The Apologetics Legacy of Walter Martin: A Conversation with his Daughter

Walter Martin’s apologetics legacy and the burden for the lost

All right, welcome back to another episode of Revealed Apologetics. I'm your host, Eli Ayala, and I say this at the beginning of every show, every time I have a guest, I'm super, super excited. And today, I really mean it, as I meant it back in the day as well, but I really mean it specifically because it is my great pleasure to be interviewing the daughter of a great Christian apologist, a great Christian man, Dr. Walter Martin.

We're going to be having his daughter, Cindy Martin Morgan on today to talk about the legacy of her father. If you do not know who Dr. Walter Martin is and you're into apologetics, perhaps you have been living under a rock.

I mean, he passed away in the late 80s, but his impact has really influenced a lot of people as he is considered the father of cult apologetics. And so if you're doing apologetics ministry and evangelism ministry with Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, it's probably the case that you have come across his work as he is the author of the classic book, The Kingdom of the Cults.

And so he definitely is very impactful in that specific area of ministry. Just real quick before I do formally introduce our guest, who by the way, wrote a magnificent book entitled The Bible Answer Man, Walter Martin and Hank Hanegraaff, Dr. Martin's Daughter's Reflections on CRI's Founder, Its History and Its Current President.

I just finished reading it the other day and it was absolutely awesome. Very awesome, touching personal stories. You get to see an awesome personal side to Dr. Martin as well as his impact and influence and as many connections and relationships with some interesting people along the way.

So I highly recommend you guys check that book out. You can download it on Kindle, that's how I got it. You can download it on Amazon and I highly recommend that you guys do that. But real quick, before I introduce Cindy here and kind of invite her onto the screen with me, I have to say, I remember very distinctly my first time ever listening to Dr. Walter Martin.

Of course, he passed away, I believe in 89 and I did not get into apologetics until after high school. Graduated many, many years ago, 2001. And I remember before I got married, I had an argument with my parents and I actually left my house and I spent the night at my future mother-in-law's.

She put the sofa couch out for me. And in my frustration, I'm like, I'm gonna listen to something. And I happened to find the audio of a debate with Walter Martin and I think his name was Van Hale or something like that.

He was a Mormon apologist. And I stood up all night listening to this man, Walter Martin, who I've never heard of before, refute Mormonism in such a powerful and convincing way. I actually felt uncomfortable for the Mormon gentleman.

He did it graciously and respectfully, but this man's knowledge of both the Bible and Mormonism was expansive and it definitely came across in that debate. And that drew me to explore, who is this guy?

And apparently, at the time I listened to that audio, he had passed away, but apparently I learned that he was not just Walter Martin, he was the original Bible Answer Man. And so that was super exciting and that kind of was my gateway drug, so to speak, into the work of Dr. Walter Martin.

And he's impacted my thinking in many ways since then. So without further ado, I'd like to invite Cindy Martin Morgan, the daughter of the late Dr. Walter Martin on with us here. And how's it going, Cindy?

I'm doing fine, thank you. Thanks for having me, Eli. Well, thank you for coming on. I mean, as we expressed on the phone before, you have no idea who I am. I can't imagine why you don't know who I am.

That's okay. But you, I'm sorry? I'm sorry.

That's okay. If you don't know who I am, that's perfectly fine. Not a lot of people do.

But I was very grateful of the fact that even you didn't know who I was or anything about my ministry, you were gracious enough to agree to come on. And so for that, I'm very grateful. Thank you. Well, thank you for having me.

So why don't you take a few moments? I kind of gave an introduction about your dad and who you are, but is there anything you'd like to say to the folks before we get started with kind of our kind of line of questioning here today?

Well, I'm just happy to be here. I'm always happy to share stories about my dad and share what God did in his life. I'm so excited about the fact that as Christians, the work that the Lord does through each of his children lives on forever, even after we're home in the house of God.

And that has been demonstrated to me over and over and over again in regards to my father's life. I've had so many people, just countless people come to me and tell me how his ministry touched his life and blessed them or how God used him to draw them to Jesus Christ or draw them out of a cult or whatever it might be, how God used them.

And it's such a privilege to be used by the living God. And I'm so thankful to have had a father that loved Jesus Christ and led me to Jesus Christ and helped others to know the real Jesus. Hmm.

Yeah, what I very much appreciate about your father is that he, in everything that he did, whether it was on the radio or he's speaking, he's all, I mean, he's just filled and saturated with the scriptures.

I mean, the Bible Answer Man is an appropriate name for your father and just listening to him makes the listener want to study the scriptures more. Did you find that in your relationship with him, just talking with him, it made you just wanna go deeper into the scriptures?

I really felt that with him as I grew older, of course, as a kid. He was always filling our heads full of the gospel and demonstrating it with his life and all of the rest, of course. But as I grew older, especially, I felt that.

He really had a fire for Jesus Christ. He was just really on fire for Christ. And I'm just thankful to have been caught up in his excitement for the Lord. So it was really, really something to see. And I'm thankful that I was there to see it.

How Walter Martin came into apologetics through a burden for cults and false teaching

Yeah. Well, you had expressed to me just a little bit earlier that your father loved the Lord for a very long time. So he was a believer for a very long time. Of course, you were raised in a Christian home.

So let's move forward to kind of more of the emphasis of what got him into apologetics specifically. Because when we're born again, we're not, some people, I guess, suppose are drawn to the field of apologetics, but some people kind of stumble into it, right?

As they kind of experience objections and things like that. I'm sorry? It appears that way, doesn't it? They stumble into it. That's right, that's right. But how did your father get into apologetics in general?

And then maybe we can talk a little bit about his specific area of expertise.

Well, my impression always was just his heart for the lost. He also had a passion for truth. He wanted to, of course, teach others how to come to Jesus Christ, but he also wanted to teach people how to defend their faith and he also wanted to help people.

He realized early on that people were embracing cults and it really disturbed him so deeply. He really had a heart cry for those who were deceived by, for example, Mormonism, not being the true Jesus, that cult having all the terminology, and yet it wasn't Christianity.

And Mormons believing they can be, Mormon men, if they're good enough, can be the God of their own planet and procreate throughout eternity. And Jesus to them is the spirit brother of Lucifer. So not the Jesus that we know from the Bible.

And so that really troubled my father. He really wanted people to be set free, set free by the truth of the living word of God. And he really wanted to hold it out to them and he really wanted to teach the church, which they didn't have a way to address these cults in the church in my father's day.

They weren't addressing them. And so my father saw that need. God gave him that discernment to see the need for the church itself to come alive in this particular area and start to teach the body how to defend the faith once for all delivered unto the saints and how to help people that were blinded by cults, by the cults and give them the tools, hold together the tools for them to be able to bring that about for the kingdom of God, so.

Yeah, there are two things that stand out to me in your response there is, of course, being a young man myself and kind of a very energetic kind of guy, I do enjoy a good argument. You have to admit, after you kind of stretch your theological muscles and you're kind of done, you're like, that was fun, you know?

And that's part of the temptation there is to do it for the sake of fun and not doing it just for the sake of truth and out of a genuine love for the lost. But what I noticed in your response there as to why your father got into apologetics, it was his genuine love for people who didn't know Jesus.

And I think that's something very important, especially my listeners that are maybe my own age or younger getting into apologetics. If you're doing apologetics for the purpose of simply winning arguments with no care in your heart for the people that you're speaking with, you are doing apologetics unbiblically.

So I 1 Peter tells us to set apart Christ as Lord in our hearts, always being ready to give a reason for the hope that's within us yet doing so with gentleness and respect. And then of course the Bible teaches with love.

And so I'm very happy that you answered that way because I think that's a good reminder for a lot of folks who are in apologetics. It's more than just, you know, gaining knowledge, but it's actually sharing that knowledge with a genuine love and concern for the lost.

So very much appreciate that. Now, the second part that stood out to me was you kind of shifted into my next question is how do you get involved with the cults? And I think it's very important to recognize, and I'm sure you would agree here, is that, you know, when we do apologetics, maybe this is your experience too, people typically think atheists.

Now I have to talk to the atheists, but as much as the atheist is a concern and we need to deal with that, the cults are vastly more, you know, popular and the more people adhering to them. Do you think it was something of your dad, perhaps an insight to tap into that highly populated segment of society, instead of just focusing on something of like atheism, he saw that there was a much wider mission field here.

And so was that something that played into his desire to kind of focus on that aspect of apologetic study?

Absolutely. I really think he wanted to clear away the cobwebs. I think he really wanted to shine the light on the truth of the gospel and contrast it against the deception of the cults and false teaching.

And he, for example, when he was in college, on his lunch hour, he would go and stand out on the corner of certain streets and be a little bit of a street evangelist. He didn't scream at people, nothing like that, but he would answer questions.

He would go out and he would ask people, people passing by, do you have a question for me about the Bible? Do you have a question for me about Jesus? And then he would engage with them. And so his love and his burning desire to see people come to Jesus Christ really propelled him forward, even in areas that are uncomfortable.

Not all of us have, it's not our all, excuse me, our comfort zone. He stepped out of his comfort zone and he was willing to do what not everyone would be willing to do for the sake of the gospel. So I really admired that about him.

When you say stepped out of his comfort zone, what do you mean? Are you referring to something of just like having to speak out truth and being in a sense, in a confrontational context, or stepping out of his comfort zone in studying areas that perhaps

I think stepping out on corners and being a little bit of a street evangelist is really out of most people's comfort zones. So I think he was willing to step out of his comfort zone in that regard. I think he was also willing to step out of his comfort zone for Jesus Christ in the sense that he used to always say, we're not here to be popular.

So he got shot down a lot and you get rejected a lot, when you're trying to share the truth of the gospel, when you're trying to share truth in general, you can get shot down a lot. And my father didn't let that sway him because like I said, he would tell people, look, you're not here to be popular.

If you get popularity of the world, while you're serving Jesus Christ, well, good for you. But the goal is to serve Jesus Christ, to do it in love, to do it faithfully, to step out of your comfort zones, because realize that people are going to hell and the time is short and we need to step out with the word of God and pray that he'll reel them in through us, by the power of God.

A Christ-centered home, humor, and the joy of growing up with Walter Martin

Yeah, that's awesome. Now, what I really appreciated about your book is that I got to see a side of your father that most people don't see unless they read a book like that, especially from someone who is your dad.

So you definitely see, we can see these kind of public figures and from afar and we kind of asked the question, I wonder what it was like living with someone like that. Like I do apologetics, I teach high school, middle school, I'm a speaker, I do these sorts of things.

And people come to me with all sorts of questions, but then when they meet my wife, sometimes, how is it living with Eli? Sometimes the story is not... When she is... You have to be really nice to her.

Yes, I'll be very nice. Sometimes the myth that surrounds me diminishes when reality strikes. But let me ask you, what was it like? Maybe you can share for people who haven't read your book, but I strongly encourage people to do so.

What was it like growing up with the Bible Answer Man as your dad?

Well, it was really a lot of fun. I can tell you he had a fantastic sense of humor. He was always making us laugh. He taught us to kind of laugh at each other too, which was really good. He laughed at himself.

He was very self-deprecating and his humor. And so I loved that about him that he could laugh easily and just have fun with us. We had something called Daddy's Day. He traveled quite a bit for ministry.

And yet on the weeks he was home, there was what we call Daddy's Day, which was Saturday. And we would go for rides in the car and he would sing songs. He'd insert our names into the songs and they were silly songs or sweet songs.

And he would do that and it was so precious. And we'd go bowling. We would grab some lunch. We'd go shopping. But he always would put us front and center and draw us out. And we just had the best times.

They were so great that I remember thinking, I don't even wanna spend the night at friends' houses because I just love being with my dad. I just thought he was my best friend. I just, I loved being with my dad.

And he just, he really not only taught us the word of God and interspersed that throughout our lives, but we really had fun together. And he was just a funny guy. I think one of the real funny stories, this happened later when I married my husband, Rick.

Rick was so awed by the Bible Answer Man, Walter Martin. And he was just kind of intimidated by that a bit. And yet Rick has such a brilliant mind of his own and really has studied out theology and church history and all that stuff.

But even so, he just felt like, oh, he felt a little tongue tied sometimes around my dad when it came to talking about the word of God. But I wanted them to talk and I wanted to hear them debate. And I sort of set Rick up, where I...

We... That's terrible. Yeah, I know, it's just terrible. It's so terrible. I want you to talk to my dad for a couple of minutes. But one time we picked up my, and he still loved me. One time we picked up my dad from the airport and I jumped in the back seat and let my dad sit in the front as usual when we did stuff like that.

And they get all settled and the car starts and everything, we get going. And then I ask my dad, I said, Rick really is wondering about, he wants to know about, he really wants to discuss this. He was wondering about the sovereignty of God or something they didn't agree on because my dad wasn't a Calvinist, Rick was a Calvinist.

I wasn't a Calvinist at the time. And so I kind of wanted to hear the debate and see who would win.

And I think Rick was just ready to do me in.

But it was a fun time. That is hilarious. They did it so respectfully and loving. And Rick did a good, he did a really good job. And there was another funny story too where Rick actually called the Bible Answer Man program.

We didn't tell my dad that he was calling in ahead. My dad recognized his voice right away. And so Rick starts asking him these questions and my father just, it was just so funny because you can tell by his answers, he knows it's Rick.

But he doesn't say anything about it, but he gets He's in the back seat, Rick, come on. He's thinking of his son-in-law, and his daughter in the back seat, egging them on. And they had a great exchange on the Bible Answer Man program, kind of anonymously too, in terms of the viewers knowing anything.

Sure. But I love to hear them talk back and forth. And my dad just, my dad had such a sense of humor. In fact, when Rick would drive him sometimes to his Bible class, I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I said it in the book, because I just think it's part and parcel to being a human being.

But my father was always late to everything. In fact, he often said he was going to have his casket delivered late to his funeral because he was always late and you kind of want it to be consistent. But I remember him saying to Rick, you know, just hurry.

You know, if you get a ticket, I'll pay it, you know? And I'm sure they both repented. I'm sure they both did. But we had so much fun with him, learning from him and just having that closeness and the laughter and just everything that we had with him, the godly guidance and just all of it.

We could disagree. We could disagree and talk to him about certain things and he'd love us and it would be okay. It would be okay to disagree. I always knew my father loved me and nothing would ever change that.

And he just had a gracious heart toward people and towards children.

That's funny because he's kind of learning a little bit about... Yeah, see, with the whole Calvinism debates, that's so funny because when someone wants to debate something, it's either that or eschatology that comes up, right?

And I love the way you framed it up. Rick was wondering, you know, you set him up for that. That's so funny. Well, one of the things that I enjoyed about your father and the reason why I enjoyed listening to him, and I still enjoy, I don't know who puts out the podcast, that there's a podcast that I'm subscribed to that has a lot of your father's audio teachings.

But the reason why I like to listen to him is not just for the theological aspects and the biblical aspects, but he's just fun to listen to. I mean, his humor comes across in his lectures, in his Bible studies, and he's able to click on and off this very funny person, but at the same time, at very strategic points, shoots that truth straight home in a way that kind of just locks in your mind.

And I think that's one of the characteristics of a really good and effective teacher. So I very much appreciated that about him.

I did too. And you know, he was the kind of person that was comfortable in his own skin and he didn't miss a beat when he was on the air. In fact, one time he was running into the studio, late again, racing around the hall.

You know, he jumps into his chair, his chair breaks out from underneath of him, his feet go straight up in the air. And as soon as he hits the floor, he says, this is Bible Answer Man, you're on the air.

And so he did the first segment with his feet straight up in the air and he didn't miss a beat. So he was just, you know, that comfortableness and that he was always prepared. It's just, he was a little bit challenged in getting there on time.

So, but he was always prepared. All right, real quick. I just have a technical issue.

My battery's gonna run low. So I have to switch my cameras. So I charged it. I don't know what's going on. I always keep it in there, but we'll switch it up here such as the show must go on, right? Let me see if I could switch it here.

There we go. I'm just a slightly different angle. I hope that that doesn't make a big difference here. There we go. Does that look okay? Is my hair okay? All right, very good. Oh, it's beautiful. You look good.

Well, thank you very much. Okay, so you did mention something that your father was always late. Obviously he's a busy man, okay? Now my next question, and I think this is a kind of a good practical question because a lot of people who do apologetics and study and you're a parent, you have another job, you're trying to balance ministry together.

It's always interesting to me to see someone like your father these public figures who are very heavily involved in ministry on the front, it looks like they often have it together. I mean, I would have known your father comes late to stuff unless you told me.

So we kind of have this perception that these folks have it all together. But I mean, he's a human being, we're all imperfect. How did your father, how was your father able to balance apologetics, writing, studying, speaking, debating, all of the prep that goes into that, being a dad and being present?

I mean, I'm sure this was a great challenge for him. How did he balance that out in his life? Wow, it was an enormous challenge.

I would say he rose to the challenge considerably and so did my mom. I think that they really saw the purpose in what they were doing was the lost and helping people to come out of the cults and find the true Jesus of the gospel.

And I think they were both really driven by their love for Jesus Christ and realizing that God had given them this to do. So she was really a good help mate for him. And I really think that he just saw the eternal perspective.

He loved us all so desperately and he spent as much time with us as he could. But I think that the eternal perspective was always right there in the forefront. And that was in our lives always. I mean, we couldn't even get in the car to drive someplace without my father asking the Lord to please give us a safe journey.

And he was always thanking the Lord for something or pointing the way to the Lord in even the smallest ways. And so I think that we all had a real strong sense of what he was doing was pretty important.

And I think that he brought it home to us so much, even taking us to work with him when we were little to the first CRI building and showing us what daddy did. He drove it home to us so much how, what a big part Jesus is to our lives and to our existence and to our world and why our world needs him so much.

That I remember as a kid feeling the excitement of what he did. And so he was able to read, he was such a good communicator anyway. But even with me, I remember feeling like, wow, he's making me so, I'm so proud of my dad for what he does for Jesus.

And I just remember feeling that and understanding that. And I don't remember growing up feeling like, oh, where's dad? It was, well, dad's telling the world about Jesus. Dad's teaching these things to the people that need to know them.

And so I just remember a strong sense of feeling really proud of him and really understanding that this was a great thing he was doing, how privileged, what a privilege it was that we had a dad who did this and who loved Jesus like he did.

So I just, I don't remember ever feeling like, gee, I wish my dad, he's just not spending enough time with us. My memories are full and my heart is full of what he brought to the table and what he gave us.

So now that's awesome. So he felt the weight of the importance of what he was doing. Of course, no one was doing what he was doing. So in the capacity that, in what he was doing, obviously you have people who are evangelizing, doing apologetics, but in the capacity in which he did it, I think he was very unique.

He was doing something that I think the church very much needed. But when you said that he kind of had the sense of eternity, kind of an eternal big picture, kind of we're here, we need to appreciate the moment that we're in and we pray that God has his hand over our family, the ministry.

In what specific tangible ways did he remind you guys of the importance of Jesus? I mean, your siblings and yourself, did he, when you guys were together, did you guys have personal devotions together?

Was he a preachy kind of guy? Like, oh, here comes dad again. He's gonna start quoting the Bible. Or how did he integrate all of that in his parenting? Well, he was always quoting the Bible. Okay. He always emphasized the importance.

Of memorizing scripture. I remember as a teenager, particularly, as a child, he was always teaching us the word of God, of course. But I felt like he was living it too, which is a huge thing to be actually living it out in front of your children, not just let them hear you talk.

They need to see you living it. As a teenager, I can remember my dad and I took many walks and I was so blessed and so privileged to be able to do those walks with him. And I remember him saying to me, one of the biggest things he said to me that has stuck with me my whole life and has impacted me so deeply and has helped me so much in my walk with Jesus is he used to say to me, keep track of God.

Journal and keep track of God. Put down your prayer requests, put down God's answers and put them down even if you don't like them. Even if you don't like how God resolved a situation, you need to be able to keep track of God.

And then he said, and as you continue on doing this, you're gonna be able to look back and you're gonna have that record and you're gonna be refreshed and you're gonna be reminded of the goodness of God and how God is with you every day in every way and he has your back.

So keep track of God and I never forgot that. That has helped me so much.

That's excellent. I was, I just finished a three-part series, a sermon series at my church on the sovereignty of God. And so we did, the first sermon was the sovereignty of God kind of defined and explained.

And then the second was the sovereignty of God in the midst of kind of a chaotic world. And then my last part was the sovereignty of God in you, you know, individually, you know, God's sovereignty in our lives.

And what I did was I took my wife and I's prayer journal and I was able to, with permission, I was able to read some of our requests of God and the ways in which he answered and provided. And I think that's an awesome advice on the part of your dad, because for myself, I've lived it.

There's something about seeing your struggle and then seeing and experiencing God's deliverance and seeing it on paper and saying, oh my goodness, that was so long ago and God provided like, oh my, that's amazing.

So much better than trying to just remember because we forget. We do forget.

They just start complaining. God would do one miracle after another, even lifted the sea and yet they still, what are we gonna do now? You know, God, you know, and we're just the same way. And I think it's part of the reason that's there is to remind us, you know, that we are human and that we need to reflect on the goodness of God and we need to write it down and hold fast to it and remind ourselves that God, God isn't gonna ever abandon us.

And my father used to always say, God will provide. And Rick and I have had situations in our lives where, you know, we've had to look at each other and say, what are we gonna do? You know, and there was one in particular that was pretty heavy.

And I remember hearing in the back of my mind, just, it wasn't out loud like we're speaking now, but in the back of my mind, I heard my father's voice and words saying the Lord will provide. And I remember thinking, you know, he had told me that throughout my life, the Lord will provide.

And he would show me examples with CRI and say, you know, we've always had struggles, ministries do, they always have financial struggles. And he would say, I would think, oh, this is it. You know, we're right at the end of our rope here because how are we gonna, you know, get over that mountain?

He said, but I would cry out to God and I would see God move the mountain. So he would often show me the mountains God moved. And so it has really strengthened my faith in knowing that the Lord will provide because I saw him provide countless times for CRI, for our family and in my own family.

Now, as life has moved on, the Lord will provide because he takes care of his own and he owns, my father used to say, he owns a cattle on a thousand hills and he does, and he will care for you. He will care for me.

That's awesome, that's awesome.

The discipline of Scripture memory and the habits behind his study

Now, I wanna shift gears. So those kind of the character of your dad, I mean, such an inspiration. There's so much to draw from. This interests me a lot. I mean, I read a lot, you know, but there's something about reading, like about a person, like people that I admire and read about the person and the things that they did in their lives that those sorts of books like your own, how would you like to refer to your book?

There's like the title and then there's that subtitle. So I can keep repeating the title. I just said the Bible answer man. The Bible answer man, okay. Well, that book is the kind of book that I can breeze through very quickly.

Sometimes I read very slowly. This one is just so captivated because you have so many interesting things on every page and the people that he knew and his relationship with certain people, some of the controversies that, and having come with some of that background information, you know, on some of these very well-known points in your dad's ministry to kind of get that insider scoop.

Interesting, so interesting. So I'm very much intrigued about those sorts of things. So my next question is kind of a background question. I mean, your dad was the Bible answer man, but he did not just magically absorb all of this information.

I mean, I understand how apologetics work, how study works. It is work. And so my question for you, and I think listeners would be interested, how did your dad study? What did that look like? I mean, I'm sure it was blocks of time.

I mean, he probably was reading all sorts of stuff and researching. What did that look like in the age before the internet when he couldn't Google something on his phone? You know, I can't see how he was able to do what he did without a phone by his side.

Well, he had a very large Bible and he had it underlined from beginning to end and notes all through it, like you wouldn't believe. I just think it's pulling apart it. And it was clear that he was in that Bible quite a bit.

He also was blessed with a photographic memory. So he once told me too that he read the dictionary because he wanted to put so much more definition, all the definitions of words, he wanted to plant those into his mind and into his brain so that he would have more easy access to the English language type of thing.

So, I mean, I don't know anyone, I've never met anyone in my life that has told me like that, that they read the dictionary. Who can read the dictionary? But he did because he wanted to have an advantage, you know, and he did have an advantage.

So he did that. And the photographic memory was really a blessing for him because he can literally pull things out like you can't believe. Now, you know, just like everybody else, he sometimes would have days where, you know, maybe he didn't change the film, you know.

But overall, you know, I think that his memory was incredible and the gift that God gave him was pretty remarkable. And if you're blessed enough to have that to your advantage, you know, you truly are as blessed as he was.

But I think that the memorization of scripture is really one of the biggest keys, I think, to defending the word of God and to getting through life, to have it to draw from your soul, to comfort you, to guide you, to help you to reach others for the kingdom.

So I think that's a huge thing.

Yeah, and when I explain something to that effect and I try to highlight the fact that scripture is so important in apologetics, I like to think of it as kind of, we study scripture until it becomes the background music of our minds.

It's kind of like when you're humming a song and, you know, it starts playing and you remember the next line because it's in you. It's kind of like you're a filled sponge and when the pressure of life touches the sponge, the water starts gushing out.

I think that's what we need to do. And your dad exemplified that so wonderfully.

Scripture should be the soundtrack of your life. That's right. The soundtrack for your entire life because it's that soft place that you can, when you fall, there it is. And God always showed you something new.