eternal life. So I don't let the commentaries confuse me, is what

26:46

I'm saying. I know what Romans 10 5 is about. Because it's

26:51

Leviticus 18 5. And I know what that's about because Jesus has a commentary on Leviticus 18 5.

26:58

It's in Luke 10 28. And I'm not trying to play, you know, a weird card game and trick people here. But allowing scripture to interpret scripture, and I think

27:07

Jesus knows what he's talking about. We're talking about do this and live, as in you gain eternal life.

27:14

And when you read Romans 10 in that light, it all makes sense. And you're like, oh, the

27:20

Jews, they didn't obey. They didn't see God's law for the daunting law that it is.

27:27

So they made up their own laws that they could keep. And so they never saw their need for Jesus' righteousness provided.

27:35

And so if you do allow God's law to be the daunting law that it is, that says do this and live, as in perfectly, personally, and perpetually, you're going to say,

27:44

I can't do it. I'm undone. Woe is me. I'm damned. And that's exactly where we want people to be.

27:51

So they say, I need righteousness. I don't have it. I look outside of myself. It's provided for me.

27:57

That's what Romans 10 is about. And it's the aha moment. You're like, this is amazing. Yeah. Well, to my dispensational friends who reject this concept,

28:06

I said, you do believe in the title that is given to Christ as the second Adam.

28:11

And they would say, well, yes, because that's biblical. He's described as the second Adam. You then have to ask theologically, why does

28:18

Paul use that title of Jesus? He can't just be saying he's the second perfect man.

28:24

There has to be a purpose for it. And then when Paul says in Philippians 3 .9, not having a righteousness of my own.

28:31

I mean, this is what we're talking about. Christ's righteousness that he earned where the first Adam failed, the second

28:38

Adam succeeds. And that's the righteousness that is not of my own. And so for me,

28:44

I think that argument of Adam, that was the thing that kind of like tipped me over the top going, well, he has to be the second

28:49

Adam for a reason. Right. And I know even lots of Christians, I say, can you tell me what righteous is?

28:57

What's what's righteousness? They don't know. And I'm not here to scold them. I'm here to help them.

29:03

That's why I'm a pastor. But even pastors, you say, could you tell me what righteousness means? Well, they say holy something.

29:10

Yeah, but that's all very ambiguous and vague.

29:16

You know, look it up in a dictionary. You know, I think I've looked it up in at least 10 dictionaries. It means adherence to the law.

29:23

Yeah. And so, oh, Christ fulfilled the law for us. He adhered to the law and it's credited to us by faith.

29:32

So even basic things like this covenant of works, it's a covenant of obedience to God's law and it's broken.

29:40

So we need someone else, the last Adam, like you said, John, to obey the law so we can have righteousness.

29:46

But maybe we're so confused about these kinds of things because we think the law is only in the Old Testament or we're just talking about Mosaic law and it simply isn't true.

29:56

So I love the opportunity we have to teach people basic things like this. Yeah. Because then the light bulb goes off and you can't unsee it.

30:04

It's a great thing. So, Mike, could you connect? I'm so used to talking to your brother.

30:10

I've been called Mike my whole life by my parents, by my siblings, by my friends, by my enemies.

30:16

My brother's name is Mark. It happens to me all the time. My mom, I'm like, Mom, you're talking to your oldest son right now.

30:22

Go ahead, Mark. There's a very important connection because you said righteousness is adherence to the law.

30:31

So can you combine for the listener real quick, righteousness for Adam would have been adherence to the command not to eat the tree, right?

30:40

Fulfillment of the moral law. So Jesus can't fulfill that, right? Because that's no longer.

30:46

So explain how the Mosaic law kind of is really set up to be the earning.

30:52

Are you seeing the connection I'm making? So I think Jesus fulfilled everything that needed to be fulfilled.

30:59

So he was born under the law, but he's born under the Mosaic law even. So he did so in a generic sense, because if you're not a

31:08

Jew, you're not under that obligation. But also he was born under that system, made it all the more difficult, if you will, also because of all of the types and shadows so that he would be the priest and he would be the king and all of those things as well.

31:22

But I'm not sure exactly where else you want to go with it. No, and you're answering my question. The point of it is, is that Adam failed to earn righteousness.

31:31

And then God promises to Eve one is coming to succeed where you failed. And the question then becomes, it can't be not eating the tree.

31:38

What is that then? And then the Mosaic law becomes the thing that we can observe to go, oh,

31:44

Jesus earned righteousness for us by this. Justin Perdue Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.

31:50

Justin Perdue J .P., I know you had something before we closed down. J .P. Morgan A couple of things. Yeah, I mean, even understanding how Matthew and Luke began their accounts of Jesus and his earthly ministry are significant here.

32:01

And you talk about once you see these things, you can't unsee them in the two places out of the two, for example. I mean,

32:06

Matthew 3 .15, when Jesus is being baptized by John the Baptist, and John is objecting to, like,

32:12

I don't know if I should be the one baptizing you and stuff. And Jesus says, no, it's appropriate that we would do this. For what reason?

32:18

So that all righteousness might be fulfilled. That's significant. Then in Matthew 4 and Luke 4, we have the temptation of Christ in the wilderness, and Satan is the tempter.

32:27

And I can't tell you how many times I heard that passage taught. And the way it was taught was we, like Jesus, can defeat the evil one using the word of God.

32:39

And we, I think all three, would say, okay, secondary application, fine. But the point of that text is that the new and better Adam is here, and that where the old one failed.

32:51

He was tempted in a paradise with everything going for him and failed. The second Adam shows up, and he's tempted in a wilderness with everything stacked against him, and he succeeds.

33:01

And it helps us to understand why that's even in the Bible in the first place. And this is before he even begins his earthly ministry.

33:07

Amen, dude. It's wonderful. Gets you geeked up, you know? Justin Perdue Absolutely. It's a sermon spoiler, though.

33:14

When you tell them it's not all about you and overcoming temptation. Justin Perdue That's gonna write a book on that one. Justin Perdue Maybe in the members -only portions, we could talk a little bit about some of that stuff.

33:23

Last thing really quickly, guys, if we can, I just want to touch on this because I would feel irresponsible if we don't.

33:31

The promise of eternal life that's held out to Adam, should he obey? We've already talked about Romans 5, which

33:37

I think is pivotal because we see the implication there is that had Adam succeeded, he could have earned this justification for us.

33:46

He failed, we were condemned, so now we needed Christ to obey so that we might be justified.

33:52

I think that parallel is significant. But really briefly on the tree of life, at least from my perspective, and I'd love to hear what you guys think about this.

34:01

The tree of life is there in the garden, and we're told about it immediately upon Adam being placed in the garden. The tree of life shows up in another book of the

34:11

Bible, and it shows up in Revelation chapter 2 and Revelation 22. In Revelation 2 -7, this is

34:18

Jesus' words to the churches. He says, He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, to the one who conquers.

34:25

By that, I think we would understand, to the one who perseveres in trusting Christ, to the one who conquers.

34:31

I will grant to eat of the tree of life. So that's significant, which is in the paradise of God, he says.

34:39

Then in Revelation 22, we get the language of the throne of God and how there's this river that flows from the throne through the middle of the street of the city.

34:49

It says also on either side of the river, the tree of life with its 12 kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month.

34:56

The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Then he talks of how there will no longer be pain or suffering or any of these things anymore, and how there's no night, and there's no need of light or lamp or sun because the

35:07

Lord God will be their light, and they'll reign forever and ever. So it's significant that where this tree of life is in the garden with Adam, it shows up again at the end of the story, and it's there where eternal life and blessedness away from the presence of sin and evil forever is the reality.

35:27

For me, at least, as we think about that tree, I would see that as a covenant symbol that's held out to Adam, where should you obey, this is what awaits you.

35:37

Justin Perdue Paradise gained. Justin Perdue Paradise gained, exactly. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is present, yes, and it represents the sanction and the potential penalty of breaking this covenant, whereas the tree of life represents what could be earned.

35:50

I think even at the end of Genesis 3, 22 -24, where Adam and Eve are expelled, it's very strong language, they're thrown out of the garden.

36:01

The language is very explicit about how angels with flaming swords are put there to guard the way to the tree of life.

36:08

It's very obvious that Adam no longer has access to this tree because he's broken the covenant, and now access to the tree of life is going to have to come another way.

36:17

It's going to have to come by grace through the work of another, through the works of Christ. I don't know, do you guys track with me there?

36:24

Do you think, hey, brother, you might want to pump the brakes, thoughts? I'm in agreement, but I'll let

36:30

Pat disagree with you. I'm a guest on the show, so I like field guests. I'm in. Well, we have a lot more to say as it relates to covenant theology and the covenant of works.

36:45

We're going to carry that over into our next episode next week. For us, it'll be in just a few minutes, but we do a second podcast that's a lot of fun.

36:53

It's for those who are supporting Theocast monthly donation, and it allows us to produce more content like this, books and all kinds of stuff.

37:02

If you'd like to participate in supporting our ministry, you can go to theocast .org. We do a second podcast every week called

37:08

Simple Reformanda, which means always reforming, and we're going to have some fun time over there with Pat here in just a minute.

37:13

We're going to ask him some questions about some of his favorite books and movies and music and all that good stuff. He may choose to not answer some of them, and that's fine.

37:22

But Pat, it's been good to have you with us. Thank you for joining us this week. It's been a joy. Thank you so much.

37:27

I appreciate it. I'm thankful for Theocast. Yeah. If you have not checked out the Pactum, I'd encourage you to do so.

37:33

You can also listen to all of Mike's sermons. And if he calls you Mike one more time, I don't know what the deal is.

37:38

Good grief. Wow. Anyways, Pat and Mike, we'll see you guys next week.