Jesus in the Bible and the Qur'an Part 1

Well, good evening. It is good to have you all here this evening. How many of you were here about five months ago when

Imam Shamsi Ali and I had a discussion? Okay, excellent. Thank you very much for being here. I'm honored to be invited back, and of course, thank the

Imam for being here this evening as well. Thank you very much for taking the time to enter into this discussion with us this evening.

Jesus in the Bible and in the Quran. Obviously, Jesus is the primary connection between Christianity and Islam.

Both faiths believe Jesus was one of the most important people in all of human history.

Yet, the two faiths differ completely on who Jesus was and what he accomplished.

And I believe, friends, that the greatest way that we can show respect and love for one another is to be honest and open when we disagree with one another.

I do not accept the modernistic idea that we paper over our differences with one another.

The way to show respect for someone is to honestly air those differences and to discuss them in an attitude of mutual respect.

So I hope that's what is accomplished here this evening. Muslims believe that the prophets and Jesus were all

Muslims, and they believe this on the basis of the Quranic teaching. But the earliest documentable sources to present the

Muslim view of Jesus are half a millennium removed from the original events themselves.

The earliest sources that we can examine are prophetic in nature. That is, the

Jewish scriptures, the Tanakh, the Old Testament, speak of one who would come.

When we combine the testimony of all of the prophecies in the Old Testament, we see that this one would be, first, a

Jewish prophet who would speak the words of Yahweh, as we see in Deuteronomy 18 .18.

That he would be called the Son and would be a ruler, as we see in the second Psalm. That he would suffer before his final exaltation, as that tremendous text in Isaiah 53 reveals to us.

And finally, number four, that he would be more than a mere man. In Isaiah chapter 9, verse 6, we have these words.

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us, and the government will rest on his shoulders, and his name will be called

Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, El Gabor, in the Hebrew language, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Now, when we come to the New Testament, many people think that the earliest books are the

Gospels, because of where they're found in the order of New Testament writings, but that is incorrect.

Paul's epistles, in all probability, predate the earliest of the Gospels. What do these writings, closest in time to Jesus' ministry, tell us about Jesus Christ?

Well, we have one of the earliest creedal statements of the Christian faith, in 1

Corinthians chapter 15, verses 3 through 6. Many people, even liberal scholars, believe that these words come from within just a few years of the actual crucifixion of Jesus.

There we read, For I delivered to you, as of first importance, what I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the

Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the

Twelve. So this earliest confession of the Christian people, what is it focused upon?

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the New Testament presentation.

Likewise, when Paul wrote to the churches of Galatia, he said, But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his

Son, remember the Old Testament text, Son, born of a woman, born under the law, so that he might redeem those who are under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

What do we see from these words? Jesus was truly a man, he was born of a woman, probably a reference to the virgin birth there, and that he came to redeem.

He is a redeemer and a savior. Likewise, we have another important text in 1

Corinthians chapter 8. This section really takes the ancient Shema, the confession of the

Jewish people, Shema Yisrael, Yahweh Yisrael, Jehovah or Yahweh is one,

Jehovah is our God, and it distributes the Shema between the Father and the

Son. Notice what it says. Therefore, concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no

God but one. For even if there are so -called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us, for the followers of Jesus, there is but one

God, Ha 'is the As, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for him.

And one Lord, Ha 'is Kurios, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through him.

Now it's very important that the early believers remain monotheistic Jews, but they are attempting to express what it means to recognize this one who has come, this one who is fulfilling these

Old Testament prophecies. And here you see that this Lord, the very same term that's used of Yahweh in the

Old Testament, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, this one Lord is Jesus, and it is by him are all things, and we exist through him.

Those are not the words you use of a mere man. In Philippians chapter 2, verses 5 through 11, we have what many scholars believe is one of the early hymns of the

Christian faith. Christians have always been singers, and this is probably one of the early stanzas of one of the earliest hymns of the

Christian faith. Listen to these words. You must have the same mindset among yourselves that was in Christ Jesus, who, and this is where the music begins, in essence, who, although he eternally existed in the very form of God, did not consider that equality he had with God the

Father something to be held on to at all costs. But instead he made himself nothing by taking on the very form of a slave and being made in human likeness.

And having entered into human existence, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even the death one dies on a cross.

Because of this, God the Father exalted him to the highest place and bestowed on him the name which is above every name.

So at the mention of the exalted name of Jesus, everyone who is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth bows the knee and every tongue confesses,

Jesus Christ is Lord, kurios, all to the glory of God the

Father. This is what the early Christians sang, because this is what the early Christians believed about Jesus.

When the apostle Paul wrote to the church at Colossae, he described Jesus and he said, he is the image of the invisible

God, the firstborn of all creation. Firstborn does not mean first created, the Greek term prototikos means the one having preeminence.

For by him, that is by Jesus, all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him, he is before all things, and in him all things consist or hold together.

Now if you are a monotheistic Jew like Paul, raised at the feet of Gamaliel, and you describe someone in these words, who are you describing?

Remember you only believe that there is one true God, the creator of all things, and here he said that Jesus is the one not only who has created all things, but for whom all things are created.

And again, this is the earliest evidence that we have from the time of Jesus himself. The result being when

Paul wrote to his colleague Titus in Titus chapter 2, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great

God and Savior, Jesus Christ. God and Savior, both being used of the one person,

Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed and to purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good deeds.

So you note what we have here, not only the deity of Christ, but this is tied together with his saving actions as well.

Hence the earliest documents teach that Jesus was truly a man sent by the Father, who had eternally existed with the

Father, was the creator of all things, our Lord and our God, who gave himself voluntarily on the cross to redeem

God's people. So when we move to the Gospels, we find the same truths illustrated in ways appropriate to the audiences of each of the

Gospels themselves. Each of the Gospels adapts the history of Jesus to a different audience. Mark is writing to a different audience, for example, than Matthew is, and that's one of the reasons that there are differences between them in the language they use, the stories that they tell, etc.,

etc. Consider the Gospel of Mark, for example. Jesus is plainly presented as the

Messiah, a prophet, a man who lived a particular time and a particular place.

He is located in history, in specific locations, in Galilee, in Jerusalem. All the

Gospels insist Jesus ministered in history, in actuality, and this is very important. The point is that Jesus is not a myth that someone made up.

He was someone who lived in history. You can identify where he taught certain things.

You can identify where the temple was and things like that. Mark presents Jesus predicting his own death on the cross at the hands of the

Jews, as well as his resurrection from the dead. The cross is central to Mark's message, just as it was to Paul's message.

But likewise in Mark, Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do in Mark chapter 2.

He says, there is none good but God alone, speaking self -referentially in Mark chapter 10. He wasn't saying,

I'm not good. He was trying to get the young man to know who he himself was. He identifies himself as the

Son of Man, a divine figure from the book of Daniel in Mark chapter 14. And so clear was that identification, the

Jews tore their clothes and said, you've heard the blasphemy. Why do we need any more witnesses? They understood exactly what

Jesus was saying about himself. The other Synoptic Gospels, Matthew and Luke, likewise present

Jesus as a historical figure. Messiah, prophet, Son of Man, Son of God, sacrifice for sins.

Matthew records one of the many places where the Bible and the Quran directly contradict one another and we need to look at this and honestly recognize this and talk about this openly together, if we truly respect one another and have a high view of truth.

We have to look at this. For example, in Surah 5, verse 16, the Quran has Jesus say, quote, You know what is in my heart, though I do not know what is in yours.

That's in reference to Allah. But over 500 years earlier, the

Gospel of Matthew had quoted Jesus saying these words, All things have been handed over to me by my

Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, nor does anyone know the

Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Jesus is the one through whom we gain knowledge of God the

Father. He has a perfect knowledge of the Father. That was written at least 500 years prior to the

Surah, a citation that we gave. Now there is no question that the fourth Gospel, the Gospel of John, plainly teaches that Jesus was a man just as the

Synoptic Gospels do and that He died on the cross, but even the most liberal critics recognize that this

Gospel plainly teaches the full deity of Christ, identifying Him as the Word who was made flesh.

And we should keep in mind that the earliest documented book of the New Testament, in other words the earliest manuscripts of any

New Testament book we have are of what book? The Gospel of John. And it is that Gospel that presents a picture of Jesus most unlike what we find in the

Quran written over 500 years later. Yet John clearly comes, the

Gospel of John clearly comes from Palestine in the first century and was honored as scripture by all early

Christians. The book begins with the affirmation that Jesus eternally existed as God and became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.

Notice these words. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

All things came into being through Him and apart from Him. Nothing came into being that has come into being.

In Him was life and the life was the light of men. Then in the 14th verse of that first chapter we have these words.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw His glory, glories of the only begotten from the

Father, full of grace and truth. And there in the graphic you see the earliest record we have of these words from manuscript

P75 written about AD 175. I put that up there because it is so important to recognize this is not something where someone came along later and altered things or changed things.

This is what the Gospel of John has always said. The same book closes with Thomas' confession in John 20, 28.

Thomas answered and said to Him, answered and said to Him, to Jesus, my

Lord and my God. Jesus' response was not to rebuke Him which if He was a mere prophet He would have to.

His response was to recognize that His was a statement of faith. And He commended that faith and said, blessed are those who did not see and yet have believed as well.

So this Gospel then, John, speaks plainly of Jesus' voluntary self -sacrifice.

This is so important to understand. Jesus' life is not taken from Him. He gives it of His own accord.

Remember the carnal Christie? He voluntarily made Himself with no reputation. Same thing here.

For this reason the Father loves me because I lay down my life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from me but I lay it down on my own initiative.

I have authority to lay it down and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I receive from my

Father. These are the words of Jesus. John's Gospel likewise identifies

Jesus as the great I Am, the giver of life. Jesus says in John 14, 6,

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.

Now please notice, He did not say, I am the way for Jewish people and there will be someone else for other people.

There will be other prophets. No, He says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the

Father but by me. Not by my teachings, but by me. These are personal words.

I emphasize that because I was just listening to a well -known Islamic speaker by the name of Zakir Naik.

And he was explaining this text by saying, well, every prophet says this. When Moses was a prophet, he was the way, the truth, and the life.

And you only come to God by His teachings. But that's not something Moses ever said or ever could have said.

And Jesus' words are personal. He doesn't say, no one comes to the Father except by my teachings. He says, no one comes to the

Father except by me. The rest of the New Testament verifies these truths. The book of the

Acts of the Apostles records the earliest sermons of the followers of Jesus. And they confirm these same claims.

That Jesus was born, gave His life as a sacrifice for sins, and was the eternal Son of God.

One of the earliest sermons that we have recorded in all of Scripture is found in Acts chapter 2.

Why would I put a picture of myself up there? Well, this was just a few months ago at Macquarie University in Australia.

Where I was examining manuscript P91. Which is one of the earliest manuscripts of the

Acts of the Apostles. And it contains the very same section from that very same sermon. Where we read such things as, this

Jesus God raised up again to which we are all witnesses. As well as, therefore that all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made

Him both Lord and Christ. This Jesus whom you crucified. And so here we have from the early 3rd century here.

This manuscript again proving to us that this was the teaching of the

Christians from the very beginning. And we can provide documented evidence thereof. And so in summary, that Jesus the

Bible eternally existed as the second person of the Trinity. The eternal Son. He was born of the

Virgin Mary. Was a prophet. Lived at a particular time. Performed miracles. Proclaimed the

Kingdom of God. Identified Himself as the Son of God. The source of eternal life. He gave

His life voluntarily as a sacrifice for sins. And was buried. And rose again. So in a few minutes we have left just a few comments then on Jesus in the

Quran. Obviously I leave to my esteemed partner this evening the primary presentation of this.

But what are the issues? What are the differences we need to look at? The Quran's name for Jesus, Isa, appears in 25

Ayah in the Quran. But only once in all the Quran does Jesus speak from an identifiable location.

That being His cradle in Surah 19, verse 30. That section you read beginning verse, at Ayah 27.

At length she brought the babe to her people, carrying him in her arms. They said, O Mary, truly an amazing thing hast thou brought.

O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste. But she pointed the babe.

They said, how can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle? He said, that is the child in the cradle,

I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet. And he hath made me blessed wheresoever

I be. And hath enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He hath made me kind to my mother and not overbearing or miserable.

So peace is on me the day I was born. And the day that I die. And the day that I shall be raised up to life again.

Such was Jesus son of Mary. It is a statement of truth about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah.

Now listen to this. It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah that he should beget a son. Glory be to him when he determines a matter.

He always says to it, be. And it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. Him therefore serve thee.

This is a way that is straight. But the sects differ among themselves and woe to the unbelievers.

Because the coming judgment of a momentous day. Now I'm sure we'll be discussing a lot about this.

But one of the things that I will point out. Is that the story of Jesus speaking from the cradle. Does not come from any time near Jesus.

It comes from the 5th century, 5th or 6th century Arabic infancy gospel. And here is the actual quote that is found.

We have found it recorded in the book of Josephus. The chief priest who was in the time of Christ. And then said he was Caiaphas.

That this man said that Jesus spake when he was in the cradle. And said to Mary his mother. And notice the difference here. Verily I am

Jesus the son of God. The word which thou hast borne. According as the angel Gabriel gave the good news.

And my father has sent me for the salvation of the world. Now this does not come from Palestine.

Palestine does not come from a source that we can trust. That it had anything to do with the original

Jesus. But it is interesting that we find this in the Arabic infancy gospel. And we find a similar story in the

Quran. Beyond this one incident. Jesus is never located in history in the

Quran. He speaks as a disembodied voice. Primarily as an argument either for the prophethood of Muhammad.

Or against the Christians in Muhammad's day. This Jesus who is more of an argument than a person.

Is strikingly different than the Jesus of the Bible. And if you have never read both books.

You might not recognize that. If you have only read the Quran. Then reading the New Testament would be difficult. If you read only the

New Testament. Read the Quran. You find these striking differences. To the Christian reader. The Jesus of the

Quran only bears surface similarities. To the Jesus of the Gospels. He is a monotheistic prophet in both.

Yes. He is born of a virgin. And he works miracles. But the essence of Jesus' teaching and ministry.

Seems totally unfamiliar to the author of the Quran. Could this be due to the fact that Muhammad. Most Muslims will tell you.

Was illiterate. And he would not have had access to the New Testament. Or the Old Testament in his own language.

Because the earliest manuscripts we have. Of either the Old Testament or New Testament. Come from the end of the 9th century.

Long after Muhammad had died. And so he didn't have access to the original languages.

Or in his own language. Even if he could have read. He would not have had access to these particular things.

And it is interesting. The mention of working with miracles. Notice here. In Surah 349.

And appoint him an apostle to the children of Israel. With this message. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord.

In that I make for you out of clay. As it were the figure of a bird. And breathe into it.

And it becomes a bird by Allah's name. This idea of Jesus making clay birds come alive.

Comes from the 2nd century Gnostic Gospels. Which again is not a part of the historical evidence concerning Jesus.

But comes from a very different world view. And I don't think anyone here. Muslim or Christian alike.

Would embrace any of the Gnostic world view. Because it is not monotheistic. God is not the creator of all things.

The Gnostics are far removed from all of us. As far as the world view goes. And of course one of the primary differences between us.

Which hopefully we will be able to get to. Surah 4, verse 157. That they said in boast. We killed Christ Jesus son of Mary the apostle of Allah.

But they killed him not nor crucified him. But so it was made to appear to them. And those who differed therein are full of doubt. With no certain knowledge.

But only conjecture to follow. For of a surety they killed him not. Nay Allah raised him up unto himself. And was exalted in power and wise.

Now this one text has resulted in all sorts of different interpretations. As to what is actually being said here.

What does this mean? Was someone substituted for Jesus? And so on and so forth. Maybe we'll get into that this evening.

It is an important text to discuss. But I want to get to two other texts very quickly. Surah 572 helps us to see how important this subject is.

They do blaspheme who say Allah is Christ the son of Mary. But said Christ our children of Israel.

Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods of Allah. Allah will forbid him to go.

And the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say

Allah is one of three in a trinity. For there is no god except one, Allah. If they desist not from the word blasphemy.

Verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. Very clearly the author of the

Quran believes. That the trinity violates monotheism. That he is saying that Allah is one god amongst three.

And yet that is not what Christians have ever believed. The doctrine of trinity is. And what finally really concerns me is

Surah 516. And behold Allah will say. O Jesus son of Mary. Didst thou say unto men.

Worship me and my mother. As gods in derogation of Allah. It sounds like this text is saying.

That the doctrine of the trinity is Allah. Mary and Jesus. That Allah takes a wife and has a son.

Named Jesus. And I have met many Muslims who believe. That is what we believe. That of course has never been. What Christians have ever believed.

About the doctrine of the trinity. Even Ibn Kathir. One of the great early commentators. In his

Tafsir says. This ayah shows the crime of the Christians. Who invented a lie against the law.

And his messenger. Thus making a rival. Wife and son for Allah. Allah is glorified.

That he is far above what they attribute to him. So in conclusion. From the Christian perspective.

The bible presents an accurate view of Jesus. From the very people who knew him. And were charged to proclaim his message. Chronic denials.

The central teachings of the bible. Show no first hand familiarity. With the text of the bible itself. The Islamic position requires us to believe.

In a massive conspiracy. Wherein the enemies of the real followers of Jesus. Were victorious. Corrupting and destroying the original

Injil. And somehow keeping the original true followers of Jesus. From proclaiming their message.

So hopefully this brief rundown. Will help us to lay a foundation. For our discussion this evening.

As we look at Jesus in the bible. And the Quran. Thank you very much. Peace be upon you.

That is the Arabic expression. For greeting. Primarily.

The people. Of the Islamic faith. I am going to pretend.

We need to turn it down a little bit. It is feeding back. It is too hot.

Okay. I am going to. Just take the liberty.

Of extending those greetings. To everyone who is present here today. When I was asked by.

A long time friend. Who happens to be. A president of.

An Islamic center of non -violence. If I would be available. To have a dialogue.

This evening. On the subject of. Jesus. In the bible and the Quran. I very.

Willingly agreed. To make myself available. And the reason. That I agreed.

Was very simple. I am not. In any professional sense.

A scholar. Either of the bible. Or of the Quran. But I have studied

Quran. Since I was. In my teen. Age.

And I studied the Quran. In a way.

That is not very typical. I studied the Quran. By asking questions.

At every step. Throughout my life. And to give you an example.

I just. At one time. In my life. Felt that when

I am reading. The commentaries. I am paying.

Very close attention. To the details. Of everything.

That is there. In every word. And in every chapter. And I started.

Feeling that. I am getting. Too much information. Without having.

A very clear focus. As to what this information. Is all about. So at one point.

During those years. I decided to go. Through the Quran. Without looking into commentaries.

Simple translation. I just wanted to know. What is the basic.

Message. Of this cold book. And once I did that.

I came across. A very short expression.

And I want to share that. With you today. And that.

Short expression. Follows after. Every major chapter. That has been mentioned.

In the Quran. It says. That is.

O my people. Time.

To Allah. In prayer and worship. There is no one.

That you should turn. Into prayer. And worship. Except for him.

When I realized that. It was like. A door that has opened.

For me. After I entered. Through this door. I came to know. And look at.

Everything that is there. After the entry. And connect those pieces.

Together. In this one central theme. Of God. And his creation.

And how this entire. Creation. Is connected together.

In this single process. Of creation. And sustenance. And then.

This whole creation. Is connected. With the creator.

In the most lively fashion. And the Quran says.

That. Except for the human beings. As the human beings.

Are given. A choice. And that choice.

Is there. To see. How well they are going to. Use their intelligence.

Use their reasoning. And use their insights. To come and discover.

That God. Who is the creator of this entire universe. And connect with him.

In the most lively fashion. It has been.

A very. Challenging task for humanity. From the very beginning.

Although we have. Tremendous capacity. For reasoning. And understanding.

But when it comes. To connecting with God. There are. Huge challenges.

And. God. In his grace. Said. Very clearly.

That I am going to send for you. From time to time. Prophets.

Who will bring my guidance for you. And. If you.

Pay very close attention. To that guidance. You will know. How to connect with your sustenance.

This has been. The message. Of all the prophets. And as far as.

The Quran is concerned. This challenge. Has never been.

In any way different. That is to turn. To God. In search of meaningful.

Relationship. Now when it comes to Jesus. You had.

Gone through. The statements. That Dr.

White has. Presented before you. From the Bible. From the

Old Testament. And he has also been. Very gracious.

To quote. The Quran. And very interestingly.

I had. The same verses. That he quoted. Before you.

And I wanted. To have. One of our friends here. Who I have known.

For a few years. And I told him that. He should have been the person.

Who should have been sharing. His insights and understanding. With the audience today. He has graciously agreed.

To read the translation. Of those seven verses. From Surah Maryam.

That is chapter 19. Would Brahminsa. Be kind enough to read those.

Seven verses. The translation of those seven verses. These verses are from.

The Surah 19. Entitled Maryam. Verses 30. Through 36.

But he. Jesus said. Behold. I am a servant of God.

He has vouchsafed unto me. Revelation and made me a prophet. And made me blessed wherever.

I may be. And he has enjoined upon me. Prayer and charity.

As long as I live. He has endowed me with piety. Towards my mother.

And he has made me not haughty. Or bereft of grace. Hence. Peace was upon me.

On the day when I was born. And will be upon me. On the day of my death.

And on the day. When I shall be raised to life again. Such. Was. In the words of truth.

Jesus the son of Mary. About whose nature. They so deeply disagreed.

It is not conceivable. That God should have. Taken unto himself a son. Limitless. Is he in his glory.

When he wills a thing. To be. He but says unto it. Be and it is.

And thus it was. That Jesus always said. Verily God. Is my sustainer as well as your sustainer.

So worship none but him. This alone. Is the straight way. Thank you.

Now. As I was. Mentioning earlier. The question.

Is very clear. And very simple. For every human being. And that question is.

How do I find. My connection with God. For.

The Christian brethren. Professor White pointed out.

That. They. Consider. Jesus. As the way to God.

And the Quran is very clear. The Quran is very clear.

In one sense. That. Every human being. Based on.

The faculties. That God has endowed. To all of us. By reflecting.

On the signs. Within the creation. Of this entire universe.

We come to say. That there is a creator. And we don't exactly know.

How to describe. That creator. How to in fact.

Define him. But we come. To assess. That there is someone.

Who has brought. This entire. Creation into being. And. In my own ways.

I go back. To Abraham. I go back.

To Abraham. Because Abraham has been presented. As. Someone.

Who can be modeled after. By any human being. Irrespective.

Of the kind of circumstances. In which one. Is born. And Abraham was born.

In a society which was filled. With adultery. His own father.

Was one of the major. Carvers of the isles. That people used to have.

In their homes. In their temples. But Abraham.

Starts asking questions. And finally. He comes to a conclusion.

That this system. Of having idols. Of different gods. As the way.

To find solutions. For human problems. Is absolutely. Baseless.

It has no intellectual. Rational basis. So the Quran. Puts prime emphasis.

On the faculty. Of reasoning. There is absolutely.

No other way. For any person. In any faith tradition. Whether Christianity.

Judaism. Islam. Hinduism. Where the primary. Role of reason.

Can never be suspended. Now we have all the verses.

From the bible. From various gospels. And we have verses.

From the old testament. And we have verses from the Quran. And the challenge.

For each and every one of us. To look at those verses. Examine the verses.

From the sources. Of the Christian faith tradition. Examine the sources.

That are there available. From the old testament sources. From the Jewish sources.

Examine what the Quran. Has to say. I don't want to get. Into all those verses.

That are. Taught. In Dr. Weiss.

Weiss presentation. And outside of it. There are other verses.

The reason that I picked. Only these seven verses. They cover the entire.

Grammar. First of all. It says very clearly.

That. Jesus. Is a prophet.

Nothing more. Nothing less. That's the position of the

Quran. And Dr. Weiss himself. Has made it very clear. Now. All the issues that arise.

Because of the way. Jesus was born. And the way. Jesus's life ends.

On this. Earth. Creates a number of questions.

For the people. Who subscribe to. The Christian faith. The way he was born.

Suggests to them. That. Is not an. Usual human birth.

So there has to be something. That they have to find. To explain this away.

So the explanation. That they have found. Whether it's from. Way back.

Or from the present. Commentators of the bible. Is to bring.

An element of divinity. Into the person of Jesus. And the

Quran. Is very clear. The Quran says that. Jesus was born to Virgin Mary.

But. For God. To have Jesus. Take birth from Virgin Mary.

Is absolutely. Not a problem. And the Quran is very clear on that.

For example when. The Quran says that. In the case of Jesus.

God has no problem. His example. Is like that of Adam. Adam was created.

Without a father. And a mother. Adam was created.

In a completely. Novel fashion. And for that matter.

Eve was created. In a completely. Novel fashion. But none of these.

Unusual ways of their. Coming into being. Have brought any element of divinity.

Into their persons. So. God simply.

Wants to let humanity know. That for God. To bring Jesus.

In this world. Without a father. Is absolutely. No problem at all.

That simply shows. That God is not bound. By these natural processes.

That we consider so critical. In terms of understanding. Things around us.

For God. None of these things are binding. So for God. To create Jesus.

Without a father. Is not a problem. And you read from the words.

That you read on the screen. That for him. Is simply.

To say be. And it's there. So in this kind.

Of understanding God. That the Quran. Wants to cultivate in the mind.

And spirit of every human being. Because God's. Unlimited.

Capacity to do things. In whatever way. He chooses. Is one of the basic ingredients.

Of understanding. The power of God. If we don't get that kind.

Of understanding about God. We are seriously deficient. In terms of our.

You know many. Insights about God. As an infinite.

As omnipotent. Omnipresent. Being. So that is.

What in fact. Jesus himself. Is reported to have said.

When things. Were presented before him. When he was born. And these verses.

Refer to that occasion. In which Jesus says. But he said.

Behold. I am a servant of God. My normal way.

Of coming into being. Has not changed my status. In any way. I am still like.

Any other human being. A servant of God. We have to be very clear on that.

This is the Quranic view. Of Jesus. He has God sent.

To me revelation. And made me a prophet. What is the difference between me.

That is Jesus as a human being. And all other human beings. That God.

Has God said. That he is going to be a prophet. That's the difference. God has sent.

His guidance to Jesus. And. God has enabled him.

To live that guidance. As a model for the people. Who will be asked by him.

To take his path. To follow his path. And that's exactly. What is stated in the following verses.

And made me blessed. Wherever I may be. A person who is a prophet.

A person who is divinely direct. Is a blessing. Is a blessing.

As long as that person. Lives on this earth. Because God is manifesting.

Himself. Through this human expression. So. Jesus makes it very clear.

That I am blessed. Wherever I may be. And he has enjoined on me.

Prayer and charity. As long as I live. So this is the humanity.

Of Jesus. He is letting everyone know. That his mother earth.

In no way has exempted him. From the most critical thing. That human beings need to do.

Is to turn to God. In prayers and worship. And be charitable. In their lives.

Be generous in their lives. This is what Allah SWT. That is God. Wants the human beings.

To express and exhibit. In their lives. So this is what

Jesus says. That I am. He has enjoined upon me. Prayer and charity.

As long as I live. And has endowed me. With piety towards my mother.

And he has not made me. Happy of rest of grace. That shows.

That although. Jesus is born. Without a father.

And his mother. Now is being viewed. By these people.

As a suspect. He is letting. Everyone know.

That they should not. At any point think. That he is going to be influenced.

By the suspicions. Of these people about his mother. He is going to be truly.

Devoted to his mother. A faithful son. Who will glorify.

Her chastity. Her love for him. At all expense. He is never going to be.

Tired of doing that. On the day when I was born. Hence peace was.

Upon me. On the day when I was born. And will be upon me. On the day of my death.

And on the day when I shall be. Raised to life again. Such was in the words of truth.

Jesus the son of Mary. About whose nature. This so deeply.

It is not conceivable. That God should have taken. Himself a son.

Limitless is he. In his glory. No other being.

No other being. Can claim this. Limitless.

Glory. Is only God. That has this. Limitless glory.

And no other person. No other being. Can be compared. In that glory.

When he wills. A thing to be.

He but says. Unto it be. And it is. And all these miracles of Jesus.

That Dr. White. Quoted through the verses of the Quran. Very clearly.

Indicated. That it is God that has enabled. Jesus. To perform those miracles.

There is absolutely no doubt. And. Other prophets have performed miracles.

For example. In the case of Moses. He was given this staff. That he used.

To have the children of Israel. To cross the Nile. And he used that staff.

To perform other miracles. What is very critical. For all of us to remember.

That these miracles. Were in no way.

Serve the purpose. That people used to say. That it will be helpful for us.

For example. In the case of Moses. In spite of the miracles he performed.

Pharaohs. Never accepted. The message of Moses. And similarly.

In the case of Jesus. In spite of all his miracles. History has recorded.

Very clearly. That people who lived in his time. Did not accept him. Universally.

As the messenger of God. In spite of his miraculous birth.

In spite of the miracles. He performed. People still. Did not believe in Jesus.

As the prophet of God. So. These miracles. These Nile Saints.

Are given. To people. To see if they are really going. To open their minds and hearts.

And accept the truth. And what it shows. That people can close their minds. Can become so blind.

That even such clear evidences. Would not allow them. To come to the truth.

That's where. The Quran very clearly makes. That the human mind.

Has to be used. In a very clear fashion. To come to understand the truth.

And then come to connect. With God. In such a fashion. That our lives will be transformed.

To reflect the grace. And mercy of God. In our everyday life. And then in our relations.

With other people. This is what Jesus says. That while I am praying to God.

I also have to remember. To be charitable. With every other human being.

So that connection with God. Has to be of a kind.

That I have. I assimilate. And I invite. The grace of God.

And then. Translate it in my life. In such a way. That other human beings.

Are able to see. The grace of God. All around me. I am going to try something.

Test it. I think one of our problems here.

Is that I am too far forward. The speaker is right there. That is where we are getting feedback. I am going to move back a step.

I think we might be able to cut out some of the feedback. Thank you. Testing one.

I am going to have to speak very quietly. It is a little bit hot. Thank you. Let's compare.

Testing one. Is that good? Yep. I got it.

All right. Well thank you very much. For that presentation. I would like to start by.

Responding to the statement that was made. Specifically that. The means by which.

Jesus was born. Is taking his Christians as evidence of his deity. That is not an argument the new testament.

Actually makes. It is never said that because he was virgin born. That means he is God. We recognize that God could cause anyone to be virgin born.

If he so chose to do so. There is a reason why Jesus was virgin born. Why he had to be virgin born. But that is not one of the evidences.

Of the deity of Christ. As far as the new testament is concerned. So if there is a concern.

On that part in the Quran. Then the question would be where did that concern come from. In the same way the miracles.

Yes we would agree that Jesus. Viewed them as signs. And there is a similarity between the Bible and the

Quran. In that way. In that especially the gospel of John. It is presented. Those are signs that are presented.

That demonstrate the hardness of heart. Of many of those people who saw what Jesus did. Think about when

Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Here they see a man alive. Who had been dead for four days.

And what is the response of their heart. We need to find a way to kill this man. Because they were so concerned.

About their own personal ambitions. But again it is not the miracles. That demonstrate that Jesus is

God either. It is the direct statement. Of the text of scripture. In surah chapter five.

I believe it is on my desk I recall. Verse I of 47. We read.

Let the people of the gospel judge. By what God hath revealed therein.

If any do fail to judge. By the light of what God hath revealed. They are no better than those who rebel. Now I see this.

I have studied this section. Fairly carefully. It is meant to be an apologetic argument. For the prophethood of Muhammad.

But we are told. The people of the gospel. Are to judge.

By what Allah hath revealed therein. The only therein is the gospel. And so the question becomes.

Are we then being told. By the Quran. To judge Muhammad's message. By what

God has revealed in the Injil. Well that would be a meaningless statement. If the people of Muhammad's day.

Did not have the Injil. By which to judge. The problem is. We know exactly.

What the New Testament looked like. Exactly what the gospel message was. At the beginning of the 7th century in Arabia.

We have manuscripts. Complete manuscripts of the New Testament. That long predate this period of time. And so I believe

I am showing honor. To the Quran. When it challenges me. As one of the people of the gospel.

The Injil. To judge by what God has revealed therein. The Quran is saying.

God revealed the Injil. And I know what modern Muslims believe at this point. I know that modern Muslims believe.

That the Injil has been corrupted. The question is. On what basis is that to be accepted.

And that is what we need to be thinking about. This evening. Because just before that. In the 4th surah.

In ayah 171. The Al -Qatab. The people of the book are addressed.

O people of the book. Commit no excesses in your religion. Nor say of God. Ought but the truth.

Christ Jesus the son of Mary was no more than. A razul of Allah. An apostle of Allah.

And his word which he bestowed on Mary. And a spirit proceeding from him. So believe in God and his apostles.

Say not trinity. Desist. It will be better for you. For God is one God. Glory be to him.

For our exalted is he above having a son. Now in surah 19. Which we just had explained to us.

And here in surah 4. Both times you have the same thing stated. We saw the same thing in surah 5.

116. God is exalted above having a son. And in surah 12.

The 112th surah. The third ayah says. He begat as not more as he begot.

This is a fundamental aspect. Of the assertion of the Quran. But here is a question.

I believe we all have to consider together. Seriously. If we say that we are people of truth.

And I would say to you. If you come out on a Saturday night to this place. To hear this discussion. You are not a person who is.

Unconcerned about truth. If we are concerned about truth. Here is the question. Does the

Quran. Present an accurate understanding. Of the positions it is denying. There is no question it is denying a position.

Hell fire, curses, excesses. The fire will be your abode. Blasphemy. Those are harsh words.

And they are right there in the text of the Quran. So if you are going to use. Words like that. Then the question is are you accurately describing.

What someone believes. Now we saw it in surah 5. 116. Ibn Kathir understood it.

To be talking about what Christians believe. But Christians have never believed. That God married Mary. And had a child.

And yet each one of these texts. Seems to be talking about exactly that. Talking about this idea of God.

Beginning a son. If you have never understood this. And this was well understood long before. The time of the regular

Quran. The relationship between father and son. Is an eternal one. It never started.

It has always been that way. The father has always been the father. The son has always been the son.

There was never a time when the son came into being. That was one of the great arguments. Of the 4th century.

Was the movement called Aryanism. To try to turn Jesus into a lesser God. Almost a demigod.

But Christians have never believed. That God married Mary. And had a child. And yet most

Muslims. I've talked to think. That's what the Quran is presenting. Ibn Kathir certainly thought that was the case.

Well that's an excess of religion. We need to know it. But I just compare that. With what we find in the text of the

Bible. In just a few minutes that I have left. Allow me to. Direct your attention.

All of you. To an encounter recorded for us. Again in the earliest documented.

Word of the New Testament. It's not the first one written. But it's the earliest way of documentation of it. That is the Gospel of John.

In the 8th chapter of the Gospel of John. Jesus was speaking to certain Jewish people.

Some of them were going to end up believing in him. But by the end of the chapter. They were going to be picking up stones to stone him. Because Jesus sort of gored.

One of their favorite ideas. He said if you continue to follow me. You'll know the truth. The truth shall make you free.

They didn't like that idea. That it had to be set free. But before getting to that. Jesus said these words to the

Jews. In John 8 .24. I told you. That you will die in your sins.

For unless you believe. That I am. You will die in your sins.

Now he used a Greek phrase there. Egoini. Egoini. Is used a number of times in the

Gospel of John. But if you carefully trace it back. You discover. That it's used as a name of God.

In the book of Isaiah and the minor prophets. It's the Hebrew phrase Anahu. In fact in John 13 .19.

Jesus quotes from Isaiah 43 .10. Where Jehovah says. Before me there is no

God form. There shall be none after me. And he quotes from that text. And applies it to himself.

Remember in John chapter 18. When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus. Remember what happened.

Jesus said. Who are you seeking? Jesus response was. Egoini. I am.

And what happened? The soldiers fell down on the ground. Why would that happen?

They fell back. They didn't fall down on their knees and worship. They fell backwards. Egoini. I am.

And in John chapter 8. This very same chapter at the end. Jesus is saying before Abraham was. Egoini.

I am. And the Jews will pick up stones. To stone him. Because they well know exactly what he's proclaiming for himself.

They all recognized. That Jesus is using words of himself. That no mere prophet.

Could ever say. And so with that as a background. Look back at what Jesus said. Verse 24.

I told you that you will die. In your sins. For unless you believe. That I am.

You will die in your sins. Now. Surah 5.

Tells me to judge. By what's found in the Injil. And there is no question in my mind.

What so ever. And I have defended this against. Some of the leading skeptics of the New Testament. Like Bart Ehrman and John Dominic Crossan.

That Jesus said. That these. Are the words that John. Originally wrote.

He wrote these words. Jesus said. Unless you believe that I am.

You will die in your sins. I don't know about you. That sounds rather funny. I don't want to die in my sins.

I want to know. That my sins have been forgiven. I want to know that my sins have been borne.

That I'm not going to be held. Responsible for them. Before a holy God. Because the only penalty for sin.

Is separation from God. And eternal death. And so what did Jesus mean.

When he said to those Jews. Men who are standing no farther away from him. Than you are sitting away from him.

Unless you believe. That I am. You will die in your sins. Those are heavy and weighty words.

If we follow the Quran. That is an excess. But I simply ask you a question.

On what basis. If you're a Muslim. And someone came along.

Hundreds of years after Muhammad. And claimed to be a prophet. And yet stand in line with Muhammad.

And decided to start. Denying everything that Muhammad taught. Would you just accept him. Right off the bat.

That must be true. No you would test him. You would see if he's consistent. With what

Muhammad himself taught right. What's found in the Quran. Well here's a situation.

Where someone has come along. 600 years. After Jesus spoke these words.

We have no evidence. That he ever read these words. That he ever heard these words.

Directly himself. And he says. You're committing an excess. And if you.

Continue to believe in that excess. Then fire will be your boat. Well.

We have to. Lay these issues out tonight. And make decisions. Is there a basis for believing that.

You would have to. Assume that this gospel. Was somehow corrupted. When it was originally written.

That somehow the original followers of Jesus. Did not stay faithful to him. And defend the truth about who he really was.

I suggest you. There's no reason to believe that. They were willing to die for their faith. And so you have.

The earliest documentable sources. Saying Jesus taught this. And then we have the

Quran. Coming 750 some odd miles later. In a different language. Without knowledge of the

Old and New Testament. By direct citation there from. Saying no. Those things that you now believe.

Are in excess. Upon what basis. Do we make that kind of decision.

Do we really have. A solid foundation for overthrowing. The consistent testimony.

Of what is found in the gospels. On the basis of something that comes. 600 years later.

That is the question for all of us this evening. Thank you very much for your time. I just want to.

Sort of. Sort of. Make the basic question. Clear again.

The basic question. For every human being. Is how.

We connect with God. This.

Question. Can never be set aside. And. Before Jesus was born.

Was there. A way to connect with God. Through. Prophets.

And were there people. During those prophets time. Who refused to accept the guidance.

This. Distinction between those. Who can connect with God. And those who are.

Unwilling. Is basically the question. That is going to be.

Upward most in the life. Of all of us. And it has been.

Upward most. Throughout human history. Now did people.

Believe in God. Before the time of Jesus. Were they forgiven for their sins.

Or not. If we say yes.

There were people. Who believed in God. And they followed. The divine path.

And they were forgiven their sins. The answer.

To the question. That has been raised by. Dr. White. Becomes simpler.

Even. If one wants. To believe about Jesus. In whatever way.

They want to believe. They in no way. Can deny other human beings.

If they are there. To say that I believe. For example. In Moses. I believe for example in Abraham.

I believe for example. In some other prophet. And I have found the way to God.

What. I am going to say. To this person. That you have.

Your source of guidance. And I have my source of guidance. Can we.

Share these sources. And see if they are. Rationally.

Logically consistent. And are they all. Going to bring us.

On the path. Where we can connect with God. Here. There is a demand that.

You have to believe in Jesus. In a certain way. To find the salvation.

What I am going to say. That there is a certain way. That has been defined by.

Sources that. James White has quoted. Are not really convincing to me.

The convincing way. For me. Is to be very clear. That I am connected with God.

And God has laid out a path. In which faith and righteousness. Are the primary principle.

For human beings to observe. Faith in God. And righteousness in their lives.

There is no shortcut. To this path. And based on.

The statement. This is what all the prophets. Have said. Including Jesus.

Whose miraculous birth. Has not changed. The way things have been laid out.

For human beings. He also said very clearly. That the faith in God. And righteousness.

Is the only way for salvation. Is not saying. That you have died for my sin.

I believe in that. And you are going to save me. That way of looking at life.

Is not at all acceptable. As far as the Quran has concerned. The Quran insists.

The Quran insists. And it demands from the followers. Of all other faith traditions.

From all other faith traditions. Irrespective. With which these faith traditions exist.

That if. Connection with God. If faith in God. And righteousness.

Is not the guiding principle. Of your faith. The Quran challenges it.

The Quran challenges it. To make sure. That you lay out all the conditions.

That you prescribe. For the true salvation. Or human. Situation. So what

I am going to say. That for the brothers and sisters. Who are here. Who subscribe to the

Christian faith. If they are saying. That there is another way. Besides having faith in God.

And living a righteous life. That is going to lead to salvation. I contend.

That that is not the way. I view my life. To be lived.

In the future. I am very clear. That the message of Jesus. The message of Moses.

The message of Abraham. The message of Noah. The message of David. The message of Solomon.

All of the prophets. Has been one and the same. And very clear.

Because on this basic issue. You can't leave things vague.

And uncertain. The Quran makes it very clear. That it has been made most clear.

And very simple. And people need to have. Connection with God. Faith in God.

And live righteous life. And this is what Jesus demanded. From his disciples.

And this is what. The disciples assured Jesus. That they will do. That they will live.

A life of faith. And live a righteous life. Of course we are going to believe.

Jesus as the path for salvation. Because this is the path. That he laid out.

Not that you believe. That I have come to die for your sins. If this is the way.

What will happen to all those people. Who lived before the time of Jesus. Who is going to provide.

Salvation for them. Are they in a limbo.

And what will happen to people. Who never came to know. About Jesus. As such.

And they have lived in different parts of the world. And they have their own sources of guidance. And they are living their lives.

In that fashion. So is it not necessary. That when we reach out.

To those people. That we use all the resources. That we have. And present it in a logical.

Rational fashion. So that they can see. Which path is really.

The guaranteed path for salvation. The guaranteed path for salvation. As far as the

Quran is concerned. That has been quoted. Time and again. That is the faith in God.

The faith in prophets. And the faith in the guidance of God. And living the righteous life.

So I pray. That may God. Guide us. And help us.

And enable us. To have this basic understanding. And clarity.

As to how we are going to have salvation. And not only salvation. In the near after.

Those guidance. That were brought by all these prophets. Were brought so that people.

Can live their lives. In this world. In this world. Righteously.

So that the grace. And mercy of God. Can be shared through real.

Living experiences. That's where all the prophets. Provided the guidance.

So that people can live their guidance. And become a source of grace. And mercy for each other.

And that's what Jesus did. And that's what Muhammad. Peace be upon all of them.

So I'll leave. The rest of the time. For further discussion.