2 Samuel 12:15-31

Prayer Before the Study of 2 Samuel 12

Barry, seeing how you're visiting with us today, would you open us up with a word of prayer?

I'd be happy to. Heavenly Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you for your day and the day that we can gather with other saints to hear your word preached and to gather in corporate worship. God that you would bless this time, that you would give Mike the words to say that we need to hear, and that you would just open your word up to us.

David Fasts for the Child and Questions God’s Judgment

All right, I'm going to, I'm just going to read.

From 15 to the end of the chapter. I don't know if we'll finish because we're going to get into a difficult subject dealing with the loss of his child and God's judge, all that. So we'll, let me just read and we'll discuss or argue or however you want to talk about it.

Then the Lord struck the child, I'm sorry, so verse 15. So Nathan went to his house and the Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David so that he was very sick. David therefore inquired of God for the child and David fasted and he went and he lay all night on the ground and the elders of his house all stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them.

Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. The servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead for they said behold while the child was still alive we spoke to him. He did not listen to our voice.

How then can we tell him that the child is dead since he he might do harm to himself. But when David saw that his servants were whispering together David perceived that the child was dead. So David said to his servant is the child dead.

And they said he is so David arose from the ground he washed and anointed himself changed his clothes and he came into his house the Lord's house and worship. And he came to his own house and when he had requested they set food before him and he ate and his servant said to him what is this thing that you have done while the child was alive.

You fasted and wept but when the child died you have now arose and ate food and he said while the child was still alive I fasted and wept for I said who knows the Lord might be gracious to me and that the child might live.

But now that he has died why should I fast. Can I bring him back or will I go to him but he will not return to me. Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba he went to her and lay with her and she birthed to him a son and named him Solomon.

Now the Lord loved him and sent word through Nathan the prophet and named him Jedidiah for the Lord's sake. Now Joab fought against Rabbah the sons of Ammon and he captured the royal city. Joab sent messengers to David and he said I have fought against Rabbah and have captured the city of waters.

I'm sorry captured the city and its waters. Now therefore gather the rest of the people together camp against the city capture it and I will capture the city myself and it will be named after me. So David gathered all the people and he went to Rabbah.

He fought against it captured it and they took the crown off the king's head there. And the weight of it was a talent of gold and it was presented with precious stones and it was placed on David's head.

And he brought out the spoil of the city in large amounts. He also brought out the people who were in it and put them under saws sharp iron instruments axes and put them pass them through the brickling.

And he said. And he did to all these cities and to the sons of Ammon and David and all the people returned to Jerusalem. So last time we were together in this passage we had got to where David. David had been fasting and praying that the Lord would spare the the killing of his child.

And that's hard. That's difficult for people to to swallow one. Does anybody remember other times in scripture where God actually strikes a man. We know that all death comes from God. But just remember back.

There are times in scripture when God striked him. Remember er God struck him that he did evil in the sight of God. And what did he do. He said that God struck him. Now we could even go back to Nabal.

Do you remember what. God who what does it say about Nabal. Just the last the last book or part of first and first Samuel it says that God struck Nabal. The same words used here when it says that the Lord struck the child of Uriah's widow that was born to David.

I don't know about y 'all man. That's hard. The child was not at fault. But does anybody remember why. What God said why he was going to do this. Do anybody remember when we read through it. Or if y 'all read it on your own God said I'm not going to have this blaspheme my name.

Remember what he has done was an adulterous relationship. The child was birthed out of adulterous. He tried to cover it up with murder. And God says I'm not going to have my name defamed and I'm going to strike the child dead.

And David in an act of contrition and repentance he fasted and prayed hoping that the Lord would stay. The execution of the child is fasting. It does fasting always work. That's a good question. Isn't it.

Because we do see at times when the people fasted God's heart is turned. You take Esther. Remember when all that was fixing to happen. They fasted and and God's heart was turned. And they the people were were saved.

The God's people were saved. Let's think about the Ninevites. Yeah. And they they called it a national fast. And God stayed. The.

Execution of that city but I didn't think about like Hezekiah when uh Rabshakeh came up against.

The city. Yep poor lord. Oh man that's a rough section. He tells him he's gonna make him eat dung and all kind of that is yeah you want to make your soldiers eat drink urine and eat dung. And yeah. It's like yeah.

Yeah you're right. And and he did he and then he he also extended his life Hezekiah's life. By what 15 years wasn't it. So when we see this David was was praying and fasting that God would not kill his child.

And there's and I do believe that there is. Um that is an act of of repentance on David's part I mean his offspring. If we just look at David's life we're fixing to see in the next few chapters that David's going to lose three children.

He's going to lose this one although the relationship with that child was not nearly as long as it will be. Amnon and Absalom. Okay. But still it's a child and I'm speaking out of experience. That's tough.

And anyone else has lost a child. And there's there's the grief is unbearable. So in this it almost when David prays he's fasting. God does not answer his prayer the way he wants. Does God always answer our prayers.

He does. He doesn't may not always answer the way we want. Okay. Um just like you know my experience pray and ask God that he would you know raise my boys up from this hospital bed put his head back together make his heart start beat whatever.

Okay. And and God answered the prayer of no. That's hard. Just like David it was hard. But David knew at that point when he was done praying and the child was dead. What did he say. Is there any reason for me to fast.

The reason for I was fasting and praying was that God would maybe be gracious and God chose not to. And for some people that's hard. God for in his purposes says I'm not. It's more important that my name be glorified than this child live in.

That's hard man. That's hard. Illustration is I remember years ago.

But we were very small couldn't pay our bills and uh we're gonna get through the house. We'll teach him the gospel and do the best we can taking him a long time. But he did it. Yeah and it was a.

It was a long track record of praying and praying and seeking the Lord and seeking the Lord. In this case that David. It looks like David maybe prayed seven days. It's interesting. I think we brought this up last time that he died before he was ever circumcised.

He died on the seventh day. Now the the the difficult part that we're going to get to is how should we understand verse 23 it says. But now that he has died why should I fast. No problem. Can I bring him back again.

What's the answer. Can David bring the baby back. No. Is God able to raise that baby up at that moment. Sure there's nothing impossible for God. But we at this point we know it's it's over. And then David says this.

I will go to him but he will not return to me. Now the question has been asked does this is a well should say this is a proof text that all infants go to heaven. I'm going to tell you I do not believe.

That's what this text is saying. Okay. I don't believe that. Don't believe. That's a good proof text. Because in the same way that this the word that's used here I will go to him. Or he can't come to me.

But I will go to him. It's the same way it was when Samuel came before king Saul. Remember he had the the witch of Endor call him up. Do you ever remember that. And he came up and he was calling the condemnation down on Saul and his sons.

He says look tomorrow you're going to be with me. Does anybody in here believe that Saul was converted. So what. So what does the context mean. He's going to be in the grave. That's how we understand that.

That's how I understand this. Can David. Can David bring the child up from the grave. No. But I can go to the grave where he is at now. You brought up the couple weeks ago. Do we all in here believe that all infancy go to heaven when they die.

I'm going to say something. Probably I don't. Okay. And here is why we have instances in scripture where God condemns all. Let's just take a look at these. Let's take the flood. How many pregnant women you think were at the flood.

How many kids. It's hard. I'm gonna be honest with you it's hard. Okay. How many souls were saved now in the flood. I would say ham. But he was saved through the flood. Okay. So I would say. But I don't.

I think he wanted to be an author's rocker. Okay he wanted to be the father of the Canaanites and all. Okay. But we know this that through the flood through God's judgment he only saved eight souls. And where do we know that.

In first Peter. First second Peter. One of the first second Peter. So we look at the flood. Solomon Gomorrah. How many children do we think were in that city. I'm sure. Okay that's what I'm saying. I want us to.

I want us to. But remember God condemned the whole world here Solomon Gomorrah. He condemned the two cities and everything in it. So if God condemned that why are we making a distinction. Oh well he he he killed all of them.

And then everybody I'm just gonna use this under the age of 10. Okay. Or whatever. The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible specifically says here in Peter.

But that's what he did. They really wasn't 15 righteous in Solomon. What's that. We know. There wasn't 15 righteous. Because that was the negotiating point that Abraham negotiated. I think it was 15 or 20.

Might have been. Couldn't even get five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was something like that. But there wasn't that many righteous. Yeah. And then as you spoke about the Ninevites.

Earlier now this is a good point for argument. And when we talk about the situation with Jonah remember I didn't know what would what was said at the towards the end of the book when Jonah was very angry with God.

God says who are you to be. You got a right to be mad at me because I was gracious. And do you remember what God told him. He says do you not understand. I would be pouring out my judgment on 120 ,000 people that can't make a distinction between their right hand and their left.

And then he puts something there that seems kind of odd to me that hey it's the Lord and the cattle. It's what. That's what it says. So when you think about that God we do see that God was going to to pour out his judgment on that city.

And would we say that that 120 ,000 were. Probably you can't make a distinction between your right hand and our left. What would we say. They were most likely children. I mean is there any. Yeah. Yeah.

Now if you disagree with my inference on that that's fine. We could say that could have been people that were mentally handicapped. Okay we can get to all of that but we see that God says I'm going to pour out my judgment on them.

And I chose not to. But in these two cases it's hard. It's hard for me to say that everybody died except that all of them were condemned in the wrath of God except for the children. Same thing here. Think about when he sends in and says you go in when he told Saul you go in and you kill every man woman boy girl and infant and child and suckling as an act of judgment.

It's uh if I remember correctly it's the word chorazin which means to be dedicated over given over to God as an offering of destruction. That's the word. It's hard for me to say okay I'm going to make a distinction where God doesn't.

Now I would say that this was not the norm for children. Okay. You understand. You follow me. Am I making sense or not. Why not we see God making large acts of judgment on people and groups. This is I don't think was the norm.

Okay. So that's why I can say in good conscience not all babies go to heaven when they die. Okay. That's why I can say that in good conscience. If you disagree with me. No problem. I just want you to understand where I'm coming to my conclusion from.

If somebody's going to sit here and say Mike I disagree with you I believe that they all go. Okay. I'm not. I'm not. Ultimately none of us really don't know. Do we. Okay did they know the old testament revelation of the immortality of the soul was there.

But we don't see it fully correct. Yeah a matter of fact we don't even have we in the old testament when we think of hell God's wrath and judgment we think of this but we don't think it in an eternal state like Lazarus and the rich man we because it had not fully developed in redemptive revelation.

So if you were going to teach the doctrine of hell and from the old testament you would have to start developing just how God's wrath had developed on people and groups and how that one day would point to a greater day of judgment.

Because even when you go through the prophets the great day of God's wrath the day of the Lord was always pointing to the final day of judgment. If I if I'm correct always pointed to the final day of judgment.

So I don't believe all children babies went to heaven when they die. Good. This is just a question. If you disagree with me you want to throw a chair at me go right ahead. I just this is where I'm at.

The Judgment of Children, Covenant Theology, and the Doctrine of Hell

Yeah if you stuck me in the eye think of my javelins going. But um so I'm just you you would say because those the babies were judged with the adults. Yes I do that the babies correct were also.

In sin correct now. I don't believe in covenant children but I know that is that where you're.

Well because I'm just that's the logical conclusion though. Because it's just interesting. Because you know those instances they were never a selected people. They were never a chosen people.

I mean think about the Amalekites and all the kind. If you go back to oh man I can't remember first kings. Maybe chapter 11. Don't. Don't say for sure. But it is first kings. What was the reason God created the Canaanites.

For it says explicitly for destruction. So you think about God created a whole people for destruction now. I'm not saying that. God doesn't save people out of that. He didn't save you. I'm not saying that.

But they were created for the purpose of destruction that is their their purpose. So go back to what you were saying. I'm sorry. Well I'm just saying it's just essentially.

In each of those instances those were never people that God people groups that God had chosen. In other words set his affection on Hebrews. You know the the Israelites God had set his affection on them.

Abraham said I'll make your sea as the sea call it. I don't ever see large scale evidences of judgment being poured out. Large scale on not be seen to carry it away. But that's a carried away. It's not a complete you know wiping out.

Yeah those are entering. Those are all the way I look at it is you know Ninevites. He would have destroyed the Ninevites. And he did a hundred years later. Right. He did saying they were never like they were.

Never. We never see that in Israelites. And so that's what I always look at. It is like well if they were that's where I can see people to get the argument of covenant. Children because he didn't ever kill large scale his chosen people.

Yeah not. By killing adults kids all nine yards. He would kill pagans except for 586.

And 70 AD that's true except now there was remnants within those. I'm not trying I'm not.

Being argumentative I just know in like 70 AD we could make the argument that he had transferred.

His affection from to the Christians you know yeah we know this that those there was Jesus said when you see these things uh and when the army surrounding when you see the abomination desolation or the abomination that makes things desolate uh run to the hills.

So we do know this in history from what Josephus and I think it was Tacitus and maybe uh Eusebius he was a church uh one of the church historians not at that time but further on and he they all said hey large amounts of Christians when they saw this taking place the civil war that broke out in 67 and went on through the destruction 70.

Man they ran to the hills some went to Pella some they they listened to what the Lord had told them and they left. But those who did stay which they would have understood them still to be a covenant people because they were the Jews.

God right. And it's very ironic that in that very passage he says woe to them who were child. Yes he does. Whoa yeah one thing really don't nursing don't do it on the sabbath and because he's making it into a a Jewish context because if they're gonna have to leave in the winter they can't get out up to the hills and if it's in on the sabbath as they're making their run away the Hebrew people regardless they would still want to help one of Jewish people would still want to help one another but they ain't gonna say nothing on the sabbath they're not gonna help you glean or whatever on.

The sabbath go ahead. I'm sorry. Well one thing though that supports your thing is even looking at Romans 9 God choosing a set of the affection. Yes you know the words Jacob I love you saw the hated you know that's from birth that's from pre-birth you know before eternity.

Path. Yeah that wasn't a reactionary thing on God's part. In other words it was a proactive a proactive thing.

So that's just what like you said is what makes it now. I'm not I'm not one to point to a confession like this is what the confession says. Okay I'm not one to do that. But I do believe that the the Baptist confession the second London's Baptist confession does make a good point.

Because and you're like no kidding Mike when I say to you know. No no kidding. All elect babies go to heaven. That's what it says. And I think that's a good way of saying it. Um it's because we don't know whom what God has chosen.

What he has not is if God not yet since God judged all of them. Would God be wrong in sending those little children down. Are they born in iniquity. Are those children born in iniquity. That's hard. It's hard.

It's hard. It's hard. And we don't want to think that way. No we don't. And you're right. And but I but I when I when I worked through this when I first come to faith in Christ and um I'm reading and I was very I was to know.

I was to the point to where he who has the son has life. That's what it says. That's what the text says. That's a wooden head thing. Hey we we shouldn't just uh that means anybody that doesn't goes to hell.

And that's where I was at now. That is a a wrong way of explaining the character and nature of God. Because when you say that okay who has son has life. Um and everybody else goes to hell. But then you are dealing with.

Okay. Is it possible that God can still show grace on those who don't have the ability to make a cognitive decision. Right. Can he. Of course he can. And if God does save them are they not saved. The same way we are by God's grace.

Correct. Yes okay says he's merciful to the third and fourth generation and we know this that the God of all creation will do. What is right. What is right. Yeah. Because but let.

Me let me have been perfectly right. Here is the nuke David. I mean all of them. Yeah like the whole.

Situation. It's interesting that God stays the execution of David in this very passage. Remember when Nathan comes to him and he says hey God's not gonna kill you. Now you're not gonna die. But what does he do.

He stays the execution of David. But what does he do. He kills his son and that also then brings up the the the question of well doesn't the scripture say that the sins of the father aren't passed on aren't to be paid for by the sins of the children.

Well this was a consequence of David's action. The child died for the consequence of David's action. He didn't bear the wrath of God in David's place. And that's what I do believe that the Ezekiel passage is saying look if Luke's not going to pay for my sins but Luke my son he could certainly bear the brunt of my bad to sit my sinful decisions that he would have to live with those consequences.

I think I we brought this up last time we're together. I mean just take our incognitive president. He launches a missile to one of these countries over here Russia or China. That's not mine or your fault is it.

No. But would we not bear the brunt of that. Okay that's that's what that's basically. Hey it's not our fault we didn't do it. But him as being our leader he would cause much problem on us grievous problems.

And then we get into that theological concept. Does his mercies extend to the consequences. Artist's mercies just extend to the same. And we do see at times where it does extend to the consequence and God can wipe them clean.

But God's not obligated to. God's not obligated to. And I know this is that this has been tough. And I know that you know you may disagree with me. Okay. I'm fine with that. I'm just not. I don't. I can't in good conscience say based on these two instances say that all babies all children go to hell.

I mean go to heaven. And I'm certainly not comfortable saying that they all go to hell. I've certainly not because we I mean we we do see passages like this where David did have hope though that he would see his child again.

He did. But was this hope for sure. No it's not. This isn't hope of salvation. A lot of maybe tons of maybe. Yeah. Maybe because we just don't know we we really don't. And when it talks about our hope being steadfast in Lord I hope in the Lord.

I hope that you know in our salvation. We know that our faith will one day be made sight. And the hope that we have in our salvation is not like hey when I go to the football game today I hope we don't get rained on.

Okay that's not it. Our hope is our salvation is we are stead. We know rock solid I drop dead today that I will be in the presence of the Lord. And my sins are forgiven. And I'll be clothed in the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ.

When I stand before God we believe that hold fast to that that's not the type of.

Hope Dave has here. Good. It's just a struggle to reconcile that with kind of our baptistization. Yeah that's that always and I know. And then it opens up the whole conversation of uh you know.

You have um age of accountability all that stuff. And I don't believe I do. I think you're accountable for the for your iniquity from the time you are conceived. Can the Lord be gracious and lay that sin that you're conceived in on the the back of Christ.

Well of course he can. And that child how whatever age whether it's seven months or seven years God can choose to save that child. I want you to believe that's like God saves children. I want you to think that.

Uh God doesn't. Of course he does. But when we get to like you're saying when we don't we're so uh caught up in the how you and I have made our decision to follow Christ was an act of regeneration our heart there was a cognitive to recognize the sinfulness recognize that.

Hey I'm I am bankrupt spiritually before God and I'm now going to turn from my unbelief and I'm going to turn to the repent and turn to belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and embrace him as the lamb of God that takes away my sin.

That's how we understand salvation right. Well we don't. It's hard to say that when you're dealing with incognitive people that are unable to make that choice. Okay. Yes. I got a question.

I'll have an answer. You might not like it. Okay. Uh this is uh two ten years ago. I don't know a church and there are a hundred and some odd people in there worshiping and tornadoes hit it and it killed something like 20 something.

People children and adults. How can you explain it. I know I know God's good. No but you know people come out and say well why did he do this. We were in the house. I couldn't answer that. I didn't know him.

I would tell you.

What I when the flood hit in Haiti that bad one that hit a few years ago 10 year whatever it was. And they didn't like what I said. I was asked that question. I was at the church I was asked hey you know what do you do about those kids.

And there they had died. So I'm gonna tell you like Jesus said when that when that tower fell on them. People you if you do not repent you too likewise will perish. That's all I can say. Okay. Yeah. Well um was it a direct result of someone's sin.

Well of course not. A tornado's not. It's a. Is it a direct result of the fall. No doubt. Who do you think said and spun that tornado or hurricane or tsunami. Who did that. God did. And every time we see anytime you see death in the Bible child grown up doesn't matter you understand that God is being faithful to his word.

We don't like that. Especially when you're I mean you're looking at someone who's children. Okay. I don't like it. Okay. Um but God's faithful to his word the soul that sins will die and God can choose to do that however he wants.

Think about this man. Even converted people gonna.

Die. Right. Okay. That's why the book of Job to me gives so much hope. Job's tough that whole counsel of God that you realize that nothing happens to a person without nothing happens to a believer God's.

Yeah consent oversight whatever you want to say without God doing it. God did it. And that's hard. God did it. However those circumstances. That's a very difficult thing. Especially when it you're facing something very close to you to go and God did this.

And I don't have an explanation don't have an explanation of why God did it. Don't have an explanation of. I mean think about Job. Job never knew what happened when even I preached a few weeks ago about Jeremiah.

You go. Well man if Job would have known the conversation that took place in heaven between Satan and the devil he would have handled things better. I don't believe that. I don't believe that one bit.

And I'm gonna tell you why. Because Jeremiah was told exactly what he was going to happen to him for 41 years. And Jeremiah's laments and hurts and desire to die and a desire for God to remove him from the face of the earth and a desire to wish he had never been born were the same laments that Job had.

And Jeremiah knew what was going to happen. That's why in the time of grief. Let's just take for instance if if Job would have known that God was going to strike everything that he had do you think that would have lessened the blow of grief.

I don't think anybody would say that. I don't think if you knew that you were going to lose everything that you had. Okay you you think you'd wake up in the morning and go. You know what. Yeah this is this is what God's doing.

And I'm just eventually God's going to give it all back to me. No way. Man in the moment of that you're in your you're you're you're dealing with loss and grief and hurt and confusion. And you're trying to work through that.

You're not looking at going. Hey whatever my God ordains is good. I can promise you that you're not thinking that even with God is even though you know God is on your side. Sure. That's what Job. You know he said he knew God was on his side.

But he didn't know what. Because he said I've been considered my servant Job. God knew he wasn't going to turn. Yeah he. And he knew. Because God was going to hold him fast. Yeah. And I call it gets into it.

You know. But the theology books didn't seem to help Joe very much at that. No. No. Um and you know we know that God works out all things for the good for those who are called. We know that. Um but that doesn't sound good in the midst of grief.

Is that true. That is so true. But that's not consoling. Okay. That's not consoling at times it is once you're getting through it you can look back and go. You know what. I can see that God was working this out.

And there are times as you're working through that you can say hey that God was doing this in my life through this. But in the in the immediate of it. Man you can't say that because you don't know you don't know.

So was back to where we were at was. Was David grievous that he had lost his son. But no doubt David knew at that point his child was going to be laid in a tomb. He could do nothing for him anymore. So what did David do.

He got up took a shower. Basically is what it says. He cleaned himself up and he went about doing his business now. Um and we don't I don't think we're gonna have much time to take him into God's house.

And he did. Yeah. But there's a there's a lot to be said even about that. Because there's never a time that we should not worship God. There is not even in in grief and in hurt. And um I'll be a little candid with you guys.

Uh the hardest thing um in in my experience I know we can't always make uh emphatic or dogmatic and experience. But um being thankful in a time like this is very difficult. Um being uh finding joy through uh counted all joy when you go through various trials.

But it's hard. I know that's what the Word of God says. But it's it's hard. I'm gonna be honest it's hard. It's hard to do that. It's hard to go. Hey man uh this is good. Well it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good.

And I know that at some point God will wipe away all of our tears. But I'm just gonna uh it's not gonna be in this life. It's not gonna be in this life. But there's never a time that the believer should not worship God.

Um do I think David was thankful that God struck his kid. Well of course not. But was he thankful that God had forgiven him. No doubt no doubt David was thankful that God had forgiven him. He knew he should be laying right next to him.

He should. Oh there's no doubt in my mind that David knew that. Yeah no doubt. So you get to verse 24 and it says that David comforted his wife Bathsheba and he went into her and lay with her. And she gave birth to a son and he and he named him Solomon.

Now the Lord loved him and sent word through Nathan the prophet that he named him Jedidiah for the Lord's sake. Now I and I brought this up early in the book. Um I'm not fully convinced that this is in uh correct chronological order this the Bible at times does not do things chronologically to bring its point it at times this is showing in my conclusion my understanding that God has already promised that he was going to have a child sit on the throne for David.

Right. This is now the first time we see Solomon enter the picture. And this is why I believe that it's it's put here by the narrator under the inspirational that this is going to be the promised child.

This we know that God loved Absalom. Right. Created being God loves all his creatures. Did he love Anna. Did he love Daniel. All these other children that David had. We know that. But do we ever see God.

Now look what it says here. It says that God loved Solomon. It's the first time we see that with dealing with his children. So that's what I believe here. And if you go back I can't remember it's in maybe first chronicles chapter four I think it's chapter four.