Spiritual Leadership (part 1)

Our father We thank you as the giver of all good gifts that you give us not only a place to meet. But Rain change of seasons Reminders that you are sovereign that you're in control of all things father we thank you for.

The word for the things that it shows us about you about ourselves about the things it teaches that we should aspire to be the things that we failed to be Father every day. We thank you that by your power by your Holy Spirit.

We are being shaped and molded into the image of Christ, even if Sometimes it's imperceptible to us father we Counted a privilege to be your children and to be gathered here today and bless each one here.

We pray in Jesus name. Amen. Well, so we're talking about spiritual leadership and I Want to preface it with a couple things this morning. First of all, I'm going to be giving some bad examples. There's an old song that says I'm mr. Bad example, I don't want to be the bad example but I'm going to give some bad examples and One of the reasons you give bad examples is so that people understand what's Is wrong, but also so they appreciate what is correct and everything else.

And I have to ask this question. Does anybody know who Benny Hinn is. Okay, would anybody like to give me a brief explanation of who he is. Prosperity preacher is correct a Healer. Right, what's he best known for?

Fake healing is one. I my favorite my personal favorite is there's a Video with a song superimposed over it's one of those speed metal songs that I don't listen to. But it's called watch the bodies hit the floor.

Right, and he's whipping his jacket around. I mean, I wish we could do stuff like that in here. Actually, I don't because it'd be a major distraction. But he's whipping his jacket around and people are just falling all around him and what's he doing?

He's slaying them in the spirits. Right, that's the idea and when you hear that or when you see that slaying in the spirits. What do you you know and people falling down? What do you think it is? Satan.

I agree, but I mean what what's it what even if you put the best possible spin on it? What's he actually supposed to be doing? I mean if I throw this at you what happens? Nothing, but if I throw say a 90 mile an hour fastball at you.

Then what you respond? Maybe you even fall over. So the idea is he's throwing around some kind of force and that force would be the Holy Spirit. So I mean at best it's heretical. He would tell you that the Holy Spirit is a person but they treat the Holy Spirit as if he is a force.

With that as a preface. How many of you are familiar with Kosti Hinn? One two three four five six. And Kosti Hinn is The nephew of Benny Hinn so I took this from the September 2019 issue of table talk magazine from Ligonier ministries.

It's an interview with Kosti Hinn. Benny Hinn's nephew. He says what was it like this a question or what was it like growing up in the prosperity gospel movement as A nephew of one of its most prominent leaders and teachers.

They're referring to Benny Hinn. And he says this is Kosti. He says it was as lavish as anyone would imagine but to me it was normal. Every car we drove was nothing short of luxury. We drove Mercedes Benz's Bentley's Maserati's and BMW's.

My car of choice was an h2 on 22-inch rims. At one point we had a Ferrari F430. I don't even know what that is. It sounds like either a lawnmower or an airplane or something. I don't know but I Don't follow Ferrari enough to know what an f430 is, but I think it must be expensive.

Says we had an f430 from a business deal with ministry associates. I'll never forget driving it around with my friends around Orange County while my dad was away. And that would be Benny Hinn's brother on a trip.

It was like those movies in which the rich spoiled kids do whatever they want while their parents are or because their parents are powerful. The problem was that I was the son of a preacher and our lives were an embarrassment to the gospel.

Every whole hotel suite was prime Minister presidential or royal. We flew on private Gulfstream jets that were paid for by ministry donations. Lived in multiple million-dollar homes ate at the best restaurants and went on shopping sprees to the finest stores around.

Perhaps the best illustration of what life was like would be to say that even my undershirts were Versace. Okay, the only other question I'm gonna read and then we'll we'll get into this here. What prompted you to leave the prosperity gospel movement.

After growing up enjoying the benefits of it through my father and uncle I worked in the center of it and started preaching it started preaching the prosperity gospel. A Series of events over the course of four years and faithful people planting seeds in my life put cracks in the dam of my theology.

I do not recall having questions throughout my teenage years. But I stayed silent or I do recall having questions through my teen years, but I stayed silent for fear of God's judgment now. Listen to this.

We were always taught to never Touch the Lord's anointed and that's something we're gonna hear more about in a second and That means no questions and no criticism. In other words, there's a leader can't Question him can't criticize him.

He says if something like a false prophecy was grossly inaccurate or the behavior of a leader perversely sinful. You said nothing. Eventually, I entered ministry as a pastor at a church plant and one day I was studying for a sermon on John 5 1 to 17 the healing at the pool of Bethsaida Bethesda, sorry.

The senior pastor of the church gave me a John MacArthur commentary and in the midst of my study I broke down in tears repenting of my sin and committing to preach the true gospel in that study I suddenly realized that God is sovereign and Jesus healing ministry could not be twisted into some formula for gain.

While he healed the man at Bethesda. He did so of his own volition. The man had no prior faith gave no special offering and didn't even know who Jesus was. In other words, he's saying listen the normal formula for a faith teacher is You have to believe you have to give.

You have to start something and then if your faith is sufficient then the healer can you know act on your faith and bring it to fruition and The idea of the prosperity gospel of the healing ministry is that God is obligated by what you do.

If you plant a seed God is obligated to then You know harvest that seed so he goes on to say and. Many other false doctrines felt like dominoes after that moment. I soon entered seminary began discipleship with trusted mentors Mentors and was completely overtaken by the doctrines of grace.

The rest is a long story. Read about it. My book is 1995 Simon Schuster. Okay, so now the next month Table talk which has a lot of good stuff in it, by the way table talk magazine ran this article from Dr. Lopez from Brazil says there are many passages in the Bible where expressions similar or identical to the one in the title of this article, which is Touch not the Lord's anointed Appear including first Chronicles 16 when Okay, the most well-known passage dealing with not touching the Lord's anointed May be the one in which David pressured by his men to seize the opportunity to kill Saul answered The Lord forbid that I should do this thing to my Lord.

The Lord's anointed to put out my hand against him seeing he is the Lord's anointed. In other words, he wasn't going to touch the Lord's anointed. The doctor goes on to say he says David's reluctance to kill Saul because Saul was the Lord's anointed has been interpreted By many evangelicals and many false teachers as a biblical principle that applies to pastors of modern-day churches.

To them once the pastors are the Lord's anointed one cannot raise a hand against them. And by the way, please don't raise your hand against us. That would be you can criticize us or do other things, but don't raise your hand.

That is they cannot be contradicted questioned or criticized. God's anointing works as a kind of protection. It's a bubble. It's an immunity given by God to his anointed. To go against them would be to go against God himself.

But is that really what the Bible teaches? He says the expression the Lord's anointed refers to how kings of Israel were officially chosen and Designated by God to occupy the role Through the anointing done by a judge or prophets.

David didn't want to kill Saul because he recognized the Saul although unworthy. Occupied a role designated by God David did not want to be guilty of killing the one who had received the royal anointing.

However, what cannot be ignored in this respect for the life of the king or what cannot be ignored is that this respect for the life of the king did not stop David from confronting Saul and accusing him of injustice and Perversity in persecuting him David without cause.

David was not going to kill him. But he invoked God as judge against Saul in front of the whole army of Israel and openly asked God to punish Saul. David also told his allies that God himself in due time would kill Saul for his sins.

But David did not want to be the one to kill him. So Last little bit here men of God those anointed by him for pastoral work don't reply to disagreements criticisms and questionings by shutting the mouths of the sheep with Don't touch the Lord's anointed.

But with work arguments truth and sincerity don't touch the Lord's anointed is the reply of those who do not have an argument or An example to give as an answer. So here's What spiritual leadership is not?

First of all, it's not the same as worldly leadership. It's not the same as worldly leadership. Why would that be? What you know when we think of worldly leadership, what do we think of and please don't say, you know, President Trump.

What do we think of when we think of worldly leadership? Power I mean, let's put it this way. What's the difference between the CEO of a corporation and a pastor of a church? Okay, money is one but what I mean really what are the differences.

Yes I mean, I I could tell you this that Mike doesn't have a multi-million dollar parachute if he gets fired. I do but he doesn't Charlie okay. So another way to look at this situation then is what is success right is Business success different than church success.

Okay, and the reason is because Jesus never said I'm going to build my business and no one will prevent me. You know, not even the power of hell will stop me from doing that. Is it possible for a say a business leader?

To Lie to advance his business. What would we yeah, what would we say about a pastor who lied to you know Grow the church or you know that guy so in many ways, I mean there are some similarities. I think We could argue there are some similarities.

But I think when people and there are whole books written about this about how to take business principles and run your church right like it's a business and the problem with that is it doesn't Generally line up with what the Bible says.

So would it be right to say? Well if somebody's successful in business, they automatically should be say an elder no, and If somebody's a good elder, would they necessarily make a good businessman? And I think the answer again would be no.

It could but they not necessarily Talking about spiritual leadership and what it's not it's not a place of Unquestionable authority and You know whether we're talking about a church or at home in Both places the leadership is accountable and to whom is the leadership accountable the Lord.

We know that you know Pastors are going to face strict judgment, but so are husbands and fathers. Right, they're accountable. They're the head of the family and they're going to be held accountable. Let's turn to Matthew 23 and I want to you know, sometimes people have a problem with the calling out of specific names and you know holding people accountable in that way and I want to turn to What Jesus said in Matthew 23, I don't know if even People talk about Beth Moore quite like this on the internet.

So Beth Moore some time ago. She's a female teacher woman teacher who sometimes teaches men and says things that she ought not to say and She's been criticized here lately. In fact, somebody Famously said, you know, Beth Moore should go home and Someone else who's a little bit closer practice his office just over here Asked the question.

Where's Beth Moore's husband, right? What's the good question, where is her husband. In the kitchen making dinner, I think okay. So Matthew 23 and I'm gonna read verses 1 to 12. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples the scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses's seats the symbol of Power here so do and observe whatever they tell you.

But not the works they do for they preach but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens. Hard to bear and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

They do all their deeds to be seen by others for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and Greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others but you are not to be called rabbi for you have one teacher and you are all brothers and Called no man your father on earth for you have one father who is in heaven.

Neither be called instructors for you have one instructor the Christ the greatest among you shall be your servants. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. Now when you read that and you think about these Pharisees, and you know Jesus warm remarks about them.

Okay, I'm being facetious. But can you summarize what he's saying about them? I have a few words that I took to summarize what he's saying like here your ideas. What is he actually saying about these people?

They're hypocrites. They're self-righteous. They look for honor. I mean these are mostly the ones I had I had hypocrites. There I put their frauds right they do all their deeds to be seen by others. They're.

They're selfish they want honor. They're proud. But the one I liked maybe the most that I came up with Tyrants why because it says they tie up heavy burdens hard to bear and lay them on people people's shoulders.

What does that mean? More laws let me give you some more rules. You can only walk this far on the Sabbath. You can only do this you can only do that. You cannot do this you will do this. You teach the commandments of men as if they were you know from God and that's exactly right they teach These made-up commandments and make them laws.

They put them you know again all these heavy burdens on people now. Real life scenarios, what would you say about a church? Which has excommunicated 40 of its members over a two-year period. Most of them are charged with factiousness.

40 almost half of the church. What's that? Factiousness a smaller church, that'd be true. Now there could be good reasons for it right, but how about this? How about if most of them? Were excommunicated in charge with factiousness after they left the church, what's that?

Sounds like they're hiding something and Most of the people who left I mean almost all of them left without saying a word. They just send a letter to the elders saying these are the reasons why we're leaving.

That's it essentially interesting because I listened to one of their meetings after a family left and they got together on a weeknight to excommunicate this family and Each of the people who stood up to talk said how much they regretted the family leaving and how wrong the family was.

But it was the right thing to excommunicate them. Now does that sound like it's in keeping with Matthew 18 in other words if the idea is? Restoration the idea is repentance, and they leave the church, and they say these are the reasons we're leaving.

You know we're not out to make a fuss or anything like that. We're just out of here. Then you bring it up in front of the church, and you say we're gonna punish them for leaving. Which is what they do?

Same church practice Sunday night. Pulpit confession of sins. Everybody gets up confesses some sin. Some of which Without getting into detail are really unfit for people of the opposite gender to hear.

Not things that we should be talking about. I don't think. What if I told you that the pastor of this church meets alone with women both Married and single meets alone with them. What if I told you that the pastor when he meets alone with these married women asked them about their physical relationship with their husband?

What if I told you that that pastor teaches that to own a gun is to commit murder? Because after all why else would you have a gun unless you intended to shoot somebody. What if I told you that he said it's a sin.

To stand for the national anthem because you're worshiping the flag. To sin to celebrate Christmas because that's idolatry. What if I told you that that pastor said that there is almost nothing in your lives?

Right as a church that the elders can't be involved in if they want to be sounds like a cult. And I would agree with that. Why does that sound like a cult? There's zero room for grace. I Mean the irony is grace is in their name, but grace shouldn't be in their name because it should be grace less, right?

The church at which you cannot be forgiven that would be a good name for it. You cannot criticize leadership at all. You can't even well you can't talk to them certainly about things. Because if you do guess what the response is.

Touch not the Lord's anointed right don't do that. Let's look at Luke 15 for a moment. Luke 15 I'm gonna read verses 1 to 7 one of the less referred to parables of Luke 15. I Mean the main one is the prodigal son right.

Luke 15 starting in verse 1 now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to him to Jesus and the Pharisees and scribes grumbled saying This man receives sinners and eats with them so he told them this parable.

What man of you having a hundred sheep if he has lost one of them does not leave the 99 in the open country and Go after the one that is lost until he finds it and when he has found it He lays it on his shoulders rejoicing and when he comes home He he calls together his friends and his neighbors saying to them Rejoice with me for I have found my sheep that was lost.

Just so I tell you there will be more joy in heaven over One sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who need no repentance. And my question is when you think about that church What is it? You know if you were to identify let's just say the leadership of that church.

Would you say who would you say that it most sounds like in this? Parable the Pharisees. You know, I can't believe you would say such a thing. I can't believe you would do such thing. I can't believe there was a time they've taught this they've modified it over the years for Reasons that I don't need to get into right now, but they used to say Don't let your daughters play sports.

Don't let your daughters go to college. Why would they say that? Why do you need an education if you're gonna be in the kitchen? What does that have to do with being a good mother and a good wife. Chain those girls to the kitchen.

That's what they need. I don't learn them. Interesting place. So what's the church leadership look like? What should it look like? Three-piece suits. Oh wait, sorry. Let me read the London Baptist confession of faith.

I knew then we'll Get back into the word here for a moment. Just this it doesn't say a whole lot about pastors, which I found a little Surprising, but let me read this part. The work of pastors being constantly to attend the service of Christ in his churches in the ministry of the word and prayer With watching for their souls as they must give an account to him.

It is incumbent on the churches to whom they minister not only to give them all due respect But also to communicate to them of all their good things according to their ability so that they may have a comfortable supply Without being themselves entangled in secular affairs.

Which means what? They shouldn't have to work outside the church it may also be capable of exercising hospitality toward others and This is required by the law of nature and by the express order of our Lord Jesus who hath ordained that they preach the gospel or they that preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

With that said I want to turn to first Peter chapter 1. Because I I'm sorry first Peter chapter 5 verses 1 to 3 first Peter chapter 5 and and I just think this is such a stark Contrast of that church.

I was talking about and if I if I told you You know who is there some of you would know. If I told you some of the people that have taught there one of the names would blow your mind. It's just interesting and sad.

First Peter chapter 5 verses 1 to 3. So I exhort the elders among you as A fellow elder notice the humility of Peter right not the first Pope just a fellow elder. I'm just a pastor like you guys as A fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed.

Shepherd the flock of God that is among you. Exercising oversight not under under compulsion, but willingly as God would have you not for shameful gain. But eagerly not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

Now when we think about the other place, you know where they're ruling with an iron fist effectively. Watch the video where the pastor said you know I can't go into your house and tell you what color sofa you ought to have but basically nothing else ought to be out of my Control or dominion.

I Don't like how you're spending your money. I don't like how you do this the other the other so. Absolute control right and that's not the picture we see here. They're shepherds exercising oversight.

One man Freyberg says literally as one who takes care of a group of animals especially shepherding a flock. Listen tend feed pastor. But metaphorically of administrative and protective activity in relation to a community of believers.

Guide. Care for look after. All. Right, that's the idea not you know. I mean, I'm going to run them with a rod of iron and you know smash them like. That's just not the idea at all. Let's go to the more obvious ones.

First Timothy. Yeah, I see that hand. Cory go ahead. That's a good question, and I didn't study that but if I were to say you know. If I were to guess and I and I will guess because it's what I do I Would say we'd probably see the answer that in First Timothy or at least an answer to it, so let's.

So let's turn the first to a nice segue. I like segways. Segways are good first after three. I Can always count on Cory for a nice segue, and it would be right in the beginning here. The saying is trustworthy if anyone aspires to the office of overseer.

He desires a noble task and and I'll just stop there for a moment. You know. There be people there may be men Who are qualified to be elders who don't want to be an elder. In which case then what? They shouldn't be elders, and they shouldn't be compelled to be elders right not under compulsion.

They're not forced to do it. I Mean can you think of a reason why somebody wouldn't want to be an elder? Sit with me for an hour, and I'll get started on why you shouldn't want to be an elder. I don't know.

It's great a lot of times. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer he desires a noble task therefore an overseer must be above reproach the husband of one wife sober minded self-controlled. Respectable hospitable able to teach.

Not a drunkard not violent, but gentle not quarrelsome. Not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well. And notice how those two things go together from one. I want to just pause there for a moment.

Not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well. Household having to do with it's the word from which we get economy. It's this whole. It has to do with your whole well-being kind of thing and it includes finances.

And if you're a lover of money. You don't know how to and you you know and you get yourself in a debt or something. You know deeply in a debt this could be a problem. He must manage his own household well with all dignity keeping his children submissive.

For someone does not know how to manage his own household. How will he care for God's Church? Right if you if your Children are known as the hooligans of the town. Yeah, probably ministry is not for you.

He must not be a recent convert or he may become puffed up with conceit and Fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace Into a snare of the devil.

So those are qualifications for elders. And when we see that again and we just think about This other church and the kind of things they do I Mean talk about puffed up with conceit and all these other things, you know laying all these burdens on other people.

But deacons and I want to read this and then just ask a couple questions. Deacons Likewise must be dignified not double-tongued not addicted to much wine not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience and let them also be tested first then let them serve as deacons.

If they prove themselves blameless. Their wives must be dignified not slanderers, but sober minded faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife managing their children and their own households.

Well for those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith. That is in Christ Jesus. Now most of you know this what's the main difference between a deacon and a teacher?

And an elder sorry, they must be able to teach. Oh, thank you. They must be a teacher. Gave it away. It's like All right. Sorry. Sorry. I stepped on my own. It's not really a punchline though. Isn't no not really.

Now reading through all of that, you know, was there something where you just thought. You know as a as a male or even as the wife of of somebody's there's something there. You just thought that is a goal.

That's just too high. You know, I should never attain to that or my. My husband should never even shoot for that you know, here's what it doesn't say an Elder must walk on water. You know an elder must be perfect a Deacon must be able to hover.

I mean we don't we don't see things like this. We're. What's that? Bob was just talking about the time. He did hover. Oh, sorry. He was blown away by hovering deacons, I think those were angels actually Bob but.

But I mean we we you know sometimes. These are these are just things. I mean this is kind of like if we were to distill Christian living into what is that 13? 13 verses. I mean this would be pretty close to it, right?

What's a Christian male supposed to look like? What's a Christian woman supposed to look like we could get all the principles right out of there. Now let's go to another passage and we and we'll maybe well I want to go to John chapter 10 and I'll just while you turn in there.

I'll just kind of Titus one the main point of Titus one. For me, you know as a differentiator me. I should just look at it. So I just don't totally. But the main thing is there he does talk about Elders needing to be able to exhort and sound doctrine and refute those who Contradict sound doctrine and the reason that that's important, of course is because that's a lot of what we do, right?

We have to be able to I Mean mostly the same kind of thing Trustworthy cetera exhort and able to give instruction sound doctrine and rebuke those who contradicted. Very important because the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, right?

It has to be the way it has to be faithful. The word has to be faithfully taught here. If it's not that's an issue and that's why elders have to be able to do that now John 10 and I just want to again illustrate what?

The difference between Proper shepherding and improper shepherding is by just using the Lord Jesus as the ultimate example. John 10 verses 1 to 16. Truly truly I say to you he who does not enter the sheepfold of the door or by the door But climbs in by another way that man is a thief and a robber.

But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep to him. The gatekeeper opens the sheep hear his voice and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own He goes before them and the sheep follow him for they know his voice a stranger.

They will not follow but they will flee from him for they do not know the voice of strangers. This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them truly truly I say to you I am the door of the sheep.

All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. Now let me just pause there for a moment who is he talking about. All who came before me were thieves and robbers.

Okay, people who said they were the Christ and they weren't the Pharisees the scribes right the religious leaders who were supposed to shepherd the flock and did not. Certainly there were false Christ popping up especially around that time.

But it was the the Pharisees and the scribes who were Really bent on leading the people astray and getting the people to follow them they had the power. Okay. The sheep did not listen to them to the false ones right the false Christ.

But also the true sheep that is the elect don't listen to The false teachers. I am the door. If anyone enters by me He will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd who does not own the sheep sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and fleas.

And the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the Good Shepherd. I know my own and my own know me. Just as the father knows me and I know the father and I lay down my life for the sheep.

I have other sheep that are not of this fold and I must bring them also and They will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock one shepherd and one flock one shepherd and You know anytime we're talking about sheep flock church.

Who do those people belong to. I mean they belong to Christ, right? So the idea that someone would exercise kind of dominion over these people when They're not his right. They don't belong to this isn't the Church of Steve.

We didn't you know when they hired Mike they didn't change the church name to the Church of Mike. Because it's not Mike's Church. It's not Scott's Church or Pradeep's Church. You don't belong to us. You belong to the Lord that idea.

Referring back to first Peter 3 where he talks about exercising oversight. First Peter chapter 5 now it is interesting because that word does mean kind of ruling over. It's the word Episcopal from which we get Episcopalian and all that stuff Episcopal.

It does mean, you know, like a hierarchy and that kind of thing ruling over but the idea that the picture is more of Guiding the sheep, right. Exercising oversight isn't going into their house and telling them how to live.

It's helping them when they're straying it's pointing them in the right direction. It's seeing when they're about to run off a cliff and stopping them because sheep do stupid things. Sometimes even we do stupid things when it says they're in first Peter chapter 5 not for shameful gain.

What does that mean? Well, I think it means what Kosti was talking about right flying Gulfstream jets. Picking the best cars, you know going to the Maserati dealer and going. Mm-hmm. F -330 not good enough.

I want the f -430, you know that F -430. I don't know what that is not domineering over the flock. And Dictionary defines it this way is exercising dominion for one's own advantage. Lord it over rule over domineer over.

And I read that and I'm like, that's what that church does. Ruling over domineering over you can't question us. You can't even come to us with Bible questions because we'll shut you down. Also says in first Peter chapter 5 there to be examples of the flock meaning that there to be the embodiment of Biblical characteristics doesn't mean they're going to be perfect.

It just means that you know Paul said this he said follow me as I. Or imitate me as I imitate Christ right? That's the idea. I like picking on Mike since he's not in the room it you know, there are Many things that are admirable about if it's pastor Bob or deep or Scott or Mike, you know.

You say well, I want to be more like Mike in this area. I want to be more like pretty deep in this area. Those are good things right and that's the idea to just be somebody that other people can learn from.

Last I'll do this mark mark chapter 10. Mark chapter 10 verses 42 to 45 and Jesus called to him and said to them, you know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles Lord it over them and there are great ones exercise authority over them, but it shall not be so among you.