February 24, 2021 Show with Fred Butler on “Royal Deceptions: Exposing the KING JAMES ONLY Conspiracies Against God’s Word” (Part 2)

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 24th day of February, 2021, and I'm thrilled to have back on the program for part two of a discussion we began several weeks ago,

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Fred Butler. He is coordinator and director of Volunteer Ministries for Grace To You, the media ministry of Dr.

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John MacArthur, and today we are addressing part two of a discussion on Fred's book,

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Royal Deceptions, Exposing the King James Only Conspiracies Against God's Word, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Fred Butler.

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Oh, I'm absolutely thrilled to be here again, wonderful. It's my pleasure, brother, and if anybody has any questions that they would like to ask

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Fred about King James Onlyism and the specific approach he took to that subject, our email address is

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say your church or your pastor holds to a

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King James Only position. In fact, obviously if your pastor holds to it, then your church definitely does, and you don't, and you don't want to draw attention to the fact that you are departing from that view or opposing your pastor and church on that view.

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Well, we would understand that you would want to remain anonymous. Perhaps you are a pastor yourself, and I know from personal experience,

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I have quite a number of acquaintances and also very close friends who are

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King James Only advocates, but I also know that there would perhaps be more freedom of thought and being a

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Berean about certain issues amongst my fundamentalist Baptist friends if they weren't so fearful of how their friends and colleagues in ministry and other like -minded churches would react to the news that perhaps they're no longer

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King James Only. Many of them know that they would be certainly disfellowshipped, perhaps from some of their very closest friends, and who knows what else might come about through that kind of news.

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Missionaries who are departing from King James Onlyism might be totally cut off from their support and all kinds of other things.

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So we understand that there are reasons why you would want to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question on history, on the

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King James Bible, then please at least give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. That's chrisarmson at gmail .com. Let's just give a summarized overview of what we've already discussed on this issue.

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I know that you wanted to make this book perhaps a more user -friendly book to the common man, because when anybody thinks of a critique of King James Onlyism, they immediately, probably, most likely, have their minds transported to the book written by my dear friend

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, The King James Only Controversy. Some might have believed that there need be no other book on this issue, because he very thoroughly did cover this issue.

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But you wanted to be more of a user -friendly or take more of a user -friendly approach, am

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I right? Yeah, that's correct. I had a friend, sort of my immediate boss at work, who was engaged in just writing one of our dearest supporters, a long -time donor of Grace to You, and this lady had come across,

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I believe it was David Daniels' work, he's now director of the

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Jack Schick Publications out here since Schick's passing away, and he had written a book on King James Onlyism, and she read it and was confused by it and was concerned and had questions, and my boss basically said, hey, do you have any material on this topic that we could give to her?

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And I immediately was like, what she just said, I thought of James White's book, but for someone who's probably in their 70s and has never really tackled the topic of textual criticism and Bible translations and all of the things that pertain to that,

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I was thinking that might be a little hard for her at this point. So I thought of my articles

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I had written on various subjects regarding King James Onlyism, because I came out of that background as a young Christian in the

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Lord, and I thought, you know, something we could probably, maybe

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I could put these in some sort of written manuscript and make it available to people who might have questions, and that written manuscript turned into a book manuscript, and I finally was able to launch it on Amazon Books as a self -published title to just be used for people who just have general questions, kind of a surface level take on that topic and how to answer some of the main and common objections and comments that King James Onlyists have against modern versions, for instance, against Bible translations other than the

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King James. And that's my goal. I'm just wanting it to be a useful tool for people to kind of get their feet wet on that topic, and then if they want to explore it more and be able to get in, once they get sort of their mind wrapped around the topic at hand and sort of the main subjects, then they can go and dig into stuff like James's book, and there's some other excellent books on Bible textual criticism that I would recommend as well.

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I list those in the back of my book, as a matter of fact. And also, just to clarify some things,

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I don't want people to be unnecessarily apprehensive about buying

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Dr. White's book, The King James Only Controversy, because they think it's far too lofty and ethereal for eggheads and ivory towers.

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A moron like me understood basically what Dr. White wrote in that book, and I remember thoroughly enjoying it and being blessed by it and being further equipped to defend other modern, or should

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I say, defend modern translations. Not all, of course. I mean, the

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Living Bible and some other modern translations are considered by many evangelicals who have studied the issue and who know the original languages, they consider some of these new translations, which are paraphrases very often, to be horrendous.

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And of course, you have more and more sliding into leftism with the changes in certain words, so not to offend egalitarians and so on.

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But, so, why don't you start also with a summary of the hardest, the most difficult challenges.

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In fact, they may even be the most difficult challenges you faced as a former believer in King James Onlyism when you were departing it.

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What were some of the last vestments, remnants of King James Onlyism that you were hanging onto by a fingernail, perhaps, before letting go, because they were amongst the most difficult areas for you to overcome in defense of King James Onlyism?

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I would probably say, I'm trying to think through my list here.

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I would probably say first and foremost, the idea of just where do we get our

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Bibles from with regards to translation, how would you say, with the texts that were given to us over the course of history through the

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Church. Because one of the big talking points of King James Onlyism is that you have these various manuscripts from all over the world, and God has seen fit to only sort of bless one little family of manuscripts that's usually defined as either the

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Byzantine manuscript or majority text, and eventually gave us the Texas Receptus from which the

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King James was translated from, or at least the New Testament portion of the King James was translated from.

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And I think for me, when I was sort of wrestling through that, that was an area that I wasn't really familiar with, and so the arguments they would make in regards to how we had those texts transmitted to us were really compelling.

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Because I had a high view of Scripture, I saw in those one group of manuscripts from which the modern versions were allegedly translated from, what

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I perceived as serious changes and serious touching of various Christian doctrines and that sort of thing, and I had to put those little problems in a proper historical context.

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And that took me a while to kind of work through that material. I think a lot of people, if you have a high view of God and His Word, when you think that there's some sort of smite against God's Word, or you see some sort of change or alteration that's going to affect the text, well, you tend to bristle at that.

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And I just saw there that this was something that was really a challenge for me to kind of work through and to think through, to get my hand around.

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And on top of that, they also have this idea that, well, the reason why you have those changes, the reason why you have these little differences in the text and all that throughout time is because heretical men have somehow snuck in unawares, and they have been able to get a hold of these copies, and they change them, and they put their heresies onto it, so that when you pick up the

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Bible and you start to read it, if you're not aware of these changes, and you just sort of, you know, start reading through a modern version, well, it's going to totally give you a different picture of who

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Jesus is, what the Christian faith is all about, it's going to teach you a

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Roman Catholic view of salvation, for instance, and all of those sort of things.

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And I believe that when I really, the delight came on, and I would be amiss not to really thank

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James, who I mentioned before, I mean, because he was helpful in that, to sort of put all of that stuff into a proper historical context, that there weren't these men, these heretics that have come in and had these secret groups of, you know, working together in a conspiracy to introduce heresies and all that sort of thing into the text, and that the

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Word of God that we can hold in our hands is trustworthy and it's reliable, and that it's something that we as Christians can put our hope and our trust in.

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It's not just contained in one Elizabethan -era Old English Bible translation that's the only one that you're allowed to read that really contains the

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Word of God. I think, and believe now, that God has given us the entire...

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You can see His Word preserved through all of these various translations, and like you were mentioning before, there are obviously some changes, but we can identify those things, and we can note those intentional altercations or alterations where you have changing the egalitarian stuff, or in some cases trying to maybe water down homosexuality or whatever it might be.

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We can note those things and we see it because God has seen fit to preserve His Word throughout a whole panoply of various translations, and just the way that He's given us

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His text over the time of history throughout the Christian Church.

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Does that make sense? I hope I'm not rambling there with that explanation. Yes. And also, there are many arguments that King James Onlyists use against other translations and against those who use them that could very easily be turned back on themselves.

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Some of it is bizarre, like the charge that other modern, or should

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I say other translations, or modern translations, would be more likely to lead one to a

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Roman Catholic understanding of the Gospel. They have to admit, in fact, those

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King James Onlyists that are more knowledgeable on how they arrived at the King James Bible, they admit, even in their documentaries and their videos and things, that this came out, the

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Textus Receptus upon which the King James Only, or the King James Bible is based, came in part from the

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Latin Vulgate. Is that not right? Yeah, well, as I understand the transmission of this, specifically the

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Textus Receptus, that was Erasmus's key work that he was putting together for his publisher, because there was at the time another group of scholars working in Spain that were trying to put together their own

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Greek New Testament, and I think they were wanting to put together even a Hebrew text as well.

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This was all during the Renaissance, and a lot of this stuff, all of these ancient manuscripts were beginning to be uncovered and reintroduced to the

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Western world, and they were getting a hold of these, and they were beginning to learn the languages and translate them, and Erasmus was sort of talked into, hey, you need to put together a

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Greek New Testament, and his particular translation, well, not even translation, it was an apparatus that he created from which people translated.

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It wasn't really based upon, but maybe 10 key Greek texts that he was able to use, and I think a lot of them probably even came from Roman Catholic hands, as it were, that he was able to kind of put together a working apparatus that then people could then begin to translate into other languages.

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That's what Tyndale used to give us his first English translation of the

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New Testament, a lot of which is in the King James. That's why I would even say, hey, read the

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King James, because it reflects a lot of Tyndale's work. But yeah, they had, there were these, you couldn't really get away from the

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Roman Catholic Church. I mean, they, you know, everybody was Roman Catholic at the time, and they're going to have their hands on these manuscripts, and to claim that they were trying to, you know, keep some kind of Catholic doctrine in the

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Bible so that you could, you know, unwittingly still be Catholic and not be believing the Gospel or whatever,

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I mean, that's just kind of, I mean, it's just silly. It's not really, that's one of the conspiracies that I try to kind of point out in my book.

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It is just untenable. It's just not workable at all. And a pure King James -onliest would have to come to the conclusion that the

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Church of Jesus Christ did not possess an authentic Bible for all the centuries prior to 1611.

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Exactly. In a way, it is sort of a Restorationist view of Scripture, if you're familiar with it, just like groups like the

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Mormons, even groups, I'm trying to think of all the various, all of the

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American cults that sort of popped up in the 1800s, all worked from this idea that for some reason the

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Gospel or the Bible was lost to time, and it had disappeared off the planet, and God was unable to keep it, and nothing, you know, that was available was all corrupted manuscripts and Bibles and translations and everything, and it was this one key person, or this one special group that God saw fit to restore

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His Gospel to the world. And there's lots of groups that believe that kind of stuff, and the idea that God somehow was not able to preserve

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His Word, and that it wasn't really available in its purest form until King James came along in the 1600s, it really is a mark against trusting the

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Lord. I mean, are you saying God was without a witness for 1 ,600 years?

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He didn't have any revelation to His people? Well, we know that that's not true, because Christians had

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His Word, and we're reading it, and we're translating it into other languages, and we're preserving those manuscripts and texts that eventually were used to, you know, put together the

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King James. And so it's just a...it just gets into all kinds of strange fantasies that I think leads people away from the truth.

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That's why my byline and my title of my book is just addressing these conspiracies against God's Word, rather than helping

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God, rather than giving us a robust defense of Scriptures.

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I see King James -onlyism as being a problem and bringing all kinds of doubt upon God's Word, not the other way around.

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Yeah, and I think that we also have to do a bit more repetition from the last show by making it clear, just so people don't get unnecessarily offended and angry and tune us out.

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This is not, as the claim is constantly made, and it can be very frustrating, in fact

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I find great similarities between the way Roman Catholics react to a

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Protestant critique of Roman Catholic Marian dogma, as King James -onlyists react to a critique of Christian dogma.

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They will both say, you'll have the Roman Catholics saying, how dare you attack the

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Blessed Virgin? How dare you attack Our Lady? How dare you attack the

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Mother of Jesus? And the King James -onlyists will say, how dare you attack the King James Bible?

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It's as if we are the ones on the attack, we are the ones setting out to victory.

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And vilify everyone who uses the King James Bible and the Bible itself, the version itself, when the opposite is true.

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The King James -onlyists have vilified every other translation, even the

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New King James Version on many occasions, and have vilified everyone who uses those other translations.

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Yeah, that's absolutely right, and like I mentioned on our first interview,

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I'm not against the King James. In fact, I would even encourage people to read the

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King James. I think Christians should have a copy of that Bible in their library, at least spend a year, when they do their reading through the

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Bible in a year, to read through that translation, because it is what really shaped our

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English language. It is a little difficult, because it is the old Elizabethan style of English, but it really reflects the

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Reformers, the Calvinists who had their hand in putting together the

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Geneva Bible, and that many of the King James translators sort of utilized when they were putting together the

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King James, as well as William Tyndale's translation into English, and that is our heritage as believers, and we should be familiar with it.

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The problem is when you make that translation, the final translation, that if you don't read anything else, or if you read anything else and don't read it alone, well then somehow you're slipping into heresy.

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And that just puts a burden on people spiritually and in their walk with the

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Lord that they just cannot bear, because it's just going to be difficult to read the

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Scriptures for some people. Let me give you an example, if we have time. I don't know if you're coming up to a commercial break, but...

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We'll probably have time for your one example, and then have to go to the break. Well, I have a friend of mine whose brother is a

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King James onlist, and she was asking me about my book, and I was telling her about this, and I said, boy, he would probably enjoy reading it, and she says, well,

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I don't know if he would like it or not, he may not be able to understand it. And I'm like, well, why is that? Well, because he speaks

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Korean as his first language. And I said, what? You mean to tell me that he is reading a

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Korean translation of the King James in order to be a King James onlist?

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She said, yeah. Well, he's been told all of his... He got saved and got out of his liberal

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Methodism and got into some kind of King James only group in Korea, of all places, that's telling him unless you're reading our translation of the

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King James, well, you don't have a Bible. Do you understand how absurd that is? Oh, yeah.

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In fact, there are some King James onlists, and we're going to make it clear after the break, much more clear, because there's all different kinds, and there are some that are even close friends of mine that I would have on the show without hesitation.

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So there's different varieties, but there are some who are on such an extreme of the lunatic fringe that they would even say that that man that you were referring to is a heretic because they would say, you cannot be saved unless you first learn

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English and then hear and understand the Bible being preached from the King James Bible.

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Exactly. That was Sam Gibbs' position, if you're familiar with him. He's a King James onlist. It's crazy.

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I mean, you really want to put people into that kind of spiritual bondage when you're trying to give them the living

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Word of God that is the hope of their salvation. We have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us, our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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We'll be right back with Fred Butler and more on royal deceptions after these messages. Hello, my name is

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Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

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Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

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The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

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Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

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today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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And don't forget, folks, a donation of $35 or more to the

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King James Bible in 1611 that is a part of the collection of the Historical Bible Society.

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It's a really beautiful book, as I said, 44 pages, 9x12 inches in dimension, and it's a great icebreaker to have on your coffee table when you invite friends over, especially if they are not believers.

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Go to historicalbiblesociety .org, historicalbiblesociety .org to find out more.

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If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Fred Butler. He is on staff at Grace to You, the media ministry of world -renowned

40:30

Bible teacher, author, and pastor John MacArthur, and we are discussing

40:35

Fred's very controversial book, but book that needs to be in the hands of everyone that has friends, family, or loved ones who are involved in King James -onlyism, or perhaps in the hands of King James -onlyists themselves,

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Royal Deceptions, exposing the King James -only conspiracies against God's Word.

40:58

And the email address, if you have any questions, is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

41:06

We do have a listener who has a question for you. He happens to be a very faithful supporter, financially, of Iron Sherpins Iron Radio, as well as a faithful listener.

41:19

His name is Lou from Sharpsburg, Georgia, and he asks, is the new

41:24

King James Version a more accurate translation of the Bible than the

41:30

King James Version? I don't know if you could say it's necessarily more accurate.

41:38

It's not that the King James itself wasn't particularly, you know, it was accurate enough.

41:45

I mean, it tells us what we need to do. The difference with the new King James is they try to modernize a lot of the language that would have been found in the 1611 earlier edition of the original

41:59

King James. So they're trying to sort of modernize the Vs and the

42:04

Vows and the various Elizabethan English to make it more readable and easier to read.

42:13

It's a very fine translation. My wife uses that translation. I switched to the

42:19

NASB, and she was like, no, I want my new King James. Of course, the original

42:24

MacArthur Study Bible was printed in the new King James, so she's kind of stuck with that. Well, since the publishers of the

42:31

New American Standard Bible sponsor this show, I'm very delighted that Dr. MacArthur switched over.

42:37

Yes, we're delighted, too. I think he's got his Study Bible in the new

42:42

King James, the NASB, the ESV, and I want to say there is an NIV version of it as well, though that one's not as well known.

42:53

But his thinking was like, hey, it's the most popular translation, I think, at the time in India, in English.

43:00

And so he's like, let's get our study notes out there and teach people how to read the text right. That was kind of his thinking about when he wanted to do that.

43:08

And of course, if you are a true King James only -ist, the new

43:15

King James version, well, you might as well be reading the Koran or the Book of Mormon.

43:21

Yeah, exactly. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but it's not far from the truth with some

43:29

King James only -ists. Yeah, they're bothered by the fact that they took changes, and I think that when they updated the

43:39

New King James, they even put marginal notes in there that note all of the various textual variants that might be in the text.

43:48

The King James did that as well. If you see the original copy of the King James, the translators put marginal notes and talked about the various other readings in the text, including cross -references back to the

44:02

Apocrypha, because the Apocrypha was originally included with the first edition of the

44:07

King James, and it was published with it for several editions after that, until maybe the mid -1600s or so,

44:15

I can't remember the date on that. Yeah, if you're reading the

44:20

New King James, you've got a good Bible. He should be confident in that.

44:27

Well, Lou, make sure that you give us your full mailing address in Sharpsburg, Georgia, because you have won a free copy of the book we are addressing,

44:37

Royal Deceptions, exposing the King James -only conspiracies against God's Word, compliments of Fred Butler, our guest today, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, and that website is cvbbs .com.

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They will be the ones actually shipping the book out to you at no charge to you or to us.

45:07

So thank you very much, cvbbs .com, for always shipping out our winners in the

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio audience the free books and Bibles that they win as a result of sending in questions.

45:25

Going back to some of the more difficult hurdles to overcome, there is a lot of sentimentality that is attached to the

45:39

King James Version, and for instance, there is a very controversial subject that involves the prick -a -pay caught in adultery, also known as the woman caught in adultery, and there are

45:56

King James -onlyists who will say to those using modern translations or those that defend modern translations, because even many of the modern translations include that, if not all of them, but with footnote, those that defend the modern translations, like Dr.

46:17

James R. White, would say that this didn't appear in the earliest manuscripts, this story, and when it started to appear, it appeared in different places, so it is viewed by Bible scholars as being suspicious, even though there is nothing in the story that would grate against anything that Christ taught, it wouldn't really grate against anything that regards salvation, forgiveness,

46:51

Pharisaic judgmentalism, the whole nine yards, but that is the kind of thing, the appeal to emotion and sentimentality, because I have heard over and over again from people that that is their favorite biblical story, and yet there is some doubt whether it is even a biblical story at all.

47:16

So the King James -onlyist has an advantage in the area, in many cases, of sentimentality, because those that defend the idea that this story is not a part of the original canon, are viewed as absolute heretics.

47:39

Well, I think sentimentality can be an extremely potent feeling, because it keeps you from wanting to maybe examine the truth, when you look at that story, and I think the other one is the end of Mark, which is the, those are the two larger sections of the

48:04

King James, well, of that particular text, you know, the PR, the Byzantine text, that puts those stories into the actual biblical record.

48:14

But I think what you, the way you kind of overcome that, I think, is you're going to have to address the whole concept of how did we get our

48:22

Bibles, what would it be, I mean, once you break through that understanding of, you're not corrupting

48:31

God's Word if you're questioning something that Christians have questions for all of church history.

48:40

This is not a, this isn't a modern -day problem. It wasn't like they had modern translations, and all of a sudden they're taking out these portions of Scripture.

48:49

Even before the King James was translated, you had Christians that were questioning those insertions because of the very reasons that textual critics questioned them, because they're not found, or are found in different locations and various textual groups.

49:09

You would say, I think, but even in the longer ending of Mark, I think there's like three or four different versions of the longer ending of Mark, one that has like a couple of extra words in it, and maybe a couple of extra verses or something.

49:23

It was attached to the end of Luke, I think, at one time. So when you have those kind of things, you know,

49:29

Christians are going to automatically say, well, is this really something that the

49:35

Apostles, the inspired writers wrote? Or was it something that was added later with, you know, some eager, helpful scribe that was wanting to try to help harmonize the text, or like what they would do with guarding

49:48

Mark, is trying to round out his gospel, because they thought ending it at verse 8, where the ladies will leave the tomb of Jesus afraid and in wonder, you know, that just is too abrupt.

50:01

So there's got to be, maybe we should add on, kind of help God out by adding a little conclusion for Mark.

50:12

They didn't add anything heretical, I mean, like you're saying, there's nothing there that's going to detract from the

50:19

Orthodox Christian faith, but if we're going to be honest with God's Word, if we want to really know what the inspired writers wrote, do we want to include those and understand what he really wrote originally, in light of these passages not being there?

50:38

I think another example is in 1 John 5, 7, and 8, where it talks about, you know, it kind of gives this description of the

50:48

Trinity, that's what King James Onlyus would argue, but again, that particular reading has not been found in any early manuscripts of John's epistle.

50:58

It's just not there. It doesn't mean that you can't defend the Trinity if that particular passage is missing.

51:05

I don't even use that verse whenever I defend the Trinity. I go to other passages and talk to people about the

51:11

Trinity, because God's revealed himself as triune throughout the whole entire Scriptures, if you just go to do a

51:18

Bible study about it. But you have those passages, like what you're saying, that people are attached to. I think

51:24

I was attached to those as well, and I really struggled, okay, am I taking away from God's Word?

51:30

And then when I understood, you know, God, that's not the way he preserved his Word, and no, you're not, you know, sullying his

51:39

Word if you remove those kind of passages, because, you know, it doesn't do anything to take away from the

51:46

Gospel. It doesn't do anything to alter the text in any fashion whatsoever. In the long run, a lot of those passages,

51:54

I think, cause more problems than they do, you know, give good answers.

51:59

Like with Luke, I mean, with the end of Mark, those passages, you know, tend to promote this idea that you can pick up snakes and you can do all of these kind of weird charismatic things that, you know, that's nowhere else taught in Scripture, you know?

52:14

You get those kind of problems. I'm going to ask you a question from a listener and then have you respond to it when we come back from our midway break.

52:26

We have an anonymous listener who says, I've been hearing a lot from people in my church and from close friends that there is an excellent video out there supporting

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King James -only -ism called Tears Among the Wheat. Have you heard about it? Oh boy, yes.

52:46

And we're going to have you respond to that after our midway break.

52:51

And remember, folks, this is the longer than normal break in the show because Grace Life Radio, 98 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the FCC to localize this show and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida, geographically.

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So, therefore, they air their own public service announcements and other local things while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

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So please use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the information as possible provided by our global advertisers so that you can more frequently respond to them and patronize them when possible to keep them happy so that they keep sponsoring this show.

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And when you can't actually patronize them, when you can't purchase anything from them or visit their churches, at least respond to the ads by thanking them for sponsoring

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio. That will go a long way in letting our advertisers know that many people are hearing their ads and appreciating them for keeping

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio on the air. And also, use this time to write down questions for Fred Butler on the

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King James Only controversy. Well, not that very title. That was

54:03

James White's book. But the King James Only conspiracies that exist against God's word and his specific title of his book,

54:12

Fred Butler, that is, is Royal Deceptions, exposing the King James Only conspiracies against God's word.

54:19

And our email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

54:25

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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We'll be right back with Fred Butler after this station break. Was your business shut down during the

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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from Chris Arms on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before we return to our discussion today with Fred Butler, author of Royal Deceptions, Exposing the

01:11:40

King James Only Conspiracies Against God's Word, we just have a couple of announcements to make.

01:11:45

I hope that many of you join me September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

01:11:55

G3 Conference where I will be once again manning an exhibitor's booth.

01:12:00

I am so thrilled that the G3 Conference is sponsoring this radio show once again,

01:12:07

Iron Sharpens Iron. And I am delighted and honored to be connected with such a fine ministry that features nothing but the finest in preachers and teachers at their conferences at September 30th through October 2nd.

01:12:23

And it's being held at a new location, although it's still in Atlanta, Georgia. But they have, as always, an absolutely phenomenal lineup of speakers, including

01:12:34

Stephen Lawson, Paul Washer, John MacArthur, a name that if you don't know it already, you've got to discover and listen to and be blessed by Hensworth Jonas.

01:12:50

Hensworth Jonas is from the East Caribbean. He's a Reformed Baptist, and he has preached at the church where I am a member,

01:12:57

Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. He has blown me out of my socks. He is just a powerful preacher.

01:13:05

He has become one of my favorite preachers. He is there on the roster. Justin Peters, Joel Beakey, Phil Johnson, my dear friend,

01:13:16

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, who has been mentioned many times during today's interview.

01:13:23

A man who I believe is the greatest preacher alive on the planet Earth, Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, and also of African Christian University.

01:13:35

Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker, who host a podcast together, and I know that Daryl was actually a colleague of my guest today,

01:13:44

Frey Butler at Grace to You. And, of course, once again, they are featuring

01:13:49

Voti Baucom. We have to continue to pray for our dear friend

01:13:55

Voti Baucom as he recovers from heart failure. And I have heard good news that things are going well for him as he is recovering in the hospital here in the

01:14:05

United States after leaving Lusaka, Zambia to come here to America for his treatment for this heart failure.

01:14:16

We thank God that we are hearing good news about his recovery. Keep praying for that. We would love to see him preach and teach at the

01:14:26

G3 Conference. For more details on the G3 Conference, you can go to g3conference .com,

01:14:35

g3conference .com, and I hope to see you there this coming

01:14:43

September 30th through October 2nd. And also, folks, if you love

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01:15:17

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01:15:34

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click support, then click click to donate now. And last but not least, if you are not a member of a

01:17:00

Bible -believing church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church, sometimes even right around the corner from where you live, as I've already done with many people spanning the globe in our audience.

01:17:14

So, send me an email if that defines you, that you are a Christian looking for a good, solid

01:17:20

Bible -believing church, or maybe you're not even a Christian yet, but you know you want to find a good, solid Bible -believing church.

01:17:27

Send in an email to me at chrisarmson at gmail .com, and put, I need a church in the subject line.

01:17:33

And you may be looking for a church for a loved one as well, or you may be looking for a church where you're going on vacation.

01:17:39

I may be able to help you. I have lists, very extensive lists, of Biblically faithful churches all over the planet

01:17:44

Earth, and I may be able to help you find one as well. That's chrisarmson at gmail .com, and put,

01:17:50

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

01:17:56

Fred Butler, on his book Royal Deceptions, Exposing the

01:18:01

King James Only Conspiracies Against God's Word. That's chrisarmson at gmail .com, chrisarmson at gmail .com.

01:18:08

And, Fred, you likely remember that before the break, an anonymous listener was wondering if you had ever heard of Chris Pinto's documentary,

01:18:19

Tears Among the Wheat. Apparently, this documentary has been impressing a lot of people in his church and his families and friends.

01:18:30

So, if you could. Oh, well, that is actually the subject of the first appendix in my book.

01:18:38

I did a review of that very documentary that he is referencing. Basically, Tears Among the

01:18:44

Wheat, made by Chris Pinto, who is the, I think he's the host of the radio show

01:18:51

Noise of Thunder or something like that, I can't remember. He put forth this conspiracy theory, this historical revisionist conspiracy theory,

01:19:00

I believe, that claims that the Codex Sinaiticus, and if you are familiar with textual criticism,

01:19:09

Codex Sinaiticus was a complete New Testament, well, I don't know if it was a complete

01:19:14

New Testament, but it was a big portion of the New Testament that was discovered at St.

01:19:21

Catherine's Monastery by Tischendorf back in the 1800s. He was able to obtain that Codex and bring it back to England and Europe, where he was able to publish it and basically declare that it is probably the oldest at that time, full, complete manuscript of the

01:19:45

New Testament that the Christian Church had in possession. After that was published, however, there was an individual by the name of Simonides, Simonides, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, who claimed that he was the one who created the

01:20:03

Sinaiticus, that he was the one, as a young man, had put together his abilities as a calligrapher, and as a practice project, he basically reproduced some old manuscripts he had at a monastery, he'd founded a monastery in Greece, and put together this

01:20:25

Codex. And so he put together a number of editorials that went into the

01:20:31

Guardian newspaper in London, basically renouncing Tischendorf's find, claiming that Tischendorf basically had identified, falsely, a

01:20:42

Codex that really was not, you know, thousands of years old and close to like 400 years after the time of the

01:20:50

Apostles, but it was a recent creation of his. If you dig a little deeper, however, into Simonides' claims, he basically was a document forger and a car artist, and he spent his time early on trying to pass off and sell his documented forgeries and other documents he had created to various collectors around Europe, and in one instance,

01:21:23

Tischendorf, before Tischendorf was able to publish the Sinaiticus, essentially identified some of his forgeries and saved this one document collector a lot of money, because he said, hey, you're going to be buying these fakes if you buy it from this guy.

01:21:40

Simonides, I believe, in a fit of anger and basically, you know, wanting to get back at Tischendorf, published these letters to try to discredit him.

01:21:54

Within that time period when all this was going on, other scholars kind of came to Tischendorf's defense.

01:22:02

They claimed that, you know, this guy is a liar. They showed without a doubt that this

01:22:09

Codex Sinaiticus was what Tischendorf claimed it to be. It was 400 years after the time of Christ, so it was at that time the closest manuscript that we had to the time of the apostles for the

01:22:22

New Testament, and so they just basically discredited

01:22:27

Simonides' claims against Tischendorf. He eventually disappeared in obscurity.

01:22:35

After that time, he left London and disappeared. It is said that he died in Egypt, but there were later reports, maybe 10 years after all that episode took place in the newspapers, that he was found in St.

01:22:52

Petersburg in Russia. So he might have even faked his death, but all of that to say is that the cares among the wheat is basically this claim that the

01:23:04

Sinaiticus is a hoax and that it was ginned up basically by the

01:23:09

Jesuits, and that if it wasn't for this Siamese character coming in and, you know, busting open this hoax, well then, you know, people wouldn't know the truth about Sinaiticus that it's a forged document.

01:23:22

But that is easily debunkable, even within the days of this all taking place.

01:23:27

People exposed the fact that Siamese was a con artist, had tried to sell stuff, take advantage of people monetarily with his various documents he's created.

01:23:41

Pinto's documentary has really taken off in the last 10 years or so, since he's published it and put it out, and it has circulated widely among various obscure blog discussion groups and other

01:23:59

King James -only ministries. And in fact, I'm wanting to say, again, that David Daniels' character, who is now kind of running

01:24:11

Jack Chick's ministry, he wrote a book addressing this whole controversy, claiming that the

01:24:18

Sinaiticus, you know, which is supposed to be the oldest completed New Testament, was a fake. And so he kind of rehashes some of Chris Pinto's arguments.

01:24:27

There is a long paper online, an academic paper that I reference in my book, where the author of this paper kind of shows you, there was some

01:24:38

Russian scholars who identified the Sinaiticus back in the 1700s, when they visited

01:24:45

St. Catharines in Egypt in the 1700s. This is like maybe a hundred years before any of this stuff went down in London.

01:24:53

And if that's the case, well, then that totally discredits

01:24:59

Siamese, because he wasn't even alive then to create a document to begin with.

01:25:07

And so I reference the material that people want to sort of dig a little deeper into that whole thing.

01:25:14

It really is sad that that's another one of those conspiracies that my book tries to address, that is just this historical revisionist view of the

01:25:24

Bible, the New Testament, that comes along and that you have to sort of deal with. And Chris Pinto and other

01:25:31

King James -onlyists like him sort of bank on the fact that a lot of people have never heard of Siamese, or the whole entire controversy and stuff with Tischendorf that took place in the editorial pages of The Guardian in London.

01:25:45

And because you're not aware of that, and they present this information, you're like, wow, I never saw that before.

01:25:51

There must be something, you know, that all these modern virgin guys are trying to hide from me.

01:25:57

Well, no, that's not the truth, because people aren't really talking about it, because that guy was a fraud to begin with, and nobody paid him any mind whenever he first came around and was accusing

01:26:09

Tischendorf of lying. You know, he was discredited immediately because he was basically a fraud.

01:26:15

He had been caught several times trying to pawn off his own documents that he created to get rich people to pay for them.

01:26:26

So that's kind of—I've got a whole chapter, a whole appendix on that, a long review of that documentary if that individual wants to get a hold of my book and give us some more details on that.

01:26:37

Well, I want to thank our anonymous listener for asking, obviously, which turned out to be a great question, because Fred provided a wealth of information on it.

01:26:48

And if you give me, via email, your full name and your mailing address, I assure you that I will not divulge your identity to anyone.

01:26:58

But send me an email with your full name and mailing address, so that CVBBS .com,

01:27:04

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship you out a free copy of Fred's book, Royal Deceptions, Exposing the

01:27:10

King James Only Conspiracies Against God's Word. And we want to thank again

01:27:16

CVBBS .com for shipping out all of our winners, all the books and Bibles and other things they win by submitting questions to our guests.

01:27:25

And we also want to thank Fred Butler again for providing these books free of charge for us.

01:27:31

Why don't you spend a little bit of time—and this is one of those things, it's a Catch -22 situation where you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't kind of a thing.

01:27:49

But tell us about some of the other prominent tools and resources that King James Onlyists use that pastors should be on guard against and on the lookout for.

01:28:10

I know that we may be introducing things that are dangerous to people that might not otherwise know they existed, but at the same time,

01:28:19

I think we who are Calvinists, we who believe in the sovereignty of God, we who believe that Christ's sheep have nothing to fear about being exposed in the arena of ideas and the exchange of ideas.

01:28:41

When we have the truth, we don't have to be paranoid and terrified to hear other ideas and fear of either being sucked away ourselves or having our loved ones in our church sucked away.

01:28:58

Now, obviously, there is a fine line between airing and promoting things that are dangerous, but I think to educate people on issues that we are discussing that are controversial, we have to, in fairness, provide different sides and we have to equip people to be prepared to refute, to debunk or warn against things that exist out there.

01:29:31

I don't know if I'm making any sense, Fred. Am I rambling too much? Yeah, you are. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by tools.

01:29:39

Well, for instance, this is a documentary that Anonymous is doing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, they're going to have stuff like that.

01:29:46

I mean, that's the only documentary that I can think of off the top of my head that's really had an impact on the way people have kind of thought.

01:29:55

I mean, there was a creationist group that I am a part of and I regularly go to their lectures once a month and they had

01:30:06

David Daniels, because he's in the area, I think he's down somewhere in southern L .A.

01:30:12

County somewhere, come up and give a lecture on this. I did not want to go because I didn't want to be a pest and a troublemaker, you know, and I even reached out to the moderator of this group and just said, you know, it may not be wise to have this guy here because he's not presenting you good information.

01:30:30

And they were like, well, we want to hear him out because we don't want to be this council culture kind of approach to things.

01:30:35

You know, I get that, but still, he's going to be giving you bogus information. And I think he was talking on the

01:30:41

Sinaiticus stuff, if I'm not mistaken. But all that says is that they do have just a library of various books and materials that you can find on the

01:30:54

Internet, in their various Christian bookstores, where they're going to try to tell you that if you pick up a modern version, you know, just to allow it to influence you in any kind of devotional fashion, well then somehow you're going to be wrecking your spirituality and messing up your salvation or whatever it is.

01:31:18

You know, I think you're exactly correct. We don't need to be afraid of those controversial issues, and I wish pastors,

01:31:28

Bible teachers, if you really care about your people's souls, that you would, you know, spend the time to invest in learning about these controversial issues.

01:31:40

They need to be equipped to deal with these things. I've never understood the reason why

01:31:49

Christians would want to stay away from something that was controversial or problematic.

01:31:55

I mean, if you know that it might cause some people to get agitated, well that's something that you sort of need to maybe talk about, because maybe you have these people who are thinking wrongly about whatever the topic is.

01:32:09

And I think a lot of times these various topics can be a problem in the sense that, well not a problem, but I mean they just take time to kind of work through, and you have to study, you have to invest in some materials maybe to learn yourself as a

01:32:29

Bible teacher, as a pastor. And, you know, I think the human tendency is to sort of be lazy.

01:32:35

It's not to be, to get out there and do the hard work and address these things and deal with the problems.

01:32:42

You know, I'm not afraid to like jump in if somebody's got some question about some book, and, you know,

01:32:50

I'll go check it out of the library and read it and see if there's, you know, what I think about it.

01:32:56

You know, that takes time and, you know, a little energy to kind of, you know, put into that.

01:33:01

And it would be the same with any kind of Bible translation issue or, you know, dealing with textual criticism or the histories of our scriptures.

01:33:09

You got to, you know, look at what they're saying and go find those resources that are going to, you know, give you good solid ammunition against what they're talking about.

01:33:20

That's kind of what I'm hoping, you know, will be accomplished with my book. At least it'll direct people into an area where they can maybe, okay, well,

01:33:28

I need to shore up my thinking in this area big time, and they can maybe go take a look at some of those resources.

01:33:36

You know, people are out there being taught to and fro with these guys. They're using the Internet. They're using their libraries.

01:33:43

They've got podcasts and YouTube channels now. And if you don't know any better and you're, you know, don't have any, you know, really any kind of grounding in these issues, well, then you can quickly be led astray and be kind of ensnared in this for some time.

01:34:01

That's the way I was when I was a young man in the Lord. And I kind of wished my pastors and my, you know, deacons and the people at my church would have been a little more, you know, proactive and, you know, shutting me down because I think

01:34:18

I was being a nuisance at church because I was getting in everybody's face about King James only -ism. And, you know, they just sort of patted me on the head and, oh, you're kind of going through a phase there, son.

01:34:29

And, well, no, I'm basically disrupting the faith of people here. You know,

01:34:34

I need to be taken down a few notches, but they never did that. But by God's grace, you know, he brought me out of that.

01:34:43

And I've had to go back and kind of talk to people that I maybe have known in my old life and just explain to them why

01:34:50

I was wrong, you know, when I had those opportunities. But, you know, a lot of this is just, you know, we've got to make the effort to identify these things and be prepared to address them.

01:35:00

And that takes time and energy and just some devotion to defending the sheep, as it were.

01:35:12

Well, let me read a question by Ted in Moundville, Alabama.

01:35:22

Ted asks, did the Schofield study system contribute to the popularity of King James version -only -ism thinking in the early 20th century?

01:35:32

I realize that the Schofield reference Bible is available in different translations today, but when it was first released, it was

01:35:39

KJV only. And if you could also let our listeners see who C .I. Schofield was and then answer

01:35:44

Ted's question. Yeah, Schofield, if I understand it correctly, he wasn't necessarily a, you know, being someone who comes from a very vigorous dispensational background, you'd think

01:35:59

I would know more about this. But I understood that he was like an engineer or some kind of, he wasn't necessarily a

01:36:05

Bible scholar. And he put together this, the study notes just to the

01:36:11

Bible so that people could understand the scriptures. I don't recall offhand if he was specifically

01:36:18

King James -only in his perspective.

01:36:23

I know he was dispensational. He had some kind of wonky ideas about the dispensations.

01:36:29

He definitely introduced the gap theory idea in Genesis about, you know, to kind of deal with the millions of years concepts at that time.

01:36:39

But, you know, whether or not he was King James -only, I'm not entirely sure. I think the

01:36:44

King James -only stuff really kind of took off as fundamentalism became much more narrower and focused on, you know, trying to defend

01:36:57

America exceptionalism against the Russians and all that sort of thing in the early 20th century.

01:37:03

And you were seen as being a defender of the faith if you, you know, kept using that translation that was perceived to be the, you know, the translation of America because that's what, you know, everybody used during the time of the

01:37:18

Constitution, colonial America and all that sort of thing. And you had men like Ruckman, Peter Ruckman, and other individuals like him who came along and were prolific writers, which usually you have if you've got someone who's got a very fevered mind and sees conspiracies everywhere, they're going to write prolifically.

01:37:38

And he would publish all these books. It started creating these Bible colleges and these seminaries that were connected to these churches.

01:37:47

And it kind of got root in that fashion. And that's kind of how I understand that it really took off.

01:37:55

And when you have people like Ruckman and then Edward Hill who gave some sort of academic credibility to King James Onlyism, you know, you have those individuals that come along.

01:38:08

Well, then, you know, people are going to, like, stand up and, you know, you might have something to say here. And, you know, he's saying these things about the text and he knows more about this.

01:38:18

And he's referencing these other guys. And it just kind of goes from there.

01:38:23

And that's how, you know, all of the individuals that I've seen kind of come from that vein of, you know, fundamentalism of, you know, that particular branch of Christianity.

01:38:36

They certainly used the Schofield Reference Bible, but I don't remember it because it was promoted a

01:38:43

King James Only perspective. It might have, but, you know, I'm not entirely sure about that.

01:38:50

Well, Ted, make sure we have your full mailing address in Moundville, Alabama so that CVBBS .com,

01:38:57

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship you out a free copy of Fred Butler's book, Royal Deceptions, Exposing the

01:39:04

King James Only Conspiracies Against God's Word. I'm going to read you a question from another anonymous listener and I'm going to have you respond to it when we come back from our final break, which will be a much shorter break.

01:39:18

We have an anonymous listener who says, I am caught in the middle between friends and brothers in Christ who are very close to me over the

01:39:27

Textus Receptus only movement that has arisen in Reformed Baptist circles.

01:39:34

Many are calling it the confessional text in reference to the 1689

01:39:41

London Baptist Confession. How concerned should we be over this movement amongst

01:39:47

Reformed Baptists and is it as dangerous as some of the other forms of King James Onlyism, even though it claims to be a

01:39:54

Textus Receptus only movement, not a King James Only movement? But if you could respond to that when we come back from our final break.

01:40:03

Sure. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:40:08

If you have a question that you'd like to have asked before we go off the air, because we are running out of time, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:40:16

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01:51:49

Welcome back. This is our final segment of today's interview with Fred Butler as we continue to discuss his book,

01:51:57

Royal Deceptions. And if you have a question on King James -onlyism, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:52:04

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com is our email address. Always give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:52:16

USA. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And before the break,

01:52:23

Fred, you may remember that an anonymous listener was asking you about how alarmed we should be over the rise of Textus Receptus -onlyism in Reformed Baptist circles.

01:52:37

Yeah, I'm not sure the... I've known Textus Receptus Reformed churches for a long time, so I don't know how recent, if there's been a resurgence or a surge in those groups kind of coming around.

01:52:53

Mostly primitive Baptist groups tend to be, you know, King James -preferred, if you want to say that, instead of King James -only, but, you know, all of their literature is the

01:53:03

Puritan stuff. I would say there can be something of a red flag there, just to be alert to it.

01:53:12

If they begin to claim that you don't have God's Word, and you don't have a copy of the

01:53:19

Bible, and if you're reading an ESV or an ASV or some other translation other than the

01:53:24

King James, then you've got a corrupted Bible. That can become a problem, because I think that they're going into areas that are not only false, but again, it puts burdens on people that we really shouldn't be loading them down with.

01:53:44

You know, telling a person, you've got to read this particular translation, even though it's difficult for you to read, or you can't understand it as well, or whatever.

01:53:53

And that can definitely become a problem. It's something that you would want to be alert to.

01:54:01

My first question to them is, if they're Texas Receptive -preferred, I mean, what do they use for the

01:54:07

Old Testament? Are they saying that the King James is the confessional

01:54:13

Bible, the confessional translation, or whatever?

01:54:18

Because the TR really is only found in the New Testament. It's not really in the

01:54:24

Old Testament. And there's mixed views on which

01:54:30

Old Testament texts Christians should use as far as a base text to translate from or to read from.

01:54:38

And so they'll just go to the King James, because that's what the King James used. But there were several

01:54:45

Hebrew manuscripts and texts available to the King James. They just particularly chose one version to translate from that's not any different, really, from any other ones that were available at that time.

01:55:00

But there have been newer, more reliable texts found in the

01:55:05

Old Testament than what the King James translators had. And they don't change the meaning of the

01:55:14

Old Testament, really, but it does give us some more insight and precision into what maybe the original writers of Scripture wrote.

01:55:24

And, you know, I just don't see this need to try to, you know, bind people up, say, you're limited to only one translation.

01:55:33

And if you go outside that, well then somehow you're, you know, you're in sin, or you're not going to be spiritually complete, or whatever it might be.

01:55:43

One thing that I've heard with my own ears that bothers me tremendously is

01:55:50

I have heard from advocates of what they have called the confessional text position.

01:55:57

Where they're claiming that anybody who is truly a full subscriptionist to the 1689

01:56:02

London Baptist Confession must be using a translation from the

01:56:09

TR, or they are not truly a full subscriptionist. Well, they would have to use the

01:56:15

King James, because I think that's what those guys used. Unless it was the Geneva Bible, I don't know. I think that they're trying to distance themselves from the lunatic fringe of King James -only -ism that exists in many circumstances.

01:56:29

Not all, because there are Calvinists. There are Calvinists who are King James -only. But in many cases, if not most of the time, they're vehement anti -Calvinists.

01:56:38

And I think that they're trying to put a, you know, they're trying to distance themselves from that. But the thing that bothers me really seriously is

01:56:46

I have heard my dear friend, Dr. James R. White, slandered and maligned by them in public.

01:56:54

They're purposely leaving his name out when they're referring to him, but it is obvious who they are referring to.

01:57:02

And they're calling into question his scholarship. They're calling into question his claims of scholarship.

01:57:10

And I'm not just saying this because he's my buddy, or because I've loved him and known him as a friend for many years, and I've learned much from him.

01:57:18

But they're actually slandering him, because what they're saying about him isn't true. Yeah, but I mean, are they just as scholarly as he would be?

01:57:26

They would claim to be superior. Yeah, James, I mean, knowing him like I do,

01:57:32

I mean, he's pretty hardcore when it comes to the stuff that he researches. I mean, he's not some kind of slouch.

01:57:39

And so for them to claim that about him, I just, I find that rather, you know, all jaw -dropping to think about that.

01:57:49

That makes me question, okay, what gives you, if you're going to slander him like that, how are you better than he is with regards to your scholarship?

01:57:58

Right. Well, if anybody wants to see, I thought it was very good debate that James White was involved in with an advocate of the confessional text position.

01:58:11

I'm going to try to use words that they use, because I don't even know if they use TR only as a phrase to identify themselves, even though it really boils down to that.

01:58:21

And it really boils down to King James onlyism, too. But there is an excellent debate that Dr.

01:58:28

White participated in. And if you go to AOMIN .org, the website of Alpha Omega Ministries, and you look up confessional text, you can look up Textus Receptus only,

01:58:41

TR only, I'm sure it will come up. Yeah, I think I've seen that, and it's very well done, if I remember correctly.

01:58:48

They did a good job. Well, we are out of time, Fred, far too quickly. And I want to make sure that our listeners have your website where you work there at Grace to You Ministries, gty .org.

01:58:59

Go ahead. Yep. gty .org, gty .org. I want to thank you so much for being such a superb guest once again.

01:59:06

I want to thank everybody who listened. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater