Tim Challies on Gay Christianity Review Part 2 - A True Politician

The more I've been hearing about this Tim Chalies guy, the more this video makes sense, but the sadder it becomes.

Before we get into today's portion of our response, I did want to mention there was a commenter on my last video that mentioned something that I found was extremely interesting.

He mentioned a Tim Chalice, uh, Chalies, sorry, I'm not doing that intentionally.

A Tim Chalice article, which he talks about how he can't watch the show Stranger Things, which, if you've watched my channel, you know that I recently watched

Stranger Things. I wasn't into it back then, but now I am. And the whole purpose, the whole reason why he felt like he couldn't watch the show without sinning is because there's a scene very early on in the first season where Nancy, she's a high schooler, is kind of pressured into having sex with her boyfriend, and, you know, it's not like full frontal nudity or anything like that, but she takes off her shirt and stuff like that kind of thing.

And the article's actually pretty good, because I would say that for guys that that's a real issue for them, they probably shouldn't watch it, or, you know, fast forward it or something like that.

There's some decent advice in the article. But what I found so interesting and amazing, and this is really amazing, why is it that Tim Challies knows exactly what to do, what repentance looks like when you're watching, you know, a sex scene on TV with a woman?

You know, this is a natural desire. You know, a man's desire thinks a woman's beautiful and things like that.

That's actually natural, although they might take it too far to lustful thoughts and things like that.

Of course, that's definitely not correct for a Christian to partake in. But why does he know exactly what repentance looks like in that situation?

But for some reason, he can't, without getting a lot more information, without, you know, being ultimately nuanced and winsome and just squishy in every way, he doesn't know what repentance looks like when you desire a man, you know, in the same way.

Because here's the reality, like, we might not want to watch Nancy Wheeler take off her clothes on TV.

Yes, that's probably good advice for a lot of Christians. But let's not get it twisted. The desire that you might experience when you see her on TV take off her clothes is different, fundamentally, from the desire to have someone of the same sex.

These are different things, and it should be much easier to answer the second question than the first question.

But for some reason, Tim Challies is very comfortable saying that it would be a sin for him to watch Stranger Things, but not this one.

And I've got some suspicions as to why that's the case. But let's just continue this response, and we'll go forward from there.

...when measured against the history of Christianity. So I also think it's unrealistic to expect that we'll solve it immediately.

And so, within... What he's talking about here, if you remember, he thinks it's unrealistic to solve the issue of gay

Christianity and what repentance looks like for a gay Christian because these ideas are new.

And he's actually talking about these terms, right? The term gay Christian, that's a new term.

And the idea of it being a sexual orientation, these are new terms. And the 2 ,000 -year -old church has never experienced this before.

But the thing is, nobody's really talking about the terms, though, right? Yeah, the word gay is new -ish.

The idea of sexual orientation is new. But we have to understand that these issues aren't new.

The church has been dealing with these issues for forever. We demonstrated that last week. I mean, obviously, everybody knows

Paul wrote about this stuff. The book of Leviticus mentions this stuff. The book of Genesis mentions this stuff.

This is not new at all. But Tim Chalice wants to sort of create this distinction between these new ideas and these new terms and what the

Bible addresses, which I think, as a pastor, is a very stupid thing to do. It's a stupid way to look at the

Bible. So, no, these are not new. We all can recognize that. Tim Chalice knows that.

But for some reason, he wants to make it a little squish. And we're going to ask the question, why is that?

Why does he want to make this issue nuanced and squish in this time, in this day and age? Why is that important to him to do that?

In Christianity, we see a wide spectrum of professed Christians who are saying, that's absolutely, utterly wrong in every way.

Even the desire or the tendency toward homosexuality is itself sinful. Other people lining up more that know the tendency itself or the temptation itself is not sinful.

It's only sinful if you act on it. I think we're giving this time.

One thing I want to point out here, and I hate this sort of thing, and I've criticized many people for this kind of thing.

Tim Chalice is asked a question in a Q &A session. He's at a conference speaking gig or a speech or something like that.

I'd imagine he's been paid for this thing and all of that. People want to hear what he has to say about controversial issues.

That's something that if you're a public Christian in this way, you need to be prepared for. And I think that it's natural for the audience to expect to hear from you on issues like this.

This is why they read your blog. This is why they watch your videos. This is why they're asking you questions.

They come to your event because they want to hear what you have to say. This young man in the audience asks

Tim a question about a very important topic to the questioner. It's just an important topic for Christians in general today.

Let me have a sip of coffee so I can calm down. Tim's response here drives me absolutely insane because he starts off saying, well, this is a new issue.

Then he moves into saying, well, there are some people that say this. We're still figuring this out as a church.

There are some people that say that the homosexual desire is something that needs to be repented of.

And then there's other people that say, well, how could you repent of your desires? No, you don't have to repent of your desires or thoughts in that way.

No, you have to just repent if you actually act on it. So just don't act on it. And Tim, with all due respect, we already know that there are multiple sides to this debate.

This is nothing new. Why do you think this answer adds any value whatsoever to the conversation?

Yes, we are aware. We're not stupid. We are aware that there's a number of sides to this issue.

In fact, Tim, the two sides that you bring up here, they're not the only sides. There are also some people that say that homosexuality is a gift from God and all of that.

Does that mean because there's multiple sides to the debate that somehow this isn't figured out?

We're still figuring out whether or not having sex with a man is a sin. That's not how we do this.

You know what I mean? The existence of a debate says absolutely nothing about the clarity of the word of God.

Nothing. I saw somebody, I think it might have been Pastor Dwight McKissick say this.

He was basically saying, the very fact that there's a debate whether or not women can preach in the church means that it's unclear for Southern Baptists.

I'm like, no it doesn't. No it doesn't. It's clear of one thing that there's still besetting sins inside of us.

Here's the reality. Believing the wrong things about what God has said and believing the wrong things about God, that's actually a sin.

The existence of these disagreements means that somebody is sinning in the process. I think that in some instances it's very clear to see who's doing that.

It's very clear to see in this debate on same -sex attraction and all of that, who is departing from what the scripture clearly says.

Tim, this is not a complicated issue. Is it a sin to desire strange flesh? Is it a sin, if you're a man, to desire another man sexually?

The answer is yes. And so as a pastor, you ought to know what repentance looks like for that.

In fact, I know you do! Because you know, in your mind, it's a sin to watch

Nancy Wheeler undress on TV. And so what do you do? What does repentance look like in that situation?

You know full well what it looks like. You don't watch. You don't watch, even if everybody else is watching.

That's what you said in the article. You said, everyone else is watching this. But you know that you can't watch it.

You can't do it. You know what repentance looks like when you desire something that you ought not desire, and so do

I. And so do I. And so, this drives me nuts because people do this a lot when they have a question asked them that they don't want to answer.

They'll say, some people say this, some people say that. Tim, we want to know what you have to say. That's why he asked you the question.

That's why he came to your speaking engagement. That's why he reads your blog. Because he wants to know what you have to say about this.

And I would assume that the reason he wants to know what you have to say about this is because he respects your opinion.

He respects your opinion. He thinks you're a careful thinker. He thinks that you've shown a lot of clarity about what the

Word of God teaches in other areas. And from your reputation, Tim, I know that that's true.

You do have a reputation for being clear in many areas. Again, I don't follow your work, and that's fine.

But this kind of an answer, Tim, you have to understand this is wrong to do this.

This is wrong to do this. He asked for your opinion. If you don't want to give it, you just gotta say no.

It would be helpful, too, Tim, if you explained why you don't want to give it. You know what I mean?

That would be quite helpful. Which you kind of do towards the end of this answer, but it's just not enough.

And so, yes, we understand that there's a controversy in the church regarding this. That has nothing to do with whether or not this is a confusing issue.

And I don't think, Tim, that you think it's a confusing issue. I think you know the answer here. But for some reason, you're not giving it.

Let's continue. ...on both a practical level and a theological level, really working that out.

And to be honest, I... I don't want to speak broadly on that.

I've had the opportunity to speak individually to people on that. I just think there's so much knowledge you have to get from them.

There's so much you have to draw out of them before I want to speak very bluntly to them.

Okay, so this is actually not terrible. Because, yes, obviously, depending on the person, depending on the specifics of the situation, there might be different approaches.

You know what I mean? He's about to go into a whole thing about people that might not actually be gay, but they're kind of experiencing some kind of emotions.

They love a friend, and people want to convince them that they're gay. And then they accidentally get tricked into being gay or something like that.

We'll get to that. But yeah, of course, the details matter. But again, does the

Bible present... We don't want to be arrogant here, Tim. And so, you seem to be saying that you don't want to speak broadly and bluntly because you need to know the individual first, right?

But the thing is, would you apply this in any other way? In any other sin? Because the

Bible doesn't speak that way. The Bible speaks to us bluntly. And so it's very easy to interpret what

Paul says about this issue. It's very easy to interpret what Leviticus says about this issue. It's very easy to interpret what

Jesus says about feelings in your heart, lusts in your heart, and things of that nature.

These are things that apply. So again, obviously, the response that a lot of people have to this video is that, just replace homosexuality with any other sin and see if it works.

Would you have said the same thing if somebody said to you, well, there's a pedophile Christian out there and he's got these feelings in his heart and he wants to have sex with a child?

What do we do with that? Would you say, Tim, well, hmm, this is still an issue that's very debatable.

I mean, this is an orientation and I don't want to speak bluntly and broadly without having more information about this pedo.

Like, you wouldn't say that. Everybody knows you wouldn't say that. For some reason, this issue, you want to be nuanced, you want to be careful, you want all this stuff, and again,

I have my suspicions as to why that is, but it's just, Tim, it's not enough, man.

This is weaselly. This is effeminate. This is not what we need right now.

And to be perfectly blunt, if you're not going to stand for what the Word of God stands for without apology, without, you know, walking things back, then why do you put yourself in the place where you can speak the

Word of God to God's people? You see, the big problem with this, and we're going to stop here, we're going to continue in a little bit, but the big problem here,

Tim, is that when you don't speak bluntly, where the Word of God speaks bluntly, and you think, well, you know,

I want to be more winsome because strategically this is the right thing to do, and I want to get them into the kingdom, but I might not be able to do it with the bluntness, this is no different than the attractional church people that I know have been ripped mercilessly by friends of yours and Big Eva in general.

This is attractional church stuff because my position is we ought to be blunt where the

Scripture is blunt. We ought to be nuanced where the Scripture is nuanced. And that's how you do it because I'm not smarter than the

Holy Spirit. So sometimes people need to be smacked in the face with the reality of what they're doing.

That's why Paul wrote the way he wrote in Romans 1. That's why Paul wrote the way he wrote in Corinthians.

Because people sometimes need to be, you know, shaken into reality. This is unnatural what you're doing.

And so it's unbecoming of a minister of the Gospel to speak in this way.

I just want preachers to understand that this is a heavy mantle that you wear when you preach the

Word of God and you're watching over the flock of God and stuff like that. That's a heavy mantle and it's a burden.

And I know that people like you know this. Theoretically it's a burden but then you go and you act to make it not a burden.

That's not how this works. You can't unburden yourself from this mantle.

This is a heavy mantle. And there are people in your flock, and this is the thing that angers me about this kind of response, right?

There are people that responded to me and said, I struggled with same -sex attraction and this squishy kind of like, you know, the desire who knows if it's even something you can repent of.

That is a terrible message. That's bad news for someone who struggles against that sin.

That's bad news. You're telling me that the gospel is not enough to get rid of these desires?

Like, God can change my heart, but not that much. That's terrible news, man.

That's not the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, if you don't have the fortitude to take the heat, to take the criticism, to maybe get fined for the speech that you use because you're preaching the way the

Bible preaches, if you don't have the strength and the fortitude to do it, then step aside for someone who will.

I'm not a pastor, so I don't have that burden that you have on your head. But the thing is, let me stop there.

Let me stop there. I think I've made my point. We're gonna continue this. We're about a minute -fifty into it.

We'll continue this tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it. I hope you found this video helpful. God bless.