The Regular Man Podcast Interview (Part 1)

The Cost of Speaking Normal Truth Out Loud

Probably the most obvious cost, I guess, is just the relational cost that comes with it. Because the moment that you become the person who starts saying the normal things out loud, you instantly become target number one for everyone who knows you and who disagrees with you.

Warning. The following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include, but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies.

Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.

The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty God is hanging over our heads.

They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come, in that final day, their house will stand.

The Regular Man Podcast, Masculinity, and the July Guest Lineup

Hello and welcome to the Regular Man Podcast, where we celebrate God's gift of masculinity in the life of the regular man. I'm your host, Steve Cruz, and real quick before we jump into today's episode, I want to tell you about what's happening this month, and what you can expect in the near future.

Man, I really haven't been as excited to start a new month as I am right now, and it's not just because we're finished with June, like it is. It's kind of that. But it's also because since I started the Regular Man Podcast like 10 months ago-ish, I've never had so many amazing guests that are just back-to-back-to-back, as I do in July 24.

Like yesterday, I had the nomad himself, Ross Hillier. Friday the 5th at 3 .30, I'm going to have pastor, author, podcaster, businessman, entrepreneur, investor, like a modern-day scholar. C .R. Wiley will be here.

July 11th at 3 o 'clock, author, pastor Zachary Garris will be on, talking about his new book, Honor Thy Fathers. July 25th at 4, the founder and owner and CEO of Armored Republic, also a pastor, an entrepreneur, businessman, and investor, David Reese will be here.

The 29th at 10, Ben Garrett from Haunted Cosmos. He'll be back for the second time. We'll talk about the preternatural, supernatural world, and what the boys in Ogden are up to lately. And I'm still scheduling for July and August and September.

And lastly, the Regular Man store, we just kicked it off. RegularManStuff .com, it's finally up and running. We've kicked off a brand new line inspired by real fans of this show. Band Gear Collection, where actual fans of the podcast can get their very own personalized gear, whether it's t-shirts, names, mugs, whatever, shaker bottles.

You get your quote, you have a picture, whatever you want on there. Just hit me up, check it out. That's RegularManStuff .com. You're definitely going to want to check that out if you're a fan of the show.

Why the Intro Is a Filter for Offense and a Summary of the Show

Now, for today, I've got two guests who share much of the same audience that I have and who don't do a lot of interviews, at least not lately. So I'm super excited to have these guys on from the very successful and controversial The Bible Bashed Podcast.

Welcome to the show, Harrison Kerrigan, Tim Mullett. My guys, come on. Thank you for being on the show. Thanks for having us, man. Yeah, it's good to be here. This is great. We tried to work this out in a while.

Schedules can be a little difficult, and you guys have been super flexible with me. Also, making time where there isn't a lot. We were talking about family stuff before we went online, and man, it can be a struggle just to get five minutes where you're not dealing with kids and diapers and wives and church and work and school and whatever else you've got going on.

So thank you so much for coming on. I really, really am excited to talk to you guys.

Yeah, when you sent the invitation a few months ago, I thought, man, that would be really good to get to talk to Steve. And I know I've appreciated our interactions on Twitter, but yeah, I'm glad we were able to make it happen.

Yeah, this is great. This is great.

We're going to get into this really shortly, but we talked before we went live. One of my favorite intros. You guys have the best intro I've ever seen. It's so cool. And it got my attention. So thanks for being on here.

And the intro is something that's so unique. It gets people's attention. And I'm wondering who came up with that intro and how did that happen? I think it was a bit of a joint effort in a lot of ways.

I remember a lot of it came down to just what were we trying to do with the podcast in general? And the intro, we knew we needed it to just be a short, essentially like a summary of what the podcast would be for people.

And so it starts off with that very fast warning, almost like you're listening to one of those medication commercials where they start listing off all of the side effects. Yeah, exactly. And we decided that we wanted to do something like that, really just to save people a lot of time, honestly.

Like, hey, if you fall in this list, here's what's going to happen. We're already going to tell you what you're going to think about, what we have to say in general. So let's just save you some time there.

But a lot of it just came down to what do we want to do with the podcast in general? And how do we communicate that in a short amount of time right up front where it'll kind of help the people understand exactly what we're trying to do overall and let them decide for themselves if they want to, I guess, dare listen to us.

Yeah, it was a filter for us. So part of it was that we were trying to think about a way to just get all the offense out of the way right at the outset. So part of that was why we leaned into the trigger warning.

I mean, obviously, if you include a trigger warning at the beginning, then you're allowed to say whatever you want after that. So because it gave us permission to say whatever we wanted after that, we thought that that would be a good strategy.

So a lot of it is obviously ironic. It's meant to be ironic. We were thinking about what we were going to name our podcast. So part of it was about thinking, how are we going to name this? We wanted to do something that was communicating that this would be straight talk, essentially.

And we know that there's a lot of podcasts out there with that name, like Straight Talk or whatever. So we were trying to lean into that kind of theme. And we wanted to make the intro a little bit over the top.

I know that we got probably pretty carried away on the trigger warning part of it. Not at all. I love every minute of it. It was a little out of control, honestly. I mean, it started bad, and then it kept on going.

And then I think we thought it would be kind of funny to camp out on the man bun theme for a little bit. So no mercy there. I mean, you can't be offended by that because you're bald. Exactly. I'm in good company.

You're good. We were trying to think about what we were doing with our podcast. And so part of it was we wanted it to have a straight talk kind of feel where we're just going to be no quarter November, all year long kind of feel.

But then we did want to have a little bit of humor in it. And so a lot of our titles are meant to be somewhat funny. And so part of it was we wanted to have a little bit of a slapstick kind of feel. And then when Harrison was putting together the music with the Western theme and all that, I think we were just trying to think through what we were trying to accomplish.

And then we obviously put the preacher clips in there to make people realize that maybe we're somewhat sane. Just kind of regenerated. I don't know what I just listened to, but at least maybe they're listening to some solid guys.

I'm going to steal what Greg Moore said when he hosted me on Dead Man Walking. He was talking about my wall and he said, I knew it was a great idea when I realized that I was jealous because I didn't think about it.

And when I saw your intro, I knew that it was a great idea because I was jealous because I didn't think about it. But if you guys are good with it, I would like to play that because I know that most of the people who are watching, listening probably already know who you are and they love your show and they already watch it.

But there may be a segment of people who listen to me who don't know who you guys are. So do you agree with me playing it right now? Yeah, go for it. Yeah, go ahead. All right, I'm going to play that intro real quick.

My banana hands take a while to get. Are you sure you want to share the screen? All right, can you hear it?

Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include but are not intended to. Professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished Netflix but don't know how to meal plan,.

And people who refer to their pets as fur babies. Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and gloom. Salvation any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin and the wrath of almighty.

Is upon our heads. They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man that on the third day has ascended to the right hand in session for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand. That is so cool.

We approve of this message. Got me hyped up a little bit. I really like that. Right? It does, it really does. So I heard, okay, so you got Vaati in there, you've got John MacArthur, you got Paul Washer, who else is in there?

Conrad, however you say his last name. Yeah, I can't remember his last name. That's why I made you say it. There's Conrad, there's Paul Washer, MacArthur, and Vodie.

So it was super fast, but the warning was, the warning, the following message will be offensive, or the following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include, but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their Bible.

We wanted to cover all our bases, right? Sotomites, men with man buns.

This whole thing is man buns. Those who approve of man buns, man bun enablers, white knights are men with man buns, homemakers who finish Netflix, but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies.

If you were just Christians advised, that's so cool. You said you both came with a combined effort with that? Yeah, it was basically like, what are the most ridiculous ways to communicate a lot of the common issues that we see in Christianity right now?

And I think at the time it was Tim's idea to really camp out on the man bun thing. I must've had longer hair whenever we were coming up with that or something.

We were trying to get you to get a haircut. Now actually, we did have someone who did get a haircut after listening to the intro a lot. They got rid of the man bun. That did happen.

But it was basically just like a way to try to address a lot of the topics that we knew we were going to end up addressing with the podcast in general in a really fast and somewhat tongue-in-cheek kind of way as well that would announce to everyone, here's what you're about to listen to basically.

And yeah, like I said at the beginning, it is meant to be a little bit of a filter for people. I mean, if you're the kind of person who listens to that and then you think it's funny, then it's not that the podcast still isn't going to be challenging for you because I think in a lot of ways it has been for a lot of people who find the intro funny, but then you're probably going to, and you're probably a lot closer to where we are theologically if you find it funny.

It's at least a sign that like, hey, you're able to laugh at things and you don't instantly take offense to everything you hear, even if you might disagree with it. And we found that typically the people who get really frustrated by it are the people who get offended very easily about pretty much anything and you kind of have to walk on eggshells around them all the time.

So it's not really, I don't know that it's really the intro it's more like the intro is just in a lot of ways trying to expose things and just make sure the sides are clear, I guess.

Genesis, Gender, and the Cultural Confusion of Our Time

Yeah, it's interesting because I mean at first glance it does seem like a random list of things and it's obviously presented in somewhat of an over to the top and humorous way or whatever, but I mean it does seem like a random collection of things, but then when you really think about the nature of the errors that are happening in our society right now, I mean most of the things that we're struggling with as a society are basically just right in the opening chapters of Genesis and a lot of those issues that we're talking about with that, they're just pointing to, like we don't know the difference between men and women anymore, right?

Like we can't even define like what is a woman and what is a man. Like there's a profound, I mean there really is a profound confusion that's happened in our society right now as it relates to like how human beings relate to animals, with all the pet parent kind of things and that kind of phenomenon.

I mean, that's not just a joke. I mean, that's real. Like that's, I mean, you do have a significant segment of the population who've rejected marriage and children and are trying to get all the relational needs met by pets.

I mean, you have the furry phenomenon. I mean, you have like, you have effeminacy, like so many men are right now influenced by effeminacy and then you have like the, like the utter rejection of like the female role within marriage too.

And so all these things are just, they really, I mean, I know that we're saying it somewhat in a tongue in cheek and a humorous way, but I mean, you think about that, that's all in the opening chapters of Genesis.

That's all Genesis one through three, man. You know, so like, who are we? Where do we come from? Where are we going? God created man, put him in a garden to work and to keep it, right? So he's given him something to do.

He's given him dominion over the animals. You know, God created Adam first. Adam names Eve, you know, so there's male-female relationships even within that. So in a lot of ways, I mean, these random collection of jokes, I mean, they do point to something that's pretty significant.

And you are living in a society right now that just doesn't know the basics about why we're here and what we're doing for sure. Yeah, and those are very basic.

Christian principles that no one would have argued with 10, 15 years ago. And now things are just so off the charts to your point. Men don't know what, you don't know what a woman is. What are you talking about?

You have a documentary that is wildly successful that I proudly watched and loved every second of it. That's called, What is a Woman? And people went to the experts and said, what is a woman? And they can't even tell you the definition of a woman.

Sounds like an SBC meeting, right? Where they're asking, what is a password? You did read my notes. You did. Oh, was that in there? We're just on the same wavelength.

Man, I ruined it for you.

That's okay. We'll revisit the SBC later. So you described the podcast as the Bible Bash podcast is a podcast focused on equipping the saints for the work of the ministry by answering questions that you're not allowed to ask.

And I want to hone in on that. We frequently discuss Golden Calf, quote unquote, Golden Calf topics and are often described as guys who, quote, go there. So, questions you're not allowed to ask, Golden Calf, I'm putting those together.

And I think you guys are pretty close to the same, you know, where I'm at, at least philosophically, theologically, with maybe some of the aumil or postmill understanding of what the idols of today are.

And your podcast pokes idols in the eye, which is why people don't, and mine do too, the guys in Ogden, you know, Moscow, you know, the same kind of flair. The reason that the men's men who are Christian are attracted to people like us is because that's what a man's job is to do, is to be a Gideon, is to stand up and destroy, to knock it down, to poke the idols in the eye and to burn it down.

And to cause change where you live. And we, I think that we are refreshing, we in the corporeal sense of guys who just aren't Sissy's man bun wearing skinny jean Subaru drivers. Yeah, Subaru. We understand.

Exactly. Portlanders, in other words. We understand what a man is, what a woman isn't, what a man's job isn't, what a woman's job isn't. We don't compromise on that issue. And when we piss people off because we actually say it and we actually need it.

So when I hear what you say by your, you're basically describing that you're just not a coward and that you're a Christian and voices of Christians are supposed to be cowards. According to most evangelical people.

How have you, how has that been for you?

Courage, Social Pressure, and the Cost of Public Conviction

Are you asking how many death threats we have? All of it.

We're, we're not quite in the double digits yet with all that, but we're, we're making our way. We're making our way slowly, but surely in the, in the death threat department, we have, we, we have had people come after our employment and, and even people who have been on our, on our show.

We've had people come after their jobs, even just for coming on and, and talking about certain issues. And so, so there is, you know, I mean, there is certainly that aspect to it. But, you know, I guess how has it gone?

I think it's been, I think it's been really interesting to see overall, just because I think, I think it kind of exposes a lot of, you know, I, I grew up, I grew up as sort of a nominal Christian, I would say, and, and a large mega church for as long as I went to church.

Basically, I wouldn't necessarily say I grew up in church, but for as you know, I went for probably 10 years as a nominal Christian and a large mega church. And, you know, one of the, one of the things I thought we had to do as Christians was we had to be this kind of like walking on eggshells all the time.

And apologizing for everything that the Bible teaches that offends people. And, and that, that's genuinely what I thought being a loving, you know, patient Christian was. But, you know, then I, you know, I, I, Tim, he introduced me to a lot of people who really kind of ripped that away, ripped that idea away from me.

And, and for me, I kind of got to a point where I was like, man, I, I realized, I wish we were just allowed to, you know, I watched guys like Doug Wilson and whatnot. And it's like, man, I wish we were just allowed to, you know, I wish we were just allowed to talk like this all the time.

And then it turns out, Oh, we are, you know? And, and then it got hard. It got harder and harder to bear with, you know, certain guys that, that you would see, like, especially around, you know, in the SBC is a good example of this, where you just see all these guys who kind of, they're either, they're either apologizing for everything that they believe or they're, they're constantly, you know, giving way on it because of social pressures.

I mean, you had the whole, like the SBC is pushing this, the world is watching thing. And, and you know, I'm sitting there as someone who's seen other guys, other guys that are just out there and there's, there's people screaming at them and throwing things at them for just saying simple truth.

And then you see guys like the SBC where it's like, Hey, the world is watching. We've got to be careful what we're doing. It's like, dude, who cares? I don't care. I don't care if the world, you know, I don't care.

I don't want to care what the world thinks. I'm sure there's times where I, you know, I, I still give into that, that temptation sometimes, but, but I, I, I found myself inspired by a lot of the guys that were just willing to go out there and just say it.

And, you know, not, you know, not be, not just be straight up jerks about it, obviously, but just saying normal, simple truth and letting everyone else embarrass themselves over how angry they are over and how much they hate God.

You know? And, and so I, you know, for, I was telling Tim, like, Hey, we, you know, you, I was, you know, talking with him one-on-one. He's my pastor. And so I'd ask him all these questions and along, you know, over a few years, I'm like, man, Tim, you've got to, you've got to put this out so other people can hear it too.

Like we've got to, we've got to talk about these things. And so for me, it's been a lot of fun because it's sort of like an outlet in some way, you know, part, part of my motivation for it at least is it, it is an outlet to just be able to communicate things that like, as I'm studying the Bible, you know, as I'm, as I'm leading my family, as I'm looking at what all is going on in the world around me, it's an outlet to be able to say, I'm just going to say normal things that are true.

And I don't want to apologize for them. That, you know, everyone else that I see that's, that's the, I see, you know, I seems as far as I can tell, you know, from a distance to be faithful Christians, they're doing the same thing.

That's what, that's what I want to do too. You know? And so that's kind of been my experience with it all. Maybe, maybe Tim can weigh in on it a little more. Oh, yeah. Oh, big time, big time.

You have some hate listeners, you know, we do. I'm trying to actively destroy you behind the scenes. So, I mean, that is going on.

They might not know that, that I know all of their goings on, but I, I do,.

You know, I would say that the response largely has been good on our end. Like, I mean, I'm a little bit surprised by how well the podcast has been doing, you know, since we started. So, I mean, that's a little bit, that is a little bit surprising to me.

I mean, I didn't know if he would be screaming into the void or something along those lines or calmly, you know, discussing things into the void with no one listening. But then it, it, it seems to, you know, it seems to have taken off a lot more than what I thought it would.

But then at the same time. Yeah. I mean, it certainly is a litmus test for where people were at in general. I mean, we, we do, we have had some pretty extreme kind of responses to some of the stuff we've asked at certain points and some of the episodes that we've done too, like meaning, like it's, it's kind of interesting because some of the things that really have triggered people and set people off have been things that we would just lease.

I mean, I didn't think that I would get you, you know, but then, but yeah, this, this really has been a situation where I've had family members disown me and we've had like bad reviews on our church, you know, things like that, like that people have given, you know, based on our podcast, a lot of the mental health stuff has really been triggering to people.

Like they really, really taken that pretty hard. But then at the same time, I think we have a lot of people who we have a lot of people who listen to us, but wouldn't admit it, you know, kind of thing.

I think our podcast is a little bit addictive to people. We found that like, if they will listen to the intro, it must be, it must be meant. I mean, if they listen to it once, they kind of like they'll keep on going with it.

So I've, we've heard that from a lot of people that they decided, yeah, we're just going to give this a try. And then they were hooked, you know, pretty, pretty quick with it. So that's been interesting to watch and we've had a lot of good feedback in a lot of ways.

And. So, yeah, I think it's been, it's been a good experience in a lot of ways. You know, some of the motivation we had to do it, and maybe this is part of. What you're talking about here, but some of the motivation that we had to even start doing the podcast was we, we just, we realized that we're, we're shortly after 2020 and all the madness that was associated with that.

And, you know, Harrison had been nagging me for a couple of years to do a podcast or something. And I had manfully resisted because I really, you know, I don't have any desire to be a public person or anything like that.

I don't have a desire to make a name for myself or anything like that. But he had said, Hey, we need to do this. We need to do this. But then when, when we're getting at 2020, I mean, I, I think it was just very apparent to both of us that we're living in a world where there really is this crisis of courage.

And so you're, you're living in a time where people are just so afraid to say normal things. You know, and I get this example a lot, but I remember I went in. Like this is during the mass mandate stuff.

I went into a store to get my phone fixed and you, You see the sign there that says no mask allowed or whatever. So I went in there anyways, without a mask on, because I was done with it. And I mean, we could do that.

We were in Alabama. So, I mean, I think we're not necessarily going to get thrown in jail. But so, I mean, yeah, it doesn't take us, but all I try to say is it doesn't take as much courage to do that in Alabama as maybe some other places, but I just kind of ignored that after a little bit and just went with it.

But then I went into the store and there was a guy, probably my dad's age. Who was sitting next to me with his mask on. He looked over at me and he sees that I don't have a mask on. And he got this like really frustrated, look on his face.

And he took his mask off, put it in his pocket, you know, just kind of sat there and did like that. Like with this smug, like self-satisfied grin on his face, you know? And I thought to myself, like, that's like, like courage is contagious.

And we're living in a time right now where you can't, you can't. Just. You can't call nonsense, nonsense anymore. Right. And so then. Like either, either we're going to end up in the gulags here. Right.

Or. Right behind your brother. Start acting sane. You know? So I think this podcast was our experiment to see like, well, if we're going to jail, man, let's just go first. You know, we'll be the first ones here.

Yeah. But I think it's, I think we're at a. Strange point in our nation where you need a lot more people who are saying same things. You know, either the people are going to say the same things and, you know, we're going to see positive direction or it can go really bad.

And I think, I think, you know, for. I know that we're going to talk about this later, but I think part of the Trump phenomenon is instructive at that point to, to where I. You know, obviously he was a polarizing figure and he has good, good and bad.

There's good and there's bad, but I mean, I do think that you need people who. Are willing to wake up and quit call a spade a spade, quit acting like as if it's some kind of crime or unloving to say normal things.

And so part of that was what we were trying to get at with our podcast for sure. And yeah, I mean, certainly we've seen people who are just insanely mad at us. Trying to. Docs us destroy our lives, you know, get us fired.

And then we we've had a lot of good responses too. So it's been a mixed bag there for sure. I live in.

I live in Oregon. And so Oregon, California, Washington, New York, Jersey. Oh, and Washington, DC are probably the biggest Nazis when I, when it came to 2020. They were probably the biggest. Like they came after my job.

They, they. Yeah. I will. I, I try really, really hard to keep my professional life separate from, from all of this, because I promise you the second that I slip up, I will get fired because I live in Oregon and the, the people who live in Oregon have a significant.

Difference of opinion than I do on pretty much everything there. There are man buns everywhere, super news and skinny jeans everywhere.

Everybody has them and fur babies everywhere.

So when, when I was walking through a safe way, actually safe, we didn't do too bad. It took him a very long time to start like waving their finger at me. But the second that I walked in into anything like Walmart, Fred Myers, you know, anything that's a big, bigger, typical, more liberal kind of, kind of thing.

The second that I walked in, it was, it was finger in the face and I just didn't stop. I just walked through. I like, you're going to call the cops, call the cops, man. This is what I'm going to do. Uh, and I never got thrown out one time and I even wore like Trump shirts and like, uh, some pretty vulgar things that Christians probably ought not to wear, but I don't, I didn't care.

You know, we're in the middle of this pandemic and I was pissed and I still am upset. I still believe that we need some accountability. You got to forgive,.

Man, forgive and forget. Like we were all crazy during that time. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I hear. That's what I hear. I mean, who doesn't try to get people fired and you know, uh, yeah, kill them.

Yeah. Yeah. Like literally, literally.

Yeah. Yeah. I could happen to anyone. It happened to anyone man. About, about all that. But to your point earlier, I was walking through a, a Walmart without a mask and it had a, I forget what it was.

It was like a, it was a pretty vulgar shirt about Hillary and, and Trump. Uh, and I walked through and there was this like back to back to back, these just so sad looking faces of like, uh, just men, just men walking to the grocery store, trying to get food or, or tools or something.

Uh, and they were just sad looking and they turned the corner and I, and I was starting down a new aisle and every one of them did the same thing that you did, Tim. They, they, they, uh, they looked at my shirt and they looked at me with a big fat, ugly smile on my face without a mask on.

And they went, Oh, Oh, I just kept walking. They just ripped that mask off and they just kept walking. And that proves to me, even then this, this godless state that I live in, in this ridiculous craziness of the sham Demick during the COVID freak out.

You still have courage. You just have to, you have to spark it. You just have to do something like you have to be the guy, the Gideon. You have to be the guy who sparks that little bit of courage for people to, to, to, to run off of, you know, you gotta be the catalyst and the things in your life that, that I mean, I almost got fired because I refused that garbage vaccine, the jab, the serum that they want to shove in your arm.

And they weren't going to do any, they weren't going to do any exemptions or accommodations or whatever. They try to wiggle around with I was going to get fired. And, and it was a matter of time before enough people with courage started in the, in the said, no, I'm not gonna do it.

Fire me. No, I'm not gonna do it. Fire me. And it was this, this domino effect of, of people eventually got the governor's attention. Then the secretary of state decided, you know, there actually is an ORS that says, well, yeah, we've got five lawsuits that say that.

So the importance of what you're doing, the importance of what the guys in Moscow and in Ogden and like Gabe wrench to me in the middle of that shandemic was a hero, man. He really was. He didn't locked up because he wouldn't wear a mask outside, outside of the police department.

You're locking this guy up. Doug Wilson is constantly berated because he just literally says what the Bible says. And, and they just vehemently attack him because he's not apologetic. He has no, what is it?

No, no quarter of November. You said that, that Tim, no quarter of November that I'm not going to apologize. And I'm not going to give you any, any wiggle room away from it. This is what it says. This is what the Bible teaches.