Jesus in the Bible and the Qur'an Part 1

Well, good evening. It is good to have you all here this evening. How many of you were here about five months ago when Imam Shamsi Ali and I had a discussion? Okay, excellent. Thank you very much for being here.

I'm honored to be invited back. And of course, thank the Imam for being here this evening as well. Thank you very much for taking the time to enter into this discussion with us this evening. Jesus in the Bible and in the Quran.

Jesus as the Bridge Between Christianity and Islam

Obviously, Jesus is the primary connection between Christianity and Islam. Both faiths believe Jesus was one of the most important people in all of human history. Yet, the two faiths differ completely on who Jesus was and what he accomplished.

And I believe, friends, that the greatest way that we can show respect and love for one another is to be honest and open when we disagree with one another. I do not accept the modernistic idea that we paper over our differences with one another.

The way to show respect for someone is to honestly air those differences and to discuss them in an attitude of mutual respect. And so I hope that's what is accomplished here this evening. Muslims believe that the prophets and Jesus were all Muslims.

And they believe this on the basis of the Quranic teaching. But the earliest documentable sources to present the Muslim view of Jesus are half a millennium removed from the original events themselves.

Old Testament Prophecies of the Coming One

The earliest sources that we can examine are prophetic in nature. That is, the Jewish scriptures, the Tanakh, the Old Testament, speak of one who would come. When we combine the testimony of all of the prophecies in the Old Testament, we see that this one would be, first, a Jewish prophet who would speak the words of Yahweh, as we see in Deuteronomy 18, 18.

That he would be called the Son and would be a ruler, as we see in the second Psalm. That he would suffer before his final exaltation, as that tremendous text in Isaiah 53 reveals to us. And finally, number four, that he would be more than a mere man.

In Isaiah chapter 9, verse 6, we have these words. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us. And the government will rest on his shoulders, and his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, El Gabor, in the Hebrew language, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Paul's Earliest Christ Confessions

Now, when we come to the New Testament, many people think that the earliest books are the Gospels. Because of where they're found in the order of the New Testament writings. But that is incorrect. Paul's epistles, in all probability, predate the earliest of the Gospels.

What do these writings, closest in time to Jesus' ministry, tell us about Jesus Christ? Well, we have one of the earliest creedal statements of the Christian faith, in 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verses 3 through 6.

Many people, even liberal scholars, believe that these words come from within just a few years of the actual crucifixion of Jesus. There we read, For I delivered to you, as of first importance, what I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

So this earliest confession of the Christian people, what is it focused upon? The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the New Testament presentation. Likewise, when Paul wrote to the churches of Galatia, he said, But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, remember the Old Testament text, Son, born of a woman, born under the law, so that he might redeem those who are under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

What do we see from these words? Jesus was truly a man, he was born of a woman, probably a reference to the virgin birth there, and that he came to redeem. He is a Redeemer and a Savior. Likewise, we have another important text in 1 Corinthians chapter 8.

This section really takes the ancient Shema, the confession of the Jewish people, Shema Yisrael, Yahweh Elohim, Yahweh Echad, here Israel, Jehovah or Yahweh is one, Jehovah is our God, and it distributes the Shema between the Father and the Son.

Notice what it says,. Therefore, considering the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us, for the followers of Jesus, there is but one God, Hais the As, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him.

And one Lord, Hais Kurios, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Now it's very important that the early believers remain monotheistic Jews, but they are attempting to express what it means to recognize this One who has come, this One who is fulfilling these Old Testament prophecies.

And here you see that this Lord, the very same term that's used of Yahweh in the Old Testament, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, this One Lord is Jesus, and it is by Him are all things, and we exist through Him.

Those are not the words you use of a mere man. In Philippians chapter 2, verses 5 through 11, we have what many scholars believe is one of the early hymns of the Christian faith. Christians have always been singers.

And this is probably one of the early stanzas of one of the earliest hymns of the Christian faith. Listen to these words. You must have the same mindset among yourselves that was in Christ Jesus, who, and this is where the music begins, in essence, who, although He eternally existed in the very form of God, did not consider that equality He had with God the Father something to be held on to at all costs.

But instead, He made Himself nothing by taking on the very form of a slave and being made a human likeness. And having entered into human existence, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even the death one dies on a cross.

Because of this, God the Father exalted Him to the highest place and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that the mention of the exalted name of Jesus, everyone who is in heaven, on earth and under the earth, bows the knee and every tongue confesses, Jesus Christ is Lord, kurios, all to the glory of God the Father.

This is what the early Christians sang, because this is what the early Christians believed about Jesus. When the Apostle Paul wrote to the church at Colossae, he described Jesus and he said, He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Firstborn does not mean first created. The Greek term prototikos means one having a preeminence. For by Him, that is by Jesus, all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions, or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things consist or hold together. Now, if you're a monotheistic Jew like Paul, raised at the feet of Gamaliel, and you describe someone in these words, who are you describing?

Remember, you only believe that there's one true God, the creator of all things, and here he said that Jesus is the one not only who has created all things, but for whom all things are created. And again, this is the earliest evidence that we have from the time of Jesus Himself.

The result being when Paul wrote to his colleague Titus, in Titus chapter 2, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. God and Savior, both being used of the one person, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

So you note what we have here, not only the deity of Christ, but this is tied together with His saving actions as well. Hence, the earliest documents teach that Jesus was truly a man sent by the Father, who had eternally existed with the Father, was the creator of all things, our Lord and our God, who gave Himself voluntarily on the cross to redeem God's people.

Jesus in the Gospels and the Claims of Mark, Matthew, and Luke

So when we move to the Gospels, we find the same truths illustrated in ways appropriate to the audiences of each of the Gospels themselves. Each of the Gospels adapts the history of Jesus to a different audience.

Mark is writing to a different audience, for example, than Matthew is, and that's one of the reasons that there are differences between them in the language they use, the stories they tell, et cetera, et cetera.

Consider the Gospel of Mark, for example. Jesus is plainly presented as the Messiah, a prophet, a man who lived a particular time, in a particular place. He is located in history, in specific locations, in Galilee, in Jerusalem.

All the Gospels insist Jesus ministered in history, in actuality, and this is very important. The point is that Jesus is not a myth that someone made up. He was someone who lived in history. You can identify where he taught certain things.

You can identify where the temple was, and things like that. Mark presents Jesus predicting his own death on the cross at the hands of the Jews, as well as his resurrection from the dead. The cross is central to Mark's message, just as it was to Paul's message.

But likewise in Mark, Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do in Mark chapter two. He says, there is none good but God alone, speaking self-referentially in Mark chapter 10. He wasn't saying, I'm not good.

He was trying to get the young man to know who he himself was. He identifies himself as the Son of Man, a divine figure from the book of Daniel, in Mark chapter 14. And so clear was that identification, the Jews tore their clothes and said, you've heard the blasphemy.

Why do we need any more witnesses? They understood exactly what Jesus was saying about himself. The other synoptic gospels, Matthew and Luke, likewise present Jesus as a historical figure, Messiah, prophet, Son of Man, Son of God, sacrifice for sins.

Matthew records one of the many places where the Bible and the Quran directly contradict one another, and we need to look at this and honestly recognize this, and talk about this openly together, if we truly respect one another and have a high view of truth.

We have to look at this. For example, in Surah 5, verse 16, the Quran has Jesus say, quote, you know what is in my heart, though I do not know what is in yours. That's in reference to Allah. But over 500 years earlier, the gospel of Matthew had quoted Jesus saying these words, all things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Jesus is the one through whom we gain knowledge of God the Father. He has a perfect knowledge of the Father. That was written at least 500 years prior to the surah, the citation that we gave. Now there is no question that the fourth gospel, the gospel of John, plainly teaches that Jesus was a man just as the synoptic gospels do, and that he died on the cross, but even the most liberal critics recognize that this gospel plainly teaches the full deity of Christ, identifying him as the Word who was made flesh.

And we should keep in mind that the earliest documented book of the New Testament, in other words, the earliest manuscripts of any New Testament book we have, are of what book? The gospel of John. And it is that gospel that presents a picture of Jesus most unlike what we find in the Quran written over 500 years later.

Yet John clearly comes, the gospel of John clearly comes from Palestine in the first century and was honored as scripture by all early Christians. The book begins with the affirmation that Jesus eternally existed as God and became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.

Notice these words. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him and apart from him. Nothing came into being that has come into being.

In him was life, and the life was the light of men. Then in the 14th verse of that first chapter we have these words. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, glories of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

And there in the graphic you see the earliest record we have of these words from manuscript P75 written about A .D. 175. I put that up there because it is so important to recognize this is not something where someone came along later and altered things or changed things.

This is what the Gospel of John has always said. The same book closes with Thomas' confession. In John 20, 28, Thomas answered and said to him, answered and said to him, to Jesus, my Lord and my God. Jesus' response was not to rebuke him, which if he was a mere prophet he would have to.

His response was to recognize that his was a statement of faith. And he commended that faith and said, blessed are those who did not see, and yet have believed as well. Though this Gospel then, John, speaks plainly of Jesus' voluntary self-sacrifice.

This is so important to understand. Jesus' life is not taken from him. He gives it of his own accord. Remember the carnal Christie? He voluntarily made himself of no reputation. Same thing here. For this reason the Father loves me because I lay down my life so that I may take it again.

No one has taken it away from me, but I lay it down on my own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I receive from my Father. These are the words of Jesus.

John's Gospel likewise identifies Jesus as the great I Am, the giver of life. Jesus says in John 14, 6, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me. Now please notice, he did not say, I am the way for Jewish people, and there will be someone else for other people, and there will be other prophets.

No, he says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me. Not by my teachings, but by me. These are personal words. I emphasize that because I was just listening to a well-known Islamic speaker by the name of Zakir Naik, and he was explaining this text by saying, well, every prophet says this.

When Moses was a prophet, he was the way, the truth, and the life. And you only come to God by his teachings. But that's not something Moses ever said or ever could have said. And Jesus' words are personal.

He doesn't say, no one comes to the Father except by my teachings. He says, no one comes to the Father except by me. The rest of the New Testament verifies these truths. The book of the Acts of the Apostles records the earliest sermons of the followers of Jesus, and they confirm these same claims, that Jesus was born, gave his life as a sacrifice for sins, and was the eternal Son of God.

One of the earliest sermons that we have recorded in all of scripture is found in Acts chapter 2. Why would I put a picture of myself up there? Well, this was just a few months ago at Macquarie University in Australia, where I was examining manuscript P91, which is one of the earliest manuscripts of the Acts of the Apostles, and it contains the very same section from that very same sermon, where we read such things as, this Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses, as well as, therefore, that all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.

And so here we have, from the early 3rd century here, this manuscript, again proving to us that this was the teaching of the Christians from the very beginning, and we can provide documented evidence thereof.

And so, in summary, that Jesus the Bible eternally existed as the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son. He was born of the Virgin Mary, was a prophet, lived at a particular time, performed miracles, proclaimed the kingdom of God, identified himself as the Son of God, the source of eternal life.

He gave his life voluntarily, as a sacrifice for sins, and was buried, and rose again. So, in the few minutes we have left, just a few comments, then, on Jesus in the Quran. Obviously, I leave to my esteemed partner this evening the primary presentation of this, but what are the issues, what are the differences that we need to look at?

Jesus in the Qur'an: Surah 19, the Cradle Speech, and Later Sources

The Quran's name for Jesus, Isa, appears in 25 Ayat in the Quran, but only once in all the Quran does Jesus speak from an identifiable location, that being his cradle, in Surah 19, verse 30. That section you read, beginning at Ayah 27.

At length she brought the babe to her people, carrying him in her arms. They said, O Mary, truly an amazing thing hast thou brought. O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste.

But she pointed the babe. They said, how can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle? He said, that is, the child in the cradle, I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.

And he hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, and the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life again.

Such was Jesus, son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah, now listen to this, it is not befitting to the majesty of Allah that he should beget a son.

Glory be to him when he determines a matter. He always says to it, be, and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. Him therefore serve thee. This is a way that is straight. But the sects differ among themselves and woe to the unbelievers because of the coming judgment of a momentous day.

Now I'm sure we'll be discussing a lot about this, but one of the things that I would point out is that the story of Jesus speaking from the cradle does not come from any time near Jesus. It comes from the 5th century, 5th or 6th century Arabic infancy gospel.

And here is the actual quote that is found. We have found it recorded in the book of Josephus, the chief priest who was in the time of Christ, and men say that he was Caiaphas, that this man said that Jesus spake when he was in the cradle and said to Mary his mother, and notice the difference here.

Verily I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Word which thou hast borne, according as the angel Gabriel gave the good news. And my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world. Now this does not come from Palestine, does not come from a source that we could trust that it had anything to do with the original Jesus.

But it is interesting that we find this in the Arabic infancy gospel and that we find a similar story in the Quran. Beyond this one incident, Jesus is never located in history in the Quran. He speaks as a disembodied voice, primarily as an argument, either for the prophethood of Muhammad or against the Christians in Muhammad's day.

This Jesus, who is more of an argument than a person, is strikingly different than the Jesus of the Bible. And if you have never read both books, you might not recognize that. If you have only read the Quran, then reading the New Testament would be difficult.

If you read only the New Testament, read the Quran, you find these striking differences. To the Christian reader, the Jesus of the Quran only bears surface similarities to the Jesus of the Gospels. He is a monotheistic prophet in both, yes.

He is born of a virgin and he works miracles. But the essence of Jesus' teaching and ministry seems totally unfamiliar to the author of the Quran. Could this be due to the fact that Muhammad, most Muslims will tell you, was illiterate and he would not have had access to the New Testament or the Old Testament in his own language?

Because the earliest manuscripts we have of either the Old Testament or the New Testament come from the end of the 9th century, long after Muhammad died. And so he didn't have access to the original languages or in his own language, even if he could have read, he would not have had access to these particular things.

And it is interesting the mention of working with miracles. Notice here in Surah 349,. And appoint him an apostle to the children of Israel with this message, I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I make for you out of clay as it were the figure of a bird and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by Allah's name.

This idea of Jesus making clay birds come alive comes from the 2nd century Gnostic Gospels, which again is not a part of the historical evidence concerning Jesus, but comes from a very different worldview.

And I don't think anyone here, Muslim or Christian alike, would embrace any of the Gnostic worldview because it's not monotheistic. God is not the creator of all things. The Gnostics are far removed from all of us as far as the worldview goes.

And of course, one of the primary differences between us, which hopefully we'll be able to get to, Surah 4, verse 157, That they said in boast, We killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them.

And those who differ therein are full of doubt, with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto himself, and was exalted in power and wise.

Now this one text has resulted in all sorts of different interpretations as to what is actually being said here. What does this mean? Was someone substituted for Jesus? And so on and so forth. Maybe we'll get into that this evening.

It is an important text to discuss. But I want to get to two other texts very quickly. Surah 572 helps us to see how important this subject is. They do blaspheme who say Allah is Christ, the son of Mary.

But said Christ, O children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods of Allah, Allah will forbid him to garden, and the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help him.

They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a trinity. For there is no god except one, Allah. If they desist not from the word blasphemy, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

Very clearly, the author of the Quran believes that the trinity violates monotheism. That he is saying that Allah is one god amongst three, and yet... What finally really concerns me is Surah 516. And behold, Allah will say, O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say unto men, Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah?

It sounds like this text is saying that the doctrine of the trinity is Allah, Mary, and Jesus. That Allah takes a wife and has a son named Jesus. And I've met many Muslims who believe that's what we believe.

That, of course, has never been what Christians have ever believed about the doctrine of the trinity. Even Ibn Kathir, one of the great early commentators in his Tafsir says,. This ayah shows the crime of the Christians who invented a lie against the law and his messenger, thus making a rival wife and son for Allah.

Allah is glorified in that he is far above what they attribute to him. So, in conclusion, from the Christian perspective, the Bible presents an accurate view of Jesus from the very people who knew him and were charged to proclaim his message.

Chronic denials of the central teachings of the Bible show no first-hand familiarity with the text of the Bible itself. The Islamic position requires us to believe in a massive conspiracy wherein the enemies of the real followers of Jesus were victorious, corrupting and destroying the original Injil, and somehow keeping the original true followers of Jesus from proclaiming their message.

So hopefully this brief rundown will help us to lay a foundation for our discussion this evening as we look at Jesus in the Bible and the Quran.

That's the Arabic expression for greeting primarily the people of the Islamic faith.

Turn it down a little bit. It's feeding back. It's too hot.

Okay, I'm going to just take the liberty of... ...of thesis in the Bible and the Quran. I very willingly agreed to make myself available. And the reason that I agreed was very simple. A scholar either of the Bible... ...but I have studied it.

And I, in a way, that's not... ...give you an example... ...felt that when I... ...that's there... ...and I started... ...too much... ...so at one point, during those... ...simple... ...the basic message... ...y 'all don't... ...that is... ...accept... ...together... ...of creation... ...and sustenance... ...and then this whole creation... ...has... ...that... ...accepted... ...is there...

...huge... ...he has blessed wherever... ...and he has enjoined upon... ...upon me prayer... That's where we're getting feedback. I'm going to move back a step... ...and I think we might be able to cut out some of the feedback.

Thank you. Testament. The means by which Jesus was born... ...is taking us Christians as an evidence of his deity. That's not an argument the New Testament actually makes. It is never said that because he was virgin born... ...that means he is God... ...could cause anyone to be virgin born... ...if he so chose to do so.

There is a reason why Jesus was virgin born... ...why he had to be virgin born... ...but that is not one of the evidences... ...of the deity of Christ... ...as far as the New Testament is concerned. So if there is a concern... ...on that part... ...in the Quran... ...then the question would be... ...where did that concern come from?

In the same way the miracles... ...yes, we would agree that Jesus... ...viewed them as signs... ...and there is a similarity between... ...in that, especially in the Gospel of John... ...it is presented... ...those are signs that are presented... ...that demonstrate the hardness of heart... ...of many of those people... ...who saw what Jesus did.

Think about when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Here they see a man alive... ...who had been dead for four days... ...and what's the response of their heart? We need to find a way to kill this man... ...because they were so concerned... ...about their own personal ambitions.

But again, it's not the miracles... ...that demonstrate that Jesus is God either. It is the direct statement... ...of the text of Scripture. In Surah chapter 5... ...I believe it's on my desk... ...verse 47... ...we read... ...let the people of the Gospel judge... ...by what God hath revealed therein... ...if any do fail to judge... ...by the light of what God hath revealed... ...they are no better than those... ...I see this... ...I've studied this section fairly carefully... ...it is meant to be an apologetic argument... ...for the prophethood of Muhammad... ...but we are told... ...the people of the Gospel... ...the Awal Injil... ...are to judge... ...by what Allah hath revealed therein... ...the only therein is the Gospel... ...and so the question becomes... ...are we not then being told... ...by the Quran... ...to judge Muhammad's message... ...by what God hath revealed in the Injil?

Well that would be a meaningless statement... ...if the people of Muhammad's day... ...did not have the Injil by which to judge... ...we know exactly... ...what the New Testament looked like... ...exactly what the Gospel message was... ...at the beginning of the 7th century in Arabia... ...we have manuscripts... ...complete manuscripts of the New Testament... ...that long predate this period of time... ...and so I believe I am showing honour... ...to the Quran... ...when it challenges me... ...as one of the people of the Gospel... ...the Awal Injil... ...to judge by what God hath revealed therein... ...the Quran is saying... ...God revealed the Injil... ...and I know what modern Muslims believe at this point... ...I know that modern Muslims believe... ...that the Injil has been corrupted... ...the question is... ...on what basis... ...is that to be accepted... ...and that's what we need to be thinking about... ...this evening because... ...just before that... ...in the 4th Surah... ...in Ayah 171... ...the Awal Kitab... ...the People of the Book are addressed... ...O People of the Book... ...commit no excesses... ...in your religion... ...nor say of God... ...aught but the truth... ...that Christ Jesus... ...the Son of Mary... ...was no more than... ...a Rasul of Allah... ...an Apostle of Allah... ...and His Word... ...which He bestowed on Mary... ...and the Spirit proceeding from Him... ...so believe in God... ...and His Apostles... ...say not Trinity... ...desist... ...it will be better for you... ...for God is one God... ...glory be to Him... ...for our exalt is He... ...above having a Son... ...now... ...in Surah 19... ...which we just had explained to us... ...and here in Surah 4... ...both times... ...you have the same thing stated... ...we saw the same thing in Surah 5, verse 16... ...God is exalted... ...above having a Son... ...and in... ...Surah Al-Aklas... ...the 112th Surah... ...the third eye says... ...He began as not more... ...as He began... ...this is a fundamental aspect... ...of the assertion... ...of the Quran... ...but here is a question... ...I believe... ...we all have to consider together... ...seriously... ...if we say... ...that we are people of truth... ...and I would say to you... ...if you come out on a Saturday night... ...to this place... ...to hear this discussion... ...you are not a person... ...who is... ...unconcerned about truth... ...if we are concerned about truth... ...here is the question... ...does the Quran... ...present an accurate understanding... ...of the positions... ...it is denying... ...there is no question... ...it is denying a position... ...hellfire... ...curses... ...excesses... ...the fire will be your abode... ...blasphemy... ...and those are... ...those are harsh words... ...and they are right there... ...in the text of the Quran... ...so if you are going to use... ...words like that... ...then the question is... ...are you accurately... ...describing what someone... ...believes... ...now we saw it... ...served by 116... ...uh... ...Ibn Kathir understood it... ...to be talking about... ...what Christians believe... ...but Christians have never... ...believed... ...that God married Mary... ...and had a child... ...and yet... ...each one of these texts... ...seems to be talking about... ...exactly that... ...talking about... ...this idea of God... ...beginning a son... ...if you have never... ...understood this... ...and this was well understood... ...long before the time... ...of the regular Quran... ...the relationship between... ...father and son... ...that God had... ...is an eternal one... ...it never started... ...it has always... ...been that way... ...the father has always... ...been the father... ...the son has always... ...been the son... ...there was never a time... ...when the son... ...came into being... ...that was one of the great... ...arguments of the... ...uh... ...of the 4th century... ...was the movement called... ...Aryanism... ...to try to turn Jesus... ...into a lesser God... ...almost a... ...a demigod... ...but Christians have... ...never believed... ...that God married Mary... ...and had a child... ...and yet most Muslims... ...I've talked to think... ...that that's what... ...Ibn Kathir certainly... ...thought that that was... ...the case... ...well that's an excess... ...religion... ...we need to know it... ...but I just think... ...in the text of the Bible... ...in just the few minutes... ...that I have left... ...to an encounter... ...recorded for us... ...again... ...in the earliest... ...documented... ...it's not the first one... ...written... ...but... ...in the 8th chapter... ...of the Gospel of John... ...Jesus was speaking... ...to certain Jewish people... ...some of them... ...were going to end up... ...believing in... ...picking up stones... ...to stone him... ...because Jesus... ...sort of bore... ...one of their favorite... ...things... ...and said... ...if you continue... ...to follow me... ...you will be... ...you'll know the truth... ...the truth shall make you free... ...they didn't like that idea... ...of having to be set free... ...but before I get into that... ...Jesus said... ...these words... ...to the Jews... ...in John 8 24... ...I told you... ...that you will die... ...in your sins... ...for unless... ...you believe... ...that I... ...and go on... ...carefully trace it back... ...you discover... ...that it's used... ...as the name of God... ...in the book of Isaiah... ...and the minor prophets... ...it's the... ...Hebrew phrase... ...anahu... ...in fact... ...in John 13 19... ...Jesus quotes... ...from Isaiah 43 10... ...where Jehovah says... ...before me... ...there is no God... ...for me... ...there shall be none... ...after me... ...and he quotes... ...from that text... ...and applies it to... ...himself... ...remember in John chapter 18... ...when the soldiers... ...came to arrest Jesus... ...remember what happened... ...Jesus said... ...who are you seeking... ...and Jesus' response... ...their response was... ...Jesus asked them... ...and his response was... ...and go by me... ...I am... ...and what happened... ...the soldiers fell... ...down... ...upon... ...why would that happen... ...they fell back... ...they didn't fall down... ...on their knees... ...and worship... ...they fell backwards... ...at Jesus' statement... ...and go by me... ...I am... ...and in John chapter 8... ...this very same chapter... ...at the end... ...Jesus is saying... ...before Abraham was... ...and go by me... ...I am... ...and the Jews... ...will pick up stones... ...to stone him... ...because they well know... ...exactly what he's proclaiming... ...for himself... ...they all recognized... ...that Jesus... ...is using words... ...and they all... ...mere prophet... ...of Jesus said... ...verse 24... ...I told you... ...that you will die... ...in your sins... ...for unless... ...you believe... ...he tells me to judge... ...by what's found in the... ...Egypt... ...and... ...there is no question... ...in my mind whatsoever... ...and I've defended this... ...against... ...some of the leading skeptics... ...of the New Testament... ...men like Bart Ehrman... ...and John Dominic Crosson... ...of the Jesus Seminar... ...that these... ...are the words... ...that John... ...originally wrote.

He wrote these words, Jesus said, unless you believe that the only separation is from God. And so what did Jesus mean when he said those Jews? Men who were standing away from me, those are heavy. And someone came along and claimed to be a prophet and yet stand in line with Mohammed and decided to start denying everything that Mohammed taught.

Would you just accept him right off the bat? Well that must be true. No, you would test him. You would see if he's consistent with what Mohammed himself taught, right? What's found in the Quran. Well, here's a situation where someone has come along, 600 years after Jesus spoke these words.

We have no evidence that he ever read these words. That he ever heard these words directly himself. And he says, you're committing an excess. And if you continue to believe in that excess, then fire will be removed.

Is there a basis? You would have to. It was somehow corrupted when it was originally written. That somehow the original followers of Jesus did not stay faithful to him and defend the truth about who he really was.

I suggest to you there's no reason to believe that. They were willing to die for their faith. And so you have the earliest documentable sources saying Jesus taught this. And then we have the Quran coming 750 some odd miles later in a different language without knowledge of the Old and New Testament by direct citation therefrom.

Saying, no, those things that you know, overthrowing the Gospels on the basis of something that comes 600 years later. That is what we have. Thank you very much for your time.

The Final Question About Access to God

Make the basic question. This. And before Jesus was there, who can connect with God and those who. Is basically the question that is going to be uppermost in the life of all of us. And it has been uppermost throughout human history.