March 30, 2021 Show with Paul Murphy on “Reformed Evangelism” (Part 2) PLUS “Why We Must Cancel ‘Cancel Culture'”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming on IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of March, 2021.

I'm always delighted to have returned to the program an old friend of mine going back to the 1990s when

I was a sales executive for WMCA, 570 AM Christian Radio, a radio station and affiliate of Salem Media, the largest

Christian radio network in the world. And this dear brother was not only a friend, but had become a client of mine with programming and advertising.

His name is Paul Murphy, and he is the pastor of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York, New York.

That is a congregation within the United Reformed Church of North America. And today we are going to be continuing a discussion we began some time ago on Reformed evangelism, and we're going to be adding to that discussion why we must cancel cancel culture.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Paul Murphy. Good to be with you once again,

I really enjoyed last time, and I realized it had been a number of years since the last time before that, but it's always good to be with you and very glad that you're on the air, and you have such a sizable audience that appreciates your programming.

Well, I appreciate that very much, brother, and for the sake of our listeners who are unfamiliar with Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City, and if anybody lives in or near New York City, or has family, friends, and loved ones there or intends to visit there, you should definitely know about Messiah's Reformed Fellowship, because there are not that many, even though in that huge, heavily populated city, there are very few biblically faithful evangelical

Reformed congregations from which to choose in that city, and it is a reason for praise and thanksgiving to God that Messiah's Reformed Fellowship is one of those few, one of the remnant that remains there.

But tell us about Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City. Sure. Thanks, Chris. We are a congregation of roughly 100, 125 people.

We have quite a transient population. Church ministry in New York is just transient in the nature of the case.

People move to New York, people move out of New York. They come for various reasons, school, work, and then, of course, many

New Yorkers grow up in the city and want to leave the city for various reasons. We were planted as a direct response to the tragedy of September 11th with the hope that God would turn that tragedy into a triumph for the

Gospel. Christians here in New York thought that the best thing we could do as a

Christian was to plant a church in the shadow of the Twin Towers and preach the Gospel. So we've been in existence now 18 years, and we have grown from one charter member to over 100, 125 people.

We have 28 nationalities in our congregation, which really represents the ethnic and national diversity of the city itself, and we are a confessionally

Reformed congregation. We adhere as United Reformed Church. We adhere to the

Three Forms of Unity, the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dort, more familiarly known as the

Five Points of Calvinism. And we seek to make a difference in the city by being different, and we don't want to be like every other church.

We don't want to blend in and be a reflection of our culture. We want to be counter -cultural, and I believe that the

Gospel and the Christian faith are inherently counter -cultural.

Back in the 60s, the hippy -dippy days when I grew up, there was a lot of talk about the counter -culture, but I think that really the church is the true counter -culture.

Amen. We delight in being that, so that's a little bit of our story.

And tell us a bit about the United Reformed Church of North America, of which you belong, or to which you belong.

Sure. The United Reformed Church is a separatist movement largely out of the

Christian Reformed Church in North America. It began in the late 80s. We just had our 25th anniversary some years ago.

In the late 80s, there began to be some serious doctrinal deviations in the

Christian Reformed Church, and a number of people started withdrawing. And through various evolution of associations, the

Christian Reformed Alliance, the Alliance of Reformed Churches, eventually assembled into the

Uniting Reformed Churches, and then the United Reformed Churches in North America, where a denomination, a federation largely of churches in North America with mission efforts in a variety of countries around the world.

I would say there are about 120, 125 congregations in the United States and in Canada.

And yeah, we trace our lineage all the way back to the

Synod of Dort in 1618, and there are many, many members in our congregations that can trace the faith back in their families all the way back 400 years.

I pastored a congregation in Michigan for 13 years, and there were a number of families there when we would ask them, you know, how long has the faith been in your family?

That would say, well, we can trace it back almost 400 years, all the way back to Dort. So that set a vision for us in New York City as probably a congregation of probably 95 % first -generation

Christians. It set a vision for us to aspire to that we would hope that in 400 years people would look back and say, look at what

God began at Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in the shadow of the Twin Towers 400 years ago.

So we aspire to that, and we look to the Lord to keep us faithful to His Word and to His Son in the hopes that that will be said one day.

Amen. If anybody wants to explore the website of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City for more information, you can go to MRF, M -E -R -F, an abbreviation of Messiah's Evangelical Reformed Fellowship, I guess,

MRF, N -Y -C dot org, M -E -R -F as in Frank, N -Y -C dot org.

And I hope that if you live in or visit New York City, especially if you're there on a

Lord's Day, that you stop by Messiah's Reformed Fellowship. And you said something that triggered a memory in my mind.

You had talked, you spoke of being different, not going along with the status quo of modern day evangelicalism there in New York City, which can easily lead one into apostasy in this day and age, the way that formerly biblically faithful conservative evangelical churches seem to be crumbling and caving in out of fear, perhaps, or starvation for popularity and growth.

They're caving in to the whims of the left. And one of the things that surprised me, pleasantly surprised me, perhaps a year or two ago when

I was interviewing somebody involved in college campus evangelism, he said that there is a numerically significant segment of the millennial population that are sick and tired of the modern evangelical approaches to attracting young people.

They are actually not impressed seeing the church praise band wearing skinny jeans and playing rock music.

They're not impressed by the pastor wearing a t -shirt and skinny jeans and sneakers.

Now I'm not here to be overly critical or condemn anybody in our audience that dresses that way at church, or even if your leadership does, but I'm just stating as a fact from the evidence from which this particular evangelist on college campuses had to say is, it seems that millennials are very leery about anything that appears to be a

Madison Avenue sales pitch, anything that might have a trick involved in it, a bait and switch or whatever the case may be, where there are intentional activities going on in a church that are being performed in order to lure people in that normally would not want to worship

Christ. The people that I've been hearing about in the millennial community, I guess it's a sign that they are truly being drawn by Christ, is that they are actually seeking reverence.

They are seeking something ancient. They are seeking something that is real, that is really faithful to the scriptures that these churches claim to believe.

You have any comment on what I just said there? Yeah, I hear those same things, Chris, and I find it particularly encouraging.

Our membership is mostly younger, whether or not they're falling in the millennial bracket,

I'm not sure, but more than half our people are young people, and I think that what you just said is borne out in our population.

I think people are looking, you know, the buzzword that goes around now is authenticity. Young people are looking for authenticity, and I think that falls in there.

I think they are looking for something more. They're looking for meat and potatoes. They're tired of the snap, crackle, pop evangelicalism, and I find that if you can provide substantive preaching, ordered reverent worship, and warm, welcoming atmosphere congregation,

I think that's important. I think that there are Reformed churches that I'm familiar with, and you know,

I've been around the evangelical world around the country probably 35 years.

I think there are people that have a sound pulpit, faithful pulpit, and reverent ordered worship, but don't have a warm, welcoming congregation, and I think that's a critical part of it.

I think that's also part of the authenticity that people are seeking, is they're not just looking for abstract truth, they're looking for embodied truth, if I could put it that way.

Something that's actually impacting people and is reflected in their lifestyles and in the life of the

Church, and that's something that I think I'm very proud, as a pastor of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship, to have that found in our congregation, and I encourage our people about that a lot.

I think it's the thing that is commented most by people that visit us, is how warm and welcoming people are, and I think that's the way it should be.

But I do agree with what you were saying earlier. Solid preaching, meat not milk, reverent ordered worship is something that is inherently attractive.

When people step into the Church, they should not feel like they're going to the Friends bar of television.

They should not feel like they're going to a social club, or they should not feel like they're going into some concert or entertainment venue.

And why is that? Because the world can always do it better. Look, we're located in New York City.

For eight years or more, we were located just one block west of the theater district. If people want entertainment,

Broadway can do it a hundred times better than the Church. And we're not in competition with that.

We want to present Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and have the

Spirit draw them to know, love, and serve the living, risen, and reigning

Lord Jesus Christ. And that's our goal, and I'm just very thankful for our congregation that that's shared amongst all our members.

Amen. And, in fact, I don't want to give anybody the wrong impression that I am some legalist.

I actually have a very eclectic taste in music, but I believe that there are certain forms of music that don't belong in the worship service, even some forms of Christian music that I listen to outside of a worship service.

And one of the reasons is, one of the key reasons is, that I think worship should return to what it was intended to be, congregational worship, where the congregation is participating, not merely spectators being entertained.

Yeah, that's a very important point, Chris, because I get that question a lot from, because we're largely first -generation

Christians, people enjoy a variety of music, people enjoy a variety of Christian music, and it's like, well, why can't we have that?

And it's like, well, in worship, God is the audience, not us. And we do things corporately, as you mentioned, congregational worship, and while that may be perfectly appropriate for a mid -week

Bible study, it may be perfectly appropriate for at a retreat, you know, around the campfire with other brothers and sisters in Christ, it's not for worship.

And those distinctions, I think, are important, but they're also helpful to point out to people.

You're right, we're not condemning any kind of music, we're just saying that there are certain things that are appropriate for corporate worship that wouldn't be, that are not appropriate for corporate worship that might be perfectly appropriate in other scenarios.

By the way, a listener in Alabama, Ted, has a correction for you, he says, it was the

Cheers Bar where everybody knows your name, not the Friends Bar. Thank you,

Chris. Thank you, Ted. The name of the television program was Friends, I think, but you're right, the bar was

Cheers. Oh, no, no, no, those were two different shows. The Cheers... Oh, is that right? Oh, you're right!

You can see I am not a product of... Cheers was in Massachusetts, and Friends was in New York City.

Ah, well, there you go. I'm not a product of popular culture, pardon my mistake. Well, actually,

I do like the aspect of everybody knowing my name at the church where I'm a member.

And even like to hear people yell out, Chris, when I walk in, just like they did with Norm. But... Well, you know, we're family, and we should act like it, right?

That's right. So, yeah. By the way, I don't know if I ever asked you this question before, it's kind of off -topic.

But I know that she was a part of the fellowship where you were a member before you planted

Messiah's Reformed Fellowship. Were you familiar with Marge Snyder Hegeman?

Yes, very much so. Yes, Marge actually provided the music at my wedding to my late wife in 1991.

Well, she's got a beautiful voice. But I think we still have some of her music around.

Her and her husband have moved to Oregon from New York, where I originally met her.

But her husband, Dave, is quite talented as well. We're a book on Christian art.

But, yeah, Marge is just a beautiful voice, beautiful guitarist.

Yeah, I have very fond memories of that wedding celebration with her performing. And I also happen to know that...

Oh, wow, I forgot her first name. Who played

Deborah on Everybody Loves Raymond. Yeah, Patty Heaton.

Patty Heaton, that's right. I don't know how I missed that. She was a member of that church as well.

Unfortunately, she has returned to Catholicism. I didn't know that. But she is at least maintaining a very pro -life stance, which is good to hear.

Yeah, I didn't know her. I think she just attended for a period of time and never became a member.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that was after I went to Michigan, I think. Okay, well, let me give our listeners our email address if you have any questions for Pastor Paul Murphy on Reformed Evangelism and then also we are going to be entering into Why We Must Cancel, Cancel Culture.

Remember, you need to have those repetitions of the word cancel or it will mean the opposite of what

I intended. You need two cancels in there. Why We Need to Cancel, Cancel Culture.

If you have a question, the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

You can give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I could readily understand if you are a member or even a pastor in New York City, you being a bit nervous about perhaps agreeing with our guest on certain things that may have you run out of town on a rail, as the saying goes.

Perhaps you just don't want to identify yourself yet in regard to beliefs that you are developing that are in contradiction to your own church or denomination, or perhaps you want to criticize what we are saying today.

That's completely acceptable on my show. We will grant your request to remain anonymous, but otherwise if it's just a general question about theology, about scripture, pastoral concerns, anything like that, if it's general in nature, not personal, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

One thing that is very unique about your situation when we are speaking of reformed evangelism is how to maintain that, perpetuate that, and be faithful to it in New York City in the 21st century.

New York City actually has a wonderful heritage of reformed theology and evangelism from days past.

In fact, the First Baptist Church of New York City in Manhattan was at one time a reformed

Baptist church. In fact, everybody listening should get a hold of the book.

I believe it's out of print, but it's still available on Amazon and some bookstores.

A pastor in New York, The Life and Times of Spencer Cohn, he was the pastor in the 19th century of the

First Baptist Church of New York City, and a phenomenal book that should be made into a movie as far as I'm concerned.

This man's life was so fascinating. There are others as well, of course, who were in their day giants of the reformed faith, but what is unique about the challenges you face about being faithfully reformed in evangelism in a place like Manhattan, which is arguably the most liberal and diverse as far as race and ethnicity and nationality and religion, mission field on the planet

Earth? Before I answer that,

Chris, I'd commend another book, and I'm sure you're familiar with it. It's The Power of Prayer.

Oh yeah, the Banner of Truth book about the revival. About the 1857 revival on Fulton Street, and that's where we started.

And Ground Zero, of course, is at the west end of Fulton Street. And Lamphere was the man who started a prayer meeting in the

Dutch Reformed Church on Fulton Street, and it was a noontime businessman's prayer meeting that turned into a revival that spread throughout the city, throughout the state, and across the country as well.

So that also was a fascinating book about evangelism and revival in New York City.

And tragically, the Marble Collegiate churches that are affiliated with what is now the

RCA, the Reformed Church of America, many of them have completely gone into apostasy, sadly.

Yeah, yeah. They're the oldest churches in New York City. They are the Dutch Reformed churches all over the city.

Of course, you have Church Avenue in Brooklyn, which is still the first Dutch Reformed church in Brooklyn.

It's located on Church Avenue and Flatbush Avenue. It's still there. It's still with the doors open. But you're absolutely right about your evaluation of their current state.

I don't want to upset my friend, Pastor YC Tan in Newhart Park too much. He is in the RCA, and he is a faithful Calvinist and conservative

Bible -believing Christian. Yeah, yeah. They're still awesome, thankfully. But in answer to your question,

I think maybe to just start, it gets back to what we talked about last time when

I was on your show, Chris. You know, what makes evangelism Reformed, as apart from just broadly evangelical, is having a message -centered versus a method -centered approach, and a

God -centered versus a man -centered approach. And by the way, brother, I've rambled so much that we are actually at the point where we have to go to our first break.

So we'll pick up right where you left off about God -centered versus man -centered. Oh, yeah.

If anybody would like to join us, remember our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Pastor Paul Murphy.

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Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is

Pastor Paul Murphy of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City. We are going to be discussing or continuing to discuss

Reformed evangelism, and then we'll later get into the subject of why we must cancel, cancel culture.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And before I revisit or return, I should say, to our discussion with Pastor Paul, I have a quick prayer request from a sponsor of this program whose four -year -old granddaughter has scalded herself with boiling water and has second -degree burns on 20 percent of her body.

She's being rushed to a burn center as we speak. So please pray for this little girl and that minimal damage has occurred from these burns and that the doctors know exactly what to do to restore her to as perfect health as possible.

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But Paul, you were, right before the break, contrasting between God -centered worship and man -centered, if you could.

Yeah, just, we talked about this the last time I was on, Chris, and I'm not going to elaborate much more on what was said then, but your question was how to conduct

Reformed Evangelism in a city as liberal as New York. And I think, at least in an initial response to your question,

I would say focusing on those things, maintaining a message -centered gospel, not falling prey to tricks and gimmicks and various methods.

You know, I think it was Charles Finney who said, conversion is the result of the right use of means, and that's resulted in Evangelicalism.

Utilizing a variety of methods, as if somehow if you found the right formula, it would result in conversion.

So we want to stay message -centered, we want to stay focused on the Word of Christ, and in crucified is the message risen and reigning on high.

And then, you know, God -centered versus man -centered. We want to stay focused on the goal as disciples, converting the whole person, balance the benefits of the gospel with the demands of the gospel.

You know, we're not selling fire insurance, we're making disciples, and discipleship comes with demands.

But in addition to that, I think, in answer to your question, how to do

Reformed Evangelism in a city as liberal as New York is, just do it. I find that many churches are not doing it, and I think it's critical to be out there and actually doing

Evangelism amongst the people. We have a group that varies in size in our congregation that goes out to Union Square Park every

Saturday and just initiates conversations with people, and try to meet people, and meet them where they're at, and strike up conversations, get to the point of communicating the gospel representing a liberal church.

I think another thing besides that is, you would be surprised,

I haven't been surprised, I should say, by how many people in a city like New York have had some exposure and familiarity with Christianity or the faith, the

Bible. That's not to say that everybody's a Christian, but, you know, we usually think of liberal cities like New York and modern cities like New York as populated by postmodern people with no concept of absolute truth, and, you know, imbibing all kinds of contemporary foreign ideologies.

I have not found that to be the majority of people that we have come in contact with in our 18 years here.

Come into contact with a large number of immigrants to the city, and I'll talk about them in a moment, and a large number of people that have some familiarity with the

Bible. When you talk to them about Jesus, or you talk to them about the Bible, it's not something entirely foreign to them that they have never heard of, and that gives you at least a place to start.

Now, I want to be clear here. I've asked people, you know, what is the gospel, and they say, oh,

I know the gospel. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. No. In fact, that is what a very dear

Roman Catholic friend of mine that I've known going back to the 1980s, right after my conversion, in fact, he interviewed me in a

Catholic newspaper where he worked as a journalist to have me give my testimony of why

I left the Catholic Church, and he was brave enough to have this article featuring formerly

Roman Catholic converts into Evangelical Christianity to feature their interviews in an article in his magazine, in his newspaper.

And every time we have this discussion on ecumenism, because I tell him that I'm not,

I remind him that I'm not an ecumenist with Roman Catholics, even though I believe some are truly

Christian because they believe in the true gospel as opposed to Rome's dogmatic gospel as defined by Trent, which is a false gospel.

And I have explained this to him hundreds of times, and he always says,

I believe in the gospel just like you do, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I'm like, that's not what I'm talking about.

Right. Yeah, exactly. But my point is that when you're talking to someone like that, at least you have some place to start.

They're not post -moderns, they're not the product of secular education thoroughly so that they have no knowledge where Christianity has been eradicated from their education and their consciousness.

So those are the majority of people I run into. Or you run into immigrant populations, which they're now on your home turf.

You have a real opportunity to introduce them to something, and they are at somewhat of a liability socially because they are immigrants after all.

And I find them often much more receptive to talking about the faith and talking about the gospel, even than people that have been raised in the

Church, or the Catholic Church, or a nominal Protestant church. And that's kind of the tragedy,

I think, of contemporary America, is people that have been raised in this country with some sort of Christian atmosphere, environment, social environment, you know, they've had the gospel.

They know, I'm not talking about a saving knowledge of the gospel, but they know

Christianity, it's not foreign to them. They don't want it, they've rejected it. Whereas an immigrant population, it's entirely new to them, and you have a great advantage with them.

Think of New York City, for example. You can fulfill the Great Commission of making disciples of all nations without ever leaving

New York City. In one zip code in Queens, there are over a hundred languages in Queens, just in one zip code.

There's an enormous opportunity here. As I mentioned in the introductions of the show, we have 28 nationalities in our congregation.

You can fulfill the Great Commission without ever leaving New York, and that is a great opportunity that we seek to take advantage of here in New York.

Now, in dealing with people that are thoroughly secular, thoroughly postmodern, that's a great difficulty, because they're not operating with the same categories that you are operating with.

I recently read a book, How Not to Be Secular, by James K .A. Smith, that I don't always agree with, but this book was very interesting.

He was talking about how contemporary secularists and secular people do not operate with the same categories that we do.

So when we talk to people about, you know, if you were to die today, where would you go? The famous diagnostic question.

That's not something they're concerned about. It's not something they think about. Or when you talk about God and sin and death and the necessity of being born again, these are not categories that operate in their vocabulary or in their consciousness.

That is a very difficult population to reach. And that's where I think you have to engage in somewhat of an apologetic intercourse with people like that, and you have to be sharp in your apologetic skills, which is kind of a handmaiden of evangelism, isn't it?

So you need some of that as well, but I find that that is not the majority of the people that I have interacted with over the course of 18 years.

So in answer to your question, how to do reform evangelism in a liberal city like New York City, that's somewhat of my experience, and I think the big thing is just get out there and do it.

Start meeting people where you live, work, study, and play.

It doesn't have to be necessarily formal, going out in a group on the street.

We do that. It doesn't have to be handing out tracts. We do that. It doesn't have to be knocking on doors.

We do that. But I think just engaging people where you live, work, study, and play, developing those relationships.

And a big important thing, Chris, I think, an aspect of what makes evangelism reformed is you're connected to the

Church. People are not out there autonomously, as autonomous evangelists, just out there doing their own thing.

You want to stay connected to the Church. You want to be an emissary from the Church with the goal of bringing people into the

Church. And that's something which has largely been lost in contemporary North American evangelicalism as well.

A lot of people that I know that are engaged in evangelism, and thank God for their zeal, and thank

God for their commitment to getting the Gospel out there, are not doing it as members of the

Church. They're just out there doing it. Well, what about if they run into somebody and they say, well, what must

I do to be saved? Well, you can tell them, hopefully, you can tell them the message of how to be saved.

But what's next? Well, what's next is baptism into a local Christian Church. If that's not the goal, then what are we doing?

And I think that's something very important. If somebody is not baptized into a local

Christian Church, they ought not to be thought of or considered a Christian, in my mind.

That's essential. That's the Great Commission, right? Go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So if the Church is not the beginning and the end of evangelism, something is wrong.

It is in need of correction. Amen. In fact, my very dear friend of many years,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, whenever he has participated or led outdoor evangelism at different places, like some big

Mormon event, or anywhere else for that matter, when people have approached him and asked, hey, can

I help you pass out your tracts and do other things with you in this evangelistic effort, he will ask them the first thing.

He will ask them, where are you a member? What church do you belong to? And if the person says, oh,

I don't belong to a church, I'm not a member anywhere, he will say, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to decline your offer because I don't want anybody representing my ministry that is not a member, in good standing, of a truly biblical church.

I can't tell you how many people I've run into over the course of my 35 years as a Christian in the metropolitan area that are not connected to a

Christian church, are not a member of a Christian church, and do not attend regularly a Christian church.

That's just sad. And frankly, I think that's largely a product of faulty evangelism.

Somehow, you can be converted, you can become a

Christian and never join yourself to the church. It's very sad.

Yes, one of the great tragedies of the Billy Graham Crusades and other large crusade ministries is that they do not direct people to biblically sound churches, and unfortunately, if you volunteer to be a counselor, as they call them, at a

Billy Graham Crusade, at least the ones that used to take place while he was living, you were instructed that you were forbidden to refer anyone that came to you for counseling, and what that meant was if they came forward for the so -called altar call, and you were to have them recite the sinner's prayer and that kind of thing, another unbiblical thing that has its roots in Finney, as you mentioned before, but the instructors, or the counselors,

I should say, who were to lead these people into a prayer of faith were forbidden to say,

I know of an excellent church where you live, I've got to tell you where it is. You could not do that. In fact, you were supposed to direct them right back where they came from.

If they were Catholic, they go back to a Catholic church. If they were in a liberal Methodist church, they go back there as a dog returning to its own vomit.

Totally travesty, and in fact, I want to pick up on that because I want you to clarify something lest people get the wrong idea that you are endorsing sacerdotalism or something.

We'll have you clarify that when we come back because we have to go to our midway break right now. Folks, please be patient with us because this is the longer than normal break in the show when

Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break because they are required of the

FCC to localize this program and all of their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

So they air their own public service announcements and other local things while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

And even when you can't patronize them, which would mean buying their products, using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch ministries, whenever you can't do that, please at least reach out to these advertisers and say thank you for sponsoring

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We depend upon the finances that come through their advertising to exist. So please keep our advertisers as happy as possible by responding to those ads.

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Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Paul Murphy. Back together again, yeah.

Back together again, yeah. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John McArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the

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This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. Was your business shut down during the

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In Psalm 139, verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

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But I do want to thank the many of you in our audience who have been purchasing books regularly from them and who have been making sure to tell them we heard about solid -ground -books .com

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as a result of hearing this program. Thank you so much. You'll never know how much I am in your debt to this side of glory.

And before we return to Pastor Murphy on Reformed Evangelism and why we must cancel, cancel culture,

I just have a few announcements to make. I am looking forward to my interview this

Thursday with Nathan Busenitz, who is on the faculty of the Master's Seminary in Sun Valley, California, the seminary established by John MacArthur.

Nathan is going to be addressing his book Long Before Luther, which is addressing the fact that Luther did not invent the glorious truths of the

Reformation that Protestants hold to as cherished and treasured teachings.

These were truths that have come and still come from the Scriptures themselves and were even taught in the patristic period by the

Church Fathers and other eras of Christianity before the

Reformation as well, which were, of course, championed by the Reformation when the

Church of Rome had almost succeeded in crushing these teachings into oblivion. But we want to make sure that you mark your calendar for this

Thursday for Nathan Busenitz's participation on the show. He's also one of the speakers at the upcoming

G3 conference where I'll be manning an exhibitor's booth. Also, we have Carl Truman joining us on Monday, April 5th.

He's going to be talking about his new book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the

Road to Sexual Revolution. And we've got many other guests actually every day this month that I'm sure you'll love to hear their interviews.

I'd like to highlight David Engelsma, Professor Emeritus at Protestant Reform Seminary, who will be addressing his new two -volume commentary on the

Belgic Confession. We heard Paul Murphy before in describing Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City, describing them as a church that adheres to the three forms of unity, which would include the

Belgic Confession. And David Engelsma will be addressing that very important Christian confession this coming

April the 8th. And I hope that you mark your calendar for that and just keep listening every day as often as you can to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

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I don't want to be the cause of bills being unpaid and your family falling into further crisis financially.

Those two things are commands of Scripture to provide for your church and family. To provide for my radio show is not obviously a command of Scripture.

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click Support, then click Donate Now. Also, if you are not a member of a local

Bible -believing church, Pastor Murphy was just discussing the importance of church membership and the tragedy that it is not even a part of much of modern evangelicalism and its approach to evangelism, as far as the importance of submitting yourself to local elders in the church and being an active part and blessing to a local congregation.

Well, if you are in the situation where you can't find a local Bible -believing church, I don't care where on the planet

Earth you live, I may be able to help you. I have lists, very extensive lists, of biblically faithful churches all over the planet, including

Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City, and I have helped many people in all parts of the globe find churches, sometimes right around the corner from where they live.

They didn't even know these churches existed, or sometimes they passed it by every day but didn't know that they were biblically faithful churches.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest,

Paul Murphy, on Reformed Evangelism and also on how or why we must cancel or cancel culture.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. And before we have you continue that thread that you were on, that thought,

Pastor Paul, we do have a listener in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very faithful and actual generous supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, and he says,

Greetings, brothers. Does your fellowship offer anything like English classes with the possibility of evangelizing immigrants,

I have heard? This is an excellent way to reach those in our country with the gospel from other nations.

Yes. Thank you for asking. We have had a ministry in the past.

COVID times have really disrupted a lot of our outreach, but we have used a curriculum in the past based on the

Gospel of Mark, which promotes grammar and vocabulary to non -English speakers.

So, yes, it's an ESL ministry, English as a Second Language ministry. There would be some rudimentary familiarity with the

English language necessary to participate in a class, but that's what it focuses on. And the first sentence that people say in the first class is, this is the good news of Jesus Christ according to Mark.

And it provides excellent opportunities to talk about Jesus, to talk about the faith, to talk about the gospel, what is the good news of Jesus Christ, who is

Jesus Christ. And of course, you're just going through the gospel according to Mark. So it's all right there.

And it's excellent for all people on a spectrum from rank unbelief to nominal

Christians. When you get to things like the Lord's Prayer, for example, we've had people in class that could rattle that off in Spanish in a matter of seconds.

And then when you ask them, what does it mean, they don't know. Well, you have a brilliant teaching opportunity there to talk about that.

So, yes, it's an excellent way to conduct evangelism, particularly to the immigrant population that I mentioned earlier on our shores, a good way to reach them, and people really appreciate it.

So, yes, absolutely. Yes, I actually know people on the mission field who are in countries where missionary efforts, efforts to actually convert people of other religions to Christ is outlawed, forbidden.

And they have, they go under the guise, and it's not something fake, they actually do teach people

English, but they also evangelize them, which is something that they, according to the ungodly rule of the certain nations where these missionaries are, is against the law, but they must obey

Christ rather than men. So, thank you, Grady. It's an excellent tool.

I'd commend it to anyone, absolutely. Amen, thank you, Grady. We'll pick up where you left off there,

Paul, about... Sure, you wanted to assure all our listeners that I was not a sacerdotimist talking about unless somebody was baptized into a local

Christian church they should not be considered a Christian. Just a couple of words on that. Of course, baptism doesn't say we don't believe in baptismal regeneration any more than we believe in decisional regeneration.

However, the Great Commission says we ought to make disciples, that's the constitutive imperative of the

Great Commission, is make disciples. And how we make disciples is by going, by baptizing, and by teaching.

So baptism is an essential ingredient to the Great Commission, and it's also important, as Brother Chris just emphasized, to have church membership.

If you look at, for example, 1 Corinthians chapter 12 and verse 13, it says, for in one spirit we were all baptized into one body.

Two things there. One, baptism is the rite of initiation into the Christian church.

So, consistent with the Great Commission. Secondly, it's not baptism into the ether or into nothing or into nowhere.

It's baptism into the body. That's the way that the Bible talks about baptism as a rite of initiation.

So, while we don't believe in baptismal regeneration, we are not sacerdotalists, we do believe in the importance and the necessity of baptism and church membership.

And you do so because the scriptures hold that area very seriously. Yeah, yeah.

And are there exceptions? Of course, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized, but, you know, the exception proves the rule.

If we look at the rest of the Bible, that's certainly what is normal. Yeah, and you would, the reason why one should hesitate calling someone or identify them or embracing them as a fellow

Christian if they're not a member of a church, if they haven't been baptized, is more a reaction and a rightful, godly, bibliocentric and spirit -filled reaction to such a person, because that would be an evidence that there is a serious problem spiritually going on.

Now, of course, we don't have the mind of God. We don't know with perfection somebody's heart and mind.

There could be, as there are many people who have been so burned by being members of a church, they might have been, they might have even been physically molested by a pastor or someone in the church.

They might have been under the tyranny of a legalist church or even a member of an oppressive cult.

That doesn't give them the liberty of license not to become a member of a Bible -believing church, but it is a reason that we can make sure that we are treating such an individual with compassion and patience.

Am I not right? Oh, absolutely, of course. You know, you want to be sensitive to what people have undergone, and all those things are certainly true, and I've encountered many of them.

But ordinarily, Chris, when I run into people that, you know, oh yeah, I'm a

Christian, I said a prayer or I was baptized or something, but they don't belong to a church, they don't attend a church.

Ordinarily, people like that have not only not been baptized, not only not become a member of a church, they've not really repented either in terms of their lifestyle.

So many of their lifestyles are bringing disrepute upon the name of Christ, and yet they go around unfortunately deceived into thinking that they're a

Christian. And there's been no change, no evident repentance. They're still living in immorality or various forms of sensuality or substance abuse or something.

So, of course, you always have to have pastoral sensitivity with everybody and probing questions to get where they're at, and you can't know their hearts.

But yeah, unfortunately, there's too many that don't fall in that category.

And we have an anonymous questioner who is going to lead us right into the second topic.

This anonymous listener says, I have a very close friend who is a pastor in New York City who is biblically faithful, and he has told me he can hardly count on one hand the number of Reformed churches as well as other evangelical churches that have not caved in to the woke culture, the

Black Lives Matter movement, the critical race theory movement, and the cancel culture movement.

Is this your experience as well, or is my friend overly pessimistic or just unaware of more churches that do exist that have not caved in to these heresies?

Well, I would answer that twofold, I think. I think what he states positively can be affirmed is that there are not many

Reformed churches in New York City within the five boroughs.

Now, they might be in some way confessionally attached, at least giving lip service to the confessions, but not truly

Reformed. Sure. Well, you would be able to say that about Marble Collegiate that you mentioned previously.

They would say that they believe the Belgium Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, the Countess of Dort, but they only believe it as a historical document.

They don't believe it as something they profess as their faith today. But I think, secondly, yeah,

I don't know about how many churches have bought into the woke culture, critical race theory,

Black Lives Matter, although I think, certainly, there are quite a few that are following along those lines, very sadly.

So, I'm not thoroughly familiar with all of them, but it's caused disruption in the

Southern Baptist Convention, it's caused disruption in the PCA. I would be surprised to see that it's not caused disruption in the

Evangelical Church in New York City also. So, yeah, it does.

If I could just try to connect the two, evangelism and canceling canceled culture, you know, it was

John Stott who said that evangelism is the major instrument of social change. So the

Gospel changes people and changed people can change society. So evangelism is the major instrument of social change.

It is the offensive front of the

Christian faith. We, you know, typically as Reformed churches, we emphasize apologetics, as you mentioned with Greg Bonson, defending the faith, protecting the faith, and we absolutely have to do that,

I want to get to that in a moment. But we don't have an equally balanced emphasis on offensively getting the word out there, preaching the

Gospel, converting people, getting them into, adding them to the

Church. So that's the offensive side. We need to do that. The defensive side is canceling canceled culture, is that canceled culture is a rock that threatened the

Christian Church, and that's the defensive. So, you know, you mentioned

Carl Truman a moment ago, he wrote this, and I think it's relevant here,

Chris, with respect to critical race theory, is that all of these things have a religious component, and we need to recognize that all of life is religion, and when people are espousing

Black Lives Matter, these things, they're religious ideologies that are being set forth opposed to the

Christian faith. Carl Truman said this, all embracing and transformative views have a religious quality, and he says critical race theory is no exception.

It has a creedal language and liturgy with orthodox words, white privilege, systemic racism.

It has prescribed actions, raising the fist, taking the knee. To deviate from the forms is to deviate from the faith.

Certain words are heretical, or we might say blasphemous. Non -racist, for example, are all lives matter.

The slogan silence is violence is a potent rhetorical weapon. To fail to participate in the liturgy is to reject the anti -racism the liturgy purports to represent, something only a racist would do.

So what he's getting at is that critical race theory is religious in nature, and it's a religion that is in opposition to the

Christian religion. So that highlights the necessity of a defensive posture, which raises the importance of canceling cancel culture.

This is something that Christians cannot be naive about. We cannot retreat to a holy huddle.

We cannot think that if we just confine the faith to the four walls of the church, we'll be safe and they'll leave us alone.

That's what they keep telling us, right? Oh, as long as you want to talk about Jesus, do so in the four walls of your church, but don't bring it into the public square.

Don't impose your morality on me. Don't impose your religious beliefs on me. But they have a religion as well.

And we are not safe just staying within the four walls of the church, because these ideologies, in their religious character, are out to do nothing less than exterminate the

Christian religion and Christians. We will not be tolerated. That's what cancel culture ultimately has in mind, is silence all opposition.

So, offensively, we need to be doing evangelism, getting the word out there, engaging also in its handmaiden apologetics, being able to defend the faith against these ideologies.

But defensively, we have to realize that these things are out for our extermination.

And if we don't cancel, cancel culture. It's going to be us that's canceled. If you could be more descriptive and detailed in a definition of cancel culture.

Well, cancel culture, I think, is any opposition to the narrative or the ideology prevalent in either secularism or in things like critical race theory,

Black Lives Matter, other areas. If you oppose that, you must be silenced.

You may not be allowed to express your opposition.

You may not be allowed to freely express your view.

This is no longer a quote -unquote neutral sphere where ideas can be exchanged.

It's either our way or no way, not the highway, as if somehow you're going to be dismissed.

It's going to be no way. You're just not going to be allowed. So there is no more free speech.

And sadly, I don't hear many people in the legislative sphere, neither

Republican nor Democrat, crying out, this is a denial of free speech.

We need to maintain First Amendment rights. There's nobody saying that. Or I should say, there are very few people saying that.

Just out of curiosity, have you heard the response, because I haven't, maybe it's just because I haven't looked hard enough or really researched this at all in this particular question

I'm going to ask, but have you heard of the notoriously liberal

ACLU's response to this? Because the ACLU has always considered itself as champions for freedom of speech, even if they found the person or group's speech to be utterly despicable.

They were notorious, as you may recall, for defending the rights of the American Nazi Party to march in Skokie, Illinois in the,

I believe it was the 1980s. Yeah, I remember that. And when there was so many survivors of the

Holocaust, probably a higher percentage than anywhere in the United States living there. And yet the

ACLU, not believing in Nazism, still defended this horrific, satanic group in their freedom of speech.

Now, what are they saying about the left's attack on the more sane expressions of free speech, even if they disagree with them?

I have not heard them speak out. I think they have been conspicuously silent.

I have heard where they have sided with Christians in one or two issues that I can't recall off the top of my head,

Chris. But I think they have been conspicuously silent on these matters, as have

Republicans and Democrats by and large. So, we cannot be naive about what is going on here.

These are not just things that are out there and don't affect us. These are things that are looking to frankly exterminate us, because we are standing in the way of their ideological goals.

And, you know, a couple of things just in terms of, you know, defensively, how ought we to be thinking as Christians, and what ought we to be doing as Christians to address this?

And I'm more than interested in any ideas that our listeners might have, so please, you know, email or contact

Chris to participate in this discussion. But I think the least we can do is our people need to be aware of this.

They cannot be allowed to be naive. That doesn't mean that we need to turn the pulpit into a bully pulpit of political expression.

But we do need to address this as a matter of a world and life view.

If Jesus Christ is the Lord of all of life, then it's certainly pertinent to address these things.

And they may need to be the topic of something besides a sermon, a Sunday school class, or a midweek

Bible study or something to address this. Secondly, I think that it's essential to protect the

Church, to catechize our children, particularly.

I'm 67 years old. I think this is not going to impact me before I die, although who knows?

Things are so rapidly progressing, and I use that in numerous ways.

But our children, they're going to be profoundly impacted by this. So we need to be sure that our children know what they believe and why they believe it.

And the practice of catechetical instruction is critical. In our

Church, we have catechism preaching, which there may be some differences about and we could discuss, but we preach through the doctrinal documents of the

Church, the Heidelberg Catechism. I'm just finishing a series on the Nicene Creed for that specific purpose.

We have first -generation Christians, and they need to have the building blocks of the Christian faith and the foundations of the

Christian faith under their feet rock -solid. And that goes double for our children.

I think also we need to protect the Church legally. I'll give you an example.

When the Obergefell decision came down from the Supreme Court, all but legalizing homosexual unions years ago, we invited the

Alliance Defending Freedom group in to help us. Excellent.

Help us. How should we deal with this as a

Church? Because surely we're going to be assaulted, particularly in New York City. And they gave us excellent advice on amending our bylaws and incorporating certain statements about what we would use the building to be allowed for, allowed use, what wouldn't be permitted use, what we would allow our clergy to do, what we wouldn't do, what we were in favor of, and some statements about social issues, what we were opposed to.

And those are now in our bylaws. So we have legal protection. Somebody can't come in, like Jack the

Baker out in Colorado, and sue us because we're not going to perform homosexual unions.

We're prohibited to do that by our bylaws. So that was very helpful. So those are just some ideas.

We need to advance in the workplace. We need to advance measures to prohibit employers from firing workers for exercising their free speech rights, provide legal redress for employees if they're illegally terminated or otherwise harassed.

We need to end mandatory race theory in public and private sectors, legislatively affirm an individual's freedom of conscience from religious and secular indoctrination.

Those are things that need to happen in the workplace. And I can tell you, New York City, that's more than an uphill battle.

That is extremely difficult to try to get that done in the corridors of corporate culture.

Because they are so woke. But there are other places where it can be done. Think of unions. I was a union member all my life until I went to seminary 35, 40 years ago.

You know, most union workers would, although they don't share our faith, share our values and our virtues by and large, you know, with respect to these issues at least.

So I think there are measures that can be taken, Chris, to cancel cancel culture.

And I think we also need to prepare our people for persecution.

I think increasingly, I was just talking to another pastor about this yesterday, and we were talking about, you know, 1

Peter, suffering under the cross. And I think that we are increasingly becoming comparable to what we read about in the

New Testament. We're increasingly identifying with the first century

Christian church undergoing persecution. And, you know, persecution and judgment are racing towards us.

So we better be prepared for it. And I, you know, I tell our congregation that all the time.

You know, be prepared for this. It's coming. And of course, with the Equality Act and some other things that are being discussed in our country, it's here.

It's here. Jack the Baker in Colorado, numerous instances of cancel culture already impacting

Christians and the church around the country. So we need to cancel, cancel culture.

We need to be talking about how to do that. We need to be strategizing how to do that as Christians self -consciously and be prepared for persecution.

What's that going to be like? How should we endure the persecution that's coming down the road?

In fact, you have just obliterated... I'm sorry. I'm talking a lot.

So I'll stop. You've just obliterated the slanderous stereotype of post -millennialists who think that post -millennialism teaches that things are just continually on a straight line pointing upward.

You're going to get better and better and better and better and better and better. Obviously, what you just described is not a reflection of that.

Right. I am a... I certainly... I lean post -millennial. But I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.

And that's... I think any post -millennialist would affirm that. Yes. We have to go to our final break right now.

And if you want to send in a question, do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnson at gmail .com

ChrisArnson at gmail .com Don't go away. We'll be right back with Paul Murphy right after these messages.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Voddie Balcom, Joel Beeky, and James White.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back, and Pastor Paul Murphy, I'd like you to take several minutes of uninterrupted time before we take any listener question to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about these topics.

I would like people to be... I would like people to prepare, to program their hearts with the love of Jesus Christ for them as sinners saved by grace alone.

I would like to have people program their hearts to channel that love with the love of Christ for sinners like themselves who are in need of salvation.

That they would see them with Jesus' eyes, and that they would... they would consider them with Jesus' heart, to have them come to know

Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And I would like to connect that to the cancel culture.

I think it's entirely consistent with loving Jesus Christ, that we defend

His honor, and that we defend His name, and that we protect His people from the onslaughts of secular culture and ideologies that are raised against the knowledge of God.

This is what the Apostle tells us in 2 Corinthians chapter 10, what he highlights for us, that we are engaged in a war.

We are engaged in a war that we cannot be naive about. It is not only a war against the world, the flesh, and the devil, to be sure, our three enemies.

But in 2 Corinthians 10, 3 and following, Paul says, Though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh.

For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey

Christ. We have the Word of God, which is living and active. We have the

Holy Spirit of God in us as a supernatural person and power to...

God has not given us the spirit of fear. He has given us His Holy Spirit, a spirit of love and a sound mind.

And we have the wherewithal to engage these forces and to do so wisely, to do so circumspectly, but to do so boldly and in confidence, not fearing man, but doing so in the fear of God, with the hope and the prayer that God would use our faithfulness to bring glory to Him and bring benefit to His people.

And we ought to be encouraged to do that, and not shrink back. Well, we have

Ronald in eastern Suffolk County who asks, What counsel as a pastor do you have for us on how to more lovingly approach those who are in our families and in our neighborhoods and other places where we have some kind of influence or presence who are opposed to us so vehemently politically?

It's very hard for me to restrain anger and fury and frustration when speaking about these people because we are not talking necessarily about only the differences fiscally between a conservative or a libertarian and a democrat when it comes to how the government chooses to spend our money.

We are entering into areas that are so satanic like murder and even the sexual mutilation of children in the name of transgenderism that it is difficult not to explode or to demonstrate utter contempt for the people that are promoting this.

How do we do this as Christians? I think we have to remember where we came from, brother.

I once was lost and now I'm found. I once was blind but now

I see. God looked down in mercy and pity on me when

I was lost, when I was blind, when I had my fist raised in abject rebellion against him and rescued me.

And we ought to have that same posture towards people. That doesn't mean we're not righteously angry but it does mean that we have to have pity on people for their blindness and their lostness.

Amen. And I want to remind our listeners that if you want more information on Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City, go to m -e -r -f as in fellowship n -y -c as in newyorkcity .org

m as in Messiah's e -r -f as in fellowship n -y -c .org

Thank you so much, Pastor Murphy, for being such a superb guest as I knew you would be. I look forward to your frequent return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

I want to thank all of our listeners, especially those who took the time to write in questions. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater